Topband: Modeling the proverbial "vertical on a beach"

[Carl]

It all depends upon the propagation and the TX and RX stations.

A full size vertical in salt water will have a much lower angle at or near 
peak power than one miles back in the woods with typical ground and 
surrounding enviromental losses. One less hop could easily account for the 
large difference if both locations are ideally seperated.

Never say never unless you have absolute proof to back it up.

Carl
KM1H



>
> For Skimmer comparisons signals have to be on the air at the same time and
> the transmitting stations not to far apart from each other.
> In that case there is no statistical noise.
> But I would not expect the here claimed 20db difference.
>
> 73
> Peter
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Michael
> Tope
> Sent: Donnerstag, 14. August 2014 23:04
> To: topband at contesting.com
> Subject: Re: Topband: Modeling the proverbial "vertical on a beach"
>
> On 8/13/2014 6:28 PM, Tom W8JI wrote:
>>>
>>
>> But skimmer, which displays a relative level, does not show the level
>> difference.
>>
>> Skimmer shows about the same peak levels, but the stations closer or
>> over salt water paths (not localized salt water) have longer openings
>> but no more level for peak level. Anyone can look at that.
>>
>> K3LR is about as strong into Europe, when I look at skimmer levels, as
>> someone on the coast.
>>
>> The exceptions are people right next door to Europe (like VY1).
>>
>>
>> 73 Tom
>
> Tom,
>
> How much skimmer data did you mine before establishing a firm conclusion
> that the advantages of saltwater proximity are exaggerated?
>
> Myself, I think of how well AA7JV and HA7RY have done at various
> locations using antennas that were very close to or in some cases
> literally in the saltwater. The consistency of their topband signals
> compared to Dxpeditions who were confined to inland locations seems to
> point to a big advantage. I'll admit, however, that this hypotheses
> comes about from anecdotal observations filtered through a mental lens
> that is biased towards believing saltwater is a huge advantage.
>
> I think using skimmer is an excellent approach to this question provided
> of course that you have mined enough data to filter out the statistical
> noise.
>
> 73, Mike W4EF...................
>
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