Topband: Rig Question

Carl km1h at jeremy.mv.com
Thu Jun 19 13:30:32 EDT 2014 

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "W0MU Mike Fatchett" <w0mu at w0mu.com>
To: <topband at contesting.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2014 12:05 PM
Subject: Re: Topband: Rig Question


> Is my P3 Monitor worth it.  Yes. necessary no.  Does it allow me to work 
> DX faster yes.  Pretty handy knowing exactly where the last guy the dx 
> just worked was or the pattern the dx uses or finding holes in the 
> pileups.

** Listening awhile will establish a pattern, knowing how and when to 
transmit is a skill. Depending on a display just reduces skill levels 
required and actually makes it harder as monkey see monkey do mentality 
takes over and the pileup does the same.


>
> How many rigs have true diversity receive?  One?  Does it help? It sure 
> does.

** For the handfull that have the real estate to implement it properly.

  W6AM was using this long ago on his rombic farm. Does everyone
> need it?  No.

** Diversity reception has been around since the 20's by the commercial 
sites. Often manned by hams it caught on long before Don.


> Phase noise in a MM situation can be awful.  K3's have minimized this.

** So do switchable filters that drop it 40-60dB or so. A single coax stub 
by about 25dB here allows pure 2 station operation without interferance from 
80's rigs.
.
> Many of the big dxpeditions are only taking K3's because of this and the 
> best receiver available.  When you have the world calling you do need the 
> best.

** Perceptions, pressure, freebies all play into the picture. I wont 
disagree the K3 has a good receiver, especially for CW but GOOD 
DXpedition/contest ops have contended with worse for decades and set new 
records


> Thankfully we have choices.
>
> Why should radio be any different than cars?  Why do we have so many 
> choices?  They all go down the road at 65mph and are pretty safe.  There 
> are far more choices in brands of cars and price points than ham radio.
>
> The bottom line is that people like choices.  Thankfully we have them.
>
> Mike W0MU

** The auto industry is a prime example against too many choices. The public 
isnt intelligent enough to understand why. Nobody really wins and the price 
goes up since production quantities by model decrease.
Ford set records with the Model T and A which still stand. The 57 Chevy used 
the same rolling chassis and driveline as the 55 and 56 with more engine 
choices being the only variable. The 58 used the same rolling chassis with 
some reinforcements. The 59-64 was basically the same frame with incremental 
engine and transmission differences.
The Mustang shared many components year to year plus with other models; 
underneath the sheetmetal it was a Falcon/Comet.

The hugely popular 1986-95 Taurus/Sable shared a lot of body and interior 
parts over that span but engine/transmission/electronics swaps were limited 
to 2-3 years.

These days almost every year is different in some major way, 
interchangability is minimal and prices escalate. Plus vehicles are junked 
before they are really worn out which adds to cost, pollution, natural 
resources, etc.

Carl
KM1H


>
> On 6/19/2014 9:54 AM, Carl wrote:
>> What I dont understand is even the need for some of these fancy rigs.
>>
>> DXers and contesters on any band 160-10M havent really progressed much in 
>> close to 30 years based upon the rig alone. PC control has been around a 
>> long time and a simple external box can shape the TX/RX audio.
>>
>> Key clix, phase noise, ALC spikes, reliability problems, constant 
>> updates/fixes, and more are still with us...no progress there.
>> Overdriven SSB rigs and amps by those with a simian IQ are more prevalent 
>> than ever IMO.
>>
>> Is a built in panadaptor really needed? I have a SM-230 and SM-240 that 
>> are rarely of any use on HF and especially 160. I use the SM-230 
>> regularly on 6M CW DX due to the random nature of DX band openings and 
>> fast moving E clouds.
>>
>> Advancements have been in receive antennas and control systems. Ive never 
>> found a second receiver built in to be any help. OTOH I do have a 
>> seperate rig, amp, split and fader controllable headphones, and antenna 
>> selection switching matrix that allows me to be on 2 bands at once 
>> chasing DXpeditions even on different modes.
>> This is with mid to late 80's gear.
>>
>> Advancements in automatic amp and antenna/rotator control plus logging 
>> and spotting networks are, again IMO, a primary reason for higher contest 
>> scores and the xcvr used has little to do with it.
>>
>> With the huge acceptance of the TS-590 by all levels of ops it is a big 
>> statement as to why spend $$$ for very little improvement.....those who 
>> always want the biggest and best toys arent included. Buy 2 and a second 
>> amp (lots of good used ones in the $1000-1500 range) and spend less money 
>> than just a xcvr in some cases.
>>
>> Many hams Ive talked to are wasting 1-3dB in feedline loss by the time 
>> they get to 10M. VSWR loss is additive to the flat loss making some 
>> antennas even more lossy over a full band. CATV hardline; and cheap 50 
>> Ohm versions with connectors are free to even less than scrap copper 
>> these days as the 2 way and paging businesses have tanked.
>>
>> In the automotive world the Corvette and Mustangs (and toss the new 
>> SRT/Dodge Viper into the mix) are giving even the highest priced Euro 
>> cars fits on the tracks and dragstrips at a fraction of the cost....there 
>> is American technology at its best where it is actually measurable one on 
>> one unlike with ham rigs which are more a personal and emotional choice, 
>> and perceived rather than real useful performance.
>>
>> Carl
>> KM1H
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "W7RH" <midnight18 at cox.net>
>> To: <topband at contesting.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2014 9:42 AM
>> Subject: Re: Topband: Rig Question
>>
>>
>>> Much of the discussion of todays transceivers is like comparing apples 
>>> to apples. My situation did not require a big box status symbol with 
>>> over a hundred button features. My requirements were standard 
>>> communications interface ala serial, USB or Ethernet control with a 
>>> decent receiver. Sub menus via computer screen.
>>>
>>> My ten year remote project started  before K3 days and most 
>>> manufacturers could not satisfy the above requirement without silly 
>>> interface boxes. Many of those who had the specific features had lack 
>>> luster firmware and software control. My interest in remote operation 
>>> due to big city life and restrictions fueled my multiscreen computer 
>>> control and I ended up with a Kenwood TS480 with the narrow 270 Hz cw 
>>> filter option.
>>>
>>> DXing is a casual operation for me and separate simple SDR with loop is 
>>> used for basic split frequency operation. Proper adjustment of the 
>>> attenuator, RF gain and ALC is the key to this radio specific 
>>> performance. Dual receive diversity is through a simple audio mixer and 
>>> really is seldom used.
>>>
>>> My option is not for everyone. However, with the typical longtime ham 
>>> station for seasoned low bander or contester in the price range of a 
>>> couple of Harleys or nice BMW it is not out of sight.
>>>
>>> The bottom line. A simple transceiver with quiet location and good 
>>> antenna works for me. If you can't hear them you can't work them no 
>>> matter what you spend.
>>>
>>> 73,
>>> Bob W7RH
>>>
>>> http://w7rh.net
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> W7RH DM35OS
>>>
>>> Some people regard private enterprise as a predatory tiger to be shot. 
>>> Others look on it as a cow they can milk. Not enough people see it as a 
>>> healthy horse, pulling a sturdy wagon.
>>> Winston Churchill
>>>
>>> _________________
>>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>>
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>>
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