Topband: vertical dipole vs vertical with elev radials

[Bob K6UJ]

Charlie,

Yeah I see what you mean they each have a different take off angle lobe.
I will run a run a plot with EZNEC of each and see what they show. 

I have changed/ started a new subject title for this activity we are discussing, we
have taken off in a separate direction than the original thread.  
It will be interesting to see what we can find out.

73,
Bob
K6UJ



On Dec 15, 2012, at 2:42 PM, Charlie Cunningham wrote:

> Well, to me, Bob, the 1/2 wave 40m vertical seemed to be better - but not by
> much!  At the same time, though, it's worth noting that the base of the GP -
> and therefore, antenna current maximum, was only 6-8 ft high whereas the
> current maximum of the 1/2  wave 40m vertical was at about 38 ft and more
> clear of obstructions.
> 
> Charlie, K4OTV
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Bob K6UJ
> Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2012 2:58 PM
> To: Charlie Cunningham
> Cc: '160 reflector'
> Subject: Re: Topband: raised radials
> 
> Charlie,
> 
> I will post my results.  I had a vertical dipole up before and now am using
> the 40M GP.
> The vertical dipole "seems" to be the best performer for DX but what does
> that mean, hihi.
> I thought I would make a table with short path, long path etc.  and switch
> to each antenna using the RBN.
> Any suggestions on other comparisons or set up ?  
> 
> 73,
> Bob
> K6UJ
> 
> 
> On Dec 15, 2012, at 10:25 AM, Charlie Cunningham wrote:
> 
>> Well, I haven't done such an elaborate test, Bob! But I'd be extremely 
>> interested in seeing  your results! At present my 40 m GP is down 
>> because I needed to clear away the radials for some tree work
>> 
>> I still have parallel 40/30 vertical dipoles center fed through a W2DU 
>> style current balun. When I had the 40m GP in place. I could do direct 
>> comparisons. I was relying mostly on signal reports  from 9V1YC other 
>> Asians and ease of working him and others in south Asia on the evening 
>> south polar path on 40m!
>> 
>> Do let us know about  your results!
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Charlie, K4OTV
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Bob 
>> K6UJ
>> Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2012 1:50 PM
>> To: 160 reflector
>> Subject: Re: Topband: raised radials
>> 
>> I also have a 40M GP with 4 elevated resonant radials 6" above the ground.
>> I will be putting up a vertical dipole for 40M center fed with a choke 
>> balun for comparison on DX and will  compare with the RBN and see what I
> learn.
>> Has anyone on the forum tested these two 40M antennas using the 
>> reverse beacon network ?
>> And if so what were your results ?  
>> 
>> 73,
>> Bob
>> K6UJ
>> 
>> 
>> On Dec 15, 2012, at 5:45 AM, Charlie Cunningham wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi, Tom
>>> 
>>> Well, I also used a 40m GP with 4 elevated resonant radials about 6' 
>>> above ground and I worked an awful  lot of really good DX with it!! I 
>>> found it to be about equal to  my half-wave vertical dipole for 40m.
>>> (Center fed through a  home-made 1:1 W2DU style current balun)
>>> 
>>> Charlie, K4OTV
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of 
>>> Tom W8JI
>>> Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 2:24 PM
>>> To: David Michael Gaytko // WD4KPD; topband at contesting.com
>>> Subject: Re: Topband: raised radials
>>> 
>>>> the more i read, it seems raised radials are a fairly easy way to 
>>>> raise the effeciancy of a short vertical.
>>> 
>>> Only if the original ground system is a meager system with 
>>> significant
>> loss.
>>> 
>>> At my QTH on 40 meters, 4 elevated radials at 6 feet above ground 
>>> were about equal to 12-15 radials in the earth. That would be like 4 
>>> radials 24 feet above earth on 160.
>>> 
>>> The difference between them was the elevated radials only worked OK 
>>> on one or two bands (like 40 and 15), while the buried wires were 
>>> reasonably good on 160-10 meters, out of view, and protected for
>> lightning.
>>> 
>>>> i have a hy-gain 18ht with base loading.  can i use these raised 
>>>> radials with this antenna, and if so how to do it.  it is impossible 
>>>> to raise the whole antenna to get the base off the ground.
>>> 
>>> Since the antenna is an all band antenna, I don't think I would use a 
>>> resonant radial. I'd just bury as many radials as I could as long and 
>>> straight as possible, and enjoy all the bands. If you had 10-20 
>>> radials 60 feet or more long, it would be tough to make any 
>>> improvement on
>> lower bands.
>>> 
>>> If you use a resonant radial system, it really should be ground isolated.
> 
>>> That complicates things.
>>> 
>>> This 10-20 loss thing, at least to me, appears to be based on 
>>> anecdotal unconfirmed opinions. Like deer whistles on cars.
>>> 
>>> 73 Tom
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Topband reflector - topband at contesting.com
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Topband reflector - topband at contesting.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Topband reflector - topband at contesting.com
>> 
> 
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