Topband: radial wire size

Wed Apr 15 14:37:26 EDT 2015

Ladder line constructed from barbed wire, could be the best thing in ham
radio since the G5RV.

Art

On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 2:26 PM, Jorge Diez - CX6VM <cx6vm.jorge at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Really?  They are selling that?  I can find tons of this, let me know if
> someone interested hi hi hi
>
> -----Mensaje original-----
> De: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces at contesting.com] En nombre de Herbert
> Schoenbohm
> Enviado el: miércoles, 15 de abril de 2015 03:07 p.m.
> Para: topband at contesting.com
> Asunto: Re: Topband: radial wire size
>
> I just saw on eBay a 3' piece of barbed wire dated 1878 for sale for
> $9.78 which comes up to $3.26 per foot!  I guess this stuff gets more
> valuable with age like some good Uruguayan wine.?
>
>
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Antique-3-foot-piece-of-Barbed-Wire-Barb-Wire-Barbwire-Bobbed-Old-/121567131845?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c4df738c5
>
>
> Herb, KV4FZ
>
> On 4/15/2015 1:47 PM, Jorge Diez - CX6VM wrote:
> > Hi Herb
> >
> > Local price:
> >
> > #17 $16,65 per 100 mts (328ft)
> > #14 $30,32 per 100 mts (328ft)
> >
> > Not problem with thief actually at the farm, but will be very bad if
> > after 2 years the radials "disappear" because of the corrosion
> >
> > 73,
> > Jorge
> >
> >
> > -----Mensaje original-----
> > De: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces at contesting.com] En nombre de
> > Herbert Schoenbohm Enviado el: mi rcoles, 15 de abril de 2015 01:06
> > p.m.
> > Para: topband at contesting.com
> > Asunto: Re: Topband: radial wire size
> >
> >   From Home Depot
> >
> >
> >
> > $64.98 / roll
> > FARMGARD 1320 ft. 12-1/2 Gauge 2-Point Class I Barbed Wire
> > <http://www.homedepot.com/p/FARMGARD-1320-ft-12-1-2-Gauge-2-Point-Clas
> > s-I-Ba
> > rbed-Wire-317821A/202025609>
> >
> >
> > Model # 317821A
> >
> >
> >
> > On 4/15/2015 11:53 AM, Herbert Schoenbohm wrote:
> >> In AM broadcast installations the use of buried copper wire (bare)
> >> smaller than #10 is considered unacceptable.  Here in the Caribbean
> >> cooper thieves have found radios stations a good source for black
> >> market copper wire and some stations replace thier systems with
> >> barbed wire which is harder to steal but very difficult to install.
> >> Depending upon the soil the ability to last more than a few years he
> >> use of such a solution is very questionable.
> >>
> >>
> >> Herb Schoenbohm, KV4FZ
> >>
> >> On 4/15/2015 11:43 AM, donovanf at starpower.net wrote:
> >>> Hi Jorge,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Bill is almost correct, in most soils mechanical durability is the
> >>> only consideration for long term durability of copper wire, but out
> >>> of sight out of mind can be a big problem for radial systems in at
> >>> least two cases.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Galvanic corrosion will damage a buried radial system i f small (or
> >>> large!)
> >>> electrical currents flow from the shield of your coaxial cable into
> >>> your radial system. Of course, small diameter wire will fail more
> >>> quickly than heavier wire. This is not a trivial consideration
> >>> because in many installations the buried radial system has
> >>> significantly lower ground resistance than any other ground in your
> >>> home or in your station. You can determine if this is a problem in
> >>> your installation by using a milliammeter (or a common VOM) to check
> >>> for shield current.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Corrosive soils may damage a buried radial system. Fortunately most
> >>> soils are not corrosive for copper but there are important
> >>> exceptions, some examples are:
> >>> - soils with large quantities of organic matter,
> >>> - poorly drained soils such as wetlands,
> >>> - soils with a history of heavy agricultural use with farm animals
> >>> or fertilizers
> >>> - soils containing materials such as cinders or cinder blocks.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> 73
> >>> Frank
> >>> W3LPL
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>
> >>> From: "Bill Wichers" <billw at waveform.net>
> >>> To: "Jorge Diez - CX6VM" <cx6vm.jorge at gmail.com>, "topband"
> >>> <topband at contesting.com>
> >>> Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2015 2:27:01 PM
> >>> Subject: Re: Topband: radial wire size
> >>>
> >>> The only real difference when using reasonable-gauge sizes is in
> >>> physical durability. Electrically it makes little difference since
> >>> you effectively have a large number of radials in parallel so each
> >>> one carries only a relatively small percentage of the overall
> >>> current in the system.
> >>>
> >>> I use 18 gauge bare solid copper on my radials. I use that size
> >>> since I consider it a practical minimum in terms of physical
> >>> durability and I can get it for around $50/thousand feet from my
> >>> supplier (although they have a 5,000 foot minimum order). I've had
> >>> some 60+ radials in place for about 4-5 years without any problems.
> >>> Once the copper turns a dull-brown color after the first season it's
> >>> almost impossible to see on the ground.
> >>>
> >>> A lot of people use 14 gauge since that's a commonly available size
> >>> for building wire in the US. It's easy to get through "regular"
> >>> (hardware store) channels and it's strong. There isn't really any
> >>> electrical advantage to the heavier wire -- you won't notice any
> >>> difference in performance.
> >>>
> >>> I think you'll be fine with the #17 wire you have access to. Save
> >>> the money on the smaller radial wire and spend it somewhere else
> >>> where it will make more difference in your overall antenna system.
> >>>
> >>> -Bill
> >>>
> >>>> Hello
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Thinking in a 4 SQ, buried radials, 60 or more on each vertical
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> What is the difference in performance between installing radial
> >>>> wire size
> >>>> #14 (2.08 mm2) or #17 (1.04 mm2) ?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> #14 is the size that DXE sell, so I think is a good size for
> >>>> radials. But what about #17?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> In $$$ is the half J, so want to know what I am loosing in
> >>>> performance, if any
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks in advance
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> 73,
> >>>>
> >>>> Jorge
> >>>>
> >>>> CX6VM/CW5W
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
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