Topband: Another non-traditional antenna working.

ZR zr at
Thu Nov 17 13:27:57 PST 2011

You sort of lost me a day or so Guy as the posts were getting way too long 
and boring (-; that I deleted after the first page.
It appears that the FCP sort of took over the radial discussion somewhere 
along the way when I was sleeping and the subject line changed..

How about we leave the FCP to those who live in a mobile home or a place 
where the wife rules. I cant even fathom being stuck with a 10x70 yard!

And then concentrate on the average suburban ham with maybe a 100x100 or 
200x200 or so back yard to play in as that seems to be more the norm on 
here. At that prior QTH all I had was 100X200' to work with and the tower 
was about 30' from the side street (which happened to be due East and yet I 
had no problem in that direction after the mesh was installed), pure sand 
and stone for a ground, and no place to tie off an L top wire. Instead of 
endless discussions on copper wire radials of every length imaginable Im 
trying to get the point across that an in close and dense layer of plastic 
dipped fencing blows it all away and for little effort and money along with 
good longevity. Any radials added to the ends is pure gravy. That is far 
from a commercial quality installation as it wasnt uniform, length was about 
.09 wave, and the density was only partial since the fencing was put down as 
spokes. Lots of trees, brush, shed, and garage in the way. Not even close to 
ideal by any stretch.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Guy Olinger K2AV" <olinger at>
To: "ZR" <zr at>
Cc: <w7dra at>; <topband at>; <w0uce at>
Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 2:11 PM
Subject: Re: Topband: Another non-traditional antenna working.

> Hi, Carl,
> I repeat, a folded counterpoise is NO substitute for a dense and
> uniform system, which is what you had in the end.
> My question for you is if you had a 70 x 10 foot strip of that rocky
> stuff to construct a counterpoise, and that was all the space you had,
> period, and your neighbors hated your guts, what could you have done
> in that 70 x10 foot space?   The FCP as a device is decidely NOT in
> competition with any sturdy conceptual extension of the commercial
> grade dense and uniform radial field.  To anyone, if you can do dense
> and uniform, then do dense and uniform. You will love it. You will
> work lots of good stuff like Carl.  You need not be concerned with any
> of this thread.
> But if you can't do dense and uniform, then get decoupled from the
> dirt.  Absent dense and uniform, dirt (especially the rocky, sandy and
> urban mishmash kind) is your enemy.
> N3ND is in a small lot, it can ONLY go THERE, PERIOD, kind of
> situation.  The only reason we haven't just totally disinherited him
> and stripped him of his Master's degree in plotting and conniving for
> backing himself into that kind of a corner (literally), is that it's a
> wife's dream house kind of thing.  Very pretty, very lovely, gorgeous.
> AND the FUN of it is, we've got him on 160 IN SPITE of that, without a
> hint of going ugly  :>)
> 73, Guy.
> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 9:16 AM, ZR <zr at> wrote:
>> My 1988 CQ 160 top USA winner was a 90' shunt fed tower with a 10-20M 
>> stack
>> of 4 el on top. It also accounted for over 200 countries in about 3 
>> years.
>> This was on a 1 acre lot and some of the Beverage feedlines were over 
>> 1000'
>> long going into the woods out behind the development. Also friendly
>> neighbors who allowed me to run the feeds.
>> The ground was all sand and rock and the only thing that really worked 
>> was a
>> mat of galvanized and plastic dipped rabbit fencing extending 50' from 
>> the
>> base with about 60 random length radials out to 130' under it. With just 
>> the
>> radials performance was only fair.
>> Carl
>> KM1H
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