Topband: Deployable radials for 80/160M
KB8NTY
kb8nty at wowway.com
Fri Jun 27 14:20:39 EDT 2014
Always enjoy RF Ground Radial conversation!
Regarding the solid over stranded wire...I have found that the stranded
behaves much better when laying it down as it forms to the various contours
of the earths surface, where as the solid seems to have a mind of its
own!...The solid has been known to break at times with the repeated flexing
where as the stranded goes along with the flow.
Also the insulated has seemed to hold up better over the bare wire also,
possibly being protected from the soils elements by its insulation.
What's great about ground radials is they are so forgiving for the most
part...In my 125+ radials installed with my Butternut HF9V, I have used a
multitude of different wire types and most have seemed to do the job.
I have stayed away from the chicken wire types and such as upon digging up
after a few years they are bad news, and as one mentioned can actually add
to generated noise & potential interference.
I am in the middle of intense wire researching as, I am now sourcing from
overseas suppliers going direct for deep discounted pricing to offer ground
radials along with my RossRadio Ground Radial Lawn Staple Anchor Pins. My
goal is to pass the savings on...in the spirit of amateur radio. Of-course
when buying direct overseas I am required to purchase a very large quantity,
so I have to get it right the first time!
-73-
Ross KB8NTY
RossRadio
RF Ground Radial Website (all about only ground radials)
http://www.rossradio.net/
Ground Radial Discussion Group: Please Visit & Join In!
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/groundradial/conversations/messages
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
----- Original Message -----
From: <topband-request at contesting.com>
To: <topband at contesting.com>
Sent: Friday, June 27, 2014 12:00 PM
Subject: Topband Digest, Vol 138, Issue 24
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Spam:************, Re: Deployable radials for 80/160M
> (Matthew King - KK4CPS)
> 2. Re: Deployable radials for 80/160M (Richard (Rick) Karlquist)
> 3. Re: Deployable radials for 80/160M (Grant Saviers)
> 4. Re: Spam:************, Re: Deployable radials for 80/160M
> (mstangelo at comcast.net)
> 5. , Re: Deployable radials for 80/160M (Jim Garland)
> 6. Re: Spam:************, Re: Deployable radials for 80/160M
> (Bill Wichers)
> 7. Re: Beverage feedline (Bill Wichers)
> 8. Re: Beverage feedline (k1zm--- via Topband)
> 9. Re: FD in the 60's (GALE STEWARD via Topband)
> 10. Re: Beverage feedline (Michael Tope)
> 11. Re: Deployable radials for 80/160M (Carl)
> 12. Re: Beverage feedline (Carl)
> 13. Re: Deployable radials for 80/160M (mstangelo at comcast.net)
> 14. Re: , Re: Deployable radials for 80/160M (Carl)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2014 13:01:59 -0400
> From: Matthew King - KK4CPS <KK4CPS at gmail.com>
> To: herbs at vitelcom.net
> Cc: topband at contesting.com
> Subject: Re: Topband: Spam:************, Re: Deployable radials for
> 80/160M
> Message-ID:
> <CAKs+UsnScb=iL8MqPyxmk0FPJCDQ4JpeE5p6FaRG2h4FQ4EjYQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Wouldn't stranded wire be preferred for such a use? Maybe I'm missing
> something, but it seems that solid wire would be more prone to breakage.
>
> Matt
> KK4CPS
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 11:33 AM, Herb Schoenbohm <herbs at vitelcom.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Wish we had a Lowes here in the VI but I will look and see if Home Depot
>> has a solid wire equivalent. They have THHN is stranded but I am not sure
>> about solid insulated #14 as i have not ever seen that.
>>
>> Herb, KV4FZ
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 6/26/2014 8:17 AM, Dave Heil wrote:
>>
>>> That seems a little too much work when Lowe's sells 500 foot spools of
>>> insulated #14 for $45.
>>>
>>> 73,
>>>
>>> Dave K8MN
>>>
>>> On 6/24/2014 19 46, Herb Schoenbohm wrote:
>>>
>>>> I found a great source for radial wire at home Depot where they have
>>>> 100' rolls of 14-2 packaged for under $40. Two conductors are
>>>> insulated
>>>> and one of course is not after the easy job of striping them across a
>>>> bench jig or simple having a second person hold a pocket knife while
>>>> you
>>>> pull the conductors apart you end up with 300 feet of higher quality
>>>> ground radial material. 2 each 100 foot insulated radials due to the
>>>> VF
>>>> are very close to 1/4 wave consideration and the the shorter 100 foot
>>>> bare doesn't hurt either. This of course brings up the issue of mixing
>>>> bare and insulated wire in any ground system so I use the bare
>>>> conductor
>>>> for other 80 and 40 verticals. Yet the sum of the three wires is
>>>> cheaper than buying them individually it seems.
>>>>
>>>
>>> _________________
>>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>>
>>
>> _________________
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2014 10:46:41 -0700
> From: "Richard (Rick) Karlquist" <richard at karlquist.com>
> To: Dave Heil <k8mn at frontiernet.net>, topband at contesting.com
> Subject: Re: Topband: Deployable radials for 80/160M
> Message-ID: <53AC5C81.6070908 at karlquist.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> On 6/26/2014 5:17 AM, Dave Heil wrote:
>> That seems a little too much work when Lowe's sells 500 foot spools of
>> insulated #14 for $45.
>
> Also try:
>
> www.interstatewire.com
>
> Rick N6RK
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2014 11:13:20 -0700
> From: Grant Saviers <grants2 at pacbell.net>
> To: "Richard (Rick) Karlquist" <richard at karlquist.com>, Dave Heil
> <k8mn at frontiernet.net>, topband at contesting.com
> Subject: Re: Topband: Deployable radials for 80/160M
> Message-ID: <53AC62C0.5030906 at pacbell.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> One issue not mentioned for radials on rather than in the ground, is the
> nylon outer sheath on THHN doesn't like UV, so after a year or two the
> snake sheds its skin and makes a mess. PVC just gets dry and cracks off
> the wire from UV, might take a couple more years for that to happen.
> Polyethylene is the best choice for covering if it can be found at a
> reasonable price, or stick with bare copper or my favorite, aluminum
> electric fence wire. For $50 1/2 mile of 17ga on Amazon. That's 40 66'
> radials. It is strong and if only down for the summer will last. Or
> just use new every year and recycle last years. You can't measure the
> gain change of conductivity of copper vs aluminum.
>
> Grant KZ1W
>
>
> On 6/26/2014 10:46 AM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist wrote:
>> On 6/26/2014 5:17 AM, Dave Heil wrote:
>>> That seems a little too much work when Lowe's sells 500 foot spools of
>>> insulated #14 for $45.
>>
>> Also try:
>>
>> www.interstatewire.com
>>
>> Rick N6RK
>> _________________
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2014 18:37:41 +0000 (UTC)
> From: mstangelo at comcast.net
> To: KK4CPS at gmail.com
> Cc: topband at contesting.com, herbs at vitelcom.net
> Subject: Re: Topband: Spam:************, Re: Deployable radials for
> 80/160M
> Message-ID:
> <79660497.19045035.1403807861794.JavaMail.root at comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Matt,
>
> I started using surplus stranded high temperature teflon coated wire for
> my radial system because I got it at a good price. It is flexible and easy
> to work with but I noticed that if the ends were not sealed of if there
> were breaks in the insulation it would soak up water via capillary action.
> I needed more wire to finish my 36 radial system so I decided to try 14
> gauge THHN insulated wire from Lowes. It is not as flexible but I should
> not have to worry about it absorbing water.
>
> Most of my radial system is in the wooded area of by property. I have some
> radials on the grassy area of my yard that I move in the summer. I use the
> solid wire for the permanent installation and the stranded wire for the
> seasonal installation.
>
>
>
> Mike N2MS
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Matthew King - KK4CPS <KK4CPS at gmail.com>
> To: herbs at vitelcom.net
> Cc: topband at contesting.com
> Sent: Thu, 26 Jun 2014 17:01:59 -0000 (UTC)
> Subject: Re: Topband: Spam:************, Re: Deployable radials for
> 80/160M
>
> Wouldn't stranded wire be preferred for such a use? Maybe I'm missing
> something, but it seems that solid wire would be more prone to breakage.
>
> Matt
> KK4CPS
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 11:33 AM, Herb Schoenbohm <herbs at vitelcom.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2014 14:54:25 -0600
> From: "Jim Garland" <4cx250b at miamioh.edu>
> To: <Topband at contesting.com>
> Subject: Topband: , Re: Deployable radials for 80/160M
> Message-ID: <00d501cf9180$d1c7b000$75571000$@miamioh.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Here in sunny NM, with nothing resembling grass, I just laid my sixty 120
> ft
> radials on the top of the desert. It's stranded 14 AWG with a brown THHN
> insulation that matches the dirt. I figure in a couple of years the
> insulation will pretty much be gone, and then it will just be bare copper.
> Ain't nobody going to be bothered by that except the coyotes. The antenna
> is 750 ft from my station, and fed with (buried) 50 ohm 1/2 inch CATV
> hardline.
>
> Don't know how Carl finds that cheap PTFE stranded wire. I wire all my
> homebrew projects with it, and am always on the lookout, but never see any
> at the local surplus places. Los Alamos National Labs is nearby but never
> seems to have any. I'm guessing they must use something else to wire up
> nuclear weapons.
>
> 73,
> Jim W8ZR
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2014 21:24:15 +0000
> From: Bill Wichers <billw at waveform.net>
> To: "<herbs at vitelcom.net>" <herbs at vitelcom.net>
> Cc: "topband at contesting.com" <topband at contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: Topband: Spam:************, Re: Deployable radials for
> 80/160M
> Message-ID: <255C2A20-78B3-42C6-BCB9-024E83A126B5 at waveform.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> You can get solid thhn. Some codes even require it, but it is much less
> common. I've seen Home Depot stock it before. Supply houses should
> definitely be able to get it.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jun 26, 2014, at 11:33 AM, "Herb Schoenbohm" <herbs at vitelcom.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Wish we had a Lowes here in the VI but I will look and see if Home Depot
>> has a solid wire equivalent. They have THHN is stranded but I am not sure
>> about solid insulated #14 as i have not ever seen that.
>>
>> Herb, KV4FZ
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 6/26/2014 8:17 AM, Dave Heil wrote:
>>> That seems a little too much work when Lowe's sells 500 foot spools of
>>> insulated #14 for $45.
>>>
>>> 73,
>>>
>>> Dave K8MN
>>>
>>> On 6/24/2014 19 46, Herb Schoenbohm wrote:
>>>> I found a great source for radial wire at home Depot where they have
>>>> 100' rolls of 14-2 packaged for under $40. Two conductors are
>>>> insulated
>>>> and one of course is not after the easy job of striping them across a
>>>> bench jig or simple having a second person hold a pocket knife while
>>>> you
>>>> pull the conductors apart you end up with 300 feet of higher quality
>>>> ground radial material. 2 each 100 foot insulated radials due to the
>>>> VF
>>>> are very close to 1/4 wave consideration and the the shorter 100 foot
>>>> bare doesn't hurt either. This of course brings up the issue of mixing
>>>> bare and insulated wire in any ground system so I use the bare
>>>> conductor
>>>> for other 80 and 40 verticals. Yet the sum of the three wires is
>>>> cheaper than buying them individually it seems.
>>>
>>> _________________
>>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>
>> _________________
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2014 21:27:57 +0000
> From: Bill Wichers <billw at waveform.net>
> To: Timo Korhonen <timo.korhonen at elisanet.fi>
> Cc: "topband at contesting.com" <topband at contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: Topband: Beverage feedline
> Message-ID: <18EEC82D-275C-4E48-ACAB-68213E98E367 at waveform.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> The copper clad steel center conductor won't make much difference in terms
> of loss on 160m. It is an issue if you will be powering Anything through
> the coax (like amps or antenna selection relays) since the dc resistance
> is higher.
>
> If you need solid copper center conductor rg6 you can get that too - its
> sold for satellite systems that run dc on the coax to power the LNB at the
> dish. It will generally be more expensive. Solid copper center conductor
> will be listed as type BC (bare copper) in the datasheets.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jun 26, 2014, at 11:12 AM, "Timo Korhonen" <timo.korhonen at elisanet.fi>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> We are putting up new beverages for 160/80 at OH5Z.
>> I have a question regarding the feedline. We have to make
>> quite long runs like 1500 feet.
>> When looking for a low cost 75 ohm coaxial I found a Belden
>> RG6 type cable which is reasonably priced.
>>
>> Here is a link for technical data
>>
>> http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/1733139.pdf
>>
>> This cable has a copper covered steel inner conductor.
>> Is this an issue on low frequency like 1.8 MHz with long runs like 1500
>> feet?
>>
>> Thanks for your help
>>
>> 73, Timo OG9X
>> oh5z.wordpress.com
>>
>> _________________
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2014 19:49:14 -0400 (EDT)
> From: k1zm--- via Topband <topband at contesting.com>
> To: billw at waveform.net, timo.korhonen at elisanet.fi
> Cc: topband at contesting.com
> Subject: Re: Topband: Beverage feedline
> Message-ID: <8D15FB05E6DDD5A-1CFC-18E27 at webmail-m226.sysops.aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> FWIW - Here at VY2ZM - I am running RG6 (standard stuff) out 3500 feet to
> a distant RX antenna on the other side of my property.
>
>
> I am also switching 12VDC down the line (using a BIAS Tee) - in order to
> switch the hybrid coupler from NE to SW - All of this is on 160M - so I
> think you will surely be OKAY with only 1500 feet of BELDEN RG6 at 160m.
>
>
> 73 JEFF, VY2ZM
>
>
>
> ---- Original Message ----
> From: Bill Wichers <billw at waveform.net>
> To: Timo Korhonen <timo.korhonen at elisanet.fi>
> Cc: topband <topband at contesting.com>
> Sent: Thu, Jun 26, 2014 9:28 pm
> Subject: Re: Topband: Beverage feedline
>
>
> The copper clad steel center conductor won't make much difference in terms
> of
> loss on 160m. It is an issue if you will be powering Anything through the
> coax
> (like amps or antenna selection relays) since the dc resistance is higher.
>
> If you need solid copper center conductor rg6 you can get that too - its
> sold
> for satellite systems that run dc on the coax to power the LNB at the
> dish. It
> will generally be more expensive. Solid copper center conductor will be
> listed
> as type BC (bare copper) in the datasheets.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jun 26, 2014, at 11:12 AM, "Timo Korhonen" <timo.korhonen at elisanet.fi>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> We are putting up new beverages for 160/80 at OH5Z.
>> I have a question regarding the feedline. We have to make
>> quite long runs like 1500 feet.
>> When looking for a low cost 75 ohm coaxial I found a Belden
>> RG6 type cable which is reasonably priced.
>>
>> Here is a link for technical data
>>
>> http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/1733139.pdf
>>
>> This cable has a copper covered steel inner conductor.
>> Is this an issue on low frequency like 1.8 MHz with long runs like 1500
>> feet?
>>
>> Thanks for your help
>>
>> 73, Timo OG9X
>> oh5z.wordpress.com
>>
>> _________________
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2014 18:05:38 -0700
> From: GALE STEWARD via Topband <topband at contesting.com>
> To: TopBand <topband at contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: Topband: FD in the 60's
> Message-ID:
> <1403831138.29108.YahooMailNeo at web121104.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Interesting thread!
>
> My first FD was in 1963 as a newly minted General. The group had all wire
> antennas set up top of Huntington Mt (PA). Most of the other guys were
> pretty much fone ops so I got a crack at 20 & 40 CW with a Collins S-line.
> Thought I was in radio heaven! The S-line was about 1000% better than what
> I had at home. No keyers, just a straight key and Vibroplex bug.
>
> I remember that 6M conditions were good. One of the ops had installed a 6M
> halo (remember those?) up in a tree on this mountain. I remember them
> working into KP4 with about 10W.
>
> Good memories!
>
>
> 73, Stew K3ND (ex K3ZOL)
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: "wa8wzg at wa8wzg.net" <wa8wzg at wa8wzg.net>
> To: TopBand <topband at contesting.com>
> Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2014 11:27 AM
> Subject: Topband: FD in the 60's
>
>
> Hot Springs, Ar, circa 1967,, Heathkit? SB-301 and SB-401 combo, dipoles
> all 5 bands,, Army surplus gen, 10kw diesel ,, on top of Red Mountain,,
> ,call was club call at the time , WA5BRF,, Big Red Flower,,, 15 years old
> and got my first taste of contesting and been hooked ever since,, !!?
> Thanks to all for bringing back some good memories!!
> Sent on the Sprint? Now Network from my BlackBerry?
> _________________
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2014 18:52:32 -0700
> From: Michael Tope <W4EF at dellroy.com>
> To: topband at contesting.com
> Subject: Re: Topband: Beverage feedline
> Message-ID: <53ACCE60.5050403 at dellroy.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Timo,
>
> According to ARRL's TLW program, your RF insertion loss for 1500ft of
> RG-6 cable should be around 7dB. This is based on Belden 8215 which uses
> a solid dielectric which makes it more lossy than your 1189A which is a
> foamed dielectric, but less lossy than 1189A because it uses a copper
> shield whereas 1189A uses an aluminum shield. These two opposing factors
> seems to balance out as TLW predicts about 10% greater loss for 8215
> than does the loss vs frequency table on the 1189A data sheet, so if
> anything 1500ft of 1189A at 1.8 MHz might be a bit better than the same
> length of 8215.
>
> If you want to run DC thru this cable to power a switch or pre-amp, the
> loop resistance (inner conductor + shield) for 1500ft will be around 49
> ohms. For a 100mA load that will be ~5 volts of drop between the source
> and load.
>
> FWIW, 1189A doesn't appear to be rated for outdoor use whereas 8215 is
> rated for direct burial. OTOH, 8215 uses an all copper shield so its
> probably very expensive compared to the aluminum shield cable (like
> 1189A) used by the CATV industry.
>
> I buy 1000' rolls of Commscope F660BEF Gel Coated Direct Bury RG6 from
> these guys for $48 US per roll (I think this is the same stuff
> recommended by W8JI):
>
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/CommScope-F660BEF-Direct-Burial-RG6-Cable-Flooded-Coaxial-Undeground-Gel-Coated-/160693197034?pt=US_Video_Cables_Adapters&hash=item256a0f98ea#shpCntId
>
> It looks like they ship to Finland if the overseas shipping doesn't
> raise the price too much (UPS shipping is $25 just to go a few miles
> from Phat's warehouse to my door here in Los Angeles). Perhaps there is
> a cableTV/satellite distributor closer to Finland with better terms.
>
> 73, Mike W4EF.............
>
> On 6/26/2014 8:12 AM, Timo Korhonen wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> We are putting up new beverages for 160/80 at OH5Z.
>> I have a question regarding the feedline. We have to make
>> quite long runs like 1500 feet.
>> When looking for a low cost 75 ohm coaxial I found a Belden
>> RG6 type cable which is reasonably priced.
>>
>> Here is a link for technical data
>>
>> http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/1733139.pdf
>>
>> This cable has a copper covered steel inner conductor.
>> Is this an issue on low frequency like 1.8 MHz with long runs like
>> 1500 feet?
>>
>> Thanks for your help
>>
>> 73, Timo OG9X
>> oh5z.wordpress.com
>>
>> _________________
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2014 09:57:45 -0400
> From: "Carl" <km1h at jeremy.mv.com>
> To: "Grant Saviers" <grants2 at pacbell.net>, <topband at contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: Topband: Deployable radials for 80/160M
> Message-ID: <1719A3EADD9644648AF0CE3598F53A3D at computer1>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=response
>
> Around here that wire gets pretty well corroded after a few years just in
> the air from acid rain and salt laden fog off the ocean 20-30 miles away.
>
> I wonder what that does to the conductivity? OTOH my yagi elements from a
> different alloy are still rather shiny after 30-40 years.
>
> THHN for wire antennas seems to hold up the PVC layer 10-15 years then
> becomes fodder for elevated radials.
>
> Carl
> KM1H
>
>
>
> Subject: Re: Topband: Deployable radials for 80/160M
>
>
>> One issue not mentioned for radials on rather than in the ground, is the
>> nylon outer sheath on THHN doesn't like UV, so after a year or two the
>> snake sheds its skin and makes a mess. PVC just gets dry and cracks off
>> the wire from UV, might take a couple more years for that to happen.
>> Polyethylene is the best choice for covering if it can be found at a
>> reasonable price, or stick with bare copper or my favorite, aluminum
>> electric fence wire. For $50 1/2 mile of 17ga on Amazon. That's 40 66'
>> radials. It is strong and if only down for the summer will last. Or
>> just use new every year and recycle last years. You can't measure the
>> gain change of conductivity of copper vs aluminum.
>>
>> Grant KZ1W
>>
>>
>> On 6/26/2014 10:46 AM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist wrote:
>>> On 6/26/2014 5:17 AM, Dave Heil wrote:
>>>> That seems a little too much work when Lowe's sells 500 foot spools of
>>>> insulated #14 for $45.
>>>
>>> Also try:
>>>
>>> www.interstatewire.com
>>>
>>> Rick N6RK
>>> _________________
>>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>>
>>
>> _________________
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>
>>
>> -----
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 2014.0.4592 / Virus Database: 3986/7753 - Release Date: 06/27/14
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2014 10:37:49 -0400
> From: "Carl" <km1h at jeremy.mv.com>
> To: "Bill Wichers" <billw at waveform.net>, "Timo Korhonen"
> <timo.korhonen at elisanet.fi>
> Cc: topband at contesting.com
> Subject: Re: Topband: Beverage feedline
> Message-ID: <E54BD3403B3D4D41BA59306BE2C7ADA8 at computer1>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> RG-6 with a CCS center conductor is all about the same as far as RF or DC
> loss is concerned. Figure on .35dB/100' at 2MHz.
>
> When I used 750' of RG-6 to feed the RCS-4 Beverage switch 25 years ago I
> had no problem with the switching. I also used a small preamp at times.
>
> That cable didnt last one winter before critters destroyed it and I ran
> .412" CATV hardline which was already pretty much obsolete. That is still
> in
> service and yearly tests show no additional loss which is .13dB/100'.
>
> The 1/2" 75 Ohm CATV hardline comes in a hair less at .09dB/100'. I use
> the
> 3/4" for transmitting on HF since it was the most used during the network
> construction and I was given huge amounts of partial to almost full reels
> when the installation contractors left for Indiana for their next
> job....real gypsies!
>
> I use 7/8 and 1" for VHF and up.
>
> Carl
> KM1H
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bill Wichers" <billw at waveform.net>
> To: "Timo Korhonen" <timo.korhonen at elisanet.fi>
> Cc: <topband at contesting.com>
> Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2014 5:27 PM
> Subject: Re: Topband: Beverage feedline
>
>
>> The copper clad steel center conductor won't make much difference in
>> terms
>> of loss on 160m. It is an issue if you will be powering Anything through
>> the coax (like amps or antenna selection relays) since the dc resistance
>> is higher.
>>
>> If you need solid copper center conductor rg6 you can get that too - its
>> sold for satellite systems that run dc on the coax to power the LNB at
>> the
>> dish. It will generally be more expensive. Solid copper center conductor
>> will be listed as type BC (bare copper) in the datasheets.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jun 26, 2014, at 11:12 AM, "Timo Korhonen" <timo.korhonen at elisanet.fi>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> We are putting up new beverages for 160/80 at OH5Z.
>>> I have a question regarding the feedline. We have to make
>>> quite long runs like 1500 feet.
>>> When looking for a low cost 75 ohm coaxial I found a Belden
>>> RG6 type cable which is reasonably priced.
>>>
>>> Here is a link for technical data
>>>
>>> http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/1733139.pdf
>>>
>>> This cable has a copper covered steel inner conductor.
>>> Is this an issue on low frequency like 1.8 MHz with long runs like 1500
>>> feet?
>>>
>>> Thanks for your help
>>>
>>> 73, Timo OG9X
>>> oh5z.wordpress.com
>>>
>>> _________________
>>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>> _________________
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>
>>
>> -----
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 2014.0.4592 / Virus Database: 3986/7753 - Release Date: 06/27/14
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2014 15:13:34 +0000 (UTC)
> From: mstangelo at comcast.net
> To: Carl <km1h at jeremy.mv.com>
> Cc: topband at contesting.com, Grant Saviers <grants2 at pacbell.net>
> Subject: Re: Topband: Deployable radials for 80/160M
> Message-ID:
> <1832929880.19769221.1403882014626.JavaMail.root at comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> One option for outdoor use Polyethelene PE covered wire.
>
> One good source is Dog Fence Wire:
>
> <http://www.ebay.com/itm/14-Gauge-Heavy-Duty-Superior-Pro-Dog-Fence-Wire-Solid-for-Invisible-Fence-/400264279386?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5d319c355a#ht_3626wt_1124>
>
> It is meant to be used outdoors but the price is higher than other
> alternatives.
>
> Mike N2MS
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Carl <km1h at jeremy.mv.com>
> To: Grant Saviers <grants2 at pacbell.net>, topband at contesting.com
> Sent: Fri, 27 Jun 2014 13:57:45 -0000 (UTC)
> Subject: Re: Topband: Deployable radials for 80/160M
>
> Around here that wire gets pretty well corroded after a few years just in
> the air from acid rain and salt laden fog off the ocean 20-30 miles away.
>
> I wonder what that does to the conductivity? OTOH my yagi elements from a
> different alloy are still rather shiny after 30-40 years.
>
> THHN for wire antennas seems to hold up the PVC layer 10-15 years then
> becomes fodder for elevated radials.
>
> Carl
> KM1H
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2014 11:16:44 -0400
> From: "Carl" <km1h at jeremy.mv.com>
> To: "Jim Garland" <4cx250b at miamioh.edu>, <Topband at contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: Topband: , Re: Deployable radials for 80/160M
> Message-ID: <30FAC4C9CF43426DBE79523B71DB6665 at computer1>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> This area still has a huge amount of electronics related industry. BAE and
> Raytheon included.
>
> When a military contract has been shipped the left overs get scrapped
> unlike
> a small commercial or research outfit where nothing is wasted.
>
> We also have a fair amount of business failures which adds to the surplus
> market.
>
> Carl
> KM1H
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim Garland" <4cx250b at miamioh.edu>
> To: <Topband at contesting.com>
> Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2014 4:54 PM
> Subject: Topband: , Re: Deployable radials for 80/160M
>
>
>> Here in sunny NM, with nothing resembling grass, I just laid my sixty 120
>> ft
>> radials on the top of the desert. It's stranded 14 AWG with a brown THHN
>> insulation that matches the dirt. I figure in a couple of years the
>> insulation will pretty much be gone, and then it will just be bare
>> copper.
>> Ain't nobody going to be bothered by that except the coyotes. The
>> antenna
>> is 750 ft from my station, and fed with (buried) 50 ohm 1/2 inch CATV
>> hardline.
>>
>> Don't know how Carl finds that cheap PTFE stranded wire. I wire all my
>> homebrew projects with it, and am always on the lookout, but never see
>> any
>> at the local surplus places. Los Alamos National Labs is nearby but never
>> seems to have any. I'm guessing they must use something else to wire up
>> nuclear weapons.
>>
>> 73,
>> Jim W8ZR
>>
>> _________________
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>
>>
>> -----
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 2014.0.4592 / Virus Database: 3986/7753 - Release Date: 06/27/14
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> End of Topband Digest, Vol 138, Issue 24
> ****************************************
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2014.0.4592 / Virus Database: 3986/7744 - Release Date: 06/25/14
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