Topband: Legality of Circumventing Commercial Maritime ISP Services??

[Mike Armstrong]

Herb, I don't disagree, especially with the Carib because I have so little sailing experience in those waters.  I am a PAC Sailor, when I am able.  Even in the Navy, I only did a single Med Cruise before switching to the Pacific for all further sea duty assignments.  So I am most familiar with that side.  I will say, honestly, that ALL of the Sailor I knew personally had licenses and most were higher class licensees as well...... Not that the higher class really means anything except that maybe they take the hobby as seriously as most of us do.  

However, like I said above, I don't dispute what you said..... There is no doubt that all sorts of piracy are occurring "out there."  Additionally, I agree some of those nets, like some of the 20 meter versions do, indeed, push the rules if not outright violate them.

From a personal point of view, though, I do take exception with governments.... ANY governments saying that a Sailor sending posit reports to someone who is tracking their progress cannot be done or is somehow "bad."  I know, I know.... territorial integrity and all that.... BUT (and this is a biggie) It is a safety afloat issue and, as we all know, when all else fails.... Amateur Radio!  I've been underway and had it happen that ham radio was IT!  It was the only thing working!  This is not a rare event, either.  It happens.  Especially in the Pacific, you are in a big, unmarked pool of water and having someone "flight following" is not only nice for me, the Sailor, to know..... but also my family or any other close person.  When safety is involved, especially when it can be life threatening (lack of posit and track info in a timely manner IS life threatening all by itself), I think ham radio is utterly appropriate as a vehicle for those comms.  Sailing to Fiji from San Diego isn't the same as taking your gps and going to the store..... as I am sure you would know.... considering where you live, especially.... :) :)

Again, I am not arguing about whether some Sailors are "pirates."  I am sure and certain there are... just like the cbers who "take over" 10 meters CW portion whenever the band has a decent opening. Not only are they not licensed.... they are using one of the widest bandwidth modes in our narrow bandwidth segment(s).  But that is a law enforcement issue, not an issue that should decide whether a LICENSED amateur radio operator should be able to utilize our "shared" resources/bands to pursue his/her "bliss" as long as what they are doing is legal (again, with the one caveat about safety of life, which "should" trump everything from an international law point of view...... but that is a subject that is way outside the realm of discussing whether the way we determine signal bandwidths and their appropriateness in this more "modern" digital day and age).  

I think we may be straying from the issue...... after all, those mailboxes and automated systems are already operating in the band segments they are permitted (for good or ill.... I think mostly good.... but I readily admit, I am prejudiced since I do use them when I am underway..... and sure as heck appreciate that I can report my posits and tracks to any interested party.... AND, additionally, have that same radio tune up the band a hair and there are 10 gajillion people waiting to hear my Mayday, if it were to ever occur).  I, like most of us in this reflector, use the radio for fun..... chasing DX, shooting the breeze with old and new friends, occasional traffic handling and other pursuits.  When I am underway, it takes on a new dimension..... and whether I am a miser or not has nothing to do with it.  It is one of several resources I have to get a "job" done, too..... one that I am allowed to do, both by the license I possess and any applicable laws.  I guarantee you that the majority of us (at least the Sailors I know personally... and that is a fair number of folks) use the radio legally, no matter where we are located.  I pull the "fuses" on my radios when I am getting into the territorial limits of a country we don't have a reciprocal agreement with.  Pulling the fuses on the mains going to the radios ensure, of course, that even an accidental push of the button won't turn something on "illegally."  I pull them in heavy weather, too..... But that is to prevent shorts if a rogue wave nails me in a storm.  Again, all the Sailors, who are hams, that  i know do the same..... ESPECIALLY with the ham gear.  

Anyway, that is my story and I am stickin' to it.  :) :)  I suspect, by the way, that you guys in the Carib get more than your fair share of the "nonsense," though for a coup,e of reasons.... the biggest one being, I would think, the Sailor population in that sea.  THAT is alot of sailing going on there.  I would question, too, the need to use the amateur bands for much because, quite frankly, landfall is never that far away.  Not that the radios shouldn't be aboard, but that if someone is using it to "do money making business," or even "volunteer business for a 501c," they are without an excuse in my opinion.  There is a HUGE difference between doing 5 knots and how long it will take til your next landfall in the Pacific and the same thing in the Carib.  Not that you should skirt the law just because you are in the Pacific, but anyone who understands the potential dangers of sailing that big ocean, can readily understand that a family won't want to wait a month til they hear where you are..... lol lol.  Yes  there are commercial services..... true.... they ARE costly..... but that isn't the issue with me, personally.... it is RELIABILITY.  I have only so much battery power and I need to get it done without wasting any power.  Quite frankly, most of those "expensive" services come nowhere close to the reliability of amateur radio..... ESPECIALLY in an emergency.  THAT is how good our "amateur" system are..... they really are THAT good.  I know..... when I have needed it, it has ALWAYS been there.  I cannot even come close to saying the same of INMARSAT, to name one, or any other "commercial/professional" service.  I kid you not!

Forgive me for this lengthy diatribe..... It is a great subject, but ai doubt too many of us are wanting to read this much about it.....he he he.  I'll do better on the next go.... if there is a next go :) :)

73s
Mike AB7ZU



Kuhi no ka lima, hele no ka maka

> On Mar 16, 2014, at 14:48, Herbert Schonbohm <herbert.schoenbohm at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Mike,
> 
> 
> The issue with "cruisers" using the ham bands is that so many are not even legally licensed or if they are have no permit to operate in the ports and harbors where they are visiting.  Most of the islands in the Eastern Caribbean do not permit third party traffic of any kind.  So the cruiser scofflaws falsely claim they are "Micky Mouse" to avoid suspicion.  Across the Caribbean island you can leave the territorial waters of one country and cross into the territorial waters of another.  When you hear amateurs in the states running a marine radio service on any band you normally hear a litany of illegal practices.  Just listen to the content of the phone patches and you will quickly see this is true.
> 
> When you follow the narrative on the link below you see that EL0BF is not a valid amateur license but rather a pirate call.  This raises another issue as the sale boat "Fiesty Lady" is a U.S. Registered vessel under the flag and laws of the U.S.  The mere idea of just self assigning an amateur sounding call for your sailing experiences is wrong.  But in this case we have someone who is not by his own admission in immediate danger but rather chooses to use amateur radio as his communications for a trans-Atlantic crossing.  This not only places him in peril for not having the proper communications equipment for such a journey but deprives him of a vast world wide system of marine communications on frequencies that are monitor by other boats that may be only a hour away.  IMHO amateur respecting their hobby must not be enablers of this nonsense.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Herb Schoenbohm, KV4FZ
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On 3/16/2014 12:13 PM, Michael St. Angelo wrote:
>> Dan,
>> 
>> If the traffic is limited to health and welfare informational messages to
>> family and friends I don't see any issue with cruisers using the ham bands.
>> 
>> It also depends on your interpretion of FCC Part 97.113.
>> 
>> Since we now have online buy and sell and trade services does this mean that
>> these activities are prohibited on the Ham Bands?
>> 
>> The same goes with mobile operation. Is this now prohibited since we can
>> communicate with cellphones?
>> 
>> I believe it is a carryover for the days of Maritime Coastal Stations
>> lobbying but those stations are gone.
>> 
>> Mike N2MS
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Dan White
>> Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2014 10:49 PM
>> To: topband at contesting.com
>> Subject: Topband: Legality of Circumventing Commercial Maritime ISP
>> Services??
>> 
>> 
>> Yachtsmen may be using amateur radio in order to avoid paying the fees for
>> more expensive maritime email systems, perhaps such as
>> http://www.sailmail.com/ , which charges an annual vessel fee of $250.
>> This is most certainly a "radio service".
>> 
>> Winlink on the other hand, operates under Part 97 of FCC Regulations.
>> They market themselves to boat owners for maritime use. See
>> http://www.winlink.org/node/233 for details.
>> 
>> My question is simple and legitimate. After reading FCC Part 97.113 which
>> deals with Prohibited Amateur Communications, the rules specifically state
>> routine communications are prohibited in cases where other radio services
>> are available. Are the yachtsmen using email servers operating within our
>> amateur spectrum in compliance with FCC Part 97.113?
>> 
>> FCC Part 97.113 a:  No amateur station shall transmit, (5)Communications, on
>> a regular basis, which could reasonably be furnished alternatively through
>> other radio services.
>> 
>> 73,
>> Dan
>> W5DNT
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