From topband at contesting.com  Wed Oct  1 08:15:50 2014
From: topband at contesting.com (rich kennedy via Topband)
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2014 05:15:50 -0700
Subject: Topband: 160M/80M Vertical - Using a capacity hat below a trap
Message-ID: <1412165750.39798.YahooMailNeo@web120103.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

I?m finalizing design for my 160M/80M shortened wire tree-mounted
vertical.  An Unadilla 80M trap will be
placed approx. 65? feet above the feedpoint; above the trap is another 20 feet
with a small cap hat.  An autotuner
handles the Z matching for the anticipated 500 watts on both bands.
 
QUESTION: Can one install a capacitive hat directly below
the 80M trap to help shorten the length of the 80M section?  For example, shortening the 80M radiator to
60? (from 65?) and making up ?the difference? with a capacity hat?  Any downside?
 
NOTE: Please omit suggestions about using a larger hat on
160M (sloping wires, etc.) ? I know that it is much more desirable, but that is
just not feasible here at K3VAT.
 
Thanks, 73, Rich, K3VAT

From w8uvz at voyager.net  Wed Oct  1 09:12:06 2014
From: w8uvz at voyager.net (George)
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2014 09:12:06 -0400
Subject: Topband: 160M/80M Vertical - Using a capacity hat below a trap
In-Reply-To: <1412165750.39798.YahooMailNeo@web120103.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <1412165750.39798.YahooMailNeo@web120103.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <57DC55CD7C7F48C49632D20094C4E63F@none1HP>

Rich,

The short answer should be Yes.

Our "Battle Creek Special" Vertical antenna, available as a loaner antenna, 
does that.  Usable on 40, 80 & 160 m, the vertical/inverted L antenna is 
trapped for 40 m, then at 48' for 80 m.  We simply added a wire for 
capacitive top loading wire as part of the guy just below the 80 m trap to 
resonate it on 3.5 mhz.  Works FB.

To finish the BCS, a horizontal wire is added above the 80 m trap to 
complete an "Inverted L" on 160 m.

Our BCS loaners have been in use for over 30 years and put out a respectable 
signal on the low bands.

73  George  W8UVZ

-----Original Message----- 
From: rich kennedy via Topband
Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2014 8:15 AM
To: topband at contesting.com
Subject: Topband: 160M/80M Vertical - Using a capacity hat below a trap

I?m finalizing design for my 160M/80M shortened wire tree-mounted
vertical.  An Unadilla 80M trap will be
placed approx. 65? feet above the feedpoint; above the trap is another 20 
feet
with a small cap hat.  An autotuner
handles the Z matching for the anticipated 500 watts on both bands.

QUESTION: Can one install a capacitive hat directly below
the 80M trap to help shorten the length of the 80M section?  For example, 
shortening the 80M radiator to
60? (from 65?) and making up ?the difference? with a capacity hat?  Any 
downside?

NOTE: Please omit suggestions about using a larger hat on
160M (sloping wires, etc.) ? I know that it is much more desirable, but that 
is
just not feasible here at K3VAT.

Thanks, 73, Rich, K3VAT
_________________
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband 


From km1h at jeremy.qozzy.com  Wed Oct  1 09:25:23 2014
From: km1h at jeremy.qozzy.com (Carl)
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2014 09:25:23 -0400
Subject: Topband: 160M/80M Vertical - Using a capacity hat below a trap
Message-ID: <50201DB1EE2F4E53AF18D40049D0D4FC@computer1>

I'll try this again as I used the wrong email to reply. km1h at jeremy.mv.com 
no longer exists.

Carl


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Carl" <km1h at jeremy.mv.com>
To: "rich kennedy" <astro_maryland at yahoo.com>; <topband at contesting.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2014 8:48 AM
Subject: Re: Topband: 160M/80M Vertical - Using a capacity hat below a trap


> Whatever is below the trap stays below and affects 80 only. You can add a 
> loading coil, hat, linear loading section, or whatever to shorten the 80M 
> portion and then add more wire or loading coil above the trap for 160.
> It wont take much of anything to make up just 5'.
>
> In more extreme cases realize that shortening increases losses and reduces 
> feed impedance plus efficiency which places more importance on the ground 
> system to keep overall losses tolerable; the hat has the least losses.
>
> Carl
> KM1H
>
>



> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "rich kennedy via Topband" <topband at contesting.com>
> To: <topband at contesting.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2014 8:15 AM
> Subject: Topband: 160M/80M Vertical - Using a capacity hat below a trap
>
>
>> I?m finalizing design for my 160M/80M shortened wire tree-mounted
>> vertical.  An Unadilla 80M trap will be
>> placed approx. 65? feet above the feedpoint; above the trap is another 20 
>> feet
>> with a small cap hat.  An autotuner
>> handles the Z matching for the anticipated 500 watts on both bands.
>>
>> QUESTION: Can one install a capacitive hat directly below
>> the 80M trap to help shorten the length of the 80M section?  For example, 
>> shortening the 80M radiator to
>> 60? (from 65?) and making up ?the difference? with a capacity hat?  Any 
>> downside?
>>
>> NOTE: Please omit suggestions about using a larger hat on
>> 160M (sloping wires, etc.) ? I know that it is much more desirable, but 
>> that is
>> just not feasible here at K3VAT.
>>
>> Thanks, 73, Rich, K3VAT
>> _________________
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>
>> -----
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 2014.0.4765 / Virus Database: 4025/8305 - Release Date: 10/01/14
>>
> 


From w8ji at w8ji.com  Wed Oct  1 11:12:33 2014
From: w8ji at w8ji.com (Tom W8JI)
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2014 11:12:33 -0400
Subject: Topband: 160M/80M Vertical - Using a capacity hat below a trap
References: <1412165750.39798.YahooMailNeo@web120103.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <0210884AA2ED4A4DA1B5EB8557751BC0@MAIN>

> I?m finalizing design for my 160M/80M shortened wire tree-mounted
> vertical.  An Unadilla 80M trap will be
> placed approx. 65? feet above the feedpoint; above the trap is another 20 
> feet
> with a small cap hat.  An autotuner
> handles the Z matching for the anticipated 500 watts on both bands.
>
> QUESTION: Can one install a capacitive hat directly below
> the 80M trap to help shorten the length of the 80M section?  For example, 
> shortening the 80M radiator to
> 60? (from 65?) and making up ?the difference? with a capacity hat?  Any 
> downside?


The only downside of adding capacitance below the trap is the chance of 
increasing capacitance across the trap and changing trap tuning. If you just 
keep the loading hat or wire away from the section above the trap, you 
minimize that effect.

You really want the trap slightly up out of the 80 meter band to minimize 
trap losses.

Almost anything can appear to work OK, but technically a trap of given 
components handles the least power and has the highest loss when it is at or 
very near resonance. If you did the trap resonance for 3.65 MHz, loss would 
peak and power capability would be minimum right around that frequency. The 
trap would have reduced loss and higher power rating as frequency moves away 
from 3.65.

The loading wire or hat below the trap actually can decrease loss and 
increase power rating of the system, so it isn't a bad idea if you also 
minimize coupling to the area above the trap.

73 Tom 


From mikewate at gmail.com  Fri Oct  3 03:58:42 2014
From: mikewate at gmail.com (Mike Waters)
Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2014 02:58:42 -0500
Subject: Topband: 160 GP Choke
In-Reply-To: <542ADDE4.4090705@audiosystemsgroup.com>
References: <81c66.13026761.415ae786@aol.com>
	<CA+FxYXgtdbbfYM+Zxs1iagiL7YBn+31BFeWCmvgpX1Xzw4e5yw@mail.gmail.com>
	<5429E0BF.4020108@audiosystemsgroup.com>
	<CA+FxYXjRZV_WLQdU6rTc4g8MRvkLUJpN_p7vwTw=APvSQDffLg@mail.gmail.com>
	<1962868760.573593.1412073738551.open-xchange@oxbe5.tb.mail.iss.local>
	<542ADDE4.4090705@audiosystemsgroup.com>
Message-ID: <CA+FxYXhobTVvYYdT5FRY7ysLhe2nXdpK_S7faFd++W353gXg1g@mail.gmail.com>

That is the design that I was originally going to use, except that I would
change it slightly because I use all 75 ohm coax. Anyway, what is the
advantage over one made with coax? Better bandwidth, I suppose?

I have your PDF printed and bound. I suppose that I should study it again.

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com

On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 11:44 AM, Jim Brown <jim at audiosystemsgroup.com>
wrote:

> ...  Measure out two 5 feet lengths of enameled wire. Tape them together
> (a single wrap of tape every 5 inches or so) and wind that pair of wires 16
> turns around a single core. Connect it at each end as a two-wire
> transmission line.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
> On Tue,9/30/2014 3:42 AM, Mark van Wijk wrote:
>
>>
>> Using 2x4 pcs FT240-31 it  might look something like this:
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/pa5mw/7870640836/in/set-72157640001358005
>>
>

From topband at contesting.com  Fri Oct  3 09:25:08 2014
From: topband at contesting.com (rich kennedy via Topband)
Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2014 13:25:08 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Topband: [Topband] 160M/80M Vertical - using a capacity hat below a
	trap
In-Reply-To: <mailman.23.1412179211.5999.topband@contesting.com>
References: <mailman.23.1412179211.5999.topband@contesting.com>
Message-ID: <312418542.91245.1412342708998.JavaMail.yahoo@jws10098.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Thanks to the following who responded to the below question:
George, W8UVZCarl, KM1HTom, W8JIRoger, N1RJ
73, Rich, K3VAT

-----Original Message----- 
From: rich kennedy via Topband
Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2014 8:15 AM
To: topband at contesting.com
Subject: Topband: 160M/80M Vertical - Using a capacity hat below a trap

Im finalizing design for my 160M/80M shortened wire tree-mounted?vertical.? An Unadilla 80M trap will be?placed approx. 65? feet above the feedpoint; above the trap is another 20 feet?with a small cap hat.? An autotuner?handles the Z matching for the anticipated 500 watts on both bands.

QUESTION: Can one install a capacitive hat directly below?the 80M trap to help shorten the length of the 80M section?? For example, shortening the 80M radiator to?60? (from 65?) and making up ?the difference? with a capacity hat?? Any 
downside?

NOTE: Please omit suggestions about using a larger hat on?160M (sloping wires, etc.) ? I know that it is much more desirable, but that?is?just not feasible here at K3VAT.

Thanks, 73, Rich, K3VAT
_________________
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband 


  

From w2gd at hotmail.com  Sat Oct  4 19:54:41 2014
From: w2gd at hotmail.com (John Crovelli)
Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2014 19:54:41 -0400
Subject: Topband: Needed:  HI-Z 4 Control Box
Message-ID: <BLU174-W403C0F09F2ED90770A76D589A70@phx.gbl>

Hi Topbanders!
Does one of you out there, who has upgraded from a HI-Z 4 to the HI-Z 8 have a spare or unneeded HI-Z 4 control box languishing in a corner or on a shelf?
I'm looking for a used HI-Z 4 control box.  
Please respond with condition, availability, etc. to W2GD at hotmail.com.  
Thanks and see you this 160 season.
73,
John W2GD/P40W 		 	   		  

From w2gd at hotmail.com  Sat Oct  4 23:02:33 2014
From: w2gd at hotmail.com (John Crovelli)
Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2014 23:02:33 -0400
Subject: Topband: Needed:  HI-Z 4 Control Box
In-Reply-To: <BLU174-W403C0F09F2ED90770A76D589A70@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU174-W403C0F09F2ED90770A76D589A70@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BLU174-W13DA2EDEDD63D26C57511C89A40@phx.gbl>

Hi Towertalkers!
Is there one of you out there who has upgraded their HI-Z 4 to the HI-Z 8 have a an unneeded HI-Z 4 control box languishing in a corner of the shack or on a shelf somewhere?
I'm looking for your surplus HI-Z 4 control box to complete a rebuild project.
Please respond with condition, availability, etc. to W2GD at hotmail.com.  
Thanks for the bandwidth and see everyone on 160 meters this contest season.
73,
John W2GD/P40W 		 	   		   		 	   		  

From jim at audiosystemsgroup.com  Mon Oct  6 04:29:47 2014
From: jim at audiosystemsgroup.com (Jim Brown)
Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2014 01:29:47 -0700
Subject: Topband: 160 GP Choke
In-Reply-To: <CA+FxYXhobTVvYYdT5FRY7ysLhe2nXdpK_S7faFd++W353gXg1g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <81c66.13026761.415ae786@aol.com>	<CA+FxYXgtdbbfYM+Zxs1iagiL7YBn+31BFeWCmvgpX1Xzw4e5yw@mail.gmail.com>	<5429E0BF.4020108@audiosystemsgroup.com>	<CA+FxYXjRZV_WLQdU6rTc4g8MRvkLUJpN_p7vwTw=APvSQDffLg@mail.gmail.com>	<1962868760.573593.1412073738551.open-xchange@oxbe5.tb.mail.iss.local>	<542ADDE4.4090705@audiosystemsgroup.com>
	<CA+FxYXhobTVvYYdT5FRY7ysLhe2nXdpK_S7faFd++W353gXg1g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <543252FB.9090805@audiosystemsgroup.com>

On Fri,10/3/2014 12:58 AM, Mike Waters wrote:
> That is the design that I was originally going to use, except that I would
> change it slightly because I use all 75 ohm coax. Anyway, what is the
> advantage over one made with coax? Better bandwidth, I suppose?

Yes, the advantages of THHN are better bandwidth, and a closer Zo match 
to a high dipole. Jerry Sevick wrote about Zo of parallel wire line 
chokes, and had established the Zo values I noted. Many years later, I 
wound some chokes and confirmed these values within the range of 
experimental error.

73, Jim K9YC

From mikewate at gmail.com  Mon Oct  6 05:38:01 2014
From: mikewate at gmail.com (Mike Waters)
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2014 04:38:01 -0500
Subject: Topband: 160 GP Choke
In-Reply-To: <543252FB.9090805@audiosystemsgroup.com>
References: <81c66.13026761.415ae786@aol.com>
	<CA+FxYXgtdbbfYM+Zxs1iagiL7YBn+31BFeWCmvgpX1Xzw4e5yw@mail.gmail.com>
	<5429E0BF.4020108@audiosystemsgroup.com>
	<CA+FxYXjRZV_WLQdU6rTc4g8MRvkLUJpN_p7vwTw=APvSQDffLg@mail.gmail.com>
	<1962868760.573593.1412073738551.open-xchange@oxbe5.tb.mail.iss.local>
	<542ADDE4.4090705@audiosystemsgroup.com>
	<CA+FxYXhobTVvYYdT5FRY7ysLhe2nXdpK_S7faFd++W353gXg1g@mail.gmail.com>
	<543252FB.9090805@audiosystemsgroup.com>
Message-ID: <CA+FxYXjo94GMUhMxV-K5tT=ApzMmenNuYuafuhT9WNB+9Nem7Q@mail.gmail.com>

And --as I remembered a few milliseconds after I replied-- only ONE core.
:-)

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com

On Mon, Oct 6, 2014 at 3:29 AM, Jim Brown <jim at audiosystemsgroup.com> wrote:

> On Fri,10/3/2014 12:58 AM, Mike Waters wrote:
>
>> That is the design that I was originally going to use, except that I would
>> change it slightly because I use all 75 ohm coax. Anyway, what is the
>> advantage over one made with coax? Better bandwidth, I suppose?
>>
>
> Yes, the advantages of THHN are better bandwidth, and a closer Zo match to
> a high dipole....
>

From clawsoncw at gmail.com  Tue Oct  7 11:36:23 2014
From: clawsoncw at gmail.com (Carl Clawson)
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2014 08:36:23 -0700
Subject: Topband: Help put Haiti on topband
Message-ID: <CABS7SRD9gGfTY7iHmqsrimW6jSgs+tjC0wNJEf9yH-CCq87jtA@mail.gmail.com>

Reprinted with permission from the Daily DX. Please help Dale however you
can.

73, Carl WS7L

N3BNA and friends are "definitely going to Haiti," and have acquired a
300-foot tower in The States they plan to ship down and build there.
Details are not finalized. Once the tower is up, there will be
concentration on working Europe on the low bands - past operations haven't
had enough tower height to have great antennas. Dale says he's looking for
operators too. Anyone interested may contact N3BNA or
haiti.friendship at gmail.com. The ARRL 160 Contest is an early goal, then
possibly the CQ 160 Contest. Operators are needed for the ARRL 160 Contest
and volunteers are needed for the tower project, including some technical
advice from guys who would like to help from back home. The 9-acre site is
half salt marsh, near the ocean. The 300-foot tower with complete radial
field will be for a popular Haitian Christian radio station that was
important in helping in the recent Haitian disaster relief efforts. The
station agreed to let the ham group use the tower if they would help get it
put up. The AM broadcast station would potentially be turned off during ham
contests! A tribander has been donated by JH5GHM. SteppIR has loaned a
BigIR vertical. Funds are needed for feedlines, with the tower 700 feet
from the transmitter building. $5,000 is also needed to ship the tower from
the US. The Haitian International Friendship Amateur Radio Club has been
set up as part of the effort. haiti-international-friendship-arc.org.  You
may also email them at haiti.friendship at gmail.com with support, comments or
inquiries of any kind. Dale emphasizes, "our biggest need is volunteers and
operators to join us."

From jim at audiosystemsgroup.com  Tue Oct  7 13:50:42 2014
From: jim at audiosystemsgroup.com (Jim Brown)
Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2014 10:50:42 -0700
Subject: Topband: Help put Haiti on topband
In-Reply-To: <CABS7SRD9gGfTY7iHmqsrimW6jSgs+tjC0wNJEf9yH-CCq87jtA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABS7SRD9gGfTY7iHmqsrimW6jSgs+tjC0wNJEf9yH-CCq87jtA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <543427F2.5050005@audiosystemsgroup.com>

On Tue,10/7/2014 8:36 AM, Carl Clawson wrote:
> there will be
> concentration on working Europe on the low bands

How about working W6? In 8 years, I'm missing Haiti on Topband.

73, Jim K9YC

From cx6vm.jorge at gmail.com  Tue Oct  7 14:03:07 2014
From: cx6vm.jorge at gmail.com (Jorge Diez - CX6VM)
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2014 16:03:07 -0200
Subject: Topband: Help put Haiti on topband
In-Reply-To: <543427F2.5050005@audiosystemsgroup.com>
References: <CABS7SRD9gGfTY7iHmqsrimW6jSgs+tjC0wNJEf9yH-CCq87jtA@mail.gmail.com>
	<543427F2.5050005@audiosystemsgroup.com>
Message-ID: <54342adc.d399340a.1719.437c@mx.google.com>

Hi Jim

I think you will have your QSO, not so far, just need to have someone
operating in HH and you ready at your station, very easy.

They say concentration on Europe as a far place, like most DXPedition that
they try hard to work the more difficult paths

N3BNA is a great guy, always trying to help so I think this is a good
opportunity to support this group

73,
Jorge
CX6VM/CW5W

-----Mensaje original-----
De: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces at contesting.com] En nombre de Jim Brown
Enviado el: martes, 07 de octubre de 2014 03:51 p.m.
Para: topband at contesting.com
Asunto: Re: Topband: Help put Haiti on topband

On Tue,10/7/2014 8:36 AM, Carl Clawson wrote:
> there will be
> concentration on working Europe on the low bands

How about working W6? In 8 years, I'm missing Haiti on Topband.

73, Jim K9YC
_________________
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


---
Este mensaje no contiene virus ni malware porque la protecci?n de avast! Antivirus est? activa.
http://www.avast.com


From lloydberg at charter.net  Tue Oct  7 14:03:46 2014
From: lloydberg at charter.net (Lloyd Berg N9LB)
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2014 14:03:46 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Topband: Help put Haiti on topband
Message-ID: <13f70b44.864be.148ebc801ce.Webtop.47@charter.net>

I'm in Wisconsin and I've never worked Haiti on topband either.
I believe there is a large stateside demand for HH on 160m.

73

Lloyd - N9LB


On Tue, Oct 7, 2014 at 12:50 PM, Jim Brown wrote:

> On Tue,10/7/2014 8:36 AM, Carl Clawson wrote:
>> there will be
>> concentration on working Europe on the low bands
>
> How about working W6? In 8 years, I'm missing Haiti on Topband.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

From k9fd at flex.com  Tue Oct  7 14:09:27 2014
From: k9fd at flex.com (Merv Schweigert)
Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2014 08:09:27 -1000
Subject: Topband: Help put Haiti on topband
In-Reply-To: <543427F2.5050005@audiosystemsgroup.com>
References: <CABS7SRD9gGfTY7iHmqsrimW6jSgs+tjC0wNJEf9yH-CCq87jtA@mail.gmail.com>
	<543427F2.5050005@audiosystemsgroup.com>
Message-ID: <54342C57.6030806@flex.com>

Same here,  seems most trips to that area only put receive antennas up
for EU or central USA,   that puts me on the side of the antenna or rear..
Many times I can copy them 579 to 599 and they are impossible to work,
listening to EU or ??
I realize there are not many stations out this way,  but its frustrating 
year
after year..   There usually are Vk, ZL, other pacific calling also with no
luck.
K9FD/KH6

> On Tue,10/7/2014 8:36 AM, Carl Clawson wrote:
>> there will be
>> concentration on working Europe on the low bands
>
> How about working W6? In 8 years, I'm missing Haiti on Topband.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>


From jim at audiosystemsgroup.com  Tue Oct  7 14:14:16 2014
From: jim at audiosystemsgroup.com (Jim Brown)
Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2014 11:14:16 -0700
Subject: Topband: Help put Haiti on topband
In-Reply-To: <54342adc.d399340a.1719.437c@mx.google.com>
References: <CABS7SRD9gGfTY7iHmqsrimW6jSgs+tjC0wNJEf9yH-CCq87jtA@mail.gmail.com>	<543427F2.5050005@audiosystemsgroup.com>
	<54342adc.d399340a.1719.437c@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <54342D78.7090908@audiosystemsgroup.com>

On Tue,10/7/2014 11:03 AM, Jorge Diez - CX6VM wrote:
> I think you will have your QSO, not so far, just need to have someone
> operating in HH and you ready at your station, very easy.

Not such an easy path to W6 -- it's 3,300 miles over land to my QTH near 
San Francisco. EU from HH is 4,200 - 5,000 miles, but over water.

73, Jim K9YC

From ns9i2016 at bayland.net  Tue Oct  7 14:17:25 2014
From: ns9i2016 at bayland.net (DGB)
Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2014 13:17:25 -0500
Subject: Topband: Help put Haiti on topband
In-Reply-To: <13f70b44.864be.148ebc801ce.Webtop.47@charter.net>
References: <13f70b44.864be.148ebc801ce.Webtop.47@charter.net>
Message-ID: <54342E35.3090409@Bayland.net>

I'm in Wisconsin too and hv them on every band but 6m. Right place at 
right time I guess. Now if another 150 other countries would show up on 
160, I'd be delighted!

73 Dwight NS9I

On 10/7/2014 1:03 PM, Lloyd Berg N9LB wrote:
> I'm in Wisconsin and I've never worked Haiti on topband either.
> I believe there is a large stateside demand for HH on 160m.
>
> 73
>
> Lloyd - N9LB
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 7, 2014 at 12:50 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
>
>> On Tue,10/7/2014 8:36 AM, Carl Clawson wrote:
>>> there will be
>>> concentration on working Europe on the low bands
>>
>> How about working W6? In 8 years, I'm missing Haiti on Topband.
>>
>> 73, Jim K9YC
>> _________________
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>


From cx6vm.jorge at gmail.com  Tue Oct  7 14:21:21 2014
From: cx6vm.jorge at gmail.com (Jorge Diez - CX6VM)
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2014 16:21:21 -0200
Subject: Topband: Help put Haiti on topband
In-Reply-To: <54342D78.7090908@audiosystemsgroup.com>
References: <CABS7SRD9gGfTY7iHmqsrimW6jSgs+tjC0wNJEf9yH-CCq87jtA@mail.gmail.com>	<543427F2.5050005@audiosystemsgroup.com>	<54342adc.d399340a.1719.437c@mx.google.com>
	<54342D78.7090908@audiosystemsgroup.com>
Message-ID: <54342f23.0721340a.662c.433d@mx.google.com>

Hopefully they can do very well, with a very big Tower and I wish some good
operators can join the group, this will allow for many QSO?s all around the
world.

73,
Jorge


-----Mensaje original-----
De: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces at contesting.com] En nombre de Jim Brown
Enviado el: martes, 07 de octubre de 2014 04:14 p.m.
Para: topband at contesting.com
Asunto: Re: Topband: Help put Haiti on topband

On Tue,10/7/2014 11:03 AM, Jorge Diez - CX6VM wrote:
> I think you will have your QSO, not so far, just need to have someone 
> operating in HH and you ready at your station, very easy.

Not such an easy path to W6 -- it's 3,300 miles over land to my QTH near San
Francisco. EU from HH is 4,200 - 5,000 miles, but over water.

73, Jim K9YC
_________________
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


---
Este mensaje no contiene virus ni malware porque la protecci?n de avast! Antivirus est? activa.
http://www.avast.com


From va3dx at sympatico.ca  Tue Oct  7 15:35:29 2014
From: va3dx at sympatico.ca (Glenn Wyant)
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2014 15:35:29 -0400
Subject: Topband: Help put Haiti on topband
References: <13f70b44.864be.148ebc801ce.Webtop.47@charter.net>
Message-ID: <BLU436-SMTP1442B8F305C1D2C2CB3E1C589A20@phx.gbl>


I have worked HH on 160  nine times since 1984

however since 1996 only one

In 2010 March I worked  HH4/K4QD

nothing since ..

Glenn VA3DX


: Tuesday, October 07, 2014 2:03 PM
Subject: Re: Topband: Help put Haiti on topband


> I'm in Wisconsin and I've never worked Haiti on topband either.
> I believe there is a large stateside demand for HH on 160m.
> 
> 73
> 
> Lloyd - N9LB


From clawsoncw at gmail.com  Tue Oct  7 15:50:23 2014
From: clawsoncw at gmail.com (Carl Clawson)
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2014 12:50:23 -0700
Subject: Topband: Help put Haiti on topband
In-Reply-To: <CABS7SRD9gGfTY7iHmqsrimW6jSgs+tjC0wNJEf9yH-CCq87jtA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABS7SRD9gGfTY7iHmqsrimW6jSgs+tjC0wNJEf9yH-CCq87jtA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABS7SRBXdv=V33w=P4J=7LuGEZuFiYiJePNNOsk1r1-iDgrhyQ@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks to all for the comments. I will pass them along to Dale, who is not
on the reflector at this time.

(I need HH on 160 too!)

73, Carl WS7L

From tshoppa at gmail.com  Tue Oct  7 15:56:40 2014
From: tshoppa at gmail.com (Tim Shoppa)
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2014 15:56:40 -0400
Subject: Topband: Help put Haiti on topband
In-Reply-To: <CABS7SRD9gGfTY7iHmqsrimW6jSgs+tjC0wNJEf9yH-CCq87jtA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABS7SRD9gGfTY7iHmqsrimW6jSgs+tjC0wNJEf9yH-CCq87jtA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJ_qRvbORmBiusdM3fAZ+PiNHLWy1yu8tpc-Tg11_2w3a1czWw@mail.gmail.com>

Is KC0W still planning to be in Haiti on low bands this winter?

I think N5JR and a PY have been there on 160M in 2014 so far this year too
(I worked them other bands but not 160)

Tim N3QE


On Tue, Oct 7, 2014 at 11:36 AM, Carl Clawson <clawsoncw at gmail.com> wrote:

> Reprinted with permission from the Daily DX. Please help Dale however you
> can.
>
> 73, Carl WS7L
>
> N3BNA and friends are "definitely going to Haiti," and have acquired a
> 300-foot tower in The States they plan to ship down and build there.
> Details are not finalized. Once the tower is up, there will be
> concentration on working Europe on the low bands - past operations haven't
> had enough tower height to have great antennas. Dale says he's looking for
> operators too. Anyone interested may contact N3BNA or
> haiti.friendship at gmail.com. The ARRL 160 Contest is an early goal, then
> possibly the CQ 160 Contest. Operators are needed for the ARRL 160 Contest
> and volunteers are needed for the tower project, including some technical
> advice from guys who would like to help from back home. The 9-acre site is
> half salt marsh, near the ocean. The 300-foot tower with complete radial
> field will be for a popular Haitian Christian radio station that was
> important in helping in the recent Haitian disaster relief efforts. The
> station agreed to let the ham group use the tower if they would help get it
> put up. The AM broadcast station would potentially be turned off during ham
> contests! A tribander has been donated by JH5GHM. SteppIR has loaned a
> BigIR vertical. Funds are needed for feedlines, with the tower 700 feet
> from the transmitter building. $5,000 is also needed to ship the tower from
> the US. The Haitian International Friendship Amateur Radio Club has been
> set up as part of the effort. haiti-international-friendship-arc.org.  You
> may also email them at haiti.friendship at gmail.com with support, comments
> or
> inquiries of any kind. Dale emphasizes, "our biggest need is volunteers and
> operators to join us."
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>

From dale.long at prodigy.net  Tue Oct  7 23:50:46 2014
From: dale.long at prodigy.net (DALE LONG)
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2014 20:50:46 -0700
Subject: Topband: Help put Haiti on topband
In-Reply-To: <54342C57.6030806@flex.com>
References: <CABS7SRD9gGfTY7iHmqsrimW6jSgs+tjC0wNJEf9yH-CCq87jtA@mail.gmail.com>	<543427F2.5050005@audiosystemsgroup.com>
	<54342C57.6030806@flex.com>
Message-ID: <1412740246.1140.YahooMailNeo@web184306.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>



Hi Merv:

We will try to look for everyone.  Most previous operations had limited antennas.  We should have pretty effective antennas.  QRM will be a problem.  RX antenna will not be to EU or USA, they will be AWAY FROM THE WORST NOISE SOURCES

73

Dale- N3BNA


>________________________________
> From: Merv Schweigert <k9fd at flex.com>
>To: topband at contesting.com 
>Sent: Tuesday, October 7, 2014 2:09 PM
>Subject: Re: Topband: Help put Haiti on topband
> 
>
>Same here,  seems most trips to that area only put receive antennas up
>for EU or central USA,   that puts me on the side of the antenna or rear..
>Many times I can copy them 579 to 599 and they are impossible to work,
>listening to EU or ??
>I realize there are not many stations out this way,  but its frustrating 
>year
>after year..   There usually are Vk, ZL, other pacific calling also with no
>luck.
>K9FD/KH6
>
>> On Tue,10/7/2014 8:36 AM, Carl Clawson wrote:
>>> there will be
>>> concentration on working Europe on the low bands
>>
>> How about working W6? In 8 years, I'm missing Haiti on Topband.
>>
>> 73, Jim K9YC
>> _________________
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>
>
>_________________
>Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
>
>

From nodir.ey8mm at gmail.com  Wed Oct  8 00:31:47 2014
From: nodir.ey8mm at gmail.com (Nodir Tursoon-Zadeh)
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2014 09:31:47 +0500
Subject: Topband: Help put Haiti on topband
In-Reply-To: <1412740246.1140.YahooMailNeo@web184306.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <CABS7SRD9gGfTY7iHmqsrimW6jSgs+tjC0wNJEf9yH-CCq87jtA@mail.gmail.com>
	<543427F2.5050005@audiosystemsgroup.com>
	<54342C57.6030806@flex.com>
	<1412740246.1140.YahooMailNeo@web184306.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAFFNAbgJR=9GEEYg2yQjPkEG_ifmhDxCbN3Vb6dB=-0TWDZ_=A@mail.gmail.com>

For Central Asia - 12,500 km and polar pass.Very short time of common
darkness. That would be a real challenge. No chances unless direct calls
for Asia on our greyline.

It will be a great fight! :)

73,

-- 



Regards,

Nodir Tursoon-Zadeh
EY8MM
http://www.ey8mm.com/



On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 8:50 AM, DALE LONG <dale.long at prodigy.net> wrote:

>
>
> Hi Merv:
>
> We will try to look for everyone.  Most previous operations had limited
> antennas.  We should have pretty effective antennas.  QRM will be a
> problem.  RX antenna will not be to EU or USA, they will be AWAY FROM THE
> WORST NOISE SOURCES
>
> 73
>
> Dale- N3BNA
>
>
>

From n5ia at zia-connection.com  Wed Oct  8 21:39:19 2014
From: n5ia at zia-connection.com (Milt -- N5IA)
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2014 18:39:19 -0700
Subject: Topband: TX relays
Message-ID: <FFB95A23BD754472A72871BCEBA7ACDD@MiltVostro2010>


What make and model of DPDT relays are you using in your TX arrays?

What are your sources?

I am looking for some 12 VDC units that are capable of handling full legal limit power to install in a controller for a multi-element directive array.

Thanks in advance for any and all suggestions.

73 de Milt, N5IA


-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2014.0.4765 / Virus Database: 4040/8351 - Release Date: 10/08/14

From richard at karlquist.com  Wed Oct  8 22:25:36 2014
From: richard at karlquist.com (Richard (Rick) Karlquist)
Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2014 19:25:36 -0700
Subject: Topband: TX relays
In-Reply-To: <FFB95A23BD754472A72871BCEBA7ACDD@MiltVostro2010>
References: <FFB95A23BD754472A72871BCEBA7ACDD@MiltVostro2010>
Message-ID: <5435F220.2080403@karlquist.com>

On 10/8/2014 6:39 PM, Milt -- N5IA wrote:
>
> What make and model of DPDT relays are you using in your TX arrays?

> 73 de Milt, N5IA
>

I have had good luck with the Omron MJN series,
available from Mouser.  They are rated at 20A,
600VAC, and those ratings are for hot switching,
which you are obviously not going to do.  I use
them to switch in tuning capacitors in series with
my 80 meter inverted vee cloud warmer to tune it
around the band.  The relays see a lot of voltage
in this application especially at the high end
of the band.

I recently bought a used commercial 4-square phasing box
and it appears to also use these relays.  GMTA as they
say...

Rick N6RK

From k3lr at k3lr.com  Wed Oct  8 22:27:04 2014
From: k3lr at k3lr.com (Tim Duffy)
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2014 22:27:04 -0400
Subject: Topband: TX relays
In-Reply-To: <FFB95A23BD754472A72871BCEBA7ACDD@MiltVostro2010>
References: <FFB95A23BD754472A72871BCEBA7ACDD@MiltVostro2010>
Message-ID: <E6F0CC56C7BB4653ADC918C8779636EB@laptop>

Hello Milt:

I have used these relays in my TX arrays for almost 30 years. 
No failures so far.

http://www.dxengineering.com/search/product-line/comtek-four-square-hybrid-r
eplacement-relays?tw=relay&sw=COMTEK%20Four-Square%20Hybrid%20Replacement%20
Relays

Yes, I work at DX Engineering - and yes I stand behind (and use this stuff
at K3LR) what we sell.

73,
Tim K3LR

-----Original Message-----
From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Milt --
N5IA
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2014 9:39 PM
To: topband at contesting.com
Subject: Topband: TX relays


What make and model of DPDT relays are you using in your TX arrays?

What are your sources?

I am looking for some 12 VDC units that are capable of handling full legal
limit power to install in a controller for a multi-element directive array.

Thanks in advance for any and all suggestions.

73 de Milt, N5IA


-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2014.0.4765 / Virus Database: 4040/8351 - Release Date: 10/08/14
_________________
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


From na4m at suddenlink.net  Wed Oct  8 23:03:36 2014
From: na4m at suddenlink.net (Phil Duff)
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2014 03:03:36 +0000
Subject: Topband: TX relays
In-Reply-To: <FFB95A23BD754472A72871BCEBA7ACDD@MiltVostro2010>
References: <FFB95A23BD754472A72871BCEBA7ACDD@MiltVostro2010>
Message-ID: <173D641C-E961-44EA-BF40-B8BB828C417C@suddenlink.net>

Array Solutions has these:

http://www.arraysolutions.com/Products/rf_relays.htm#top of page

de NA4M


On Oct 9, 2014, at 1:39 AM, "Milt -- N5IA" <n5ia at zia-connection.com> wrote:

> 
> What make and model of DPDT relays are you using in your TX arrays?
> 
> What are your sources?
> 
> I am looking for some 12 VDC units that are capable of handling full legal limit power to install in a controller for a multi-element directive array.
> 
> Thanks in advance for any and all suggestions.
> 
> 73 de Milt, N5IA

-. .- ?.- --
Phil Duff          na4m[at]suddenlink.net










From richard at karlquist.com  Wed Oct  8 23:04:22 2014
From: richard at karlquist.com (Richard (Rick) Karlquist)
Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2014 20:04:22 -0700
Subject: Topband: TX relays
In-Reply-To: <5435F220.2080403@karlquist.com>
References: <FFB95A23BD754472A72871BCEBA7ACDD@MiltVostro2010>
	<5435F220.2080403@karlquist.com>
Message-ID: <5435FB36.3010801@karlquist.com>



On 10/8/2014 7:25 PM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist wrote:

> I have had good luck with the Omron MJN series,
> available from Mouser.  They are rated at 20A,

These are also available here:

http://www.arraysolutions.com/Products/rf_relays.htm#top%20of%20page

I DON'T work for this vendor.

Rick N6RK

From t.b.tinge at gmail.com  Thu Oct  9 03:23:04 2014
From: t.b.tinge at gmail.com (Thomas PA1M)
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2014 09:23:04 +0200
Subject: Topband: TX relays
In-Reply-To: <5435FB36.3010801@karlquist.com>
References: <FFB95A23BD754472A72871BCEBA7ACDD@MiltVostro2010>
	<5435F220.2080403@karlquist.com> <5435FB36.3010801@karlquist.com>
Message-ID: <CAHeGVgqKPgGsWBvB1d0B7kv+BeD1R47w24qMaFObYHWgii3Enw@mail.gmail.com>

We used to use VSB-12STB from Fujitsu (but not available anymore)
These relays are also used in devices from some (large) vendors.

As they are not available anymore we changed to the Fujitsu FTR-K1CK012W
(same ratings).
? 1,70 Euro (just over 2 dollar each) at Conrad.
https://www.conrad.nl/nl/voedingsrelais-ftr-k1-fujitsu-ftr-k1ck012w-12-vdc-1-x-omschakelcontact-504384.html
.

Also at Mouser.
http://nl.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Fujitsu/FTR-K1CK012W/?qs=MnnQ62GSWuGT8SsT9Q9STg%3D%3D


73'Thomas
PA1M

2014-10-09 5:04 GMT+02:00 Richard (Rick) Karlquist <richard at karlquist.com>:

>
>
> On 10/8/2014 7:25 PM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist wrote:
>
>  I have had good luck with the Omron MJN series,
>> available from Mouser.  They are rated at 20A,
>>
>
> These are also available here:
>
> http://www.arraysolutions.com/Products/rf_relays.htm#top%20of%20page
>
> I DON'T work for this vendor.
>
>
> Rick N6RK
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>

From mikewate at gmail.com  Thu Oct  9 06:19:01 2014
From: mikewate at gmail.com (Mike Waters)
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2014 05:19:01 -0500
Subject: Topband: TX relays
In-Reply-To: <CAHeGVgqKPgGsWBvB1d0B7kv+BeD1R47w24qMaFObYHWgii3Enw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <FFB95A23BD754472A72871BCEBA7ACDD@MiltVostro2010>
	<5435F220.2080403@karlquist.com> <5435FB36.3010801@karlquist.com>
	<CAHeGVgqKPgGsWBvB1d0B7kv+BeD1R47w24qMaFObYHWgii3Enw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+FxYXiEw60DG0-RTUvmjDL8H-rvWcEddtrcNsmLLqG1mxcsfA@mail.gmail.com>

This relay looks exactly what I was looking for to remote-switch my 160m
inverted-L to other bands, because it will withstand a lot of voltage. From
the PDF:

High insulation
Insulation distance (between coil and contacts): 10mm min.
Dielectric strength: 5KV
Surge strength: 10KV

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com

On Thu, Oct 9, 2014 at 2:23 AM, Thomas PA1M <t.b.tinge at gmail.com> wrote:

>  Fujitsu FTR-K1CK012W
>

From cx6vm.jorge at gmail.com  Thu Oct  9 07:37:10 2014
From: cx6vm.jorge at gmail.com (Jorge Diez - CX6VM)
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2014 09:37:10 -0200
Subject: Topband: TX relays
In-Reply-To: <E6F0CC56C7BB4653ADC918C8779636EB@laptop>
References: <FFB95A23BD754472A72871BCEBA7ACDD@MiltVostro2010>
	<E6F0CC56C7BB4653ADC918C8779636EB@laptop>
Message-ID: <54367364.e305340a.3d96.ffff8e10@mx.google.com>

Hi Tim

This are the same relay used in the DXE TFS4 4SQ systems?

73,
Jorge
CX6VM/CW5W


-----Mensaje original-----
De: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces at contesting.com] En nombre de Tim Duffy
Enviado el: jueves, 09 de octubre de 2014 12:27 a.m.
Para: 'Milt -- N5IA'; topband at contesting.com
Asunto: Re: Topband: TX relays

Hello Milt:

I have used these relays in my TX arrays for almost 30 years. 
No failures so far.

http://www.dxengineering.com/search/product-line/comtek-four-square-hybrid-r
eplacement-relays?tw=relay&sw=COMTEK%20Four-Square%20Hybrid%20Replacement%20
Relays

Yes, I work at DX Engineering - and yes I stand behind (and use this stuff
at K3LR) what we sell.

73,
Tim K3LR

-----Original Message-----
From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Milt --
N5IA
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2014 9:39 PM
To: topband at contesting.com
Subject: Topband: TX relays


What make and model of DPDT relays are you using in your TX arrays?

What are your sources?

I am looking for some 12 VDC units that are capable of handling full legal
limit power to install in a controller for a multi-element directive array.

Thanks in advance for any and all suggestions.

73 de Milt, N5IA


-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2014.0.4765 / Virus Database: 4040/8351 - Release Date: 10/08/14
_________________ Topband Reflector Archives -
http://www.contesting.com/_topband

_________________
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


---
Este mensaje no contiene virus ni malware porque la protecci?n de avast! Antivirus est? activa.
http://www.avast.com


From k3lr at k3lr.com  Thu Oct  9 08:47:22 2014
From: k3lr at k3lr.com (Tim Duffy)
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2014 08:47:22 -0400
Subject: Topband: TX relays
In-Reply-To: <54367364.e305340a.3d96.ffff8e10@mx.google.com>
References: <FFB95A23BD754472A72871BCEBA7ACDD@MiltVostro2010>
	<E6F0CC56C7BB4653ADC918C8779636EB@laptop>
	<54367364.e305340a.3d96.ffff8e10@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <38C6ECAF7CA8457990F7D9CF470B5AFB@laptop>

Hello Jorge,

No. Here is the relay in the DXE TFS4. This relay another good choice for TX
array building.

http://www.dxengineering.com/parts/dxe-rly-hp

73,
Tim K3LR


-----Original Message-----
From: Jorge Diez - CX6VM [mailto:cx6vm.jorge at gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2014 7:37 AM
To: k3lr at k3lr.com; topband at contesting.com
Subject: RE: Topband: TX relays

Hi Tim

This are the same relay used in the DXE TFS4 4SQ systems?

73,
Jorge
CX6VM/CW5W


-----Original Message-----
From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Milt --
N5IA
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2014 9:39 PM
To: topband at contesting.com
Subject: Topband: TX relays


What make and model of DPDT relays are you using in your TX arrays?

What are your sources?

I am looking for some 12 VDC units that are capable of handling full legal
limit power to install in a controller for a multi-element directive array.

Thanks in advance for any and all suggestions.

73 de Milt, N5IA


-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2014.0.4765 / Virus Database: 4040/8351 - Release Date: 10/08/14
_________________ Topband Reflector Archives -
http://www.contesting.com/_topband

_________________
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


---
Este mensaje no contiene virus ni malware porque la protecci?n de avast!
Antivirus est? activa.
http://www.avast.com


From tshoppa at gmail.com  Thu Oct  9 08:57:23 2014
From: tshoppa at gmail.com (Tim Shoppa)
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2014 08:57:23 -0400
Subject: Topband: TX relays
In-Reply-To: <CA+FxYXiEw60DG0-RTUvmjDL8H-rvWcEddtrcNsmLLqG1mxcsfA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <FFB95A23BD754472A72871BCEBA7ACDD@MiltVostro2010>
	<5435F220.2080403@karlquist.com> <5435FB36.3010801@karlquist.com>
	<CAHeGVgqKPgGsWBvB1d0B7kv+BeD1R47w24qMaFObYHWgii3Enw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+FxYXiEw60DG0-RTUvmjDL8H-rvWcEddtrcNsmLLqG1mxcsfA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJ_qRvayo7AznV9Z=USMA1D6PAg3_BnqGAb18EpULqaK8VCc1Q@mail.gmail.com>

Mike, I would be concerned about using these small relays for non-resonant
antenna switching where the impedance at the switch point may be wildly
away from 50 ohms.

This is the relay I use to switch tuning networks at non-50-ohm points:

http://www.deltrol-controls.com/products/relays/power-relays/900

Deltrol is the brand you get if you order from McMaster-Carr but all the
big relay manufacturers sell these open frame relays.

I also bend the relay contacts for wider spacing as recommended by N6RK in
QST (page 66, May 2009 QST Hints and Kinks, "Increasing Relay Voltage
Handling"). Open contact gap of 0.5 inches is readily achievable.

Tim N3QE


On Thu, Oct 9, 2014 at 6:19 AM, Mike Waters <mikewate at gmail.com> wrote:

> This relay looks exactly what I was looking for to remote-switch my 160m
> inverted-L to other bands, because it will withstand a lot of voltage. From
> the PDF:
>
> High insulation
> Insulation distance (between coil and contacts): 10mm min.
> Dielectric strength: 5KV
> Surge strength: 10KV
>
> 73, Mike
> www.w0btu.com
>
> On Thu, Oct 9, 2014 at 2:23 AM, Thomas PA1M <t.b.tinge at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >  Fujitsu FTR-K1CK012W
> >
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>

From w8ji at w8ji.com  Thu Oct  9 09:46:22 2014
From: w8ji at w8ji.com (Tom W8JI)
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2014 09:46:22 -0400
Subject: Topband: TX relays
References: <FFB95A23BD754472A72871BCEBA7ACDD@MiltVostro2010><5435F220.2080403@karlquist.com>
	<5435FB36.3010801@karlquist.com><CAHeGVgqKPgGsWBvB1d0B7kv+BeD1R47w24qMaFObYHWgii3Enw@mail.gmail.com><CA+FxYXiEw60DG0-RTUvmjDL8H-rvWcEddtrcNsmLLqG1mxcsfA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJ_qRvayo7AznV9Z=USMA1D6PAg3_BnqGAb18EpULqaK8VCc1Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8D108BABF4554851BE1271F315F70401@MAIN>

Because there are many things that go into relay selection that do not show 
on a data sheet, I always dissect and test relays.

I have found 30 amp power relays that overheat at 5 amps at 28 MHz, and 
relays that have high contact voltage ratings that make the pole inside the 
coil hot with full RF. They wind up with 20-30 pF capacitance from armature 
to coil.

Another issue is resistance and reliability at near zero contact voltage 
when receiving. This is probably the single biggest relay issue in our 
applications. A small bifurcated contact relay is better for receive 
reliability, and a high current hot switch design is by far the worse for 
receive reliability.

One particularly troublesome high power area for current are the relay 
internal leads, and the contact support bar materials. The things that make 
the wires and contact bars last a long time in repeated cycles create very 
high radio frequency resistances. This is why some large 30 amp power relays 
will discolor contacts or melt insulation at several amps on higher 
frequencies.

The same thing applies to contacts. Contact materials and platings that 
optimize hot switching create RF resistance and low level signal connection 
issues.  A gold flash on a soft contact, for example, is excellent for 
receive but will instantly deteriorate if hot switched at more than a few 
hundred milliamperes or with an inductive load. It might handle 20 amps of 
closed contact RF current, but only be rated for a few amps of hot switching 
current. In contrast, a silver cadmium oxide contact can take tons of hot 
switch voltage and current, but is lousy for relay receive pass through.

Contact support bars, and the wires used in some relays, can also be very 
problematic. This is because the materials and any weave in wires is 
designed for flexibility. Alloys and construction that improves mechanical 
cycle life greatly reduces RF performance.

 > Mike, I would be concerned about using these small relays for 
non-resonant
> antenna switching where the impedance at the switch point may be wildly
> away from 50 ohms.
>
> This is the relay I use to switch tuning networks at non-50-ohm points:
>
> http://www.deltrol-controls.com/products/relays/power-relays/900
>
> Deltrol is the brand you get if you order from McMaster-Carr but all the
> big relay manufacturers sell these open frame relays.
>
> I also bend the relay contacts for wider spacing as recommended by N6RK in
> QST (page 66, May 2009 QST Hints and Kinks, "Increasing Relay Voltage
> Handling"). Open contact gap of 0.5 inches is readily achievable.
>
> Tim N3QE
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 9, 2014 at 6:19 AM, Mike Waters <mikewate at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> This relay looks exactly what I was looking for to remote-switch my 160m
>> inverted-L to other bands, because it will withstand a lot of voltage. 
>> From
>> the PDF:
>>
>> High insulation
>> Insulation distance (between coil and contacts): 10mm min.
>> Dielectric strength: 5KV
>> Surge strength: 10KV
>>
>> 73, Mike
>> www.w0btu.com
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 9, 2014 at 2:23 AM, Thomas PA1M <t.b.tinge at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >  Fujitsu FTR-K1CK012W
>> >
>> _________________
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2014.0.4765 / Virus Database: 4037/8351 - Release Date: 10/08/14
> 


From km1h at jeremy.qozzy.com  Thu Oct  9 11:31:44 2014
From: km1h at jeremy.qozzy.com (Carl)
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2014 11:31:44 -0400
Subject: Topband: TX relays
References: <FFB95A23BD754472A72871BCEBA7ACDD@MiltVostro2010><E6F0CC56C7BB4653ADC918C8779636EB@laptop><54367364.e305340a.3d96.ffff8e10@mx.google.com>
	<38C6ECAF7CA8457990F7D9CF470B5AFB@laptop>
Message-ID: <008B18B415BA40CAB626BA133F63B157@computer1>

So what is the actual manufacturers catalog number....or is that just 
another DXE secret?
Since not everyone has DXE products an easy to source item would be 
beneficial to the ham community.

Carl
KM1H


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tim Duffy" <k3lr at k3lr.com>
To: "'Jorge Diez - CX6VM'" <cx6vm.jorge at gmail.com>; <topband at contesting.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2014 8:47 AM
Subject: Re: Topband: TX relays


Hello Jorge,

No. Here is the relay in the DXE TFS4. This relay another good choice for TX
array building.

http://www.dxengineering.com/parts/dxe-rly-hp

73,
Tim K3LR


-----Original Message-----
From: Jorge Diez - CX6VM [mailto:cx6vm.jorge at gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2014 7:37 AM
To: k3lr at k3lr.com; topband at contesting.com
Subject: RE: Topband: TX relays

Hi Tim

This are the same relay used in the DXE TFS4 4SQ systems?

73,
Jorge
CX6VM/CW5W


-----Original Message-----
From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Milt --
N5IA
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2014 9:39 PM
To: topband at contesting.com
Subject: Topband: TX relays


What make and model of DPDT relays are you using in your TX arrays?

What are your sources?

I am looking for some 12 VDC units that are capable of handling full legal
limit power to install in a controller for a multi-element directive array.

Thanks in advance for any and all suggestions.

73 de Milt, N5IA


-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2014.0.4765 / Virus Database: 4040/8351 - Release Date: 10/08/14
_________________ Topband Reflector Archives -
http://www.contesting.com/_topband

_________________
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


---
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Antivirus est? activa.
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_________________
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2014.0.4765 / Virus Database: 4040/8354 - Release Date: 10/09/14



From km1h at jeremy.qozzy.com  Thu Oct  9 11:31:51 2014
From: km1h at jeremy.qozzy.com (Carl)
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2014 11:31:51 -0400
Subject: Topband: TX relays
References: <FFB95A23BD754472A72871BCEBA7ACDD@MiltVostro2010><5435F220.2080403@karlquist.com><5435FB36.3010801@karlquist.com><CAHeGVgqKPgGsWBvB1d0B7kv+BeD1R47w24qMaFObYHWgii3Enw@mail.gmail.com><CA+FxYXiEw60DG0-RTUvmjDL8H-rvWcEddtrcNsmLLqG1mxcsfA@mail.gmail.com><CAJ_qRvayo7AznV9Z=USMA1D6PAg3_BnqGAb18EpULqaK8VCc1Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<8D108BABF4554851BE1271F315F70401@MAIN>
Message-ID: <2BB4554A40354DC99B364D7A6E095AF6@computer1>

So WHAT IS the manufacturers part number of an adequate relay?

Carl
KM1H


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tom W8JI" <w8ji at w8ji.com>
To: "Tim Shoppa" <tshoppa at gmail.com>; "Mike Waters" <mikewate at gmail.com>
Cc: "topband" <topband at contesting.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2014 9:46 AM
Subject: Re: Topband: TX relays


> Because there are many things that go into relay selection that do not 
> show on a data sheet, I always dissect and test relays.
>
> I have found 30 amp power relays that overheat at 5 amps at 28 MHz, and 
> relays that have high contact voltage ratings that make the pole inside 
> the coil hot with full RF. They wind up with 20-30 pF capacitance from 
> armature to coil.
>
> Another issue is resistance and reliability at near zero contact voltage 
> when receiving. This is probably the single biggest relay issue in our 
> applications. A small bifurcated contact relay is better for receive 
> reliability, and a high current hot switch design is by far the worse for 
> receive reliability.
>
> One particularly troublesome high power area for current are the relay 
> internal leads, and the contact support bar materials. The things that 
> make the wires and contact bars last a long time in repeated cycles create 
> very high radio frequency resistances. This is why some large 30 amp power 
> relays will discolor contacts or melt insulation at several amps on higher 
> frequencies.
>
> The same thing applies to contacts. Contact materials and platings that 
> optimize hot switching create RF resistance and low level signal 
> connection issues.  A gold flash on a soft contact, for example, is 
> excellent for receive but will instantly deteriorate if hot switched at 
> more than a few hundred milliamperes or with an inductive load. It might 
> handle 20 amps of closed contact RF current, but only be rated for a few 
> amps of hot switching current. In contrast, a silver cadmium oxide contact 
> can take tons of hot switch voltage and current, but is lousy for relay 
> receive pass through.
>
> Contact support bars, and the wires used in some relays, can also be very 
> problematic. This is because the materials and any weave in wires is 
> designed for flexibility. Alloys and construction that improves mechanical 
> cycle life greatly reduces RF performance.
>
> > Mike, I would be concerned about using these small relays for
> non-resonant
>> antenna switching where the impedance at the switch point may be wildly
>> away from 50 ohms.
>>
>> This is the relay I use to switch tuning networks at non-50-ohm points:
>>
>> http://www.deltrol-controls.com/products/relays/power-relays/900
>>
>> Deltrol is the brand you get if you order from McMaster-Carr but all the
>> big relay manufacturers sell these open frame relays.
>>
>> I also bend the relay contacts for wider spacing as recommended by N6RK 
>> in
>> QST (page 66, May 2009 QST Hints and Kinks, "Increasing Relay Voltage
>> Handling"). Open contact gap of 0.5 inches is readily achievable.
>>
>> Tim N3QE
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 9, 2014 at 6:19 AM, Mike Waters <mikewate at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> This relay looks exactly what I was looking for to remote-switch my 160m
>>> inverted-L to other bands, because it will withstand a lot of voltage. 
>>> From
>>> the PDF:
>>>
>>> High insulation
>>> Insulation distance (between coil and contacts): 10mm min.
>>> Dielectric strength: 5KV
>>> Surge strength: 10KV
>>>
>>> 73, Mike
>>> www.w0btu.com
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 9, 2014 at 2:23 AM, Thomas PA1M <t.b.tinge at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> >  Fujitsu FTR-K1CK012W
>>> >
>>> _________________
>>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>>
>> _________________
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>
>>
>> -----
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 2014.0.4765 / Virus Database: 4037/8351 - Release Date: 10/08/14
>>
>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2014.0.4765 / Virus Database: 4040/8354 - Release Date: 10/09/14
> 


From mikewate at gmail.com  Thu Oct  9 11:50:57 2014
From: mikewate at gmail.com (Mike Waters)
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2014 10:50:57 -0500
Subject: Topband: TX relays
In-Reply-To: <CAJ_qRvayo7AznV9Z=USMA1D6PAg3_BnqGAb18EpULqaK8VCc1Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <FFB95A23BD754472A72871BCEBA7ACDD@MiltVostro2010>
	<5435F220.2080403@karlquist.com> <5435FB36.3010801@karlquist.com>
	<CAHeGVgqKPgGsWBvB1d0B7kv+BeD1R47w24qMaFObYHWgii3Enw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+FxYXiEw60DG0-RTUvmjDL8H-rvWcEddtrcNsmLLqG1mxcsfA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJ_qRvayo7AznV9Z=USMA1D6PAg3_BnqGAb18EpULqaK8VCc1Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+FxYXiCVb8n35Gv9nHXkMrqEkLTARbESPYh26jceRiBYwJkHA@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for the advice. I've already calculated the voltage at the feedpoint
of my 160m inverted-L on 80m at 1500w (using EZNEC), and it's only a little
over 3 kV.

I just popped the cover off a little Omron PCB-mounting relay that I forgot
I had, rated at 10 kV. The spacing between the SPDT contacts and the coil
actually looks greater than that open-frame relay. I was thinking of
seriesing the contacts on two of these relays, if necessary.

I should take a photo and get the Omron P/N later for this thread.

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com

On Thu, Oct 9, 2014 at 7:57 AM, Tim Shoppa <tshoppa at gmail.com> wrote:

> Mike, I would be concerned about using these small relays for non-resonant
> antenna switching where the impedance at the switch point may be wildly
> away from 50 ohms.
>
> This is the relay I use to switch tuning networks at non-50-ohm points:
>
> http://www.deltrol-controls.com/products/relays/power-relays/900
>
> Deltrol is the brand you get if you order from McMaster-Carr but all the
> big relay manufacturers sell these open frame relays.
>
> I also bend the relay contacts for wider spacing as recommended by N6RK in
> QST (page 66, May 2009 QST Hints and Kinks, "Increasing Relay Voltage
> Handling"). Open contact gap of 0.5 inches is readily achievable.
>

From shristov at ptt.rs  Thu Oct  9 13:20:20 2014
From: shristov at ptt.rs (shristov)
Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2014 19:20:20 +0200
Subject: Topband: TX relays
In-Reply-To: <CA+FxYXiCVb8n35Gv9nHXkMrqEkLTARbESPYh26jceRiBYwJkHA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <FFB95A23BD754472A72871BCEBA7ACDD@MiltVostro2010>
	<5435F220.2080403@karlquist.com> <5435FB36.3010801@karlquist.com>
	<CAHeGVgqKPgGsWBvB1d0B7kv+BeD1R47w24qMaFObYHWgii3Enw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+FxYXiEw60DG0-RTUvmjDL8H-rvWcEddtrcNsmLLqG1mxcsfA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJ_qRvayo7AznV9Z=USMA1D6PAg3_BnqGAb18EpULqaK8VCc1Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+FxYXiCVb8n35Gv9nHXkMrqEkLTARbESPYh26jceRiBYwJkHA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fbb12343191d7.5436dff4@ptt.rs>


Mike Waters <mikewate at gmail.com> wrote:

> I just popped the cover off a little Omron PCB-mounting relay that I forgot
> I had, rated at 10 kV.


10 kV between contacts, or 10 kV between a contact and the coil?


73,

Sinisa  YT1NT, VE3EA


From w8ji at w8ji.com  Thu Oct  9 13:33:48 2014
From: w8ji at w8ji.com (Tom W8JI)
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2014 13:33:48 -0400
Subject: Topband: TX relays
References: <FFB95A23BD754472A72871BCEBA7ACDD@MiltVostro2010><5435F220.2080403@karlquist.com>
	<5435FB36.3010801@karlquist.com><CAHeGVgqKPgGsWBvB1d0B7kv+BeD1R47w24qMaFObYHWgii3Enw@mail.gmail.com><CA+FxYXiEw60DG0-RTUvmjDL8H-rvWcEddtrcNsmLLqG1mxcsfA@mail.gmail.com><CAJ_qRvayo7AznV9Z=USMA1D6PAg3_BnqGAb18EpULqaK8VCc1Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+FxYXiCVb8n35Gv9nHXkMrqEkLTARbESPYh26jceRiBYwJkHA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <46A81F5B0AAB40A4A7E025C4A069DB3B@MAIN>

> I just popped the cover off a little Omron PCB-mounting relay that I 
> forgot
> I had, rated at 10 kV. The spacing between the SPDT contacts and the coil
> actually looks greater than that open-frame relay. I was thinking of
> seriesing the contacts on two of these relays, if necessary.
>

If you series the contacts the voltages across open contacts divides by the 
capacitances between the contacts and everything around the contacts.

It is like connecting a bunch of unequal value capacitors in series without 
using any equalizing components to force equal voltage division.

I know we can find claims in a few articles of how well that works. In the 
actual world we live in, it does not actually work very well at RF without 
compensation to equalize voltages. 


From jim at audiosystemsgroup.com  Thu Oct  9 13:38:56 2014
From: jim at audiosystemsgroup.com (Jim Brown)
Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2014 10:38:56 -0700
Subject: Topband: TX relays
In-Reply-To: <8D108BABF4554851BE1271F315F70401@MAIN>
References: <FFB95A23BD754472A72871BCEBA7ACDD@MiltVostro2010><5435F220.2080403@karlquist.com>	<5435FB36.3010801@karlquist.com><CAHeGVgqKPgGsWBvB1d0B7kv+BeD1R47w24qMaFObYHWgii3Enw@mail.gmail.com><CA+FxYXiEw60DG0-RTUvmjDL8H-rvWcEddtrcNsmLLqG1mxcsfA@mail.gmail.com>	<CAJ_qRvayo7AznV9Z=USMA1D6PAg3_BnqGAb18EpULqaK8VCc1Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<8D108BABF4554851BE1271F315F70401@MAIN>
Message-ID: <5436C830.9000701@audiosystemsgroup.com>

On Thu,10/9/2014 6:46 AM, Tom W8JI wrote:
> Because there are many things that go into relay selection that do not 
> show on a data sheet, I always dissect and test relays. 

Thanks for an excellent exposition of the issues. Now how about the 
other half of the question -- part numbers for relays that meet the 
need? This reflector (and the spirit of ham radio) is about SHARING 
information.

73, Jim K9YC

From mikewate at gmail.com  Thu Oct  9 14:17:05 2014
From: mikewate at gmail.com (Mike Waters)
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2014 13:17:05 -0500
Subject: Topband: TX relays
In-Reply-To: <fbb12343191d7.5436dff4@ptt.rs>
References: <FFB95A23BD754472A72871BCEBA7ACDD@MiltVostro2010>
	<5435F220.2080403@karlquist.com> <5435FB36.3010801@karlquist.com>
	<CAHeGVgqKPgGsWBvB1d0B7kv+BeD1R47w24qMaFObYHWgii3Enw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+FxYXiEw60DG0-RTUvmjDL8H-rvWcEddtrcNsmLLqG1mxcsfA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJ_qRvayo7AznV9Z=USMA1D6PAg3_BnqGAb18EpULqaK8VCc1Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+FxYXiCVb8n35Gv9nHXkMrqEkLTARbESPYh26jceRiBYwJkHA@mail.gmail.com>
	<fbb12343191d7.5436dff4@ptt.rs>
Message-ID: <CA+FxYXi=V=Ga6f2xUUkd0zNCZ1mk+tBc4G+z1w4C1_LOGL1L8g@mail.gmail.com>

Between contact and coil. I just took 2 photos:
http://www.w0btu.com/files/misc/Omron_relay_G2R-1-E-T130/

On Thu, Oct 9, 2014 at 12:20 PM, shristov <shristov at ptt.rs> wrote:

>
> Mike Waters <mikewate at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I just popped the cover off a little Omron PCB-mounting relay that I
> forgot
> > I had, rated at 10 kV.
>
>
> 10 kV between contacts, or 10 kV between a contact and the coil?
>
>
> 73,
>
> Sinisa  YT1NT, VE3EA
>

From jeff at ac0c.com  Thu Oct  9 14:17:21 2014
From: jeff at ac0c.com (Jeff Blaine)
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2014 13:17:21 -0500
Subject: Topband: TX relays
In-Reply-To: <5436C830.9000701@audiosystemsgroup.com>
References: <FFB95A23BD754472A72871BCEBA7ACDD@MiltVostro2010><5435F220.2080403@karlquist.com>	<5435FB36.3010801@karlquist.com><CAHeGVgqKPgGsWBvB1d0B7kv+BeD1R47w24qMaFObYHWgii3Enw@mail.gmail.com><CA+FxYXiEw60DG0-RTUvmjDL8H-rvWcEddtrcNsmLLqG1mxcsfA@mail.gmail.com>	<CAJ_qRvayo7AznV9Z=USMA1D6PAg3_BnqGAb18EpULqaK8VCc1Q@mail.gmail.com><8D108BABF4554851BE1271F315F70401@MAIN>
	<5436C830.9000701@audiosystemsgroup.com>
Message-ID: <810A16DB240844A3965BAF4337D370D6@w520>

There is some data on this page:

http://www.w0qe.com/Technical_Topics/small_signal_relays_at_rf.html

I have used the RTD140xx series Schrack/Tyco for years in primarily RTTY 
contesting duty at the KW power level - all without fail.  But I have not 
conducted BDV testing on those relays.

73/jeff/ac0c
www.ac0c.com
alpha-charlie-zero-charlie

-----Original Message----- 
From: Jim Brown
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2014 12:38 PM
To: topband at contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: TX relays

On Thu,10/9/2014 6:46 AM, Tom W8JI wrote:
> Because there are many things that go into relay selection that do not 
> show on a data sheet, I always dissect and test relays.

Thanks for an excellent exposition of the issues. Now how about the
other half of the question -- part numbers for relays that meet the
need? This reflector (and the spirit of ham radio) is about SHARING
information.

73, Jim K9YC
_________________
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband 


From w8ji at w8ji.com  Thu Oct  9 14:18:28 2014
From: w8ji at w8ji.com (Tom W8JI)
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2014 14:18:28 -0400
Subject: Topband: TX relays
References: <FFB95A23BD754472A72871BCEBA7ACDD@MiltVostro2010><5435F220.2080403@karlquist.com>	<5435FB36.3010801@karlquist.com><CAHeGVgqKPgGsWBvB1d0B7kv+BeD1R47w24qMaFObYHWgii3Enw@mail.gmail.com><CA+FxYXiEw60DG0-RTUvmjDL8H-rvWcEddtrcNsmLLqG1mxcsfA@mail.gmail.com>	<CAJ_qRvayo7AznV9Z=USMA1D6PAg3_BnqGAb18EpULqaK8VCc1Q@mail.gmail.com><8D108BABF4554851BE1271F315F70401@MAIN>
	<5436C830.9000701@audiosystemsgroup.com>
Message-ID: <A9A751C684254587B5610D4F9229EDD8@MAIN>

OK Carl and Jim,

I know you want one-part-number-fits-all answers, but I do not think that is 
possible. There are tens of thousands of relays and dozens of applications.

I am afraid telling people what to do in no uncertain terms by specifying a 
part number often winds up being wrong over time as things change.

For example a few years ago a very good Struthers-Dunn high power relay 
moved to China. The internal wire that used to handle several amperes on ten 
meters now heats and melts at half that current on upper HF. The root of 
this problem is the RF specs we are concerned with as amateurs have little 
or no bearing on the 60Hz or dc relay specs, so they didn't change a thing 
for relay operation in the published low frequency or dc specs, but rendered 
it useless at radio frequencies. When a manufacturing process changes, an 
off-the-shelf relay that had good RF performance can suddenly radically 
change.

This is why manufacturers that actually use relays in large quantity, while 
some of the more "grumpy" among us might think are unfairly making money 
through sinister secrecy, are usually better sources. They do the 
consistency checking for us. Some of the relays are custom. For example, the 
RCS8V uses a custom tooled relay that has a double make double break 
contact, or form X contact. It isn't under a part number at Mouser.

73 Tom


> On Thu,10/9/2014 6:46 AM, Tom W8JI wrote:
>> Because there are many things that go into relay selection that do not 
>> show on a data sheet, I always dissect and test relays.
>
> Thanks for an excellent exposition of the issues. Now how about the other 
> half of the question -- part numbers for relays that meet the need? This 
> reflector (and the spirit of ham radio) is about SHARING information.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2014.0.4765 / Virus Database: 4040/8354 - Release Date: 10/09/14
> 


From mikewate at gmail.com  Thu Oct  9 14:18:58 2014
From: mikewate at gmail.com (Mike Waters)
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2014 13:18:58 -0500
Subject: Topband: TX relays
In-Reply-To: <46A81F5B0AAB40A4A7E025C4A069DB3B@MAIN>
References: <FFB95A23BD754472A72871BCEBA7ACDD@MiltVostro2010>
	<5435F220.2080403@karlquist.com> <5435FB36.3010801@karlquist.com>
	<CAHeGVgqKPgGsWBvB1d0B7kv+BeD1R47w24qMaFObYHWgii3Enw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+FxYXiEw60DG0-RTUvmjDL8H-rvWcEddtrcNsmLLqG1mxcsfA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJ_qRvayo7AznV9Z=USMA1D6PAg3_BnqGAb18EpULqaK8VCc1Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+FxYXiCVb8n35Gv9nHXkMrqEkLTARbESPYh26jceRiBYwJkHA@mail.gmail.com>
	<46A81F5B0AAB40A4A7E025C4A069DB3B@MAIN>
Message-ID: <CA+FxYXhi+=2yvZUJ=ypgoU4gLrCmMy08tHTwVM2ra8tehoQ1Kw@mail.gmail.com>

Ahhh yes. Thanks. I didn't think of that. :-)

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com

On Thu, Oct 9, 2014 at 12:33 PM, Tom W8JI <w8ji at w8ji.com> wrote:

> ... I was thinking of seriesing the contacts on two of these relays, if
>> necessary.
>>
>>
> If you series the contacts the voltages across open contacts divides by
> the capacitances between the contacts and everything around the contacts.
>
> It is like connecting a bunch of unequal value capacitors in series
> without using any equalizing components to force equal voltage division.
>

From mikewate at gmail.com  Thu Oct  9 14:29:30 2014
From: mikewate at gmail.com (Mike Waters)
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2014 13:29:30 -0500
Subject: Topband: TX relays
In-Reply-To: <CA+FxYXi=V=Ga6f2xUUkd0zNCZ1mk+tBc4G+z1w4C1_LOGL1L8g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <FFB95A23BD754472A72871BCEBA7ACDD@MiltVostro2010>
	<5435F220.2080403@karlquist.com> <5435FB36.3010801@karlquist.com>
	<CAHeGVgqKPgGsWBvB1d0B7kv+BeD1R47w24qMaFObYHWgii3Enw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+FxYXiEw60DG0-RTUvmjDL8H-rvWcEddtrcNsmLLqG1mxcsfA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJ_qRvayo7AznV9Z=USMA1D6PAg3_BnqGAb18EpULqaK8VCc1Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+FxYXiCVb8n35Gv9nHXkMrqEkLTARbESPYh26jceRiBYwJkHA@mail.gmail.com>
	<fbb12343191d7.5436dff4@ptt.rs>
	<CA+FxYXi=V=Ga6f2xUUkd0zNCZ1mk+tBc4G+z1w4C1_LOGL1L8g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+FxYXjccTSkwyr-K_crZkoBzm4XGRnO4QB77ou+woqOJcKp6Q@mail.gmail.com>

A potential problem with that relay is that it is not sealed. Moisture
could get in, condense, and freeze. And if ice forms in the wrong place,
the relay might not operate. I've had that happen before, and during a 160
contest.

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com

On Thu, Oct 9, 2014 at 1:17 PM, Mike Waters <mikewate at gmail.com> wrote:

> Between contact and coil. I just took 2 photos:
> http://www.w0btu.com/files/misc/Omron_relay_G2R-1-E-T130/
>

From jim at audiosystemsgroup.com  Thu Oct  9 15:37:05 2014
From: jim at audiosystemsgroup.com (Jim Brown)
Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2014 12:37:05 -0700
Subject: Topband: TX relays
In-Reply-To: <A9A751C684254587B5610D4F9229EDD8@MAIN>
References: <FFB95A23BD754472A72871BCEBA7ACDD@MiltVostro2010><5435F220.2080403@karlquist.com>	<5435FB36.3010801@karlquist.com><CAHeGVgqKPgGsWBvB1d0B7kv+BeD1R47w24qMaFObYHWgii3Enw@mail.gmail.com><CA+FxYXiEw60DG0-RTUvmjDL8H-rvWcEddtrcNsmLLqG1mxcsfA@mail.gmail.com>	<CAJ_qRvayo7AznV9Z=USMA1D6PAg3_BnqGAb18EpULqaK8VCc1Q@mail.gmail.com><8D108BABF4554851BE1271F315F70401@MAIN>	<5436C830.9000701@audiosystemsgroup.com>
	<A9A751C684254587B5610D4F9229EDD8@MAIN>
Message-ID: <5436E3E1.2050506@audiosystemsgroup.com>

On Thu,10/9/2014 11:18 AM, Tom W8JI wrote:
> I know you want one-part-number-fits-all answers, but I do not think 
> that is possible. 

That's your assumption, but certainly not mine. What I think most of us 
would appreciate are known good products for specific (or define ranges 
of) applications.

Your observations about quality decline with outsourcing is certainly 
appreciated. Indeed, that is part of the experience we ought to be sharing.

73, Jim K9YC

From km1h at jeremy.qozzy.com  Thu Oct  9 21:36:36 2014
From: km1h at jeremy.qozzy.com (Carl)
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2014 21:36:36 -0400
Subject: Topband: TX relays
References: <FFB95A23BD754472A72871BCEBA7ACDD@MiltVostro2010><5435F220.2080403@karlquist.com>	<5435FB36.3010801@karlquist.com><CAHeGVgqKPgGsWBvB1d0B7kv+BeD1R47w24qMaFObYHWgii3Enw@mail.gmail.com><CA+FxYXiEw60DG0-RTUvmjDL8H-rvWcEddtrcNsmLLqG1mxcsfA@mail.gmail.com>	<CAJ_qRvayo7AznV9Z=USMA1D6PAg3_BnqGAb18EpULqaK8VCc1Q@mail.gmail.com><8D108BABF4554851BE1271F315F70401@MAIN>	<5436C830.9000701@audiosystemsgroup.com><A9A751C684254587B5610D4F9229EDD8@MAIN>
	<5436E3E1.2050506@audiosystemsgroup.com>
Message-ID: <7E308EB1AA894928990CED50BAAB9A2E@computer1>



> On Thu,10/9/2014 11:18 AM, Tom W8JI wrote:
>> I know you want one-part-number-fits-all answers, but I do not think that 
>> is possible.
>
> That's your assumption, but certainly not mine. What I think most of us 
> would appreciate are known good products for specific (or define ranges 
> of) applications.
>
> Your observations about quality decline with outsourcing is certainly 
> appreciated. Indeed, that is part of the experience we ought to be 
> sharing.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
> _________________


Nor mine either.

When Tom doesnt want to divulge anything interesting that threatens his 
secrecy he resorts to insults and a lot of dancing around the subject.

Is the RCS-8V any better than the RCS 4, 10 and 12 which all use the rugged 
DPDT relay used in the Senior Ameritron amps? Board layout has improved for 
increased isolation and the relays are easily replace if needed.

The RCS-8V uses a so called custom relay which costs $33.80 each for 
replacement while the RCS-4 relay is $6.64 from Ameritron.
OTOH there is only a $10 difference between both end products.

For HF to 6M the RCS-4 has 3 relays and rated at 2500W continuous average 
power.

The RCS-8V has 5 relays and is supposedly good for 5KW to 30 mHz but only 1 
KW at 150 mHz. A full set of replacement relays cost as much as the complete 
product!

Does anybody smell a scam here?

Im not grumpy Tom, just frustrated with getting a straight answer out of you 
instead of hiding behind what ever nonsense verbiage you like to throw out 
such as:

"For example, the
RCS8V uses a custom tooled relay that has a double make double break
contact, or form X contact. It isn't under a part number at Mouser"

Translation:  it is configured as a transfer relay ( the form X contact (it 
should read configuration)) with each leg in parallel due to a shorting bar 
between them explained as a long winded elaboration "double make double 
break contact or form X contact ".
"It isn't under a part number at Mouser" Maybe not but a regular DPDT relay 
could be modified at home to be a credible performer thru 6M.

There is nothing earth shattering about a transfer relay Tom, they have been 
around possibly since relays were invented. I use an ancient 4 port Dow Key 
on my 1500W 2M amp. A Transco transfer relay is used on the 222 mHz 1500W 
amp and another on the 400W for 432.

Most HF amps use a different form of transfer relay which is simply a 
standard DPDT wired for the required transfer function.
No magic there either.

Bifurcated contact simply means twin contact, aka parallel.

Here is an excellent tutorial on relay terminology
http://www.relaymaster.com/Glossary.aspx

BTW, some states have passed laws against companies that refuse to release 
service information to independent shops.
Its time you and DXE as well as a few others are included if it doesnt 
become voluntary.

Carl
KM1H 


From km1h at jeremy.qozzy.com  Thu Oct  9 21:45:30 2014
From: km1h at jeremy.qozzy.com (Carl)
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2014 21:45:30 -0400
Subject: Topband: TX relays
References: <FFB95A23BD754472A72871BCEBA7ACDD@MiltVostro2010><5435F220.2080403@karlquist.com>	<5435FB36.3010801@karlquist.com><CAHeGVgqKPgGsWBvB1d0B7kv+BeD1R47w24qMaFObYHWgii3Enw@mail.gmail.com><CA+FxYXiEw60DG0-RTUvmjDL8H-rvWcEddtrcNsmLLqG1mxcsfA@mail.gmail.com>	<CAJ_qRvayo7AznV9Z=USMA1D6PAg3_BnqGAb18EpULqaK8VCc1Q@mail.gmail.com><8D108BABF4554851BE1271F315F70401@MAIN>	<5436C830.9000701@audiosystemsgroup.com><A9A751C684254587B5610D4F9229EDD8@MAIN>
	<5436E3E1.2050506@audiosystemsgroup.com>
Message-ID: <2CB91838979340E58B185DB085A1A123@computer1>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jim Brown" <jim at audiosystemsgroup.com>
To: <topband at contesting.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2014 3:37 PM
Subject: Re: Topband: TX relays


> On Thu,10/9/2014 11:18 AM, Tom W8JI wrote:
>> I know you want one-part-number-fits-all answers, but I do not think that 
>> is possible.
>
> That's your assumption, but certainly not mine. What I think most of us 
> would appreciate are known good products for specific (or define ranges 
> of) applications.
>
> Your observations about quality decline with outsourcing is certainly 
> appreciated. Indeed, that is part of the experience we ought to be 
> sharing.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC




> On Thu,10/9/2014 11:18 AM, Tom W8JI wrote:
>> I know you want one-part-number-fits-all answers, but I do not think that 
>> is possible.
>
> That's your assumption, but certainly not mine. What I think most of us 
> would appreciate are known good products for specific (or define ranges 
> of) applications.
>
> Your observations about quality decline with outsourcing is certainly 
> appreciated. Indeed, that is part of the experience we ought to be 
> sharing.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
> _________________


Nor mine either.

When Tom doesnt want to divulge anything interesting he resorts to insults 
and a lot of dancing around the subject.

Is the RCS-8V any better than the RCS 4, 10 and 12 which all use the rugged 
DPDT relay used in the Senior Ameritron amps. Board layout has improved for 
increased isolation and the relays are easily replace if needed.

The RCS-8V uses a so called custom relay which costs $33.80 each for 
replacement while the RCS-4 relay is $6.64.
OTOH there is only a $10 difference between both end products.

For HF to 6M the RCS-4 has 3 relays and rated at 2500W continuous average 
power.

The RCS-8V has 5 relays and is supposedly good for 5KW to 30 mHz but only 1 
KW at 150 mHz. A full set of replacement relays cost as much as the complete 
product!

Does anybody smell a scam here?

Im not grumpy Tom, just frustrated with getting a straight answer out of you 
instead of hiding behind what ever nonsense verbiage you like to throw out 
such as:

"For example, the
RCS8V uses a custom tooled relay that has a double make double break
contact, or form X contact. It isn't under a part number at Mouser"

Translation:  it is configured as a transfer relay ( the form X contact (it 
should read configuration)) with each leg in parallel due to a shorting bar 
between them explained as a long winded elaboration "double make double 
break contact or form X contact ". It isn't under a part number at Mouser.

There is nothing earth shattering about a transfer relay Tom, they have been 
around possibly since relays were invented. I use an ancient 4 port Dow Key 
on my 1500W 2M amp. A Transco transfer relay is used on the 222 mHz 1500W 
amp and another on the 400W for 432.
I use a transfer switch on my house generator.

Most HF amps use a different form of transfer relay which is simply a 
standard DPDT wired for the transfer function.
No magic there either.

The RCS-8V relay can be duplicated at home from a standard DPDT with decent 
performance to 6M

Bifurcated contact simply means twin contact, aka parallel.

Here is an excellent tutorial on relay terminology
http://www.relaymaster.com/Glossary.aspx

BTW, some states have passed laws against companies that refuse to release 
service information to independent shops.
Its time you and DXE as well as a few others are included if it doesnt 
become voluntary.

Carl
KM1H 


From n7rt at cox.net  Thu Oct  9 22:11:19 2014
From: n7rt at cox.net (Hardy Landskov)
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2014 19:11:19 -0700
Subject: Topband: TX relays
References: <FFB95A23BD754472A72871BCEBA7ACDD@MiltVostro2010><5435F220.2080403@karlquist.com>	<5435FB36.3010801@karlquist.com><CAHeGVgqKPgGsWBvB1d0B7kv+BeD1R47w24qMaFObYHWgii3Enw@mail.gmail.com><CA+FxYXiEw60DG0-RTUvmjDL8H-rvWcEddtrcNsmLLqG1mxcsfA@mail.gmail.com>	<CAJ_qRvayo7AznV9Z=USMA1D6PAg3_BnqGAb18EpULqaK8VCc1Q@mail.gmail.com><8D108BABF4554851BE1271F315F70401@MAIN>	<5436C830.9000701@audiosystemsgroup.com><A9A751C684254587B5610D4F9229EDD8@MAIN><5436E3E1.2050506@audiosystemsgroup.com>
	<1Dcr1p00932TbLd01DcukM>
Message-ID: <EFAA439E575440B59A38C7FD332A1087@hardy998140597>

Carl, et al,
You have valid points. I have resorted, for example to making my own high 
power handling T/R relays using Kilovac, Jennings, and other brands of 
vacuum relays I can find, with my mill and lathe. This is a part of ham 
radio that I thoroughly enjoy !! (I do use the N-Style female connectors 
that use the SMA footprint at the bottom. Got a bunch at Orlando.) They take 
power just fine.

DXE has some very useful items One would think DXE would cut hams some slack 
but they are totally out of my price range anyway. My 2 cents...
73 Hardy N7RT


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Carl" <km1h at jeremy.qozzy.com>
To: <jim at audiosystemsgroup.com>; <topband at contesting.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2014 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: Topband: TX relays


>
>
>> On Thu,10/9/2014 11:18 AM, Tom W8JI wrote:
>>> I know you want one-part-number-fits-all answers, but I do not think 
>>> that is possible.
>>
>> That's your assumption, but certainly not mine. What I think most of us 
>> would appreciate are known good products for specific (or define ranges 
>> of) applications.
>>
>> Your observations about quality decline with outsourcing is certainly 
>> appreciated. Indeed, that is part of the experience we ought to be 
>> sharing.
>>
>> 73, Jim K9YC
>> _________________
>
>
> Nor mine either.
>
> When Tom doesnt want to divulge anything interesting that threatens his 
> secrecy he resorts to insults and a lot of dancing around the subject.
>
> Is the RCS-8V any better than the RCS 4, 10 and 12 which all use the 
> rugged DPDT relay used in the Senior Ameritron amps? Board layout has 
> improved for increased isolation and the relays are easily replace if 
> needed.
>
> The RCS-8V uses a so called custom relay which costs $33.80 each for 
> replacement while the RCS-4 relay is $6.64 from Ameritron.
> OTOH there is only a $10 difference between both end products.
>
> For HF to 6M the RCS-4 has 3 relays and rated at 2500W continuous average 
> power.
>
> The RCS-8V has 5 relays and is supposedly good for 5KW to 30 mHz but only 
> 1 KW at 150 mHz. A full set of replacement relays cost as much as the 
> complete product!
>
> Does anybody smell a scam here?
>
> Im not grumpy Tom, just frustrated with getting a straight answer out of 
> you instead of hiding behind what ever nonsense verbiage you like to throw 
> out such as:
>
> "For example, the
> RCS8V uses a custom tooled relay that has a double make double break
> contact, or form X contact. It isn't under a part number at Mouser"
>
> Translation:  it is configured as a transfer relay ( the form X contact 
> (it should read configuration)) with each leg in parallel due to a 
> shorting bar between them explained as a long winded elaboration "double 
> make double break contact or form X contact ".
> "It isn't under a part number at Mouser" Maybe not but a regular DPDT 
> relay could be modified at home to be a credible performer thru 6M.
>
> There is nothing earth shattering about a transfer relay Tom, they have 
> been around possibly since relays were invented. I use an ancient 4 port 
> Dow Key on my 1500W 2M amp. A Transco transfer relay is used on the 222 
> mHz 1500W amp and another on the 400W for 432.
>
> Most HF amps use a different form of transfer relay which is simply a 
> standard DPDT wired for the required transfer function.
> No magic there either.
>
> Bifurcated contact simply means twin contact, aka parallel.
>
> Here is an excellent tutorial on relay terminology
> http://www.relaymaster.com/Glossary.aspx
>
> BTW, some states have passed laws against companies that refuse to release 
> service information to independent shops.
> Its time you and DXE as well as a few others are included if it doesnt 
> become voluntary.
>
> Carl
> KM1H
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> 



From w8ji at w8ji.com  Thu Oct  9 22:54:17 2014
From: w8ji at w8ji.com (Tom W8JI)
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2014 22:54:17 -0400
Subject: Topband: TX relays
References: <FFB95A23BD754472A72871BCEBA7ACDD@MiltVostro2010><5435F220.2080403@karlquist.com>
	<5435FB36.3010801@karlquist.com><CAHeGVgqKPgGsWBvB1d0B7kv+BeD1R47w24qMaFObYHWgii3Enw@mail.gmail.com><CA+FxYXiEw60DG0-RTUvmjDL8H-rvWcEddtrcNsmLLqG1mxcsfA@mail.gmail.com><CAJ_qRvayo7AznV9Z=USMA1D6PAg3_BnqGAb18EpULqaK8VCc1Q@mail.gmail.com><CA+FxYXiCVb8n35Gv9nHXkMrqEkLTARbESPYh26jceRiBYwJkHA@mail.gmail.com><fbb12343191d7.5436dff4@ptt.rs><CA+FxYXi=V=Ga6f2xUUkd0zNCZ1mk+tBc4G+z1w4C1_LOGL1L8g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+FxYXjccTSkwyr-K_crZkoBzm4XGRnO4QB77ou+woqOJcKp6Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F4E679463F8F4F91A637774C6678F024@MAIN>

>
>> Between contact and coil. I just took 2 photos:
>> http://www.w0btu.com/files/misc/Omron_relay_G2R-1-E-T130/


This is where dissection helps. We can see, from the pictures, that relay is 
likely a good relay.

1.) It has wide smooth current paths. It does not have wire leads

2.) It has good spacing and insulation from contacts to the coil and metal 
outside the contacts

3.) It appears to be, although I am not certain, a gold flash.

Gold (real gold flash) is ideal for the receiving end as long as it is not 
hot switched or arced. Silver is not. Some silver alloys are worse still, 
and materials that appear in relays designed to be hot switched at high 
current are terrible in our applications (unless we only transmit).

When people burnish contacts, they rub the gold off. This is why a WD40 
wetted hard paper is about the most abrasive thing that should ever be used 
as a cleaning tool.

There is a problem with relays enclosed in plastic, like the picture. The 
plastic can leech contaminants that spoil the connection at low currents. 
Brand new relays exhibit this issue. Usually it clears and eventually stays 
OK once some very small current is passed through the contacts.

This is a frustrating problem for new equipment, because the relay can be OK 
in testing until it sits a while.

73 Tom 


From mikewate at gmail.com  Fri Oct 10 06:02:27 2014
From: mikewate at gmail.com (Mike Waters)
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2014 05:02:27 -0500
Subject: Topband: TX relays
In-Reply-To: <F4E679463F8F4F91A637774C6678F024@MAIN>
References: <FFB95A23BD754472A72871BCEBA7ACDD@MiltVostro2010>
	<5435F220.2080403@karlquist.com> <5435FB36.3010801@karlquist.com>
	<CAHeGVgqKPgGsWBvB1d0B7kv+BeD1R47w24qMaFObYHWgii3Enw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+FxYXiEw60DG0-RTUvmjDL8H-rvWcEddtrcNsmLLqG1mxcsfA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJ_qRvayo7AznV9Z=USMA1D6PAg3_BnqGAb18EpULqaK8VCc1Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+FxYXiCVb8n35Gv9nHXkMrqEkLTARbESPYh26jceRiBYwJkHA@mail.gmail.com>
	<fbb12343191d7.5436dff4@ptt.rs>
	<CA+FxYXi=V=Ga6f2xUUkd0zNCZ1mk+tBc4G+z1w4C1_LOGL1L8g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+FxYXjccTSkwyr-K_crZkoBzm4XGRnO4QB77ou+woqOJcKp6Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<F4E679463F8F4F91A637774C6678F024@MAIN>
Message-ID: <CA+FxYXhUfpPHkvO0wZr7tM3-aUT5HE+Y5vL3u_6yM8BLd5sCYQ@mail.gmail.com>

The contacts are not gold-flashed, that's just the lighting and reflections
that makes it look that way in the photos. They are a cadmium-free silver
alloy. Here's the data sheet.
http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/307/en-g2r-15525.pdf

But, this discussion does not answer Milt's original question, because he
wants a DPDT relay. :-)
He said "I am looking for some 12 VDC units that are capable of handling
full legal limit power to install in a controller for a multi-element
directive array." Maybe we can get back on track here.

I have a half-dozen sealed 12VDC DPDT relays that I am going to use (among
other things) to switch the low-Z sections of my remote tuner/band switch.
They're rated at 8A and have 5 kV insulation (and maybe that's
conservative) between coil and contacts. I'm pretty confident they will
handle the legal limit even with a little mismatch. (And these are not for
any receiving application here.)

The Mouser P/N is 655-RTE24012.
Contacts are 90% silver and 10% nickel.
Data sheet: http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/418/RT2pb0411-205066.pdf

I would have to cut one of them open to take a photo of the guts, and I'd
rather not do that right now.

Mouser has about 5,000 of them in stock, and they are only about three
bucks each.

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com

On Thu, Oct 9, 2014 at 9:54 PM, Tom W8JI <w8ji at w8ji.com> wrote:

>
>>  Between contact and coil. I just took 2 photos:
>>> http://www.w0btu.com/files/misc/Omron_relay_G2R-1-E-T130/
>>>
>>
>
> This is where dissection helps. We can see, from the pictures, that relay
> is likely a good relay.
>
> 1.) It has wide smooth current paths. It does not have wire leads
>
> 2.) It has good spacing and insulation from contacts to the coil and metal
> outside the contacts
>
> 3.) It appears to be, although I am not certain, a gold flash.
>
> Gold (real gold flash) is ideal for the receiving end as long as it is not
> hot switched or arced. Silver is not. Some silver alloys are worse still,
> and materials that appear in relays designed to be hot switched at high
> current are terrible in our applications (unless we only transmit).
>

From wa5rtg at gmail.com  Fri Oct 10 07:51:39 2014
From: wa5rtg at gmail.com (Stan Stockton)
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2014 06:51:39 -0500
Subject: Topband: TX relays
In-Reply-To: <FFB95A23BD754472A72871BCEBA7ACDD@MiltVostro2010>
References: <FFB95A23BD754472A72871BCEBA7ACDD@MiltVostro2010>
Message-ID: <78DB20CC-42C8-4933-A58C-1B4A2473A8E4@gmail.com>

Milt,

I have built four or five "stack matches" using these relays and have been quite pleased with them. 

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/TE-Connectivity/T92S11D22-12/?qs=%2fha2pyFadujQKxyiQ9QJsU9gOmzykpctnwthD3xoZjoJPHbNrun4hw%3d%3d

73...Stan, K5GO

Sent from my iPad

> On Oct 8, 2014, at 8:39 PM, Milt -- N5IA <n5ia at zia-connection.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> What make and model of DPDT relays are you using in your TX arrays?
> 
> What are your sources?
> 
> I am looking for some 12 VDC units that are capable of handling full legal limit power to install in a controller for a multi-element directive array.
> 
> Thanks in advance for any and all suggestions.
> 
> 73 de Milt, N5IA
> 
> 
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2014.0.4765 / Virus Database: 4040/8351 - Release Date: 10/08/14
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

From w8ji at w8ji.com  Fri Oct 10 08:29:40 2014
From: w8ji at w8ji.com (Tom W8JI)
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2014 08:29:40 -0400
Subject: Topband: TX relays
References: <FFB95A23BD754472A72871BCEBA7ACDD@MiltVostro2010>
	<78DB20CC-42C8-4933-A58C-1B4A2473A8E4@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B821E5F8AF5D4B92AC1A58019A01F1B1@MAIN>

> I have built four or five "stack matches" using these relays and have been 
> quite pleased with them.
>
> http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/TE-Connectivity/T92S11D22-12/?qs=%2fha2pyFadujQKxyiQ9QJsU9gOmzykpctnwthD3xoZjoJPHbNrun4hw%3d%3d
>
> 73...Stan, K5GO

If you look at the contact material, it is the wrong material type for our 
applications. Those relays are hot switch relays for high current 
applications with Silver Cadmium Oxide. From an engineering bulletin on 
selecting relay contact materials:

Silver Cadmium Oxide

Silver cadmium oxide contacts have long been used for switching loads

that produce a high energy arc. Silver cadmium oxide contacts are less

electrically conductive than fine silver contacts, but have superior

resistance to material transfer and material loss due to arcing. They do

exhibit greater interface resistance between mated contacts, and also a

slightly greater contact assembly heat rise. The minimum arc voltagerating

of silver cadmium oxide is 10 volts and, like fine silver contacts, the 
silver

in this alloy will oxidize and sulfidate. Therefore, an arc is necessary to

keep these contacts clean.


This doesn't mean they won't work and will go up in smoke. It does mean they 
are subject to contact sulfidation which causes intermittent receive. They 
have silver, a hard base material, and large contact area that does not wipe 
well. They also are the type of relay that is subject to contact derating 
from skin effect because of constant resistivity.


73 Tom


From wa5rtg at gmail.com  Fri Oct 10 09:06:41 2014
From: wa5rtg at gmail.com (Stan Stockton)
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2014 08:06:41 -0500
Subject: Topband: TX relays
In-Reply-To: <B821E5F8AF5D4B92AC1A58019A01F1B1@MAIN>
References: <FFB95A23BD754472A72871BCEBA7ACDD@MiltVostro2010>
	<78DB20CC-42C8-4933-A58C-1B4A2473A8E4@gmail.com>
	<B821E5F8AF5D4B92AC1A58019A01F1B1@MAIN>
Message-ID: <3DF12F78-C058-4527-B653-D8D3ABA0CB7F@gmail.com>

Tom,

What would be a better choice for a stack match?  

I'm quite sure that in the heat of a contest these things have been hot switched on rare occasion with 1500w.  There was one time when I intentionally hot switched one of them with 100w because I thought the receive signal was down 10dB or so.  Problem went away.  Anyway I've been using them for about 6 years or so and only had one that failed after a big lightening strike.

Stan, K5GO

Sent from my iPad

On Oct 10, 2014, at 7:29 AM, Tom W8JI <w8ji at w8ji.com> wrote:

>> I have built four or five "stack matches" using these relays and have been quite pleased with them.
>> 
>> http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/TE-Connectivity/T92S11D22-12/?qs=%2fha2pyFadujQKxyiQ9QJsU9gOmzykpctnwthD3xoZjoJPHbNrun4hw%3d%3d
>> 
>> 73...Stan, K5GO
> 
> If you look at the contact material, it is the wrong material type for our applications. Those relays are hot switch relays for high current applications with Silver Cadmium Oxide. From an engineering bulletin on selecting relay contact materials:
> 
> Silver Cadmium Oxide
> 
> Silver cadmium oxide contacts have long been used for switching loads
> 
> that produce a high energy arc. Silver cadmium oxide contacts are less
> 
> electrically conductive than fine silver contacts, but have superior
> 
> resistance to material transfer and material loss due to arcing. They do
> 
> exhibit greater interface resistance between mated contacts, and also a
> 
> slightly greater contact assembly heat rise. The minimum arc voltagerating
> 
> of silver cadmium oxide is 10 volts and, like fine silver contacts, the silver
> 
> in this alloy will oxidize and sulfidate. Therefore, an arc is necessary to
> 
> keep these contacts clean.
> 
> 
> This doesn't mean they won't work and will go up in smoke. It does mean they are subject to contact sulfidation which causes intermittent receive. They have silver, a hard base material, and large contact area that does not wipe well. They also are the type of relay that is subject to contact derating from skin effect because of constant resistivity.
> 
> 
> 73 Tom
> 

From tshoppa at gmail.com  Fri Oct 10 09:46:23 2014
From: tshoppa at gmail.com (Tim Shoppa)
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2014 09:46:23 -0400
Subject: Topband: TX relays
In-Reply-To: <B821E5F8AF5D4B92AC1A58019A01F1B1@MAIN>
References: <FFB95A23BD754472A72871BCEBA7ACDD@MiltVostro2010>
	<78DB20CC-42C8-4933-A58C-1B4A2473A8E4@gmail.com>
	<B821E5F8AF5D4B92AC1A58019A01F1B1@MAIN>
Message-ID: <CAJ_qRvaejvT_c-Qxn44JCvs_uLR6w1qPm957PhLWHzGZX13VgA@mail.gmail.com>

My observation (given the large number of silver cadmium relay contacts
I've seen at large contest stations, as well as more limited use at my
little station) is that the large amounts of power being put through the
relays helps blow the contacts clean in real life and prevents
"intermittent receive" from happening on contact pairs that are also
recently used for transmit.

Tim N3QE

On Fri, Oct 10, 2014 at 8:29 AM, Tom W8JI <w8ji at w8ji.com> wrote:

> I have built four or five "stack matches" using these relays and have been
>> quite pleased with them.
>>
>> http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/TE-Connectivity/T92S11D22-12/?qs=%
>> 2fha2pyFadujQKxyiQ9QJsU9gOmzykpctnwthD3xoZjoJPHbNrun4hw%3d%3d
>>
>> 73...Stan, K5GO
>>
>
> If you look at the contact material, it is the wrong material type for our
> applications. Those relays are hot switch relays for high current
> applications with Silver Cadmium Oxide. From an engineering bulletin on
> selecting relay contact materials:
>
> Silver Cadmium Oxide
>
> Silver cadmium oxide contacts have long been used for switching loads
>
> that produce a high energy arc. Silver cadmium oxide contacts are less
>
> electrically conductive than fine silver contacts, but have superior
>
> resistance to material transfer and material loss due to arcing. They do
>
> exhibit greater interface resistance between mated contacts, and also a
>
> slightly greater contact assembly heat rise. The minimum arc voltagerating
>
> of silver cadmium oxide is 10 volts and, like fine silver contacts, the
> silver
>
> in this alloy will oxidize and sulfidate. Therefore, an arc is necessary to
>
> keep these contacts clean.
>
>
> This doesn't mean they won't work and will go up in smoke. It does mean
> they are subject to contact sulfidation which causes intermittent receive.
> They have silver, a hard base material, and large contact area that does
> not wipe well. They also are the type of relay that is subject to contact
> derating from skin effect because of constant resistivity.
>
>
> 73 Tom
>
>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>

From w8ji at w8ji.com  Fri Oct 10 11:48:30 2014
From: w8ji at w8ji.com (Tom W8JI)
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2014 11:48:30 -0400
Subject: Topband: TX relays
References: <FFB95A23BD754472A72871BCEBA7ACDD@MiltVostro2010><78DB20CC-42C8-4933-A58C-1B4A2473A8E4@gmail.com><B821E5F8AF5D4B92AC1A58019A01F1B1@MAIN>
	<3DF12F78-C058-4527-B653-D8D3ABA0CB7F@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <60523A4E35754BDC9333F2E00F52BFFC@MAIN>


> What would be a better choice for a stack match?
>
> I'm quite sure that in the heat of a contest these things have been hot 
> switched on rare occasion with 1500w.  There was one time when I 
> intentionally hot switched one of them with 100w because I thought the 
> receive signal was down 10dB or so.  Problem went away.  Anyway I've been 
> using them for about 6 years or so and only had one that failed after a 
> big lightening strike.
>
> Stan, K5GO


Hi Stan,

There is a direct opposition between a contact able to take an intense arc 
in switching and a contact that is low resistance and maintains low 
resistance without "wetting" (wetting is a significant steady voltage that 
burns off the micro-thin sulfide and contaminant layer).

I'm sure there is stuff on line by relay manufacturers. Relay contact issues 
on receive are probably the number one problem manufacturers face. This 
might not show in a stack switch because the receiver will often receive 
through some path, even if the stack connection is not what it is on 
transmit. The same is true for directional arrays, where an element or two 
might drop from the system on receive, and the operator be unaware it is 
even happening.

Receive drop out problems like this might be masked in a stack or 
directional switch, but they are clearly evident in an antenna selector 
switch and in an amplifier antenna transfer relay. Since there are not 
multiple receive paths to some portion of the antenna system, they go 
completely dead. In a stack or directional array, you just lose pattern. The 
operator is just not aware of the problem because it is not hitting him in 
the head with a 2x4.

You really don't want to hot switch anything with RF. It is not only rough 
on the relay, it is rough on gear.

There are two ways to handle most systems. It is possible to build a small 
external box that disallows hot switching. It is also possible in some cases 
to build the relay box in a way that does not permit open contact 
conditions, which is called a "make before break" system.

Most of the control stuff I'm involved with has hot switch protection. The 
DXE 4 square controller, for example, disallows switching while the TX 
control line is low. It switches when the TX line is high, but locks off the 
amplifier relay control line for a preprogrammed time until the relays have 
time to settle. It also cycles the relays repeatedly and rapidly on initial 
power-up to wipe contacts.

The RCS 12 Ameritron does the same for hot switch. The RCS12 not only locks 
out hot switching, it locks out the wrong band. If an RCS12 is connected to 
band data from the radio it could provide automatic band antenna selection 
plus stack selection on one box, and include hot switch lockout.

I load my contest station with RCS12's so operators cannot pick the wrong 
antenna for the band, and so they cannot hot switch. They can actually 
change antennas by stabbing a button during transmit, and the RCS12 holds 
off the transfer until the TX drops. When TX drops it opens the amplifier 
control line, and then transfers the relay. After the relay transfers it 
allows amplifier use again. This way someone cannot pick the wrong antenna, 
and they cannot transfer a relay while the amplifier is on line.

When I design a stack box or any relay system, one of my considerations is 
to try to not permit wiring or contact conditions that allow open transfer 
loads on feeders in the relay box itself. This is called make before break 
operation. Sometimes this complicates the relay system, but it improves life 
in the field. Often it is not possible, but I generally spend some time 
trying to find a way to do this on any new projects. It is sometimes 
possible with a stack box and other switching, but it is impossible with an 
antenna transfer relay without greatly increasing cost.

The end result of this is usually increased cost, which causes people with 
dysthymic disorder to publically vent, but in the long term it is better to 
make a system more difficult to break. It is a bigger PITA for me to have to 
go out and change a board with 10 or 15 relays because of operator error 
than it is to just prevent the problem.

73 Tom 


From km1h at jeremy.qozzy.com  Fri Oct 10 12:11:00 2014
From: km1h at jeremy.qozzy.com (Carl)
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2014 12:11:00 -0400
Subject: Topband: TX relays
References: <FFB95A23BD754472A72871BCEBA7ACDD@MiltVostro2010><78DB20CC-42C8-4933-A58C-1B4A2473A8E4@gmail.com>
	<B821E5F8AF5D4B92AC1A58019A01F1B1@MAIN>
Message-ID: <9E06E8D108A746F1BC84E60C7568D221@computer1>

During the years I was running 10-40M stacks I used 24VDC surplus DPDT 
relays at .50-1.00 each from All Electronics; 12 or 13A contacts if I 
remember and in clear plastic dust covers. These were mounted in surplus 
CATV line fixtures (splitter, power combiner, etc).

After up to 15 years of heavy use when I dismantled the arrays they looked 
still as new inside and never once acted up.

IMO there is way too much fussing about things that have no effect at HF to 
most users.

Note also that all Ameritron switches use open relays, even the overpriced 
ones.
The supposedly idiot proof RCS-12 would be attractive at certain contest 
stations with operators still with training wheels.

Tom still hasnt answered why there is only a $10 price difference between 
the RCS-4 and the -8V yet users of the -8V are getting raped for replacement 
relays.

Carl
KM1H



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tom W8JI" <w8ji at w8ji.com>
To: "Stan Stockton" <wa5rtg at gmail.com>; "Milt -- N5IA" 
<n5ia at zia-connection.com>
Cc: <topband at contesting.com>
Sent: Friday, October 10, 2014 8:29 AM
Subject: Re: Topband: TX relays


>> I have built four or five "stack matches" using these relays and have 
>> been quite pleased with them.
>>
>> http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/TE-Connectivity/T92S11D22-12/?qs=%2fha2pyFadujQKxyiQ9QJsU9gOmzykpctnwthD3xoZjoJPHbNrun4hw%3d%3d
>>
>> 73...Stan, K5GO
>
> If you look at the contact material, it is the wrong material type for our 
> applications. Those relays are hot switch relays for high current 
> applications with Silver Cadmium Oxide. From an engineering bulletin on 
> selecting relay contact materials:
>
> Silver Cadmium Oxide
>
> Silver cadmium oxide contacts have long been used for switching loads
>
> that produce a high energy arc. Silver cadmium oxide contacts are less
>
> electrically conductive than fine silver contacts, but have superior
>
> resistance to material transfer and material loss due to arcing. They do
>
> exhibit greater interface resistance between mated contacts, and also a
>
> slightly greater contact assembly heat rise. The minimum arc voltagerating
>
> of silver cadmium oxide is 10 volts and, like fine silver contacts, the 
> silver
>
> in this alloy will oxidize and sulfidate. Therefore, an arc is necessary 
> to
>
> keep these contacts clean.
>
>
> This doesn't mean they won't work and will go up in smoke. It does mean 
> they are subject to contact sulfidation which causes intermittent receive. 
> They have silver, a hard base material, and large contact area that does 
> not wipe well. They also are the type of relay that is subject to contact 
> derating from skin effect because of constant resistivity.
>
>
> 73 Tom
>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2014.0.4765 / Virus Database: 4040/8359 - Release Date: 10/10/14
> 


From w8ji at w8ji.com  Fri Oct 10 12:39:20 2014
From: w8ji at w8ji.com (Tom W8JI)
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2014 12:39:20 -0400
Subject: Topband: TX relays
References: <FFB95A23BD754472A72871BCEBA7ACDD@MiltVostro2010><78DB20CC-42C8-4933-A58C-1B4A2473A8E4@gmail.com><B821E5F8AF5D4B92AC1A58019A01F1B1@MAIN>
	<9E06E8D108A746F1BC84E60C7568D221@computer1>
Message-ID: <3EBE2B096ABA459EBF3B8C5D9C448C01@MAIN>

> Tom still hasnt answered why there is only a $10 price difference between 
> the RCS-4 and the -8V yet users of the -8V are getting raped for 
> replacement relays.
>

I don't know why any public forum allows you to post the vitriol nonsense 
you post.

Do you ever do anything in life besides insulting others or picking fights? 


From w8ji at w8ji.com  Fri Oct 10 12:41:21 2014
From: w8ji at w8ji.com (Tom W8JI)
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2014 12:41:21 -0400
Subject: Topband: TX relays
References: <FFB95A23BD754472A72871BCEBA7ACDD@MiltVostro2010><5435F220.2080403@karlquist.com>
	<5435FB36.3010801@karlquist.com><CAHeGVgqKPgGsWBvB1d0B7kv+BeD1R47w24qMaFObYHWgii3Enw@mail.gmail.com><CA+FxYXiEw60DG0-RTUvmjDL8H-rvWcEddtrcNsmLLqG1mxcsfA@mail.gmail.com><CAJ_qRvayo7AznV9Z=USMA1D6PAg3_BnqGAb18EpULqaK8VCc1Q@mail.gmail.com><CA+FxYXiCVb8n35Gv9nHXkMrqEkLTARbESPYh26jceRiBYwJkHA@mail.gmail.com><fbb12343191d7.5436dff4@ptt.rs><CA+FxYXi=V=Ga6f2xUUkd0zNCZ1mk+tBc4G+z1w4C1_LOGL1L8g@mail.gmail.com><CA+FxYXjccTSkwyr-K_crZkoBzm4XGRnO4QB77ou+woqOJcKp6Q@mail.gmail.com><F4E679463F8F4F91A637774C6678F024@MAIN>
	<CA+FxYXhUfpPHkvO0wZr7tM3-aUT5HE+Y5vL3u_6yM8BLd5sCYQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3294EC9B630C4F7DA27985AE8BF2A987@MAIN>

Hi Mike,

> The contacts are not gold-flashed, that's just the lighting and 
> reflections
> that makes it look that way in the photos. They are a cadmium-free silver
> alloy. Here's the data sheet.

Silver is a poor material for most environments without wetting currents 
because of sulfidation. It is certainly better than cad contacts, but 
ideally contacts should be gold flash for maximum reliability in receive 
applications. Of course TX power will break down the sulfide, and restore 
receiving.

> But, this discussion does not answer Milt's original question, because he
> wants a DPDT relay. :-)
> He said "I am looking for some 12 VDC units that are capable of handling
> full legal limit power to install in a controller for a multi-element
> directive array." Maybe we can get back on track here.

To pick a relay, one usually has to understand the system in some depth. 
Milt has an unusual system in that his system has inactive elements that are 
in an area of intense local field levels connected through odd quarter wave 
feedline. The system has to disable the unused elements without having 
excessive voltages across open contacts.

The impedances at the common point are also nowhere near 50 ohms, and we do 
not know the voltage distribution.

Without knowing open circuit voltage levels and operating voltages and 
currents, I couldn't possibly make a suggestion. What works in my system are 
the DXE smaller relays, but my system is entirely different than Milt's.

> I have a half-dozen sealed 12VDC DPDT relays that I am going to use (among
> other things) to switch the low-Z sections of my remote tuner/band switch.
> They're rated at 8A and have 5 kV insulation (and maybe that's
> conservative) between coil and contacts. I'm pretty confident they will
> handle the legal limit even with a little mismatch. (And these are not for
> any receiving application here.)

The dc or hot switch current rating has little to do with how they work at 
30 MHz, and we have no idea what the operating parameters in Milt's system 
are. I know the requirements are different from my directional antennas, but 
that is all I know.

I need a clutch for my home made car. It has four tires. What clutch will 
work? Give me a part number. Same thing, if you see what I am saying.

73 Tom




From pbaldock at frontier.com  Fri Oct 10 14:13:14 2014
From: pbaldock at frontier.com (Paul Baldock)
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2014 11:13:14 -0700
Subject: Topband: TX relays
In-Reply-To: <3294EC9B630C4F7DA27985AE8BF2A987@MAIN>
References: <FFB95A23BD754472A72871BCEBA7ACDD@MiltVostro2010>
	<5435F220.2080403@karlquist.com> <5435FB36.3010801@karlquist.com>
	<CAHeGVgqKPgGsWBvB1d0B7kv+BeD1R47w24qMaFObYHWgii3Enw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+FxYXiEw60DG0-RTUvmjDL8H-rvWcEddtrcNsmLLqG1mxcsfA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJ_qRvayo7AznV9Z=USMA1D6PAg3_BnqGAb18EpULqaK8VCc1Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+FxYXiCVb8n35Gv9nHXkMrqEkLTARbESPYh26jceRiBYwJkHA@mail.gmail.com>
	<fbb12343191d7.5436dff4@ptt.rs>
	<CA+FxYXi=V=Ga6f2xUUkd0zNCZ1mk+tBc4G+z1w4C1_LOGL1L8g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+FxYXjccTSkwyr-K_crZkoBzm4XGRnO4QB77ou+woqOJcKp6Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<F4E679463F8F4F91A637774C6678F024@MAIN>
	<CA+FxYXhUfpPHkvO0wZr7tM3-aUT5HE+Y5vL3u_6yM8BLd5sCYQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<3294EC9B630C4F7DA27985AE8BF2A987@MAIN>
Message-ID: <20141010181324.5D832AC9BF0@mx.contesting.com>

One solution to the receiving problem when using high current relays 
may be to have dc current (eg 100mA) pass through the contact in RX. 
This would be particularly easy to implement when the antennas are 
zero ohms at DC because the dc current source can then be placed in 
the shack (with a suitable choke to isolate the RF from the supply 
and capacitor to isolate the DC from the rig).

- Paul


From w8ji at w8ji.com  Fri Oct 10 14:34:54 2014
From: w8ji at w8ji.com (Tom W8JI)
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2014 14:34:54 -0400
Subject: Topband: TX relays
References: <FFB95A23BD754472A72871BCEBA7ACDD@MiltVostro2010><5435F220.2080403@karlquist.com>
	<5435FB36.3010801@karlquist.com><CAHeGVgqKPgGsWBvB1d0B7kv+BeD1R47w24qMaFObYHWgii3Enw@mail.gmail.com><CA+FxYXiEw60DG0-RTUvmjDL8H-rvWcEddtrcNsmLLqG1mxcsfA@mail.gmail.com><CAJ_qRvayo7AznV9Z=USMA1D6PAg3_BnqGAb18EpULqaK8VCc1Q@mail.gmail.com><CA+FxYXiCVb8n35Gv9nHXkMrqEkLTARbESPYh26jceRiBYwJkHA@mail.gmail.com><fbb12343191d7.5436dff4@ptt.rs><CA+FxYXi=V=Ga6f2xUUkd0zNCZ1mk+tBc4G+z1w4C1_LOGL1L8g@mail.gmail.com><CA+FxYXjccTSkwyr-K_crZkoBzm4XGRnO4QB77ou+woqOJcKp6Q@mail.gmail.com><F4E679463F8F4F91A637774C6678F024@MAIN><CA+FxYXhUfpPHkvO0wZr7tM3-aUT5HE+Y5vL3u_6yM8BLd5sCYQ@mail.gmail.com><3294EC9B630C4F7DA27985AE8BF2A987@MAIN>
	<20141010181324.5D832AC9BF0@mx.contesting.com>
Message-ID: <267DDE6E6F68433EA256BEF85D74ADB4@MAIN>

> One solution to the receiving problem when using high current relays may 
> be to have dc current (eg 100mA) pass through the contact in RX. This 
> would be particularly easy to implement when the antennas are zero ohms at 
> DC because the dc current source can then be placed in the shack (with a 
> suitable choke to isolate the RF from the supply and capacitor to isolate 
> the DC from the rig).

That's a good suggestion, and I looked at it for amplifiers, but it is 
impractical in some cases because of the "pop" it makes when the contacts 
switch. I can live with it for casual operating, but the AGC pump up kills a 
short signal while the AGC recovers. 


From billw at waveform.net  Fri Oct 10 15:35:19 2014
From: billw at waveform.net (Bill Wichers)
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2014 19:35:19 +0000
Subject: Topband: TX relays
In-Reply-To: <20141010181324.5D832AC9BF0@mx.contesting.com>
References: <FFB95A23BD754472A72871BCEBA7ACDD@MiltVostro2010>
	<5435F220.2080403@karlquist.com> <5435FB36.3010801@karlquist.com>
	<CAHeGVgqKPgGsWBvB1d0B7kv+BeD1R47w24qMaFObYHWgii3Enw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+FxYXiEw60DG0-RTUvmjDL8H-rvWcEddtrcNsmLLqG1mxcsfA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJ_qRvayo7AznV9Z=USMA1D6PAg3_BnqGAb18EpULqaK8VCc1Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+FxYXiCVb8n35Gv9nHXkMrqEkLTARbESPYh26jceRiBYwJkHA@mail.gmail.com>
	<fbb12343191d7.5436dff4@ptt.rs>
	<CA+FxYXi=V=Ga6f2xUUkd0zNCZ1mk+tBc4G+z1w4C1_LOGL1L8g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+FxYXjccTSkwyr-K_crZkoBzm4XGRnO4QB77ou+woqOJcKp6Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<F4E679463F8F4F91A637774C6678F024@MAIN>
	<CA+FxYXhUfpPHkvO0wZr7tM3-aUT5HE+Y5vL3u_6yM8BLd5sCYQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<3294EC9B630C4F7DA27985AE8BF2A987@MAIN>
	<20141010181324.5D832AC9BF0@mx.contesting.com>
Message-ID: <4897906C085783429A2F4B39EBFF44F06C950DEC@Server-01.WaveformTechnology.local>

That is called "sealing current". It's been used in the telecom industry for ages. The spec is <20mA though, and you can get by with only a few mA. It helps to prevent various corrosive forces from damaging contacts in relays and the like over time.

The problem is that every time you switch you will get a very small arc at the contact point and you'll pick some of that up in the receiver. Regardless of the value of the "suitable choke" the arc will have a wide spectral content that will extend up into the lower HF bands.

It might be possible to keep a sealing current on the system when it's not in use, and then go to a regular no-current (dry) system while operating. I'm not sure if that would accomplish the same function as having the current always present though.

   -Bill

> One solution to the receiving problem when using high current relays may be
> to have dc current (eg 100mA) pass through the contact in RX.
> This would be particularly easy to implement when the antennas are zero
> ohms at DC because the dc current source can then be placed in the shack
> (with a suitable choke to isolate the RF from the supply and capacitor to
> isolate the DC from the rig).
> 
> - Paul
> 
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

From km1h at jeremy.qozzy.com  Fri Oct 10 20:35:42 2014
From: km1h at jeremy.qozzy.com (Carl)
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2014 20:35:42 -0400
Subject: Topband: TX relays
References: <FFB95A23BD754472A72871BCEBA7ACDD@MiltVostro2010><78DB20CC-42C8-4933-A58C-1B4A2473A8E4@gmail.com><B821E5F8AF5D4B92AC1A58019A01F1B1@MAIN><9E06E8D108A746F1BC84E60C7568D221@computer1>
	<3EBE2B096ABA459EBF3B8C5D9C448C01@MAIN>
Message-ID: <C0D7A55738E24DB4A5D037E4CA1AD0D1@computer1>

>> Tom still hasnt answered why there is only a $10 price difference between 
>> the RCS-4 and the -8V yet users of the -8V are getting raped for 
>> replacement relays.
>>
>
> I don't know why any public forum allows you to post the vitriol nonsense 
> you post.
>
> Do you ever do anything in life besides insulting others or picking 
> fights?


Typical Tom, accuses others of doing what he does when backed into a corner. 
Others have said the same on here and elsewhere and it is so very obvious.

Im not insulting any person nor can asking for some straight answers be 
considered picking a fight by any stretch of imagination.

Come back when you can actually give an honest and complete answer....for 
once...and stop trying to deflect the subjects.
The Topband members would benefit.

Carl
KM1H



From kelandis at earthlink.net  Fri Oct 10 20:49:02 2014
From: kelandis at earthlink.net (KENT)
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2014 20:49:02 -0400
Subject: Topband: Pissing match
Message-ID: <E66CFA21-3D71-407C-9BBA-3E88F89714EF@earthlink.net>

Wow?seems like Carl and Tom need to do this off list??

73 de Kent
N8ZRD

From aa7jv at atlanticbb.net  Fri Oct 10 22:23:17 2014
From: aa7jv at atlanticbb.net (GeorgeWallner)
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2014 22:23:17 -0400
Subject: Topband: TX relays
In-Reply-To: <20141010181324.5D832AC9BF0@mx.contesting.com>
References: <FFB95A23BD754472A72871BCEBA7ACDD@MiltVostro2010>
	<5435F220.2080403@karlquist.com> <5435FB36.3010801@karlquist.com>
	<CAHeGVgqKPgGsWBvB1d0B7kv+BeD1R47w24qMaFObYHWgii3Enw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+FxYXiEw60DG0-RTUvmjDL8H-rvWcEddtrcNsmLLqG1mxcsfA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJ_qRvayo7AznV9Z=USMA1D6PAg3_BnqGAb18EpULqaK8VCc1Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+FxYXiCVb8n35Gv9nHXkMrqEkLTARbESPYh26jceRiBYwJkHA@mail.gmail.com>
	<fbb12343191d7.5436dff4@ptt.rs>
	<CA+FxYXi=V=Ga6f2xUUkd0zNCZ1mk+tBc4G+z1w4C1_LOGL1L8g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+FxYXjccTSkwyr-K_crZkoBzm4XGRnO4QB77ou+woqOJcKp6Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<F4E679463F8F4F91A637774C6678F024@MAIN>
	<CA+FxYXhUfpPHkvO0wZr7tM3-aUT5HE+Y5vL3u_6yM8BLd5sCYQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<3294EC9B630C4F7DA27985AE8BF2A987@MAIN>
	<20141010181324.5D832AC9BF0@mx.contesting.com>
Message-ID: <web-23778726@be2.cluster1.echolabs.net>

On Fri, 10 Oct 2014 11:13:14 -0700
  Paul Baldock <pbaldock at frontier.com> wrote:
> One solution to the receiving problem when using high 
>current relays may be to have dc current (eg 100mA) pass 
>through the contact in RX. 

1. In all my antenna systems I always use some wetting 
current. I feed from 24 V about 2 mA of DC wetting current 
via a 1 mH choke and a 4k7 resistor at each end. I used to 
have receive problems with all kinds of relays, including 
vacuum relays, before I added the wetting current. Since 
then, all relays have been working perfectly in RX (via 
the normally closed contacts).

2. For TX above 500 W I use vacuum relays. Where the SWR 
is low I use RJ1A (HC-1) or RF1D ((K45C) or similar types 
and where the SWR could be high I use RJ4 (KC-2, KC8 or 
H-8) types. Overkill? Maybe. But...

73,

George
AA7JV

From n4is at comcast.net  Sat Oct 11 00:12:25 2014
From: n4is at comcast.net (JC)
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2014 00:12:25 -0400
Subject: Topband: TX relays
In-Reply-To: <C0D7A55738E24DB4A5D037E4CA1AD0D1@computer1>
References: <FFB95A23BD754472A72871BCEBA7ACDD@MiltVostro2010><78DB20CC-42C8-4933-A58C-1B4A2473A8E4@gmail.com><B821E5F8AF5D4B92AC1A58019A01F1B1@MAIN><9E06E8D108A746F1BC84E60C7568D221@computer1>	<3EBE2B096ABA459EBF3B8C5D9C448C01@MAIN>
	<C0D7A55738E24DB4A5D037E4CA1AD0D1@computer1>
Message-ID: <007801cfe509$90f0f2d0$b2d2d870$@comcast.net>


>>>
Come back when you can actually give an honest and complete answer....for
once...and stop trying to deflect the subjects.
The Topband members would benefit.
<<<

Carl

I really thing you are going too far.  The question was about select a
component to do what it is not supposed to do, those relays  was not
designed for RF, If you want to ask an E. Engineer with decades of
experience to fake a response you want to hear is just unreal.

What do you expect, a live training to explain all you need to know to
understand the answer. It would take 5 years to review college and another
20 years to transfer acknowledgement.

It is like to ask to explain a Duck that can walk, can fly and can swim, all
poorly done, how to do any of it right. The Duck was not designed for that. 

Why just not use RF  relay to do the job it was designed for.. just to save
few bucks. so live with that .. However offending an Engineers that took the
time to explain and transfer value information is not honest . I would like
you to know that you are offending all Engineer's on this group and nobody
is getting any benefit of that.

Please reconsider your comments.

Regards
JC
N4IS



______________
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


From rodenkirch_llc at msn.com  Sat Oct 11 05:10:29 2014
From: rodenkirch_llc at msn.com (James Rodenkirch)
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2014 03:10:29 -0600
Subject: Topband: TX relays
In-Reply-To: <C0D7A55738E24DB4A5D037E4CA1AD0D1@computer1>
References: <FFB95A23BD754472A72871BCEBA7ACDD@MiltVostro2010><78DB20CC-42C8-4933-A58C-1B4A2473A8E4@gmail.com><B821E5F8AF5D4B92AC1A58019A01F1B1@MAIN><9E06E8D108A746F1BC84E60C7568D221@computer1>,
	<3EBE2B096ABA459EBF3B8C5D9C448C01@MAIN>,
	<C0D7A55738E24DB4A5D037E4CA1AD0D1@computer1>
Message-ID: <SNT148-W1307E4491D58F04A73DEE5F0AE0@phx.gbl>

Top Band members will benefit from an end to this squabbling that erupts often 'tween you two!
 
Sheesh - I've been reading the replies from all and have learned quite a bit....until you, Carl, opted to get  into Tom's face for some miniscule reason that dips down into the "minutiae of life"!!
 
Give it a rest, ok????  Tom not answering your petty sniffling over a $10.00 difference 'tween two stinking relays - a tangential topic/subject which has ZERO to do with the original poster's query - outta be sending you a message, Carl!
 
72, Dood.....Jim R. K9JWV

 
> From: km1h at jeremy.qozzy.com
> To: w8ji at w8ji.com; topband at contesting.com
> Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2014 20:35:42 -0400
> Subject: Re: Topband: TX relays
> 
> >> Tom still hasnt answered why there is only a $10 price difference between 
> >> the RCS-4 and the -8V yet users of the -8V are getting raped for 
> >> replacement relays.
> >>
> >
> > I don't know why any public forum allows you to post the vitriol nonsense 
> > you post.
> >
> > Do you ever do anything in life besides insulting others or picking 
> > fights?
> 
> 
> Typical Tom, accuses others of doing what he does when backed into a corner. 
> Others have said the same on here and elsewhere and it is so very obvious.
> 
> Im not insulting any person nor can asking for some straight answers be 
> considered picking a fight by any stretch of imagination.
> 
> Come back when you can actually give an honest and complete answer....for 
> once...and stop trying to deflect the subjects.
> The Topband members would benefit.
> 
> Carl
> KM1H
> 
> 
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
 		 	   		  

From tree at kkn.net  Sun Oct 12 11:57:39 2014
From: tree at kkn.net (Tree)
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2014 08:57:39 -0700
Subject: Topband: Summer Stew Perry results on line
Message-ID: <CAKF9HhaqQS8X=AMO=dStizorzpA5J8Sdu5AtLrBxKp5zVc1B-g@mail.gmail.com>

The results for the Summer Stew are now online.

http://www.kkn.net/stew/2014SummerStew.txt

Congrats to Eric - NO3M - on submitting a golden log and just edging out
KV4FZ for top high power honors.  K1LT led the way for the low power scores
and AC8AP led the list of six brave souls who showed up with QRP.

The PreStew is coming up next weekend.  Hope you can get on for this
event.  Full rules and results can be found here:

http://www.kkn.net/stew/

73 Tree N6TR
tree at kkn.net

From km1h at jeremy.qozzy.com  Sat Oct 11 12:26:47 2014
From: km1h at jeremy.qozzy.com (Carl)
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2014 12:26:47 -0400
Subject: Topband: TX relays
References: <FFB95A23BD754472A72871BCEBA7ACDD@MiltVostro2010><5435F220.2080403@karlquist.com>
	<5435FB36.3010801@karlquist.com><CAHeGVgqKPgGsWBvB1d0B7kv+BeD1R47w24qMaFObYHWgii3Enw@mail.gmail.com><CA+FxYXiEw60DG0-RTUvmjDL8H-rvWcEddtrcNsmLLqG1mxcsfA@mail.gmail.com><CAJ_qRvayo7AznV9Z=USMA1D6PAg3_BnqGAb18EpULqaK8VCc1Q@mail.gmail.com><CA+FxYXiCVb8n35Gv9nHXkMrqEkLTARbESPYh26jceRiBYwJkHA@mail.gmail.com><fbb12343191d7.5436dff4@ptt.rs><CA+FxYXi=V=Ga6f2xUUkd0zNCZ1mk+tBc4G+z1w4C1_LOGL1L8g@mail.gmail.com><CA+FxYXjccTSkwyr-K_crZkoBzm4XGRnO4QB77ou+woqOJcKp6Q@mail.gmail.com><F4E679463F8F4F91A637774C6678F024@MAIN><CA+FxYXhUfpPHkvO0wZr7tM3-aUT5HE+Y5vL3u_6yM8BLd5sCYQ@mail.gmail.com><3294EC9B630C4F7DA27985AE8BF2A987@MAIN><20141010181324.5D832AC9BF0@mx.contesting.com>
	<web-23778726@be2.cluster1.echolabs.net>
Message-ID: <152A9DAB5F484CD09F3AE90A9AFC4445@computer1>

 Ive found over the years, going back to using a RCS-4 in the 80's to switch 
Beverages, that a tiny drop of DeOxit D-100 eliminates the receiving 
problem. It also works on amp bypass path contacts.

Since the common TX/RX path in an antenna/stack switch is always getting 
wiped I havent noticed any problem there and wouldnt want to use DeOxit at 
more than 100W or so anyway.

Just a tiny as possible drop applied with a pointy implement does the job. I 
use a face magnifier to be sure it goes where it should.

The vacuum relay in my 1986 LK-500ZC gets a low current in the RX path every 
5 years or so; only the first time did it really need it, the rest is PM.

Carl
KM1H


> On Fri, 10 Oct 2014 11:13:14 -0700
>  Paul Baldock <pbaldock at frontier.com> wrote:
>> One solution to the receiving problem when using high current relays may 
>> be to have dc current (eg 100mA) pass through the contact in RX.
>
> 1. In all my antenna systems I always use some wetting current. I feed 
> from 24 V about 2 mA of DC wetting current via a 1 mH choke and a 4k7 
> resistor at each end. I used to have receive problems with all kinds of 
> relays, including vacuum relays, before I added the wetting current. Since 
> then, all relays have been working perfectly in RX (via the normally 
> closed contacts).
>
> 2. For TX above 500 W I use vacuum relays. Where the SWR is low I use RJ1A 
> (HC-1) or RF1D ((K45C) or similar types and where the SWR could be high I 
> use RJ4 (KC-2, KC8 or H-8) types. Overkill? Maybe. But...
>
> 73,
>
> George
> AA7JV
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2014.0.4765 / Virus Database: 4040/8362 - Release Date: 10/10/14
> 


From vtnn43e at comcast.net  Mon Oct 13 10:34:26 2014
From: vtnn43e at comcast.net (vtnn43e at comcast.net)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2014 14:34:26 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Topband: worse
Message-ID: <2107863940.8823074.1413210866916.JavaMail.root@comcast.net>

http://www.studiobombardieri.it/b9gty6h7n8m0k1i2n3j4u5.php









>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
From: vtnn43e 13.10.2014 18:34:25

From richard at karlquist.com  Mon Oct 13 14:35:20 2014
From: richard at karlquist.com (Richard (Rick) Karlquist)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2014 11:35:20 -0700
Subject: Topband: Summer Stew Perry results on line
In-Reply-To: <CAKF9HhaqQS8X=AMO=dStizorzpA5J8Sdu5AtLrBxKp5zVc1B-g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKF9HhaqQS8X=AMO=dStizorzpA5J8Sdu5AtLrBxKp5zVc1B-g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <543C1B68.4070808@karlquist.com>

Only two stations as far west as a "D" grid
square, and they only accounted for 27 QSO's
between them.  I should have gotten on to give
out a token "C" grid.  (That weekend was bad for
me this year, I was busy getting ready for
Field Day).  I would also suggest for the
summer stew that everyone run QRO, if
they can, to overcome the usual QRN, and to
boost activity.  This is not the time to
show off what you can do with QRP.  And a
reminder to our friends in New England
that California is worth almost as many
points for you as Europe, in this contest.
(Thanks, Tree, for inventing this scoring
system).

Rick N6RK
CM98

On 10/12/2014 8:57 AM, Tree wrote:
> The results for the Summer Stew are now online.
>
> http://www.kkn.net/stew/2014SummerStew.txt
>
> Congrats to Eric - NO3M - on submitting a golden log and just edging out
> KV4FZ for top high power honors.  K1LT led the way for the low power scores
> and AC8AP led the list of six brave souls who showed up with QRP.
>
> The PreStew is coming up next weekend.  Hope you can get on for this
> event.  Full rules and results can be found here:
>
> http://www.kkn.net/stew/
>
> 73 Tree N6TR
> tree at kkn.net
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
>

From k4zw at verizon.net  Mon Oct 13 18:01:55 2014
From: k4zw at verizon.net (Ken Claerbout)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2014 18:01:55 -0400
Subject: Topband: TX relays
Message-ID: <235327A9F7744094B6F1ED08D1094A52@KenPC>

Milt's question was a good one and it got my interest since I am in the 
process of building an 80 meter transmit array.  It's unfortunate the 
discussion tuned into an excrement fest but it shouldn't come as a surprise. 
People are who they are.  Thanks to those who provided useful comments.

I looked over data sheets for a variety of DPDT relays but eventually bought 
mine from Array Solutions.  Why?  There were a lot of choices and I really 
wasn't sure which was best suited for my application.  I figured, and time 
will tell, that they have been used in enough applications and potential 
issues should have been sorted out by now.  Might there be something better 
or could I have got them cheaper?  Maybe.  But I don't have time to analyze 
this to the nth degree.  The project moves forward.

73
Ken K4ZW 


From richard at karlquist.com  Mon Oct 13 18:53:23 2014
From: richard at karlquist.com (Richard (Rick) Karlquist)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2014 15:53:23 -0700
Subject: Topband: TX relays
In-Reply-To: <235327A9F7744094B6F1ED08D1094A52@KenPC>
References: <235327A9F7744094B6F1ED08D1094A52@KenPC>
Message-ID: <543C57E3.9070209@karlquist.com>

> I looked over data sheets for a variety of DPDT relays but eventually
> bought mine from Array Solutions.  Why?  There were a lot of choices and
> I really wasn't sure which was best suited for my application.  I

I had already bought these from Mouser before knowing
that Array Solutions also sold them.  Surprisingly,
they are actually cheaper from Array Solutions than
Mouser, at least in ham quantities.  One of the things
I like on these is the standard spade lugs that mate
with standard crimp-on receptacles.

Rick N6RK

From pbaldock at frontier.com  Mon Oct 13 21:12:33 2014
From: pbaldock at frontier.com (Paul Baldock)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2014 18:12:33 -0700
Subject: Topband: TX relays
In-Reply-To: <543C57E3.9070209@karlquist.com>
References: <235327A9F7744094B6F1ED08D1094A52@KenPC>
	<543C57E3.9070209@karlquist.com>
Message-ID: <20141014011239.9DCE4AC9AFD@mx.contesting.com>

What's the Mouser Part Number?

- Paul


At 03:53 PM 10/13/2014, Richard (Rick) Karlquist wrote:
>>I looked over data sheets for a variety of DPDT relays but eventually
>>bought mine from Array Solutions.  Why?  There were a lot of choices and
>>I really wasn't sure which was best suited for my application.  I
>
>I had already bought these from Mouser before knowing
>that Array Solutions also sold them.  Surprisingly,
>they are actually cheaper from Array Solutions than
>Mouser, at least in ham quantities.  One of the things
>I like on these is the standard spade lugs that mate
>with standard crimp-on receptacles.
>
>Rick N6RK
>_________________
>Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
>
>-----
>No virus found in this message.
>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>Version: 2014.0.4765 / Virus Database: 4040/8381 - Release Date: 10/13/14


From richard at karlquist.com  Tue Oct 14 12:29:15 2014
From: richard at karlquist.com (Richard (Rick) Karlquist)
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2014 09:29:15 -0700
Subject: Topband: TX relays
In-Reply-To: <201410140112.s9E1Cds0024871@m.mx.sonic.net>
References: <235327A9F7744094B6F1ED08D1094A52@KenPC>
	<543C57E3.9070209@karlquist.com>
	<201410140112.s9E1Cds0024871@m.mx.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <543D4F5B.9020406@karlquist.com>

On 10/13/2014 6:12 PM, Paul Baldock wrote:
> What's the Mouser Part Number?
>
> - Paul

See them all at:

http://www.mouser.com/catalog/catalogusd/647/2105.pdf

The Array Solutions offering seems to be this part number:

Mouser SKU:  653-MJN2CE-DC12
Omron P/N:  MJN2CE-DC12

The plastic mounting feet are a fairly unique feature
on these that I immediately recognized, so I am confident
that I have this right.

Mouser also carries the 10A versions that plug into sockets.
There are some additional models on the Omron
site that Mouser doesn't carry.

Rick N6RK

From grants2 at pacbell.net  Thu Oct 16 17:17:32 2014
From: grants2 at pacbell.net (Grant Saviers)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2014 21:17:32 -0000
Subject: Topband: Beverage wire question
In-Reply-To: <1009D13E05AA4A608A251B7C4ABCB6A7@hardy998140597>
References: <01b201cf648a$b0b4b110$121e1330$@miamioh.edu>	<wSg41n00g32TbLd01Sg7kw>
	<1009D13E05AA4A608A251B7C4ABCB6A7@hardy998140597>
Message-ID: <5362A2C8.1080307@pacbell.net>

Is there any advantage to open wire line construction vs the 
bidirectional coax Beverage that ON4UN describes?  RG6 is cheap and 
strong with a copperweld core or use any other coax from CATV surplus to 
RG58/59.  Some are UV resistant, flooded, etc. The only downside I see 
is two transformers and two feedlines are required and perhaps a db or 
two loss for the reverse direction, which really doesn't matter.  A plus 
is no relays.  A coax version sure is simpler to build and maintain.  Of 
course coax doesn't have the classic Beverage look ;-)

Grant KZ1W

see also http://w4hod.org/K4IQJ%20Beverage%20Talk.pdf  for other 
alternative designs.


On 5/1/2014 8:12 AM, Hardy Landskov wrote:
> I've used window line for many years and it is a maintenance hassle. 
> The heat and UV here in AZ just eats the stuff up where it has to be 
> replaced every 5 years or so, and I do twist the line. The last wind 
> storm we had ripped the line right out of the DXE black plastic 
> insulators which are not all that good either.
> So I am looking with keen interest at all these homebrew 
> open-wire-line construction techniques.
> YMMV.
> 73 Hardy N7RT
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Waters" <mikewate at gmail.com>
> To: "Jim Garland" <4cx250b at miamioh.edu>
> Cc: "topband" <Topband at contesting.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 7:39 PM
> Subject: Re: Topband: Beverage wire question
>
>
>> Jim,
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 30, 2014 at 10:41 AM, Jim Garland <4cx250b at miamioh.edu> 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I've been using 450 ohm ladder line ... and the ladder line requires
>>> constant maintenance.
>>
>>
>> I've heard that twisting that line solves the breakage issues. You need
>> many twists in the entire length of the line.
>>
>>
>>
>>> I want to replace it with parallel wires, which run through ceramic
>>> feedthrough insulators
>>
>>
>> And, I've heard that running wire through ceramic insulators like 
>> that will
>> eventually abrade the wire. Holes in ceramic insulators are usually 
>> quite
>> rough.
>>
>>
>> I have no experience with either of the above. Here, we use plastic
>> electric fence and homebrew plastic insulators; and the wire drops 
>> into a
>> slot instead of having to string it through a hole. Works for me.
>>
>> I think there's some photos at 
>> http://www.w0btu.com/Beverage_antennas.html .
>>
>> 73, Mike
>> www.w0btu.com
>> _________________
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>
>
>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>


From 4cx250b at miamioh.edu  Thu Oct 16 20:35:28 2014
From: 4cx250b at miamioh.edu (Jim Garland)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2014 18:35:28 -0600
Subject: Topband: Beverage wire question
In-Reply-To: <5362A2C8.1080307@pacbell.net>
References: <01b201cf648a$b0b4b110$121e1330$@miamioh.edu><wSg41n00g32TbLd01Sg7kw>
	<1009D13E05AA4A608A251B7C4ABCB6A7@hardy998140597>
	<5362A2C8.1080307@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <13CA09B2529E496EAB53D94A207F5563@WORKSHOP>

Just last week, I replaced the DXE ladder line (a maintenance headache, as
Hardy notes) in my two bidirectional 720 ft beverages with WD-1/TT field
telephone wire (the twisted pair version of WD-1), running both strands of
the twisted pair for each leg of the beverages. The wire is fabulous stuff,
with four conductors of tinned copper and three steel conductors in tough
wx-proof PVC insulation. I supported the wire every 60 ft with 4x4 wood
posts by threading it loosely through two porcelain screw-in electric fence
insulators atop each post. The insulators are widely available on-line
(Tru-Value Hdwe, Home Depot, etc.) and cost about $1.50 each. The holes have
smooth sides and I don't expect any wire abrasion.

The wire was attached only at the (back-guyed) end posts with roughly 75-100
lbs of tension, the tension in the parallel wires was equalized with a
pulley at one end. The spacing between the insulators was 50mm. The wire
(bought from eBay) cost $50 (shipped) in 1/2 mile lengths in canvas
dispensers. Attached are photos of the key parts of the installation.

I've not run quantitative tests of the performance, but subjectively it
appears the same as with the ladder line. I didn't change any of the
switching or matching transformers from those supplied by DXE. The F/B ratio
varies with time of day and the distance of the received station, but is in
excess of 20dB on 1.8MHz for JA stations in the morning. The antenna is very
quiet, and I can easily copy stations I can't begin to hear on my
transmitting vertical or my 80m inverted vee.  I feel quite good about the
mechanical benefits of using the field telephone wire instead of ladder
line, and am confident it will wear much better. I've had a few strong winds
(40mph) in the past week and it barely waves in the wind.
73,
Jim W8ZR 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Grant Saviers [mailto:grants2 at pacbell.net]
> Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2014 1:39 PM
> To: Hardy Landskov; Mike Waters; Jim Garland
> Cc: topband
> Subject: Re: Topband: Beverage wire question
> 
> Is there any advantage to open wire line construction vs the
> bidirectional coax Beverage that ON4UN describes?  RG6 is cheap and
> strong with a copperweld core or use any other coax from CATV surplus to
> RG58/59.  Some are UV resistant, flooded, etc. The only downside I see
> is two transformers and two feedlines are required and perhaps a db or
> two loss for the reverse direction, which really doesn't matter.  A plus
> is no relays.  A coax version sure is simpler to build and maintain.  Of
> course coax doesn't have the classic Beverage look ;-)
> 
> Grant KZ1W
> 
> see also http://w4hod.org/K4IQJ%20Beverage%20Talk.pdf  for other
> alternative designs.
> 
> 
> On 5/1/2014 8:12 AM, Hardy Landskov wrote:
> > I've used window line for many years and it is a maintenance hassle.
> > The heat and UV here in AZ just eats the stuff up where it has to be
> > replaced every 5 years or so, and I do twist the line. The last wind
> > storm we had ripped the line right out of the DXE black plastic
> > insulators which are not all that good either.
> > So I am looking with keen interest at all these homebrew
> > open-wire-line construction techniques.
> > YMMV.
> > 73 Hardy N7RT
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Waters" <mikewate at gmail.com>
> > To: "Jim Garland" <4cx250b at miamioh.edu>
> > Cc: "topband" <Topband at contesting.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 7:39 PM
> > Subject: Re: Topband: Beverage wire question
> >
> >
> >> Jim,
> >>
> >> On Wed, Apr 30, 2014 at 10:41 AM, Jim Garland <4cx250b at miamioh.edu>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> I've been using 450 ohm ladder line ... and the ladder line requires
> >>> constant maintenance.
> >>
> >>
> >> I've heard that twisting that line solves the breakage issues. You need
> >> many twists in the entire length of the line.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> I want to replace it with parallel wires, which run through ceramic
> >>> feedthrough insulators
> >>
> >>
> >> And, I've heard that running wire through ceramic insulators like
> >> that will
> >> eventually abrade the wire. Holes in ceramic insulators are usually
> >> quite
> >> rough.
> >>
> >>
> >> I have no experience with either of the above. Here, we use plastic
> >> electric fence and homebrew plastic insulators; and the wire drops
> >> into a
> >> slot instead of having to string it through a hole. Works for me.
> >>
> >> I think there's some photos at
> >> http://www.w0btu.com/Beverage_antennas.html .
> >>
> >> 73, Mike
> >> www.w0btu.com
> >> _________________
> >> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> >>
> >
> >
> > _________________
> > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> >


From 4cx250b at miamioh.edu  Thu Oct 16 20:37:54 2014
From: 4cx250b at miamioh.edu (Jim Garland)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2014 18:37:54 -0600
Subject: Topband: Beverage wire question
References: <01b201cf648a$b0b4b110$121e1330$@miamioh.edu><wSg41n00g32TbLd01Sg7kw>
	<1009D13E05AA4A608A251B7C4ABCB6A7@hardy998140597>
	<5362A2C8.1080307@pacbell.net> 
Message-ID: <EB0D58785C8649129B6A46FD07367465@WORKSHOP>


Oops, forgot to attach one of the photos. Here it is.
Jim

From k1fz at myfairpoint.net  Thu Oct 16 20:55:00 2014
From: k1fz at myfairpoint.net (k1fz at myfairpoint.net)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2014 20:55:00 -0400
Subject: Topband: Beverage wire question
In-Reply-To: <5362A2C8.1080307@pacbell.net>
References: <01b201cf648a$b0b4b110$121e1330$@miamioh.edu>
	<wSg41n00g32TbLd01Sg7kw>
	<1009D13E05AA4A608A251B7C4ABCB6A7@hardy998140597>
	<5362A2C8.1080307@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <20141016205500.o1h9bade88goswsw@webmail.myfairpoint.net>



Open wire electric fence wire works well

www.qsl.net/k1fz/beveragenotes.html

73
Bruce-K1FZ

On Thu, 01 May 2014 12:38:48 -0700, Grant Saviers  wrote:

       Is there any advantage to open wire line construction vs the
bidirectional coax Beverage that ON4UN describes?  RG6 is cheap and
strong with a copperweld core or use any other coax from CATV surplus to
RG58/59.  Some are UV resistant, flooded, etc. The only downside I see
is two transformers and two feedlines are required and perhaps a db or
two loss for the reverse direction, which really doesn't matter.  A plus
is no relays.  A coax version sure is simpler to build and maintain.  Of
course coax doesn't have the classic Beverage look ;-)

Grant KZ1W

see also http://w4hod.org/K4IQJ%20Beverage%20Talk.pdf  for other
alternative designs. 

On 5/1/2014 8:12 AM, Hardy Landskov wrote:
> I've used window line for many years and it is a maintenance hassle. 
> The heat and UV here in AZ just eats the stuff up where it has to be 
> replaced every 5 years or so, and I do twist the line. The last wind 
> storm we had ripped the line right out of the DXE black plastic 
> insulators which are not all that good either. 
> So I am looking with keen interest at all these homebrew 
> open-wire-line construction techniques. 
> YMMV. 
> 73 Hardy N7RT
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Waters" To: "Jim Garland" 
> Cc: "topband" Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 7:39 PM
> Subject: Re: Topband: Beverage wire question
>
>
>> Jim,
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 30, 2014 at 10:41 AM, Jim Garland  wrote:
>>
>>> I've been using 450 ohm ladder line ... and the ladder line requires
>>> constant maintenance. 
>>
>>
>> I've heard that twisting that line solves the breakage issues. You need
>> many twists in the entire length of the line. 
>>
>>
>>
>>> I want to replace it with parallel wires, which run through ceramic
>>> feedthrough insulators
>>
>>
>> And, I've heard that running wire through ceramic insulators like that will
>> eventually abrade the wire. Holes in ceramic insulators are usually quite
>> rough. 
>>
>>
>> I have no experience with either of the above. Here, we use plastic
>> electric fence and homebrew plastic insulators; and the wire drops into a
>> slot instead of having to string it through a hole. Works for me. 
>>
>> I think there's some photos at http://www.w0btu.com/Beverage_antennas.html . 
>>
>> 73, Mike
>> www.w0btu.com
>> _________________
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>
>
>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>

_________________
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband



From w8ji at w8ji.com  Fri Oct 17 06:37:20 2014
From: w8ji at w8ji.com (Tom W8JI)
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2014 06:37:20 -0400
Subject: Topband: Beverage wire question
References: <01b201cf648a$b0b4b110$121e1330$@miamioh.edu><wSg41n00g32TbLd01Sg7kw><1009D13E05AA4A608A251B7C4ABCB6A7@hardy998140597><5362A2C8.1080307@pacbell.net>
	<13CA09B2529E496EAB53D94A207F5563@WORKSHOP>
Message-ID: <B305EA49134C4B2B850ED73A6DD00E07@MAIN>

> I've not run quantitative tests of the performance, but subjectively it
> appears the same as with the ladder line. I didn't change any of the
> switching or matching transformers from those supplied by DXE. The F/B 
> ratio
> varies with time of day and the distance of the received station, but is 
> in
> excess of 20dB on 1.8MHz for JA stations in the morning. The antenna is 
> very
> quiet, and I can easily copy stations I can't begin to hear on my
> transmitting vertical or my 80m inverted vee.  I feel quite good about the
> mechanical benefits of using the field telephone wire instead of ladder
> line, and am confident it will wear much better. I've had a few strong 
> winds
> (40mph) in the past week and it barely waves in the wind.

Jim and all,

Impedance of the feedline as a transmission line primarily affects 
termination impedance in the null direction when the null direction is at 
the far (remote) end of the antenna, away from the feedline end.

Line impedance has no effect on F/B ratio or pattern with the antenna aimed 
in the direction of the feedline end.  A mismatched transmission line 
antenna mode simply results in a small additional loss of both signal level 
and noise at equal rates, with no change in pattern.

As with any transmission line, the effect of that mismatch is periodic with 
frequency as it relates to electrical length. The effect is absolutely no 
different than connecting any terminating resistance to the far end of the 
antenna through a very long transmission line.

When the antenna far end is "matched" to the termination resistance and 
transmission line impedance, it operates like a system with low SWR. The 
termination (at the far end) is uniform in value regardless of frequency. 
This is the ideal design case.

When the antenna wire's transmission line mode impedance mismatches the 
termination system impedance, the termination now appears though a very long 
mismatched transmission line. This results in a cycle of impedances that 
will cross the optimum termination impedance when the antenna length happens 
to be at "lucky multiples" of length.

It is really not much different than feeding a dummy load through a very 
long transmission line and watching SWR vary with frequency.

What this all means is with some antenna electrical lengths and line 
impedances  in differential (transmission line mode), the system behaves 
almost like a perfectly designed system. You will not notice the mismatched 
transmission line mode impedances. At other frequencies, generally peaking 
at or around odd-quarter waves of electrical length in transmission line 
mode behavior of the antenna line, the mistermination will be at a division 
or multiple of SWR on the line.  If the line transmission mode impedance is 
100 ohms (and we consider it lossless for this simple discussion) the 
termination in a 500 ohm designed system will vary from 20 ohms to 500 ohms 
with frequency.

The same thing happens, of course, when the transmission line mode is 
inserted on the receiver side of the antenna system, but we generally have 
so much signal and noise level we never notice the degradation caused by 
mismatch.

A snapshot at one frequency in one direction doesn't mean anything for some 
other frequency and/or direction.  It hurts the far end termination most 
when the electrical transmission line length is around an odd quarter wave, 
and doesn't hurt at all when the line is around 1/2 wave electrical.  It 
hurts the far end termination pattern, but not the near end termination 
pattern.

73 Tom 


From mikewate at gmail.com  Fri Oct 17 06:53:14 2014
From: mikewate at gmail.com (Mike Waters)
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2014 05:53:14 -0500
Subject: Topband: Beverage wire question
In-Reply-To: <B305EA49134C4B2B850ED73A6DD00E07@MAIN>
References: <01b201cf648a$b0b4b110$121e1330$@miamioh.edu>
	<1009D13E05AA4A608A251B7C4ABCB6A7@hardy998140597>
	<5362A2C8.1080307@pacbell.net>
	<13CA09B2529E496EAB53D94A207F5563@WORKSHOP>
	<B305EA49134C4B2B850ED73A6DD00E07@MAIN>
Message-ID: <CA+FxYXg9Rtp1mW27XFe+sBFF_b9gQ4uS=21wWNy_4qWhNnJtqg@mail.gmail.com>

I started to write a similar reply myself about 30 minutes ago, and then I
noticed what he was doing with the WD-1. :-)

I didn't do any math, but just looking at Jim's photos (1 attached) and
text, perhaps the DXE transformers he is using are close enough. Note that
Jim has two runs of WD-1 shorted at each end and spaced ~50mm. I'll bet the
line Z is not that far off of the DXE OWL.

I was wondering how smooth the inside of those ceramic insulators are. If
they are as rough as the ones I have, it could wear away the WD-1 over time.

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com

On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 5:37 AM, Tom W8JI <w8ji at w8ji.com> wrote:

>  As with any transmission line, the effect of that mismatch is periodic
> with frequency ...  If the line transmission mode impedance is 100 ohms ...
>

From mikewate at gmail.com  Fri Oct 17 09:38:29 2014
From: mikewate at gmail.com (Mike Waters)
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2014 08:38:29 -0500
Subject: Topband: Stew Perry QRN forecast
Message-ID: <CA+FxYXjjie+gJW9xHS7HpP7-9LVDtpL-hGvZrfbQZ9De9fD2WA@mail.gmail.com>

The pre-Stew 160 contest is this weekend. And from what I can tell from
several WX forecasts, the 48 states will be lightning-free this year! :-)

Note: the correct dates are at http://www.kkn.net/stew/ BUT the dates
listed in the rules are for last year's.

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com

From topband at contesting.com  Fri Oct 17 15:41:01 2014
From: topband at contesting.com (Eduardo Araujo via Topband)
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2014 12:41:01 -0700
Subject: Topband: 160 mts try with LU2DKT
Message-ID: <1413574861.99331.YahooMailNeo@web160703.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Hello topbanders, 

                            trying to be ready for CQWWSSB next weekend, I am planning to go to the station a few days before the contest to get the station in order, specially the new antennas.

So, in spite of conditions from here are horrible on low bands lately, anyone woud like a QSO try with LU land? If so, please drop me a note directly and If it would be on CW, It would be a very low speed, no more than 10wpm


I will be ready for the try starting probably on this Tuesday night, and once there, my access to internet will be highly limited to a few per day till the day of the contest where it will be none.

Regards to all...... Eddie, LU2DKT

From k9fd at flex.com  Fri Oct 17 20:43:44 2014
From: k9fd at flex.com (Merv Schweigert)
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2014 14:43:44 -1000
Subject: Topband: Top band Conditions
In-Reply-To: <1413574861.99331.YahooMailNeo@web160703.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <1413574861.99331.YahooMailNeo@web160703.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5441B7C0.3090207@flex.com>

Is this a slow year or is it just me..  have been listening on and off
for a month at sunrise and its very few and far between signals,
Caught VK9, E51, C21 etc,  no new ones but at least some activity.

Have seen some interesting conditions a couple times,  there are
some "beacons" down at 1800 and at least twice now I have seen
these pop out of the noise and good copy,  but only for at most
5 mins time.
This morning they popped up again about 1520Z and were from
1797 up the band to maybe 1810,  heard at least 15 of them.  I
think in years gone by someone stated they were Russian beacons
but my memory does not remember the location.
In any case its interesting to see them come out of nowhere for a
few mins and fade away into nothing again,  coorelates with the
band being "open" an hour before sunrise ..

For the Stew its worth taking a good look around,  may be a path
open for a few mins to some good mults.
At the same time there were a few JA signals on but they were
very weak compared to normal.

I have been hanging out down on 475KHZ for a few weeks,  just
receiving so far, working on an amplifier and tuner for the antenna,
and will be transmitting soon I hope,  so far have copied east to
PA,  daily into TX, KL7, of course west coast,  quite amazing what
a couple watts does at that freq.
73 Merv K9FD/KH6     WH2XCR


From vu2abs at gmail.com  Fri Oct 17 23:25:56 2014
From: vu2abs at gmail.com (Aravind Balasubramanian (VU2ABS))
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2014 08:55:56 +0530
Subject: Topband: Fwd: [N1MM] Call History for Stew Perry
In-Reply-To: <yfmr3y6rrwb.wl-makoto@ki.nu>
References: <yfmr3y6rrwb.wl-makoto@ki.nu>
Message-ID: <5441DDC4.5080804@gmail.com>

Nice compilation. I believe it should also be of use here too.

Not a single VU entry ;-(

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: 	[N1MM] Call History for Stew Perry
Date: 	Sat, 18 Oct 2014 12:14:12 +0900
From: 	JA1XMS Makoto makoto at ki.nu [N1MMLogger] <N1MMLogger at yahoogroups.com>
Reply-To: 	N1MMLogger at yahoogroups.com
To: 	<N1MMLogger at yahoogroups.com>



I've compiled the Call History lookup file for Stew Perry.
http://www.ki.nu/~makoto/ham-radio/n1mm/stew-perry-2007-2013-w-years.txt
It is from 2007-2013 contest results. Sorted by Grid and then callsign.
It shows years history and even the difference if exists.
(Don't blame if there is a mistake and/or inconsistency.)

I hope you enjoy this setup,
Thanks a lot,
---
Makoto Fujiwara
JA1XMS
Chiba Japan, Narita Airport and Disneyland Prefecture

__._,_.___
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted by: JA1XMS Makoto <makoto at ki.nu>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From Gary at ka1j.com  Fri Oct 17 23:27:14 2014
From: Gary at ka1j.com (Gary Smith)
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2014 23:27:14 -0400
Subject: Topband: Top band Conditions
In-Reply-To: <5441B7C0.3090207@flex.com>
References: <1413574861.99331.YahooMailNeo@web160703.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>,
	<5441B7C0.3090207@flex.com>
Message-ID: <5441DE12.8974.65DFC88@Gary.ka1j.com>

I always have a tough time with Topband but this year has been pretty 
dry so far. I haven't been able to hear the VK9 or any "rare" DX from 
this location. Hoping that will change. The street light in front of 
the house makes a lot of QRM and so far the power company hasn't seen 
fit to replace it. That'll probably help some but still, I'm not 
hearing what I did on TB a couple years ago or even last year. 
Haven't worked a new one on 160 in about a year now.

Yeah, it's slow.

73,

Gary KA1J

> Is this a slow year or is it just me..  have been listening on and off
> for a month at sunrise and its very few and far between signals,
> Caught VK9, E51, C21 etc,  no new ones but at least some activity.
> 
> Have seen some interesting conditions a couple times,  there are
> some "beacons" down at 1800 and at least twice now I have seen
> these pop out of the noise and good copy,  but only for at most
> 5 mins time.
> This morning they popped up again about 1520Z and were from
> 1797 up the band to maybe 1810,  heard at least 15 of them.  I
> think in years gone by someone stated they were Russian beacons
> but my memory does not remember the location.
> In any case its interesting to see them come out of nowhere for a
> few mins and fade away into nothing again,  coorelates with the
> band being "open" an hour before sunrise ..
> 
> For the Stew its worth taking a good look around,  may be a path
> open for a few mins to some good mults.
> At the same time there were a few JA signals on but they were
> very weak compared to normal.
> 
> I have been hanging out down on 475KHZ for a few weeks,  just
> receiving so far, working on an amplifier and tuner for the antenna,
> and will be transmitting soon I hope,  so far have copied east to
> PA,  daily into TX, KL7, of course west coast,  quite amazing what
> a couple watts does at that freq.
> 73 Merv K9FD/KH6     WH2XCR
> 
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> 




---
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From rayn6vr at cableone.net  Sat Oct 18 05:24:33 2014
From: rayn6vr at cableone.net (Ray Benny)
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2014 02:24:33 -0700
Subject: Topband: Suggestion for RX Antenna control box/switching box
Message-ID: <CAC716YbcA4LaDKKfVU_nSfZOf9Nw5PE9m9ytdGV3yLw+89etBA@mail.gmail.com>

I'm trying to figure out in my mind how to build a box that will allow me
to select a HiZ 4 square, two beverages, an RX loop, and switch in an MFJ
1026 Noise Cancelling device using the listed RX antennas - to two radios
using their external RX antenna jack. I know that I need to be concerned
with isolation and grounding. Can I use several older ceramic rotary
switches, relays or what?

How do some of you do it? Can you share a block diagram, a schematic and
maybe some construction notes?

I appreciate your input!

Ray,
N6VR

From herbert.schoenbohm at gmail.com  Sat Oct 18 07:01:00 2014
From: herbert.schoenbohm at gmail.com (Herbert Schoenbohm)
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2014 07:01:00 -0400
Subject: Topband: Fwd: Re: Suggestion for RX Antenna control box/switching
 box
In-Reply-To: <54424190.8030105@gmail.com>
References: <54424190.8030105@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5442486C.1070904@gmail.com>



Ray,  I have found on Ebay some push button video switchers that have
both UHF and BNC connectors. One nice thing about these units, apart
from the low priced as TV station surplus throw aways, is the fact that
they all terminate in 75 ohms on every unused port. I have several 6X1,
a 3X1, and even a 12X1 unit  Some have illumination for the selected
button which is a feature I do not use. Even though they are designed
for video they have excellent isolation on 160 meters.  I bought both
rack mount units and non-rack mount boxes and use them to route and
switch the RX antennas to several units including an MFJ 1026 Noise
Cancellation box. The only drawback is that there is in shack (not in
the RX) an audible pop they make when a selection is made.  This on VOX
operation is sharp enough to trigger the VOX.  I hope that some day I
can find a similar switch that works with multiple miniature relays with
termination of unused ports. Ever better would be an on screen computer
controlled remote switch that could be mounted outside where all the
feedlines shields  are individual grounded via several 2.5 inch
toroids.  This termination is suggested since I use  two wire Beverages
and the RG-6 feedlines are cut for multiples of half waves so the
termination in the shack appears at the Beverage feed point.



Herb Schoenbohm, KV4FZ


On 10/18/2014 5:24 AM, Ray Benny wrote:
> I'm trying to figure out in my mind how to build a box that will allow me
> to select a HiZ 4 square, two beverages, an RX loop, and switch in an MFJ
> 1026 Noise Cancelling device using the listed RX antennas - to two radios
> using their external RX antenna jack. I know that I need to be concerned
> with isolation and grounding. Can I use several older ceramic rotary
> switches, relays or what?
>
> How do some of you do it? Can you share a block diagram, a schematic and
> maybe some construction notes?
>
> I appreciate your input!
>
> Ray,
> N6VR
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband




From w8ji at w8ji.com  Sat Oct 18 08:14:04 2014
From: w8ji at w8ji.com (Tom W8JI)
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2014 08:14:04 -0400
Subject: Topband: Suggestion for RX Antenna control box/switching box
References: <CAC716YbcA4LaDKKfVU_nSfZOf9Nw5PE9m9ytdGV3yLw+89etBA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FB525BA57DCD4FDB9B220D36B7841C6E@MAIN>

> I'm trying to figure out in my mind how to build a box that will allow me
> to select a HiZ 4 square, two beverages, an RX loop, and switch in an MFJ
> 1026 Noise Cancelling device using the listed RX antennas - to two radios
> using their external RX antenna jack. I know that I need to be concerned
> with isolation and grounding. Can I use several older ceramic rotary
> switches, relays or what?

Ray,

I build one-off things for myself, but I can share some direct experience. I 
always use relays now, but I have used push button and other switches in the 
past.

1.) The worse unwanted coupling on 160 is going to be from shields not being 
grounded to a good solid common point with very low impedance. NEVER switch 
the shields, and make sure any connectors or cable entrances to the switch 
ground to a very low impedance groundplane that ties all the shields 
together.

2.) Many rotary and push button switches are "good enough" on 160 and 80. 
They tend to lose isolation on higher bands.

3.) Long shield connections and poor shield bonding at the hub (via a wide 
groundplane or enclosure) are the most problematic things on low 
frequencies.

If you look at this picture:

http://www.w8ji.com/images/New%20Contest%20Room/Contest%20station%20CQWW2007/receiver-switch-matrix.jpg

at

http://www.w8ji.com/contest_station_w8ji.htm

the stuff on the upper right side of the box is the switching system. It is 
"dead bug" construction with twisted pair enamel wire for receiver RF 
transmission line RF bus interconnections.

It has over 80 dB isolation as it sits, with the isolation limits set by the 
relays used.

The twisted wire transmission lines and open construction are not even close 
to affecting isolation or RF ingress limits. If I used a plastic box or 
backplane instead of metal, or if the connectors floated on the box, or 
grounded through wires of just an inch or more, or shields grounded to a 
small PC board ground bus, isolation (and lightning immunity) would fall 
apart.

My advice is to watch the box, and watch the cable entrance grounding to the 
box. It does not have to be a closed box with a lid at HF (and even low 
VHF), but it has to look like a really low impedance uninterrupted 
groundplane. You never want to switch a shield, or common ground through 
leads or narrow foil traces of any length.

73 Tom 


From n8vw at linuxcolumbus.com  Sat Oct 18 14:57:50 2014
From: n8vw at linuxcolumbus.com (pat)
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2014 14:57:50 -0400
Subject: Topband: The Stew
Message-ID: <22654E23-7F40-489E-B708-10F7EA6C6F3F@linuxcolumbus.com>

Don't forget to get on for the fall edition of the Stew Perry contest.   

n8vw

From n8vw at linuxcolumbus.com  Sat Oct 18 19:14:57 2014
From: n8vw at linuxcolumbus.com (pat)
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2014 19:14:57 -0400
Subject: Topband: The Stew
In-Reply-To: <5442E8B4.5060508@ni6t.com>
References: <22654E23-7F40-489E-B708-10F7EA6C6F3F@linuxcolumbus.com>
	<5442E8B4.5060508@ni6t.com>
Message-ID: <2101B58A-E418-4C18-BB5F-B5C6CBC5C910@linuxcolumbus.com>

Not sure what you mean by not worthwhile. Sorry about your beverages.    I'll be one after my daughter's soccer game.

dit dit

n8vw

On October 18, 2014 6:24:52 PM EDT, Garry Shapiro <garry at ni6t.com> wrote:
>I have never found it worthwhile, and my Bevs were flattened by a 
>falling tree.
>
>Garry, NI6T
>
>On 10/18/2014 11:57 AM, pat wrote:
>> Don't forget to get on for the fall edition of the Stew Perry
>contest.
>>
>> n8vw
>> _________________
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>

From richard at karlquist.com  Sun Oct 19 12:48:09 2014
From: richard at karlquist.com (Richard (Rick) Karlquist)
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2014 09:48:09 -0700
Subject: Topband: The Stew
In-Reply-To: <2101B58A-E418-4C18-BB5F-B5C6CBC5C910@linuxcolumbus.com>
References: <22654E23-7F40-489E-B708-10F7EA6C6F3F@linuxcolumbus.com>	<5442E8B4.5060508@ni6t.com>
	<2101B58A-E418-4C18-BB5F-B5C6CBC5C910@linuxcolumbus.com>
Message-ID: <5443EB49.4010902@karlquist.com>

I got on for about 2 hours after local sunset here.
Band was very quiet as predicted.  Lots of east
coast stations worked.  Also, the VE3's were out
in force as usual.  Only "DX" was KV4FZ, who
was easily worked on the first call.  The
activity dropped off after 0400Z and I shut down
after about 75 QSO's.  I ran high power and "felt
loud".  Lots of callers at the noise level.
I probably missed a fair number of callers.
Receive antenna was just a 20 foot loop.  I need
to get a directional array going.

Rick N6RK

On 10/18/2014 4:14 PM, pat wrote:
> Not sure what you mean by not worthwhile. Sorry about your beverages.    I'll be one after my daughter's soccer game.
>
> dit dit
>
> n8vw
>
> On October 18, 2014 6:24:52 PM EDT, Garry Shapiro <garry at ni6t.com> wrote:
>> I have never found it worthwhile, and my Bevs were flattened by a
>> falling tree.
>>
>> Garry, NI6T
>>
>> On 10/18/2014 11:57 AM, pat wrote:
>>> Don't forget to get on for the fall edition of the Stew Perry
>> contest.
>>>
>>> n8vw
>>> _________________
>>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
>

From tshoppa at gmail.com  Sun Oct 19 13:10:57 2014
From: tshoppa at gmail.com (Tim Shoppa)
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2014 13:10:57 -0400
Subject: Topband: The Stew
In-Reply-To: <5443EB49.4010902@karlquist.com>
References: <22654E23-7F40-489E-B708-10F7EA6C6F3F@linuxcolumbus.com>
	<5442E8B4.5060508@ni6t.com>
	<2101B58A-E418-4C18-BB5F-B5C6CBC5C910@linuxcolumbus.com>
	<5443EB49.4010902@karlquist.com>
Message-ID: <CAJ_qRvari51_F+xmUin9m4-YB0XdpimfY_xeMDifOSXSaDuFfg@mail.gmail.com>

Rick - you were very loud here. Also out on the left coast was K7RAT coming
in very clearly too. I think you two were the only "coasters" I found. I
had a fair number of 7 pointers not on the coast.

If you want a simple easy to maintain directional loop, I strongly
recommend a K9AY.

Last night I would sometimes stop and listen to NO3M running the far west.
Very very rarely could I hear the guys he was working!!

Tim N3QE

On Sun, Oct 19, 2014 at 12:48 PM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist <
richard at karlquist.com> wrote:

> I got on for about 2 hours after local sunset here.
> Band was very quiet as predicted.  Lots of east
> coast stations worked.  Also, the VE3's were out
> in force as usual.  Only "DX" was KV4FZ, who
> was easily worked on the first call.  The
> activity dropped off after 0400Z and I shut down
> after about 75 QSO's.  I ran high power and "felt
> loud".  Lots of callers at the noise level.
> I probably missed a fair number of callers.
> Receive antenna was just a 20 foot loop.  I need
> to get a directional array going.
>
> Rick N6RK
>
>
> On 10/18/2014 4:14 PM, pat wrote:
>
>> Not sure what you mean by not worthwhile. Sorry about your beverages.
>> I'll be one after my daughter's soccer game.
>>
>> dit dit
>>
>> n8vw
>>
>> On October 18, 2014 6:24:52 PM EDT, Garry Shapiro <garry at ni6t.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I have never found it worthwhile, and my Bevs were flattened by a
>>> falling tree.
>>>
>>> Garry, NI6T
>>>
>>> On 10/18/2014 11:57 AM, pat wrote:
>>>
>>>> Don't forget to get on for the fall edition of the Stew Perry
>>>>
>>> contest.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> n8vw
>>>> _________________
>>>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>>>
>>>>  _________________
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>
>>
>>  _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>

From k6mr at outlook.com  Sun Oct 19 13:52:08 2014
From: k6mr at outlook.com (Ken Beals)
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2014 17:52:08 +0000
Subject: Topband: =?utf-8?q?The_Stew?=
Message-ID: <BLU406-EAS378E82DBD5CA1C3E283B3A59E960@phx.gbl>

I almost fell out of the chair when NO3M came back to me?


Definitely time for a receive antenna. I looked at the K9AY and I believe it is somewhat dependent on a decent ground, which can?t be found around here.


I was hoping for a report from N6RO on his new Shared Apex Loop Array. Looks like a good bet for ground challenged locations.


Ken K6MR






From: Tim Shoppa
Sent: ?Sunday?, ?19? ?October?, ?2014 ?10?:?11
To: Richard (Rick) Karlquist, topBand List





Rick - you were very loud here. Also out on the left coast was K7RAT coming
in very clearly too. I think you two were the only "coasters" I found. I
had a fair number of 7 pointers not on the coast.

If you want a simple easy to maintain directional loop, I strongly
recommend a K9AY.

Last night I would sometimes stop and listen to NO3M running the far west.
Very very rarely could I hear the guys he was working!!

Tim N3QE

On Sun, Oct 19, 2014 at 12:48 PM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist <
richard at karlquist.com> wrote:

> I got on for about 2 hours after local sunset here.
> Band was very quiet as predicted.  Lots of east
> coast stations worked.  Also, the VE3's were out
> in force as usual.  Only "DX" was KV4FZ, who
> was easily worked on the first call.  The
> activity dropped off after 0400Z and I shut down
> after about 75 QSO's.  I ran high power and "felt
> loud".  Lots of callers at the noise level.
> I probably missed a fair number of callers.
> Receive antenna was just a 20 foot loop.  I need
> to get a directional array going.
>
> Rick N6RK
>
>
> On 10/18/2014 4:14 PM, pat wrote:
>
>> Not sure what you mean by not worthwhile. Sorry about your beverages.
>> I'll be one after my daughter's soccer game.
>>
>> dit dit
>>
>> n8vw
>>
>> On October 18, 2014 6:24:52 PM EDT, Garry Shapiro <garry at ni6t.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I have never found it worthwhile, and my Bevs were flattened by a
>>> falling tree.
>>>
>>> Garry, NI6T
>>>
>>> On 10/18/2014 11:57 AM, pat wrote:
>>>
>>>> Don't forget to get on for the fall edition of the Stew Perry
>>>>
>>> contest.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> n8vw
>>>> _________________
>>>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>>>
>>>>  _________________
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>
>>
>>  _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
_________________
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

From wrcromwell at gmail.com  Sun Oct 19 14:11:00 2014
From: wrcromwell at gmail.com (Bill Cromwell)
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2014 14:11:00 -0400
Subject: Topband: The Stew
In-Reply-To: <CAJ_qRvari51_F+xmUin9m4-YB0XdpimfY_xeMDifOSXSaDuFfg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <22654E23-7F40-489E-B708-10F7EA6C6F3F@linuxcolumbus.com>	<5442E8B4.5060508@ni6t.com>	<2101B58A-E418-4C18-BB5F-B5C6CBC5C910@linuxcolumbus.com>	<5443EB49.4010902@karlquist.com>
	<CAJ_qRvari51_F+xmUin9m4-YB0XdpimfY_xeMDifOSXSaDuFfg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5443FEB4.7080904@gmail.com>

Hi,

My 160 meter transmitters are down for TLC. I am the primary caregiver 
for my ailing XYL and time for tearing into those is scarce. I have been 
playing with some mag loops and I took unfair advantage of the Stew to 
help evaluate the four foot mag loop (the 18 inch one starts sagging 
badly at 40 meters). I heard both N6RK and a K7 station (I wasn't paying 
enough attention and the K7 only sent his call once S&P style). The mag 
loop is magnificent at reducing the industrial type noise in my area. I 
can easily copy signals several decibels lower than zero on my S-meter. 
The usually S-4 or S-5 (meter) noise levels are lower still. Many 
signals were below that S-4 level but easily copied loud and clear. I'll 
use the step attenuator to try and determine those levels..

I am impressed enough to start making plans for a K9AY here. I am sure I 
can fit one onto my postage stamp lot. Can't work 'em if you can't hear 
'em. And that DX100 is about 3/4 redone :)

73,

Bill  kU8H


On 10/19/2014 01:10 PM, Tim Shoppa wrote:
> Rick - you were very loud here. Also out on the left coast was K7RAT coming
> in very clearly too. I think you two were the only "coasters" I found. I
> had a fair number of 7 pointers not on the coast.
>
> If you want a simple easy to maintain directional loop, I strongly
> recommend a K9AY.
>
> Last night I would sometimes stop and listen to NO3M running the far west.
> Very very rarely could I hear the guys he was working!!
>
> Tim N3QE
>
>


From pa5kt at remijn.net  Sun Oct 19 15:15:25 2014
From: pa5kt at remijn.net (Henk PA5KT)
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2014 21:15:25 +0200
Subject: Topband: Stew Perry
Message-ID: <54440DCD.6090003@remijn.net>

Hi,

I made some hours in the Stew Perry last night.

Only dx worked around 02:30 was KV4FZ and 03:00 worked KA1R who was not 
in contest.
Both had very strong signals and not a lot of noise.

USA stations I could hear for a long time but who did not hear me:
NO3M, K1LT, K3UL.

Signals were good till about 04:30 and then dropped and stayed low even 
during my SR at 06:15.

Tx antenna 16m vertical top loaded with 2 sloping wires.
2 1/4wl elevated radials and some radials on the ground.
Rx 50m reversible (W<->E) beverage on ground which appears to work ok.

Looks like buying a new house in the countryside was a good investment.
Hope to work more dx.

73 Henk PA5KT

From f5phw at free.fr  Sun Oct 19 17:55:33 2014
From: f5phw at free.fr (f5phw at free.fr)
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2014 23:55:33 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: Topband: Stew Perry
In-Reply-To: <54440DCD.6090003@remijn.net>
Message-ID: <988398304.247729340.1413755733964.JavaMail.root@spooler3-g27.priv.proxad.net>

Hello

I was using until few days a inverted L (24m long) for 160/80.
The only big DX I made were V5, A65, A45, K, FO/C, FP.

Some friends told me it was really better to have around 40m long.

So, now, the lenght is around 40 meters. 8 meters vertical under a tree and horizontal for the rest of wire.
About 50 radials from 5 meters to 20 meters.

No Rx system, only on inverted L.

This pre Stew Perry was good to test it.
I don't know how was the propagation yesterday night, good or not ? I am a newbie on 160.

I have been on top band during 3 hours.
All stations I could hear had been contacted.
But only few stations from EU.
Had QSO with A65BP and the good surprise : KV4FZ at 2350Z.
My first QSO with Caribean on top band. Many many tnx Herb.
I stopped few minutes after.
I heard some EU working US stations but I never heard USA.

Only 29 QSO but happy that it seems to work better.

K3
1K-FA
Inverted L 40m
Wintest

Best 73 de F5PHW Phil (Ex FO8RZ)


Web page on http://f5phw.free.fr 
F5PHW on FACEBOOK : https://www.facebook.com/phil.berger.75 

----- Mail original -----
De: "Henk PA5KT" <pa5kt at remijn.net>
?: topband at contesting.com
Envoy?: Dimanche 19 Octobre 2014 21:15:25
Objet: Topband: Stew Perry

Hi,

I made some hours in the Stew Perry last night.

Only dx worked around 02:30 was KV4FZ and 03:00 worked KA1R who was not 
in contest.
Both had very strong signals and not a lot of noise.

USA stations I could hear for a long time but who did not hear me:
NO3M, K1LT, K3UL.

Signals were good till about 04:30 and then dropped and stayed low even 
during my SR at 06:15.

Tx antenna 16m vertical top loaded with 2 sloping wires.
2 1/4wl elevated radials and some radials on the ground.
Rx 50m reversible (W<->E) beverage on ground which appears to work ok.

Looks like buying a new house in the countryside was a good investment.
Hope to work more dx.

73 Henk PA5KT
_________________
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

From topband at contesting.com  Mon Oct 20 19:52:59 2014
From: topband at contesting.com (N7DF via Topband)
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2014 16:52:59 -0700
Subject: Topband: what happened to SP
Message-ID: <1413849179.28132.YahooMailNeo@web162805.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

The NASA solar observatory reported that an X1 class solar flare occurred at o500Z on October 19 resulting in a geomagnetic storm that lasted until 1100Z   During this period earth's ionosphere was severely impacted and high frequency  radio propagation interrupted

From goldtr8 at charter.net  Mon Oct 20 20:10:22 2014
From: goldtr8 at charter.net (Goldtr8 (KD8NNU))
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2014 20:10:22 -0400
Subject: Topband: what happened to SP
In-Reply-To: <1413849179.28132.YahooMailNeo@web162805.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <1413849179.28132.YahooMailNeo@web162805.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <EE0D866BB79C4790B05E4139F1460C92@donslaptopHP>

I was going to post something about my experience this weekend.   I logged a 
few short contacts and went to bed and got up at 1:00 AM Eastern time which 
was about 5:00 UTC.   I head only local guys and there were not even any 
good spots for anything out to the west coast.

After about an hour I just gave up as I just did not receive anything that I 
had not already worked.   I was really hoping to work some west coast but it 
was not in the cards I guess and now I know why.

Cheers
~73
Don
KD8NNU
2014 3905CC Top Gun :-)
-.- -.. ---.. -. -. ..-
-----Original Message----- 
From: N7DF via Topband
Sent: Monday, October 20, 2014 7:52 PM
To: topband at contesting.com
Subject: Topband: what happened to SP

The NASA solar observatory reported that an X1 class solar flare occurred at 
o500Z on October 19 resulting in a geomagnetic storm that lasted until 1100Z 
During this period earth's ionosphere was severely impacted and high 
frequency  radio propagation interrupted
_________________
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband 



From k9ay at k9ay.com  Tue Oct 21 10:57:07 2014
From: k9ay at k9ay.com (K9AY)
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2014 09:57:07 -0500
Subject: Topband: The Stew
Message-ID: <B4C29C125D9F435390D0EEE3274EA8F2@pcone>

In the Pre-Stew, I did not have the regular RX antennas installed (neither K9AY nor Beverages); only used a couple 200 foot unterminated wires quickly deployed at 2 ft. height. Quiet band was very helpful! All corners of US/VE among my 65 QSOs, including VE1, FL, CA, OR, WA, KV4FZ and VP5. Heard OA4 and KH6 while they were S&P, but I only operated 3 short sessions, didn't call CQ much and didn't work them. Heard whispers of DX an hour before sunrise (VK-something, and another unknown).

Saw several comments on the K9AY Loop -- I've done a lot of analysis and experiments over the past couple years that are not yet published. Among the results is better understanding of the role of ground. I now recommend a few radials for all installations: minimum of (4), preferably (8) radials that are twice as long as the loop's footprint. If you add them to an existing system, remember that the resistor should be readjusted for deepest null.

73, Gary
K9AY

From vk6vz at arach.net.au  Tue Oct 21 12:08:41 2014
From: vk6vz at arach.net.au (Steve Ireland)
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2014 00:08:41 +0800
Subject: Topband: The Stew from the Australian 'left coast'
Message-ID: <3460EA04997C44BAAEC256093CB284D3@StevesHPpcPC>

G?day

Unfortunately for those in the south-west of Western Australia, such as Phil VK6GX and myself, the ?Pre-Stew? was a total wash-out, owing to lightning which lasted for the duration of the contest.  Both of us were already to go but the static crashes were well over S9 and it was downright unsafe to operate.

This kind of weather is very unusual for spring in WA and is more reminiscent of late summer. 

Vy 73

Steve, VK6VZ   

---
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From topband at contesting.com  Tue Oct 21 19:12:11 2014
From: topband at contesting.com (Phil Hartwell via Topband)
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2014 07:12:11 +0800
Subject: Topband: Pre-Stew
Message-ID: <5446E84B.6040103@yahoo.com>

G'day All,

I was planing to participate in the Stew, unfortunately severe 
thunderstorm activity in VK6 made it impossible to hear any DX. I will 
be there for the Big Stew, QRN permitting.

73, Phil VK6GX.

From topband at contesting.com  Wed Oct 22 10:01:34 2014
From: topband at contesting.com (Russ Tobolic via Topband)
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2014 07:01:34 -0700
Subject: Topband: The Stew
In-Reply-To: <B4C29C125D9F435390D0EEE3274EA8F2@pcone>
References: <B4C29C125D9F435390D0EEE3274EA8F2@pcone>
Message-ID: <1413986494.48647.YahooMailNeo@web165004.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Hello Gary,

I have been using the K9AY loops for several years and am very happy with the performance but always looking for more.  Is there anything critical about the placement of the radials, i.e. in the same directions as the loops or at 45 deg in between the loops?

Thanks,

Russ, N3CO


________________________________
 From: K9AY <k9ay at k9ay.com>
To: topband at contesting.com 
Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2014 10:57 AM
Subject: Re: Topband: The Stew
 

In the Pre-Stew, I did not have the regular RX antennas installed (neither K9AY nor Beverages); only used a couple 200 foot unterminated wires quickly deployed at 2 ft. height. Quiet band was very helpful! All corners of US/VE among my 65 QSOs, including VE1, FL, CA, OR, WA, KV4FZ and VP5. Heard OA4 and KH6 while they were S&P, but I only operated 3 short sessions, didn't call CQ much and didn't work them. Heard whispers of DX an hour before sunrise (VK-something, and another unknown).

Saw several comments on the K9AY Loop -- I've done a lot of analysis and experiments over the past couple years that are not yet published. Among the results is better understanding of the role of ground. I now recommend a few radials for all installations: minimum of (4), preferably (8) radials that are twice as long as the loop's footprint. If you add them to an existing system, remember that the resistor should be readjusted for deepest null.

73, Gary
K9AY
_________________
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

From r.c.eldridge at ieee.org  Wed Oct 22 11:23:33 2014
From: r.c.eldridge at ieee.org (Robert Eldridge)
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2014 08:23:33 -0700
Subject: Topband: Pre-Stew
In-Reply-To: <5446E84B.6040103@yahoo.com>
References: <5446E84B.6040103@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAM10s5jFBaT_h6H5X51907oz4-LRvE5scEacEE3i5C-NBxzfOw@mail.gmail.com>

Please note that VE7BS is now a silent key.  Anne his daughters e-mail
address is anne.c.eldridge at gmail.com

On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 4:12 PM, Phil Hartwell via Topband <
topband at contesting.com> wrote:

> G'day All,
>
> I was planing to participate in the Stew, unfortunately severe
> thunderstorm activity in VK6 made it impossible to hear any DX. I will be
> there for the Big Stew, QRN permitting.
>
> 73, Phil VK6GX.
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>

From k9ay at k9ay.com  Wed Oct 22 12:35:36 2014
From: k9ay at k9ay.com (K9AY)
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2014 11:35:36 -0500
Subject: Topband: The Stew
Message-ID: <51D3FA439F5F49F99377F396C411BCC1@pcone>

Russ,

First, the radials won't noticeably improve performance if you are already getting a deep null. They will help with a poor ground, and they will assure that variations due to changing soil moisture are minimized. 

The minimum setup is (4) radials placed directly under the loop wires and extending well beyond the footprint of the loop. Additional radials should be spaced evenly between these first four.

Gary
K9AY





Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2014 07:01:34 -0700
From: Russ Tobolic via Topband <topband at contesting.com>

Hello Gary,

I have been using the K9AY loops for several years and am very happy with the performance but always looking for more.  Is there anything critical about the placement of the radials, i.e. in the same directions as the loops or at 45 deg in between the loops?

Thanks,

Russ, N3CO



From jim at audiosystemsgroup.com  Wed Oct 22 13:42:03 2014
From: jim at audiosystemsgroup.com (Jim Brown)
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2014 10:42:03 -0700
Subject: Topband: Radial Wire
In-Reply-To: <255C2A20-78B3-42C6-BCB9-024E83A126B5@waveform.net>
References: <1403540590.32550.YahooMailNeo@web120101.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>	<1403636220.86908.YahooMailNeo@web163004.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>	<53A9D59D.3050805@vitelcom.net>
	<53AC0F48.8030607@frontiernet.net>	<53AC3D35.2020901@vitelcom.net>
	<255C2A20-78B3-42C6-BCB9-024E83A126B5@waveform.net>
Message-ID: <5447EC6B.3020208@audiosystemsgroup.com>

On 6/26/2014 2:24 PM, Bill Wichers wrote:
> You can get solid thhn. Some codes even require it, but it is much less common. I've seen Home Depot stock it before.

Solid #12 and #14 THHN on 500 ft spools is stocked by every Home Depot 
and Lowes store I have visited. They even offer a discount (10% on 5 or 
6 spools, I think). I prefer #14 solid because it seems to remain in 
place a bit better than stranded. I would use #18 if it were widely 
available at good prices.

73, Jim K9YC



From donovanf at starpower.net  Wed Oct 22 14:17:06 2014
From: donovanf at starpower.net (donovanf at starpower.net)
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2014 14:17:06 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Topband: Radial Wire
In-Reply-To: <5447EC6B.3020208@audiosystemsgroup.com>
Message-ID: <1591051791.8949415.1414001826521.JavaMail.root@starpower.net>

iwc2carl on ebay is my favorite supplier of bulk wire. He's very reliable, 
consistently less expensive (including shipping) than the retail stores and 
electrical wholesalers, ships in a few days and you can't beat the 
convenience of delivery direct to your door. He almost always accepts 
an offer of 90% of his asking price. 

http://www.ebay.com/sch/iwc2carl/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&_from= 

For radials I typically use 1000 foot reels of 16 AWG stranded for $50.00 
per reel plus ten dollars for shipping. 

73 
Frank 
W3LPL 

----- Original Message -----

From: "Jim Brown" <jim at audiosystemsgroup.com> 
To: topband at contesting.com 
Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2014 6:42:03 PM 
Subject: Topband: Radial Wire 

On 6/26/2014 2:24 PM, Bill Wichers wrote: 
> You can get solid thhn. Some codes even require it, but it is much less common. I've seen Home Depot stock it before. 

Solid #12 and #14 THHN on 500 ft spools is stocked by every Home Depot 
and Lowes store I have visited. They even offer a discount (10% on 5 or 
6 spools, I think). I prefer #14 solid because it seems to remain in 
place a bit better than stranded. I would use #18 if it were widely 
available at good prices. 

73, Jim K9YC 


_________________ 
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband 


From wb6rse1 at mac.com  Wed Oct 22 14:27:42 2014
From: wb6rse1 at mac.com (wb6rse1 at mac.com)
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2014 11:27:42 -0700
Subject: Topband: KP1
Message-ID: <90F6183E-C81E-42DB-9C79-0B52F9021CBC@mac.com>

A new one for many on 160 coming in January. I?m sure the team will welcome any and all support.

http://kp1-5.com/new/news.htm

Steve WB6RSE

From mikewate at gmail.com  Wed Oct 22 14:37:42 2014
From: mikewate at gmail.com (Mike Waters)
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2014 13:37:42 -0500
Subject: Topband: KP1
In-Reply-To: <90F6183E-C81E-42DB-9C79-0B52F9021CBC@mac.com>
References: <90F6183E-C81E-42DB-9C79-0B52F9021CBC@mac.com>
Message-ID: <CA+FxYXhGiQ4LNAX38zj=J=bnaDX64+sc7tOpePgAYoN6W0M=mA@mail.gmail.com>

I couldn't find a thing there about 160 (or any other band). Did I miss
something?

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com

On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 1:27 PM, <wb6rse1 at mac.com> wrote:

> A new one for many on 160 coming in January. I?m sure the team will
> welcome any and all support.
>
> http://kp1-5.com/new/news.htm
>

From k4dli at earthlink.net  Wed Oct 22 15:18:50 2014
From: k4dli at earthlink.net (Jim Streible)
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2014 15:18:50 -0400
Subject: Topband: KP1
Message-ID: <5448031A.8000604@earthlink.net>

PRESS RELEASE
From: The KP1-5 Project
Re: Navassa (KP1) DXpedition
Dated: 22 October 2014
The U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service has notified the KP1-5 Project that 
they will be the team to activate Navassa Island (KP1) in January 2015.
The DXpedition will be a maximum of fourteen days. The exact dates in 
January will be determined by USFWS mission requirements and weather 
windows.
Our experienced team of fifteen is complete and is ready for the 
challenge. The weeks ahead will be extremely busy as the team has less 
than 90 days before the DXpedition comes on the air.
January is the month of minimum bird nesting activity and this is the 
primary reason USFWS is asking that the operation be completed during 
that month. However, the weather is unpredictable in January and because 
Navassa is surrounded by cliffs, this may preclude a safe landing by 
boat. For safety reasons and in order to maximize our time on the Island 
and on the air, a helicopter operation is planned. Navassa is over 100 
miles (160 km) from the nearest helicopter staging point and as many as 
ten round trips will be required at the beginning and end of the 
operation. Obviously, this means that there will be a significant cost 
for activating this #1 ranked DXCC entity.
In the next few weeks, we be working with USFWS and as details firm up, 
we will issue periodic press releases. Check our webpage, 
http://www.kp1-5.com for more details of the operation and how you may 
financially support this DXpedition.
The KP1-5 Project team has committed to fund 50% of the total costs. We 
are hopeful the DX community at large will fund the remainder.
for The KP1-5 Project,
Bob Allphin, K4UEE, President
Glenn Johnson, W0GJ, Vice-president
Mike Thomas, NA5U, Secretary

From mikewate at gmail.com  Wed Oct 22 15:20:51 2014
From: mikewate at gmail.com (Mike Waters)
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2014 14:20:51 -0500
Subject: Topband: KP1
In-Reply-To: <4b1363c7a55f452d80a3d9a45a631de3@BLUPR04MB465.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>
References: <90F6183E-C81E-42DB-9C79-0B52F9021CBC@mac.com>
	<CA+FxYXhGiQ4LNAX38zj=J=bnaDX64+sc7tOpePgAYoN6W0M=mA@mail.gmail.com>
	<4b1363c7a55f452d80a3d9a45a631de3@BLUPR04MB465.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CA+FxYXg9BMUxvFcbWUkcQJt0nOihp2tqYk=6ZSA+kuDmQfsp1g@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks to you and to all who replied privately.
I didn't doubt that they would be on 160, I was just looking for more
information about this event. I didn't realize who this was. :-)

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com

On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 1:48 PM, Chortek, Robert L <
Robert.Chrtek at berliner.com> wrote:

> The KP5 operation had almost 2000 160 meter contacts, so we can be sure
> they will have a big presence on the low bands, including 160!
>
> Bob/AA6VB
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Mike
> Waters
> Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2014 11:38 AM
> Cc: topband
> Subject: Re: Topband: KP1
>
> I couldn't find a thing there about 160 (or any other band). Did I miss
> something?
>
> 73, Mike
> www.w0btu.com
>
> On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 1:27 PM, <wb6rse1 at mac.com> wrote:
>
> > A new one for many on 160 coming in January. I?m sure the team will
> > welcome any and all support.
> >
> > http://kp1-5.com/new/news.htm
> >
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>

From wd5bjt at peoplepc.com  Wed Oct 22 15:29:15 2014
From: wd5bjt at peoplepc.com (Charles Otnott)
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2014 14:29:15 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
Subject: Topband: KP1
Message-ID: <13070455.1414006155263.JavaMail.root@mswamui-thinleaf.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Not to mention one less hop for prop from KP5.

Been there (KP5) 1987, done that.

73 & Best DX

Charlie
WD5BJT

See September 2006 CQ Magazine for a published work.
www.qsl.net/wd5bjt



-----Original Message-----
>From: Mike Waters <mikewate at gmail.com>
>Sent: Oct 22, 2014 2:20 PM
>To: topband <topband at contesting.com>
>Subject: Re: Topband: KP1
>
>Thanks to you and to all who replied privately.
>I didn't doubt that they would be on 160, I was just looking for more
>information about this event. I didn't realize who this was. :-)
>
>73, Mike
>www.w0btu.com
>
>On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 1:48 PM, Chortek, Robert L <
>Robert.Chrtek at berliner.com> wrote:
>
>> The KP5 operation had almost 2000 160 meter contacts, so we can be sure
>> they will have a big presence on the low bands, including 160!
>>
>> Bob/AA6VB
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Mike
>> Waters
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2014 11:38 AM
>> Cc: topband
>> Subject: Re: Topband: KP1
>>
>> I couldn't find a thing there about 160 (or any other band). Did I miss
>> something?
>>
>> 73, Mike
>> www.w0btu.com
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 1:27 PM, <wb6rse1 at mac.com> wrote:
>>
>> > A new one for many on 160 coming in January. I?m sure the team will
>> > welcome any and all support.
>> >
>> > http://kp1-5.com/new/news.htm
>> >
>> _________________
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>
>_________________
>Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


From daraymond at iowatelecom.net  Wed Oct 22 15:45:43 2014
From: daraymond at iowatelecom.net (David Raymond)
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2014 14:45:43 -0500
Subject: Topband: KP1
References: <90F6183E-C81E-42DB-9C79-0B52F9021CBC@mac.com><CA+FxYXhGiQ4LNAX38zj=J=bnaDX64+sc7tOpePgAYoN6W0M=mA@mail.gmail.com><4b1363c7a55f452d80a3d9a45a631de3@BLUPR04MB465.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>
	<CA+FxYXg9BMUxvFcbWUkcQJt0nOihp2tqYk=6ZSA+kuDmQfsp1g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7E7B01741CBA4CC1B99BC0BCD909C1CB@radiocomputer>

One of the participants indicated to me they would be on 160.

73. . .Dave, W0FLS
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mike Waters" <mikewate at gmail.com>
To: "topband" <topband at contesting.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2014 2:20 PM
Subject: Re: Topband: KP1


> Thanks to you and to all who replied privately.
> I didn't doubt that they would be on 160, I was just looking for more
> information about this event. I didn't realize who this was. :-)
>
> 73, Mike
> www.w0btu.com
>
> On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 1:48 PM, Chortek, Robert L <
> Robert.Chrtek at berliner.com> wrote:
>
>> The KP5 operation had almost 2000 160 meter contacts, so we can be sure
>> they will have a big presence on the low bands, including 160!
>>
>> Bob/AA6VB
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Mike
>> Waters
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2014 11:38 AM
>> Cc: topband
>> Subject: Re: Topband: KP1
>>
>> I couldn't find a thing there about 160 (or any other band). Did I miss
>> something?
>>
>> 73, Mike
>> www.w0btu.com
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 1:27 PM, <wb6rse1 at mac.com> wrote:
>>
>> > A new one for many on 160 coming in January. I?m sure the team will
>> > welcome any and all support.
>> >
>> > http://kp1-5.com/new/news.htm
>> >
>> _________________
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband 


From garyk9gs at wi.rr.com  Wed Oct 22 16:10:35 2014
From: garyk9gs at wi.rr.com (garyk9gs)
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2014 15:10:35 -0500
Subject: Topband: KP1
Message-ID: <if3f1osm6eg43s6oqlnpai4q.1414008635730@email.android.com>

I think you only have to look at who's on the team to KNOW they'll be on 160.?


73,

Gary K9GS

<div>-------- Original message --------</div><div>From: David Raymond <daraymond at iowatelecom.net> </div><div>Date:10/22/2014  2:45 PM  (GMT-06:00) </div><div>To: Mike Waters <mikewate at gmail.com>,topband <topband at contesting.com> </div><div>Subject: Re: Topband: KP1 </div><div>
</div>One of the participants indicated to me they would be on 160.

73. . .Dave, W0FLS
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mike Waters" <mikewate at gmail.com>
To: "topband" <topband at contesting.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2014 2:20 PM
Subject: Re: Topband: KP1


> Thanks to you and to all who replied privately.
> I didn't doubt that they would be on 160, I was just looking for more
> information about this event. I didn't realize who this was. :-)
>
> 73, Mike
> www.w0btu.com
>
> On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 1:48 PM, Chortek, Robert L <
> Robert.Chrtek at berliner.com> wrote:
>
>> The KP5 operation had almost 2000 160 meter contacts, so we can be sure
>> they will have a big presence on the low bands, including 160!
>>
>> Bob/AA6VB
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Mike
>> Waters
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2014 11:38 AM
>> Cc: topband
>> Subject: Re: Topband: KP1
>>
>> I couldn't find a thing there about 160 (or any other band). Did I miss
>> something?
>>
>> 73, Mike
>> www.w0btu.com
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 1:27 PM, <wb6rse1 at mac.com> wrote:
>>
>> > A new one for many on 160 coming in January. I?m sure the team will
>> > welcome any and all support.
>> >
>> > http://kp1-5.com/new/news.htm
>> >
>> _________________
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband 

_________________
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

From km1h at jeremy.qozzy.com  Wed Oct 22 15:55:05 2014
From: km1h at jeremy.qozzy.com (Carl)
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2014 15:55:05 -0400
Subject: Topband: Radial Wire
References: <1591051791.8949415.1414001826521.JavaMail.root@starpower.net>
Message-ID: <1C34DE5209AF4AF2909A4DD6FB7364FB@computer1>

Good link Frank, thanks. Some here might be interested in some of these. 
That #12 copperclad could be interesting if the copper is thick enough for 
160 transmitting and you can overlook the color!


http://www.ebay.com/itm/1000-FT-COPPER-CLAD-STEEL-TRACER-LOCATING-WIRE-12-AWG-30-V-YELLOW-Made-in-USA-/251658885983?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a9809db5f


http://www.ebay.com/itm/500FT-UNDERGROUND-PET-FENCE-WIRE-18AWG-SOLID-GREEN-30-MIL-JACKET-MADE-IN-USA-/251663392372?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a984e9e74

http://www.ebay.com/itm/500-FT-TFN-TEWN-WIRE-18-AWG-SOLID-600-V-MADE-IN-USA-3-COLORS-AVAILABLE-/251558308312?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a920b29d8


http://www.ebay.com/itm/500FT-UNDERGROUND-PET-FENCE-WIRE-16AWG-SOLID-ORANGE-30-MIL-JACKET-MADE-IN-USA-/251673136635?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a98e34dfb

Carl
KM1H

From: <donovanf at starpower.net>
To: <topband at contesting.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2014 2:17 PM
Subject: Re: Topband: Radial Wire


> iwc2carl on ebay is my favorite supplier of bulk wire. He's very reliable,
> consistently less expensive (including shipping) than the retail stores 
> and
> electrical wholesalers, ships in a few days and you can't beat the
> convenience of delivery direct to your door. He almost always accepts
> an offer of 90% of his asking price.
>
> http://www.ebay.com/sch/iwc2carl/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&_from=
>
> For radials I typically use 1000 foot reels of 16 AWG stranded for $50.00
> per reel plus ten dollars for shipping.
>
> 73
> Frank
> W3LPL
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: "Jim Brown" <jim at audiosystemsgroup.com>
> To: topband at contesting.com
> Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2014 6:42:03 PM
> Subject: Topband: Radial Wire
>
> On 6/26/2014 2:24 PM, Bill Wichers wrote:
>> You can get solid thhn. Some codes even require it, but it is much less 
>> common. I've seen Home Depot stock it before.
>
> Solid #12 and #14 THHN on 500 ft spools is stocked by every Home Depot
> and Lowes store I have visited. They even offer a discount (10% on 5 or
> 6 spools, I think). I prefer #14 solid because it seems to remain in
> place a bit better than stranded. I would use #18 if it were widely
> available at good prices.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2015.0.5315 / Virus Database: 4181/8433 - Release Date: 10/22/14
> 


From mikewate at gmail.com  Wed Oct 22 19:19:37 2014
From: mikewate at gmail.com (Mike Waters)
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2014 18:19:37 -0500
Subject: Topband: Radial Wire
In-Reply-To: <1C34DE5209AF4AF2909A4DD6FB7364FB@computer1>
References: <1591051791.8949415.1414001826521.JavaMail.root@starpower.net>
	<1C34DE5209AF4AF2909A4DD6FB7364FB@computer1>
Message-ID: <CA+FxYXg-v2TC15OppA+Du1t97u1Zm2-Cb4LzAD_1xNr-yZG7mw@mail.gmail.com>

You bet it is! Those prices are the best I've seen in some time.

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com

On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 2:55 PM, Carl <km1h at jeremy.qozzy.com> wrote:

> Good link Frank, thanks.
>

From mstangelo at comcast.net  Wed Oct 22 19:30:20 2014
From: mstangelo at comcast.net (mstangelo at comcast.net)
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2014 23:30:20 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Topband: Radial Wire
In-Reply-To: <1591051791.8949415.1414001826521.JavaMail.root@starpower.net>
References: <1591051791.8949415.1414001826521.JavaMail.root@starpower.net>
Message-ID: <2002989787.12310735.1414020620581.JavaMail.root@comcast.net>

I'd use their dog wire because it has PE insulation.

Mike N2MS
----- Original Message -----
From: donovanf at starpower.net
To: topband at contesting.com
Sent: Wed, 22 Oct 2014 18:17:06 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: Re: Topband: Radial Wire

iwc2carl on ebay is my favorite supplier of bulk wire. He's very reliable, 
consistently less expensive (including shipping) than the retail stores and 
electrical wholesalers, ships in a few days and you can't beat the 
convenience of delivery direct to your door. He almost always accepts 
an offer of 90% of his asking price. 

http://www.ebay.com/sch/iwc2carl/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&_from= 

For radials I typically use 1000 foot reels of 16 AWG stranded for $50.00 
per reel plus ten dollars for shipping. 

73 
Frank 
W3LPL 


From garyk9gs at wi.rr.com  Wed Oct 22 20:24:20 2014
From: garyk9gs at wi.rr.com (Gary K9GS)
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2014 19:24:20 -0500
Subject: Topband: Radial Wire
In-Reply-To: <1591051791.8949415.1414001826521.JavaMail.root@starpower.net>
References: <1591051791.8949415.1414001826521.JavaMail.root@starpower.net>
Message-ID: <54484AB4.7080104@wi.rr.com>

Frank,

Thank you very much for this source.  I was just looking this week for 
wire prices.  I want to buy quite a lot for next summer's antenna project.

The nice thing is he's close enough I'll probably pick it up and save 
shipping.

BTW...any thoughts on solid vs stranded?  I do like to use insulated 
wire as I think it lasts longer.  I was thinking 16 or 18 ga.


On 10/22/2014 1:17 PM, donovanf at starpower.net wrote:
> iwc2carl on ebay is my favorite supplier of bulk wire. He's very reliable,
> consistently less expensive (including shipping) than the retail stores and
> electrical wholesalers, ships in a few days and you can't beat the
> convenience of delivery direct to your door. He almost always accepts
> an offer of 90% of his asking price.
>
> http://www.ebay.com/sch/iwc2carl/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&_from=
>
> For radials I typically use 1000 foot reels of 16 AWG stranded for $50.00
> per reel plus ten dollars for shipping.
>
> 73
> Frank
> W3LPL
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: "Jim Brown" <jim at audiosystemsgroup.com>
> To: topband at contesting.com
> Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2014 6:42:03 PM
> Subject: Topband: Radial Wire
>
> On 6/26/2014 2:24 PM, Bill Wichers wrote:
>> You can get solid thhn. Some codes even require it, but it is much less common. I've seen Home Depot stock it before.
> Solid #12 and #14 THHN on 500 ft spools is stocked by every Home Depot
> and Lowes store I have visited. They even offer a discount (10% on 5 or
> 6 spools, I think). I prefer #14 solid because it seems to remain in
> place a bit better than stranded. I would use #18 if it were widely
> available at good prices.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
>
> -- 
> 73,
>
> Gary K9GS
>
> Greater Milwaukee DX Association: http://www.gmdxa.org
> Society of Midwest Contesters: http://www.w9smc.com
> CW Ops #1032   http://www.cwops.org
>
> ************************************************

From billw at waveform.net  Wed Oct 22 20:40:36 2014
From: billw at waveform.net (Bill Wichers)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2014 00:40:36 +0000
Subject: Topband: Radial Wire
In-Reply-To: <54484AB4.7080104@wi.rr.com>
References: <1591051791.8949415.1414001826521.JavaMail.root@starpower.net>,
	<54484AB4.7080104@wi.rr.com>
Message-ID: <5E09E28C-9C94-4953-A282-A07C8A009B04@waveform.net>

Solid will generally hold up better regarding corrosion, but stranded holds up better if subjected to mechanical stress. Solid is also easier to solder properly, imho. Pick the type best suited to the area your radial field is in. If your radial field gets walked on frequently then stranded is probably the better choice. Solid is generally a better choice in areas that won't be subject to mechanical stresses from walkers and the like. 

Also, I agree with the other poster that the "dog run wire" is probably the best of the options available from that seller due to it having a polyethylene jacket. I'd personally go with dark colors too to hide in the grass as well as for better uv resistance. 

-Bill KB8WYP

Sent from my iPad

> On Oct 22, 2014, at 8:24 PM, Gary K9GS <garyk9gs at wi.rr.com> wrote:
> 
> Frank,
> 
> Thank you very much for this source.  I was just looking this week for wire prices.  I want to buy quite a lot for next summer's antenna project.
> 
> The nice thing is he's close enough I'll probably pick it up and save shipping.
> 
> BTW...any thoughts on solid vs stranded?  I do like to use insulated wire as I think it lasts longer.  I was thinking 16 or 18 ga.
>> 
>> 

From charlie-cunningham at nc.rr.com  Wed Oct 22 21:09:16 2014
From: charlie-cunningham at nc.rr.com (Charlie)
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2014 21:09:16 -0400
Subject: Topband: Radial Wire
In-Reply-To: <1591051791.8949415.1414001826521.JavaMail.root@starpower.net>
References: <5447EC6B.3020208@audiosystemsgroup.com>
	<1591051791.8949415.1414001826521.JavaMail.root@starpower.net>
Message-ID: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAF0xXac1rOhFkn7GlcEWNIjCgAAAEAAAAP3DUFaV65tDuDy/dcS9kvkBAAAAAA==@nc.rr.com>

I've had very good success with 16 ga stranded  with black insulation for
radials! Seems to hold up well and not very obtrusive or noticeable. Last
time I got some, I also got a 1000' spool.

73,
Charlie, K4OTV

-----Original Message-----
From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of
donovanf at starpower.net
Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2014 2:17 PM
To: topband at contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Radial Wire

iwc2carl on ebay is my favorite supplier of bulk wire. He's very reliable,
consistently less expensive (including shipping) than the retail stores and
electrical wholesalers, ships in a few days and you can't beat the
convenience of delivery direct to your door. He almost always accepts an
offer of 90% of his asking price. 

http://www.ebay.com/sch/iwc2carl/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&_from= 

For radials I typically use 1000 foot reels of 16 AWG stranded for $50.00
per reel plus ten dollars for shipping. 

73
Frank
W3LPL 

----- Original Message -----

From: "Jim Brown" <jim at audiosystemsgroup.com>
To: topband at contesting.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2014 6:42:03 PM
Subject: Topband: Radial Wire 

On 6/26/2014 2:24 PM, Bill Wichers wrote: 
> You can get solid thhn. Some codes even require it, but it is much less
common. I've seen Home Depot stock it before. 

Solid #12 and #14 THHN on 500 ft spools is stocked by every Home Depot and
Lowes store I have visited. They even offer a discount (10% on 5 or
6 spools, I think). I prefer #14 solid because it seems to remain in place a
bit better than stranded. I would use #18 if it were widely available at
good prices. 

73, Jim K9YC 


_________________
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband 

_________________
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


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From donovanf at starpower.net  Wed Oct 22 22:05:21 2014
From: donovanf at starpower.net (donovanf at starpower.net)
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2014 22:05:21 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Topband: Radial Wire
In-Reply-To: <54484AB4.7080104@wi.rr.com>
Message-ID: <120435058.9324704.1414029921461.JavaMail.root@starpower.net>

Hi Gary, 

I've used bare 14 AWG solid bare copper wire with good success in 
shallow buried radial systems. It would be a poor choice in corrosive 
soil (my heavy clay soil is not corrosive). 

I use 16 AWG stranded insulated copper wire for radials for temporary 
receiving arrays in areas with heavy foot traffic by herds of white tail 
deer. 

73 
Frank 
W3LPL 


----- Original Message -----

From: "Gary K9GS" <garyk9gs at wi.rr.com> 
To: topband at contesting.com 
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2014 1:24:20 AM 
Subject: Re: Topband: Radial Wire 

Frank, 

Thank you very much for this source. I was just looking this week for 
wire prices. I want to buy quite a lot for next summer's antenna project. 

The nice thing is he's close enough I'll probably pick it up and save 
shipping. 

BTW...any thoughts on solid vs stranded? I do like to use insulated 
wire as I think it lasts longer. I was thinking 16 or 18 ga. 


On 10/22/2014 1:17 PM, donovanf at starpower.net wrote: 
> iwc2carl on ebay is my favorite supplier of bulk wire. He's very reliable, 
> consistently less expensive (including shipping) than the retail stores and 
> electrical wholesalers, ships in a few days and you can't beat the 
> convenience of delivery direct to your door. He almost always accepts 
> an offer of 90% of his asking price. 
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/sch/iwc2carl/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&_from= 
> 
> For radials I typically use 1000 foot reels of 16 AWG stranded for $50.00 
> per reel plus ten dollars for shipping. 
> 
> 73 
> Frank 
> W3LPL 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> 
> From: "Jim Brown" <jim at audiosystemsgroup.com> 
> To: topband at contesting.com 
> Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2014 6:42:03 PM 
> Subject: Topband: Radial Wire 
> 
> On 6/26/2014 2:24 PM, Bill Wichers wrote: 
>> You can get solid thhn. Some codes even require it, but it is much less common. I've seen Home Depot stock it before. 
> Solid #12 and #14 THHN on 500 ft spools is stocked by every Home Depot 
> and Lowes store I have visited. They even offer a discount (10% on 5 or 
> 6 spools, I think). I prefer #14 solid because it seems to remain in 
> place a bit better than stranded. I would use #18 if it were widely 
> available at good prices. 
> 
> 73, Jim K9YC 
> 
> 
> _________________ 
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband 
> 
> _________________ 
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 73, 
> 
> Gary K9GS 
> 
> Greater Milwaukee DX Association: http://www.gmdxa.org 
> Society of Midwest Contesters: http://www.w9smc.com 
> CW Ops #1032 http://www.cwops.org 
> 
> ************************************************ 
_________________ 
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband 


From charlie-cunningham at nc.rr.com  Wed Oct 22 22:31:23 2014
From: charlie-cunningham at nc.rr.com (Charlie)
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2014 22:31:23 -0400
Subject: Topband: Radial Wire
In-Reply-To: <120435058.9324704.1414029921461.JavaMail.root@starpower.net>
References: <54484AB4.7080104@wi.rr.com>
	<120435058.9324704.1414029921461.JavaMail.root@starpower.net>
Message-ID: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAF0xXac1rOhFkn7GlcEWNIjCgAAAEAAAAFbLubMHS0hNiAHXBHCv9JIBAAAAAA==@nc.rr.com>

Thank heavens, I don't have deer to contend with  on my city lot! Main
"critters"  here are squirrels ("tree rats"), rabbits, possums, the
occasional raccoon or fox, and some geese from time to time. If I had deer
or other larger animals to deal with, I'd surely use something heavier and
put it higher than their heads, if I couldn't bury it! I did, not long ago,
get rid of a huge spool of 10- ga magnet wire ( hard-drawn, I think). I've
regretted getting rid of it! I had built a lot of antennas with it and it
was virtually indestructible! Took a really substantial iron to solder it!
I got the huge spool of magnet wire free from a previous employer, who was
clearing out a storage area in preparation for selling off the plant. One of
the veeps, who was supervising the clean-out, gave it to me, and I loaded it
on my pickup and took it home and used it for years for antennas -never made
much of a dent in  that huge spool! Took two strong men to get it on the bed
of my pickup!

73,
Charlie, K4OTV
                                                                      

-----Original Message-----
From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of
donovanf at starpower.net
Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2014 10:05 PM
To: topband at contesting.com
Cc: garyk9gs at wi.rr.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Radial Wire

Hi Gary, 

I've used bare 14 AWG solid bare copper wire with good success in shallow
buried radial systems. It would be a poor choice in corrosive soil (my heavy
clay soil is not corrosive). 

I use 16 AWG stranded insulated copper wire for radials for temporary
receiving arrays in areas with heavy foot traffic by herds of white tail
deer. 

73
Frank
W3LPL 


----- Original Message -----

From: "Gary K9GS" <garyk9gs at wi.rr.com>
To: topband at contesting.com
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2014 1:24:20 AM
Subject: Re: Topband: Radial Wire 

Frank, 

Thank you very much for this source. I was just looking this week for wire
prices. I want to buy quite a lot for next summer's antenna project. 

The nice thing is he's close enough I'll probably pick it up and save
shipping. 

BTW...any thoughts on solid vs stranded? I do like to use insulated wire as
I think it lasts longer. I was thinking 16 or 18 ga. 


On 10/22/2014 1:17 PM, donovanf at starpower.net wrote: 
> iwc2carl on ebay is my favorite supplier of bulk wire. He's very reliable,

> consistently less expensive (including shipping) than the retail stores
and 
> electrical wholesalers, ships in a few days and you can't beat the 
> convenience of delivery direct to your door. He almost always accepts 
> an offer of 90% of his asking price. 
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/sch/iwc2carl/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&_from= 
> 
> For radials I typically use 1000 foot reels of 16 AWG stranded for $50.00 
> per reel plus ten dollars for shipping. 
> 
> 73 
> Frank 
> W3LPL 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> 
> From: "Jim Brown" <jim at audiosystemsgroup.com> 
> To: topband at contesting.com 
> Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2014 6:42:03 PM 
> Subject: Topband: Radial Wire 
> 
> On 6/26/2014 2:24 PM, Bill Wichers wrote: 
>> You can get solid thhn. Some codes even require it, but it is much less
common. I've seen Home Depot stock it before. 
> Solid #12 and #14 THHN on 500 ft spools is stocked by every Home Depot 
> and Lowes store I have visited. They even offer a discount (10% on 5 or 
> 6 spools, I think). I prefer #14 solid because it seems to remain in 
> place a bit better than stranded. I would use #18 if it were widely 
> available at good prices. 
> 
> 73, Jim K9YC 
> 
> 
> _________________ 
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband 
> 
> _________________ 
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 73, 
> 
> Gary K9GS 
> 
> Greater Milwaukee DX Association: http://www.gmdxa.org 
> Society of Midwest Contesters: http://www.w9smc.com 
> CW Ops #1032 http://www.cwops.org 
> 
> ************************************************ 
_________________ 
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband 

_________________
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


---
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From w8ji at w8ji.com  Wed Oct 22 22:35:48 2014
From: w8ji at w8ji.com (Tom W8JI)
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2014 22:35:48 -0400
Subject: Topband: Radial Wire
References: <1591051791.8949415.1414001826521.JavaMail.root@starpower.net>
	<54484AB4.7080104@wi.rr.com>
Message-ID: <B6A1D4A2800D49E496C5298605E1A294@MAIN>

> Thank you very much for this source.  I was just looking this week for 
> wire prices.  I want to buy quite a lot for next summer's antenna project.
>
> The nice thing is he's close enough I'll probably pick it up and save 
> shipping.
>
> BTW...any thoughts on solid vs stranded?  I do like to use insulated wire 
> as I think it lasts longer.  I was thinking 16 or 18 ga.

When I did AM broadcast work, we would pull solid wire out of all sorts of 
stations built in the 1920's and 30's in all types of soil. Unless it was 
actually cut, it would be good.

In my own Ham stuff, I primarily use #16 bare copper bus (which is soft 
drawn) wire. It lasts longer than I ever keep a house unless physically cut. 
If I pull some up after several years in the ground, it just barely shows 
light surface corrosion.

I install mine with a plow on a tractor. I can pull a six inch deep radial, 
or any depth I want, at a few MPH. I have never broken a #16 wire pulling it 
into the ground. I have never seen one fail from lightning.

I personally would stay away from stranded copper, and would especially stay 
away from aluminum, steel, or steel cored wire (watch what you buy). Any 
solid copper #16 or larger, especially soft drawn, will last a lot longer 
than most of use ever will. I would not be afraid of anything solid copper 
and #16 or larger size.

If you never plan on long term direct soil exposure, never plan on soldering 
it later for an alteration or repair without doing a lot of cleaning work, 
and never plan on silver soldering, stranded copper is also OK. I use 
stranded insulated #14 on my 40M 4 square stuff because it is surface wire. 
The aluminum wire I installed several years ago on that system is falling 
apart, but the insulated stranded copper is still good. 


From jbwolf at comcast.net  Wed Oct 22 23:17:32 2014
From: jbwolf at comcast.net (James Wolf)
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2014 23:17:32 -0400
Subject: Topband: Radial Wire
In-Reply-To: <B6A1D4A2800D49E496C5298605E1A294@MAIN>
References: <1591051791.8949415.1414001826521.JavaMail.root@starpower.net>	<54484AB4.7080104@wi.rr.com>
	<B6A1D4A2800D49E496C5298605E1A294@MAIN>
Message-ID: <002b01cfee6f$e34deff0$a9e9cfd0$@comcast.net>

Tom,

On your mention of Silver solder, do you mean typical circuit board silver
solder or the "real" silver solder, such as used on copper tubing in high
pressure refrigeration systems?
I used the "real" silver solder to solder 3/8" copper tubing to Stainless
Steel Ground rods below ground level.

Jim - KR9U
____________________________________________

When I did AM broadcast work, we would pull solid wire out of all sorts of
stations built in the 1920's and 30's in all types of soil. Unless it was
actually cut, it would be good.

In my own Ham stuff, I primarily use #16 bare copper bus (which is soft
drawn) wire. It lasts longer than I ever keep a house unless physically cut.

If I pull some up after several years in the ground, it just barely shows
light surface corrosion.

I install mine with a plow on a tractor. I can pull a six inch deep radial,
or any depth I want, at a few MPH. I have never broken a #16 wire pulling it
into the ground. I have never seen one fail from lightning.

I personally would stay away from stranded copper, and would especially stay
away from aluminum, steel, or steel cored wire (watch what you buy). Any
solid copper #16 or larger, especially soft drawn, will last a lot longer
than most of use ever will. I would not be afraid of anything solid copper
and #16 or larger size.

If you never plan on long term direct soil exposure, never plan on soldering
it later for an alteration or repair without doing a lot of cleaning work,
and never plan on silver soldering, stranded copper is also OK. I use
stranded insulated #14 on my 40M 4 square stuff because it is surface wire. 
The aluminum wire I installed several years ago on that system is falling
apart, but the insulated stranded copper is still good. 

_________________
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


From garyk9gs at wi.rr.com  Wed Oct 22 23:25:52 2014
From: garyk9gs at wi.rr.com (Gary K9GS)
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2014 22:25:52 -0500
Subject: Topband: Radial Wire
In-Reply-To: <B6A1D4A2800D49E496C5298605E1A294@MAIN>
References: <1591051791.8949415.1414001826521.JavaMail.root@starpower.net>
	<54484AB4.7080104@wi.rr.com>
	<B6A1D4A2800D49E496C5298605E1A294@MAIN>
Message-ID: <54487540.4030805@wi.rr.com>

Thanks for all the great information.  I appreciate your experience.

My current installation is in the woods, not in a clear field.  I, 
unfortunately, won't have the luxury of burying the wire.  I'll have to 
lay it on the surface with staples holding it down.

Not much foot traffic to contend with but there are a lot of deer, 
squirrels and various wildlife to contend with.

This is to replace an existing radial field.  The majority of the wire 
used was the old 5 or 8 conductor ribbon style rotor cable that was 
separated into individual strands.  I've found many broken strands and 
the poor insulation hasn't weathered well.  Of course I'll leave the old 
radial field in place and just lay the new ones on top.

As others have mentioned the 16 ga stranded dog fence stuff looks pretty 
rugged.



On 10/22/2014 9:35 PM, Tom W8JI wrote:
>> Thank you very much for this source.  I was just looking this week for
>> wire prices.  I want to buy quite a lot for next summer's antenna
>> project.
>>
>> The nice thing is he's close enough I'll probably pick it up and save
>> shipping.
>>
>> BTW...any thoughts on solid vs stranded?  I do like to use insulated
>> wire as I think it lasts longer.  I was thinking 16 or 18 ga.
>
> When I did AM broadcast work, we would pull solid wire out of all sorts
> of stations built in the 1920's and 30's in all types of soil. Unless it
> was actually cut, it would be good.
>
> In my own Ham stuff, I primarily use #16 bare copper bus (which is soft
> drawn) wire. It lasts longer than I ever keep a house unless physically
> cut. If I pull some up after several years in the ground, it just barely
> shows light surface corrosion.
>
> I install mine with a plow on a tractor. I can pull a six inch deep
> radial, or any depth I want, at a few MPH. I have never broken a #16
> wire pulling it into the ground. I have never seen one fail from lightning.
>
> I personally would stay away from stranded copper, and would especially
> stay away from aluminum, steel, or steel cored wire (watch what you
> buy). Any solid copper #16 or larger, especially soft drawn, will last a
> lot longer than most of use ever will. I would not be afraid of anything
> solid copper and #16 or larger size.
>
> If you never plan on long term direct soil exposure, never plan on
> soldering it later for an alteration or repair without doing a lot of
> cleaning work, and never plan on silver soldering, stranded copper is
> also OK. I use stranded insulated #14 on my 40M 4 square stuff because
> it is surface wire. The aluminum wire I installed several years ago on
> that system is falling apart, but the insulated stranded copper is still
> good.
>

-- 
73,

Gary K9GS

Greater Milwaukee DX Association: http://www.gmdxa.org
Society of Midwest Contesters: http://www.w9smc.com
CW Ops #1032   http://www.cwops.org

************************************************

From w8ji at w8ji.com  Thu Oct 23 07:49:43 2014
From: w8ji at w8ji.com (Tom W8JI)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2014 07:49:43 -0400
Subject: Topband: Radial Wire
References: <1591051791.8949415.1414001826521.JavaMail.root@starpower.net>	<54484AB4.7080104@wi.rr.com><B6A1D4A2800D49E496C5298605E1A294@MAIN>
	<002b01cfee6f$e34deff0$a9e9cfd0$@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <14C440BEC77C4258B897A04587770D7D@MAIN>

> On your mention of Silver solder, do you mean typical circuit board silver
> solder or the "real" silver solder, such as used on copper tubing in high
> pressure refrigeration systems?
> I used the "real" silver solder to solder 3/8" copper tubing to Stainless
> Steel Ground rods below ground level.

I use KappTecZ when the joint is likely to have direct earth exposure or 
stress in the joint, although regular solder or "silver solder" from my 
wife's stained glass stuff has never given me problems above ground. 
KappTecZ solders almost anything very well with the correct flux.


From cx6vm.jorge at gmail.com  Thu Oct 23 08:08:57 2014
From: cx6vm.jorge at gmail.com (Jorge Diez - CX6VM)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2014 10:08:57 -0200
Subject: Topband: Radial Wire
In-Reply-To: <14C440BEC77C4258B897A04587770D7D@MAIN>
References: <1591051791.8949415.1414001826521.JavaMail.root@starpower.net>	<54484AB4.7080104@wi.rr.com><B6A1D4A2800D49E496C5298605E1A294@MAIN>	<002b01cfee6f$e34deff0$a9e9cfd0$@comcast.net>
	<14C440BEC77C4258B897A04587770D7D@MAIN>
Message-ID: <5448efd8.530dec0a.716e.219e@mx.google.com>

Hi

Where to buy KappTecZ in USA?

Couldn?t find it in eBay

73,
Jorge
CX6VM/CW5W

-----Mensaje original-----
De: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces at contesting.com] En nombre de Tom W8JI
Enviado el: jueves, 23 de octubre de 2014 09:50 a.m.
Para: jbwolf at comcast.net; topband at contesting.com
Asunto: Re: Topband: Radial Wire

> On your mention of Silver solder, do you mean typical circuit board 
> silver solder or the "real" silver solder, such as used on copper 
> tubing in high pressure refrigeration systems?
> I used the "real" silver solder to solder 3/8" copper tubing to 
> Stainless Steel Ground rods below ground level.

I use KappTecZ when the joint is likely to have direct earth exposure or
stress in the joint, although regular solder or "silver solder" from my
wife's stained glass stuff has never given me problems above ground. 
KappTecZ solders almost anything very well with the correct flux.

_________________
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


---
Este mensaje no contiene virus ni malware porque la protecci?n de avast! Antivirus est? activa.
http://www.avast.com


From aa7jv at atlanticbb.net  Thu Oct 23 10:55:59 2014
From: aa7jv at atlanticbb.net (GeorgeWallner)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2014 10:55:59 -0400
Subject: Topband: KP1
In-Reply-To: <if3f1osm6eg43s6oqlnpai4q.1414008635730@email.android.com>
References: <if3f1osm6eg43s6oqlnpai4q.1414008635730@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <web-34198842@be4.cluster1.echolabs.net>

Topbanders,

Rest assured that there will be a substantial 160 m 
operation from KP1. I am planning and building the low 
band antennas and gear right now.

We will be releasing more details later.

George,
AA7JV
KP1-5 Project Team Member

On Wed, 22 Oct 2014 15:10:35 -0500
  garyk9gs <garyk9gs at wi.rr.com> wrote:
> I think you only have to look at who's on the team to 
>KNOW they'll be on 160.?
> 
> 
> 73,
> 
> Gary K9GS
> 
> <div>-------- Original message --------</div><div>From: 
>David Raymond <daraymond at iowatelecom.net> 
></div><div>Date:10/22/2014  2:45 PM  (GMT-06:00) 
></div><div>To: Mike Waters <mikewate at gmail.com>,topband 
><topband at contesting.com> </div><div>Subject: Re: Topband: 
>KP1 </div><div>
> </div>One of the participants indicated to me they would 
>be on 160.
> 
> 73. . .Dave, W0FLS
> ----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "Mike Waters" <mikewate at gmail.com>
> To: "topband" <topband at contesting.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2014 2:20 PM
> Subject: Re: Topband: KP1
> 
> 
>> Thanks to you and to all who replied privately.
>> I didn't doubt that they would be on 160, I was just 
>>looking for more
>> information about this event. I didn't realize who this 
>>was. :-)
>>
>> 73, Mike
>> www.w0btu.com
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 1:48 PM, Chortek, Robert L <
>> Robert.Chrtek at berliner.com> wrote:
>>
>>> The KP5 operation had almost 2000 160 meter contacts, so 
>>>we can be sure
>>> they will have a big presence on the low bands, 
>>>including 160!
>>>
>>> Bob/AA6VB
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces at contesting.com] On 
>>>Behalf Of Mike
>>> Waters
>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2014 11:38 AM
>>> Cc: topband
>>> Subject: Re: Topband: KP1
>>>
>>> I couldn't find a thing there about 160 (or any other 
>>>band). Did I miss
>>> something?
>>>
>>> 73, Mike
>>> www.w0btu.com
>>>
>>> On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 1:27 PM, <wb6rse1 at mac.com> 
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>> > A new one for many on 160 coming in January. I?m sure 
>>>the team will
>>> > welcome any and all support.
>>> >
>>> > http://kp1-5.com/new/news.htm
>>> >
>>> _________________
>>> Topband Reflector Archives - 
>>>http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>>
>> _________________
>> Topband Reflector Archives - 
>>http://www.contesting.com/_topband 
> 
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - 
>http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - 
>http://www.contesting.com/_topband


From w8ji at w8ji.com  Thu Oct 23 12:52:50 2014
From: w8ji at w8ji.com (Tom W8JI)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2014 12:52:50 -0400
Subject: Topband: Radial Wire
References: <1591051791.8949415.1414001826521.JavaMail.root@starpower.net>	<54484AB4.7080104@wi.rr.com><B6A1D4A2800D49E496C5298605E1A294@MAIN>	<002b01cfee6f$e34deff0$a9e9cfd0$@comcast.net>
	<14C440BEC77C4258B897A04587770D7D@MAIN>
	<5448efd8.530dec0a.716e.219e@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <35C1B3F906AF4852A41CB7C828DF7DF6@MAIN>

Where to buy KappTecZ in USA?>>

This link:

http://www.kappalloy.com/products-solder.php





From jim at audiosystemsgroup.com  Thu Oct 23 13:12:32 2014
From: jim at audiosystemsgroup.com (Jim Brown)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2014 10:12:32 -0700
Subject: Topband: KP1
In-Reply-To: <web-34198842@be4.cluster1.echolabs.net>
References: <if3f1osm6eg43s6oqlnpai4q.1414008635730@email.android.com>
	<web-34198842@be4.cluster1.echolabs.net>
Message-ID: <54493700.8000700@audiosystemsgroup.com>

On 10/23/2014 7:55 AM, GeorgeWallner wrote:
> AA7JV
> KP1-5 Project Team Member 

With George on the team, our worries are over!  I expect to work them QRP.

73, Jim K9YC

From charlie-cunningham at nc.rr.com  Thu Oct 23 13:16:46 2014
From: charlie-cunningham at nc.rr.com (Charlie)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2014 13:16:46 -0400
Subject: Topband: KP1
In-Reply-To: <54493700.8000700@audiosystemsgroup.com>
References: <if3f1osm6eg43s6oqlnpai4q.1414008635730@email.android.com>	<web-34198842@be4.cluster1.echolabs.net>
	<54493700.8000700@audiosystemsgroup.com>
Message-ID: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAF0xXac1rOhFkn7GlcEWNIjCgAAAEAAAACRh2bZ3ucREiQFgaKXI1XUBAAAAAA==@nc.rr.com>

Really impressive team going down there!!

Charlie, K4OTV


-----Original Message-----
From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Jim Brown
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2014 1:13 PM
To: topband at contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: KP1

On 10/23/2014 7:55 AM, GeorgeWallner wrote:
> AA7JV
> KP1-5 Project Team Member 

With George on the team, our worries are over!  I expect to work them QRP.

73, Jim K9YC
_________________
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com


From herbert.schoenbohm at gmail.com  Thu Oct 23 13:34:16 2014
From: herbert.schoenbohm at gmail.com (Herbert Schoenbohm)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2014 13:34:16 -0400
Subject: Topband: KP1
In-Reply-To: <web-34198842@be4.cluster1.echolabs.net>
References: <if3f1osm6eg43s6oqlnpai4q.1414008635730@email.android.com>
	<web-34198842@be4.cluster1.echolabs.net>
Message-ID: <54493C18.8020006@gmail.com>

Good Luck George....I was the 160 op with the 1969 operation and worked 
several hundred on TB with a wire suspended above the water on the 
cliffs protruding across Lulu Bay.  I had hopes of hanging slopers from 
the lighthouse on top of the hill but getting the equipment and 
generator up there was not supported by the team. There is a ladder 
inside to do maintenance on the acetylene lights many years ago but I 
understand this was shut down and the entrance is most likely sealed.  
But a drone carrying a light filament line over the top of the 
lighthouse could provide a means of hauling up a suitable roop to put up 
a Delta loop which might be a real killer corner fed on 160.  It would 
take 3000 feet of coax to get to the operating positions unless split 
sites are planned for.  If a vertical is planned for lower down were 
most of the stations are set up, remember there was, and still is a rail 
system that was used to carry guano for shipment, and that steel if 
contiguous, might be part of a suitable artificial ground system.  
Beverages are great but remember during the set up the sharp cactus will 
pierce every shoe and pants so West Texas boots are the answer to avoid 
some real painful experience.


Herb Schoenbohm, KV4FZ (From the first ever TB operation from Navassa 
back when it was KC4)





On 10/23/2014 10:55 AM, GeorgeWallner wrote:
> Topbanders,
>
> Rest assured that there will be a substantial 160 m operation from 
> KP1. I am planning and building the low band antennas and gear right now.
>
> We will be releasing more details later.
>
> George,
> AA7JV
> KP1-5 Project Team Member
>
> On Wed, 22 Oct 2014 15:10:35 -0500
>  garyk9gs <garyk9gs at wi.rr.com> wrote:
>> I think you only have to look at who's on the team to KNOW they'll be 
>> on 160.
>>
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> Gary K9GS
>>
>> <div>-------- Original message --------</div><div>From: David Raymond 
>> <daraymond at iowatelecom.net> </div><div>Date:10/22/2014  2:45 PM  
>> (GMT-06:00) </div><div>To: Mike Waters <mikewate at gmail.com>,topband 
>> <topband at contesting.com> </div><div>Subject: Re: Topband: KP1 
>> </div><div>
>> </div>One of the participants indicated to me they would be on 160.
>>
>> 73. . .Dave, W0FLS
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Waters" <mikewate at gmail.com>
>> To: "topband" <topband at contesting.com>
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2014 2:20 PM
>> Subject: Re: Topband: KP1
>>
>>
>>> Thanks to you and to all who replied privately.
>>> I didn't doubt that they would be on 160, I was just looking for more
>>> information about this event. I didn't realize who this was. :-)
>>>
>>> 73, Mike
>>> www.w0btu.com
>>>
>>> On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 1:48 PM, Chortek, Robert L <
>>> Robert.Chrtek at berliner.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The KP5 operation had almost 2000 160 meter contacts, so we can be 
>>>> sure
>>>> they will have a big presence on the low bands, including 160!
>>>>
>>>> Bob/AA6VB
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of 
>>>> Mike
>>>> Waters
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2014 11:38 AM
>>>> Cc: topband
>>>> Subject: Re: Topband: KP1
>>>>
>>>> I couldn't find a thing there about 160 (or any other band). Did I 
>>>> miss
>>>> something?
>>>>
>>>> 73, Mike
>>>> www.w0btu.com
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 1:27 PM, <wb6rse1 at mac.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > A new one for many on 160 coming in January. I?m sure the team will
>>>> > welcome any and all support.
>>>> >
>>>> > http://kp1-5.com/new/news.htm
>>>> >
>>>> _________________
>>>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>>>
>>> _________________
>>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband 
>>
>> _________________
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>> _________________
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


From cx6vm.jorge at gmail.com  Thu Oct 23 13:59:21 2014
From: cx6vm.jorge at gmail.com (Jorge Diez - CX6VM)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2014 15:59:21 -0200
Subject: Topband: KP1
In-Reply-To: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAF0xXac1rOhFkn7GlcEWNIjCgAAAEAAAACRh2bZ3ucREiQFgaKXI1XUBAAAAAA==@nc.rr.com>
References: <if3f1osm6eg43s6oqlnpai4q.1414008635730@email.android.com>
	<web-34198842@be4.cluster1.echolabs.net>
	<54493700.8000700@audiosystemsgroup.com>
	<!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAF0xXac1rOhFkn7GlcEWNIjCgAAAEAAAACRh2bZ3ucREiQFgaKXI1XUBAAAAAA==@nc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <CA+h_a7+GqW824v8h7LHCeH=-jj4NoAEi9RbHFMY+tDgVzEm-Yg@mail.gmail.com>

will be a USA Fest!

if signal is like KV4FZ or PJ2T we have some posibility, but will be near
impossible to break USA pile up with KP1 RX antennas pointing to the north
:-(

73,
Jorge
CX6VM/CW5W

2014-10-23 15:16 GMT-02:00 Charlie <charlie-cunningham at nc.rr.com>:

> Really impressive team going down there!!
>
> Charlie, K4OTV
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Jim
> Brown
> Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2014 1:13 PM
> To: topband at contesting.com
> Subject: Re: Topband: KP1
>
> On 10/23/2014 7:55 AM, GeorgeWallner wrote:
> > AA7JV
> > KP1-5 Project Team Member
>
> With George on the team, our worries are over!  I expect to work them QRP.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
>
> ---
> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus
> protection is active.
> http://www.avast.com
>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>



-- 
73,
Jorge
CX6VM/CW5W

From n5ia at zia-connection.com  Thu Oct 23 15:17:02 2014
From: n5ia at zia-connection.com (Milt -- N5IA)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2014 12:17:02 -0700
Subject: Topband: KP1
In-Reply-To: <CA+h_a7+GqW824v8h7LHCeH=-jj4NoAEi9RbHFMY+tDgVzEm-Yg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <if3f1osm6eg43s6oqlnpai4q.1414008635730@email.android.com><web-34198842@be4.cluster1.echolabs.net><54493700.8000700@a
	udiosystemsgroup.com><!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAF0xXac1rOhFkn7GlcEWNIjCgAAAEAAAACRh2bZ3ucREiQFgaKXI1XUBAAAAAA==@nc.rr.com>
	<CA+h_a7+GqW824v8h7LHCeH=-jj4NoAEi9RbHFMY+tDgVzEm-Yg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0603FC18F8C94495BB9CF5F95B26B748@MiltVostro2010>

Well, Charlie, I would hope that they will have good RX antennas to all 
azimuths, and pay attention to gray line and directional calls for the 
non-NA, EU and JA paths.

That is what we did at VP6DX, and it worked superbly.  I have confidence 
George and whomever else is on his TB crew will pay careful attention to all 
corners of the globe.

Congratulations to the KP1-5 consortium for pulling it off.

73 de Milt, N5IA

-----Original Message----- 
From: Jorge Diez - CX6VM
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2014 10:59 AM
To: Charlie
Cc: topband at contesting.com ; jim at audiosystemsgroup.com
Subject: Re: Topband: KP1

will be a USA Fest!

if signal is like KV4FZ or PJ2T we have some posibility, but will be near
impossible to break USA pile up with KP1 RX antennas pointing to the north
:-(

73,
Jorge
CX6VM/CW5W




-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2014.0.4765 / Virus Database: 4040/8440 - Release Date: 10/23/14


From cx6vm.jorge at gmail.com  Thu Oct 23 15:58:55 2014
From: cx6vm.jorge at gmail.com (Jorge Diez - CX6VM)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2014 17:58:55 -0200
Subject: Topband: KP1
In-Reply-To: <0603FC18F8C94495BB9CF5F95B26B748@MiltVostro2010>
References: <if3f1osm6eg43s6oqlnpai4q.1414008635730@email.android.com><web-34198842@be4.cluster1.echolabs.net><54493700.8000700@a
	udiosystemsgroup.com><!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAF0xXac1rOhFkn7GlcEWNIjCgAAAEAAAACRh2bZ3ucREiQFgaKXI1XUBAAAAAA==@nc.rr.com>
	<CA+h_a7+GqW824v8h7LHCeH=-jj4NoAEi9RbHFMY+tDgVzEm-Yg@mail.gmail.com>
	<0603FC18F8C94495BB9CF5F95B26B748@MiltVostro2010>
Message-ID: <54495dfe.5427ec0a.7701.3f86@mx.google.com>

Hi Milt and others that sent me direct emails

I couldn?t find the operators list, so don?t know if George is just making
the antennas or if he is going also to operate, I hope so, I always worked
George on his dxpeditions, also in VK9GMW :-)

I hope a great group and of course they will pay attention to EU and JA, but
all this are between 315 and 50 degrees and we are at 160 degrees

Anyway I hope the best from this DXPedition!

73,
Jorge
CX6VM/CW5W


-----Mensaje original-----
De: Milt -- N5IA [mailto:n5ia at zia-connection.com] 
Enviado el: jueves, 23 de octubre de 2014 05:17 p.m.
Para: Jorge Diez - CX6VM; Charlie
CC: topband at contesting.com; jim at audiosystemsgroup.com
Asunto: Re: Topband: KP1

Well, Charlie, I would hope that they will have good RX antennas to all
azimuths, and pay attention to gray line and directional calls for the
non-NA, EU and JA paths.

That is what we did at VP6DX, and it worked superbly.  I have confidence
George and whomever else is on his TB crew will pay careful attention to all
corners of the globe.

Congratulations to the KP1-5 consortium for pulling it off.

73 de Milt, N5IA

-----Original Message-----
From: Jorge Diez - CX6VM
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2014 10:59 AM
To: Charlie
Cc: topband at contesting.com ; jim at audiosystemsgroup.com
Subject: Re: Topband: KP1

will be a USA Fest!

if signal is like KV4FZ or PJ2T we have some posibility, but will be near
impossible to break USA pile up with KP1 RX antennas pointing to the north
:-(

73,
Jorge
CX6VM/CW5W




-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2014.0.4765 / Virus Database: 4040/8440 - Release Date: 10/23/14


---
Este mensaje no contiene virus ni malware porque la protecci?n de avast! Antivirus est? activa.
http://www.avast.com


From herbert.schoenbohm at gmail.com  Thu Oct 23 15:59:08 2014
From: herbert.schoenbohm at gmail.com (Herbert Schoenbohm)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2014 15:59:08 -0400
Subject: Topband: KP1
In-Reply-To: <CA+h_a7+GqW824v8h7LHCeH=-jj4NoAEi9RbHFMY+tDgVzEm-Yg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <if3f1osm6eg43s6oqlnpai4q.1414008635730@email.android.com>	<web-34198842@be4.cluster1.echolabs.net>	<54493700.8000700@audiosystemsgroup.com>	<!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAF0xXac1rOhFkn7GlcEWNIjCgAAAEAAAACRh2bZ3ucREiQFgaKXI1XUBAAAAAA==@nc.rr.com>
	<CA+h_a7+GqW824v8h7LHCeH=-jj4NoAEi9RbHFMY+tDgVzEm-Yg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <54495E0C.7070909@gmail.com>

Since the landing is planned by chopper the light house would be a great 
place to set up the operation.  Sure would be a super place for low band 
antennas with Beverages in many directions.  Here is a great pix of the 
lighthouse.

http://www.birdlife.org/datazone/userfiles/file/IBAs/CaribCntryPDFs/navassa.pdf


Herb Schoenbohm, KV4FZ





On 10/23/2014 1:59 PM, Jorge Diez - CX6VM wrote:
> will be a USA Fest!
>
> if signal is like KV4FZ or PJ2T we have some posibility, but will be near
> impossible to break USA pile up with KP1 RX antennas pointing to the north
> :-(
>
> 73,
> Jorge
> CX6VM/CW5W
>
> 2014-10-23 15:16 GMT-02:00 Charlie <charlie-cunningham at nc.rr.com>:
>
>> Really impressive team going down there!!
>>
>> Charlie, K4OTV
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Jim
>> Brown
>> Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2014 1:13 PM
>> To: topband at contesting.com
>> Subject: Re: Topband: KP1
>>
>> On 10/23/2014 7:55 AM, GeorgeWallner wrote:
>>> AA7JV
>>> KP1-5 Project Team Member
>> With George on the team, our worries are over!  I expect to work them QRP.
>>
>> 73, Jim K9YC
>> _________________
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>
>>
>> ---
>> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus
>> protection is active.
>> http://www.avast.com
>>
>> _________________
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>
>
>


From charlie-cunningham at nc.rr.com  Thu Oct 23 16:13:33 2014
From: charlie-cunningham at nc.rr.com (Charlie)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2014 16:13:33 -0400
Subject: Topband: KP1
In-Reply-To: <0603FC18F8C94495BB9CF5F95B26B748@MiltVostro2010>
References: <if3f1osm6eg43s6oqlnpai4q.1414008635730@email.android.com><web-34198842@be4.cluster1.echolabs.net><54493700.8000700@a
	udiosystemsgroup.com><!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAF0xXac1rOhFkn7GlcEWNIjCgAAAEAAAACRh2bZ3ucREiQFgaKXI1XUBAAAAAA==@nc.rr.com>
	<CA+h_a7+GqW824v8h7LHCeH=-jj4NoAEi9RbHFMY+tDgVzEm-Yg@mail.gmail.com>
	<0603FC18F8C94495BB9CF5F95B26B748@MiltVostro2010>
Message-ID: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAF0xXac1rOhFkn7GlcEWNIjCgAAAEAAAAKY0wW8fNpZPhQwflkVXC4UBAAAAAA==@nc.rr.com>

Well, Milt

I hope so! I've let my antennas go to blazes for the past couple years while
I've battled the MS that's reared its head in my old age after a long
remission of about 28 years. Lost my topband antennas to a hurricane a few
years back. Need to see if I can get another inverted L with a few elevated
radials up, by January, and put  up a KAZ terminated RX loop pointing south
for them. I  had really great success with the last of those that I built on
160, 80, 40 and 30m. Great RX antenna on my limited real estate! I worked
you folks from VP6DX on several bands, but don't remember if I got you on
topband. Have to check my logs!.  Not a big deal I worked Navassa and
Desecheo years ago, when AA4NC went to KP1 and someone on KP5. But I'd
really like to get something going on 160 again! I expect that the guys that
are going will pay attention to all the more challenging paths. The test
will be whether the USA mob will behave and cooperate!  

73,
Charlie, K4OTV

-----Original Message-----
From: Milt -- N5IA [mailto:n5ia at zia-connection.com] 
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2014 3:17 PM
To: Jorge Diez - CX6VM; Charlie
Cc: topband at contesting.com; jim at audiosystemsgroup.com
Subject: Re: Topband: KP1

Well, Charlie, I would hope that they will have good RX antennas to all
azimuths, and pay attention to gray line and directional calls for the
non-NA, EU and JA paths.

That is what we did at VP6DX, and it worked superbly.  I have confidence
George and whomever else is on his TB crew will pay careful attention to all
corners of the globe.

Congratulations to the KP1-5 consortium for pulling it off.

73 de Milt, N5IA

-----Original Message-----
From: Jorge Diez - CX6VM
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2014 10:59 AM
To: Charlie
Cc: topband at contesting.com ; jim at audiosystemsgroup.com
Subject: Re: Topband: KP1

will be a USA Fest!

if signal is like KV4FZ or PJ2T we have some posibility, but will be near
impossible to break USA pile up with KP1 RX antennas pointing to the north
:-(

73,
Jorge
CX6VM/CW5W




-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2014.0.4765 / Virus Database: 4040/8440 - Release Date: 10/23/14


---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com


From charlie-cunningham at nc.rr.com  Thu Oct 23 16:18:51 2014
From: charlie-cunningham at nc.rr.com (Charlie)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2014 16:18:51 -0400
Subject: Topband: KP1
In-Reply-To: <54495dfe.5427ec0a.7701.3f86@mx.google.com>
References: <if3f1osm6eg43s6oqlnpai4q.1414008635730@email.android.com><web-34198842@be4.cluster1.echolabs.net><54493700.8000700@a	udiosystemsgroup.com><!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAF0xXac1rOhFkn7GlcEWNIjCgAAAEAAAACRh2bZ3ucREiQFgaKXI1XUBAAAAAA==@nc.rr.com>	<CA+h_a7+GqW824v8h7LHCeH=-jj4NoAEi9RbHFMY+tDgVzEm-Yg@mail.gmail.com>	<0603FC18F8C94495BB9CF5F95B26B748@MiltVostro2010>
	<54495dfe.5427ec0a.7701.3f86@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAF0xXac1rOhFkn7GlcEWNIjCgAAAEAAAAD4bkPq2t4NAkljgcgeFvN0BAAAAAA==@nc.rr.com>

Hi, Jorge

I'll send you a link to the KP1/KP5 website where you can find the
operators' list and photos.  What would be good for you folks in SA would be
if they had a terminated RX loop pointed south, with NA in the null to the
rear! 

73,
Charlie, K4OTV

-----Original Message-----
From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Jorge
Diez - CX6VM
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2014 3:59 PM
To: 'Milt -- N5IA'
Cc: topband at contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: KP1

Hi Milt and others that sent me direct emails

I couldn?t find the operators list, so don?t know if George is just making
the antennas or if he is going also to operate, I hope so, I always worked
George on his dxpeditions, also in VK9GMW :-)

I hope a great group and of course they will pay attention to EU and JA, but
all this are between 315 and 50 degrees and we are at 160 degrees

Anyway I hope the best from this DXPedition!

73,
Jorge
CX6VM/CW5W


-----Mensaje original-----
De: Milt -- N5IA [mailto:n5ia at zia-connection.com] Enviado el: jueves, 23 de
octubre de 2014 05:17 p.m.
Para: Jorge Diez - CX6VM; Charlie
CC: topband at contesting.com; jim at audiosystemsgroup.com
Asunto: Re: Topband: KP1

Well, Charlie, I would hope that they will have good RX antennas to all
azimuths, and pay attention to gray line and directional calls for the
non-NA, EU and JA paths.

That is what we did at VP6DX, and it worked superbly.  I have confidence
George and whomever else is on his TB crew will pay careful attention to all
corners of the globe.

Congratulations to the KP1-5 consortium for pulling it off.

73 de Milt, N5IA

-----Original Message-----
From: Jorge Diez - CX6VM
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2014 10:59 AM
To: Charlie
Cc: topband at contesting.com ; jim at audiosystemsgroup.com
Subject: Re: Topband: KP1

will be a USA Fest!

if signal is like KV4FZ or PJ2T we have some posibility, but will be near
impossible to break USA pile up with KP1 RX antennas pointing to the north
:-(

73,
Jorge
CX6VM/CW5W




-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2014.0.4765 / Virus Database: 4040/8440 - Release Date: 10/23/14


---
Este mensaje no contiene virus ni malware porque la protecci?n de avast!
Antivirus est? activa.
http://www.avast.com

_________________
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com


From charlie-cunningham at nc.rr.com  Thu Oct 23 16:49:46 2014
From: charlie-cunningham at nc.rr.com (Charlie)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2014 16:49:46 -0400
Subject: Topband: KP1
In-Reply-To: <54495dfe.5427ec0a.7701.3f86@mx.google.com>
References: <if3f1osm6eg43s6oqlnpai4q.1414008635730@email.android.com><web-34198842@be4.cluster1.echolabs.net><54493700.8000700@a	udiosystemsgroup.com><!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAF0xXac1rOhFkn7GlcEWNIjCgAAAEAAAACRh2bZ3ucREiQFgaKXI1XUBAAAAAA==@nc.rr.com>	<CA+h_a7+GqW824v8h7LHCeH=-jj4NoAEi9RbHFMY+tDgVzEm-Yg@mail.gmail.com>	<0603FC18F8C94495BB9CF5F95B26B748@MiltVostro2010>
	<54495dfe.5427ec0a.7701.3f86@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAF0xXac1rOhFkn7GlcEWNIjCgAAAEAAAAH2NbNXGF9JPuSZsvPT7v8QBAAAAAA==@nc.rr.com>

Jorge:

http://kp1-5.com/new/news.htm

Regards,
Charlie, K4OTV

-----Original Message-----
From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Jorge
Diez - CX6VM
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2014 3:59 PM
To: 'Milt -- N5IA'
Cc: topband at contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: KP1

Hi Milt and others that sent me direct emails

I couldn?t find the operators list, so don?t know if George is just making
the antennas or if he is going also to operate, I hope so, I always worked
George on his dxpeditions, also in VK9GMW :-)

I hope a great group and of course they will pay attention to EU and JA, but
all this are between 315 and 50 degrees and we are at 160 degrees

Anyway I hope the best from this DXPedition!

73,
Jorge
CX6VM/CW5W


-----Mensaje original-----
De: Milt -- N5IA [mailto:n5ia at zia-connection.com] 
Enviado el: jueves, 23 de octubre de 2014 05:17 p.m.
Para: Jorge Diez - CX6VM; Charlie
CC: topband at contesting.com; jim at audiosystemsgroup.com
Asunto: Re: Topband: KP1

Well, Charlie, I would hope that they will have good RX antennas to all
azimuths, and pay attention to gray line and directional calls for the
non-NA, EU and JA paths.

That is what we did at VP6DX, and it worked superbly.  I have confidence
George and whomever else is on his TB crew will pay careful attention to all
corners of the globe.

Congratulations to the KP1-5 consortium for pulling it off.

73 de Milt, N5IA

-----Original Message-----
From: Jorge Diez - CX6VM
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2014 10:59 AM
To: Charlie
Cc: topband at contesting.com ; jim at audiosystemsgroup.com
Subject: Re: Topband: KP1

will be a USA Fest!

if signal is like KV4FZ or PJ2T we have some posibility, but will be near
impossible to break USA pile up with KP1 RX antennas pointing to the north
:-(

73,
Jorge
CX6VM/CW5W




-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2014.0.4765 / Virus Database: 4040/8440 - Release Date: 10/23/14


---
Este mensaje no contiene virus ni malware porque la protecci?n de avast!
Antivirus est? activa.
http://www.avast.com

_________________
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com


From herbert.schoenbohm at gmail.com  Thu Oct 23 16:49:56 2014
From: herbert.schoenbohm at gmail.com (Herbert Schoenbohm)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2014 16:49:56 -0400
Subject: Topband: KP1
In-Reply-To: <F8251568337C4B9C879FFE2CAB3F1DD3@computer1>
References: <if3f1osm6eg43s6oqlnpai4q.1414008635730@email.android.com>	<web-34198842@be4.cluster1.echolabs.net>	<54493700.8000700@audiosystemsgroup.com>	<!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAF0xXac1rOhFkn7GlcEWNIjCgAAAEAAAACRh2bZ3ucREiQFgaKXI1XUBAAAAAA==@nc.rr.com><CA+h_a7+GqW824v8h7LHCeH=-jj4NoAEi9RbHFMY+tDgVzEm-Yg@mail.gmail.com>
	<54495E0C.7070909@gmail.com>
	<F8251568337C4B9C879FFE2CAB3F1DD3@computer1>
Message-ID: <544969F4.3030404@gmail.com>

We recently did a swap with Haiti for a part of North Miami and the 
Haitians got the better part of the deal.?

Herb, KV4FZ
On 10/23/2014 4:32 PM, Carl wrote:
> Im surprised the US is still claiming ownership as it is only 32 miles 
> from Haiti and there is no economic or military benefit. The US strong 
> armed control from Haiti in 1856 and Haiti has still claimed it ever 
> since; it is even in their constitution.
>
> Grab it while you can before it becomes a deleted country.
>
> Carl
> KM1H
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Herbert Schoenbohm" 
> <herbert.schoenbohm at gmail.com>
> To: <topband at contesting.com>
> Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2014 3:59 PM
> Subject: Re: Topband: KP1
>
>
>> Since the landing is planned by chopper the light house would be a 
>> great place to set up the operation. Sure would be a super place for 
>> low band antennas with Beverages in many directions.  Here is a great 
>> pix of the lighthouse.
>>
>> http://www.birdlife.org/datazone/userfiles/file/IBAs/CaribCntryPDFs/navassa.pdf 
>>
>>
>>
>> Herb Schoenbohm, KV4FZ
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 10/23/2014 1:59 PM, Jorge Diez - CX6VM wrote:
>>> will be a USA Fest!
>>>
>>> if signal is like KV4FZ or PJ2T we have some posibility, but will be 
>>> near
>>> impossible to break USA pile up with KP1 RX antennas pointing to the 
>>> north
>>> :-(
>>>
>>> 73,
>>> Jorge
>>> CX6VM/CW5W
>>>
>>> 2014-10-23 15:16 GMT-02:00 Charlie <charlie-cunningham at nc.rr.com>:
>>>
>>>> Really impressive team going down there!!
>>>>
>>>> Charlie, K4OTV
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Jim
>>>> Brown
>>>> Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2014 1:13 PM
>>>> To: topband at contesting.com
>>>> Subject: Re: Topband: KP1
>>>>
>>>> On 10/23/2014 7:55 AM, GeorgeWallner wrote:
>>>>> AA7JV
>>>>> KP1-5 Project Team Member
>>>> With George on the team, our worries are over!  I expect to work 
>>>> them QRP.
>>>>
>>>> 73, Jim K9YC
>>>> _________________
>>>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---
>>>> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus
>>>> protection is active.
>>>> http://www.avast.com
>>>>
>>>> _________________
>>>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _________________
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>
>>
>> -----
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 2015.0.5315 / Virus Database: 4181/8439 - Release Date: 
>> 10/23/14
>>
>


From cx6vm.jorge at gmail.com  Thu Oct 23 17:07:04 2014
From: cx6vm.jorge at gmail.com (Jorge Diez - CX6VM)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2014 19:07:04 -0200
Subject: Topband: KP1
In-Reply-To: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAF0xXac1rOhFkn7GlcEWNIjCgAAAEAAAAH2NbNXGF9JPuSZsvPT7v8QBAAAAAA==@nc.rr.com>
References: <if3f1osm6eg43s6oqlnpai4q.1414008635730@email.android.com><web-34198842@be4.cluster1.echolabs.net><54493700.8000700@a	udiosystemsgroup.com><!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAF0xXac1rOhFkn7GlcEWNIjCgAAAEAAAACRh2bZ3ucREiQFgaKXI1XUBAAAAAA==@nc.rr.com>	<CA+h_a7+GqW824v8h7LHCeH=-jj4NoAEi9RbHFMY+tDgVzEm-Yg@mail.gmail.com>	<0603FC18F8C94495BB9CF5F95B26B748@MiltVostro2010>
	<54495dfe.5427ec0a.7701.3f86@mx.google.com>
	<!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAF0xXac1rOhFkn7GlcEWNIjCgAAAEAAAAH2NbNXGF9JPuSZsvPT7v8QBAAAAAA==@nc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <54496df7.1228ec0a.3f3a.4498@mx.google.com>

Thanks Charlie

I found a direct link here
http://69.89.25.185/~trexsoft/t-rexsoftware.com/k1n/team.htm

Great guys!

73,
Jorge
CX6VM/CW5W

-----Mensaje original-----
De: Charlie [mailto:charlie-cunningham at nc.rr.com] 
Enviado el: jueves, 23 de octubre de 2014 06:50 p.m.
Para: 'Jorge Diez - CX6VM'; 'Milt -- N5IA'
CC: topband at contesting.com
Asunto: RE: Topband: KP1

Jorge:

http://kp1-5.com/new/news.htm

Regards,
Charlie, K4OTV

-----Original Message-----
From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Jorge
Diez - CX6VM
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2014 3:59 PM
To: 'Milt -- N5IA'
Cc: topband at contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: KP1

Hi Milt and others that sent me direct emails

I couldn?t find the operators list, so don?t know if George is just making
the antennas or if he is going also to operate, I hope so, I always worked
George on his dxpeditions, also in VK9GMW :-)

I hope a great group and of course they will pay attention to EU and JA, but
all this are between 315 and 50 degrees and we are at 160 degrees

Anyway I hope the best from this DXPedition!

73,
Jorge
CX6VM/CW5W


-----Mensaje original-----
De: Milt -- N5IA [mailto:n5ia at zia-connection.com] Enviado el: jueves, 23 de
octubre de 2014 05:17 p.m.
Para: Jorge Diez - CX6VM; Charlie
CC: topband at contesting.com; jim at audiosystemsgroup.com
Asunto: Re: Topband: KP1

Well, Charlie, I would hope that they will have good RX antennas to all
azimuths, and pay attention to gray line and directional calls for the
non-NA, EU and JA paths.

That is what we did at VP6DX, and it worked superbly.  I have confidence
George and whomever else is on his TB crew will pay careful attention to all
corners of the globe.

Congratulations to the KP1-5 consortium for pulling it off.

73 de Milt, N5IA

-----Original Message-----
From: Jorge Diez - CX6VM
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2014 10:59 AM
To: Charlie
Cc: topband at contesting.com ; jim at audiosystemsgroup.com
Subject: Re: Topband: KP1

will be a USA Fest!

if signal is like KV4FZ or PJ2T we have some posibility, but will be near
impossible to break USA pile up with KP1 RX antennas pointing to the north
:-(

73,
Jorge
CX6VM/CW5W




-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2014.0.4765 / Virus Database: 4040/8440 - Release Date: 10/23/14


---
Este mensaje no contiene virus ni malware porque la protecci?n de avast!
Antivirus est? activa.
http://www.avast.com

_________________
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus
protection is active.
http://www.avast.com


---
Este mensaje no contiene virus ni malware porque la protecci?n de avast! Antivirus est? activa.
http://www.avast.com


From charlie-cunningham at nc.rr.com  Thu Oct 23 17:50:03 2014
From: charlie-cunningham at nc.rr.com (Charlie)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2014 17:50:03 -0400
Subject: Topband: KP1
In-Reply-To: <54495E0C.7070909@gmail.com>
References: <if3f1osm6eg43s6oqlnpai4q.1414008635730@email.android.com>	<web-34198842@be4.cluster1.echolabs.net>	<54493700.8000700@audiosystemsgroup.com>	<!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAF0xXac1rOhFkn7GlcEWNIjCgAAAEAAAACRh2bZ3ucREiQFgaKXI1XUBAAAAAA==@nc.rr.com>	<CA+h_a7+GqW824v8h7LHCeH=-jj4NoAEi9RbHFMY+tDgVzEm-Yg@mail.gmail.com>
	<54495E0C.7070909@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAF0xXac1rOhFkn7GlcEWNIjCgAAAEAAAAHzX969vlXFGhPfqlY4j08QBAAAAAA==@nc.rr.com>

I surely agree, Herb! Although, putting up a field of Beverages would be a
lot of work for an expedition! I might opt for a few terminated loops or one
that could be rotated! That's what they used on the FO0AAA expedition a few
years back (a KAZ terminated loop designed by ON4UN) - and it worked very
well!!

I expect it will be lots of fun!!

73,
Charlie, K4OTV



-----Original Message-----
From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Herbert
Schoenbohm
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2014 3:59 PM
To: topband at contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: KP1

Since the landing is planned by chopper the light house would be a great
place to set up the operation.  Sure would be a super place for low band
antennas with Beverages in many directions.  Here is a great pix of the
lighthouse.

http://www.birdlife.org/datazone/userfiles/file/IBAs/CaribCntryPDFs/navassa.
pdf


Herb Schoenbohm, KV4FZ





On 10/23/2014 1:59 PM, Jorge Diez - CX6VM wrote:
> will be a USA Fest!
>
> if signal is like KV4FZ or PJ2T we have some posibility, but will be 
> near impossible to break USA pile up with KP1 RX antennas pointing to 
> the north :-(
>
> 73,
> Jorge
> CX6VM/CW5W
>
> 2014-10-23 15:16 GMT-02:00 Charlie <charlie-cunningham at nc.rr.com>:
>
>> Really impressive team going down there!!
>>
>> Charlie, K4OTV
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of 
>> Jim Brown
>> Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2014 1:13 PM
>> To: topband at contesting.com
>> Subject: Re: Topband: KP1
>>
>> On 10/23/2014 7:55 AM, GeorgeWallner wrote:
>>> AA7JV
>>> KP1-5 Project Team Member
>> With George on the team, our worries are over!  I expect to work them
QRP.
>>
>> 73, Jim K9YC
>> _________________
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>
>>
>> ---
>> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus 
>> protection is active.
>> http://www.avast.com
>>
>> _________________
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>
>
>

_________________
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
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From n5ia at zia-connection.com  Thu Oct 23 18:21:36 2014
From: n5ia at zia-connection.com (Milt -- N5IA)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2014 15:21:36 -0700
Subject: Topband: KP1
In-Reply-To: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAF0xXac1rOhFkn7GlcEWNIjCgAAAEAAAAHzX969vlXFGhPfqlY4j08QBAAAAAA==@nc.rr.com>
References: <if3f1osm6eg43s6oqlnpai4q.1414008635730@email.android.com>	<web-34198842@be4.cluster1.echolabs.net>	<54493700.8000700@audiosystemsgroup.com>	<!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAF0xXac1rOhFkn7GlcEWNIjCgAAAEAAAACRh2bZ3ucREiQFgaKXI1XUBAAAAAA==@nc.rr.com>	<CA+h_a7+GqW824v8h7LHCeH=-jj4NoAEi9RbHFMY+tDgVzEm-Yg@mail.gmail.com><54495E0C.7070909@gmail.com>
	<!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAF0xXac1rOhFkn7GlcEWNIjCgAAAEAAAAHzX969vlXFGhPfqlY4j08QBAAAAAA==@nc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <D6E47DEE29084230973734C9E25A8EA3@MiltVostro2010>

Her,

Thanks for the photo, and it sure does appear to be a superb location for 
the Top Band stations.

Charlie,  It took Robin and I approximately 2 full, long days to deploy the 
entire Beverage system at VP6DX.  That is 3 x 2 wire/ 1 WL bi-directional 
Beverages, one phased set of bi-directional 2-wire/ 1 WL Beverages, 
appropriate band filters, signal splitters, preamps, and remote 8 position 
switches.  Then we laid out 3 x 400 Meter feed lines and control line to the 
two camps; one set each for the 80 M CW, 75 M SSB, and the 160 M stations. 
Plus a bunch more that takes too much time to tell.

Was it worth it?  YES, YES and YES!!!!!!!!!  All it takes is planning and 
commitment.

A number of the unkowning/ not understanding operator members of the VP6DX 
team verbally questioned "WHY are those two spending SO MUCH time on those 
RX antennas?"  But when it came their turn to operate those stations 
equipped with those RX antennas they became believers immediately.  After 
one particular night the 160 M station op commented at daybreak while 
nursing 'bleeding' ears, "No Beverages, no contacts".  Yet that op put more 
than 200 more DX contacts in the 160 M log that night.  Tropical QRN is a 
real killer.  You have to go prepared to properly combat it.

Even though the 75 M station was equipped with a full size 4-Square, the 
Beverage RX antennas were what made it NOT an alligator.

A properly equipped and deployed RX antenna system for the low band stations 
will double or more the quantity of contacts on 160, 80 & 75 Meters over the 
nominal 2 week life of a DXpediton.

If they don't have room for Beverages then the terminated loops are a great 
2nd choice.  If this DXpedition has permission to install at the lighthouse 
location, and if the DXpedition leaders are into the 2 camp install a la 
Ducie, Malpelo and Amsterdam, then the helicopter delivered equipment should 
make it a snap.

Here's to a good one!!!!!!!!

73 de Milt, N5IA

-----Original Message----- 
From: Charlie
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2014 2:50 PM
To: 'Herbert Schoenbohm' ; topband at contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: KP1

I surely agree, Herb! Although, putting up a field of Beverages would be a
lot of work for an expedition! I might opt for a few terminated loops or one
that could be rotated! That's what they used on the FO0AAA expedition a few
years back (a KAZ terminated loop designed by ON4UN) - and it worked very
well!!

I expect it will be lots of fun!!

73,
Charlie, K4OTV



-----Original Message-----
From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Herbert
Schoenbohm
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2014 3:59 PM
To: topband at contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: KP1

Since the landing is planned by chopper the light house would be a great
place to set up the operation.  Sure would be a super place for low band
antennas with Beverages in many directions.  Here is a great pix of the
lighthouse.

http://www.birdlife.org/datazone/userfiles/file/IBAs/CaribCntryPDFs/navassa.
pdf

4765 / Virus Database: 4040/8440 - Release Date: 10/23/14 



-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2014.0.4765 / Virus Database: 4040/8440 - Release Date: 10/23/14


From n4is at comcast.net  Thu Oct 23 18:33:58 2014
From: n4is at comcast.net (JC)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2014 18:33:58 -0400
Subject: Topband: WATCH OUT !!Did you get a new cable modem from Comcast?
	Arris Modem equal lots of QRM
Message-ID: <012d01cfef11$7042c420$50c84c60$@comcast.net>

Hi guys

I would like to share with you what NX4D just found out. Doug has
experiencing a strong noise on top band for almost a year. He did try to
find it everywhere, disconnected all appliances in the house and the noise
was still roaring.

For some coincidence Dug removed the cable from the modem and the noise
quit. The issue is that the Arris modem has an internal battery to work
without AC power and when you remove it from the AC line the modem is still
generating noise and you can come up into a conclusion the modem is clean.

It is not, actually there are  several reports of RFI going on for several
years and FCC is doing nothing to stop it.

Here another source of information about that modem

http://forums.comcast.com/t5/Voice-Service-and-Equipment/RFI-Caused-by-Arris
-Modem/td-p/548591

Doug also found many complaints about Cisco Modems too, especially the
switching supply wall warts.

So watch out  is you have Comcast cable modem, it is necessary to choke the
cable and the AC cord with FT240 # 31. With this fix ,the noise dropped from
s8 to s0 but still audible at Doug receiver.

Regards
JC
N4IS



From charlie-cunningham at nc.rr.com  Thu Oct 23 18:44:59 2014
From: charlie-cunningham at nc.rr.com (Charlie)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2014 18:44:59 -0400
Subject: Topband: KP1
In-Reply-To: <D6E47DEE29084230973734C9E25A8EA3@MiltVostro2010>
References: <if3f1osm6eg43s6oqlnpai4q.1414008635730@email.android.com>	<web-34198842@be4.cluster1.echolabs.net>	<54493700.8000700@audiosystemsgroup.com>	<!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAF0xXac1rOhFkn7GlcEWNIjCgAAAEAAAACRh2bZ3ucREiQFgaKXI1XUBAAAAAA==@nc.rr.com>	<CA+h_a7+GqW824v8h7LHCeH=-jj4NoAEi9RbHFMY+tDgVzEm-Yg@mail.gmail.com><54495E0C.7070909@gmail.com>
	<!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAF0xXac1rOhFkn7GlcEWNIjCgAAAEAAAAHzX969vlXFGhPfqlY4j08QBAAAAAA==@nc.rr.com>
	<D6E47DEE29084230973734C9E25A8EA3@MiltVostro2010>
Message-ID: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAF0xXac1rOhFkn7GlcEWNIjCgAAAEAAAADQ8EacxVg9Dk5I6apuZa1kBAAAAAA==@nc.rr.com>

Wow!!  That was a HUGE RX antenna project, Milt!! My hat's off to you!! I'm
sure it was worth it!  I and the rest of the DX community surely appreciate
your dedication and your hard work!!

73,
Charlie, K4OTV

-----Original Message-----
From: Milt -- N5IA [mailto:n5ia at zia-connection.com] 
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2014 6:22 PM
To: Charlie; 'Herbert Schoenbohm'; topband at contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: KP1

Her,

Thanks for the photo, and it sure does appear to be a superb location for
the Top Band stations.

Charlie,  It took Robin and I approximately 2 full, long days to deploy the
entire Beverage system at VP6DX.  That is 3 x 2 wire/ 1 WL bi-directional
Beverages, one phased set of bi-directional 2-wire/ 1 WL Beverages,
appropriate band filters, signal splitters, preamps, and remote 8 position
switches.  Then we laid out 3 x 400 Meter feed lines and control line to the
two camps; one set each for the 80 M CW, 75 M SSB, and the 160 M stations. 
Plus a bunch more that takes too much time to tell.

Was it worth it?  YES, YES and YES!!!!!!!!!  All it takes is planning and
commitment.

A number of the unkowning/ not understanding operator members of the VP6DX
team verbally questioned "WHY are those two spending SO MUCH time on those
RX antennas?"  But when it came their turn to operate those stations
equipped with those RX antennas they became believers immediately.  After
one particular night the 160 M station op commented at daybreak while
nursing 'bleeding' ears, "No Beverages, no contacts".  Yet that op put more
than 200 more DX contacts in the 160 M log that night.  Tropical QRN is a
real killer.  You have to go prepared to properly combat it.

Even though the 75 M station was equipped with a full size 4-Square, the
Beverage RX antennas were what made it NOT an alligator.

A properly equipped and deployed RX antenna system for the low band stations
will double or more the quantity of contacts on 160, 80 & 75 Meters over the
nominal 2 week life of a DXpediton.

If they don't have room for Beverages then the terminated loops are a great
2nd choice.  If this DXpedition has permission to install at the lighthouse
location, and if the DXpedition leaders are into the 2 camp install a la
Ducie, Malpelo and Amsterdam, then the helicopter delivered equipment should
make it a snap.

Here's to a good one!!!!!!!!

73 de Milt, N5IA

-----Original Message-----
From: Charlie
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2014 2:50 PM
To: 'Herbert Schoenbohm' ; topband at contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: KP1

I surely agree, Herb! Although, putting up a field of Beverages would be a
lot of work for an expedition! I might opt for a few terminated loops or one
that could be rotated! That's what they used on the FO0AAA expedition a few
years back (a KAZ terminated loop designed by ON4UN) - and it worked very
well!!

I expect it will be lots of fun!!

73,
Charlie, K4OTV



-----Original Message-----
From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Herbert
Schoenbohm
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2014 3:59 PM
To: topband at contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: KP1

Since the landing is planned by chopper the light house would be a great
place to set up the operation.  Sure would be a super place for low band
antennas with Beverages in many directions.  Here is a great pix of the
lighthouse.

http://www.birdlife.org/datazone/userfiles/file/IBAs/CaribCntryPDFs/navassa.
pdf

4765 / Virus Database: 4040/8440 - Release Date: 10/23/14 



-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2014.0.4765 / Virus Database: 4040/8440 - Release Date: 10/23/14


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From Gary at ka1j.com  Thu Oct 23 19:00:05 2014
From: Gary at ka1j.com (Gary Smith)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2014 19:00:05 -0400
Subject: Topband: KP1
In-Reply-To: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAF0xXac1rOhFkn7GlcEWNIjCgAAAEAAAAHzX969vlXFGhPfqlY4j08QBAAAAAA==@nc.rr.com>
References: <if3f1osm6eg43s6oqlnpai4q.1414008635730@email.android.com>,
	<54495E0C.7070909@gmail.com>,
	<!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAF0xXac1rOhFkn7GlcEWNIjCgAAAEAAAAHzX969vlXFGhPfqlY4j08QBAAAAAA==@nc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <54498875.13416.11B2F30@Gary.ka1j.com>

For Rx I heartily suggest the HI-Z units 
as I have the 3 element version and it 
works wonderfully. I'd like to upgrade to 
a 8 element but the 3 element is not 
upgradable. Small footprint, easy assy and 
I find it works great as a separate or 
diversity antenna for up to 10M. It is an 
excellent antenna for a Dxpedetion as it's 
very effective, directional and quick to 
assemble/take down.

73,

Gary
KA1J

> I surely agree, Herb! Although, putting up a field of Beverages would be a
> lot of work for an expedition! I might opt for a few terminated loops or one
> that could be rotated! That's what they used on the FO0AAA expedition a few
> years back (a KAZ terminated loop designed by ON4UN) - and it worked very
> well!!
> 
> I expect it will be lots of fun!!
> 
> 73,
> Charlie, K4OTV
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Herbert
> Schoenbohm
> Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2014 3:59 PM
> To: topband at contesting.com
> Subject: Re: Topband: KP1
> 
> Since the landing is planned by chopper the light house would be a great
> place to set up the operation.  Sure would be a super place for low band
> antennas with Beverages in many directions.  Here is a great pix of the
> lighthouse.
> 
> http://www.birdlife.org/datazone/userfiles/file/IBAs/CaribCntryPDFs/navassa.
> pdf
> 
> 
> Herb Schoenbohm, KV4FZ
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 10/23/2014 1:59 PM, Jorge Diez - CX6VM wrote:
> > will be a USA Fest!
> >
> > if signal is like KV4FZ or PJ2T we have some posibility, but will be 
> > near impossible to break USA pile up with KP1 RX antennas pointing to 
> > the north :-(
> >
> > 73,
> > Jorge
> > CX6VM/CW5W
> >
> > 2014-10-23 15:16 GMT-02:00 Charlie <charlie-cunningham at nc.rr.com>:
> >
> >> Really impressive team going down there!!
> >>
> >> Charlie, K4OTV
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of 
> >> Jim Brown
> >> Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2014 1:13 PM
> >> To: topband at contesting.com
> >> Subject: Re: Topband: KP1
> >>
> >> On 10/23/2014 7:55 AM, GeorgeWallner wrote:
> >>> AA7JV
> >>> KP1-5 Project Team Member
> >> With George on the team, our worries are over!  I expect to work them
> QRP.
> >>
> >> 73, Jim K9YC
> >> _________________
> >> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> >>
> >>
> >> ---
> >> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus 
> >> protection is active.
> >> http://www.avast.com
> >>
> >> _________________
> >> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> >>
> >
> >
> 
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> 
> 
> ---
> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
> http://www.avast.com
> 
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> 




---
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From herbs at vitelcom.net  Thu Oct 23 19:59:17 2014
From: herbs at vitelcom.net (Herbert Schoenbohm)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2014 19:59:17 -0400
Subject: Topband: KP1
In-Reply-To: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAF0xXac1rOhFkn7GlcEWNIjCgAAAEAAAADQ8EacxVg9Dk5I6apuZa1kBAAAAAA==@nc.rr.com>
References: <if3f1osm6eg43s6oqlnpai4q.1414008635730@email.android.com>	<web-34198842@be4.cluster1.echolabs.net>	<54493700.8000700@audiosystemsgroup.com>	<!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAF0xXac1rOhFkn7GlcEWNIjCgAAAEAAAACRh2bZ3ucREiQFgaKXI1XUBAAAAAA==@nc.rr.com>	<CA+h_a7+GqW824v8h7LHCeH=-jj4NoAEi9RbHFMY+tDgVzEm-Yg@mail.gmail.com><54495E0C.7070909@gmail.com>	<!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAF0xXac1rOhFkn7GlcEWNIjCgAAAEAAAAHzX969vlXFGhPfqlY4j08QBAAAAAA==@nc.rr.com>	<D6E47DEE29084230973734C9E25A8EA3@MiltVostro2010>
	<!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAF0xXac1rOhFkn7GlcEWNIjCgAAAEAAAADQ8EacxVg9Dk5I6apuZa1kBAAAAAA==@nc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <54499655.2010606@vitelcom.net>

Sorry I sent the wrong link for the Navassa lighthouse.

This is the best shot I have found so far.

http://www.birdlife.org/datazone/userfiles/file/IBAs/CaribCntryPDFs/navassa.pdf

Herb Schoenbohm, KV4FZ

On 10/23/2014 6:44 PM, Charlie wrote:
> Wow!!  That was a HUGE RX antenna project, Milt!! My hat's off to you!! I'm
> sure it was worth it!  I and the rest of the DX community surely appreciate
> your dedication and your hard work!!
>
> 73,
> Charlie, K4OTV
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Milt -- N5IA [mailto:n5ia at zia-connection.com]
> Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2014 6:22 PM
> To: Charlie; 'Herbert Schoenbohm'; topband at contesting.com
> Subject: Re: Topband: KP1
>
> Her,
>
> Thanks for the photo, and it sure does appear to be a superb location for
> the Top Band stations.
>
> Charlie,  It took Robin and I approximately 2 full, long days to deploy the
> entire Beverage system at VP6DX.  That is 3 x 2 wire/ 1 WL bi-directional
> Beverages, one phased set of bi-directional 2-wire/ 1 WL Beverages,
> appropriate band filters, signal splitters, preamps, and remote 8 position
> switches.  Then we laid out 3 x 400 Meter feed lines and control line to the
> two camps; one set each for the 80 M CW, 75 M SSB, and the 160 M stations.
> Plus a bunch more that takes too much time to tell.
>
> Was it worth it?  YES, YES and YES!!!!!!!!!  All it takes is planning and
> commitment.
>
> A number of the unkowning/ not understanding operator members of the VP6DX
> team verbally questioned "WHY are those two spending SO MUCH time on those
> RX antennas?"  But when it came their turn to operate those stations
> equipped with those RX antennas they became believers immediately.  After
> one particular night the 160 M station op commented at daybreak while
> nursing 'bleeding' ears, "No Beverages, no contacts".  Yet that op put more
> than 200 more DX contacts in the 160 M log that night.  Tropical QRN is a
> real killer.  You have to go prepared to properly combat it.
>
> Even though the 75 M station was equipped with a full size 4-Square, the
> Beverage RX antennas were what made it NOT an alligator.
>
> A properly equipped and deployed RX antenna system for the low band stations
> will double or more the quantity of contacts on 160, 80 & 75 Meters over the
> nominal 2 week life of a DXpediton.
>
> If they don't have room for Beverages then the terminated loops are a great
> 2nd choice.  If this DXpedition has permission to install at the lighthouse
> location, and if the DXpedition leaders are into the 2 camp install a la
> Ducie, Malpelo and Amsterdam, then the helicopter delivered equipment should
> make it a snap.
>
> Here's to a good one!!!!!!!!
>
> 73 de Milt, N5IA
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Charlie
> Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2014 2:50 PM
> To: 'Herbert Schoenbohm' ; topband at contesting.com
> Subject: Re: Topband: KP1
>
> I surely agree, Herb! Although, putting up a field of Beverages would be a
> lot of work for an expedition! I might opt for a few terminated loops or one
> that could be rotated! That's what they used on the FO0AAA expedition a few
> years back (a KAZ terminated loop designed by ON4UN) - and it worked very
> well!!
>
> I expect it will be lots of fun!!
>
> 73,
> Charlie, K4OTV
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Herbert
> Schoenbohm
> Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2014 3:59 PM
> To: topband at contesting.com
> Subject: Re: Topband: KP1
>
> Since the landing is planned by chopper the light house would be a great
> place to set up the operation.  Sure would be a super place for low band
> antennas with Beverages in many directions.  Here is a great pix of the
> lighthouse.
>
> http://www.birdlife.org/datazone/userfiles/file/IBAs/CaribCntryPDFs/navassa.
> pdf
>
> 4765 / Virus Database: 4040/8440 - Release Date: 10/23/14
>
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2014.0.4765 / Virus Database: 4040/8440 - Release Date: 10/23/14
>
>
> ---
> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
> http://www.avast.com
>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


From jjw5257 at yahoo.ca  Thu Oct 23 20:34:47 2014
From: jjw5257 at yahoo.ca (Jeff Wilson)
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2014 00:34:47 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Topband: KP1
Message-ID: <1464259376.198200.1414110887279.JavaMail.yahoo@jws100111.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Thanks for the memories Herb.....I was surprised to see you had the KV4FZ call way back then!
I just dug out my K4IA/KC4 Navassa Island SWL QSL to VE3PE2NL (thanks Popular Electronics!)? from June 24, 1969...20m SSB 0411Z QSO with WA6ROU.? Now finally a chance for a real QSO, and on Top Band!!!? QSL showed a B&W photo of nasty cliff side landing zone.? All Drake RX/TX pairs.? Thankfully it is not in the Indian Ocean!? Can't wait for January....will have to put up the South Beverage, but probably won't need it with this team!? Best Wishes, 73 Jeff VE3CV

From deswynar at xplornet.ca  Thu Oct 23 20:41:31 2014
From: deswynar at xplornet.ca (Eddy Swynar)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2014 20:41:31 -0400
Subject: Topband: KP1
In-Reply-To: <1464259376.198200.1414110887279.JavaMail.yahoo@jws100111.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <1464259376.198200.1414110887279.JavaMail.yahoo@jws100111.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <6F3BA22C-A04F-4563-813C-F46A08CDC19F@xplornet.ca>


On 2014-10-23, at 8:34 PM, Jeff Wilson wrote:

> Thanks for the memories Herb.....I was surprised to see you had the KV4FZ call way back then!
> I just dug out my K4IA/KC4 Navassa Island SWL QSL to VE3PE2NL (thanks Popular Electronics!)  from June 24, 1969...20m SSB 0411Z QSO with WA6ROU.  Now finally a chance for a real QSO, and on Top Band!!!  QSL showed a B&W photo of nasty cliff side landing zone.  All Drake RX/TX pairs.  Thankfully it is not in the Indian Ocean!  Can't wait for January....will have to put up the South Beverage, but probably won't need it with this team!  Best Wishes, 73 Jeff VE3CV
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband





Hi Jeff,

I was VE3PE2RT back in that very same time period...

Thank YOU for the memories...!

~73~ de Eddy VE3CUI - VE3XZ

From garry at ni6t.com  Thu Oct 23 22:35:41 2014
From: garry at ni6t.com (Garry Shapiro)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2014 19:35:41 -0700
Subject: Topband: WATCH OUT !!Did you get a new cable modem from
 Comcast? Arris Modem equal lots of QRM
In-Reply-To: <012d01cfef11$7042c420$50c84c60$@comcast.net>
References: <012d01cfef11$7042c420$50c84c60$@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <5449BAFD.6050101@ni6t.com>

What is the model number of the offending modem?

Garry, NI6T

On 10/23/2014 3:33 PM, JC wrote:
> Hi guys
>
> I would like to share with you what NX4D just found out. Doug has
> experiencing a strong noise on top band for almost a year. He did try to
> find it everywhere, disconnected all appliances in the house and the noise
> was still roaring.
>
> For some coincidence Dug removed the cable from the modem and the noise
> quit. The issue is that the Arris modem has an internal battery to work
> without AC power and when you remove it from the AC line the modem is still
> generating noise and you can come up into a conclusion the modem is clean.
>
> It is not, actually there are  several reports of RFI going on for several
> years and FCC is doing nothing to stop it.
>
> Here another source of information about that modem
>
> http://forums.comcast.com/t5/Voice-Service-and-Equipment/RFI-Caused-by-Arris
> -Modem/td-p/548591
>
> Doug also found many complaints about Cisco Modems too, especially the
> switching supply wall warts.
>
> So watch out  is you have Comcast cable modem, it is necessary to choke the
> cable and the AC cord with FT240 # 31. With this fix ,the noise dropped from
> s8 to s0 but still audible at Doug receiver.
>
> Regards
> JC
> N4IS
>
>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>


From dick.bingham at gmail.com  Fri Oct 24 01:03:59 2014
From: dick.bingham at gmail.com (dick.bingham)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2014 22:03:59 -0700
Subject: Topband: Soldering to Aluminum
Message-ID: <305A30A7-421E-4FCE-BE33-9DB9903E6296@gmail.com>

In the past I have successfully soldered to Aluminum using regular solder. 

Initially, I scrubbed the aluminum surface to expose un-oxidized metal and then covered it with OIL to prevent exposure to air and re-oxidation of the surface. Then use a high wattage soldering and scrub the surface below the oil while scooting around a melted puddle of solder. 

Eventually the aluminum surface will become "tinned" and you can then solder to the blob.
12-months exposure to weather in a coastal environment showed no signs of corrosion.

Dick/w7wkr CN98pi

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 



From jim at audiosystemsgroup.com  Fri Oct 24 01:26:04 2014
From: jim at audiosystemsgroup.com (Jim Brown)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2014 22:26:04 -0700
Subject: Topband: WATCH OUT !!Did you get a new cable modem from
 Comcast? Arris Modem equal lots of QRM
In-Reply-To: <012d01cfef11$7042c420$50c84c60$@comcast.net>
References: <012d01cfef11$7042c420$50c84c60$@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <5449E2EC.8070303@audiosystemsgroup.com>

On 10/23/2014 3:33 PM, JC wrote:
> So watch out  is you have Comcast cable modem, it is necessary to choke the
> cable and the AC cord with FT240 # 31. With this fix ,the noise dropped from
> s8 to s0 but still audible at Doug receiver.

By now this should be "Ham Radio 101"  -- that is, assume that 
EVERYTHING with a digital clock, and EVERY switching power supply is a 
noise source, and be prepared to choke them using my RFI tutorial as a 
starting point. It's also a VERY good move to replace all switching 
power supplies with a linear supply, or even a linear supply float 
charging a battery. I'm doing exactly that with cable modem, WiFi 
Router, CATV box, Internet "radio," etc. In most cities, it's possible 
to find linear wall warts at second hand stores for a buck or less, and 
I also buy them at ham flea markets.

And all the gear in my shack (except for computers and power amp), run 
off my small solar system.

73, Jim K9YC

From nhp at ieee.org  Fri Oct 24 11:36:33 2014
From: nhp at ieee.org (Nick Hall-Patch)
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2014 15:36:33 +0000
Subject: Topband: WATCH OUT !!Did you get a new cable modem from
 Comcast? Arris Modem equal lots of QRM
Message-ID: <20141024153636.B315AAC9F37@mx.contesting.com>

Jameco continues to sell linear wall warts, if you want them new.

best wishes,

Nick
VE7DXR

At 05:26 24-10-14, you wrote:
>On 10/23/2014 3:33 PM, JC wrote:
>>So watch out  is you have Comcast cable modem, it is necessary to choke the
>>cable and the AC cord with FT240 # 31. With this fix ,the noise dropped from
>>s8 to s0 but still audible at Doug receiver.
>
>By now this should be "Ham Radio 101"  -- that is, assume that 
>EVERYTHING with a digital clock, and EVERY switching power supply is 
>a noise source, and be prepared to choke them using my RFI tutorial 
>as a starting point. It's also a VERY good move to replace all 
>switching power supplies with a linear supply, or even a linear 
>supply float charging a battery. I'm doing exactly that with cable 
>modem, WiFi Router, CATV box, Internet "radio," etc. In most cities, 
>it's possible to find linear wall warts at second hand stores for a 
>buck or less, and I also buy them at ham flea markets.
>
>And all the gear in my shack (except for computers and power amp), 
>run off my small solar system.
>
>73, Jim K9YC
>_________________
>Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband



From n0jk at hotmail.com  Fri Oct 24 13:40:15 2014
From: n0jk at hotmail.com (jon jones)
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2014 17:40:15 +0000
Subject: Topband: KP1
In-Reply-To: <mailman.23.1414166416.23683.topband@contesting.com>
References: <mailman.23.1414166416.23683.topband@contesting.com>
Message-ID: <BLU175-W137F2AF292EADE95A854FC90930@phx.gbl>

Thanks Herb for the note and memories.
 
I found my KC4DX card. Worked on 20M back in 1972 when I just had received general class privileges. At the time I had no idea I had worked
a "rare one." I used the Heath SB-401/SB-300 and a Hy-Gain vertical. KC4DX's main radio was the Swan 500C radio. Wayne Green, W2NSD/1 was one
of the ops.  Yes, the Wayne Green.
 
More info. about KC4DX here.  http://kc4dx.com/
 
Looking forward to working KP1 on the Top Band.
 
 - Jon N0JK
 

> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2014 00:34:47 +0000 (UTC)
> From: Jeff Wilson <jjw5257 at yahoo.ca>
> To: "topband at contesting.com" <topband at contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: Topband: KP1
> Message-ID:
> 	<1464259376.198200.1414110887279.JavaMail.yahoo at jws100111.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
> 	
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> 
> Thanks for the memories Herb.....I was surprised to see you had the KV4FZ call way back then!
> I just dug out my K4IA/KC4 Navassa Island SWL QSL to VE3PE2NL (thanks Popular Electronics!)? from June 24, 1969...20m SSB 0411Z QSO with WA6ROU.? Now finally a chance for a real QSO, and on Top Band!!!? QSL showed a B&W photo of nasty cliff side landing zone.? All Drake RX/TX pairs.? Thankfully it is not in the Indian Ocean!? Can't wait for January....will have to put up the South Beverage, but probably won't need it with this team!? Best Wishes, 73 Jeff VE3CV
> 		 	   		  

From wd8dsb at gmail.com  Fri Oct 24 14:40:32 2014
From: wd8dsb at gmail.com (Don Kirk)
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2014 14:40:32 -0400
Subject: Topband: Boradband noise on 160 meters tracked down to apartment
	complex
Message-ID: <CAKtW65dmLUBe3HF6FuN=9zjmr5FWEjVJygyLZGJS2mneBO8Hiw@mail.gmail.com>

Recently noticed an increase in my noise level on 160 meters (in the
direction of my 300 degree pointed pennant), and about 3 weeks ago I
tracked it down to a new apartment complex which is located 0.41 miles
away.  Today I noticed that the signal had a repeating pattern of
approximately 30 minutes on and 5 minutes off when listening at my house,
so I jumped in the car and drove over to the apartment complex to make sure
the signal at the apartment complex had the same repeating pattern and was
in time sync with the noise at my house.  Thankfully it was, and I made
recordings at the apartment complex today showing I could predict when the
signal would go off and come back on based on the time pattern I was
following at my house.

I have created a website documenting my direction finding activities for
this broadband RFI case, and uploaded my prediction recording today.  Here
is the link to my simple website that documents this case :
http://sites.google.com/site/broadbandrfi/

I contacted the apartment complex today notifying them that I was now 100%
confident that the broadband noise was originating from their building, and
will now work with their management to locate the exact source so they can
follow up with the manufacturer of the equipment for resolution.  Based on
what I have heard so far it sounds like a motor (probably a variable speed
motor controller), but that's just a guess at this time (sounds like it's
winding up in speed when it first comes on and you can hear this on the
recording I made at the apartment complex today).

Just FYI, and another very interesting one to track down.

73,
Don Kirk (wd8dsb)

From billw at waveform.net  Fri Oct 24 15:15:23 2014
From: billw at waveform.net (Bill Wichers)
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2014 19:15:23 +0000
Subject: Topband: Boradband noise on 160 meters tracked down to
 apartment	complex
In-Reply-To: <CAKtW65dmLUBe3HF6FuN=9zjmr5FWEjVJygyLZGJS2mneBO8Hiw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKtW65dmLUBe3HF6FuN=9zjmr5FWEjVJygyLZGJS2mneBO8Hiw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4897906C085783429A2F4B39EBFF44F06C9A8988@Server-01.WaveformTechnology.local>

Just a helpful tidbit for anyone working with motor controllers / drives / VFDs / frequency drives / etc. (lots of names for the things :-):
The manufacturers usually specify that the wiring between the VFD and the motor be in conduit. This is to help with EMI/RFI issues. There is usually also a relatively short maximum reach specified (20-50 feet or so). Obviously they mean *metal* conduit for shielding, but I've seen electricians use plastic conduit -- especially for flexible applications -- before.

The flexible conduit is commonly known as "Sealtite" in the trades even though that is just one manufacturer of the stuff. It's normally a flexible metal conduit with a plastic outer jacket. There is also an all-plastic version of the stuff. You can tell them apart by the look and feel once you've seen both, but another way is that the jacket markings on the "metal inside plastic" kind will say something about needing to use a separate grounding wire if the circuit is more than some number of amps. The all-plastic kind will not have that marking. The reason for the marking is that the steel part of the conduit is thin and usually can't be a suitable ground connection for safety purposes for more than 20-30 amps or so.

There is also the usual flexible metal conduit (usually known as greenfield, or "MC cable" (for "Metal Clad" cable) if it has factory installed wires) which has a spiral metal outer "jacket" that is conductive.

If your noise source ends up being some kind of motor drive, I'd check to make sure the wiring between the drive and the motor are in some kind of metal conduit. It's an easy thing to look for and might also be the cause of the problem.

  -Bill


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of
> Don Kirk
> Sent: Friday, October 24, 2014 2:41 PM
> To: topband
> Subject: Topband: Boradband noise on 160 meters tracked down to
> apartment complex
> 
> Recently noticed an increase in my noise level on 160 meters (in the direction
> of my 300 degree pointed pennant), and about 3 weeks ago I tracked it down
> to a new apartment complex which is located 0.41 miles away.  Today I
> noticed that the signal had a repeating pattern of approximately 30 minutes
> on and 5 minutes off when listening at my house, so I jumped in the car and
> drove over to the apartment complex to make sure the signal at the
> apartment complex had the same repeating pattern and was in time sync
> with the noise at my house.  Thankfully it was, and I made recordings at the
> apartment complex today showing I could predict when the signal would go
> off and come back on based on the time pattern I was following at my house.
> 
> I have created a website documenting my direction finding activities for this
> broadband RFI case, and uploaded my prediction recording today.  Here is
> the link to my simple website that documents this case :
> http://sites.google.com/site/broadbandrfi/
> 
> I contacted the apartment complex today notifying them that I was now
> 100% confident that the broadband noise was originating from their building,
> and will now work with their management to locate the exact source so they
> can follow up with the manufacturer of the equipment for resolution.  Based
> on what I have heard so far it sounds like a motor (probably a variable speed
> motor controller), but that's just a guess at this time (sounds like it's winding
> up in speed when it first comes on and you can hear this on the recording I
> made at the apartment complex today).
> 
> Just FYI, and another very interesting one to track down.
> 
> 73,
> Don Kirk (wd8dsb)
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

From topband at contesting.com  Fri Oct 24 18:07:53 2014
From: topband at contesting.com (N7DF via Topband)
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2014 15:07:53 -0700
Subject: Topband: just in time for CQWW
Message-ID: <1414188473.24394.YahooMailNeo@web162805.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

At 2200Z an X6 class solar flare erupted directly in line with the earth.  Major disruption of radio propagation can be expected for the next 6 to 10 hours according to NASA.  If a CME results further effects may become effective during the next several days.  Check spaceweather.com for developing information.

From topband at contesting.com  Fri Oct 24 18:14:26 2014
From: topband at contesting.com (N7DF via Topband)
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2014 15:14:26 -0700
Subject: Topband: instant update on solar flare
Message-ID: <1414188866.69459.YahooMailNeo@web162805.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

at 2210z the intensity of the flare was downgraded to an x1.9  still pretty bad for ionosphere though and the possibility of further flaring within the next 24 hours is listed as around 40%

From jim.gmforum at gmail.com  Sat Oct 25 06:39:40 2014
From: jim.gmforum at gmail.com (Jim GM)
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2014 05:39:40 -0500
Subject: Topband: Pre-Stew
Message-ID: <CAD+2GysKMCH+JM58mMHuA0OE0iHhhrvRroi=yqUw4nCV-h9V3g@mail.gmail.com>

Any one hear me calling CQ  or called me and I did not come back to you?

I was running QRP with a KX3, and using my transmit antenna for receive. I
worked VP5 and KV4 for DX and may other stations.  I operated the full 14
hours. with 3 breaks in the 24 hour period.  The band here has a 10 to 12db
QSB and it was a slow fade so you had to wait for certain stations to get
louder so I could work them.  I had a nice time.

I had a problem I got the shivers  when I went to bed.  Teeth chattered.
Most likely cause I was up 24 hours. Drank water during the contest. Whats
the preventative for this not to happen.  Maybe it is my age of 61 thats
part of the problem. Just cannot take contests any more.

-- 
Jim K9TF

From w8ji at w8ji.com  Sat Oct 25 07:18:59 2014
From: w8ji at w8ji.com (Tom W8JI)
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2014 07:18:59 -0400
Subject: Topband: WATCH OUT !!Did you get a new cable modem from
	Comcast? Arris Modem equal lots of QRM
References: <20141024153636.B315AAC9F37@mx.contesting.com>
Message-ID: <9D793FACC0974821A19C90C6CE550D15@MAIN>

All of this centers around one thing, at lower frequencies devices that 
generate noise need "antennas" to cause problems. The cures will all prevent 
the devices from effective "antennas".

The original post contained information about an unusual thing we should 
keep in mind, that some devices have battery power. When the mains were 
turned off remotely, the battery took over. Since the device was not 
disconnected from the "antenna", the radiation was not altered. Had it been 
unplugged, even with the battery, the noise would have either greatly 
dropped or disappeared.

This should serve as a warning to NOT just depend on flipping breakers off 
to find noise. There is no assurance removing power will alter noise, 
because some devices run without line power. Radiating devices all change 
significantly when the radiating "antenna" or  "loop path" is opened (or 
shorted), but not always when mains power is removed.

Outside of new equipment I design or special situation, I virtually never 
use chokes and beads. From an engineering standpoint a series choke system 
is actually an unpredictable solution. I tend to avoid unplanned "throw 
something at it" cures.

My first step is **always** to close the loop. I buy a cheap TV/power outlet 
surge protector outlet, and I run every cable and wire in a local equipment 
cluster through that point. I make sure the line strip has suitable bypass 
capacitors that are across the line, and from neutral to ground. I make sure 
the coaxial line shield is bypassed to the common ground point.

This does several very important things, including things beads cannot do:

1.) It closes the loop for lightning and surge ingress into the system. Most 
lightning damage is common mode stuff that loops through gear, like into the 
cable port via the shield, through equipment, and out the power line. The 
external common point, even without a ground, keeps most of the unwanted 
current out of the equipment.

2.) RF from our transmitters follows the same path. Instead of going through 
the gear, the RF is "shorted" and bypassed around the gear. The sensitive 
equipment is not in the loop.

3.) RF inside any device cannot drive the power lines and other cables in 
"push pull". This is exactly what a bead does, but better. Instead of adding 
a series impedance via a choke and depending on the ratio of the newly added 
series impedance being very high compared to the outside world impedance, 
this method "shorts out" the outside world path for RF.

Human focus tends to mindlessly follow the herd of sheep. Since soft iron 
cores began, and the first TV deflection yokes were split apart to wind 
power cords around, we have focused on throwing beads at systems. We have 
not considered the path is two modes, and we have not considered how a bead 
actually works.

The primary problem paths are either differential between conductors in one 
cord or cable, differential between two cables, or a mixture of the two.

A bead or choke does nothing for differential on a given cable or cord. It 
does very little for lightning. Its effectiveness is also highly dependent 
on the differential impedance between inlet and outlet at the insertion 
point.

A bypassing arrangement greatly reduces differential excitation of the power 
feed, something the choke does not do at all. A bypassing arrangement also 
greatly reduces differential excitation of the mains against other cables. 
It is generally far more effective than a choke for suppression, because 
external leads almost always have modest to high differential impedance.

I can often do, with just a simple piece of hookup wire, a better job than a 
choke.  I cured an apartment complex from severe RFI that Buckeye Cable had 
given up on mostly with wire. Buckeye used chokes, filters, double and 
triple shielded cables, and were generally just marginally successful. I 
fixed almost all of it with simple jumpers. Just a few apartments out of 
hundreds needed anything more. I'd guess they invested many thousands of 
dollars, and the nearly perfect fix really just cost a few dollars per 
building.  :)

73 Tom 


From VE7SL at shaw.ca  Wed Oct 29 13:36:45 2014
From: VE7SL at shaw.ca (Steve)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2014 10:36:45 -0700
Subject: Topband: 630m Crossband Evening
In-Reply-To: <1414188473.24394.YahooMailNeo@web162805.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <1414188473.24394.YahooMailNeo@web162805.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5978CCAC52514008AA68A94EC85DFAAA@StevePC>

I know that many topband operators are interested in and are following the 
activity on the 630m band (472 - 479kHz) as agencies work towards this 
becoming a ham band in the U.S....some of you are even transmitting using an 
experimental licence. All Canadian amateurs gained access to the new band in 
May of this year.

This coming weekend, a 630m Activity Night will see many experimental 
stations on the air, including some of the old Maritime CW stations. As 
well, on Friday night only, three Canadian stations...VE7SL, VE7BDQ and 
VO1NA will be operating in the 'crossband mode', transmitting on 630m CW and 
listening for CW replies on designated HF frequencies. Hopefully many of you 
will take a look for us during our scheduled operating times and if hearing 
us, would give a call on HF....we would love to work as many as possible 
during the Friday night event. All three stations will be running the 
maximum erp and with the improved propagation conditions of fall, hope to be 
workable throughout many call areas in Canada and the USA.

For the finer details of times and frequencies of the crossbander operation, 
as well as a link to the ARRL's news description, please see:

http://ve7sl.blogspot.ca/2014/10/630m-crossband-activity-night-reminder.html


You shouldn't need a fancy antenna to just listen on 630m but you will need 
to be able to switch between listening on 630m and then transmitting on HF, 
perhaps using two different antennas to make it easier...or maybe just A/B 
switching your antenna selection manually.  We hope to hear many of you 
calling on Friday evening!

73  Steve / VE7SL



WEB - "The VE7SL Radio Notebook":  http://members.shaw.ca/ve7sl

VE7SL BLOG - "Homebrewing and Operating Adventures From 2200m to Nanowaves": 
http://ve7sl.blogspot.ca/ 


From cwopr at embarqmail.com  Wed Oct 29 15:24:54 2014
From: cwopr at embarqmail.com (Bill Stewart)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2014 15:24:54 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Topband: Mini Night of Nights! - MRHS Newsletter No. 49
In-Reply-To: <1134894271.11112392.1414609373682.JavaMail.root@embarqmail.com>
Message-ID: <1705876643.11143027.1414610694361.JavaMail.root@embarqmail.com>

Tnx to Steve, VE7SL, for his info. 
Here is more info on the Maritime Radio Historical Society part in the event. 
Looks like lots of good activity going on around 500kc & below this weekend. 

"> Mini Night of Nights 1 November - MF Madness! 


In Newsletter No. 47 we announced our Mini Night of Nights event to take place on the evening of 1 November (Pacific time). We're happy to report that those plans are still on and that members of the Transmitter and Operations Departments have stepped up to assure that KSM (and K6KPH) will be standing tall. Plus Bill Ruck has offered to feed the staff with his famous radioman's hash (not made from real radiomen we hope) and Chief Operator Dillman will be supplying an example of his "my o my" key lime pie. We may have to use large pointed sticks to prod the operations staff out of the kitchen and back to their operating positions. Ruck, being "Morse challenged" as he puts it, will not receive such treatment. 


What's the idea behind this event? Well, we know it's tough for many folks to copy the MF signals of KSM during our normal daytime (Pacific time) operations. We've often thought about a Mini Night of Nights during the winter that would continue into the evening hours and emphasize MF operations. 


The propagation of our HF signals will be different too, so listeners beyond MF range may be able to copy us at locations where we are not heard during the day. 

How late will we stay on? That's hard to say since it will largely depend on the sleep inducing qualities of the excellent meal provided by Ruck. But on the regular Night of Nights events we usually run out of steam at about 9:30 or 10:00pm Pacific time so it'll probably be similar for M NoN." 

Here is more info from the MRHS: 

http://campaign.r20.constantcontact.com/render?ca=f43260f5-a7f9-4084-9304-9637ee630b59&c=87e94620-790b-11e3-93dd-d4ae5292c4bc&ch=88dd6a20-790b-11e3-9409-d4ae5292c4bc 

73 de Bill K4JYS