Topband: DXCC Desk?

Joe Subich, W4TV lists at subich.com
Mon Nov 18 14:47:05 EST 2013 

Len,

> Why, you might ask after all this suffering, is that this nation
> still is not recognazid as a separate entity to this very small
> world  of the global assembly that Ham radio really is?

Ask the Serbs and Russians why they blocked Kosovar membership in the
UN and prevented ITU from assigning a callsign block, dialing prefix
and internet TLD?  If the Serbs and Russians recognize the Palestine
they could certainly allow Kosovo similar international privileges.

Kosovo is recognized by the US as an "independent state" (see:
http://www.state.gov/s/inr/rls/4250.htm) and like the EU the US
maintains diplomatic relations with Kosovo.  Unfortunately, the
DXCC Rules (see: http://www.arrl.org/files/file/DXCC/DXCC%20Rules.pdf)
do not include the US DOS "Independent States in the World" listing as
a qualifying option for a "Political (Rule 1) Entity".

73,

    ... Joe, W4TV


On 11/18/2013 11:27 AM, Lennart Michaelsson wrote:
> Hi Herb et al,
>
> In Europe  Kosovo is considered to be an autonom and independent unit. In
> fact both the  EU and NATO did bring the forces necessary to bring the war
> to an end. Why, you might ask after all this suffering, is that this nation
> still is not recognazid as a separate entity to this very small world of the
> global assembly that Ham  radio really is?
> Len
> SM7BIC
>
> -----Ursprungligt meddelande-----
> Från: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces at contesting.com] För Herb Schoenbohm
> Skickat: den 18 november 2013 15:30
> Till: topband at contesting.com
> Ämne: Topband: DXCC Desk?
>
> What is the "DXCC Desk" anyway?  It used to be just Bob White W1CW seated at
> a real oak desk with stacks of cards and papers and Bob's omnipresent huge
> Sherlock Holmes handy magnifying glass to look for any alterations.  Today I
> understand the "DXCC Desk" is no longer a desk at all but is comprised of
> computers, LOTW servers, and a DXCC Committee, which is "tasked" by another
> Committee made up primarily by HQ employees and answer, perhaps, to the ARRL
> Board of Directors.  I think the organization flow chart may even be a
> mystery inside of an enigma.
> Perhaps a Kafkaesque relic from some other place.   That's how they like
> it.  Now new countries are created and approved for political purposes and
> real ones are refused for political purposes, like Kosovo and
> Chechnya.    Maybe instead of referring to it as the "DXCC Desk" perhaps
> the "DXCC Regime"  would be more appropriate.
>
> Mis dos centavos
>
> Herb Schoenbohm, KV4FZ
>
>
>
>
>
> On 11/18/2013 9:12 AM, James Rodenkirch wrote:
>> Sheesh, Carl!! I doubt if the ARRL desk is gonna,  or even should,  weigh
> in on something they'd have no control over OR would have even an inkling of
> what went on to cause them  to question it!
>> First off, last time I looked, the QSL sent and received is between the
> sender, in this case me, and the receiver/replyee, the DX bubba AND, most
> importantly, is based on the notion that both are telling the truth!!!! How
> in the hell would/could the DXCC question that??? They gonna think we both
> are lying???
>> NOW, in the case of suspected "cheating" - me submitting a QSL card,
>> as part of my DXCC 160 package submission for a QSO on 160 between K9JWV
> and PT0S at 1700Z on any day of the year - I could see them saying "Prove
> it"!  Hi Hi I am FASCINATED by your mention of a "Prove it, Dood" via
> requesting an audio tape of a QSO for validation!!  Wow!!
>> 72, Jim R. K9JWV
>>
>>> From: km1h at jeremy.mv.com
>>> To: rodenkirch_llc at msn.com; bernie at dailydx.com
>>> CC: ve5ra at sasktel.net; topband at contesting.com; herbs at vitelcom.net
>>> Subject: Re: Topband: Don't give up AND log who worked the DX b4 and
> after!
>>> Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2013 20:03:05 -0500
>>>
>>> I would think that the ultimate decision is up to the ARRL DXCC desk.
>>> In the past if it wasnt in the log it didnt count....period...no
>>> matter who was before or after. Expecting an operator to remember a
>>> mistake months later...or his QSL manager....is a stretch.
>>>
>>> This brought about many decades ago of making a tape copy (that shows
>>> its
>>> age) whenever a new one was worked and a few times having to present
>>> it to the DXCC desk to obtain credit.
>>>
>>> Im not saying you both didnt do a full legitimate exchange, dont get
>>> me wrong there.
>>>
>>> Perhaps someone from the DXCC desk can weigh in.
>>>
>>> Carl
>>> KM1H
>>>
>>>
>>> ---- Original Message -----
>>> From: "James Rodenkirch" <rodenkirch_llc at msn.com>
>>> To: "Bernie McClenny, W3UR" <bernie at dailydx.com>; "KM1H Carl"
>>> <km1h at jeremy.mv.com>
>>> Cc: "Doug Renwick" <ve5ra at sasktel.net>; "Top Band Contesting"
>>> <topband at contesting.com>; "KV4FZ Herb" <herbs at vitelcom.net>
>>> Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2013 6:25 PM
>>> Subject: Re: Topband: Don't give up AND log who worked the DX b4 and
> after!
>>>
>>>
>>> As Bernie says, "Mistakes happen."
>>> Just to re-iterate --- they DID copy my call correctly!! I heard them
>>> come back to me with K9JWV 599! THAT's why I put in the log.
>>>    I wouldn't have logged the QSO if he came back "K9JJV 599"!!! I'd
>>> still be there calling them!! Hi HiI'm ok with the notion it's not a
>>> valid QSO IF they got my call wrong in the exchange, which they
>>> didn't! Them mucking up my call entry in the log is a different matter.
>>> 72, Jim R. K9JWV
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> From: bernie at dailydx.com
>>>> Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2013 15:29:18 -0500
>>>> To: zr at jeremy.mv.com
>>>> CC: herbs at vitelcom.net; topband at contesting.com; ve5ra at sasktel.net
>>>> Subject: Re: Topband: Don't give up AND log who worked the DX b4 and
>>>> after!
>>>>
>>>> Like I said - mistakes happen.  If the guy who made the mistake
>>>> realizes he did so and is will to correct the error that is nothing
>>>> wrong with that.
>>>> Bernie
>>>>
>>>> Bernie McClenny, W3UR
>>>> Editor of The Daily DX, The Weekly DX and How's DX?
>>>> Two week trial - http://www.dailydx.com/trial.htm
>>>> https://twitter.com/dailydx
>>>> 410-489-6518
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Nov 16, 2013, at 8:46 AM, ZR <zr at jeremy.mv.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Ive always been under the impression that both calls have to be
>>>>> sent, received, and verified to count for DXCC and other awards.
>>>>> QSO's on 160 are no different than EME when it comes to verification.
>>>>> Unless an audio recording (SSB/CW) is kept to verify a mistake was
>>>>> made in the log the result is still a busted call which also gets
>>>>> deleted during contest log checking.
>>>>>
>>>>> Am I wrong here?
>>>>>
>>>>> Carl
>>>>> KM1H
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bernie McClenny, W3UR"
>>>>> <bernie at dailydx.com>
>>>>> To: "Doug Renwick" <ve5ra at sasktel.net>
>>>>> Cc: "Topband reflector" <topband at contesting.com>; "KV4FZ Herb"
>>>>> <herbs at vitelcom.net>
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2013 6:08 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: Topband: Don't give up AND log who worked the DX b4
>>>>> and after!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ugh - Let me go on the record as saying I don’t like this idea and
>>>>> I wish this can of worms was not opened!  Thankfully US stations
>>>>> (and hopefully others) no longer have second (personal) calls.  Yes
>>>>> we have club calls, but thankfully those QSOs will not count for
>>>>> ones personal DXCC records.  I’ve been on DXpeditions and had guys
>>>>> download all their calls on me (on each band and band mode!),
>>>>> taking away the opportunity for other Deserving DXers to get into
>>>>> the log.  Yes I realize sometimes the DXpedition or DX operator
>>>>> makes a mistake and I have been burned once or twice over the
>>>>> years, not at the fault of my own but by the other guy in the QSO.
>>>>> I much prefer K9JWV’s method by noting in my log the previous or next
> QSO.
>>>>>
>>>>> Flame retardant suit on!
>>>>>
>>>>> 73
>>>>> Bernie
>>>>>
>>>>> Bernie McClenny, W3UR
>>>>>
>>>> _________________
>>>> Topband Reflector
>>> _________________
>>> Topband Reflector
>>>
>>>
>>> -----
>>> No virus found in this message.
>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>> Version: 10.0.1432 / Virus Database: 3222/6344 - Release Date:
>>> 11/17/13
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "James Rodenkirch" <rodenkirch_llc at msn.com>
>>> To: "Bernie McClenny, W3UR" <bernie at dailydx.com>; "KM1H Carl"
>>> <km1h at jeremy.mv.com>
>>> Cc: "Doug Renwick" <ve5ra at sasktel.net>; "Top Band Contesting"
>>> <topband at contesting.com>; "KV4FZ Herb" <herbs at vitelcom.net>
>>> Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2013 6:25 PM
>>> Subject: Re: Topband: Don't give up AND log who worked the DX b4 and
> after!
>>>
>>>
>>> As Bernie says, "Mistakes happen."
>>> Just to re-iterate --- they DID copy my call correctly!! I heard them
>>> come back to me with K9JWV 599! THAT's why I put in the log.
>>>    I wouldn't have logged the QSO if he came back "K9JJV 599"!!! I'd
>>> still be there calling them!! Hi HiI'm ok with the notion it's not a
>>> valid QSO IF they got my call wrong in the exchange, which they
>>> didn't! Them mucking up my call entry in the log is a different matter.
>>> 72, Jim R. K9JWV
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> From: bernie at dailydx.com
>>>> Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2013 15:29:18 -0500
>>>> To: zr at jeremy.mv.com
>>>> CC: herbs at vitelcom.net; topband at contesting.com; ve5ra at sasktel.net
>>>> Subject: Re: Topband: Don't give up AND log who worked the DX b4 and
>>>> after!
>>>>
>>>> Like I said - mistakes happen.  If the guy who made the mistake
>>>> realizes he did so and is will to correct the error that is nothing
>>>> wrong with that.
>>>> Bernie
>>>>
>>>> Bernie McClenny, W3UR
>>>> Editor of The Daily DX, The Weekly DX and How's DX?
>>>> Two week trial - http://www.dailydx.com/trial.htm
>>>> https://twitter.com/dailydx
>>>> 410-489-6518
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Nov 16, 2013, at 8:46 AM, ZR <zr at jeremy.mv.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Ive always been under the impression that both calls have to be
>>>>> sent, received, and verified to count for DXCC and other awards.
>>>>> QSO's on 160 are no different than EME when it comes to verification.
>>>>> Unless an audio recording (SSB/CW) is kept to verify a mistake was
>>>>> made in the log the result is still a busted call which also gets
>>>>> deleted during contest log checking.
>>>>>
>>>>> Am I wrong here?
>>>>>
>>>>> Carl
>>>>> KM1H
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bernie McClenny, W3UR"
>>>>> <bernie at dailydx.com>
>>>>> To: "Doug Renwick" <ve5ra at sasktel.net>
>>>>> Cc: "Topband reflector" <topband at contesting.com>; "KV4FZ Herb"
>>>>> <herbs at vitelcom.net>
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2013 6:08 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: Topband: Don't give up AND log who worked the DX b4
>>>>> and after!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ugh - Let me go on the record as saying I don’t like this idea and
>>>>> I wish this can of worms was not opened!  Thankfully US stations
>>>>> (and hopefully others) no longer have second (personal) calls.  Yes
>>>>> we have club calls, but thankfully those QSOs will not count for
>>>>> ones personal DXCC records.  I’ve been on DXpeditions and had guys
>>>>> download all their calls on me (on each band and band mode!),
>>>>> taking away the opportunity for other Deserving DXers to get into
>>>>> the log.  Yes I realize sometimes the DXpedition or DX operator
>>>>> makes a mistake and I have been burned once or twice over the
>>>>> years, not at the fault of my own but by the other guy in the QSO.
>>>>> I much prefer K9JWV’s method by noting in my log the previous or next
> QSO.
>>>>>
>>>>> Flame retardant suit on!
>>>>>
>>>>> 73
>>>>> Bernie
>>>>>
>>>>> Bernie McClenny, W3UR
>>>>>
>>>> _________________
>>>> Topband Reflector
>>> _________________
>>> Topband Reflector
>>>
>>>
>>> -----
>>> No virus found in this message.
>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>> Version: 10.0.1432 / Virus Database: 3222/6344 - Release Date:
>>> 11/17/13
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "James Rodenkirch" <rodenkirch_llc at msn.com>
>>> To: "Bernie McClenny, W3UR" <bernie at dailydx.com>; "KM1H Carl"
>>> <zr at jeremy.mv.com>
>>> Cc: "Doug Renwick" <ve5ra at sasktel.net>; "Top Band Contesting"
>>> <topband at contesting.com>; "KV4FZ Herb" <herbs at vitelcom.net>
>>> Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2013 6:25 PM
>>> Subject: Re: Topband: Don't give up AND log who worked the DX b4 and
> after!
>>>
>>>
>>> As Bernie says, "Mistakes happen."
>>> Just to re-iterate --- they DID copy my call correctly!! I heard them
>>> come back to me with K9JWV 599! THAT's why I put in the log.
>>>    I wouldn't have logged the QSO if he came back "K9JJV 599"!!! I'd
>>> still be there calling them!! Hi HiI'm ok with the notion it's not a
>>> valid QSO IF they got my call wrong in the exchange, which they
>>> didn't! Them mucking up my call entry in the log is a different matter.
>>> 72, Jim R. K9JWV
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> From: bernie at dailydx.com
>>>> Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2013 15:29:18 -0500
>>>> To: zr at jeremy.mv.com
>>>> CC: herbs at vitelcom.net; topband at contesting.com; ve5ra at sasktel.net
>>>> Subject: Re: Topband: Don't give up AND log who worked the DX b4 and
>>>> after!
>>>>
>>>> Like I said - mistakes happen.  If the guy who made the mistake
>>>> realizes he did so and is will to correct the error that is nothing
>>>> wrong with that.
>>>> Bernie
>>>>
>>>> Bernie McClenny, W3UR
>>>> Editor of The Daily DX, The Weekly DX and How's DX?
>>>> Two week trial - http://www.dailydx.com/trial.htm
>>>> https://twitter.com/dailydx
>>>> 410-489-6518
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Nov 16, 2013, at 8:46 AM, ZR <zr at jeremy.mv.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Ive always been under the impression that both calls have to be
>>>>> sent, received, and verified to count for DXCC and other awards.
>>>>> QSO's on 160 are no different than EME when it comes to verification.
>>>>> Unless an audio recording (SSB/CW) is kept to verify a mistake was
>>>>> made in the log the result is still a busted call which also gets
>>>>> deleted during contest log checking.
>>>>>
>>>>> Am I wrong here?
>>>>>
>>>>> Carl
>>>>> KM1H
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bernie McClenny, W3UR"
>>>>> <bernie at dailydx.com>
>>>>> To: "Doug Renwick" <ve5ra at sasktel.net>
>>>>> Cc: "Topband reflector" <topband at contesting.com>; "KV4FZ Herb"
>>>>> <herbs at vitelcom.net>
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2013 6:08 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: Topband: Don't give up AND log who worked the DX b4
>>>>> and after!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ugh - Let me go on the record as saying I don’t like this idea and
>>>>> I wish this can of worms was not opened!  Thankfully US stations
>>>>> (and hopefully others) no longer have second (personal) calls.  Yes
>>>>> we have club calls, but thankfully those QSOs will not count for
>>>>> ones personal DXCC records.  I’ve been on DXpeditions and had guys
>>>>> download all their calls on me (on each band and band mode!),
>>>>> taking away the opportunity for other Deserving DXers to get into
>>>>> the log.  Yes I realize sometimes the DXpedition or DX operator
>>>>> makes a mistake and I have been burned once or twice over the
>>>>> years, not at the fault of my own but by the other guy in the QSO.
>>>>> I much prefer K9JWV’s method by noting in my log the previous or next
> QSO.
>>>>>
>>>>> Flame retardant suit on!
>>>>>
>>>>> 73
>>>>> Bernie
>>>>>
>>>>> Bernie McClenny, W3UR
>>>>>
>>>> _________________
>>>> Topband Reflector
>>> _________________
>>> Topband Reflector
>>>
>>>
>>> -----
>>> No virus found in this message.
>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>> Version: 10.0.1432 / Virus Database: 3222/6344 - Release Date:
>>> 11/17/13
>>>
>>>
>>    		 	   		
>> _________________
>> Topband Reflector
>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector
>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector
>

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