[TenTec] Orion logic issue

Sun Jul 31 12:44:34 EDT 2016

I still like my idea of running some wires off one of the faulty encoder's
lines and bringing them out so you can look at the state of the dc and enc
signals when the rig is powered up and the encoders aren't functioning, and
then look at the same lines after running N4PY to wake it up.  Is there
proper dc getting to the encoders and are the encoder outputs transitioning
properly?

It's also possible that close visible inspection of the encoder board and
it's mounting could reveal an issue.

Barry N1EU

On Sun, Jul 31, 2016 at 4:17 PM, Gary J FollettDukes HiFi <
dukeshifi at comcast.net> wrote:

> I appreciate your remark regarding “waking up”. I  only used that phrase
> to describe what APPEARS to be taking place.
>
> The thing that is confusing is that, once the N4PY software is operated
> once, just to connect and interact with the radio, the radio works fine
> even after I disconnect the N4PY software.
>
> All of the buttons work, the encoders work, even if I disconnect the PC
> from the radio.
>
> It’s kind of like spraying ether down the throat of a carburetor to get an
> old motor to start. Once started, gasoline sustains its operation just fine.
>
> The only thing that causes the failure to reappear is turning the radio
> off, then back on.
>
> That is what I meant by “waking” the radio CPU-to-encoder/button
> communications via the N4PY software.
>
> Ten Tec has already had their hand at this radio. I do not know how
> extensively they looked at it for its previous owner, but they said it
> needed a $600 board, which they no longer had available. They were not
> specific about which board, but I suspect it was the CPU board.
>
> I believe the CPU chip itself is good as it functions to make the radio
> operational once the N4PY software has somehow triggered it. Since I have a
> spare CPU board with a bad CPU, I have SOME hope of locating a bad part
> aside from the CPU on the board with the “good” CPU that I could exchange
> from the known bad board if I could determine the path for this data. That
> is to say, f I could determine what path is being formed by the N4PY
> software to enable button/encoder operation.
>
> I have at my disposal several SMD technicians who are fully capable of
> swapping even the big SMD’s without damage.
>
> I am fairly adept at troubleshooting these things when I can get an idea
> of what the designer had in mind when he or she designed hardware and wrote
> software.
>
> Since I don’t have to pay myself $145/hour to work on this, and since I
> learn something new every time I am successful in fixing something, I look
> upon this effort as a more of a learning experience rather than a profit
> making venture.
>
> Thus, I am more willing spend the time to find the root cause than, say, a
> tech at Ten Tec, who knows full well that the time to find the root cause
> would exceed the dollar value of the radio fairly quickly at $145/hour.
>
> Regards,
>
> Gary
>
> W0DVN
>
> PS: This one is far too nice to end up as a parts mule…
>
>
>
>
> > On Jul 31, 2016, at 10:14 AM, Wes Attaway (N5WA) <
> wesattaway at bellsouth.net> wrote:
> >
> > I don't think the N4PY software is "waking up" anything.  What it is
> doing
> > is bypassing a lot of the functions supplied by the manual encoder and
> > button functions.
> >
> > You have some kind of problem with signals going through the encoders and
> > buttons that appear to not be working.
> >
> > Unless someone can come up with something that you can T-shoot then it
> may
> > be simpler to send the radio in for repairs.
> >
> >   -------------------
> > Wes Attaway (N5WA)
> > (318) 393-3289 - Shreveport, LA
> > Computer/Cellphone Forensics
> > AttawayForensics.com
> >   -------------------
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: TenTec [mailto:tentec-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Gary J
> > FollettDukes HiFi
> > Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2016 10:10 AM
> > To: Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment
> > Subject: Re: [TenTec] Orion logic issue
> >
> > I did reinstall the firmware. I even backloaded to an older version of
> the
> > firmware, just to determine if this made a difference.
> >
> > No joy.
> >
> > It amazes me just how repeatable the failure is, especially the part
> about
> > the lack of encoder function that is immediately restored when I operate
> the
> > radio for just a few actions using N4PY software. I think all I need to
> do
> > is connect, because that action causes the Orion to go to the frequency
> > stored on the C screen. From that point on, everything works.
> >
> > It's like the N4PY "wakes up" the CPU so it can respond to the encoders
> and
> > pushbuttons.
> >
> > The schematic is not terribly helpful in revealing how the keystroke and
> > encoder signals get into the CPU, nor is it clear how the serial data
> from
> > the PC gets there either.
> >
> > Just conjecture at this point, but it seems like some sort of startup
> timer
> > is missing its position in the roll call during the boot sequence and the
> > serial data from the PC substitutes for that by setting some flag.
> >
> > It would be sort of like my having incorrectly entered bootstrap loader
> > startup information in my old Heath H8 computer, data that tells the 8080
> > chip that a keyboard was connected.
> >
> > Of course, the H8 had no error trapping and would have just crashed
> whereas
> > this more sophisticated CPU seems to be able to go on functioning with
> some
> > startup data missing.
> >
> > Has anyone made a printed listing of the startup sequence of the Orion?
> Is
> > there any "open source" listing of the operating firmware?
> >
> > Gary
> >
> > W0DVN
> >
> >
> >> On Jul 31, 2016, at 6:50 AM, Jeff <w4dd09 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Always start by reburning the firmware.  I have solved some  really odd
> >> issues by doing this.
> >>
> >> Jeff, W4DD
> >>
> >> On Jul 31, 2016 7:20 AM, "D. Byron Allen" <n4axdxer at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> It does boot up the latest software version, my problem started with out
> > if
> >> band receive on 40 meters only when I powered the rig up in 40 meters ,
> no
> >> other band was  this problem seen , i used the rig everyday , then didnt
> >> use the rig for a week , and then this last symptoms of no operation on
> > any
> >> band.
> >> Byron / N4AX
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >>> On Jul 30, 2016, at 10:36 PM, Gary J FollettDukes HiFi <
> >> dukeshifi at comcast.net> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Sounds like yours is failing to boot up altogether. That's probably the
> >> CPU.
> >>>
> >>> Mine does not up and does receiver, I get S meter light and can even
> hear
> >> signals. I just can't adjust volume or operate any encoders or buttons
> >> except the VFO'.
> >>>
> >>> Gary
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> On Jul 30, 2016, at 10:20 PM, D. Byron Allen <n4axdxer at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> My Orion I just started this last week , no receive on any band , no
> >> pushbutton control , cant change bands , no s meter signal or s meter
> >> lights.will not key or transmit. Sent to Ten Tec Friday , see what they
> >> tell me next week!
> >>>> Byron / N4AX
> >>>>
> >>>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Jul 30, 2016, at 9:29 PM, Gary J FollettDukes HiFi <
> >> dukeshifi at comcast.net> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I have an Orion 1 with an odd problem. I thought I'd ask if anyone
> had
> >> seen it before prior to an in-depth investigation.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The radio powers up OK, boots up as it should, sometimes it will even
> >> receive. The tuning encoders work fine at this point regardless.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> However, none of the small encoders or pushbuttons work.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> However, if I connect the radio to the computer, start N4PY software,
> >> the radio connects and I can generally make all functions work on the
> > Orion.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> From that point on, all buttons and encoders work fine until I turn
> the
> >> radio off. I replaced the battery so that's not an issue.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Anyone seen this before?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Gary
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> TenTec mailing list
> >>>>> TenTec at contesting.com
> >>>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/tentec
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