[TenTec] Replacement output T/R relays for TT linear amps.

rick@dj0ip.de Rick at DJ0IP.de
Mon Aug 22 08:39:05 EDT 2016 

Hi Paul,

Tnx. I wanted to look up the specs and check that myself but you were faster.

What people don't realize is that relay specs sometime include "bounce time" in the max switching time but sometimes it is listed separate and must be added to that number.

And additionally, the max switch time is generally stated when switching from one state to another.
However, when following CW keying, if a relay is in transit and suddenly a command comes to switch back in the other direction, that transaction takes longer because inertia tends to keep it moving in the direction it is already moving.  In this case it also takes longer than the max specified switch time.

What I'm trying to say is, don't trust the spec numbers entirely.  It is better to have a bit of margin.

Indeed 15 msec is too slow for QSK CW.  If that is the worst case (ever - no matter what) number, then it just barely works with the Orions and OM7.  It used to work with the Eagle but a firmware update worsened the Eagle's switching characteristics and I don't know if that ever got fixed or not.  I don't know the characteristics of all the transceivers on the market so all I can say is, the faster the better.

We need a relay spec'ed at 6 or 7 msec for that job.
Most of the relays I've seen at this speed are spec'ed for about 2A, not 10A.

So unfortunately the Reichelt relay is not a good option here, unless one is an SSB operator.

73 - Rick, DJ0IP
(Nr. Frankfurt, Germany)



-----Original Message-----
From: TenTec [mailto:tentec-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Paul Christensen
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2016 1:43 PM
To: 'Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment'
Subject: Re: [TenTec] Replacement output T/R relays for TT linear amps.

Rick, et. Al...

The HF115F-H-012-1Z relay has a substantial max. make time of 15 msec., whereas the GH1/HC1/RJ1 are rated at 6 msec. maximum and are typically 1-2 msec.  Even if the typical make time of the HF115F is half the max. rating, it's still too slow for several transceivers that cannot delay the RF envelope in a menu setting.  The HF115F is similar to a Tyco/Schrack model.  They're generally fine for switching RF, even at high power, but not high power at QSK switching speeds.  We need to pay attention to the relay's switching speed.  

Paul, W9AC    

-----Original Message-----
From: TenTec [mailto:tentec-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Rick at DJ0IP.de
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2016 5:05 AM
To: 'Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment' <tentec at contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [TenTec] Replacement output T/R relays for TT linear amps.

If this is a BIG issue, I can buy a supply of these and store the with Scott W4PA (Vibroplex/Spiderbeam/INRAD/etc.
I can ship them for free to him.  Then you must only order in TN.

).  I already receive their big catalog anyway.

Gunner, can you tell me exactly which relay it is... page number in catalog or send a direct link please.

73 - Rick, DJ0IP
(Nr. Frankfurt, Germany)



-----Original Message-----
From: TenTec [mailto:tentec-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of gunnerjuulnyholm at me.com
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2016 10:40 AM
To: Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment
Subject: Re: [TenTec] Replacement output T/R relays for TT linear amps.

Hi Jim.

After 15 years of CW usage the K1 antenna relay had to be changed in my Centurion 422. I agree that the Gigavac relay is super, but if you are looking for a direct and cheap replacement, you can get it from the German post order company <www.reichelt.de <http://www.reichelt.de/>>. Their type no. of the relay  is HF115F-H-012-1Z, and the price is € 2,20. The contact rating is 440 Vac and 10 A. Same pin arrangement. - I’m sure that you also can afford a postage of  7 €? Handling time < 24 hours.

You can’t avoid also receiving their inch thick catalogue with 1500 pages of (almost) any electronic component at very affordable prices.

The change in the Centurion was quite simple. The relay is inside a sound insulating box filled with rubber foam around the relay, but it is not difficult to get the old relay out. I couldn’t put in the new relay in precisely the same position, but I don’t hear the relay at all when using CW.

73 and good luck!

Gunner / oz6nf



> On 21 Aug 2016, at 23:11, w3ka at lycos.com wrote:
> 
> Thanks Paul W9AC and Jim K9YC... This sounds like a great way to go.. tnx for the response..
> 73,  Jim W3KA
> 
> 
> 
> On 2016-08-21 20:27, Jim Brown wrote:
> 
>> Agreed on all counts.  Several years ago, an engineer in the Alpha booth told me they use Gigavac. I've been using Gigavac as replacements for my TenTec amps for about ten years. I bought them direct from Gigavac under their ham discount program, and I still have a couple of new spares in my parts stash. I don't remember the last time I had to replace a T/R relay -- I'd guess at least 5-6 years, and my operation is 90% CW. I do NOT usually do QSK with those amps though, because of operating speed, the complexity of keying loops with SO2R operation, and not wanting to have to replace a T/R relay in the middle of a contest.
>> 73, Jim K9YC
>> On Sun,8/21/2016 1:01 PM, Paul Christensen wrote:
>>> Jim,
>>> If you're interested in a premium T/R relay, Gigavac makes the GH-1 
>>> model and is identical to the Kilovac HC-1 and Jennings RJ-1, all of 
>>> which have been time-tested over several decades.
>>> Gigavac sells direct to us:
>>> http://www.gigavac.com/catalog/amateur-radio
>>> Or, check with Alan Bond:
>>> http://www.mgs4u.com/RF-Microwave/vacuum-relays-SPDT.htm
>>> You'll need to specify coil voltage as all three vacuum relays are 
>>> produced with several popular voltage ratings.
>>> Paul, W9AC
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: TenTec [mailto:tentec-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of 
>>> w3ka at lycos.com
>>> Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2016 2:49 PM
>>> To: tentec at contesting.com
>>> Subject: [TenTec] Replacement output T/R relays for TT linear amps.
>>> Greetings to the group..  After years of QSK CW operation, the 
>>> output T/R relays in my TT Centaur 411, and Centurion 422B are in need of replacement.
>>> When requesting parts info from Ten Tec, there have been no replies 
>>> to my emails. Does anyone have a generic source (Mouser or Digi-key 
>>> for example) and part numbers for the appropriate replacement relays?
>>> Tnx..  73, Jim W3KA
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🙏

Gunner
-----------------------------------------------
Gunner Juul-Nyholm              OZ6NF-5P5S
Maglegårds Allé 93 B
DK-2860 Søborg
Danmark

Mobil: +45 4013 0044

www.godepenge.dk
www.positivemoney.org







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