Topband: DXCC Desk?

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

On 11/18/2013 9:29 AM, Herb Schoenbohm wrote:
 > What is the "DXCC Desk" anyway?  It used to be just Bob White W1CW
 > seated at a real oak desk with stacks of cards and papers and Bob's
 > omnipresent huge Sherlock Holmes handy magnifying glass to look for
 > any alterations.

The DXCC Desk is still the ARRL Awards Manager (e.g. NC1L) supported
by several clerical assistants.  The Awards program is located within
the ARRL MVP (Membership and Volunteer Programs) Department which is
managed by NN1N.

 > Now new countries are created and approved for political purposes
 > and real ones are refused for political purposes, like Kosovo and
 > Chechnya.

Fortunately, country creation is clearly defined in the DXCC rules
and "new ones" are no longer created for political reasons (like
Baldwin's Reef and Scaffold (BS) Reef).  Unfortunately, the rules
have a blind spot regarding Kosovo but adding "Independent States in
the World - http://www.state.gov/s/inr/rls/4250.htm - to the criteria
would solve that problem.  As far as Chechnya, Turkish Republic of
Northern Cyprus, Abkhazia, Nagorno-Karabakh, Transnistria, South
Ossetia, etc. they are all "governments in opposition" - not real
functioning nations recognized by either the US, the UN or a significant 
number of other nation.

73,

    ... Joe, W4TV


On 11/18/2013 9:29 AM, Herb Schoenbohm wrote:
> What is the "DXCC Desk" anyway?  It used to be just Bob White W1CW
> seated at a real oak desk with stacks of cards and papers and Bob's
> omnipresent huge Sherlock Holmes handy magnifying glass to look for any
> alterations.  Today I understand the "DXCC Desk" is no longer a desk at
> all but is comprised of computers, LOTW servers, and a DXCC Committee,
> which is "tasked" by another Committee made up primarily by HQ employees
> and answer, perhaps, to the ARRL Board of Directors.  I think the
> organization flow chart may even be a mystery inside of an enigma.
> Perhaps a Kafkaesque relic from some other place.   That's how they like
> it.  Now new countries are created and approved for political purposes
> and real ones are refused for political purposes, like Kosovo and
> Chechnya.    Maybe instead of referring to it as the "DXCC Desk" perhaps
> the "DXCC Regime"  would be more appropriate.
>
> Mis dos centavos
>
> Herb Schoenbohm, KV4FZ
>
>
>
>
>
> On 11/18/2013 9:12 AM, James Rodenkirch wrote:
>> Sheesh, Carl!! I doubt if the ARRL desk is gonna,  or even should,
>> weigh in on something they'd have no control over OR would have even
>> an inkling of what went on to cause them  to question it!
>> First off, last time I looked, the QSL sent and received is between
>> the sender, in this case me, and the receiver/replyee, the DX bubba
>> AND, most importantly, is based on the notion that both are telling
>> the truth!!!! How in the hell would/could the DXCC question that???
>> They gonna think we both are lying???
>> NOW, in the case of suspected "cheating" - me submitting a QSL card,
>> as part of my DXCC 160 package submission for a QSO on 160 between
>> K9JWV and PT0S at 1700Z on any day of the year - I could see them
>> saying "Prove it"!  Hi Hi
>> I am FASCINATED by your mention of a "Prove it, Dood" via requesting
>> an audio tape of a QSO for validation!!  Wow!!
>> 72, Jim R. K9JWV
>>
>>> From: km1h at jeremy.mv.com
>>> To: rodenkirch_llc at msn.com; bernie at dailydx.com
>>> CC: ve5ra at sasktel.net; topband at contesting.com; herbs at vitelcom.net
>>> Subject: Re: Topband: Don't give up AND log who worked the DX b4 and
>>> after!
>>> Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2013 20:03:05 -0500
>>>
>>> I would think that the ultimate decision is up to the ARRL DXCC desk.
>>> In the past if it wasnt in the log it didnt count....period...no
>>> matter who
>>> was before or after. Expecting an operator to remember a mistake months
>>> later...or his QSL manager....is a stretch.
>>>
>>> This brought about many decades ago of making a tape copy (that shows
>>> its
>>> age) whenever a new one was worked and a few times having to present
>>> it to
>>> the DXCC desk to obtain credit.
>>>
>>> Im not saying you both didnt do a full legitimate exchange, dont get me
>>> wrong there.
>>>
>>> Perhaps someone from the DXCC desk can weigh in.
>>>
>>> Carl
>>> KM1H
>>>
>>>
>>> ---- Original Message -----
>>> From: "James Rodenkirch" <rodenkirch_llc at msn.com>
>>> To: "Bernie McClenny, W3UR" <bernie at dailydx.com>; "KM1H Carl"
>>> <km1h at jeremy.mv.com>
>>> Cc: "Doug Renwick" <ve5ra at sasktel.net>; "Top Band Contesting"
>>> <topband at contesting.com>; "KV4FZ Herb" <herbs at vitelcom.net>
>>> Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2013 6:25 PM
>>> Subject: Re: Topband: Don't give up AND log who worked the DX b4 and
>>> after!
>>>
>>>
>>> As Bernie says, "Mistakes happen."
>>> Just to re-iterate --- they DID copy my call correctly!! I heard them
>>> come
>>> back to me with K9JWV 599! THAT's why I put in the log.
>>>   I wouldn't have logged the QSO if he came back "K9JJV 599"!!! I'd
>>> still be
>>> there calling them!! Hi HiI'm ok with the notion it's not a valid QSO IF
>>> they got my call wrong in the exchange, which they didn't! Them
>>> mucking up
>>> my call entry in the log is a different matter.
>>> 72, Jim R. K9JWV
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> From: bernie at dailydx.com
>>>> Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2013 15:29:18 -0500
>>>> To: zr at jeremy.mv.com
>>>> CC: herbs at vitelcom.net; topband at contesting.com; ve5ra at sasktel.net
>>>> Subject: Re: Topband: Don't give up AND log who worked the DX b4 and
>>>> after!
>>>>
>>>> Like I said - mistakes happen.  If the guy who made the mistake
>>>> realizes
>>>> he did so and is will to correct the error that is nothing wrong with
>>>> that.
>>>> Bernie
>>>>
>>>> Bernie McClenny, W3UR
>>>> Editor of The Daily DX, The Weekly DX and How's DX?
>>>> Two week trial - http://www.dailydx.com/trial.htm
>>>> https://twitter.com/dailydx
>>>> 410-489-6518
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Nov 16, 2013, at 8:46 AM, ZR <zr at jeremy.mv.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Ive always been under the impression that both calls have to be sent,
>>>>> received, and verified to count for DXCC and other awards. QSO's on
>>>>> 160
>>>>> are no different than EME when it comes to verification.
>>>>> Unless an audio recording (SSB/CW) is kept to verify a mistake was
>>>>> made
>>>>> in the log the result is still a busted call which also gets deleted
>>>>> during contest log checking.
>>>>>
>>>>> Am I wrong here?
>>>>>
>>>>> Carl
>>>>> KM1H
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bernie McClenny, W3UR"
>>>>> <bernie at dailydx.com>
>>>>> To: "Doug Renwick" <ve5ra at sasktel.net>
>>>>> Cc: "Topband reflector" <topband at contesting.com>; "KV4FZ Herb"
>>>>> <herbs at vitelcom.net>
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2013 6:08 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: Topband: Don't give up AND log who worked the DX b4 and
>>>>> after!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ugh - Let me go on the record as saying I don’t like this idea and I
>>>>> wish this can of worms was not opened!  Thankfully US stations (and
>>>>> hopefully others) no longer have second (personal) calls.  Yes we have
>>>>> club calls, but thankfully those QSOs will not count for ones personal
>>>>> DXCC records.  I’ve been on DXpeditions and had guys download all
>>>>> their
>>>>> calls on me (on each band and band mode!), taking away the opportunity
>>>>> for other Deserving DXers to get into the log.  Yes I realize
>>>>> sometimes
>>>>> the DXpedition or DX operator makes a mistake and I have been burned
>>>>> once or twice over the years, not at the fault of my own but by the
>>>>> other guy in the QSO.  I much prefer K9JWV’s method by noting in my
>>>>> log
>>>>> the previous or next QSO.
>>>>>
>>>>> Flame retardant suit on!
>>>>>
>>>>> 73
>>>>> Bernie
>>>>>
>>>>> Bernie McClenny, W3UR
>>>>>
>>>> _________________
>>>> Topband Reflector
>>> _________________
>>> Topband Reflector
>>>
>>>
>>> -----
>>> No virus found in this message.
>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>> Version: 10.0.1432 / Virus Database: 3222/6344 - Release Date: 11/17/13
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "James Rodenkirch" <rodenkirch_llc at msn.com>
>>> To: "Bernie McClenny, W3UR" <bernie at dailydx.com>; "KM1H Carl"
>>> <km1h at jeremy.mv.com>
>>> Cc: "Doug Renwick" <ve5ra at sasktel.net>; "Top Band Contesting"
>>> <topband at contesting.com>; "KV4FZ Herb" <herbs at vitelcom.net>
>>> Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2013 6:25 PM
>>> Subject: Re: Topband: Don't give up AND log who worked the DX b4 and
>>> after!
>>>
>>>
>>> As Bernie says, "Mistakes happen."
>>> Just to re-iterate --- they DID copy my call correctly!! I heard them
>>> come
>>> back to me with K9JWV 599! THAT's why I put in the log.
>>>   I wouldn't have logged the QSO if he came back "K9JJV 599"!!! I'd
>>> still be
>>> there calling them!! Hi HiI'm ok with the notion it's not a valid QSO IF
>>> they got my call wrong in the exchange, which they didn't! Them
>>> mucking up
>>> my call entry in the log is a different matter.
>>> 72, Jim R. K9JWV
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> From: bernie at dailydx.com
>>>> Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2013 15:29:18 -0500
>>>> To: zr at jeremy.mv.com
>>>> CC: herbs at vitelcom.net; topband at contesting.com; ve5ra at sasktel.net
>>>> Subject: Re: Topband: Don't give up AND log who worked the DX b4 and
>>>> after!
>>>>
>>>> Like I said - mistakes happen.  If the guy who made the mistake
>>>> realizes
>>>> he did so and is will to correct the error that is nothing wrong with
>>>> that.
>>>> Bernie
>>>>
>>>> Bernie McClenny, W3UR
>>>> Editor of The Daily DX, The Weekly DX and How's DX?
>>>> Two week trial - http://www.dailydx.com/trial.htm
>>>> https://twitter.com/dailydx
>>>> 410-489-6518
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Nov 16, 2013, at 8:46 AM, ZR <zr at jeremy.mv.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Ive always been under the impression that both calls have to be sent,
>>>>> received, and verified to count for DXCC and other awards. QSO's on
>>>>> 160
>>>>> are no different than EME when it comes to verification.
>>>>> Unless an audio recording (SSB/CW) is kept to verify a mistake was
>>>>> made
>>>>> in the log the result is still a busted call which also gets deleted
>>>>> during contest log checking.
>>>>>
>>>>> Am I wrong here?
>>>>>
>>>>> Carl
>>>>> KM1H
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bernie McClenny, W3UR"
>>>>> <bernie at dailydx.com>
>>>>> To: "Doug Renwick" <ve5ra at sasktel.net>
>>>>> Cc: "Topband reflector" <topband at contesting.com>; "KV4FZ Herb"
>>>>> <herbs at vitelcom.net>
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2013 6:08 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: Topband: Don't give up AND log who worked the DX b4 and
>>>>> after!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ugh - Let me go on the record as saying I don’t like this idea and I
>>>>> wish this can of worms was not opened!  Thankfully US stations (and
>>>>> hopefully others) no longer have second (personal) calls.  Yes we have
>>>>> club calls, but thankfully those QSOs will not count for ones personal
>>>>> DXCC records.  I’ve been on DXpeditions and had guys download all
>>>>> their
>>>>> calls on me (on each band and band mode!), taking away the opportunity
>>>>> for other Deserving DXers to get into the log.  Yes I realize
>>>>> sometimes
>>>>> the DXpedition or DX operator makes a mistake and I have been burned
>>>>> once or twice over the years, not at the fault of my own but by the
>>>>> other guy in the QSO.  I much prefer K9JWV’s method by noting in my
>>>>> log
>>>>> the previous or next QSO.
>>>>>
>>>>> Flame retardant suit on!
>>>>>
>>>>> 73
>>>>> Bernie
>>>>>
>>>>> Bernie McClenny, W3UR
>>>>>
>>>> _________________
>>>> Topband Reflector
>>> _________________
>>> Topband Reflector
>>>
>>>
>>> -----
>>> No virus found in this message.
>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>> Version: 10.0.1432 / Virus Database: 3222/6344 - Release Date: 11/17/13
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "James Rodenkirch" <rodenkirch_llc at msn.com>
>>> To: "Bernie McClenny, W3UR" <bernie at dailydx.com>; "KM1H Carl"
>>> <zr at jeremy.mv.com>
>>> Cc: "Doug Renwick" <ve5ra at sasktel.net>; "Top Band Contesting"
>>> <topband at contesting.com>; "KV4FZ Herb" <herbs at vitelcom.net>
>>> Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2013 6:25 PM
>>> Subject: Re: Topband: Don't give up AND log who worked the DX b4 and
>>> after!
>>>
>>>
>>> As Bernie says, "Mistakes happen."
>>> Just to re-iterate --- they DID copy my call correctly!! I heard them
>>> come
>>> back to me with K9JWV 599! THAT's why I put in the log.
>>>   I wouldn't have logged the QSO if he came back "K9JJV 599"!!! I'd
>>> still be
>>> there calling them!! Hi HiI'm ok with the notion it's not a valid QSO IF
>>> they got my call wrong in the exchange, which they didn't! Them
>>> mucking up
>>> my call entry in the log is a different matter.
>>> 72, Jim R. K9JWV
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> From: bernie at dailydx.com
>>>> Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2013 15:29:18 -0500
>>>> To: zr at jeremy.mv.com
>>>> CC: herbs at vitelcom.net; topband at contesting.com; ve5ra at sasktel.net
>>>> Subject: Re: Topband: Don't give up AND log who worked the DX b4 and
>>>> after!
>>>>
>>>> Like I said - mistakes happen.  If the guy who made the mistake
>>>> realizes
>>>> he did so and is will to correct the error that is nothing wrong with
>>>> that.
>>>> Bernie
>>>>
>>>> Bernie McClenny, W3UR
>>>> Editor of The Daily DX, The Weekly DX and How's DX?
>>>> Two week trial - http://www.dailydx.com/trial.htm
>>>> https://twitter.com/dailydx
>>>> 410-489-6518
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Nov 16, 2013, at 8:46 AM, ZR <zr at jeremy.mv.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Ive always been under the impression that both calls have to be sent,
>>>>> received, and verified to count for DXCC and other awards. QSO's on
>>>>> 160
>>>>> are no different than EME when it comes to verification.
>>>>> Unless an audio recording (SSB/CW) is kept to verify a mistake was
>>>>> made
>>>>> in the log the result is still a busted call which also gets deleted
>>>>> during contest log checking.
>>>>>
>>>>> Am I wrong here?
>>>>>
>>>>> Carl
>>>>> KM1H
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bernie McClenny, W3UR"
>>>>> <bernie at dailydx.com>
>>>>> To: "Doug Renwick" <ve5ra at sasktel.net>
>>>>> Cc: "Topband reflector" <topband at contesting.com>; "KV4FZ Herb"
>>>>> <herbs at vitelcom.net>
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2013 6:08 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: Topband: Don't give up AND log who worked the DX b4 and
>>>>> after!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ugh - Let me go on the record as saying I don’t like this idea and I
>>>>> wish this can of worms was not opened!  Thankfully US stations (and
>>>>> hopefully others) no longer have second (personal) calls.  Yes we have
>>>>> club calls, but thankfully those QSOs will not count for ones personal
>>>>> DXCC records.  I’ve been on DXpeditions and had guys download all
>>>>> their
>>>>> calls on me (on each band and band mode!), taking away the opportunity
>>>>> for other Deserving DXers to get into the log.  Yes I realize
>>>>> sometimes
>>>>> the DXpedition or DX operator makes a mistake and I have been burned
>>>>> once or twice over the years, not at the fault of my own but by the
>>>>> other guy in the QSO.  I much prefer K9JWV’s method by noting in my
>>>>> log
>>>>> the previous or next QSO.
>>>>>
>>>>> Flame retardant suit on!
>>>>>
>>>>> 73
>>>>> Bernie
>>>>>
>>>>> Bernie McClenny, W3UR
>>>>>
>>>> _________________
>>>> Topband Reflector
>>> _________________
>>> Topband Reflector
>>>
>>>
>>> -----
>>> No virus found in this message.
>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>> Version: 10.0.1432 / Virus Database: 3222/6344 - Release Date: 11/17/13
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _________________
>> Topband Reflector
>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector
>