[TenTec] Orion VFO Knobs

Wed Aug 8 13:13:55 EDT 2018

The nice things about code are:
 - it doesn't suddenly go End-of-Life
 - it is portable to the next model radio

When I said $2K was my personal limit, I meant just that: "my" limit.
I didn't mean it should be everyone's limit.
But each of us should begin to consider COO and set his/her own limit, based on available funds.

73,
Rick, DJ0IP
(Nr. Frankfurt, Germany)

-----Original Message-----
From: TenTec <tentec-bounces at contesting.com> On Behalf Of MadScientist
Sent: 08 August 2018 18:45
To: Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment <tentec at contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [TenTec] Orion VFO Knobs

Excellent points indeed! Especially the part mentioning "different budgeting after retirement"!

However, it is not a slam dunk that Ten Tec’s new entry (if one is in the offing) would need to be a big buck radio.

The cost to produce an SDR of high performance is a lot lower than the cost to produce an analog radio with similar performance.

Digital stuff is CHEAP CHEAP CHEAP.

Consider 1970, when “digital PLL tuners” became available for TV sets. The manufacturers of TV’s were in pig heaven because the public perceived that the new tuners were a value-add and were willing to pay more for this cool feature, especially since it made laziness cheap (easy remote control). 

In reality, the cost to produce a “digital PLL tuner” was a fraction of the cost to make the old mechanical band switch type tuners. Alignment was easier and reliability went up through the roof. TV makers were more than happy to charge extra for the perceived value and, pitted against lower manufacturing costs, really helped profits (surprise).

Filters are expensive (crystal filters, I mean). DSP filters are free. A true SDR like the IC-7300 likely costs less than an IC-718 (Icom’s cheapest radio) to build!

The added cost of an A2D overflow prevention tuned circuit at the input and perhaps 16 to 18 bit A2D, likely the direction Ten Tec would take, would not cost much more to build than the IC-7300 but would offer the performance edge to make a new SDR TT radio a premium radio without a huge price tag. That’s exactly what the IC-7610 is, an IC-7300 with some of the aforementioned improvements. The only reason the 7610 is so expensive is lack of serious competition, not because it is expensive to build.

Adding any feature you want is equally cheap. All you need is code, a one-time investment, that, once developed, adds not a cent to manufacturing costs of a finished radio. If you offer the radio with open architecture firmware, hams will write your improvements FOR you, and do it for free.

Displays are so cheap now that this part does not add much to the cost of a radio, especially if TT is wise enough to use a generic touch display such as a vending machine touch panel. Factory cost on these is likely less than $20.

Just my humble opinion but I would likely FINALLY purchase a brand new radio if TT were to follow the path I outlined above.

Gary

> On Aug 8, 2018, at 11:17 AM, Barry N1EU <barry.n1eu at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> EXCELLENT points Rick, agreed!
> 
> 73, Barry N1EU
> 
> On Wed, Aug 8, 2018 at 12:12 PM, <Rick at dj0ip.de> wrote:
> 
>> Bob, your email is a great lead into what Rob Sherwood has been 
>> preaching for about 6 or 7 years now:
>> "Consider Cost-of-Ownership (COO) when buying a new radio."
>> 
>> Potentially, every radio, regardless of cost, can become immediately 
>> obsolete if for some reason one of its critical components suddenly 
>> goes End-of-Life.
>> 
>> That is why I personally have opted to never spend more than $2K for 
>> a new radio, regardless of how good it is.
>> Before retirement, it was not such a big deal, but for most of us, 
>> retirement means tighten the belt.
>> 
>> It seems now the destiny for most radios is, keep it as long as 
>> possible, then sell it broken for parts.
>> 
>> With that in mind, about the only two radios that I would even look 
>> at twice are the IC-7300 and TS-590S.
>> 
>> I fear if Ten-Tec ever does bring out a radio, it will be above my 
>> $2K limit.
>> 
>> 73,
>> Rick, DJ0IP
>> (Nr. Frankfurt, Germany)
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: TenTec <tentec-bounces at contesting.com> On Behalf Of Bob McGraw 
>> K4TAX
>> Sent: 08 August 2018 17:59
>> To: tentec at contesting.com
>> Subject: Re: [TenTec] Orion VFO Knobs
>> 
>> In many cases, the original supplier of the parts has discontinued 
>> specific items.  The new ownership has little to nothing to do with 
>> this fact.  Some parts were custom made for Tentec while some were 
>> made in their own tool and die shop or injection molding facility.  
>> Those of course no longer exist. Unless someone builds after market 
>> items, many parts for older radios {those 10 + years} simply won't be available.
>> 
>> This also is the same for many other brands as well.  I've 
>> encountered this fact with my attempted repair of Kenwood, ICOM and 
>> Yaesu products and is one of the reasons I've stopped repairing radios.  No parts available in
>> many cases.   In other instances, the supplier has a minimum of 100 piece
>> order.  If I have to order 100 pieces just to get one or two, this 
>> makes the repair very expensive.  Certainly is not profitable for me.
>> 
>> Folks, we must realize that anything older than the Omni VII {now 10+ 
>> years old}, Eagle {now 8+ years old}  and Argonaut VI {now 6+ years old}
>> are, in many instances, in trouble with regard to parts.    With my former
>> company, having been in charge of repair parts for products that are 
>> no longer in production, we did forecast and purchase inventory to 
>> support products for 7 years. In most cases the supplier or vendor informed us that
>> this was the last production run on these items.   This is inventory that
>> takes space on the shelves, and must be paid for in advance.  Hence we have
>> to spend dollars for parts that may set on the shelf for 7+ years.   The
>> accountants do not like this and the facility manager may say "why do 
>> we need to use this space for obsolete parts"?
>> And in many instances our "forecast" was not sufficiently accurate 
>> and we simply ran out of parts before expected.  In some cases we 
>> were forced to limit purchase quantities to prevent hoarding.
>> 
>> With Tentec and other brands, just be thankful you can get any service
>> work done and parts being available.   Yea yea yea I know you're saying
>> your 30 year old radio still works and I can get it repaired.   In general
>> that is correct.........until one of those unique parts fail.     The Orion
>> series has several unique parts and many to most of the PC board assemblies
>> are no long available.    If either fails, look for a "parts only radio"
>> and hope the part is good that you need.
>> 
>> This is no different than looking for a brake controller for 
>> anti-lock brakes from a junker at the auto junk yard.  Oh, the Dealer has them for
>> $650.   That's 1/2 the value of the vehicle.    Radios are much the same
>> way.
>> 
>> 
>> 73
>> 
>> Bob, K4TAX
>> 
>> 
>> On 8/8/2018 10:18 AM, David J. Ross wrote:
>>> Sorry to hear that. I bought the parts for my Paragon just last Nov.  
>>> I
>> had heard that service parts were drying up under the new ownership.
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: TenTec <tentec-bounces at contesting.com> On Behalf Of km4bsham 
>>> via TenTec
>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 8, 2018 11:10 AM
>>> To: Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment <tentec at contesting.com>
>>> Cc: km4bsham <km4bsham at aol.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [TenTec] Orion VFO Knobs
>>> 
>>> Naturally "out of stock,  try back at a later date ". Thanks
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
>>> -------- Original message --------From: "David J. Ross" <
>> rossdj at verizon.net> Date: 8/7/18  6:32 PM  (GMT-05:00) To: 
>> 'Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment' <tentec at contesting.com> Subject: 
>> Re: [TenTec] Orion VFO Knobs I purchased one directly from TenTec but 
>> there was a $25 minimum order. I needed the plastic panel end ears so the ring was a price padder.
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: TenTec <tentec-bounces at contesting.com> On Behalf Of Dave 
>>> Beghtel via TenTec
>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 7, 2018 6:04 PM
>>> To: TenTec at contesting.com
>>> Cc: km4bsham at aol.com
>>> Subject: [TenTec] Orion VFO Knobs
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Is there any source for the newer vfo knobs with the solid rubber ring?
>>> Thanks, Dave KM4BS _______________________________________________
>>> TenTec mailing list
>>> TenTec at contesting.com
>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/tentec
>>> 
>>> 
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>> 
>> 
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