Topband: Staples

W6osp at aol.com W6osp at aol.com
Wed Apr 7 11:53:25 PDT 2010


DX Engineering also has bio degradable staples which I have started using  
because my radials are in my lawn. By the time they degrade the wire is well 
 into the lawn.
 
Bruce
 
 
In a message dated 4/7/2010 8:31:36 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
topband-request at contesting.com writes:

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Today's Topics:

1. Re:  Staples (W5UN)
2. Receiver Rankings (Charlie & Vivian  Vaughan)
3. deterioration of RG-6 (Larry  Pasman)
4. Re: deterioration of RG-6 (Herb  Schoenbohm)
5. Re: Staples (w8uvz)
6. Re:  deterioration of RG-6 (Guy Olinger K2AV)
7. Re: deterioration  of RG-6 (Robin)
8. Coax for receive (Price  Smith)
9. Re: deterioration of RG-6 (Missouri Guy)
10. DOUBLE DIAMOND (Mr. and Mrs.  Magoo)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message:  1
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2010 18:42:40 +0000
From: W5UN  <w5un at wt.net>
Subject: Re: Topband: Staples
To:  Topband at contesting.com
Message-ID:  <20100406114242.C7E9D154 at dm0201.mta.everyone.net>
Content-Type:  text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

Barb-less fence wire from  McCoys Home building supply works very well 
for this. Buy a quarter mile  roll, and make thousands of staples any 
length you need.

Dave,  W5UN



------------------------------

Message: 2
Date:  Tue, 6 Apr 2010 15:58:42 -0400
From: "Charlie & Vivian Vaughan"  <vcm4 at bellsouth.net>
Subject: Topband: Receiver Rankings
To:  <topband at contesting.com>
Message-ID:  <5025117B5F4A45C5837FD80B19CC86B8 at yourze8cxvr8tt>
Content-Type:  text/plain;   charset="us-ascii"

The subjective receiver  rankings were interesting.  I would suggest a look
at the following  link for another view of receiver rankings.  The contrast
is somewhat  interesting.

http://www.sherweng.com/table.html



Charlie   K4UWH





------------------------------

Message:  3
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2010 16:11:58 -0400
From: "Larry Pasman"  <lrpmbt at comcast.net>
Subject: Topband: deterioration of RG-6
To:  <topband at contesting.com>
Message-ID:  <99AE49952E0C4FDFB75B1093B47D9607 at ownerPC>
Content-Type:  text/plain;   charset="us-ascii"

Any coax or feedline is  likely to get moisture in it. Aluminum turns to a
white powder and copper  turns black. What is happening is temperature
changes from day to night.  Each time temperature cools down the coax acts
like a big straw and sucks  in moisture and can do so for several feet. If
the run is down hill water  can make it all the way to the shack.  If you 
are
making a splice and  cannot seal it very well is not use electrical tape.
Tape will only hold  moisture in and not let it dry. Using "F" connectors 
and
a double female  will work if out in the open to allow drying. Simply mount
it on a small  post above ground and put a flap of some sort over it. Taping
over  connectors will only allow it to get wet and not  dry.



------------------------------

Message: 4
Date:  Tue, 06 Apr 2010 16:40:23 -0400
From: Herb Schoenbohm  <herbs at vitelcom.net>
Subject: Re: Topband: deterioration of  RG-6
To: n4zr at contesting.com
Cc: Topband at contesting.com
Message-ID:  <4BBB9C37.1050204 at vitelcom.net>
Content-Type: text/plain;  charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed



Pete Smith N4ZR  wrote:
> I feed my 160m receiving antenna with about 300 feet of RG-6,  which 
> supplies power to an amplifier at the antenna.  Recently,  I started 
> seeing an high-resistance short across the coax (~30-50  ohms).  I took a 
> junction apart and discovered evidence of  current flowing across the 
> double-female, as wellas some water in the  connector.  I changed it out, 
> and also changed both connectors  on the cable, and in the process 
> discovered that the braid and the  first foil (it is quad-shield) appear 
> to be somewhat corroded (there  is a powdery grey residue that comes 
> out).  I reconnected the  junction, and within a few days both the short 
> and the moisture were  back.  In checking out the problem, I have cut 
> back a couple of  feet on the cable, and the grey residue is still 
evident.
>
> Is  water ingress a known problem with RG-6?  Any particular brand known  
> to be better?  If I'm going to replace the whole feedline I  might as 
> well do what I can.
>
>    


Pete,

Yes some brands or off brands of RG-6 sucks up  moisture like a sponge.  
They are a foam product and.with diurnal  sunlight heat and night time 
cooling on the jacket laying out in the sun  during the day, would IMHO 
act as sort of a pump.  You can mitigate  this a bit  with a cable that 
has be flooded with a special sticky  goo (flooding compound).  I have 
found out here that since VF and  cable attenuation are not a big thing 
that using good quality Belden RG-59  with a copper braid and solid 
interconductor is a much better  solution.

In CATV Foam, where UHF attenuation is always a factor,  without the 
flooding compound inside the jacked  it doesn't take long  to get to the 
point where the foil is pulverize to aluminum oxide  contaminating the 
cable run..  If  as in your case you run DC  for pre-amps and/or 
switching through the cable to relay boxes and  switching of reversible 
Beverages...expect even quicker deterioration as  some forms as 
electrolysis is certain. I have seen running DC make the  female F 
connector center pin actually dissolve. Always look for as  tarnish on 
the center conductor where it exist the RG-6 F-connector.   Scrapping it 
with a knife will only make things worse in the long run as  now you are 
down to steel and rather than copper plated steel. In fact DC  over the 
cable made things so bad here I now use separate feedlines for  even the 
DXE-Reversible boxes. Yes termination of the unused port is  important 
but this is done back at the shack with a self terminating  Dynair 12x1 
Video Passive switcher from a former TV  station.

Regular RG-6 connectors are not water proof either except  except some 
are available with and O ring and sealing gel from gel from  MCM for a 
few pennies more..  Even  tape wrap and then butyl  over that will help 
at the connectors.  But changing a connector and  removing it is very 
bothersome when the connector is covered with  Butyl.

Even protecting the connectors will not stop cable deterioration  if one 
little gnaw from of a small rodent, a peck of a robin looking for a  
worm,  or pin hole opens, or anything opens the flood gate for  ingress 
of moisture along the run.  Using inexpensive RG-6 is fine if  you plan 
to change it every 6 months or less.  If you need some long  term 
protection than the expensive self sealing flooded heavy jacketed  RG-6, 
direct buried in the ground is the way to go.  This keeps the  rats, weed 
wackers, and lawn mowers from destroying the quality of the  cable.  It 
also provides some reduction in heat effect.

There  is one positive thing about poor cable and that on TB is the last 
place  where it really shows up. I have had complete outer shield breaks 
and  still worked some nice DX.  In some case a few db's of attenuation  
are not all that noticeable.  But the dissimilar metals can be the  point 
at which birdies and signal re-rectification can make weak signal  
reception very difficult.

The MFJ analyzer will not tell you the  story and may even present a 
false positive reading if there is  significant attenuation in the 
cable.  I found the best test is to  measure the Beverage feed point 
transformer, which is hopefully floating  and not grounded, and based on 
the cable length I get about 1.2 ohms  center to shield at the shack.  If 
it starts to creep up then you may  have some shield deterioration 
offering cumulative resistance over the  length.

Most of the TB activists I have spoken to about this expect to  do a lot 
of Beverage maintenance both in the spring when the thaw melts  and then 
again in the fall before the contest season begins.   Actually it never 
ends as if you can get past the thunderstorms there is  plenty of 
trans-equatorial DX available. Nice thing about replacing  Beverages is 
the mental impact in thinking that you are going to hear  something now 
you didn't or couldn't hear before.  You could be  right.

73

Herb  Schoenbohm



------------------------------

Message:  5
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2010 17:04:36 -0400
From: "w8uvz"  <w8uvz at voyager.net>
Subject: Re: Topband: Staples
To: "W5UN"  <w5un at wt.net>
Cc: Topband at contesting.com
Message-ID:  <003801cad5cc$c4c3a040$6501a8c0 at GET>
Content-Type: text/plain;  format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original


And it makes great beverage wire too, rite  Dave?

We buy it locally from Tractor Supply.

73   George  W8UVZ


> Barb-less fence wire from McCoys Home  building supply works very well 
> for this. Buy a quarter mile roll,  and make thousands of staples any 
> length you need.
> 
>  Dave, W5UN
> 
>  _______________________________________________
> UR RST IS ... ... ..9  QSB QSB - hw?  BK
>


------------------------------

Message:  6
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2010 20:03:21 -0400
From: Guy Olinger K2AV  <olinger at bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Topband: deterioration of  RG-6
To: n4zr at contesting.com
Cc:  Topband at contesting.com
Message-ID:
<q2x46f338981004061703zac77e915ha78d104aa47e1acc at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type:  text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

I would have to call this the true  colors of RG6, given enough time.
I have had that problem with years old TV  & SAT leads around here, and
am going to flooded RG6 on anything new,  to prevent just what you
describe.  The oxidation is capable of  creating impedance anomalies at
TV frequencies and extra loss at MF.   In one aged case after the
jacket was removed for inspection, just a mild  flex of the remainder
split the foil, which clearly had become  brittle.

My best guess is that the braid creates an ingress path that  breathes
and contributes to condensation after time.

Splices and  connections on regular RG6 need to be vapor sealed ala
RG8, etc to prevent  what is otherwise an inevitable process.  Better
choice is to use  cable and connectors intended for burying, and the
spec'd tools to crimp  them.

73, Guy.

On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 8:18 AM, Pete Smith N4ZR  <n4zr at contesting.com> 
wrote:
> I feed my 160m receiving antenna  with about 300 feet of RG-6, which
> supplies power to an amplifier at  the antenna. ?Recently, I started
> seeing an high-resistance short  across the coax (~30-50 ohms). ?I took a
> junction apart and discovered  evidence of current flowing across the
> double-female, as wellas some  water in the connector. ?I changed it out,
> and also changed both  connectors on the cable, and in the process
> discovered that the braid  and the first foil (it is quad-shield) appear
> to be somewhat corroded  (there is a powdery grey residue that comes
> out). ?I reconnected the  junction, and within a few days both the short
> and the moisture were  back. ?In checking out the problem, I have cut
> back a couple of feet  on the cable, and the grey residue is still 
evident.
>
> Is water  ingress a known problem with RG-6? ?Any particular brand known
> to be  better? ?If I'm going to replace the whole feedline I might as
> well do  what I can.
>
> --
> 73, Pete N4ZR
>
> The World  Contest Station Database, updated daily at 
www.conteststations.com
> The  Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at  
reversebeacon.blogspot.com
>
>  _______________________________________________
> UR RST IS ... ... ..9  QSB QSB - hw?  BK
>


------------------------------

Message:  7
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2010 19:04:48 -0700
From: "Robin"  <wb6tza at socal.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Topband: deterioration of  RG-6
To: "160" <Topband at contesting.com>
Message-ID:  <DC41D88B59D1479ABB587626ED92A256 at HPMEDIA7650>
Content-Type:  text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original

Use flooded cable- its air spaces are flooded with  goo that does pretty
well at keeping water out.  Flooded cable is  available from many
suppliers - quad shield flooded cable is pretty  standard for the cable TV
folks.  If a section of the line gets  damaged, the goo will mostly keep the
water from wicking along the cable  and killing the whole run

check with whatever supplier you use, or do a  search for flooded RG-6 &
pick the best price for you

DO use the  correct connectors


73
Robin, WA6CDR


----- Original  Message ----- 
From: "Larry Pasman" <lrpmbt at comcast.net>
To:  <topband at contesting.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010  13:11
Subject: Topband: deterioration of RG-6


> Any coax or  feedline is likely to get moisture in it. Aluminum turns to a
> white  powder and copper turns black. What is happening is temperature
>  changes from day to night. Each time temperature cools down the coax  
acts
> like a big straw and sucks in moisture and can do so for several  feet. If
> the run is down hill water can make it all the way to the  shack.  If you
> are
> making a splice and cannot seal it  very well is not use electrical tape.
> Tape will only hold moisture in  and not let it dry. Using "F" connectors
> and
> a double female  will work if out in the open to allow drying. Simply
> mount
> it  on a small post above ground and put a flap of some sort over it.
>  Taping
> over connectors will only allow it to get wet and not  dry.
>
> _______________________________________________
>  UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw?  BK
>



------------------------------

Message:  8
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2010 23:28:35 -0500
From: "Price Smith"  <w0rihps at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Topband: Coax for receive
To:  <topband at contesting.com>
Message-ID:  <963B6D165EDE4FF78F2AC6F3E877C069 at haroldfd2f6007>
Content-Type:  text/plain;   charset="iso-8859-1"

If one would look a one of  the well known auction sites, you can find 
Alpha RG-58A.
I am sure that the  1000ft roll will go for a very cheap price.

As Herb said, RG-6 quality  is very good to terrible

73...Price  W?RI

------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Wed, 7  Apr 2010 04:59:58 +0000
From: Missouri Guy  <n0tt1 at juno.com>
Subject: Re: Topband: deterioration of RG-6
To:  n4zr at contesting.com,topband at contesting.com
Message-ID:  <20100407.050653.3360.1.N0TT1 at juno.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;  charset=us-ascii

Hi Pete,

> Is water ingress a known problem  with RG-6?  Any particular brand 
> known to be  better?

"Regular" RG6 will wick water into the shield and eventually  ruin the
coax.  Use only the "flooded" type outdoors.  Read more  below.
In my  experience, the brand of RG6 doesn't particularly  matter.  I 
bought all of mine on "the bay" in 1000' spools.  All  of it was 
quality USA-made, specifically for direct-bury. 

I have  quite a few feet of RG6, all buried, for my 9-circle RX array.
No water  problems.  I took the advice of the guys on this reflector
and  purchased nothing but "flooded" RG6....it's got a sticky-gooey
stuff  imbedded in the shields (wrapped AL foil and a single braid
over that) so  water won't wick it's way in.  I also use 
Thomas & Betts "Snap 'n  Seal" F-connectors that have a 
built-in O-ring.  Even with those, I  keep the connectors
totally out of direct rain exposure.   

73,
Charlie,  N0TT


------------------------------

Message: 10
Date:  Wed, 7 Apr 2010 07:34:45 -0400
From: "Mr. and Mrs. Magoo"  <magoo at isp.ca>
Subject: Topband: DOUBLE DIAMOND
To:  <topband at contesting.com>
Message-ID:  <B0C5F81DCC944D64B7A70347AEC7CC02 at MCHUGHU64FGOY>
Content-Type:  text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original

Has anyone who built one of these experienced any  loss in performance due 
to 
proximity of metallic objects such as hydro  lines, wire fences or such? 
Those I have seen described have been built  totally in the clear and far 
away from the above objects.

Bill,  VE3NH  



------------------------------

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