Topband: insulated vs:bare radial wires

[Tod -ID]

 I guess I have the wrong idea about how the radials of a vertical work. For
some reason I thought that they operated as a 'screen' that kept the return
currents out of the ground enough so that the "ground" losses were less. 

If my flawed view of this happened to be true, then the more radials the
better [although at some point the incremental difference becomes difficult
to measure]. It might also mean that insulated is better than non-insulated
since there would be no leakage current between the ground and the wire.
That 'leakage' current probably is so trivial that no one notices it and
the practical result is that there is no significant electrical difference
between insulated and non-insulated.


Since I am speculating here, if I am lucky someone will either confirm my
conjecture is correct or advise me about how things really work.

I know that there are at least two guys on this reflector who, I think, know
pretty well how the radials work.

Tod, K0TO

> -----Original Message-----
> From: topband-bounces at contesting.com 
> [mailto:topband-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Gene Smar
> Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 4:38 PM
> To: topband at contesting.com
> Subject: Re: Topband: insulated vs:bare radial wires
> 
> Herb :
> 
>      I'm not sure you'd ever be able to prove effectiveness 
> one way or another (to ground or not to ground the radials' 
> far ends.)  When I installed my radials in 1998, I used large 
> nails to hold them into the ground as you did, but did not 
> connect them electrically to the radial wires.  My thoughts 
> were that the nails or even short rods weren't long enough to 
> be effective in gathering up RF currents that might have 
> penetrated (skin depth, ya know) the earth, so I just ran the 
> wires where I could and cut them off.
> 
>      Anyone with BCB engineering experience out there who can 
> answer authoritatively?
> 
> 
> 73 de
> Gene Smar  AD3F
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Herb Schoenbohm" <herbs at surfvi.com>
> To: "Gene Smar" <ersmar at verizon.net>
> Cc: "topband reflector" <topband at contesting.com>
> Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 1:10 PM
> Subject: Re: Topband: insulated vs:bare radial wires
> 
> 
> 
> >>
> 
> > I use insulated wire radials which after a few months 
> disappear into the 
> > grass....I tack down the wires with large spikes along the 
> way with a 
> > single turn of the insulated wire. Yet  I have always 
> wondered if there is 
> > any benefit in making an actual earth connection to the end 
> of the radial 
> > with a short rod (whatever the radial length  may be) or 
> should that be 
> > avoided with ROG installations as it would seem to mitigate 
> the capacitor 
> > effect.  But if we are talking about current distribution would not 
> > earthing the ends be a benefit?
> >
> > Herb Schoenbohm, KV4FZ
> > 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 160 meters is a serious band, it should be treated with 
> respect. - TF4M