From Carl.Braun at lairdtech.com  Tue Dec  1 07:41:17 2015
From: Carl.Braun at lairdtech.com (Carl Braun)
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2015 12:41:17 +0000
Subject: Topband: 1/2 wl verticals and spaving
In-Reply-To: <565B4B8C.1020900@karlquist.com>
References: <F69DC02DDFCD7A4E84A9C7BE874B774001FC07A5AD@USDC01MBX01.corp.lairdtech.com>
	<565B4B8C.1020900@karlquist.com>
Message-ID: <F69DC02DDFCD7A4E84A9C7BE874B774001FC07BAE6@USDC01MBX01.corp.lairdtech.com>

Rick

Thanks for the reply.  

I'm glad to hear that it's that simple.  I used the same principle when the verticals were dedicated to 40M and were 1/4wl tall where I fed them with 3/4wl and 5/4wl coaxial runs.  The gain and side nulls were impressive.

I will invest in some coax and let you know how things develop.

Thanks again

Carl AG6X

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard (Rick) Karlquist [mailto:richard at karlquist.com] 
Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2015 11:02 AM
To: Carl Braun; topband at contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: 1/2 wl verticals and spaving

On 11/28/2015 6:23 AM, Carl Braun wrote:

> Any suggestions or websites available on ? wl spacing and ? wl radiators?
>
> Carl AG6X
>

I did some modeling of this a long time ago.  Basically, the issue is that if you feed the 1/2 wave verticals at the base, you need to have a *voltage* forcing feed, rather than the usual current forcing feed used for 1/4 wave verticals.
This is tough to do if you need a 90 degree phase shift as in a 4 square.  However, you are in luck because you only need a 0 degree or 180 degree phase shift.  As long as your array is physically symmetrical, any symmetrical feed network will give the right phasing.  I suggest a simple T junction (in coax) with 1/2 wave lines to the verticals.
Make one of them 3/2 wave for 180 degree phasing.
The impedance at this point may be too high for an off the shelf transmatch, so you might have to roll your own.

Rick N6RK

From pa5mw at home.nl  Tue Dec  1 07:55:57 2015
From: pa5mw at home.nl (Mark van Wijk)
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2015 13:55:57 +0100 (CET)
Subject: Topband: Diversity-capable transceivers
In-Reply-To: <73ABFE91-EF2B-41BA-8B15-AB0AF6098D93@cableone.net>
References: <CAFmfzDst67F5EvXNB==p5Kg41S2EeOZRxuE3QWS0P9kYrx4J4Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFmfzDus3hsAJFup6vZkL_+hNLsPWw_-yc4zjNdpZLmgh-+poQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<51CEEAE810D540F5A7E96915180B95E2@MAIN>
	<CAFmfzDv-SprBee3gs4XKhXjo79q5D_COmxsitd2V3HB6myEnJg@mail.gmail.com>
	<73ABFE91-EF2B-41BA-8B15-AB0AF6098D93@cableone.net>
Message-ID: <1227096823.3536439.1448974557820.JavaMail.open-xchange@oxbe7.tb.mail.iss.local>

Ditto here....

 So now what?

 - Buy a K3S +optional 2nd RX?
 - Or......add a 'second' R4C (+Sherwood mods) to my shack and lock them?
 ?
 73 Mark, PA5MW

> Op 1 december 2015 om 2:18 schreef Cecil Acuff <chacuff at cableone.net>:
> 
> 
> Yup...wish I could find an RX-366 to upgrade my OII...
> 
> Production was short...
> 
> Cecil
> K5DL

From w8ji at w8ji.com  Tue Dec  1 08:30:39 2015
From: w8ji at w8ji.com (Tom W8JI)
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2015 08:30:39 -0500
Subject: Topband: 1/2 wl verticals and spaving
References: <F69DC02DDFCD7A4E84A9C7BE874B774001FC07A5AD@USDC01MBX01.corp.lairdtech.com><565B4B8C.1020900@karlquist.com>
	<F69DC02DDFCD7A4E84A9C7BE874B774001FC07BAE6@USDC01MBX01.corp.lairdtech.com>
Message-ID: <93E96CD0B705442D913617C05A21CD72@MAIN>

I'm glad to hear that it's that simple.  I used the same principle when the 
verticals were dedicated to 40M and were 1/4wl tall where I fed them with 
3/4wl and 5/4wl coaxial runs.  The gain and side nulls were impressive.>>>

Carl,

This is real simple to handle.

With a 1/4 wave or odd 1/4 feed to a current-fed vertical, the feedline 
needs equal voltages at the phasing unit to force equal currents. If it was 
a 1/2 wave feeder, it would require equal currents.

With a voltage fed antenna and a 1/4 wave feeder to the phasing unit, it 
would require equal currents at the phasing unit. If you make the feeder to 
each vertical 1/2 wave long, then it takes equal voltages at the phasing 
unit just like a normal current fed does with 1/4 wave feeder.

The issue with this is transmission line properties in the matching system 
at the vertical can upset what you think is the transmission line length.

With the 1/2 wave wide spacing you really only have the choice of in or out 
of phase for any pattern with deep nulls, so none of this really matters. 
Each element would have the same impedance.  If you had a unidirectional 
pattern it would matter.  I probably would just run a catenary line between 
the towers and drop a pair of wire elements for 40. If the verticals would 
support that, then you could get a unidirectional end fire pattern with 40M 
elements.

At 1/2 wave spacing, you are kind of stuck with limited patterns with very 
modest gain and no unidirectional pattern. 


From ve3zi at yahoo.com  Tue Dec  1 11:06:43 2015
From: ve3zi at yahoo.com (Roger Parsons)
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2015 16:06:43 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Topband: Diversity-capable transceivers
References: <1221862532.12355672.1448986003962.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1221862532.12355672.1448986003962.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

I am using the IC7800 as a diversity receiving system on 160m and it is excellent. Both receivers are identical and are locked to the same Master Oscillator. I have been unable to detect any phase drift either with frequency or time. 


I was surprised to read a comment that it has poor receivers as all the reports that I have seen (and my personal experience) have shown it to be superior to just about anything other than the K3S (in some respects) and the IC7850/7851. The Main=Sub command only occurs as the button is pressed, so I have built a litle box which updates via the CI-V bus with any change of frequency (firmware by VE3RX).

I wasted a bit of good contesting time this past weekend listening to European stations having often identical SNRs on two separate and physically separated staggered Beverage systems, but sometimes fading between the two, and always enhancing readability on weak signals.

73 Roger
VE3ZI

From nn4t at comcast.net  Tue Dec  1 11:32:03 2015
From: nn4t at comcast.net (Steven R Daniel, D.D.S.)
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2015 10:32:03 -0600
Subject: Topband: Tracking entities
Message-ID: <005601d12c55$d01822a0$704867e0$@comcast.net>

Good morning. I am searching for the most efficient way to monitor the
activity of the countries I still need on 160 (other bands also). Currently
I am going to DX Summit, putting on the 160 filter and searching for the
prefix of the countries I still need. I then print the results, if any are
found. Effective but time consuming. Is there a program out there which can
sort data, such as that from DX Summit, by band and prefix, and create a
spread sheet for the past 30 days (that is the limit of Summit) showing
calls and times of activity for those stations? Any suggestions are most
welcome! Best, Steve, NN4T


From Robert.Chortek at berliner.com  Tue Dec  1 11:58:37 2015
From: Robert.Chortek at berliner.com (Chortek, Robert L)
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2015 16:58:37 +0000
Subject: Topband: Diversity-capable transceivers
In-Reply-To: <1221862532.12355672.1448986003962.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1221862532.12355672.1448986003962.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com>,
	<1221862532.12355672.1448986003962.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <DM2PR0401MB1149047B4AE4BB8FAEE02C9AE20F0@DM2PR0401MB1149.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>


Hi Roger,

You might have been referring to my comment, which was not intended to say the 7800 has a "poor" receiver.   

However, I had a 7800 for 6 or 7 years (and loved it).  I then purchased a 990, which I had side by side with the 7800 for several months. I can tell you from personal experience, from many hours of A/B testing, that the main receiver in the 990 is significantly superior to that of the 7800 when it comes to handling strong adjacent signals.   That does not mean the 7800 has a "poor" receiver, only that the main rx in the 990 is better - at least based on my experience.   

The scope of the 990 is also much improved over the 7800 because the signals shown on the 990 are "nails" compared to the "blobs" on the 7800 compared to the "needles" on the P3 which is the best. 

This is to be expected and hoped for, as older radios are replaced with newer radios with more advanced technology and improved engineering.  

Nothing beats the ergonomics of the 7800/51 which are the best on the market, IMHO.

None of my comments really answer the question of diversity, which I do not use so my comments are a bit off topic....

73,

Bob/AA6VB
________________________________________
From: Topband <topband-bounces at contesting.com> on behalf of Roger Parsons via Topband <topband at contesting.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 1, 2015 8:06 AM
To: Topband Mailing List
Subject: Re: Topband: Diversity-capable transceivers

I am using the IC7800 as a diversity receiving system on 160m and it is excellent. Both receivers are identical and are locked to the same Master Oscillator. I have been unable to detect any phase drift either with frequency or time.


I was surprised to read a comment that it has poor receivers as all the reports that I have seen (and my personal experience) have shown it to be superior to just about anything other than the K3S (in some respects) and the IC7850/7851. The Main=Sub command only occurs as the button is pressed, so I have built a litle box which updates via the CI-V bus with any change of frequency (firmware by VE3RX).

I wasted a bit of good contesting time this past weekend listening to European stations having often identical SNRs on two separate and physically separated staggered Beverage systems, but sometimes fading between the two, and always enhancing readability on weak signals.

73 Roger
VE3ZI
_________________
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

From galicic at comcast.net  Tue Dec  1 21:07:21 2015
From: galicic at comcast.net (Joe Galicic)
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2015 02:07:21 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Topband: Tracking entities
In-Reply-To: <005601d12c55$d01822a0$704867e0$@comcast.net>
References: <005601d12c55$d01822a0$704867e0$@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <1483096761.15823662.1449022041867.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net>

Steve. DX Lab Suite will do that for you. It keeps a local copy of the spot database that you can query and generate reports from. It will do many other things too. Very good program. http://www.dxlabsuite.com/ -Joe N3HEE 

----- Original Message -----

From: "Steven R Daniel, D.D.S." <nn4t at comcast.net> 
To: topband at contesting.com 
Sent: Tuesday, December 1, 2015 11:32:03 AM 
Subject: Topband: Tracking entities 

Good morning. I am searching for the most efficient way to monitor the 
activity of the countries I still need on 160 (other bands also). Currently 
I am going to DX Summit, putting on the 160 filter and searching for the 
prefix of the countries I still need. I then print the results, if any are 
found. Effective but time consuming. Is there a program out there which can 
sort data, such as that from DX Summit, by band and prefix, and create a 
spread sheet for the past 30 days (that is the limit of Summit) showing 
calls and times of activity for those stations? Any suggestions are most 
welcome! Best, Steve, NN4T 

_________________ 
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband 


From nc3z at outlook.com  Tue Dec  1 22:00:38 2015
From: nc3z at outlook.com (NC3Z Gary)
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2015 03:00:38 +0000
Subject: Topband: 2 wl loop, worth the effort?
In-Reply-To: <1483096761.15823662.1449022041867.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net>
References: <005601d12c55$d01822a0$704867e0$@comcast.net>
	<1483096761.15823662.1449022041867.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <BN3PR1201MB0963A2D2238E8AEB56BF7BCA980E0@BN3PR1201MB0963.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>

I have been contemplating a sky loop to replace my coax 160/80M fan 
dipole. The loop would be fed with ladder line so I could use it on 160-40M.

It would take a bit more effort clearing an area to get up 2wl of wire 
but it could be done. Is the effort worth it over a 1wl loop? An 
additional issue is I can only get it up about 50'.

Right now the dipole is at 25' and works very well with the hams I daily 
keep in touch with in the 500-600 mile range, but is limited in it's 
bandwidth.


Gary Mitchelson
NC3Z/4 Pamlico County, NC FM15


From ranchorobbo at gmail.com  Wed Dec  2 12:53:39 2015
From: ranchorobbo at gmail.com (Rob Atkinson)
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2015 11:53:39 -0600
Subject: Topband:  2 wl loop, worth the effort?
Message-ID: <CALWD7Z7tRkMBGcAhyjuVkK4W=oyyii=hoZgGNvBkA0ZciyFYug@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Gary, It would make a nice receiving antenna.

Let's start with a question:  Would you put up a loop for 20 meters
that is 6 feet off the ground?  Height for horizontal antennas must
always be thought of in terms of _wavelength_.  There is only one
effective transmitting antenna for medium wave, assuming you do not
have 200 foot tall supports for stringing up a horizontal wire
antenna, and that is some sort of monopole over a good ground system.
Period.  And good ground system means a lot of radials.  A lot.  Not
10 or 20.  You don't get to cheat on the laws of physics.  You have to
bite the bullet and do the work.  The excited vertical part has
options.  T, inverted L, or an insulated tower are all fine provided
the vertical part is at least 50 feet tall (more is better).

Don't take this personally--it's just that I get tired of piss weak
signals on 160 from hams who seem to think they have an exemption from
Mother Nature.  A dead giveaway that a ham is using a low dipole, 20
feet or so, is rapid deep QSB.  Even 50 feet is too low.  Inverted Vs
are worse.  the effective height is halfway between the apex height
and the height of the ends.  A big horizontal loop on transmit does
nothing for you but cause more of your RF to get lost to ground
coupling.

73

Rob
K5UJ

From kolson at rcn.com  Wed Dec  2 13:48:54 2015
From: kolson at rcn.com (kolson at rcn.com)
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2015 13:48:54 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Topband: 2 wl loop, worth the effort?
In-Reply-To: <CALWD7Z7tRkMBGcAhyjuVkK4W=oyyii=hoZgGNvBkA0ZciyFYug@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <667198342.103376840.1449082134047.JavaMail.root@rcn.com>


Well Rob, if you read Gary's email, you will find that he is interested in communicating?"...with the hams I daily keep in touch with in the 500-600 mile range." The loop may be a great antenna for this but not, as you say, so much for DXing. 
? 
But there is, in my view,?a deeper issue here. I t's ?the?"it's just that I get tired of piss weak signals on 160 from hams who seem to think they have an exemption from Mother Nature" theorem. For many of us, compromise is built in to our situation, we are not being obstinate just to?pee you off. In my case, I have a 110 X 50 foot property in a residential neighborhood and I am limited to a "T" transmit antenna (40 ft up, 92 ft flattop) and a K9AY RX array in a somewhat noisy neighborhood. So no, I don't hear or TX?like those with a more favorable QTH, but I?enjoy 160 meters, I have fun and do the best I?can with what I have. So if I occasionally call out of time (I try not to) because I don't have the "ears" you do, don't take it personally... 

73 Kevin K3OX? 


----- Original Message -----

From: "Rob Atkinson" <ranchorobbo at gmail.com> 
To: topband at contesting.com 
Sent: Wednesday, December 2, 2015 12:53:39 PM 
Subject: Topband: ?2 wl loop, worth the effort? 

Hi Gary, It would make a nice receiving antenna. 

Let's start with a question: ?Would you put up a loop for 20 meters 
that is 6 feet off the ground? ?Height for horizontal antennas must 
always be thought of in terms of _wavelength_. ?There is only one 
effective transmitting antenna for medium wave, assuming you do not 
have 200 foot tall supports for stringing up a horizontal wire 
antenna, and that is some sort of monopole over a good ground system. 
Period. ?And good ground system means a lot of radials. ?A lot. ?Not 
10 or 20. ?You don't get to cheat on the laws of physics. ?You have to 
bite the bullet and do the work. ?The excited vertical part has 
options. ?T, inverted L, or an insulated tower are all fine provided 
the vertical part is at least 50 feet tall (more is better). 

Don't take this personally--it's just that I get tired of piss weak 
signals on 160 from hams who seem to think they have an exemption from 
Mother Nature. ?A dead giveaway that a ham is using a low dipole, 20 
feet or so, is rapid deep QSB. ?Even 50 feet is too low. ?Inverted Vs 
are worse. ?the effective height is halfway between the apex height 
and the height of the ends. ?A big horizontal loop on transmit does 
nothing for you but cause more of your RF to get lost to ground 
coupling. 

73 

Rob 
K5UJ 
_________________ 
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband 


From wd8dsb at gmail.com  Wed Dec  2 14:02:34 2015
From: wd8dsb at gmail.com (Don Kirk)
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2015 14:02:34 -0500
Subject: Topband: 2 wl loop, worth the effort?
In-Reply-To: <CALWD7Z7tRkMBGcAhyjuVkK4W=oyyii=hoZgGNvBkA0ZciyFYug@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALWD7Z7tRkMBGcAhyjuVkK4W=oyyii=hoZgGNvBkA0ZciyFYug@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKtW65cyb1C34rmdwoODe4jONWGTkizFbV5kdXQ0metgeZq6dQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Rob (and gang),

I would like to make one point that should be considered in this discussion.

A true vertical which is what I use (not an inverted L) on 160 meters is
sometimes horrible on 160 meters for skywave that originates from close in
(200 miles or less as an example).  During contests I sometimes can't hear
a station calling me on my vertical since it's deaf to NVIS signals
(signals arriving at a very high angle), but when I switch to one of my
pennants suddenly I'm hearing the station 18dB to 38 dB over my noise floor
(really an amazing phenomena).  The pennant RX antenna gain is only 5 dB
down on NVIS (for signals arriving directly overhead) compared with the max
gain of the pennant which is at 31 degrees above the horizon.  In
comparison my 68 foot base loaded vertical has a gain of -20 dB or worse
for NVIS at an angle 85 degrees or higher above the horizon compared to its
max gain at 22 degrees.

Therefore while I don't disagree that a vertical on 160 meters is a great
antenna especially for DX work, for working stations in close it sometimes
can be a disadvantage.  Based on modeling it looks like a dipole only 15
feet off the ground on 160 meters would perform much better than my
vertical for signals arriving at very high angles (as an example).

Therefore depending on Gary's goal, a true vertical on 160 meters may or
may not be in his best interest (but an inverted L might be).

Just one of the many things to consider.

73,
Don (wd8dsb)



On Wed, Dec 2, 2015 at 12:53 PM, Rob Atkinson <ranchorobbo at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Gary, It would make a nice receiving antenna.
>
> Let's start with a question:  Would you put up a loop for 20 meters
> that is 6 feet off the ground?  Height for horizontal antennas must
> always be thought of in terms of _wavelength_.  There is only one
> effective transmitting antenna for medium wave, assuming you do not
> have 200 foot tall supports for stringing up a horizontal wire
> antenna, and that is some sort of monopole over a good ground system.
> Period.  And good ground system means a lot of radials.  A lot.  Not
> 10 or 20.  You don't get to cheat on the laws of physics.  You have to
> bite the bullet and do the work.  The excited vertical part has
> options.  T, inverted L, or an insulated tower are all fine provided
> the vertical part is at least 50 feet tall (more is better).
>
> Don't take this personally--it's just that I get tired of piss weak
> signals on 160 from hams who seem to think they have an exemption from
> Mother Nature.  A dead giveaway that a ham is using a low dipole, 20
> feet or so, is rapid deep QSB.  Even 50 feet is too low.  Inverted Vs
> are worse.  the effective height is halfway between the apex height
> and the height of the ends.  A big horizontal loop on transmit does
> nothing for you but cause more of your RF to get lost to ground
> coupling.
>
> 73
>
> Rob
> K5UJ
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>

From jim at audiosystemsgroup.com  Wed Dec  2 14:28:24 2015
From: jim at audiosystemsgroup.com (Jim Brown)
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2015 11:28:24 -0800
Subject: Topband: 2 wl loop, worth the effort?
In-Reply-To: <CAKtW65cyb1C34rmdwoODe4jONWGTkizFbV5kdXQ0metgeZq6dQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALWD7Z7tRkMBGcAhyjuVkK4W=oyyii=hoZgGNvBkA0ZciyFYug@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKtW65cyb1C34rmdwoODe4jONWGTkizFbV5kdXQ0metgeZq6dQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <565F4658.20806@audiosystemsgroup.com>

On Wed,12/2/2015 11:02 AM, Don Kirk wrote:
> Therefore while I don't disagree that a vertical on 160 meters is a great
> antenna especially for DX work, for working stations in close it sometimes
> can be a disadvantage.  Based on modeling it looks like a dipole only 15
> feet off the ground on 160 meters would perform much better than my
> vertical for signals arriving at very high angles (as an example).

You are misinterpreting the model data by looking at the shape of the 
pattern rather than the relative strength of the pattern at angles of 
interest. Example -- the so-called "take off angle" simply shows the 
vertical angle where the signal is the strongest. FAR more important to 
look at the field strength at various angles as the height is varied. I 
did exactly that in an extensive modeling study comparing vertical and 
horizontal antennas of various heights. While I concentrated my work on 
80M and 40M, the results are directly applicable to 160M if heights in 
feet are doubled from the 80M plots.

http://k9yc.com/VertOrHorizontal-Slides.pdf

Bottom line -- for 160M, we mere mortals simply can't get a horizontal 
antenna too high for local QSOs, and higher is better, at least up to 
200 ft.

73, Jim K9YC

From w8ji at w8ji.com  Wed Dec  2 15:04:48 2015
From: w8ji at w8ji.com (Tom W8JI)
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2015 15:04:48 -0500
Subject: Topband: 2 wl loop, worth the effort?
References: <CALWD7Z7tRkMBGcAhyjuVkK4W=oyyii=hoZgGNvBkA0ZciyFYug@mail.gmail.com><CAKtW65cyb1C34rmdwoODe4jONWGTkizFbV5kdXQ0metgeZq6dQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<565F4658.20806@audiosystemsgroup.com>
Message-ID: <E25FFC92E4F84044B3327A6370FB4B53@MAIN>

> You are misinterpreting the model data by looking at the shape of the 
> pattern rather than the relative strength of the pattern at angles of 
> interest. Example -- the so-called "take off angle" simply shows the 
> vertical angle where the signal is the strongest. FAR more important to 
> look at the field strength at various angles as the height is varied.

Many people talk about and look at TOA, and it causes them to pick antennas 
that are actually worse just because the TOA is at the correct angle. :)

If you look at a low dipole, it has just about the same gain as a low loop. 
Being a loop helps moderate impedance on harmonics, but not much else.

I have 300 ft of height here. For the most part, a vertical did as well or 
better than a dipole at any height and distance. The exceptions were at 
sunrise or in magnetic storms, or within 50-200 miles (where a dipole below 
150 feet works much better).  Compared to a vertical, there could be 10-30 
dB difference in favor of a low dipole (less than 150 ft high) within a few 
hundred miles. 


From mikewate at gmail.com  Wed Dec  2 15:05:35 2015
From: mikewate at gmail.com (Mike Waters)
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2015 14:05:35 -0600
Subject: Topband: 2 wl loop, worth the effort?
In-Reply-To: <565F4658.20806@audiosystemsgroup.com>
References: <CALWD7Z7tRkMBGcAhyjuVkK4W=oyyii=hoZgGNvBkA0ZciyFYug@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKtW65cyb1C34rmdwoODe4jONWGTkizFbV5kdXQ0metgeZq6dQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<565F4658.20806@audiosystemsgroup.com>
Message-ID: <CA+FxYXjh98NoqZJ=BiCbOqueLHTg8844sLjDrG+szkAtRquvLw@mail.gmail.com>

160m is a band for vertical polarization.
www.w0btu.com/160_meters.html
I am a happy user of an inverted-L hung from a tree.

Those that don't have room for resonant elevated radials like mine can use
K2AV's compact counterpoise, or lay as much wire on the ground as your
space permits.
www.w0uce.net/K2AVantennas.html

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com

From mikestahoe at sbcglobal.net  Wed Dec  2 15:07:45 2015
From: mikestahoe at sbcglobal.net (mikestahoe at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2015 20:07:45 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Topband: 2 wl loop, worth the effort?
References: <1304174262.11450020.1449086865473.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1304174262.11450020.1449086865473.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

For what its worth Id stick with the dipoles at that height. I tried 1,2 and 3 wave length loops at ~110 ft  
(vs dipole at 110 ft)  and "on the average" the dipole worked the best.  This is completely unscientific but 
two years of playing on 160 the 1 wave length loop was quieter but didnt have the coverage of the 
dipole, 2 wave length was the worst (noisier that the one wave length and didnt hear as well) the 3 wave length was only up a short time due to a snow
storm but it didnt seem to perform any better than the 1 wave length.  
If I remember correctly odd wave length loops tend to model better than even wavelength loops.??

K7MS/Lake Tahoe
--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 12/1/15, NC3Z Gary <nc3z at outlook.com> wrote:

 Subject: Topband: 2 wl loop, worth the effort?
 To: "topband at contesting.com" <topband at contesting.com>
 Date: Tuesday, December 1, 2015, 7:00 PM
 
 I have been contemplating a sky loop
 to replace my coax 160/80M fan 
 dipole. The loop would be fed with ladder line so I could
 use it on 160-40M.
 
 It would take a bit more effort clearing an area to get up
 2wl of wire 
 but it could be done. Is the effort worth it over a 1wl
 loop? An 
 additional issue is I can only get it up about 50'.
 
 Right now the dipole is at 25' and works very well with the
 hams I daily 
 keep in touch with in the 500-600 mile range, but is limited
 in it's 
 bandwidth.
 
 
 Gary Mitchelson
 NC3Z/4 Pamlico County, NC FM15
 
 _________________
 Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
 

From mikewate at gmail.com  Wed Dec  2 15:25:59 2015
From: mikewate at gmail.com (Mike Waters)
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2015 14:25:59 -0600
Subject: Topband: 2 wl loop, worth the effort?
In-Reply-To: <1304174262.11450020.1449086865473.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1304174262.11450020.1449086865473.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1304174262.11450020.1449086865473.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CA+FxYXjrBjfyePOnQ0CyWGXbRUD_TEp70x9F3NuxpXBLkDXtHA@mail.gmail.com>

Model a low 1-wl loop, and you'll see why it was quieter.

1. There's not quite as much low-angle response. Most local noise comes
from very low angles.
2. More ground loss.

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com

On Wed, Dec 2, 2015 at 2:07 PM, <mikestahoe at sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> two years of playing on 160 the 1 wave length loop was quieter but didnt
> have the coverage of the dipole,
>

From mikewate at gmail.com  Wed Dec  2 15:35:52 2015
From: mikewate at gmail.com (Mike Waters)
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2015 14:35:52 -0600
Subject: Topband: 2 wl loop, worth the effort?
In-Reply-To: <CA+FxYXjrBjfyePOnQ0CyWGXbRUD_TEp70x9F3NuxpXBLkDXtHA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1304174262.11450020.1449086865473.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1304174262.11450020.1449086865473.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
	<CA+FxYXjrBjfyePOnQ0CyWGXbRUD_TEp70x9F3NuxpXBLkDXtHA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+FxYXgmuW2QPLCdy_CiDgqrrCzm+P7m=nfcKdvPobr9gtk2_w@mail.gmail.com>

I should have added that in some types of weather, a dipole may have more
corona (which makes noise) off the ends than a loop.

I have an EZNEC model of a low loop, if someone wants it.

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com

On Wed, Dec 2, 2015 at 2:25 PM, Mike Waters <mikewate at gmail.com> wrote:

> Model a low 1-wl loop, and you'll see why it was quieter.
>
> 1. There's not quite as much low-angle response. Most local noise comes
> from very low angles.
> 2. More ground loss.
>
> 73, Mike
> www.w0btu.com
>
> On Wed, Dec 2, 2015 at 2:07 PM, <mikestahoe at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> two years of playing on 160 the 1 wave length loop was quieter but didnt
>> have the coverage of the dipole,
>>
>
>

From mikewate at gmail.com  Wed Dec  2 15:43:42 2015
From: mikewate at gmail.com (Mike Waters)
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2015 14:43:42 -0600
Subject: Topband: 2 wl loop, worth the effort?
In-Reply-To: <CA+FxYXgmuW2QPLCdy_CiDgqrrCzm+P7m=nfcKdvPobr9gtk2_w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1304174262.11450020.1449086865473.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1304174262.11450020.1449086865473.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
	<CA+FxYXjrBjfyePOnQ0CyWGXbRUD_TEp70x9F3NuxpXBLkDXtHA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+FxYXgmuW2QPLCdy_CiDgqrrCzm+P7m=nfcKdvPobr9gtk2_w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+FxYXijm1zSXsh2aqxOq50Jt9iUqFRzz_eLbOfPchUEp-mUSg@mail.gmail.com>

Forget I said all that. I looked at the model and found some possible
mistakes. And I don't have any more time now to fix it.

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com

On Wed, Dec 2, 2015 at 2:35 PM, Mike Waters <mikewate at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> I have an EZNEC model of a low loop, if someone wants it.
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 2, 2015 at 2:25 PM, Mike Waters <mikewate at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Model a low 1-wl loop, and you'll see why it was quieter.
>>
>> 1. There's not quite as much low-angle response. Most local noise comes
>> from very low angles.
>> 2. More ground loss.
>>
>> 73, Mike
>> www.w0btu.com
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 2, 2015 at 2:07 PM, <mikestahoe at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>>> two years of playing on 160 the 1 wave length loop was quieter but didnt
>>> have the coverage of the dipole,
>>>
>>
>>
>

From pearse at gci.net  Wed Dec  2 16:05:01 2015
From: pearse at gci.net (Gary and Kathleen Pearse)
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2015 12:05:01 -0900
Subject: Topband: 2 wl loop, worth the effort?
In-Reply-To: <E25FFC92E4F84044B3327A6370FB4B53@MAIN>
References: <CALWD7Z7tRkMBGcAhyjuVkK4W=oyyii=hoZgGNvBkA0ZciyFYug@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKtW65cyb1C34rmdwoODe4jONWGTkizFbV5kdXQ0metgeZq6dQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<565F4658.20806@audiosystemsgroup.com>
	<E25FFC92E4F84044B3327A6370FB4B53@MAIN>
Message-ID: <705AD3ED-F0F8-4B7B-A3FE-C2045A5B6754@gci.net>

Try putting a closed reflector wire under a 1 WL horizontal loop. Lay it on the ground or bury. Use insulated wire and size per typical loops?~+5% at design frequency. Experiment by listening to weak signals while opening and closing the ends of the reflector. 

At our latitude (64N) loops (and Inv-L?s) work well if a full size vert is unavailable. Some have suggested it?s due to our tilted Ionosphere. That?s been my experience on 40-160.

73, Gary NL7Y



From Rodenkirch_LLC at msn.com  Wed Dec  2 16:29:53 2015
From: Rodenkirch_LLC at msn.com (James Rodenkirch)
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2015 21:29:53 +0000
Subject: Topband: 2 wl loop, worth the effort?
In-Reply-To: <667198342.103376840.1449082134047.JavaMail.root@rcn.com>
References: <CALWD7Z7tRkMBGcAhyjuVkK4W=oyyii=hoZgGNvBkA0ZciyFYug@mail.gmail.com>,
	<667198342.103376840.1449082134047.JavaMail.root@rcn.com>
Message-ID: <SN1PR16MB06233944F78F7B65DE29828BF00E0@SN1PR16MB0623.namprd16.prod.outlook.com>

Kevin - I'm in a more tenuous position with Rob than you!!!   I operate QRP on 160 ---- you can bet if Rob gets wind of that he'll think I'm REALLY peeing in  his Wheaties, 'eh???? 

71.5/72 de Jim R. K9JWV

________________________________________
From: Topband <topband-bounces at contesting.com> on behalf of kolson at rcn.com <kolson at rcn.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 2, 2015 11:48 AM
To: Rob Atkinson
Cc: topband at contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: 2 wl loop, worth the effort?

Well Rob, if you read Gary's email, you will find that he is interested in communicating "...with the hams I daily keep in touch with in the 500-600 mile range." The loop may be a great antenna for this but not, as you say, so much for DXing.

But there is, in my view, a deeper issue here. I t's  the "it's just that I get tired of piss weak signals on 160 from hams who seem to think they have an exemption from Mother Nature" theorem. For many of us, compromise is built in to our situation, we are not being obstinate just to pee you off. In my case, I have a 110 X 50 foot property in a residential neighborhood and I am limited to a "T" transmit antenna (40 ft up, 92 ft flattop) and a K9AY RX array in a somewhat noisy neighborhood. So no, I don't hear or TX like those with a more favorable QTH, but I enjoy 160 meters, I have fun and do the best I can with what I have. So if I occasionally call out of time (I try not to) because I don't have the "ears" you do, don't take it personally...

73 Kevin K3OX


----- Original Message -----

From: "Rob Atkinson" <ranchorobbo at gmail.com>
To: topband at contesting.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 2, 2015 12:53:39 PM
Subject: Topband:  2 wl loop, worth the effort?

Hi Gary, It would make a nice receiving antenna.

Let's start with a question:  Would you put up a loop for 20 meters
that is 6 feet off the ground?  Height for horizontal antennas must
always be thought of in terms of _wavelength_.  There is only one
effective transmitting antenna for medium wave, assuming you do not
have 200 foot tall supports for stringing up a horizontal wire
antenna, and that is some sort of monopole over a good ground system.
Period.  And good ground system means a lot of radials.  A lot.  Not
10 or 20.  You don't get to cheat on the laws of physics.  You have to
bite the bullet and do the work.  The excited vertical part has
options.  T, inverted L, or an insulated tower are all fine provided
the vertical part is at least 50 feet tall (more is better).

Don't take this personally--it's just that I get tired of piss weak
signals on 160 from hams who seem to think they have an exemption from
Mother Nature.  A dead giveaway that a ham is using a low dipole, 20
feet or so, is rapid deep QSB.  Even 50 feet is too low.  Inverted Vs
are worse.  the effective height is halfway between the apex height
and the height of the ends.  A big horizontal loop on transmit does
nothing for you but cause more of your RF to get lost to ground
coupling.

73

Rob
K5UJ
_________________
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

_________________
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

From wd8dsb at gmail.com  Wed Dec  2 17:09:35 2015
From: wd8dsb at gmail.com (Don Kirk)
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2015 17:09:35 -0500
Subject: Topband: 2 wl loop, worth the effort?
In-Reply-To: <E25FFC92E4F84044B3327A6370FB4B53@MAIN>
References: <CALWD7Z7tRkMBGcAhyjuVkK4W=oyyii=hoZgGNvBkA0ZciyFYug@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKtW65cyb1C34rmdwoODe4jONWGTkizFbV5kdXQ0metgeZq6dQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<565F4658.20806@audiosystemsgroup.com>
	<E25FFC92E4F84044B3327A6370FB4B53@MAIN>
Message-ID: <CAKtW65eRJew4r592angn6qTj9v4Fg-WywPO9j9CvA803dsvikQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Tom,

You said "Compared to a vertical, there could be 10-30 dB difference in
favor of a low dipole (less than 150 ft high) within a few hundred miles.",
and I was pretty much trying to make the same point but indirectly since I
don't have a dipole on 160 meters.

The original poster mentioned relatively short distance work on 160 meters,
and that is why I mentioned that a true vertical may not actually be his
best choice (he might actually go backwards in performance if he is trying
to work stations in adjacent states as an example).

Don (wd8dsb)





On Wed, Dec 2, 2015 at 3:04 PM, Tom W8JI <w8ji at w8ji.com> wrote:

> You are misinterpreting the model data by looking at the shape of the
>> pattern rather than the relative strength of the pattern at angles of
>> interest. Example -- the so-called "take off angle" simply shows the
>> vertical angle where the signal is the strongest. FAR more important to
>> look at the field strength at various angles as the height is varied.
>>
>
> Many people talk about and look at TOA, and it causes them to pick
> antennas that are actually worse just because the TOA is at the correct
> angle. :)
>
> If you look at a low dipole, it has just about the same gain as a low
> loop. Being a loop helps moderate impedance on harmonics, but not much else.
>
> I have 300 ft of height here. For the most part, a vertical did as well or
> better than a dipole at any height and distance. The exceptions were at
> sunrise or in magnetic storms, or within 50-200 miles (where a dipole below
> 150 feet works much better).  Compared to a vertical, there could be 10-30
> dB difference in favor of a low dipole (less than 150 ft high) within a few
> hundred miles.
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>

From kp2bh at yahoo.com  Wed Dec  2 19:32:40 2015
From: kp2bh at yahoo.com (james soto)
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2015 00:32:40 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Topband: adding another inverted l to the existing
References: <2062752543.11602711.1449102760206.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <2062752543.11602711.1449102760206.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

Actually iam using an inverted L for 160 with few radials.I would like to build another one for 75 meters band. my questio are:1. How close they could be??2. could i use the same radials existing from the 160 inverted L?Thankskp2bh/jimmy

From nc3z at outlook.com  Wed Dec  2 19:43:05 2015
From: nc3z at outlook.com (NC3Z Gary)
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2015 00:43:05 +0000
Subject: Topband: 2 wl loop, worth the effort?
In-Reply-To: <BN3PR1201MB0963A2D2238E8AEB56BF7BCA980E0@BN3PR1201MB0963.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
References: <005601d12c55$d01822a0$704867e0$@comcast.net>
	<1483096761.15823662.1449022041867.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net>
	<BN3PR1201MB0963A2D2238E8AEB56BF7BCA980E0@BN3PR1201MB0963.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <BN3PR1201MB0963F410D90DA5EC9484CF0F980D0@BN3PR1201MB0963.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>

Thanks for all the replies, guess the consensus is it is not worth the 
effort to put up a 2wl loop over a 1wl.

I know several mentioned verticals but I really was interested in the 
loop option. This is for QSO's with stations 500-600 miles from me, 
currently they report that my signal is strong and very consistent with 
the 25' high dipole believe it or not.

But the dipole is fed with coax and has a limited bandwidth. I am 
switching to ladder line and was thinking the loop may be the next 
evolution.

I also could move the dipole back to get it up to about 50' and feed it 
with ladder line as an option.

My height is limited to what I have for trees. No tower planned for the 
new QTH since we are in hurricane/coastal storm country.

As far as a receive only antenna that is in the plans soon.

Gary Mitchelson
NC3Z/4 Pamlico County, NC FM15


On 01-Dec-15 22:00, NC3Z Gary wrote:
> I have been contemplating a sky loop to replace my coax 160/80M fan
> dipole. The loop would be fed with ladder line so I could use it on 160-40M.
>
> It would take a bit more effort clearing an area to get up 2wl of wire
> but it could be done. Is the effort worth it over a 1wl loop? An
> additional issue is I can only get it up about 50'.
>
> Right now the dipole is at 25' and works very well with the hams I daily
> keep in touch with in the 500-600 mile range, but is limited in it's
> bandwidth.
>
>
> Gary Mitchelson
> NC3Z/4 Pamlico County, NC FM15
>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>

From w8ji at w8ji.com  Wed Dec  2 19:54:42 2015
From: w8ji at w8ji.com (Tom W8JI)
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2015 19:54:42 -0500
Subject: Topband: 2 wl loop, worth the effort?
References: <CALWD7Z7tRkMBGcAhyjuVkK4W=oyyii=hoZgGNvBkA0ZciyFYug@mail.gmail.com><CAKtW65cyb1C34rmdwoODe4jONWGTkizFbV5kdXQ0metgeZq6dQ@mail.gmail.com><565F4658.20806@audiosystemsgroup.com><E25FFC92E4F84044B3327A6370FB4B53@MAIN>
	<CAKtW65eRJew4r592angn6qTj9v4Fg-WywPO9j9CvA803dsvikQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B23A4BEC3A6448A1828359CC3BBF2A34@MAIN>

> You said "Compared to a vertical, there could be 10-30 dB difference in
> favor of a low dipole (less than 150 ft high) within a few hundred 
> miles.",
> and I was pretty much trying to make the same point but indirectly since I
> don't have a dipole on 160 meters.
>
> The original poster mentioned relatively short distance work on 160 
> meters,
> and that is why I mentioned that a true vertical may not actually be his
> best choice (he might actually go backwards in performance if he is trying
> to work stations in adjacent states as an example).

I've done hundreds or thousands of tests. I was test crazy when I moved 
here.

Within around 100-200 miles, at night, the verticals and a dipole up about 
1/2 wave are really dead compared to a "low" dipole.

That problem rapidly vanishes with increased distance, and during daytime 
skip zone of the high dipole moves in closer.  From my house the skip zone 
of a 280 ft high dipole is about 10-50 miles. The  vertical never really has 
a skip zone in the daytime. Groundwave fills it in.

I initially thought a low dipole (or a high dipole) was worth it, but I 
outgrew that. I just live with the weaker signal in the skip zone. The 
vertical does so much better at most distances most of the time it is just 
not worth worrying about.

If I wanted to work 50-200 miles, I'd probably just use a low dipole. 


From n2gz at gregzenger.com  Wed Dec  2 21:00:48 2015
From: n2gz at gregzenger.com (Greg Zenger)
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2015 21:00:48 -0500
Subject: Topband: adding another inverted l to the existing
In-Reply-To: <2062752543.11602711.1449102760206.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <2062752543.11602711.1449102760206.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<2062752543.11602711.1449102760206.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAE8nip3z6kpCprujSj6hmzQs3o7KcsvTMee88w=L84Nsw5jhew@mail.gmail.com>

I have a 80m free standing 1/4 vertical on 80m, over 60x 65' radials.  A
coil between the feed-point and the radial plate matches the antenna.
Large ferrite beads were added to the feed-line at the feed point. The
feed-line is about 250 feet of LMR-400-DB/

Last year I decided add an inverted L for 160 to the feed point.  I
couldn't get it to work well with both the 80m vertical and 160m inverted L
attached, until I added a 1:1 balun at the feed point.

The 80m element is 3" OD aluminum at the bottom and tapers to 1/4 inch at
the top, about 74 feet tall.  The vertical section of the 160m inverted L
is only about 40 or so feet tall  and is at approximately 20 degrees angle
to the 80m vertical before going horizontal across my yard. No other
dipoles are near it.

Performance on 80m appears unaffected, and the inverted L performs much
better than the 1/2 wave dipole I have on 160m up at 97 feet.

It has been on my to-do list to make measurements of the exact geometry of
the installation and run it through a few simulations to fully understand
what it is going on.

I think the key is the large number of radials on the ground and the balun.

Greg, N2GZ



On Wed, Dec 2, 2015 at 7:32 PM, james soto via Topband <
topband at contesting.com> wrote:

> Actually iam using an inverted L for 160 with few radials.I would like to
> build another one for 75 meters band. my questio are:1. How close they
> could be? 2. could i use the same radials existing from the 160 inverted
> L?Thankskp2bh/jimmy
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

From kp2bh at yahoo.com  Wed Dec  2 21:17:33 2015
From: kp2bh at yahoo.com (james soto)
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2015 02:17:33 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Topband: 2nd inverted L
References: <1483985867.11656611.1449109053220.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1483985867.11656611.1449109053220.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

In the previous post i did not mention that the antennas will be feed
individually.thanks kp2bh / jimmy

From ajamas.rn at gmail.com  Wed Dec  2 22:30:44 2015
From: ajamas.rn at gmail.com (Katz Ajamas)
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2015 22:30:44 -0500
Subject: Topband: 2WL loop
Message-ID: <CA+kZa5qiRtMe6g6QKn5RXSBWc5_28aNE7yZYnGFdJFiGb1yBYQ@mail.gmail.com>

Nc3Z

I use a 1wl vertical plane loop for DX on 80-20. It does about as well as
the 80m inv V with apex at a little under twice the height. If I had room
I'd try a 1WL on 160, even with the 50' height limitation. For local...I'm
lazy. I'd try the 1WL before doing all the work to clear space for the 2WL
:-)

73, -Bob ah7i/w4 and no decent 160m antenna yet.

From pa3aav at hetnet.nl  Thu Dec  3 00:46:08 2015
From: pa3aav at hetnet.nl (Gert Meinen)
Date: Thu, 03 Dec 2015 06:46:08 +0100
Subject: Topband: adding another inverted l to the existing
In-Reply-To: <2062752543.11602711.1449102760206.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <e6b9f93f-f781-4f68-b479-16ca0787c2d6@email.android.com>

James,

You can add another inverted L in the same plane as the 160m one. If you keep 'm seperated 1 or 2 meters they 'll work  great, they don' t "see" each other.
You can put 'm on the same feedpoint and just add some more capacitance to an L network on 160m to match the antennas to the feedline.

73 Gert PA3AAV

From w7ew at arrl.net  Thu Dec  3 01:04:54 2015
From: w7ew at arrl.net (Lew Sayre)
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2015 22:04:54 -0800
Subject: Topband: Fwd: 20th Stew Perry TopBand DX Challange
In-Reply-To: <CAPqMs-no3tHW44JvrBVmmUZH6Mz9qzp+_B297QmX9Yq_qoBvTQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPqMs-no3tHW44JvrBVmmUZH6Mz9qzp+_B297QmX9Yq_qoBvTQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPqMs-ko+c2dHE6aPOMU+KqFjOUYCGWsJ4WgKE=r0oaPLafC8A@mail.gmail.com>

Greetings to the Ditters and Dawters of the 160M Realm,
      The evil snow, ice, winds and politicians are all afoot now... but
the bright spot is
coming your way 1500Z Dec. 26 to 1500Z Dec. 27 in the form of the 20th
Edition
of The Stew Perry TopBand DX Challenge sponsored by The Boring Amateur
Radio Club.
This is the fairest contest in our known galaxy. It is a Morse Code (CW)
contest where
the exchange is your call-sign and your grid-square. Through magic, the
astute log
checkers of our massive club are able to determine how far away your
contact was
with another station. The idea is that far away contacts are worth more
than close in
contacts. Also, you get extra points for working low power and QRP stations
which delights
the lesser powered stations and rewards you for sticking with that -27dB
signal in the mush
until you can discern the call and grid-square.  You should really browse
on over to:
 www.kkn.net/stew/       and read the rules and see the other cool stuff
there.
      The following Giants of Contesting are sponsoring plaques for The
Stew. These Luminaries
have offered up a category to spur on the radio combatants and have sent in
the $60
($63-PayPal) to spice up the competition.  Please give positive
affirmations to these
radio competition Stalwarts when you see them...or at least buy them a
beverage.
     Yes, We are aware that KL7RA is SK.  He was The Boring Amateur Radio
Club
Chairman of the Contest Food and Drink Committee among other duties.
     We miss him greatly.

KL7RA                            Top # of QSOs
North Pole Contest Group  To be decided
K7FL/5H2DA                    Top Score 100% Search & Pounce
KR2Q                              Golden Log Award
N0TT                                Top Score < 21y/o, >200 QSOs
K7CA                               Top Score China
TF3KX                              Aurora Borealis Award- Top Score North
of 60 deg N
                                        geomagnetic Latitude
Dr. Beldar-L1AR                Top Score,S/O, Temp Antenna erected after
Dec.14
UX1UA                              Top # NA + SA QSOs by Zone 16 Station
UX1UA                              USA Station with Top #  QSOs with Zone 16
K6ND                                K6ND Memorial- Top Score, S/O, World
K1EP                                Top LP score between 30deg N and 40deg
N latitude
                                        (Any station located in  xM##  grid
square)
KH6LC                              VK-ZL Challenge- Top Score,S/O, VL/ZL
N6TQ/A25TQ                     California Dreaming- Top # of QSOs with
California
                                         stations by a non-California
station
W2GD Team                      Top # QSOs with NA/SA, by a EU station
W7RH                                Top Score, Low Power, Asia
K7CA                                 Top Score from Zone 24, 27 or 28
K7CA                                 Top Score from either Zone 19 or 25
VK6VZ- Flying Doctors        Top Score- N. Hemisphere station working
of VK Baseball hat               S. Hemisphere stations

To see if you have remembered to pay for your plaque go to:
http://www.kkn.net/stew/plaques.txt

     You also may join this stellar group by proffering a suitable category
you would like to see emphasized and then sending along the funds.
     We have been petitioned to have a Stew Perry SSB contest.
After vigorous and protracted discussions among our various committees
we strongly feel that the language of 160M is CW.  There will be no SSB
version sponsored by The Boring Amateur Radio Club unless we are
bought out by Amazon, Google, Facebook or Yahoo. And maybe not
even then.
      Please get on the 160M airwaves this weekend as the ARRL has
nicely scheduled a great Stew warm-up called strangely enough
The ARRL 160M Contest- CW.
     The winning plaques for the 2014 Stew Perry will be sent to the winners
very soon as the little old plaque-maker has been working on them
diligently.
    See you in The Stew!
    73 and I remain,
    Lew      w7ew
   w7ew at arrl.net

From ranchorobbo at gmail.com  Thu Dec  3 06:39:33 2015
From: ranchorobbo at gmail.com (Rob Atkinson)
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2015 05:39:33 -0600
Subject: Topband: 2 wl loop, worth the effort?
Message-ID: <CALWD7Z4fxE5MEG5TWyRuaX2hXxrWcpMZg42=RYpx3bbjYdo9AQ@mail.gmail.com>

I apologize if I ticked anyone off; I'm just trying to help hams
understand what is needed to get out.  This is not directed at any one
person.  The topic came up and I have an opinion based on experience
with what works and what doesn't.

If you put up a cloud burner one or more of three things happen:

1.   Some guy who can't hear you comes on what sounds like a clear
frequency and calls CQ on top of you.  If you are okay with that then
no problem.  But with the elevated noise floor, it is more and more
important to do what you can to be audible.  The kinds of setups that
were FB 50 years ago often don't make the nut now because in many
locations 10 dB or more of noise has to be overcome.  Hams in other
than rural QTHs simply cannot eliminate all of the noise sources.
They can null some out but they can not get the noise floor back to
like it was in 1970.  That ship has sailed.
Another characteristic of medium wave is long deep QSB fades.  That
has to be overcome with power and a good antenna.

2.  You hear a big signal and call.  No answer, or "Sri OM vy poor
copy try later es 73" because there is not reciprocity between tx and
rx with a single antenna on medium wave like there is on HF.

3.  You may swear up and down you only want to work locals with your
cloud burner but I'd be rich if I had a buck for every ham who calls
me from 500 miles away with a "local" antenna.   I would like to have
a QSO but spending an hour digging out a signal is not my idea of a
good time.

But, an inverted L has some cloud burner property owing to part of the
antenna being horizontal.  You can have your cake and eat it too.  By
the way, I am on a 50 x 100 foot lot in a small city.  Antennas are
inverted L with 101 radials, many > 50 feet  long and an InLogis Pixel
Loop antenna.

73

Rob
K5UJ

From mort.g2jl at ntlworld.com  Thu Dec  3 07:01:57 2015
From: mort.g2jl at ntlworld.com (TRM)
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2015 12:01:57 -0000
Subject: Topband: 2 wl loop, worth the effort?
References: <CALWD7Z4fxE5MEG5TWyRuaX2hXxrWcpMZg42=RYpx3bbjYdo9AQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <16249E20D4744800B86A9482204FD212@volatile>

10 dB or more of noise ?  Mein Gott !

Oh for such a quiet QTH !


73 - Mort,  G2JL

From robb at robbwebbphotography.co.uk  Thu Dec  3 07:07:03 2015
From: robb at robbwebbphotography.co.uk (Robb Webb Proprietor of Robb Webb Photography)
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2015 12:07:03 +0000
Subject: Topband: Vertical Antenna on a cliff above the Sea
Message-ID: <7ECA011B-A752-4414-9B90-1622AF54080E@robbwebbphotography.co.uk>

Good day fellow Topband Experimenters. 
When it comes to antennas I am a keen experimenter but technically a suck it and see merchant rather than a design pro so I ask for your expert opinions. 
I live near a high cliff overlooking the sea. The cliff faces south, is a good 100ft high and is made up of mud and clay that over the years has been collapsing into the sea. I am considering mounting my Topband dipole as a vertical antenna above the cliff edge with the ground portion of the antenna going down the cliff edge below the vertical portion. I'm aware I may need to add radials but is there anything else I should need to consider. This is in preparation for the Boxing Day Stew Perry contest. 
Thanks for your help. 
Robb 
G0URR 


Robb Webb Photography
Bringing Photography to life
Mobile: 07891 575892


From tshoppa at gmail.com  Thu Dec  3 09:05:48 2015
From: tshoppa at gmail.com (Tim Shoppa)
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2015 09:05:48 -0500
Subject: Topband: Vertical Antenna on a cliff above the Sea
In-Reply-To: <7ECA011B-A752-4414-9B90-1622AF54080E@robbwebbphotography.co.uk>
References: <7ECA011B-A752-4414-9B90-1622AF54080E@robbwebbphotography.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CAJ_qRvZqKk7a_hnJ=4rv7+h8cyyt14be9J891uwmp_sBtdwqcg@mail.gmail.com>

Many DXpedition organizers on oceanfronts speak highly of vertical dipoles
or arrays of vertical dipoles for 40M/30M/20M. I'm not sure I've ever seen
any of these have the advantage of a cliff to do something for 160M.

I myself have been experimenting with vertical moxons on 20M, the bottom of
which is not much above ground level, including EZnec modeling, looking for
a good west-facing antenna with well-defined TOA for domestic contesting.

Tim N3QE

On Thu, Dec 3, 2015 at 7:07 AM, Robb Webb Proprietor of Robb Webb
Photography <robb at robbwebbphotography.co.uk> wrote:

> Good day fellow Topband Experimenters.
> When it comes to antennas I am a keen experimenter but technically a suck
> it and see merchant rather than a design pro so I ask for your expert
> opinions.
> I live near a high cliff overlooking the sea. The cliff faces south, is a
> good 100ft high and is made up of mud and clay that over the years has been
> collapsing into the sea. I am considering mounting my Topband dipole as a
> vertical antenna above the cliff edge with the ground portion of the
> antenna going down the cliff edge below the vertical portion. I'm aware I
> may need to add radials but is there anything else I should need to
> consider. This is in preparation for the Boxing Day Stew Perry contest.
> Thanks for your help.
> Robb
> G0URR
>
>
> Robb Webb Photography
> Bringing Photography to life
> Mobile: 07891 575892
>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>

From ranchorobbo at gmail.com  Thu Dec  3 09:46:15 2015
From: ranchorobbo at gmail.com (Rob Atkinson)
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2015 08:46:15 -0600
Subject: Topband: 2 wl loop, worth the effort?
In-Reply-To: <16249E20D4744800B86A9482204FD212@volatile>
References: <CALWD7Z4fxE5MEG5TWyRuaX2hXxrWcpMZg42=RYpx3bbjYdo9AQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<16249E20D4744800B86A9482204FD212@volatile>
Message-ID: <CALWD7Z5DxPbcz2uu7ijVVByRgjb0tJujhOC=wgvhUmNskPW9Vg@mail.gmail.com>

I should have written "10 dB or more _additional_ noise."

This is a serious problem and is on the radar of the medium wave
broadcast industry as well:

http://www.radioworld.com/article/afcce-symposium-examines-am-broadcast-band-woes/273098

One other typo:

"101 radials, many > 50 feet" should have been 101 radials, many < 50 feet.

73

Rob
K5UJ



On Thu, Dec 3, 2015 at 6:01 AM, TRM <mort.g2jl at ntlworld.com> wrote:
> 10 dB or more of noise ?  Mein Gott !
>
> Oh for such a quiet QTH !
>
>
> 73 - Mort,  G2JL

From wa5rtg at gmail.com  Thu Dec  3 10:02:02 2015
From: wa5rtg at gmail.com (Stan Stockton)
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2015 10:02:02 -0500
Subject: Topband: Vertical Antenna on a cliff above the Sea
In-Reply-To: <7ECA011B-A752-4414-9B90-1622AF54080E@robbwebbphotography.co.uk>
References: <7ECA011B-A752-4414-9B90-1622AF54080E@robbwebbphotography.co.uk>
Message-ID: <91B498CA-B014-441A-8B3D-0AF185BA0ACF@gmail.com>

Robb,

I assume you do not have a 130 foot support at the edge of the cliff.  Perhaps you have a loaded dipole?  If you think the cliff will block your signal in the most desired directions, you will have to do something different but if not, I would suggest you put two radials in line with each other with short supports every 25 feet or so above ground by 2-3 feet as near the edge as you dare go and hang the vertical element over the cliff.  It would look like an upside down vertical with a short feedline and surely a good performer at least in the directions that cliff is not blocking.  If the cliff blocks important directions I would go for a vertical as you have described with the shield side of the coax hanging down the side and the portion above the edge of the cliff vertical even if it had to be loaded.  40-50 feet vertical with two inverted V looking top loading wires to make it resonant on about 1830 will work well.

73...Stan, K5GO

> On Dec 3, 2015, at 7:07 AM, Robb Webb Proprietor of Robb Webb Photography <robb at robbwebbphotography.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Good day fellow Topband Experimenters. 
> When it comes to antennas I am a keen experimenter but technically a suck it and see merchant rather than a design pro so I ask for your expert opinions. 
> I live near a high cliff overlooking the sea. The cliff faces south, is a good 100ft high and is made up of mud and clay that over the years has been collapsing into the sea. I am considering mounting my Topband dipole as a vertical antenna above the cliff edge with the ground portion of the antenna going down the cliff edge below the vertical portion. I'm aware I may need to add radials but is there anything else I should need to consider. This is in preparation for the Boxing Day Stew Perry contest. 
> Thanks for your help. 
> Robb 
> G0URR 
> 
> 
> Robb Webb Photography
> Bringing Photography to life
> Mobile: 07891 575892
> 
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

From ashton.r.lee at hotmail.com  Thu Dec  3 11:11:08 2015
From: ashton.r.lee at hotmail.com (Ashton Lee)
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2015 09:11:08 -0700
Subject: Topband: Vertical Antenna on a cliff above the Sea
In-Reply-To: <91B498CA-B014-441A-8B3D-0AF185BA0ACF@gmail.com>
References: <7ECA011B-A752-4414-9B90-1622AF54080E@robbwebbphotography.co.uk>
	<91B498CA-B014-441A-8B3D-0AF185BA0ACF@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLU437-SMTP54789E1602A48240AF54FADE0D0@phx.gbl>

I have a small cabin and station on a mountain top. My experience is that horizontal antennas set right at a cliff face act as if they are much higher than their towers? to the point that real towers are pretty counter productive. Verticals act as if they are elevated 400 feet in the air (which id close to being on salt water? and in your case they would be). I have modeled but not built antennas that go down the slope. Personally I would do as I have done? put the best vertical you can at the cliff line and run your radials down the cliff. For higher bands just put antennas on 20-30 food supports right at the cliff face.


On Dec 3, 2015, at 8:02 AM, Stan Stockton <wa5rtg at gmail.com> wrote:

> Robb,
> 
> I assume you do not have a 130 foot support at the edge of the cliff.  Perhaps you have a loaded dipole?  If you think the cliff will block your signal in the most desired directions, you will have to do something different but if not, I would suggest you put two radials in line with each other with short supports every 25 feet or so above ground by 2-3 feet as near the edge as you dare go and hang the vertical element over the cliff.  It would look like an upside down vertical with a short feedline and surely a good performer at least in the directions that cliff is not blocking.  If the cliff blocks important directions I would go for a vertical as you have described with the shield side of the coax hanging down the side and the portion above the edge of the cliff vertical even if it had to be loaded.  40-50 feet vertical with two inverted V looking top loading wires to make it resonant on about 1830 will work well.
> 
> 73...Stan, K5GO
> 
>> On Dec 3, 2015, at 7:07 AM, Robb Webb Proprietor of Robb Webb Photography <robb at robbwebbphotography.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> Good day fellow Topband Experimenters. 
>> When it comes to antennas I am a keen experimenter but technically a suck it and see merchant rather than a design pro so I ask for your expert opinions. 
>> I live near a high cliff overlooking the sea. The cliff faces south, is a good 100ft high and is made up of mud and clay that over the years has been collapsing into the sea. I am considering mounting my Topband dipole as a vertical antenna above the cliff edge with the ground portion of the antenna going down the cliff edge below the vertical portion. I'm aware I may need to add radials but is there anything else I should need to consider. This is in preparation for the Boxing Day Stew Perry contest. 
>> Thanks for your help. 
>> Robb 
>> G0URR 
>> 
>> 
>> Robb Webb Photography
>> Bringing Photography to life
>> Mobile: 07891 575892
>> 
>> _________________
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


From jim at audiosystemsgroup.com  Thu Dec  3 12:30:41 2015
From: jim at audiosystemsgroup.com (Jim Brown)
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2015 09:30:41 -0800
Subject: Topband: Vertical Antenna on a cliff above the Sea
In-Reply-To: <7ECA011B-A752-4414-9B90-1622AF54080E@robbwebbphotography.co.uk>
References: <7ECA011B-A752-4414-9B90-1622AF54080E@robbwebbphotography.co.uk>
Message-ID: <56607C41.3000908@audiosystemsgroup.com>

On Thu,12/3/2015 4:07 AM, Robb Webb Proprietor of Robb Webb Photography 
wrote:
> I live near a high cliff overlooking the sea. The cliff faces south, is a good 100ft high and is made up of mud and clay that over the years has been collapsing into the sea.

N6BT, the excellent designer behind the original Force 12 antennas, has 
studied this extensively and gave a great presentation on the topic at 
Pacificon this fall. He showed that a vertical antenna at the edge of a 
bluff has a strong propagation advantage in the direction of the 
dropoff. The antenna still needs radials, just like any other vertical 
(other than a half wave).

73, Jim K9YC

From tshoppa at gmail.com  Thu Dec  3 14:09:04 2015
From: tshoppa at gmail.com (Tim Shoppa)
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2015 14:09:04 -0500
Subject: Topband: Tracking entities
In-Reply-To: <005601d12c55$d01822a0$704867e0$@comcast.net>
References: <005601d12c55$d01822a0$704867e0$@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <CAJ_qRvaQj7vDXvLq9XLpHP0eNLUGgf4aFE+kUGqU0N+ao_KzHg@mail.gmail.com>

The pattern-searching I think can help with the guys/entities that are on
160M more than one night a week. In the winter this'll get you to several
dozen entities on 160M just working the regulars.

I find reversebeacon.net to be most useful for looking at patterns of the
guys/entities regularly on 160M. Relying only on manually generated spots
is very very patchy. You can do mass downloads of reversebeacon.net data
for past 6 years, see http://reversebeacon.net/raw_data/

After you've worked the "regular DX" on 160M, I think you're left with
pericontest, contest, and DXpedition activity.

For tracking that stuff, subscribing to a DX newsletter or watching NG3K's
calendar can be key.

Tim N3QE

On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 11:32 AM, Steven R Daniel, D.D.S. <nn4t at comcast.net>
wrote:

> Good morning. I am searching for the most efficient way to monitor the
> activity of the countries I still need on 160 (other bands also). Currently
> I am going to DX Summit, putting on the 160 filter and searching for the
> prefix of the countries I still need. I then print the results, if any are
> found. Effective but time consuming. Is there a program out there which can
> sort data, such as that from DX Summit, by band and prefix, and create a
> spread sheet for the past 30 days (that is the limit of Summit) showing
> calls and times of activity for those stations? Any suggestions are most
> welcome! Best, Steve, NN4T
>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>

From k2av.guy at gmail.com  Thu Dec  3 14:21:07 2015
From: k2av.guy at gmail.com (Guy Olinger K2AV)
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2015 14:21:07 -0500
Subject: Topband: Vertical Antenna on a cliff above the Sea
In-Reply-To: <91B498CA-B014-441A-8B3D-0AF185BA0ACF@gmail.com>
References: <7ECA011B-A752-4414-9B90-1622AF54080E@robbwebbphotography.co.uk>
	<91B498CA-B014-441A-8B3D-0AF185BA0ACF@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANckpc1tNYFz+ASKPkTxOSV49tyFug=uhVVDJLoEXVbQSpM9hA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi, Robb

The antenna will still need some kind of counterpoise, one possibility
being radials. Radials are not the only form of counterpoise. An
alternative useful to this specific case is an FCP, short for 5/16 wave
single wire folded counterpoise. See w0uce.net/K2AVantennas.html if you are
not familiar.

An FCP, with a 66 foot linear footprint, parallel to the cliff edge and
elevated 8-10 feet will allow the vertical to do its cliff-side improved
performance without wiping out the cliff-side gains with a lossy
counterpoise heating dirt. Dropping the vertical down the cliff will still
keep it close to the cliff, with the same loss issues as a *very* low
dipole. If the location gives you a way to go *up* with the vertical, the
vertical over an FCP will do well.

We already have FCP installations of this general sort in the Caribbean
which have freed up the vertical aerial wire to do its ocean overlook
thing. These were a pleasant and significant improvement over the same
aerial wire over previous radial schemes made lossy by odd non-uniform
radial schemes forced on the installer by the non-flat and irregular
aspects of the otherwise superior location.

Without help, any wire carrying RF that is near to dirt, stone, etc will
induce lossy currents in same. A commercially efficient radial installation
is not possible for a cliff edge installation, because the radials hanging
over the edge would be out of balance with the horizontally oriented
radials.The efficiency of radials derives from being in the same plane,
full size, dense and uniform all around, as demonstrated by commercial AM
broadcast radials and their well-known, proven antenna system efficiency.

The point of an FCP is a folded design that produces RF fields that are
very close to net zero at nearby dirt and dielectric materials. An FCP does
not need the circular design for efficiency, instead deriving its
efficiency from the design of the folds in the single wire.

73, Guy K2AV


> > I live near a high cliff overlooking the sea. The cliff faces south, is
> a good 100ft high and is made up of mud and clay that over the years has
> been collapsing into the sea. I am considering mounting my Topband dipole
> as a vertical antenna above the cliff edge with the ground portion of the
> antenna going down the cliff edge below the vertical portion. I'm aware I
> may need to add radials but is there anything else I should need to
> consider. This is in preparation for the Boxing Day Stew Perry contest.
> > Thanks for your help.
> > Robb
> > G0URR
>

From Robert.Chortek at berliner.com  Thu Dec  3 14:52:23 2015
From: Robert.Chortek at berliner.com (Chortek, Robert L.)
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2015 19:52:23 +0000
Subject: Topband: FCP Antenna
Message-ID: <DM2PR0401MB1149869824CE6FA644BE044AE20D0@DM2PR0401MB1149.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>

Dear Fellow Topband Enthusiasts:


I'm hoping to get a little help here:


Q:  Will I see noticeable improvement if I change my radial system to a FCP and/or raise the base of my elevated vertical?


Background:  I have a 60 foot tall vertical I use on 80 meters, which I also base load for 160.  The antenna is fed at the base about 3 feet off the ground. The radial system consists of 12 gull wing radials (8 for 160 and 4 four 80) which slope up to the roof about 10 feet or so high, then make a 90 degree turn and then run roughly parallel to one another but fan out somewhat (6 and 6) The radials essentially form a U shape (base of the U slopes up to the roof and then the legs of the U are on the roof because that is what my lot allows.


1.    If I were to replace the radials with a FCP system (and raising the base of the antenna from 3 feet to 8 feet), would my transmitted signal improve to the point where anyone would notice?


2.    If I just raised the base of the antenna from 3 feet to 8 feet and kept the existing radial system would my transmitted signal improve to the point where anyone would notice?


As a frame of reference, I have worked 144 countries on 160 from a 1/4 acre city lot in San Jose, CA. and worked nearly 200 on 80, so I am having some success.   Just trying to figure out what I could do better.  Please, let's not talk about top loading vs. base loading because that is not my question (I understand the benefits of top loading vs. base or center loading, but have my reasons for using base loading - for now) .


Any help would be greatly appreciated.


73,


Bob/AA6VB

From art at nk8x.net  Thu Dec  3 15:15:04 2015
From: art at nk8x.net (Art Snapper)
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2015 15:15:04 -0500
Subject: Topband: FCP Antenna
In-Reply-To: <DM2PR0401MB1149869824CE6FA644BE044AE20D0@DM2PR0401MB1149.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>
References: <DM2PR0401MB1149869824CE6FA644BE044AE20D0@DM2PR0401MB1149.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAH6JzykCcNy_ob__tn+S6nHnpBHFA8yYNejjfFM4ymRkBOqh7g@mail.gmail.com>

It depends on how good your ground plane is.

W8JI has an interesting page about FCP vs radials.
http://www.w8ji.com/fcp_folded_counterpoise_system.htm

Perhaps you could measure the current on your existing radial system for
additional insight.

Art NK8X
?

On Thu, Dec 3, 2015 at 2:52 PM, Chortek, Robert L. <
Robert.Chortek at berliner.com> wrote:

> Dear Fellow Topband Enthusiasts:
>
>
> I'm hoping to get a little help here:
>
>
> Q:  Will I see noticeable improvement if I change my radial system to a
> FCP and/or raise the base of my elevated vertical?
>
>
> Background:  I have a 60 foot tall vertical I use on 80 meters, which I
> also base load for 160.  The antenna is fed at the base about 3 feet off
> the ground. The radial system consists of 12 gull wing radials (8 for 160
> and 4 four 80) which slope up to the roof about 10 feet or so high, then
> make a 90 degree turn and then run roughly parallel to one another but fan
> out somewhat (6 and 6) The radials essentially form a U shape (base of the
> U slopes up to the roof and then the legs of the U are on the roof because
> that is what my lot allows.
>
>
> 1.    If I were to replace the radials with a FCP system (and raising the
> base of the antenna from 3 feet to 8 feet), would my transmitted signal
> improve to the point where anyone would notice?
>
>
> 2.    If I just raised the base of the antenna from 3 feet to 8 feet and
> kept the existing radial system would my transmitted signal improve to the
> point where anyone would notice?
>
>
> As a frame of reference, I have worked 144 countries on 160 from a 1/4
> acre city lot in San Jose, CA. and worked nearly 200 on 80, so I am having
> some success.   Just trying to figure out what I could do better.  Please,
> let's not talk about top loading vs. base loading because that is not my
> question (I understand the benefits of top loading vs. base or center
> loading, but have my reasons for using base loading - for now) .
>
>
> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>
>
> 73,
>
>
> Bob/AA6VB
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>

From jim at audiosystemsgroup.com  Thu Dec  3 15:16:52 2015
From: jim at audiosystemsgroup.com (Jim Brown)
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2015 12:16:52 -0800
Subject: Topband: FCP Antenna
In-Reply-To: <DM2PR0401MB1149869824CE6FA644BE044AE20D0@DM2PR0401MB1149.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>
References: <DM2PR0401MB1149869824CE6FA644BE044AE20D0@DM2PR0401MB1149.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <5660A334.1070507@audiosystemsgroup.com>

On Thu,12/3/2015 11:52 AM, Chortek, Robert L. wrote:
> Will I see noticeable improvement if I change my radial system to a FCP and/or raise the base of my elevated vertical?

Bob,

Increasing the height of elevated radials on 160M from about 3 ft to 
about 16 ft is probably good for a few dB. It is a good thing to do. 
Increasing the number of radials is also a good thing. Don't expect huge 
differences, but serious topband operators will attest that as little as 
2dB can make the difference between a QSO and QRZ?

The definitive work on elevated radial systems has been done and 
published by Rudy Severns, N6LF. It's on his website, and is well worthy 
of study.

BTW -- I'm in the Santa Cruz Mountains, only about 35 miles S of you, 
and since moving here in 2006, have 135 confirmed on topband with 
antennas that are probably a lot better than yours. With 144 confirmed 
from a small city lot, you're doing quite well indeed!

73, Jim K9YC

From w7rf at radiodan.com  Thu Dec  3 15:25:35 2015
From: w7rf at radiodan.com (W7RF Dan)
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2015 13:25:35 -0700
Subject: Topband: 2 wl loop, worth the effort? (Rob Atkinson)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.7436.1449104077.3273.topband@contesting.com>
References: <mailman.7436.1449104077.3273.topband@contesting.com>
Message-ID: <5660A53F.1040905@radiodan.com>

I put up an 1100 foot horizontal loop about 6 years ago here in Fort 
Collins, CO. out in the clear in my back field held up by four 70 foot 
utility poles spaced about 280 feet apart. Fed by about 220 feet of 450 
ohm window line, back to a Palstar BT-1500A true balanced tuner. The 
loop wire is about 65 feet off the ground
I also have a full size vertical for 80M and an inverted L for 160 over 
a bed of 55 radials 90 feet long fed with 200 feet LMR400. See my QRZ page.

There are times when the loop is better or worse than the verticals for 
80 or 160 but the comments I have heard seem to go (partially) against 
what I have experienced with my loop.
One example: When FT5ZM was on the air, that DX-pedition is about as far 
away from my QTH as possible, yet I heard them for between 12-20 minutes 
every morning and worked them on 160M CW when they were FOUR S units out 
of the noise (on the 1100 foot loop), speaker copy, no headphones 
needed! The loop in this case was two S units better than my inverted L 
and quieter.

So, take that as my real world (not computer modeled, not guessed at 
because I don't have one) experience.
Is there some magic at my QTH? No, I don't think so. But as many details 
I could attend to were done correctly.

Is the loop worth the effort? Only you can choose for yourself. My 
effort was quite a bit of work with huge and heavy utility poles, 
drilling big holes, putting in 1 ton of concrete per pole, the pulley 
system to raise and lower the corners, the numerous times I have 
repaired the feedline connection (we have lots of wind here, up to 100 
mph) and all the little details that go along with it.

Was it worth it for me? Heck yes. I use it on 160-30M and have verticals 
for each of those bands as well for when the signal angle and direction 
or multiple lobes of the loop better suits one antenna over another.

73, Dan W7RF

On 12/2/2015 5:54 PM, topband-request at contesting.com wrote:
> 2 wl loop, worth the effort? (Rob Atkinson)


From Robert.Chortek at berliner.com  Fri Dec  4 09:15:59 2015
From: Robert.Chortek at berliner.com (Chortek, Robert L.)
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2015 14:15:59 +0000
Subject: Topband: FCP Antenna
In-Reply-To: <DM2PR0401MB1149869824CE6FA644BE044AE20D0@DM2PR0401MB1149.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>
References: <DM2PR0401MB1149869824CE6FA644BE044AE20D0@DM2PR0401MB1149.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <F5C1CBA3-4F1E-47A8-A89F-2604069318CF@berliner.com>

Thanks to all the helpful replies, but on and off list!

73,

Bob AA6VB

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 3, 2015, at 11:52 AM, Chortek, Robert L. <Robert.Chortek at berliner.com> wrote:
> 
> Dear Fellow Topband Enthusiasts:
> 
> 
> I'm hoping to get a little help here:
> 
> 
> Q:  Will I see noticeable improvement if I change my radial system to a FCP and/or raise the base of my elevated vertical?
> 
> 
> Background:  I have a 60 foot tall vertical I use on 80 meters, which I also base load for 160.  The antenna is fed at the base about 3 feet off the ground. The radial system consists of 12 gull wing radials (8 for 160 and 4 four 80) which slope up to the roof about 10 feet or so high, then make a 90 degree turn and then run roughly parallel to one another but fan out somewhat (6 and 6) The radials essentially form a U shape (base of the U slopes up to the roof and then the legs of the U are on the roof because that is what my lot allows.
> 
> 
> 1.    If I were to replace the radials with a FCP system (and raising the base of the antenna from 3 feet to 8 feet), would my transmitted signal improve to the point where anyone would notice?
> 
> 
> 2.    If I just raised the base of the antenna from 3 feet to 8 feet and kept the existing radial system would my transmitted signal improve to the point where anyone would notice?
> 
> 
> As a frame of reference, I have worked 144 countries on 160 from a 1/4 acre city lot in San Jose, CA. and worked nearly 200 on 80, so I am having some success.   Just trying to figure out what I could do better.  Please, let's not talk about top loading vs. base loading because that is not my question (I understand the benefits of top loading vs. base or center loading, but have my reasons for using base loading - for now) .
> 
> 
> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> 
> 73,
> 
> 
> Bob/AA6VB
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

From alex at kr1st.com  Fri Dec  4 09:53:52 2015
From: alex at kr1st.com (Alex)
Date: Fri, 04 Dec 2015 09:53:52 -0500
Subject: Topband: FCP Antenna
In-Reply-To: <DM2PR0401MB1149869824CE6FA644BE044AE20D0@DM2PR0401MB1149.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>
References: <DM2PR0401MB1149869824CE6FA644BE044AE20D0@DM2PR0401MB1149.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <c544879d0dd8f448aca4ae2104ae9036@webmail.webfaction.com>

Hi Bob,

Definitely read Tom's web page that Art pointed to. It will give you 
some idea what to expect from the FCP compared to other radial systems. 
 From your description of your current radial system and your successes, 
and from what I read on Tom's page, I would think it'd be better to not 
replace what you currently have with an FCP.

Incidentally, has anyone ever noticed how similar the FCP is to the 
inductively loaded counterpoise as described by Les Moxon, G6XN, in his 
book "HF Antennas for All Locations"? You can find a description and an 
image of it on pages 193 and 194 of the 1993/1995 edition of the book, 
or on pages 164 and 165 of the original 1982 edition.

73,
--Alex KR1ST


On 2015-12-03 14:52, Chortek, Robert L. wrote:
> Dear Fellow Topband Enthusiasts:
> 
> 
> I'm hoping to get a little help here:
> 
> 
> Q:  Will I see noticeable improvement if I change my radial system to
> a FCP and/or raise the base of my elevated vertical?


From alex at kr1st.com  Fri Dec  4 10:06:58 2015
From: alex at kr1st.com (Alex)
Date: Fri, 04 Dec 2015 10:06:58 -0500
Subject: Topband: adding another inverted l to the existing
In-Reply-To: <CAE8nip3z6kpCprujSj6hmzQs3o7KcsvTMee88w=L84Nsw5jhew@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2062752543.11602711.1449102760206.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<2062752543.11602711.1449102760206.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
	<CAE8nip3z6kpCprujSj6hmzQs3o7KcsvTMee88w=L84Nsw5jhew@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f279f10a05cb9bb6ad7068a18ff07c07@webmail.webfaction.com>


Hi Jimmy,

Perhaps another solution could be to add an 80m (coaxial) trap to the 
160m inverted L. I used this approach when I lived on a small city lot 
in SC with only a single useful tree. This allowed me to use the same 
supports, radial field and wire for 80 and 160 meters.

73,
--Alex KR1ST


On Wed, Dec 2, 2015 at 7:32 PM, james soto via Topband <
topband at contesting.com> wrote:

> Actually iam using an inverted L for 160 with few radials.I would like 
> to
> build another one for 75 meters band. my questio are:1. How close they
> could be? 2. could i use the same radials existing from the 160 
> inverted
> L?Thankskp2bh/jimmy


From k1fz at myfairpoint.net  Fri Dec  4 11:29:16 2015
From: k1fz at myfairpoint.net (=?utf-8?b?SzFGWi1CcnVjZQ==?=)
Date: Fri, 04 Dec 2015 11:29:16 -0500
Subject: Topband: Future propagation ?
Message-ID: <20151204112916.qa3xf7qcdisc00wg@webmail.myfairpoint.net>

?Watching NOVA on PBS last night.? Diving into Blue water "sink holes".? Found evidence indicated that iron rich sand from the very dry Sarah Desert had blown across the Atlantic to the Bahama Island region. 
(possibly?related to previous global warming period ?)
?
Wondering, if this takes place again, will this semi conductive? material give us a leg up on propagation to Africa, and beyond ? (;>))
?
73
Bruce-K1FZ
www.qsl.net/k1fz/beverage_antenna.html
?
?

From k1fz at myfairpoint.net  Fri Dec  4 11:53:11 2015
From: k1fz at myfairpoint.net (=?utf-8?b?SzFGWi1CcnVjZQ==?=)
Date: Fri, 04 Dec 2015 11:53:11 -0500
Subject: Topband:  Future propagation ?
Message-ID: <20151204115311.srlwaa0ogswwwo0g@webmail.myfairpoint.net>



Don't think it was the same one Mike. 
Divers showed a single ~ 2 inch thick band of Iron down in the? very?dangerous blue hole. 
?

On Fri, 04 Dec 2015 11:29:16 -0500, K1FZ-Bruce  wrote:

      ?Watching NOVA on PBS last night.? Diving into Blue water "sink holes".? Found evidence indicated that iron rich sand from the very dry Sarah Desert had blown across the Atlantic to the Bahama Island region. 
(possibly?related to previous global warming period ?)
?
Wondering, if this takes place again, will this semi conductive? material give us a leg up on propagation to Africa, and beyond ? (;>))
?
73
Bruce-K1FZ
www.qsl.net/k1fz/beverage_antenna.html
?
?
_________________

----- End forwarded message -----


From tshoppa at gmail.com  Fri Dec  4 12:20:11 2015
From: tshoppa at gmail.com (Tim Shoppa)
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2015 12:20:11 -0500
Subject: Topband: Future propagation ?
In-Reply-To: <20151204112916.qa3xf7qcdisc00wg@webmail.myfairpoint.net>
References: <20151204112916.qa3xf7qcdisc00wg@webmail.myfairpoint.net>
Message-ID: <CAJ_qRvYcGfYHX12skENwgaoKzt7NSP_cRdgCAGEMfFELYsPzOA@mail.gmail.com>

I'm waiting for the NOVA episode on how Howard Hughes will mine these
iron-rich nodules from the ocean with the world's largest seagoing vessel.

Tim N3QE

On Fri, Dec 4, 2015 at 11:29 AM, K1FZ-Bruce <k1fz at myfairpoint.net> wrote:

>  Watching NOVA on PBS last night.  Diving into Blue water "sink holes".
> Found evidence indicated that iron rich sand from the very dry Sarah Desert
> had blown across the Atlantic to the Bahama Island region.
> (possibly related to previous global warming period ?)
>
> Wondering, if this takes place again, will this semi conductive  material
> give us a leg up on propagation to Africa, and beyond ? (;>))
>
> 73
> Bruce-K1FZ
> www.qsl.net/k1fz/beverage_antenna.html
>
>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

From jim at audiosystemsgroup.com  Sat Dec  5 00:38:13 2015
From: jim at audiosystemsgroup.com (Jim Brown)
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2015 21:38:13 -0800
Subject: Topband: Topband QRP WAS
Message-ID: <56627845.8040401@audiosystemsgroup.com>

I'm still working on this, and need a handful of states. They are CT, 
VT, WV, KY, SC, andMS.  I'm 70 miles S of San Francisco, on the coast.

The best time to make these QSOs has been in the 90 or so minutes before 
local sunrise at the east coast end, and for perhaps 30-45 minutes after 
local sunrise. If you're calling CQ, I'll find you and do my best to 
make you hear me. :)

Thanks and 73, Jim K9YC

From sm2cew at telia.com  Sat Dec  5 05:05:23 2015
From: sm2cew at telia.com (Peter Sundberg)
Date: Sat, 05 Dec 2015 10:05:23 +0000
Subject: Topband: WAS 160
Message-ID: <20151205101232.E4F10AC8027@mx.contesting.com>

This morning, for the first time in a couple of years, I could 
hear/work a number of NA stations again with good signals.

This leads me to believe that I can finally complete WAS 160m this 
season by working someone in MS. Been stuck at 49 states for 4 years now...

Any suggestions as to who is active from MS on 160m with a good 
station? I am located at Lat 65.4N so geomagnetic disturbances are a 
big issue. The bigger the station is at the other end, the better.

73
Peter SM2CEW







From co8dm at frcuba.co.cu  Sat Dec  5 08:29:54 2015
From: co8dm at frcuba.co.cu (Douglas Ruz (CO8DM))
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2015 08:29:54 -0500
Subject: Topband: WAS 160
References: <20151205101232.E4F10AC8027@mx.contesting.com>
Message-ID: <4127C69FCD0B45F48777270EF04D8C92@Casa>

I heard N4OGW from MS last night...

73....Douglas, CO8DM

"No creo que haya alguna emoci?n m?s intensa para un inventor que ver alguna 
de sus creaciones funcionando. Esa emoci?n hace que uno se olvide de comer, 
de dormir, de todo." - Nikola Tesla
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Peter Sundberg" <sm2cew at telia.com>
To: <topband at contesting.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2015 5:05 AM
Subject: Topband: WAS 160


> This morning, for the first time in a couple of years, I could hear/work a 
> number of NA stations again with good signals.
>
> This leads me to believe that I can finally complete WAS 160m this season 
> by working someone in MS. Been stuck at 49 states for 4 years now...
>
> Any suggestions as to who is active from MS on 160m with a good station? I 
> am located at Lat 65.4N so geomagnetic disturbances are a big issue. The 
> bigger the station is at the other end, the better.
>
> 73
> Peter SM2CEW
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband 


From w5jr.lists at gmail.com  Sat Dec  5 10:49:44 2015
From: w5jr.lists at gmail.com (Mike - W5JR)
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2015 10:49:44 -0500
Subject: Topband: WAS 160
In-Reply-To: <4127C69FCD0B45F48777270EF04D8C92@Casa>
References: <20151205101232.E4F10AC8027@mx.contesting.com>
	<4127C69FCD0B45F48777270EF04D8C92@Casa>
Message-ID: <B99BA2D2-E08B-49A4-8EAA-AD6044ED5242@gmail.com>

WQ5L has a very loud signal into GA from MS and he was on overnight during night 1 of the ARRL 160. For me, sigs from EU were not as strong as usual last night. 

tnx
Mike / W5JR
Alpharetta GA

> On Dec 5, 2015, at 8:29 AM, Douglas Ruz (CO8DM) <co8dm at frcuba.co.cu> wrote:
> 
> I heard N4OGW from MS last night...
> 
> 73....Douglas, CO8DM
> 
> "No creo que haya alguna emoci?n m?s intensa para un inventor que ver alguna de sus creaciones funcionando. Esa emoci?n hace que uno se olvide de comer, de dormir, de todo." - Nikola Tesla
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Sundberg" <sm2cew at telia.com>
> To: <topband at contesting.com>
> Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2015 5:05 AM
> Subject: Topband: WAS 160
> 
> 
>> This morning, for the first time in a couple of years, I could hear/work a number of NA stations again with good signals.
>> 
>> This leads me to believe that I can finally complete WAS 160m this season by working someone in MS. Been stuck at 49 states for 4 years now...
>> 
>> Any suggestions as to who is active from MS on 160m with a good station? I am located at Lat 65.4N so geomagnetic disturbances are a big issue. The bigger the station is at the other end, the better.
>> 
>> 73
>> Peter SM2CEW
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _________________
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> 
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

From k2owr at comcast.net  Sat Dec  5 11:01:46 2015
From: k2owr at comcast.net (K4OWR)
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2015 11:01:46 -0500
Subject: Topband: WAS 160
In-Reply-To: <B99BA2D2-E08B-49A4-8EAA-AD6044ED5242@gmail.com>
References: <20151205101232.E4F10AC8027@mx.contesting.com>
	<4127C69FCD0B45F48777270EF04D8C92@Casa>
	<B99BA2D2-E08B-49A4-8EAA-AD6044ED5242@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56630A6A.8050202@comcast.net>

:::: I'm new to this group, but have been a very active ham for all 58 
years licensed. I've become very interested in 160 especially since the 
other bands cndx are so terrible.
I have lots of land to play antennas with (15 flat acres) and currently 
have a full size dipole at 90', an inverted L with vertical leg almost 
100', and two 850' beverages; plus a 100' tower. I'm also running full 
power.

I have had great success contesting on this band (avg 1000qs) but not 
really much DX. My country total is about 15. I'm reading here about 
some people working DX and wondering about when I need to get on to hear 
this stuff. I see the word "overnight" but wondering around what time is 
best. I'm in east TN.
Bill K4OWR

On 12/5/2015 10:49 AM, Mike - W5JR wrote:
> WQ5L has a very loud signal into GA from MS and he was on overnight during night 1 of the ARRL 160. For me, sigs from EU were not as strong as usual last night.
>
> tnx
> Mike / W5JR
> Alpharetta GA
>
>> On Dec 5, 2015, at 8:29 AM, Douglas Ruz (CO8DM) <co8dm at frcuba.co.cu> wrote:
>>
>> I heard N4OGW from MS last night...
>>
>> 73....Douglas, CO8DM
>>
>> "No creo que haya alguna emoci?n m?s intensa para un inventor que ver alguna de sus creaciones funcionando. Esa emoci?n hace que uno se olvide de comer, de dormir, de todo." - Nikola Tesla
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Sundberg" <sm2cew at telia.com>
>> To: <topband at contesting.com>
>> Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2015 5:05 AM
>> Subject: Topband: WAS 160
>>
>>
>>> This morning, for the first time in a couple of years, I could hear/work a number of NA stations again with good signals.
>>>
>>> This leads me to believe that I can finally complete WAS 160m this season by working someone in MS. Been stuck at 49 states for 4 years now...
>>>
>>> Any suggestions as to who is active from MS on 160m with a good station? I am located at Lat 65.4N so geomagnetic disturbances are a big issue. The bigger the station is at the other end, the better.
>>>
>>> 73
>>> Peter SM2CEW
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _________________
>>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>> _________________
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


From w8uvz at voyager.net  Sat Dec  5 11:02:53 2015
From: w8uvz at voyager.net (George)
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2015 11:02:53 -0500
Subject: Topband: WAS 160
In-Reply-To: <4127C69FCD0B45F48777270EF04D8C92@Casa>
References: <20151205101232.E4F10AC8027@mx.contesting.com>
	<4127C69FCD0B45F48777270EF04D8C92@Casa>
Message-ID: <EB137532628E4B31BDAF35CF6420848E@none1HP>

Hi Peter

Mal, W5XX in Mississippi, used to be active in low band contests.  Haven't 
heard him in a while but be worth a quick email via info in QRZ.com, to 
determine if he could give you a sked.

Mal always had a big signal on top band.

GL

73  George  W8UVZ




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Peter Sundberg" <sm2cew at telia.com>
To: <topband at contesting.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2015 5:05 AM
Subject: Topband: WAS 160


> This morning, for the first time in a couple of years, I could hear/work a 
> number of NA stations again with good signals.
>
> This leads me to believe that I can finally complete WAS 160m this season 
> by working someone in MS. Been stuck at 49 states for 4 years now...
>
> Any suggestions as to who is active from MS on 160m with a good station? I 
> am located at Lat 65.4N so geomagnetic disturbances are a big issue. The 
> bigger the station is at the other end, the better.
>
> 73
> Peter SM2CEW
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

_________________
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband 


From w5jr.lists at gmail.com  Sat Dec  5 11:20:45 2015
From: w5jr.lists at gmail.com (Mike - W5JR)
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2015 11:20:45 -0500
Subject: Topband: WAS 160
In-Reply-To: <56630A6A.8050202@comcast.net>
References: <20151205101232.E4F10AC8027@mx.contesting.com>
	<4127C69FCD0B45F48777270EF04D8C92@Casa>
	<B99BA2D2-E08B-49A4-8EAA-AD6044ED5242@gmail.com>
	<56630A6A.8050202@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <FB04FF85-ADD1-44F9-B043-D6174D83BEAE@gmail.com>

For me, EU was/is best before their sunrise. The Pacific before/at my sunrise. South America in the spring or fall. There are many countries to be had in the CQ160 next Jan. Getting to 100 turned out to be pretty easy. Getting to 150 and beyond is taking much more focus. 

I did 115 with just an Inv L over 16 radials. 1kw. No receiving antennas. Was at around 95 for a couple of years until several DXpeditions pushed me over the magic number. 

tnx
Mike / W5JR
Alpharetta GA

> On Dec 5, 2015, at 11:01 AM, K4OWR <k2owr at comcast.net> wrote:
> 
> :::: I'm new to this group, but have been a very active ham for all 58 years licensed. I've become very interested in 160 especially since the other bands cndx are so terrible.
> I have lots of land to play antennas with (15 flat acres) and currently have a full size dipole at 90', an inverted L with vertical leg almost 100', and two 850' beverages; plus a 100' tower. I'm also running full power.
> 
> I have had great success contesting on this band (avg 1000qs) but not really much DX. My country total is about 15. I'm reading here about some people working DX and wondering about when I need to get on to hear this stuff. I see the word "overnight" but wondering around what time is best. I'm in east TN.
> Bill K4OWR
> 
>> On 12/5/2015 10:49 AM, Mike - W5JR wrote:
>> WQ5L has a very loud signal into GA from MS and he was on overnight during night 1 of the ARRL 160. For me, sigs from EU were not as strong as usual last night.
>> 
>> tnx
>> Mike / W5JR
>> Alpharetta GA
>> 
>>> On Dec 5, 2015, at 8:29 AM, Douglas Ruz (CO8DM) <co8dm at frcuba.co.cu> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I heard N4OGW from MS last night...
>>> 
>>> 73....Douglas, CO8DM
>>> 
>>> "No creo que haya alguna emoci?n m?s intensa para un inventor que ver alguna de sus creaciones funcionando. Esa emoci?n hace que uno se olvide de comer, de dormir, de todo." - Nikola Tesla
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Sundberg" <sm2cew at telia.com>
>>> To: <topband at contesting.com>
>>> Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2015 5:05 AM
>>> Subject: Topband: WAS 160
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> This morning, for the first time in a couple of years, I could hear/work a number of NA stations again with good signals.
>>>> 
>>>> This leads me to believe that I can finally complete WAS 160m this season by working someone in MS. Been stuck at 49 states for 4 years now...
>>>> 
>>>> Any suggestions as to who is active from MS on 160m with a good station? I am located at Lat 65.4N so geomagnetic disturbances are a big issue. The bigger the station is at the other end, the better.
>>>> 
>>>> 73
>>>> Peter SM2CEW
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _________________
>>>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>> _________________
>>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>> _________________
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> 
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

From richard at karlquist.com  Sat Dec  5 11:40:29 2015
From: richard at karlquist.com (Richard (Rick) Karlquist)
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2015 08:40:29 -0800
Subject: Topband: Topband QRP WAS
In-Reply-To: <56627845.8040401@audiosystemsgroup.com>
References: <56627845.8040401@audiosystemsgroup.com>
Message-ID: <5663137D.8030802@karlquist.com>


On 12/4/2015 9:38 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
> I'm still working on this, and need a handful of states. They are CT,
> VT, WV, KY, SC, andMS.  I'm 70 miles S of San Francisco, on the coast.
>
> The best time to make these QSOs has been in the 90 or so minutes before
> local sunrise at the east coast end, and for perhaps 30-45 minutes after
> local sunrise. If you're calling CQ, I'll find you and do my best to
> make you hear me. :)
>
> Thanks and 73, Jim K9YC

Last night, I worked several CT, KY, and SC, and at least 1 MS.
However, these were before 0730Z. I too got up at 1130Z and I
think I only worked KY on your list this morning. OTOH, JA's
were booming in this morning, especially JA3YBK who can be
counted on to be the strongest JA, yet I didn't hear him
CQ'ing on 1811 as usual.  He called me.

Activity seemed to be down, so I didn't have a lot of trouble
getting a run frequency (even running low power) in the
"dime quarter" band (1810-1825) where JA's hang out. In the
past, this has virtually been a combat zone.

Still need (for the contest) WV and VT (always tough to find
and work from here).

Rick N6RK


From jim at audiosystemsgroup.com  Sat Dec  5 12:50:24 2015
From: jim at audiosystemsgroup.com (Jim Brown)
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2015 09:50:24 -0800
Subject: Topband: Topband QRP WAS
In-Reply-To: <5663137D.8030802@karlquist.com>
References: <56627845.8040401@audiosystemsgroup.com>
	<5663137D.8030802@karlquist.com>
Message-ID: <566323E0.1000502@audiosystemsgroup.com>

On Sat,12/5/2015 8:40 AM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist wrote:
> Last night, I worked several CT, KY, and SC, and at least 1 MS. 

I found condx pretty stinko last night to the east coast. Lots of W1 
spotted, none heard. K8JQ was heard, but not loud. The very dependable 
NO3M and WD5R were not very loud and didn't hear me. Let's hope tonight 
is better.

Yes, N4OGW and WQ5L are good ops with a decent signal from MS, but both 
seem to go to bed too early to work from W6. :)


On Sat,12/5/2015 8:01 AM, K4OWR wrote:
> I have had great success contesting on this band (avg 1000qs) but not 
> really much DX. My country total is about 15. I'm reading here about 
> some people working DX and wondering about when I need to get on to 
> hear this stuff. I see the word "overnight" but wondering around what 
> time is best. I'm in east TN. 

160M is an all night band, and 160 contests are all night contests. 
Conditions often vary quite a lot through the night and from one night 
to another.  From the beginning of the contest (around 5 pm EST) work 
EU, AF, SA, and NA until local sunrise at the DX QTH. Through the night 
and until about 30 minutes after your own sunrise, work west.  Signals 
to the west will peak at their sunset and again in the hour or so around 
your sunrise.  Beverages and other dedicated RX antennas will help pull 
out weaker signals.

In addition to all of that, with legal limit power and decent vertical 
antenna, I can work 800 miles in the daylight hours.

73, Jim K9YC Santa Cruz, CA

From k2owr at comcast.net  Sat Dec  5 13:14:37 2015
From: k2owr at comcast.net (K4OWR)
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2015 13:14:37 -0500
Subject: Topband: Topband QRP WAS
In-Reply-To: <566323E0.1000502@audiosystemsgroup.com>
References: <56627845.8040401@audiosystemsgroup.com>
	<5663137D.8030802@karlquist.com>
	<566323E0.1000502@audiosystemsgroup.com>
Message-ID: <5663298D.2020608@comcast.net>

:::: Although I can work CW, I don't usually. It's not clear what mode 
you guys use most.  I often go up to the shack around 9pm and listen 
around for an hour or so, but rarely hear much activity other then the 
local obnoxious ragchewers who will complain to me that I'm 
"splattering" on their conversation 10 khz away. I always find that they 
are using their noiseblankers out of habit and don't seem to comprehend 
what this does to their selectivity....sigh. Anyway, I would appreciate 
hearing what Fx most of you find best for DX, and is phone only 
hampering me?
BILL K4OWR



On 12/5/2015 12:50 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
> On Sat,12/5/2015 8:40 AM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist wrote:
>> Last night, I worked several CT, KY, and SC, and at least 1 MS. 
>
> I found condx pretty stinko last night to the east coast. Lots of W1 
> spotted, none heard. K8JQ was heard, but not loud. The very dependable 
> NO3M and WD5R were not very loud and didn't hear me. Let's hope 
> tonight is better.
>
> Yes, N4OGW and WQ5L are good ops with a decent signal from MS, but 
> both seem to go to bed too early to work from W6. :)
>
>
> On Sat,12/5/2015 8:01 AM, K4OWR wrote:
>> I have had great success contesting on this band (avg 1000qs) but not 
>> really much DX. My country total is about 15. I'm reading here about 
>> some people working DX and wondering about when I need to get on to 
>> hear this stuff. I see the word "overnight" but wondering around what 
>> time is best. I'm in east TN. 
>
> 160M is an all night band, and 160 contests are all night contests. 
> Conditions often vary quite a lot through the night and from one night 
> to another.  From the beginning of the contest (around 5 pm EST) work 
> EU, AF, SA, and NA until local sunrise at the DX QTH. Through the 
> night and until about 30 minutes after your own sunrise, work west.  
> Signals to the west will peak at their sunset and again in the hour or 
> so around your sunrise. Beverages and other dedicated RX antennas will 
> help pull out weaker signals.
>
> In addition to all of that, with legal limit power and decent vertical 
> antenna, I can work 800 miles in the daylight hours.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC Santa Cruz, CA
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>


From art at nk8x.net  Sat Dec  5 13:20:23 2015
From: art at nk8x.net (Art Snapper)
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2015 13:20:23 -0500
Subject: Topband: Topband QRP WAS
In-Reply-To: <5663298D.2020608@comcast.net>
References: <56627845.8040401@audiosystemsgroup.com>
	<5663137D.8030802@karlquist.com>
	<566323E0.1000502@audiosystemsgroup.com> <5663298D.2020608@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <CAH6JzymKDf=z44AzXoWRGiijnyqW6F0w2dqV36SiQUnVT1Q62w@mail.gmail.com>

I'm a relative newbie on 160 (about 5 years) but it seems most DX hangs out
on CW between 1820 and 1835. The situation may be different during
contests, due to channel availability.

73
de NK8X
?

On Sat, Dec 5, 2015 at 1:14 PM, K4OWR <k2owr at comcast.net> wrote:

> :::: Although I can work CW, I don't usually. It's not clear what mode you
> guys use most.  I often go up to the shack around 9pm and listen around for
> an hour or so, but rarely hear much activity other then the local obnoxious
> ragchewers who will complain to me that I'm "splattering" on their
> conversation 10 khz away. I always find that they are using their
> noiseblankers out of habit and don't seem to comprehend what this does to
> their selectivity....sigh. Anyway, I would appreciate hearing what Fx most
> of you find best for DX, and is phone only hampering me?
> BILL K4OWR
>
>
>
>
> On 12/5/2015 12:50 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
>
>> On Sat,12/5/2015 8:40 AM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist wrote:
>>
>>> Last night, I worked several CT, KY, and SC, and at least 1 MS.
>>>
>>
>> I found condx pretty stinko last night to the east coast. Lots of W1
>> spotted, none heard. K8JQ was heard, but not loud. The very dependable NO3M
>> and WD5R were not very loud and didn't hear me. Let's hope tonight is
>> better.
>>
>> Yes, N4OGW and WQ5L are good ops with a decent signal from MS, but both
>> seem to go to bed too early to work from W6. :)
>>
>>
>> On Sat,12/5/2015 8:01 AM, K4OWR wrote:
>>
>>> I have had great success contesting on this band (avg 1000qs) but not
>>> really much DX. My country total is about 15. I'm reading here about some
>>> people working DX and wondering about when I need to get on to hear this
>>> stuff. I see the word "overnight" but wondering around what time is best.
>>> I'm in east TN.
>>>
>>
>> 160M is an all night band, and 160 contests are all night contests.
>> Conditions often vary quite a lot through the night and from one night to
>> another.  From the beginning of the contest (around 5 pm EST) work EU, AF,
>> SA, and NA until local sunrise at the DX QTH. Through the night and until
>> about 30 minutes after your own sunrise, work west.  Signals to the west
>> will peak at their sunset and again in the hour or so around your sunrise.
>> Beverages and other dedicated RX antennas will help pull out weaker signals.
>>
>> In addition to all of that, with legal limit power and decent vertical
>> antenna, I can work 800 miles in the daylight hours.
>>
>> 73, Jim K9YC Santa Cruz, CA
>> _________________
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>
>>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>

From jim at audiosystemsgroup.com  Sat Dec  5 13:30:26 2015
From: jim at audiosystemsgroup.com (Jim Brown)
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2015 10:30:26 -0800
Subject: Topband: Topband QRP WAS
In-Reply-To: <5663298D.2020608@comcast.net>
References: <56627845.8040401@audiosystemsgroup.com>
	<5663137D.8030802@karlquist.com>
	<566323E0.1000502@audiosystemsgroup.com>
	<5663298D.2020608@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <56632D42.4090706@audiosystemsgroup.com>

On Sat,12/5/2015 10:14 AM, K4OWR wrote:
> Anyway, I would appreciate hearing what Fx most of you find best for 
> DX, and is phone only hampering me? 

160M is a CW band for anything but mindless ragchewing.

73, Jim K9YC

From richard at karlquist.com  Sat Dec  5 13:38:10 2015
From: richard at karlquist.com (Richard (Rick) Karlquist)
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2015 10:38:10 -0800
Subject: Topband: Topband QRP WAS
In-Reply-To: <566323E0.1000502@audiosystemsgroup.com>
References: <56627845.8040401@audiosystemsgroup.com>
	<5663137D.8030802@karlquist.com>
	<566323E0.1000502@audiosystemsgroup.com>
Message-ID: <56632F12.7010207@karlquist.com>



On 12/5/2015 9:50 AM, Jim Brown wrote:

> In addition to all of that, with legal limit power and decent vertical
> antenna, I can work 800 miles in the daylight hours.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC Santa Cruz, CA

I worked a station in ENY in the contest yesterday at 3:30 PM local
time, well over an hour before sunset.

Rick N6RK

From richard at karlquist.com  Sat Dec  5 13:43:08 2015
From: richard at karlquist.com (Richard (Rick) Karlquist)
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2015 10:43:08 -0800
Subject: Topband: Topband QRP WAS
In-Reply-To: <56632D42.4090706@audiosystemsgroup.com>
References: <56627845.8040401@audiosystemsgroup.com>
	<5663137D.8030802@karlquist.com>
	<566323E0.1000502@audiosystemsgroup.com>
	<5663298D.2020608@comcast.net> <56632D42.4090706@audiosystemsgroup.com>
Message-ID: <5663303C.40500@karlquist.com>

On 12/5/2015 10:30 AM, Jim Brown wrote:
> 160M is a CW band for anything but mindless ragchewing.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
> _________________

During the sunspot minimum a few years ago, I
worked European Russia on 160 phone.

Rick N6RK

From jim at audiosystemsgroup.com  Sat Dec  5 13:52:53 2015
From: jim at audiosystemsgroup.com (Jim Brown)
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2015 10:52:53 -0800
Subject: Topband: Topband QRP WAS
In-Reply-To: <56632F12.7010207@karlquist.com>
References: <56627845.8040401@audiosystemsgroup.com>
	<5663137D.8030802@karlquist.com>
	<566323E0.1000502@audiosystemsgroup.com>
	<56632F12.7010207@karlquist.com>
Message-ID: <56633285.6090005@audiosystemsgroup.com>

On Sat,12/5/2015 10:38 AM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist wrote:
> I worked a station in ENY in the contest yesterday at 3:30 PM local
> time, well over an hour before sunset. 

Yes. Stations in w8, W9, and VE3 are often loud and clear during these 
hours, but are mostly using RX antennas aimed at EU, so are very 
difficult to work. I once worked a VE3 and/or a W9 in this time frame, 
but only one, and I've not bothered trying again. This was with legal 
limit on my end, not QRP. :)

73, Jim K9YC



From DL1AMQ at web.de  Sat Dec  5 14:13:37 2015
From: DL1AMQ at web.de (DL1AMQ at web.de)
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2015 20:13:37 +0100
Subject: Topband: Topband QRP WAS
In-Reply-To: <56632D42.4090706@audiosystemsgroup.com>
References: <56627845.8040401@audiosystemsgroup.com>
	<5663137D.8030802@karlquist.com>
	<566323E0.1000502@audiosystemsgroup.com>
	<5663298D.2020608@comcast.net>, <56632D42.4090706@audiosystemsgroup.com>
Message-ID: <trinity-47f0dc5f-a9cf-4c87-9902-93f8c0691140-1449342817296@3capp-webde-bap30>

During last few days/weeks I see a dramatic difference of DXpropagation in 80m vs. 160m band. On 80m I worked US states CA and WA during US SS contest while no one US station can be really heard on TopBand.
This difference appears in a gap of frequency of about 1,7 Mhz only.

I assume, the smaller the gap the smaller the difference in DXpropagation.
My question is: why all intercontinental DX happens at the band edge of 1.8 MHz instead of the "faster" band edge at 2.0 MHz to get closer to the "good DXprop range" ?

One possible reason I see is DX window to JA.
I would like to check DXprop between US <=> EU at TopBands both edges to compare in practice. 
Any comments ?

73 de Thomas, DL1AMQ


> Gesendet: Samstag, 05. Dezember 2015 um 19:30 Uhr
> Von: "Jim Brown" <jim at audiosystemsgroup.com>
> An: topband at contesting.com
> Betreff: Re: Topband: Topband QRP WAS
>
> On Sat,12/5/2015 10:14 AM, K4OWR wrote:
> > Anyway, I would appreciate hearing what Fx most of you find best for 
> > DX, and is phone only hampering me? 
> 
> 160M is a CW band for anything but mindless ragchewing.
> 
> 73, Jim K9YC
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> 

From mlunday at nc.rr.com  Sat Dec  5 14:14:28 2015
From: mlunday at nc.rr.com (Mark Lunday)
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2015 14:14:28 -0500
Subject: Topband: DX on 160, was: Topband QRP WAS
In-Reply-To: <5663298D.2020608@comcast.net>
References: <56627845.8040401@audiosystemsgroup.com>	<5663137D.8030802@karlquist.com>	<566323E0.1000502@audiosystemsgroup.com>
	<5663298D.2020608@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <001301d12f91$29ceff10$7d6cfd30$@rr.com>

Bill, all of my DX is on CW.  Anywhere from 1820 to 1840. In fact, the only
DX I have on SSB on 160 is a handful of Carib stations.  Because of the
challenging conditions of TopBand, CW for me is the way to go.  Some folks
have a lot of luck with WSJT or other digital modes...I have not tried that
yet as the DX I am chasing is not common and is not on digital.

 Check out ON4KST chat room for real-time info.

Mark Lunday, WD4ELG
Greensboro, NC  FM06be
wd4elg at arrl.net
http://wd4elg.blogspot.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of K4OWR
Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2015 1:15 PM
To: topband at contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Topband QRP WAS

:::: Although I can work CW, I don't usually. It's not clear what mode you
guys use most.  I often go up to the shack around 9pm and listen around for
an hour or so, but rarely hear much activity other then the local obnoxious
ragchewers who will complain to me that I'm "splattering" on their
conversation 10 khz away. I always find that they are using their
noiseblankers out of habit and don't seem to comprehend what this does to
their selectivity....sigh. Anyway, I would appreciate hearing what Fx most
of you find best for DX, and is phone only hampering me?
BILL K4OWR



From k2owr at comcast.net  Sat Dec  5 14:40:42 2015
From: k2owr at comcast.net (K4OWR)
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2015 14:40:42 -0500
Subject: Topband: DX on 160, was: Topband QRP WAS
In-Reply-To: <001301d12f91$29ceff10$7d6cfd30$@rr.com>
References: <56627845.8040401@audiosystemsgroup.com>
	<5663137D.8030802@karlquist.com>
	<566323E0.1000502@audiosystemsgroup.com>
	<5663298D.2020608@comcast.net> <001301d12f91$29ceff10$7d6cfd30$@rr.com>
Message-ID: <56633DBA.90606@comcast.net>

:::: Ok. That explains my experience in so few DX contacts. I'll change 
that immediately; although I do enjoy ragchewing with other similar 
interest hams. I find CW cumbersome for that since it breaks down simple 
conversation into one letter at a time; but the weak signal benefits are 
huge.
Now all I have to do is commit to going up to the shack (about 150' up 
the hill) in the relative dark and cold much later in the evening, or as 
you guys recommend before sunrise.
I do not leave the heat on up there so it will be very cold here on a 
Tennessee morning :-)
In the meantime I look forward to working you guys and will fire up 
between 1820-1840 from now on. My antennas are set for 1:1 swr at about 
1860 but are fairly broad for some lucky reason. I do not use antenna 
tuners, especially on 160 where I find them to be a fire hazard with my 
big amp :-))))
Thanx for all the terrific info!!
BILL K4OWR

On 12/5/2015 2:14 PM, Mark Lunday wrote:
> Bill, all of my DX is on CW.  Anywhere from 1820 to 1840. In fact, the only
> DX I have on SSB on 160 is a handful of Carib stations.  Because of the
> challenging conditions of TopBand, CW for me is the way to go.  Some folks
> have a lot of luck with WSJT or other digital modes...I have not tried that
> yet as the DX I am chasing is not common and is not on digital.
>
>   Check out ON4KST chat room for real-time info.
>
> Mark Lunday, WD4ELG
> Greensboro, NC  FM06be
> wd4elg at arrl.net
> http://wd4elg.blogspot.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of K4OWR
> Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2015 1:15 PM
> To: topband at contesting.com
> Subject: Re: Topband: Topband QRP WAS
>
> :::: Although I can work CW, I don't usually. It's not clear what mode you
> guys use most.  I often go up to the shack around 9pm and listen around for
> an hour or so, but rarely hear much activity other then the local obnoxious
> ragchewers who will complain to me that I'm "splattering" on their
> conversation 10 khz away. I always find that they are using their
> noiseblankers out of habit and don't seem to comprehend what this does to
> their selectivity....sigh. Anyway, I would appreciate hearing what Fx most
> of you find best for DX, and is phone only hampering me?
> BILL K4OWR
>
>
>


From tshoppa at gmail.com  Sat Dec  5 14:49:47 2015
From: tshoppa at gmail.com (Tim Shoppa)
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2015 14:49:47 -0500
Subject: Topband: Topband QRP WAS
In-Reply-To: <566323E0.1000502@audiosystemsgroup.com>
References: <56627845.8040401@audiosystemsgroup.com>
	<5663137D.8030802@karlquist.com>
	<566323E0.1000502@audiosystemsgroup.com>
Message-ID: <CAJ_qRvaQrHKbfBq+M_SSm3m6LpG-93U+vypSX=msde+OCJ+DZg@mail.gmail.com>

Jim, since you bring up QRP on 160M, I would like to promote the upcoming
NAQCC 160M QRP sprint. 0130Z-0330Z January 13 2016 (which I think means
it's our Tuesday night). http://naqcc.info/sprint201601_160.html

I usually participate and enjoy it, but do not always send in my log due to
the required obtuse log format.

Tim N3QE

On Sat, Dec 5, 2015 at 12:50 PM, Jim Brown <jim at audiosystemsgroup.com>
wrote:

> On Sat,12/5/2015 8:40 AM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist wrote:
>
>> Last night, I worked several CT, KY, and SC, and at least 1 MS.
>>
>
> I found condx pretty stinko last night to the east coast. Lots of W1
> spotted, none heard. K8JQ was heard, but not loud. The very dependable NO3M
> and WD5R were not very loud and didn't hear me. Let's hope tonight is
> better.
>
> Yes, N4OGW and WQ5L are good ops with a decent signal from MS, but both
> seem to go to bed too early to work from W6. :)
>
>
> On Sat,12/5/2015 8:01 AM, K4OWR wrote:
>
>> I have had great success contesting on this band (avg 1000qs) but not
>> really much DX. My country total is about 15. I'm reading here about some
>> people working DX and wondering about when I need to get on to hear this
>> stuff. I see the word "overnight" but wondering around what time is best.
>> I'm in east TN.
>>
>
> 160M is an all night band, and 160 contests are all night contests.
> Conditions often vary quite a lot through the night and from one night to
> another.  From the beginning of the contest (around 5 pm EST) work EU, AF,
> SA, and NA until local sunrise at the DX QTH. Through the night and until
> about 30 minutes after your own sunrise, work west.  Signals to the west
> will peak at their sunset and again in the hour or so around your sunrise.
> Beverages and other dedicated RX antennas will help pull out weaker signals.
>
> In addition to all of that, with legal limit power and decent vertical
> antenna, I can work 800 miles in the daylight hours.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC Santa Cruz, CA
>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>

From wb6rse1 at mac.com  Sat Dec  5 14:56:18 2015
From: wb6rse1 at mac.com (wb6rse1 at mac.com)
Date: Sat, 05 Dec 2015 11:56:18 -0800
Subject: Topband: Shunt Feed Cage
Message-ID: <A597252F-2288-4685-A26E-CD3A391D50EB@mac.com>

I shunt feed my 54 ft free standing 3 section crank-up tower for 160m and 80m, remote relay band switchable omega match. 2:1 SWR bandwidth is around 40+ kc on 160 and about 20 kc on 80.

3/8? solid gamma rod, 15? from a tower leg attached at about the 22 ft level, the top of the bottom section of the tower. These parameters will not change nor will the fact that I have no radials since there is no place for them on my small city lot. There are two 8 ft ground rods at the tower base.

If I were to put a cage of 2, 3 or 4 wires around the gamma rod, each spaced 3 inches or so from the rod, could I expect to see a significant improvement in bandwidth on 80m? Or I won?t know until I try it?

Tks - Steve WB6RSE

From tshoppa at gmail.com  Sat Dec  5 14:58:24 2015
From: tshoppa at gmail.com (Tim Shoppa)
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2015 14:58:24 -0500
Subject: Topband: Topband QRP WAS
In-Reply-To: <5663137D.8030802@karlquist.com>
References: <56627845.8040401@audiosystemsgroup.com>
	<5663137D.8030802@karlquist.com>
Message-ID: <CAJ_qRvYgpSUqm5pjdn92jTR5UkLfPcbCtfik3tk6VoAaj+J1xg@mail.gmail.com>

Rich, you comment on the "combat zone" aspect of ARRL 160M in past years
and how it's not so bad this year.

I agree that past couple years it was brutal but last night, not so bad. I
don't feel activity was down, just maybe a little bit more rationally
spread out. DX window wasn't perfectly respected but did have some useful
sparseness, and the DX certainly did not feel confined to that window
either.

I had some hugely successful runs high in the band (1850-1860), others were
running up there plus a little more, and we were not chased away by the
usual phone nets reserving "their frequency". I think reduced QRM from
phone nets, allowing a busy CW night to have just a little breathing room,
was the big improvement.

Tim N3QE

On Sat, Dec 5, 2015 at 11:40 AM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist <
richard at karlquist.com> wrote:

>
> On 12/4/2015 9:38 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
>
>> I'm still working on this, and need a handful of states. They are CT,
>> VT, WV, KY, SC, andMS.  I'm 70 miles S of San Francisco, on the coast.
>>
>> The best time to make these QSOs has been in the 90 or so minutes before
>> local sunrise at the east coast end, and for perhaps 30-45 minutes after
>> local sunrise. If you're calling CQ, I'll find you and do my best to
>> make you hear me. :)
>>
>> Thanks and 73, Jim K9YC
>>
>
> Last night, I worked several CT, KY, and SC, and at least 1 MS.
> However, these were before 0730Z. I too got up at 1130Z and I
> think I only worked KY on your list this morning. OTOH, JA's
> were booming in this morning, especially JA3YBK who can be
> counted on to be the strongest JA, yet I didn't hear him
> CQ'ing on 1811 as usual.  He called me.
>
> Activity seemed to be down, so I didn't have a lot of trouble
> getting a run frequency (even running low power) in the
> "dime quarter" band (1810-1825) where JA's hang out. In the
> past, this has virtually been a combat zone.
>
> Still need (for the contest) WV and VT (always tough to find
> and work from here).
>
> Rick N6RK
>
>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>

From herbert.schoenbohm at gmail.com  Sat Dec  5 17:07:28 2015
From: herbert.schoenbohm at gmail.com (Herbert Schoenbohm)
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2015 18:07:28 -0400
Subject: Topband: Shunt Feed Cage
In-Reply-To: <1449345687934.897449524@boxbe>
References: <1449345687934.897449524@boxbe>
Message-ID: <56636020.1020203@gmail.com>

Steve, Space the cage wire should at least 24 inches under the belief 
that the fatter the structure appears at RF to be the  more bandwidth 
will be obtained. Also consider at a minimum a ground screen of rabbit 
fencing around the base of your tower to reduce your ground loses which 
are probably eating up 50% of your power as presently configured.


Herb, KV4FZ
On 12/5/2015 3:56 PM, wb6rse1 at mac.com wrote:
> Boxbe <https://www.boxbe.com/overview> This message is eligible for 
> Automatic Cleanup! (wb6rse1 at mac.com) Add cleanup rule 
> <https://www.boxbe.com/popup?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.boxbe.com%2Fcleanup%3Ftoken%3DVSc7MfNPhA%252FzUK1%252BxNadKvzLWX3vQeEb8A%252FoYs5TaFKHqRkxdDdKs12%252BFrEIslNwFr4Eysy3jL747b3FKVa%252Bo%252FAefVFyRS77j8WVF0Vk7vXpfwHouw152rBxTYENw5HIOrIfWlF5HAM%253D%26key%3DOex6pS3CBve8TYCF2EhkTffuQAENI0GFBmIYgU%252FcT0E%253D&tc_serial=23546371068&tc_rand=1657742216&utm_source=stf&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=ANNO_CLEANUP_ADD&utm_content=001> 
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>
>
>
> I shunt feed my 54 ft free standing 3 section crank-up tower for 160m and 80m, remote relay band switchable omega match. 2:1 SWR bandwidth is around 40+ kc on 160 and about 20 kc on 80.
>
> 3/8? solid gamma rod, 15? from a tower leg attached at about the 22 ft level, the top of the bottom section of the tower. These parameters will not change nor will the fact that I have no radials since there is no place for them on my small city lot. There are two 8 ft ground rods at the tower base.
>
> If I were to put a cage of 2, 3 or 4 wires around the gamma rod, each spaced 3 inches or so from the rod, could I expect to see a significant improvement in bandwidth on 80m? Or I won?t know until I try it?
>
> Tks - Steve WB6RSE
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


From mlunday at nc.rr.com  Sat Dec  5 17:43:58 2015
From: mlunday at nc.rr.com (Mark Lunday)
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2015 17:43:58 -0500
Subject: Topband: DX on 160, was: Topband QRP WAS
In-Reply-To: <56633DBA.90606@comcast.net>
References: <56627845.8040401@audiosystemsgroup.com>
	<5663137D.8030802@karlquist.com>
	<566323E0.1000502@audiosystemsgroup.com>
	<5663298D.2020608@comcast.net>
	<001301d12f91$29ceff10$7d6cfd30$@rr.com>
	<56633DBA.90606@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <002901d12fae$6e815640$4b8402c0$@rr.com>

Bill, a question about your 160 meter antenna.  I have learned from the wise
old-timers on this message board that a vertical antenna with broad-banded
behavior is a lossy antenna.  Same with a vertical antenna that shows 1:1
match.

Verticals with good efficiency have sufficient ground radials/counterpoise
and present approx 30 ohms impedance and therefore do not provide a 1:1
match (I think it's about 1.5:1 or something like that).  In addition, the
efficient verticals are not broad-banded.  Dipoles yes, verticals no.  Also,
if your antenna is not a vertical on 160, then as you know it will be an
even bigger challenge to work DX on TopBand.

Please share more details?

Mark Lunday, WD4ELG
Greensboro, NC  FM06be
wd4elg at arrl.net
http://wd4elg.blogspot.com

-----Original Message-----
From: K4OWR [mailto:k2owr at comcast.net] 
Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2015 2:41 PM
To: Mark Lunday; topband at contesting.com
Subject: Re: DX on 160, was: Topband QRP WAS

:::: Ok. That explains my experience in so few DX contacts. I'll change that
immediately; although I do enjoy ragchewing with other similar interest
hams. I find CW cumbersome for that since it breaks down simple conversation
into one letter at a time; but the weak signal benefits are huge.
Now all I have to do is commit to going up to the shack (about 150' up the
hill) in the relative dark and cold much later in the evening, or as you
guys recommend before sunrise.
I do not leave the heat on up there so it will be very cold here on a
Tennessee morning :-) In the meantime I look forward to working you guys and
will fire up between 1820-1840 from now on. My antennas are set for 1:1 swr
at about
1860 but are fairly broad for some lucky reason. I do not use antenna
tuners, especially on 160 where I find them to be a fire hazard with my big
amp :-)))) Thanx for all the terrific info!!
BILL K4OWR


From mlunday at nc.rr.com  Sat Dec  5 17:50:04 2015
From: mlunday at nc.rr.com (Mark Lunday)
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2015 17:50:04 -0500
Subject: Topband: Topband QRP WAS
In-Reply-To: <trinity-47f0dc5f-a9cf-4c87-9902-93f8c0691140-1449342817296@3capp-webde-bap30>
References: <56627845.8040401@audiosystemsgroup.com>	<5663137D.8030802@karlquist.com>	<566323E0.1000502@audiosystemsgroup.com>	<5663298D.2020608@comcast.net>,
	<56632D42.4090706@audiosystemsgroup.com>
	<trinity-47f0dc5f-a9cf-4c87-9902-93f8c0691140-1449342817296@3capp-webde-bap30>
Message-ID: <002a01d12faf$4824ab40$d86e01c0$@rr.com>

Guten abend, Thomas.

John Devoldere in his books states that 160 meter band is a different band
than all others.  80 meters can be predicted/modeled fairly accurately.  But
160 is still full of wonder and new learnings.

11 years on top band, I have not observed any difference in propagation
between 1820 kHz and 1980 kHz.  That is a great question.  Maybe it is only
by tradition/history that the DX is mostly close to 1.8 MHz?  This could be
a fun experiment for data collection...using WSPR or QRSS.

Mark Lunday, WD4ELG
Greensboro, NC  FM06be
wd4elg at arrl.net
http://wd4elg.blogspot.com


From k2owr at comcast.net  Sat Dec  5 18:24:47 2015
From: k2owr at comcast.net (K4OWR)
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2015 18:24:47 -0500
Subject: Topband: DX on 160, was: Topband QRP WAS
In-Reply-To: <002901d12fae$6e815640$4b8402c0$@rr.com>
References: <56627845.8040401@audiosystemsgroup.com>
	<5663137D.8030802@karlquist.com>
	<566323E0.1000502@audiosystemsgroup.com>
	<5663298D.2020608@comcast.net> <001301d12f91$29ceff10$7d6cfd30$@rr.com>
	<56633DBA.90606@comcast.net> <002901d12fae$6e815640$4b8402c0$@rr.com>
Message-ID: <5663723F.6040705@comcast.net>

:::: Thanks Mark. I may have overstated it's bandwidth. It does however 
play well up to 1.9 (2:1)
, and happily, my amplifier (AL82) seems to match fairly easily.
I also did not mention that so far I have only put out 5 radials....my 
goal was to eventually get out at least 25 and more if I can in the 
spring, but it's tedious even with the little power trencher I bought 
for the purpose.
BILL K4OWR

On 12/5/2015 5:43 PM, Mark Lunday wrote:
> Bill, a question about your 160 meter antenna.  I have learned from the wise
> old-timers on this message board that a vertical antenna with broad-banded
> behavior is a lossy antenna.  Same with a vertical antenna that shows 1:1
> match.
>
> Verticals with good efficiency have sufficient ground radials/counterpoise
> and present approx 30 ohms impedance and therefore do not provide a 1:1
> match (I think it's about 1.5:1 or something like that).  In addition, the
> efficient verticals are not broad-banded.  Dipoles yes, verticals no.  Also,
> if your antenna is not a vertical on 160, then as you know it will be an
> even bigger challenge to work DX on TopBand.
>
> Please share more details?
>
> Mark Lunday, WD4ELG
> Greensboro, NC  FM06be
> wd4elg at arrl.net
> http://wd4elg.blogspot.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: K4OWR [mailto:k2owr at comcast.net]
> Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2015 2:41 PM
> To: Mark Lunday; topband at contesting.com
> Subject: Re: DX on 160, was: Topband QRP WAS
>
> :::: Ok. That explains my experience in so few DX contacts. I'll change that
> immediately; although I do enjoy ragchewing with other similar interest
> hams. I find CW cumbersome for that since it breaks down simple conversation
> into one letter at a time; but the weak signal benefits are huge.
> Now all I have to do is commit to going up to the shack (about 150' up the
> hill) in the relative dark and cold much later in the evening, or as you
> guys recommend before sunrise.
> I do not leave the heat on up there so it will be very cold here on a
> Tennessee morning :-) In the meantime I look forward to working you guys and
> will fire up between 1820-1840 from now on. My antennas are set for 1:1 swr
> at about
> 1860 but are fairly broad for some lucky reason. I do not use antenna
> tuners, especially on 160 where I find them to be a fire hazard with my big
> amp :-)))) Thanx for all the terrific info!!
> BILL K4OWR
>
>


From jim at audiosystemsgroup.com  Sat Dec  5 19:19:27 2015
From: jim at audiosystemsgroup.com (Jim Brown)
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2015 16:19:27 -0800
Subject: Topband: Broadbanding An Antenna and Impedance Matching
In-Reply-To: <002901d12fae$6e815640$4b8402c0$@rr.com>
References: <56627845.8040401@audiosystemsgroup.com>
	<5663137D.8030802@karlquist.com>
	<566323E0.1000502@audiosystemsgroup.com>
	<5663298D.2020608@comcast.net> <001301d12f91$29ceff10$7d6cfd30$@rr.com>
	<56633DBA.90606@comcast.net> <002901d12fae$6e815640$4b8402c0$@rr.com>
Message-ID: <56637F0F.2080000@audiosystemsgroup.com>

On Sat,12/5/2015 2:43 PM, Mark Lunday wrote:
>   I have learned from the wise
> old-timers on this message board that a vertical antenna with broad-banded
> behavior is a lossy antenna.  Same with a vertical antenna that shows 1:1
> match.

Horse-pucky on both counts. I've been reading this message board for ten 
years, and most guys here are a LOT smarter than that.

There are several ways to broadband an antenna. One is to increase the 
conductor diameter. A vertical made from Rohn 25 will have greater SWR 
bandwidth than one made from a single #14 copper wire (or even a single 
#10 wire). It is well known that the SWR bandwidth of a wire vertical 
can increased by building it from two widely spaced conductors that are 
tied together top and bottom. Both ways of doing it will yield an 
antenna that is physically shorter to achieve resonance.

Likewise, there are multiple ways to achieve a 1:1 match. Yes, a 
vertical with a poor radial or counterpoise will show a match closer to 
1:1 because of ground losses. BUT -- a vertical with a very good radial 
or counterpoise system, which has a feedpoint Z near 30 ohms, can be 
matched to 50 ohms in several ways that do not increase loss. One is 
with an autoformer. Another is with a simple matching network. Another 
is to tune the antenna long by adding top-loading, which increases the 
feedpoint Z to 50 + jX ohms, then add series C at the feedpoint to tune 
out jX. ALL of these methods yield 1:1 SWR with high efficiency.

73, Jim K9YC

From w8ji at w8ji.com  Sat Dec  5 21:22:54 2015
From: w8ji at w8ji.com (Tom W8JI)
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2015 21:22:54 -0500
Subject: Topband: DX on 160, was: Topband QRP WAS
References: <56627845.8040401@audiosystemsgroup.com><5663137D.8030802@karlquist.com><566323E0.1000502@audiosystemsgroup.com><5663298D.2020608@comcast.net>
	<001301d12f91$29ceff10$7d6cfd30$@rr.com><56633DBA.90606@comcast.net>
	<002901d12fae$6e815640$4b8402c0$@rr.com>
	<5663723F.6040705@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <32203F86889842D0A661BF4EF35B1578@MAIN>

> On 12/5/2015 5:43 PM, Mark Lunday wrote:
>> Bill, a question about your 160 meter antenna.  I have learned from the 
>> wise
>> old-timers on this message board that a vertical antenna with 
>> broad-banded
>> behavior is a lossy antenna.  Same with a vertical antenna that shows 1:1
>> match.

Some people might believe that myth, but it isn't true.

Bandwidth is a meaningless determinant of efficiency. SWR is meaningless 
also, by itself, in indicating efficiency.

>> Verticals with good efficiency have sufficient ground 
>> radials/counterpoise
>> and present approx 30 ohms impedance and therefore do not provide a 1:1
>> match (I think it's about 1.5:1 or something like that).  In addition, 
>> the
>> efficient verticals are not broad-banded.  Dipoles yes, verticals no. 
>> Also,
>> if your antenna is not a vertical on 160, then as you know it will be an
>> even bigger challenge to work DX on TopBand.

A 1/4 wave tall tower with a perfect ground system will cover all of the 
band with reasonable SWR change. If series fed they will be around 30 ohms 
depending in many things, but that still does not tell us efficiency.

>> efficient verticals are not broad-banded.  Dipoles yes, verticals no. 
>> Also,
>> if your antenna is not a vertical on 160, then as you know it will be an
>> even bigger challenge to work DX on TopBand.

Actually that is exactly backwards, Mark.

Dipoles are narrower than 1/4 wave verticals, all things equal. This is 
because a 1/4 wave vertical has half the resonant length.

73 Tom 


From mikewate at gmail.com  Sat Dec  5 22:19:36 2015
From: mikewate at gmail.com (Mike Waters)
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2015 21:19:36 -0600
Subject: Topband: ON4KST low band chat
Message-ID: <CA+FxYXixcMd7Hy_d-+0WPfckszkayMM4-kT6FDGjvJKTUSXGow@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Mark,

[was: Re: Topband: DX on 160, was: Topband QRP WAS]
On Sat, Dec 5, 2015 at 1:14 PM, Mark Lunday <mlunday at nc.rr.com> wrote:

> ... Check out ON4KST chat room for real-time info.
>

I'm not knocking your advice, but this seems like a good place and time to
"vent". :-)

When the ON4KST chat room combined 160, 80, and 40 into the "Low band
chat", it all of a sudden became WAY too cluttered for me. I was almost
ready to send a few bucks that way, but then that happened.

All I care about is 160 meters, so I don't even use it anymore.

Is there an alternative?

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com

From co8dm at frcuba.co.cu  Sat Dec  5 23:16:37 2015
From: co8dm at frcuba.co.cu (Douglas Ruz (CO8DM))
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2015 23:16:37 -0500
Subject: Topband: CO8DM on 1861 Khz CW...
Message-ID: <25BB76C4E498431E9DD1E7C8C1D4AFC3@Casa>

Hi,

I am calling on 1861 Khz...only 100 watts.

If someone would like to try.

73....Douglas, CO8DM

"No creo que haya alguna emoci?n m?s intensa para un inventor que ver alguna de sus creaciones funcionando. Esa emoci?n hace que uno se olvide de comer, de dormir, de todo." - Nikola Tesla

From keepwalking188 at ac0c.com  Sat Dec  5 23:22:18 2015
From: keepwalking188 at ac0c.com (Jeff AC0C)
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2015 22:22:18 -0600
Subject: Topband: CO8DM on 1861 Khz CW...
In-Reply-To: <25BB76C4E498431E9DD1E7C8C1D4AFC3@Casa>
References: <25BB76C4E498431E9DD1E7C8C1D4AFC3@Casa>
Message-ID: <2E9E8ABA62C14D0C87BFBFE549C10B29@w520>

Douglas,

You may want to move up a bit more.  There is an AM broadcast on 1860.

73/jeff/ac0c
www.ac0c.com
alpha-charlie-zero-charlie

-----Original Message----- 
From: Douglas Ruz (CO8DM)
Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2015 10:16 PM
To: topband at contesting.com
Subject: Topband: CO8DM on 1861 Khz CW...

Hi,

I am calling on 1861 Khz...only 100 watts.

If someone would like to try.

73....Douglas, CO8DM

"No creo que haya alguna emoci?n m?s intensa para un inventor que ver alguna 
de sus creaciones funcionando. Esa emoci?n hace que uno se olvide de comer, 
de dormir, de todo." - Nikola Tesla
_________________
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband 


From mikewate at gmail.com  Sat Dec  5 23:23:29 2015
From: mikewate at gmail.com (Mike Waters)
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2015 22:23:29 -0600
Subject: Topband: ON4KST low band chat
In-Reply-To: <D716B9DF26FA49AF804E6A31CC024394@MomPC>
References: <CA+FxYXixcMd7Hy_d-+0WPfckszkayMM4-kT6FDGjvJKTUSXGow@mail.gmail.com>
	<D716B9DF26FA49AF804E6A31CC024394@MomPC>
Message-ID: <CA+FxYXgUfVkm-qmEDo3Hc+N1jHOePD2ANDwp7YqK0EGfZMjFWw@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks! I didn't see that option. I'll check it out.

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com

Mike you can reduce it to just 80 and 160 as I have you don't need to do
> all 3 bands see the menu
>
>
> When the ON4KST chat room combined 160, 80, and 40 into the "Low band
>> chat", it all of a sudden became WAY too cluttered for me. I was almost
>> ready to send a few bucks that way, but then that happened.
>>
>> All I care about is 160 meters, so I don't even use it anymore.
>>
>
>

From co8dm at frcuba.co.cu  Sat Dec  5 23:25:24 2015
From: co8dm at frcuba.co.cu (Douglas Ruz (CO8DM))
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2015 23:25:24 -0500
Subject: Topband: CO8DM on 1861 Khz CW...
References: <25BB76C4E498431E9DD1E7C8C1D4AFC3@Casa>
	<2E9E8ABA62C14D0C87BFBFE549C10B29@w520>
Message-ID: <BEBE8E5A1F274C57AC97BE534662F286@Casa>

Ok Jeff...1870 is clean.

I move to 1870 Khz

73....Douglas, CO8DM

"No creo que haya alguna emoci?n m?s intensa para un inventor que ver alguna 
de sus creaciones funcionando. Esa emoci?n hace que uno se olvide de comer, 
de dormir, de todo." - Nikola Tesla
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jeff AC0C" <keepwalking188 at ac0c.com>
To: "Douglas Ruz (CO8DM)" <co8dm at frcuba.co.cu>; <topband at contesting.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2015 11:22 PM
Subject: Re: Topband: CO8DM on 1861 Khz CW...


> Douglas,
>
> You may want to move up a bit more.  There is an AM broadcast on 1860.
>
> 73/jeff/ac0c
> www.ac0c.com
> alpha-charlie-zero-charlie
>
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Douglas Ruz (CO8DM)
> Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2015 10:16 PM
> To: topband at contesting.com
> Subject: Topband: CO8DM on 1861 Khz CW...
>
> Hi,
>
> I am calling on 1861 Khz...only 100 watts.
>
> If someone would like to try.
>
> 73....Douglas, CO8DM
>
> "No creo que haya alguna emoci?n m?s intensa para un inventor que ver 
> alguna de sus creaciones funcionando. Esa emoci?n hace que uno se olvide 
> de comer, de dormir, de todo." - Nikola Tesla
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband 


From mikewate at gmail.com  Sat Dec  5 23:30:41 2015
From: mikewate at gmail.com (Mike Waters)
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2015 22:30:41 -0600
Subject: Topband: ON4KST low band chat
In-Reply-To: <CA+FxYXgUfVkm-qmEDo3Hc+N1jHOePD2ANDwp7YqK0EGfZMjFWw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+FxYXixcMd7Hy_d-+0WPfckszkayMM4-kT6FDGjvJKTUSXGow@mail.gmail.com>
	<D716B9DF26FA49AF804E6A31CC024394@MomPC>
	<CA+FxYXgUfVkm-qmEDo3Hc+N1jHOePD2ANDwp7YqK0EGfZMjFWw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+FxYXg_1S=qRYdn66sezeek-F1u8sOS91Hg8DoJO3tPRgLDHw@mail.gmail.com>

I don't see how to do that. How do we reduce it to just 80 and 160?

Thanks and 73,
Mike
www.w0btu.com

On Sat, Dec 5, 2015 at 10:23 PM, Mike Waters <mikewate at gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks! I didn't see that option. I'll check it out.
>
>
> Mike you can reduce it to just 80 and 160 as I have you don't need to do
>> all 3 bands see the menu
>>
>>
>> When the ON4KST chat room combined 160, 80, and 40 into the "Low band
>>> chat", it all of a sudden became WAY too cluttered for me. I was almost
>>> ready to send a few bucks that way, but then that happened.
>>>
>>> All I care about is 160 meters, so I don't even use it anymore.
>>>
>>
>>

From mikewate at gmail.com  Sat Dec  5 23:48:06 2015
From: mikewate at gmail.com (Mike Waters)
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2015 22:48:06 -0600
Subject: Topband: ON4KST low band chat
In-Reply-To: <CAN1acjYXydJrpzH2UAmf42YwYkcwNEAHwLsGcjjbZoe+4qtmKQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+FxYXixcMd7Hy_d-+0WPfckszkayMM4-kT6FDGjvJKTUSXGow@mail.gmail.com>
	<D716B9DF26FA49AF804E6A31CC024394@MomPC>
	<CA+FxYXgUfVkm-qmEDo3Hc+N1jHOePD2ANDwp7YqK0EGfZMjFWw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+FxYXg_1S=qRYdn66sezeek-F1u8sOS91Hg8DoJO3tPRgLDHw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN1acjYXydJrpzH2UAmf42YwYkcwNEAHwLsGcjjbZoe+4qtmKQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+FxYXgUO_SePgVBaBB-qar1BxBbwBpkDaW6XD0m=2QABvNFkw@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks, but that doesn't fix the 40m clutter in the ON4KST lowband chat.
That's what I meant.

For me, adding 40m to the chat simply ruined it. I'd be willing to pay to
have it work like it used to, just 160 and 80.

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com


Menu
> Change Settings
> Cluster Spots Panel Configuration
> Choose 1.8 for only 160 spots
>
>
>
> On Sat, Dec 5, 2015 at 11:30 PM, Mike Waters <mikewate at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I don't see how to do that. How do we reduce it to just 80 and 160?
>>
>> Thanks and 73,
>> Mike
>> www.w0btu.com
>>
>> On Sat, Dec 5, 2015 at 10:23 PM, Mike Waters <mikewate at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Thanks! I didn't see that option. I'll check it out.
>> >
>> >
>> > Mike you can reduce it to just 80 and 160 as I have you don't need to do
>> >> all 3 bands see the menu
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> When the ON4KST chat room combined 160, 80, and 40 into the "Low band
>> >>> chat", it all of a sudden became WAY too cluttered for me. I was
>> almost
>> >>> ready to send a few bucks that way, but then that happened.
>> >>>
>> >>> All I care about is 160 meters, so I don't even use it anymore.
>> >>>
>>
>> _________________
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>
>
>

From 57JNDenneny at comcast.net  Sat Dec  5 23:51:10 2015
From: 57JNDenneny at comcast.net (JAMES)
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2015 04:51:10 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Topband: 160M WAS - need ME
In-Reply-To: <186987655.505170.1449377256380.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <1121935230.506571.1449377470080.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net>

Worked 49 states (74 of 83 sections) in ARRL 160M CW Contest this weekend. Need Maine to complete 160M WAS. Saw one ME spot but he was jumping around S&P as I was. 

I would appreciate hearing from any ME stations willing to attempt a topband sked. 

Tnx & 73 

Jim K7EG 
Auburn WA 
57jndenneny at comcast.net 

From co8dm at frcuba.co.cu  Sat Dec  5 23:54:54 2015
From: co8dm at frcuba.co.cu (Douglas Ruz (CO8DM))
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2015 23:54:54 -0500
Subject: Topband: CO8DM on 1861 Khz CW...
References: <25BB76C4E498431E9DD1E7C8C1D4AFC3@Casa><2E9E8ABA62C14D0C87BFBFE549C10B29@w520>
	<BEBE8E5A1F274C57AC97BE534662F286@Casa>
Message-ID: <B54A8108C21B4CEE867DF2ED94C2E198@Casa>

i am now on 1827.5 Khz

73....Douglas, CO8DM

"No creo que haya alguna emoci?n m?s intensa para un inventor que ver alguna 
de sus creaciones funcionando. Esa emoci?n hace que uno se olvide de comer, 
de dormir, de todo." - Nikola Tesla
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Douglas Ruz (CO8DM)" <co8dm at frcuba.co.cu>
To: "Jeff AC0C" <keepwalking188 at ac0c.com>; <topband at contesting.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2015 11:25 PM
Subject: Re: Topband: CO8DM on 1861 Khz CW...


Ok Jeff...1870 is clean.

I move to 1870 Khz

73....Douglas, CO8DM

"No creo que haya alguna emoci?n m?s intensa para un inventor que ver alguna
de sus creaciones funcionando. Esa emoci?n hace que uno se olvide de comer,
de dormir, de todo." - Nikola Tesla
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jeff AC0C" <keepwalking188 at ac0c.com>
To: "Douglas Ruz (CO8DM)" <co8dm at frcuba.co.cu>; <topband at contesting.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2015 11:22 PM
Subject: Re: Topband: CO8DM on 1861 Khz CW...


> Douglas,
>
> You may want to move up a bit more.  There is an AM broadcast on 1860.
>
> 73/jeff/ac0c
> www.ac0c.com
> alpha-charlie-zero-charlie
>
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Douglas Ruz (CO8DM)
> Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2015 10:16 PM
> To: topband at contesting.com
> Subject: Topband: CO8DM on 1861 Khz CW...
>
> Hi,
>
> I am calling on 1861 Khz...only 100 watts.
>
> If someone would like to try.
>
> 73....Douglas, CO8DM
>
> "No creo que haya alguna emoci?n m?s intensa para un inventor que ver 
> alguna de sus creaciones funcionando. Esa emoci?n hace que uno se olvide 
> de comer, de dormir, de todo." - Nikola Tesla
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

_________________
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband 


From co8dm at frcuba.co.cu  Sat Dec  5 23:57:15 2015
From: co8dm at frcuba.co.cu (Douglas Ruz (CO8DM))
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2015 23:57:15 -0500
Subject: Topband: i am calling on 1827.5 Khz now
Message-ID: <A2382E1FBD9D4DBAA6B276B8306C4F1B@Casa>


73....Douglas, CO8DM

"No creo que haya alguna emoci?n m?s intensa para un inventor que ver alguna de sus creaciones funcionando. Esa emoci?n hace que uno se olvide de comer, de dormir, de todo." - Nikola Tesla

From mikewate at gmail.com  Sat Dec  5 23:58:46 2015
From: mikewate at gmail.com (Mike Waters)
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2015 22:58:46 -0600
Subject: Topband: ON4KST low band chat
In-Reply-To: <5663BF73.2000804@flex.com>
References: <CA+FxYXixcMd7Hy_d-+0WPfckszkayMM4-kT6FDGjvJKTUSXGow@mail.gmail.com>
	<D716B9DF26FA49AF804E6A31CC024394@MomPC>
	<CA+FxYXgUfVkm-qmEDo3Hc+N1jHOePD2ANDwp7YqK0EGfZMjFWw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+FxYXg_1S=qRYdn66sezeek-F1u8sOS91Hg8DoJO3tPRgLDHw@mail.gmail.com>
	<5663BF73.2000804@flex.com>
Message-ID: <CA+FxYXiV1FChFBnKxe8Hr-47GVPB+E2oM1wsvifuo-rdNT4Wsg@mail.gmail.com>

I keep getting replies like this.

I'm talking about the chat, NOT the cluster spots.

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com


Open the Change setting box,  scroll down to Cluster spots panel, check
> which bands you wish to see.
>
>
> I don't see how to do that. How do we reduce it to just 80 and 160?
>>
>> Thanks and 73,
>> Mike
>> www.w0btu.com
>>
>> On Sat, Dec 5, 2015 at 10:23 PM, Mike Waters <mikewate at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks! I didn't see that option. I'll check it out.
>>>
>>>
>>> Mike you can reduce it to just 80 and 160 as I have you don't need to do
>>>
>>>> all 3 bands see the menu
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> When the ON4KST chat room combined 160, 80, and 40 into the "Low band
>>>>
>>>>> chat", it all of a sudden became WAY too cluttered for me. I was almost
>>>>> ready to send a few bucks that way, but then that happened.
>>>>>
>>>>> All I care about is 160 meters, so I don't even use it anymore.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> _________________
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>
>>
>

From mikewate at gmail.com  Sun Dec  6 00:06:07 2015
From: mikewate at gmail.com (Mike Waters)
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2015 23:06:07 -0600
Subject: Topband: ON4KST low band chat
In-Reply-To: <9DAECD3044604385BF481FCB59FC7D29@MomPC>
References: <CA+FxYXixcMd7Hy_d-+0WPfckszkayMM4-kT6FDGjvJKTUSXGow@mail.gmail.com>
	<D716B9DF26FA49AF804E6A31CC024394@MomPC>
	<CA+FxYXgUfVkm-qmEDo3Hc+N1jHOePD2ANDwp7YqK0EGfZMjFWw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+FxYXg_1S=qRYdn66sezeek-F1u8sOS91Hg8DoJO3tPRgLDHw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN1acjYXydJrpzH2UAmf42YwYkcwNEAHwLsGcjjbZoe+4qtmKQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+FxYXgUO_SePgVBaBB-qar1BxBbwBpkDaW6XD0m=2QABvNFkw@mail.gmail.com>
	<9DAECD3044604385BF481FCB59FC7D29@MomPC>
Message-ID: <CA+FxYXjSzTYmkTt=3FDhUNgHGCq-5XsfznHbbQKv7f51NJAc=Q@mail.gmail.com>

How do we set the *CHAT* to show only 160 and 80 posts?

I don't know how I can make this any clearer. THIS IS *NOT" ABOUT THE SPOTS.

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com


I agree I have the chat set to only show 80 and 160 stuff it takes away all
> the other "CRAP"
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Mike
> Waters
> Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2015 11:48 PM
> To: topband
> Cc: chat at on4kst.com
> Subject: Re: Topband: ON4KST low band chat
>
> Thanks, but that doesn't fix the 40m clutter in the ON4KST lowband chat.
> That's what I meant.
>
> For me, adding 40m to the chat simply ruined it. I'd be willing to pay to
> have it work like it used to, just 160 and 80.
>
> 73, Mike
> www.w0btu.com
>
>
> Menu
> > Change Settings
> > Cluster Spots Panel Configuration
> > Choose 1.8 for only 160 spots
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Dec 5, 2015 at 11:30 PM, Mike Waters <mikewate at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> I don't see how to do that. How do we reduce it to just 80 and 160?
> >>
> >> Thanks and 73,
> >> Mike
> >> www.w0btu.com
> >>
> >> On Sat, Dec 5, 2015 at 10:23 PM, Mike Waters <mikewate at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Thanks! I didn't see that option. I'll check it out.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Mike you can reduce it to just 80 and 160 as I have you don't need to
> do
> >> >> all 3 bands see the menu
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> When the ON4KST chat room combined 160, 80, and 40 into the "Low band
> >> >>> chat", it all of a sudden became WAY too cluttered for me. I was
> >> almost
> >> >>> ready to send a few bucks that way, but then that happened.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> All I care about is 160 meters, so I don't even use it anymore.
> >> >>>
> >>
> >> _________________
> >> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> >>
> >
> >
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
>

From w8ji at w8ji.com  Sun Dec  6 00:10:50 2015
From: w8ji at w8ji.com (Tom W8JI)
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2015 00:10:50 -0500
Subject: Topband: ON4KST low band chat
References: <CA+FxYXixcMd7Hy_d-+0WPfckszkayMM4-kT6FDGjvJKTUSXGow@mail.gmail.com><D716B9DF26FA49AF804E6A31CC024394@MomPC><CA+FxYXgUfVkm-qmEDo3Hc+N1jHOePD2ANDwp7YqK0EGfZMjFWw@mail.gmail.com><CA+FxYXg_1S=qRYdn66sezeek-F1u8sOS91Hg8DoJO3tPRgLDHw@mail.gmail.com><CAN1acjYXydJrpzH2UAmf42YwYkcwNEAHwLsGcjjbZoe+4qtmKQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+FxYXgUO_SePgVBaBB-qar1BxBbwBpkDaW6XD0m=2QABvNFkw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D67486EC08104CC29D9E9F4119C2649A@MAIN>

> Thanks, but that doesn't fix the 40m clutter in the ON4KST lowband chat.
> That's what I meant.
>
> For me, adding 40m to the chat simply ruined it. I'd be willing to pay to
> have it work like it used to, just 160 and 80.


40 meters is more like 20 meters than a low band.  From this part of the 
USA, 40 is open to Europe about 20 hours a day and hardly has QRN.

40 should not be rolled in with 80, let alone 160.



From mikewate at gmail.com  Sun Dec  6 00:12:26 2015
From: mikewate at gmail.com (Mike Waters)
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2015 23:12:26 -0600
Subject: Topband: ON4KST low band chat
In-Reply-To: <D67486EC08104CC29D9E9F4119C2649A@MAIN>
References: <CA+FxYXixcMd7Hy_d-+0WPfckszkayMM4-kT6FDGjvJKTUSXGow@mail.gmail.com>
	<D716B9DF26FA49AF804E6A31CC024394@MomPC>
	<CA+FxYXgUfVkm-qmEDo3Hc+N1jHOePD2ANDwp7YqK0EGfZMjFWw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+FxYXg_1S=qRYdn66sezeek-F1u8sOS91Hg8DoJO3tPRgLDHw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN1acjYXydJrpzH2UAmf42YwYkcwNEAHwLsGcjjbZoe+4qtmKQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+FxYXgUO_SePgVBaBB-qar1BxBbwBpkDaW6XD0m=2QABvNFkw@mail.gmail.com>
	<D67486EC08104CC29D9E9F4119C2649A@MAIN>
Message-ID: <CA+FxYXgdKbLGOHxoPrD66cQtsP1D4eCOxiT-jY=w9YgO3-OKCg@mail.gmail.com>

Finally, somebody else gets it! :-)

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com

On Sat, Dec 5, 2015 at 11:10 PM, Tom W8JI <w8ji at w8ji.com> wrote:

> Thanks, but that doesn't fix the 40m clutter in the ON4KST lowband chat.
>> That's what I meant.
>>
>> For me, adding 40m to the chat simply ruined it. I'd be willing to pay to
>> have it work like it used to, just 160 and 80.
>>
>
>
> 40 meters is more like 20 meters than a low band.  From this part of the
> USA, 40 is open to Europe about 20 hours a day and hardly has QRN.
>
> 40 should not be rolled in with 80, let alone 160.
>
>
>

From k8mn at frontiernet.net  Sun Dec  6 14:09:11 2015
From: k8mn at frontiernet.net (Dave Heil)
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2015 19:09:11 +0000
Subject: Topband: Fwd: Re:  Future propagation ?
In-Reply-To: <566487B3.6010104@frontiernet.net>
References: <566487B3.6010104@frontiernet.net>
Message-ID: <566487D7.7060307@frontiernet.net>




-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: Re: Topband: Future propagation ?
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2015 19:08:35 +0000
From: Dave Heil <k8mn at frontiernet.net>
To: k1fz at myfairpoint.net

See: http://www.britannica.com/science/harmattan

This dust from the Sahara is a yearly event and I have no doubt that
some of it ends up off the East Coast.

Even with windows closed and masking tape on the seams, I'd wake up in
the middle of the night, coughing and choking, in Guinea-Bissau when the
Harmattan arrived.

73,

Dave Heil K8MN

On 04-Dec-15 16:29, K1FZ-Bruce wrote:
>   Watching NOVA on PBS last night.  Diving into Blue water "sink holes".  Found evidence indicated that iron rich sand from the very dry Sarah Desert had blown across the Atlantic to the Bahama Island region.
> (possibly related to previous global warming period ?)
>
> Wondering, if this takes place again, will this semi conductive  material give us a leg up on propagation to Africa, and beyond ? (;>))
>
> 73
> Bruce-K1FZ
> www.qsl.net/k1fz/beverage_antenna.html
>
>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2015.0.6176 / Virus Database: 4477/11112 - Release Date: 12/04/15
>



From k1fz at myfairpoint.net  Sun Dec  6 14:26:54 2015
From: k1fz at myfairpoint.net (=?utf-8?b?SzFGWi1CcnVjZQ==?=)
Date: Sun, 06 Dec 2015 14:26:54 -0500
Subject: Topband: Future propagation ?
In-Reply-To: <566487D7.7060307@frontiernet.net>
References: <566487B3.6010104@frontiernet.net>
	<566487D7.7060307@frontiernet.net>
Message-ID: <20151206142654.d9dsk61vk0scwsck@webmail.myfairpoint.net>

Thanks info Dave. In the Nova?coverage they were concentrating upon a 
few inch band on Iron, that?coincided? with? the loss of various 
species in the Bahamas. 
They found a preserved?crocodile head for example. 
?
73
Bruce
www.qsl.net/k1fz/pennantnotes.html
?
?
?
On Sun, 6 Dec 2015 19:09:11 +0000, Dave Heil  wrote:

See: http://www.britannica.com/science/harmattan

This dust from the Sahara is a yearly event and I have no doubt that
some of it ends up off the East Coast. 

Even with windows closed and masking tape on the seams, I'd wake up in
the middle of the night, coughing and choking, in Guinea-Bissau when the
Harmattan arrived. 

73,

Dave Heil K8MN

On 04-Dec-15 16:29, K1FZ-Bruce wrote:
> Watching NOVA on PBS last night. Diving into Blue water "sink holes". 
> Found evidence indicated that iron rich sand from the very dry Sarah 
> Desert had blown across the Atlantic to the Bahama Island region. 
> (possibly related to previous global warming period ?)
>
> Wondering, if this takes place again, will this semi conductive 
> material give us a leg up on propagation to Africa, and beyond ? (;>))
>



From Gary at ka1j.com  Sun Dec  6 15:48:34 2015
From: Gary at ka1j.com (Gary Smith)
Date: Sun, 06 Dec 2015 15:48:34 -0500
Subject: Topband: ARRL 160 this year
Message-ID: <56649F22.21169.E883187@Gary.ka1j.com>

Did my sojourn into the ARRL 160 this weekend. Interesting comparing 
last year to this year: Last year I was QRP and California and many 
DX were calling me and there was a fair QRN/M last year. I worked 
most everything I heard but it took time. 

This year I was also QRP but I made zero CA contacts, only worked GW 
& EI with the rest the usual Caribbean/Central American stations. The 
band was much quieter and though I could hear DX, my 5W didn't fare 
so well and their signals for the most part, weren't booming. There 
were many I could not work this year.

Conditions, conditions, conditions...

73,

Gary
KA1J

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus


From jim at audiosystemsgroup.com  Sun Dec  6 16:00:57 2015
From: jim at audiosystemsgroup.com (Jim Brown)
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2015 13:00:57 -0800
Subject: Topband: ARRL 160 this year
In-Reply-To: <56649F22.21169.E883187@Gary.ka1j.com>
References: <56649F22.21169.E883187@Gary.ka1j.com>
Message-ID: <5664A209.1080001@audiosystemsgroup.com>

On Sun,12/6/2015 12:48 PM, Gary Smith wrote:
> Conditions, conditions, conditions...

Yep. Pretty punk from here in W6. I got shut out on finishing QRP WAS. 
Must have called N4OGW a hundred times. KH6LC was calling too. Looks 
like Tor needs to work on his ears.

K8JQ was copyable Saturday morning but not Sunday morning. Saw N8II 
spotted, a K7 pretty close to his frequency, never copied him. Called 
WD5R a few times, no joy. Ditto for NO3M. This is the first 160 contest 
when I couldn't work these guys QRP. Heard some W2 and W3, AA1K was the 
only W1, and he was weak.

Best DX was WL7E and KH6LC. W0AIH was best DX to the east.

Let's hope the Stew Perry is better.

73, Jim K9YC

From radio75a3 at msn.com  Sun Dec  6 16:22:17 2015
From: radio75a3 at msn.com (Arthur Delibert)
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2015 16:22:17 -0500
Subject: Topband: Fwd: Re:  Future propagation ?
In-Reply-To: <566487D7.7060307@frontiernet.net>
References: <566487B3.6010104@frontiernet.net>,
	<566487D7.7060307@frontiernet.net>
Message-ID: <BLU177-W7671AD7E3263AAB0A53C9E40A0@phx.gbl>

In 1969, there was a project called BOMEX, which attempted to study very intensively a segment of the earth's atmosphere in the region of Barbados.  One of the things they found was a very fine dust, whose arrival followed -- by the appropriate length of time -- satellite images that showed dust storms blowing off the Sahara and over the Atlantic Ocean.

-- Art Delibert, KB3FJO

> To: topband at contesting.com
> From: k8mn at frontiernet.net
> Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2015 19:09:11 +0000
> Subject: Topband: Fwd: Re:  Future propagation ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -------- Forwarded Message --------
> Subject: Re: Topband: Future propagation ?
> Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2015 19:08:35 +0000
> From: Dave Heil <k8mn at frontiernet.net>
> To: k1fz at myfairpoint.net
> 
> See: http://www.britannica.com/science/harmattan
> 
> This dust from the Sahara is a yearly event and I have no doubt that
> some of it ends up off the East Coast.
> 
> Even with windows closed and masking tape on the seams, I'd wake up in
> the middle of the night, coughing and choking, in Guinea-Bissau when the
> Harmattan arrived.
> 
> 73,
> 
> Dave Heil K8MN
> 
> On 04-Dec-15 16:29, K1FZ-Bruce wrote:
> >   Watching NOVA on PBS last night.  Diving into Blue water "sink holes".  Found evidence indicated that iron rich sand from the very dry Sarah Desert had blown across the Atlantic to the Bahama Island region.
> > (possibly related to previous global warming period ?)
> >
> > Wondering, if this takes place again, will this semi conductive  material give us a leg up on propagation to Africa, and beyond ? (;>))
> >
> > 73
> > Bruce-K1FZ
> > www.qsl.net/k1fz/beverage_antenna.html
> >
> >
> > _________________
> > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> >
> > -----
> > No virus found in this message.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > Version: 2015.0.6176 / Virus Database: 4477/11112 - Release Date: 12/04/15
> >
> 
> 
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
 		 	   		  

From bradrehm at gmail.com  Sun Dec  6 17:24:28 2015
From: bradrehm at gmail.com (Brad Rehm)
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2015 16:24:28 -0600
Subject: Topband: ARRL 160 this year
In-Reply-To: <5664A209.1080001@audiosystemsgroup.com>
References: <56649F22.21169.E883187@Gary.ka1j.com>
	<5664A209.1080001@audiosystemsgroup.com>
Message-ID: <CABBfdyQZP8NDQ=uR=6EjEhWU_hw8ry_E6mHNfRa6fAdJZHqJeg@mail.gmail.com>

Same conclusions here in central Texas.  Lots of stations, but most were
barely readable.  I didn't hear any EU or Asian DX, partly because my
Beverage was down and partly (mostly) because, although the band was quiet,
conditions were sub-par.

I ran my TL-922 and an inverted-V (apex at 75 feet).  Last year it was an
inverted-L with elevated radials.  This time, I could still work everything
I could hear, but I might have heard more with the Bev and the Inv.-L.
Still, very enjoyable.

73, Brad  KV5V

On Sun, Dec 6, 2015 at 3:00 PM, Jim Brown <jim at audiosystemsgroup.com> wrote:

> On Sun,12/6/2015 12:48 PM, Gary Smith wrote:
>
>> Conditions, conditions, conditions...
>>
>
> Yep. Pretty punk from here in W6. I got shut out on finishing QRP WAS.
> Must have called N4OGW a hundred times. KH6LC was calling too. Looks like
> Tor needs to work on his ears.
>
> K8JQ was copyable Saturday morning but not Sunday morning. Saw N8II
> spotted, a K7 pretty close to his frequency, never copied him. Called WD5R
> a few times, no joy. Ditto for NO3M. This is the first 160 contest when I
> couldn't work these guys QRP. Heard some W2 and W3, AA1K was the only W1,
> and he was weak.
>
> Best DX was WL7E and KH6LC. W0AIH was best DX to the east.
>
> Let's hope the Stew Perry is better.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>

From art at nk8x.net  Sun Dec  6 19:45:45 2015
From: art at nk8x.net (Art Snapper)
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2015 19:45:45 -0500
Subject: Topband: ARRL 160 this year
In-Reply-To: <56649F22.21169.E883187@Gary.ka1j.com>
References: <56649F22.21169.E883187@Gary.ka1j.com>
Message-ID: <CAH6Jzymy2sM7GAvK4YFroG7NThx2J2KNz1FNbGBw43EhUjEjnw@mail.gmail.com>

There was significant aurora over the N. Atlantic and VE4,5,6,7 land last
night.

de Art NK8X
?

On Sun, Dec 6, 2015 at 3:48 PM, Gary Smith <Gary at ka1j.com> wrote:

> Did my sojourn into the ARRL 160 this weekend. Interesting comparing
> last year to this year: Last year I was QRP and California and many
> DX were calling me and there was a fair QRN/M last year. I worked
> most everything I heard but it took time.
>
> This year I was also QRP but I made zero CA contacts, only worked GW
> & EI with the rest the usual Caribbean/Central American stations. The
> band was much quieter and though I could hear DX, my 5W didn't fare
> so well and their signals for the most part, weren't booming. There
> were many I could not work this year.
>
> Conditions, conditions, conditions...
>
> 73,
>
> Gary
> KA1J
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>

From r_bakalov at yahoo.com  Sun Dec  6 20:07:07 2015
From: r_bakalov at yahoo.com (Rudy Bakalov)
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2015 20:07:07 -0500
Subject: Topband: 4SQ around tower
Message-ID: <909F967F-23D3-41A7-BF1C-03DCC26D5A19@yahoo.com>

I am in the process of clearing land for full size 80m 4SQ. I have two questions for the group:

1) How much and what kind of degradation should I see if I place the 4SQ elements around my tower. The tower is 90' and has a 4 el 40 m yagi at 90' and 6 el tribander at 105'. Currently I have no plans to detune the tower, but do have plans to use it as a 160m TX antenna.

2) If the consensus is to move the 4SQ away from the tower, how far should I move it? Also, in what direction should I move it with respect to the W and S elements of the 4SQ.

Rudy N2WQ

Sent using a tiny keyboard.  Please excuse brevity, typos, or inappropriate autocorrect.

From pa5kt at remijn.net  Mon Dec  7 03:06:03 2015
From: pa5kt at remijn.net (Henk PA5KT)
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2015 09:06:03 +0100
Subject: Topband: ON4KST low band chat
In-Reply-To: <CA+FxYXgUO_SePgVBaBB-qar1BxBbwBpkDaW6XD0m=2QABvNFkw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+FxYXixcMd7Hy_d-+0WPfckszkayMM4-kT6FDGjvJKTUSXGow@mail.gmail.com>
	<D716B9DF26FA49AF804E6A31CC024394@MomPC>
	<CA+FxYXgUfVkm-qmEDo3Hc+N1jHOePD2ANDwp7YqK0EGfZMjFWw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+FxYXg_1S=qRYdn66sezeek-F1u8sOS91Hg8DoJO3tPRgLDHw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN1acjYXydJrpzH2UAmf42YwYkcwNEAHwLsGcjjbZoe+4qtmKQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+FxYXgUO_SePgVBaBB-qar1BxBbwBpkDaW6XD0m=2QABvNFkw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56653DEB.8090003@remijn.net>

Hi,

I am connected to the chat almost all day.
I see most messages related to 160m. Did even not know it was also 40m. 
Did that recently change?

Think 60% is 160m, 30% 80m, 9% general messages and 1% 40m.

73 Henk PA5KT

Op 12/6/2015 om 05:48 schreef Mike Waters:
> Thanks, but that doesn't fix the 40m clutter in the ON4KST lowband chat.
> That's what I meant.
>
> For me, adding 40m to the chat simply ruined it. I'd be willing to pay to
> have it work like it used to, just 160 and 80.
>
> 73, Mike
> www.w0btu.com
>
>
> Menu
>> Change Settings
>> Cluster Spots Panel Configuration
>> Choose 1.8 for only 160 spots
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Dec 5, 2015 at 11:30 PM, Mike Waters <mikewate at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I don't see how to do that. How do we reduce it to just 80 and 160?
>>>
>>> Thanks and 73,
>>> Mike
>>> www.w0btu.com
>>>
>>> On Sat, Dec 5, 2015 at 10:23 PM, Mike Waters <mikewate at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thanks! I didn't see that option. I'll check it out.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Mike you can reduce it to just 80 and 160 as I have you don't need to do
>>>>> all 3 bands see the menu
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> When the ON4KST chat room combined 160, 80, and 40 into the "Low band
>>>>>> chat", it all of a sudden became WAY too cluttered for me. I was
>>> almost
>>>>>> ready to send a few bucks that way, but then that happened.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> All I care about is 160 meters, so I don't even use it anymore.
>>>>>>
>>> _________________
>>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>>
>>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


From Rodenkirch_LLC at msn.com  Mon Dec  7 04:57:58 2015
From: Rodenkirch_LLC at msn.com (James Rodenkirch)
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2015 09:57:58 +0000
Subject: Topband: ARRL 160 this year
In-Reply-To: <5664A209.1080001@audiosystemsgroup.com>
References: <56649F22.21169.E883187@Gary.ka1j.com>,
	<5664A209.1080001@audiosystemsgroup.com>
Message-ID: <SN1PR16MB0623A6849F30646BA5DCFA48F0090@SN1PR16MB0623.namprd16.prod.outlook.com>

I was listening when you and Lloyd were calling Tor, Jim --- I'd been calling him on and off earlier but no joy (he wudda been a new mult for me).

I had a little better "luck" into the east coast - worked VY2, ME, EPA and WPA, WNY, NC, NFL and VA - but that was all! Usually, we do mo betta than that.

Heard two JAs and HL5IVL Saturday morning and one JA Sunday morning but I was hugely disappointed when I couldn't work any of those - usually, put a half dozen in the log this time of year - so my score suffered. Band was super noisy Saturday morning and quiet as a church mouse Sunday morning (guess there was a large solar flare early Sunday).

Best of luck in the Stew - will be in south FL with our RV around Christmas time and through mid-April so zero 160 ops till the end of April.

71.5/72 de Jim Rodenkirch K9JWV
  
________________________________________
From: Topband <topband-bounces at contesting.com> on behalf of Jim Brown <jim at audiosystemsgroup.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 6, 2015 2:00 PM
To: topband at contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: ARRL 160 this year

On Sun,12/6/2015 12:48 PM, Gary Smith wrote:
> Conditions, conditions, conditions...

Yep. Pretty punk from here in W6. I got shut out on finishing QRP WAS.
Must have called N4OGW a hundred times. KH6LC was calling too. Looks
like Tor needs to work on his ears.

K8JQ was copyable Saturday morning but not Sunday morning. Saw N8II
spotted, a K7 pretty close to his frequency, never copied him. Called
WD5R a few times, no joy. Ditto for NO3M. This is the first 160 contest
when I couldn't work these guys QRP. Heard some W2 and W3, AA1K was the
only W1, and he was weak.

Best DX was WL7E and KH6LC. W0AIH was best DX to the east.

Let's hope the Stew Perry is better.

73, Jim K9YC
_________________
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

From ww4b73 at gmail.com  Mon Dec  7 11:51:30 2015
From: ww4b73 at gmail.com (Glenn Biggerstaff)
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2015 11:51:30 -0500
Subject: Topband: 9 circle array
Message-ID: <4BB7E673-DBF5-49B7-BEDF-DA6A2CA06C61@gmail.com>

Has anyone built the DX Engineering version of the YCCC 9 circle array ?I am considering one and would like anyone's feedback. I have read the NCJ article and was on the list for the original kit version until it got squashed. Also is anyone using the W7IUV preamp with an array of verticals? If so did you build it on a pc board or on perfboard?

Glenn, ww4b at ww4b.net



From tree at kkn.net  Mon Dec  7 12:05:49 2015
From: tree at kkn.net (Tree)
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2015 09:05:49 -0800
Subject: Topband: Hi-Z 4 Square versus Beverage
Message-ID: <CAKF9HhYYmC08bWJ6uELDXuDCGm3HXSNJBYXgRE_nOnZwRfmh0g@mail.gmail.com>

Hi All-

I have recently moved to a new QTH - at a rental house in the country - and
have totally rebuilt my 160 meter antenna system from the ground up.
Luckily - the landlord was okay with me putting up a tower - and I have 77
feet of tower with a MonsterIR on top of it.  I connected the two elements
at each end of the boom - to the boom (thanks ZL3IX for inspiration) and it
loads very nicely on 160 meters when tuned to 10 mHz.  I have 25 radials
down - and the transmit antenna works fantastic.

But - I wanted to share my results on the receiving side of the equation.
I purchased a used Hi-Z 4 square from K7FL (80 foot spacing) and it is
nestled into a side yard with the closest element only about 40 or 50 feet
from the transmit antenna.  A second element is about 70 feet away.  I have
been pretty happy with the performance of this array on RX.  It is situated
so it "points" just a bit east of due North (instead of the more typical NE
/ SE / SW / NW orientation).  That way it is dead on for EU - JA and the
East coast.

The landlord was also okay with me stringing a Beverage across the winter
wheat field - and I was able to put one up this weekend - pointing around
100 degrees - which is the heading I normally point for working domestic
contests.  According to Google maps - it is somewhere between 1200 and 1300
feet long.  It's about 4 - 5 feet in height - terminated with 450 Ohms and
fed with a homebrew 9:1 transformer (simple 3 windings in series - not
using an isolated ground).  The SWR was 1.2:1 when measured in the shack
with low power.

Comparing the Beverage to the 4 SQ was interesting.  Just around sunset on
the second day of the contest - signal strengths were nearly identical -
but I could hear a db or two less noise on the beverage.  However, an hour
or so after sunset - the noise seemed to be nearly identical.

The fact that the 4 SQ was holding its own compared to the Beverage was
great news.

I used both antennas with the diversity reception in my K3 - and was very
happy with the results.  The 4 SQ picked up the W6 / Arizona stations
better than the beverage - so those signals were easy to pick out by their
placement in the stereo image.  In the morning - I switched the 4 SQ
towards JA and could also easily tell when one was calling me.

Now it is raining hard this week - and it appears I will have lots of water
around the TX antenna - so I am looking forward to playing with it during
the next few weeks - and of course in the Stew Perry contest coming up on
December 26th.

http://www.kkn.net/stew/

73 Tree N6TR
Hillsboro, Oregon

From w0jx at yahoo.com  Mon Dec  7 12:45:16 2015
From: w0jx at yahoo.com (Dennis W0JX)
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2015 17:45:16 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Topband: 9 EL YCCC RX Array
References: <115044940.16746356.1449510316124.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <115044940.16746356.1449510316124.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

The 9 el is just an extension of the basic 3 elements in line building block of the W1FV design. I think that it is great that DXCC is selling the kits to build these arrays. Personally I think the 9 element is overkill. Only three elements are active at any time. There is also a 5 element version and there is no reason why you could not create a 7 element version. DXE has reduced the spacing to 60 feet between elements which produces a 120 foot diameter. This improves performance on 80 and 40.

I am in the process of constructing the 3 element, in line, basic array to use as a beverage equivalent. I also have a Hi-Z 4 square which is very effective and used as diversity receive antenna for my K3 on 160 through 30.

I suggest that the PDF manual located on the DXE website for the YCCC RX arrays be thoroughly read to understand how the antenna works and the kits are to be
constructed.

73, Dennis W0JX

From w8ji at w8ji.com  Mon Dec  7 12:48:39 2015
From: w8ji at w8ji.com (Tom W8JI)
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2015 12:48:39 -0500
Subject: Topband: 4SQ around tower
References: <909F967F-23D3-41A7-BF1C-03DCC26D5A19@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <38974D8F9D294C0AB8AB2DC3BCA106BA@MAIN>

>I am in the process of clearing land for full size 80m 4SQ. I have two 
>questions for the group:
>
> 1) How much and what kind of degradation should I see if I place the 4SQ 
> elements around my tower. The tower is 90' and has a 4 el 40 m yagi at 90' 
> and 6 el tribander at 105'. Currently I have no plans to detune the tower, 
> but do have plans to use it as a 160m TX antenna.
>
> 2) If the consensus is to move the 4SQ away from the tower, how far should 
> I move it? Also, in what direction should I move it with respect to the W 
> and S elements of the 4SQ.

What happens depends entirely on how the tower behaves on 160. It might 
cause great harm, or it might have no effect at all. There isn't a way to 
tell without either testing it or modeling it without EVERY metallic guy 
line and antenna accurately included in the model, along with ground points. 


From n2gz at gregzenger.com  Mon Dec  7 13:08:14 2015
From: n2gz at gregzenger.com (Greg Zenger)
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2015 13:08:14 -0500
Subject: Topband: 4SQ around tower
In-Reply-To: <909F967F-23D3-41A7-BF1C-03DCC26D5A19@yahoo.com>
References: <909F967F-23D3-41A7-BF1C-03DCC26D5A19@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAE8nip0aH+kAo=x9unZATyr11FUpX9jevW=Cn6O075V5_tfTZA@mail.gmail.com>

Take a look at section 6 of chapter 11 of ON4UNs book.

There is a whole discussion on a configuration very similar to what you
propose.

Greg N2GZ
On Dec 6, 2015 8:07 PM, "Rudy Bakalov via Topband" <topband at contesting.com>
wrote:

> I am in the process of clearing land for full size 80m 4SQ. I have two
> questions for the group:
>
> 1) How much and what kind of degradation should I see if I place the 4SQ
> elements around my tower. The tower is 90' and has a 4 el 40 m yagi at 90'
> and 6 el tribander at 105'. Currently I have no plans to detune the tower,
> but do have plans to use it as a 160m TX antenna.
>
> 2) If the consensus is to move the 4SQ away from the tower, how far should
> I move it? Also, in what direction should I move it with respect to the W
> and S elements of the 4SQ.
>
> Rudy N2WQ
>
> Sent using a tiny keyboard.  Please excuse brevity, typos, or
> inappropriate autocorrect.
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>

From co8dm at frcuba.co.cu  Mon Dec  7 13:17:57 2015
From: co8dm at frcuba.co.cu (Douglas Ruz (CO8DM))
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2015 13:17:57 -0500
Subject: Topband: 4SQ around tower
References: <909F967F-23D3-41A7-BF1C-03DCC26D5A19@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <B2C71BFF5045404288403EC0037639B7@Casa>

Hi Rudy,

Maybe i am wrong but i think Jorge, CX6VM/CW5W has something similar for 
160m.

Try contact him and ask about his experience.

I think he is member of this list.

GL with the project.

73....Douglas, CO8DM / T48K

"No creo que haya alguna emoci?n m?s intensa para un inventor que ver alguna 
de sus creaciones funcionando. Esa emoci?n hace que uno se olvide de comer, 
de dormir, de todo." - Nikola Tesla
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rudy Bakalov via Topband" <topband at contesting.com>
To: "Arthur Delibert" <radio75a3 at msn.com>
Cc: <topband at contesting.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2015 8:07 PM
Subject: Topband: 4SQ around tower


>I am in the process of clearing land for full size 80m 4SQ. I have two 
>questions for the group:
>
> 1) How much and what kind of degradation should I see if I place the 4SQ 
> elements around my tower. The tower is 90' and has a 4 el 40 m yagi at 90' 
> and 6 el tribander at 105'. Currently I have no plans to detune the tower, 
> but do have plans to use it as a 160m TX antenna.
>
> 2) If the consensus is to move the 4SQ away from the tower, how far should 
> I move it? Also, in what direction should I move it with respect to the W 
> and S elements of the 4SQ.
>
> Rudy N2WQ
>
> Sent using a tiny keyboard.  Please excuse brevity, typos, or 
> inappropriate autocorrect.
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband 


From r_bakalov at yahoo.com  Mon Dec  7 13:53:50 2015
From: r_bakalov at yahoo.com (Rudy Bakalov)
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2015 13:53:50 -0500
Subject: Topband: 4SQ around tower
In-Reply-To: <CAE8nip0aH+kAo=x9unZATyr11FUpX9jevW=Cn6O075V5_tfTZA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <909F967F-23D3-41A7-BF1C-03DCC26D5A19@yahoo.com>
	<CAE8nip0aH+kAo=x9unZATyr11FUpX9jevW=Cn6O075V5_tfTZA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FF457C37-110C-4A71-B840-8DAA7691EFF2@yahoo.com>

Greg,

Thanks for the great reminder! The chapter does in fact describe exactly what I have been planning. It also gave me the most important piece of information- as long as the tower is grounded, which is the case, it has no impact on the 80m 4SQ. The trees will be happy as I don't have to make extra room for the 4SQ

Rudy N2WQ

Sent using a tiny keyboard.  Please excuse brevity, typos, or inappropriate autocorrect.


> On Dec 7, 2015, at 1:08 PM, Greg Zenger <n2gz at gregzenger.com> wrote:
> 
> Take a look at section 6 of chapter 11 of ON4UNs book.
> 
> There is a whole discussion on a configuration very similar to what you
> propose.
> 
> Greg N2GZ
> On Dec 6, 2015 8:07 PM, "Rudy Bakalov via Topband" <topband at contesting.com>
> wrote:
> 
>> I am in the process of clearing land for full size 80m 4SQ. I have two
>> questions for the group:
>> 
>> 1) How much and what kind of degradation should I see if I place the 4SQ
>> elements around my tower. The tower is 90' and has a 4 el 40 m yagi at 90'
>> and 6 el tribander at 105'. Currently I have no plans to detune the tower,
>> but do have plans to use it as a 160m TX antenna.
>> 
>> 2) If the consensus is to move the 4SQ away from the tower, how far should
>> I move it? Also, in what direction should I move it with respect to the W
>> and S elements of the 4SQ.
>> 
>> Rudy N2WQ
>> 
>> Sent using a tiny keyboard.  Please excuse brevity, typos, or
>> inappropriate autocorrect.
>> _________________
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

From richard at karlquist.com  Mon Dec  7 14:00:27 2015
From: richard at karlquist.com (Richard (Rick) Karlquist)
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2015 11:00:27 -0800
Subject: Topband: 9 EL YCCC RX Array
In-Reply-To: <115044940.16746356.1449510316124.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <115044940.16746356.1449510316124.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<115044940.16746356.1449510316124.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5665D74B.2020103@karlquist.com>

On 12/7/2015 9:45 AM, Dennis W0JX via Topband wrote:
> The 9 el is just an extension of the basic 3 elements in line building block of the W1FV design. I think that it is great that DXCC is selling the kits to build these arrays. Personally I think the 9 element is overkill. Only three elements are active at any time. There is also a 5 element version and there is no reason why you could not create a 7 element version. DXE has reduced the spacing to 60 feet between elements which produces a 120 foot diameter. This improves performance on 80 and 40.
>
> I am in the process of constructing the 3 element, in line, basic array to use as a beverage equivalent. I also have a Hi-Z 4 square which is very effective and used as diversity receive antenna for my K3 on 160 through 30.
>
> I suggest that the PDF manual located on the DXE website for the YCCC RX arrays be thoroughly read to understand how the antenna works and the kits are to be
> constructed.
>
> 73, Dennis W0JX

Also, compare to my 7 element array, where
all elements are active.  Although it is
shown as a transmit array, I have also built
a receive version which uses an easy to
build phasing network.  See:

http://www.n6rk.com/7_hex_array.pdf
http://www.n6rk.com/driving_the_7_hex.pdf
http://www.n6rk.com/7_hex_eznec.html

I have only built a 40 meter scale model,
so I don't have any actual experience with
160 meters.

Rick N6RK





From k1whs at metrocast.net  Mon Dec  7 15:30:35 2015
From: k1whs at metrocast.net (Dave Olean)
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2015 20:30:35 -0000
Subject: Topband: Noise levels on 160
References: <mailman.25.1449507609.5017.topband@contesting.com>
Message-ID: <6CB1CA79037E4198B524D663252149C9@t30ce0d73e1b34>

I am somewhat new to 160 meters. I converted an old VHF tower at my house to 
a 160 M 1/4 wave radiator in late 2013 and have been active since then on a 
casual basis. Recently I started showing symptoms of the 160 Disease, and 
have been looking for ways to improve things. The XYL has nixed anything big 
(no more towers) so I am stuck with a single radiator, but I can still work 
on the receiving side. I just built up an Africa beverage (100 degree az) 
and was happy with the noise level on that antenna. It seems extremely low 
and about as good as my Europe beverage. Recently, I tried measuring each 
beverage and the vertical antenna to nail down the noise floor using my K3 
and P3 panadaptor. I wonder if these numbers are good and how they compare 
with other setups.  For the record, I set the P3 at the narrowest span, 2 
kHz. I used the preamp ON for the beverages and the preamp off for the 
vertical. I recorded these levels on late Saturday evening during the ARRL 
160 contest, and then again, the following Monday during the day.  I 
recorded the following numbers...

ANTENNA           NOISE LVL    DAYTIME
JA  330 deg            -133                -138
West 270 deg         -125                -130
SW  220 deg          -125                -132
Africa 100 deg         -136                -144
Europe  45 deg        -138                -142
Vertical Antenna      -115                -123

All measurements were taken with the P3 panadaptor set at 2 kHz span. That 
is important. K3 preamp is ON.  These numbers taken at night are a moving 
target. The noise can vary from hour to hour. I looked across the 2 kHz span 
of the P3 and averaged what I saw. I seem to hear reasonably well with the 
vertical, and in the past used it quite often. Now that I have a few 
beverages, I hardly ever listen on the vertical anymore. Both the 220 and 
270 degree beverages suffer from power line noise and are 10 dB noisier than 
the wires aimed East.  I am thinking about maybe nulling out the power line 
noise. I am sure that noise is killing my receive.
    I guess I should make a real measurement of my noise floor at a 
specified bandwidth of the receiver. That would require more work! I took 
the easy way and set the P3 at minimum span and looked at the "grass level". 
What numbers do others see on 160?
    I live in a rural area in Maine near the NH border.  I have a neighbor 
across the street and another two about 1000 to 1200 ft away. I think my 
location is pretty quiet, but I do often see interference that comes and 
goes. I always hear two electric fences. One is a single snap every second 
or so. The other is a pulsing burst of noise that lasts maybe 300 ms that 
repeats every second or so. There is also a rather broad drifting signal to 
my NE that is about 20 kHz wide and drifts around 1820 kHz. It is about 5 dB 
above the normal noise. I suspect it is a mile away, but have not found it 
yet.

Dave K1WHS


From w8ji at w8ji.com  Mon Dec  7 17:18:50 2015
From: w8ji at w8ji.com (Tom W8JI)
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2015 17:18:50 -0500
Subject: Topband: 4SQ around tower
References: <909F967F-23D3-41A7-BF1C-03DCC26D5A19@yahoo.com><CAE8nip0aH+kAo=x9unZATyr11FUpX9jevW=Cn6O075V5_tfTZA@mail.gmail.com>
	<FF457C37-110C-4A71-B840-8DAA7691EFF2@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <C4B4C31C22B6437D8DDF58BAE112ED49@MAIN>

> Thanks for the great reminder! The chapter does in fact describe exactly 
> what I have been planning. It also gave me the most important piece of 
> information- as long as the tower is grounded, which is the case, it has 
> no impact on the 80m 4SQ.
>


If that is the actual statement, it is not a correct statement except in a 
very specific case.  If the tower is empty of any other antennas or guy 
lines and the tower is around 100-150 feet tall and grounded at the base, it 
would have the minimum effect on an 80M 4 square.

Every area of the tower and the guy lines and everything else around the 4 
square must not be resonant on the band the 4 square is on.

>>A couple of points:

>1) The 4SQ is for 80, not 160. I am trying to decide if I should clear some 
>forest to make room for it or just place around the tower. If it goes in 
>the forest, radials become a nightmare

>2) Currently the tower is just a tower, not a 160m TX antenna. If the 80m 
>4SQ would suffer from gamma matching the tower than I have the option of 
>building a dedicated 160m vertical in a new location. A lot of work, but 
>less work than trying to lay radials in the forest.
>

Let me explain the issue a little better.

It doesn't matter one bit what anyone else does with a **different tower** 
on a different band or even on the same band. The center area of the 4square 
has very high field levels when the 4sq is active. The 4sq will couple into 
whatever is inside the 4 square, or around the 4sq on the outside.

If you just simply had a tower with insulated non-resonant guy wires, and if 
that tower was 120-140 feet tall and reasonably well grounded at the base, 
it would be almost perfectly non-resonant on 80M. It would have only a 
minimal effect on the 4 square.

The moment you add anything  to the tower that is metallic, the 
anti-resonant frequency will shift. How much anti-resonance shifts naturally 
depends on what is placed on the tower and where it is placed on the tower. 
This would even include feedlines that are not bonded to the tower, because 
they can act like parallel stubs. If they happen to shift the anti-resonance 
caused by the tower being about 1/2 wave long and grounded at the base, then 
you are in the soup. The first change will be a modification of F/B ratio, 
because the nulls are most sensitive to current ratios that will be upset by 
the presence of the tower. It does not take much re-radiation to hurt the 4 
square nulls. It takes more re-radiation to actually damage the gain.

A worse case example of this would be a tower 130 feet long grounded at the 
base. If I put a large 20M Yagi with grounded elements on the tower anywhere 
except down near ground level, the tower will no longer be anti-resonant on 
80. Moving the Yagi up and down the tower will change how the tower 
interacts, and there can be some very sour locations for the Yagi that would 
grossly affect the 4 square.

The thicker the tower is, the more difficult it is to make invisible. The 
more feedlines and antennas, the worse it is.

I have a 160 4 square surrounding a bare ~200 ft tall tower.  If I 
completely float that tower from ground, it just kills the performance of my 
4 square.  If I ground the tower, it knocks about 10-15 dB of F/B out of the 
4 square. I have to find a "sweet" value of reactance to put between the 
tower base and ground to make the 4 square behave.

If I put one Yagi on it, the Yagi mounting height and size would affect the 
impedance needed at the base to detune the tower. If I loaded that tower 
with Yagi's, I might never get it detuned. If I ran a feedline down the 
tower on the outside that was not bonded to the tower every 1/4 wave or 
closer on 160 (in my case where it is on 160), that might also cause an 
issue.

The case where we can carte blanche say there is minimal interaction would 
be when the tower is not too large a cross section, there are no metal guy 
lines attached, there is nothing else anywhere near resonance around, and 
the tower is about 1/2 wave tall and grounded at the base.

The mechanism that decouples the tower is the ground at the base plus the 
transmission line effect of the tower tries to create a very high impedance 
1/4 wave up, but that high impedance is "shorted" by the 1/4 wave section 
going up from the center to the open end. The top half tries to create a low 
impedance right where the bottom half tries to create a high impedance. 
This "detunes" the tower.

The thinner the tower, the better this works. Stick something else on the 
tower, and it all can change.

73 Tom



From mark.k3msb at gmail.com  Mon Dec  7 18:39:19 2015
From: mark.k3msb at gmail.com (Mark K3MSB)
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2015 18:39:19 -0500
Subject: Topband: 160M EWE Problems
Message-ID: <CABdVoaBQkPzQXhBjr-0wztzm3btiGX86m_ST0WSP4xDwfDNFyw@mail.gmail.com>

Greetings fellow Top Band enthusiasts!


I'm Mark K3MSB, and I live south of York PA.  This is my first time posting
to this list.


I?ve been licensed for 43 years and got on 160M in November 2014, so this
is the start of my second year.   Why I didn?t get on TB sooner is a
question I keep asking myself!   I?ve enjoyed the challenge of 80M DXing
for years, and I find 160M to be an even more challenging band!


Last year I used an Inverted-L for TX and RX.  The vertical part was 30
feet high and I used about a dozen ground radials.   I was very pleased
with its performance and was delighted to be able to work stations in
Europe.    This year I changed the Inverted-L;  the vertical section is now
up 50 feet and I?m using about 16 ground radials.


This year I also decided to put up a separate RX antenna.   I put up an EWE
oriented towards Europe.  Each leg is 10 feet tall, and the length is 50
feet.    The terminating resistor should be 1.2K, so I used a 2K
potentiometer set for the correct resistance.   The preamp is the
P1-30/20VD from Advance Receiver Research.


After attempting to use the EWE for a few weeks, I?m convinced the EWE
doesn?t work.  Obviously, since a lot of people use the EWE,  the antenna
design must work,  so it?s an installation or usage problem on my end
that?s the issue.     I hope some of you seasoned 160M men can help me out.


I have the terminating end supported by a fiberglass mast about 2 feet from
the end of my house (vinyl siding).  The transformer end is supported by a
rope to a tree, and the drop to ground on that end is vertical.    The
terminating end goes to a 4 foot ground rod.   The transformer end goes to
a 2 foot ground rod (septic line concerns prevent me from going deeper).


When I turn on the preamp, the noise level rises to the same level as that
heard with my Inverted-L.  Stations in Europe are sometimes at the same
signal level, but a lot of times much lower, so that I can hear them better
on the Inverted-L and not on the EWE.   Stations off the back of the EWE
sometimes are attenuated, but not all the time.


I tried adjusting the potentiometer, and that has no effect at all.   I did
this by running a long patch cable from the headphones jack on the
transceiver to the area of the terminating resistor.  I tuned in a
moderately strong station (off the back of the EWE) whose signal level was
fairly constant, and adjusted the pot while listening to the audio.  No
change at all.    Granted, the ear is not the best way to do this.


I have a noise issue here, and I think it?s man-made, but from reports of
160M hams in the area, I?m not sure it?s local.   The bandscope on the
radio shows a ragged saw tooth waveform .  When I switch from the
Inverted-L to the EWE, the ragged waveform goes away, but I do not see a
decrease in background noise as I expected.


My expectation of the EWE is that both signal and noise would go down
(relative to the Inverted-L), but the preamp would boost the signal higher
relative to the noise (although the signal level itself on the EWE would be
less than the Inverted-L).   As mentioned above, the noise level is
unchanged, and the signal is much more difficult to copy with the EWE.


It was suggested that I connect the two ground rods with a wire.  I did
this and it had no effect.


So, I?m open to any and all suggestions.


73 Mark K3MSB

From jkaufmann at alum.mit.edu  Mon Dec  7 20:33:38 2015
From: jkaufmann at alum.mit.edu (John Kaufmann)
Date: Mon, 07 Dec 2015 20:33:38 -0500
Subject: Topband: 9 circle array
In-Reply-To: <4BB7E673-DBF5-49B7-BEDF-DA6A2CA06C61@gmail.com>
References: <4BB7E673-DBF5-49B7-BEDF-DA6A2CA06C61@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <003e01d13158$76d44180$647cc480$@alum.mit.edu>

Hello TopBanders,

I am the author of the original NCJ article, published in September/October
and November/December issues, which is the basis for the YCCC/DX Engineering
RX array.  I also collaborated extensively with DXE to develop the kits that
are now available exclusively through DXE.  I should also give credit to
Tim, K3LR, on the DXE side for pushing through the collaboration with YCCC
that led to these kits now being available.  Please see:
http://www.dxengineering.com/search/brand/dx-engineering/product-line/yccc-r
eceive-vertical-array-kits-and-kit-packages.  On the YCCC side, WW1M also
gets credit for the original design work on PCB's and custom enclosures.

You can download a copy of the user's manual from:
http://static.dxengineering.com/global/images/instructions/dxe-yccc-3inline.
pdf.  There is extensive technical information on the arrays as well as
detailed kit building instructions in the manual.  To learn more about
what's available, please read the manual.  Please note that I have no
personal affiliation with DXE other than the collaboration I just described.
I make no money for my efforts.

Please direct your technical questions to mailto:yccctechsupport at verizon.net
and not to DX Engineering.  The e-mail comes directly to me but I prefer you
send e-mail to this address rather than to my personal e-mail address.  My
personal e-mail inbox fills up regularly with lots of unrelated messages and
it is easy for me to miss your e-mails.  The tech support e-mail goes to a
separate inbox where it gets my immediate attention.

I would also be interested in hearing from others who have built and
installed one of these systems.

73, John W1FV



-----Original Message-----
From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Glenn
Biggerstaff
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2015 11:52 AM
To: topband at contesting.com
Subject: Topband: 9 circle array

Has anyone built the DX Engineering version of the YCCC 9 circle array ?I am
considering one and would like anyone's feedback. I have read the NCJ
article and was on the list for the original kit version until it got
squashed. Also is anyone using the W7IUV preamp with an array of verticals?
If so did you build it on a pc board or on perfboard?

Glenn, ww4b at ww4b.net


_________________
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

From k9ay at k9ay.com  Mon Dec  7 21:56:17 2015
From: k9ay at k9ay.com (K9AY)
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2015 20:56:17 -0600
Subject: Topband: ARRL 160 stories
Message-ID: <0CAB1757E60A4A78BBB3E53AABE62355@pcone>

Once again, I will be doing the QST & ARRL Web writeup for the just-finished ARRL 160M Contest. If any of you Top Band denizens have a story to tell about the 'test, please send them to me (k9ay at k9ay.com) -- No need to repeat your 3830 posts, since I'll already have them.

My own operation was a modest part-time effort (12 hrs op time), low power unassisted. Band was quiet, but signals were not especially strong, which may have discouraged some ops. Still, there are always periodic 'waves' of much better propagation -- most of my 18 DX mults called in while I was CQing, usually with strong signals. Those are the fun moments!

73, Gary
K9AY


From wes at attawayforensics.com  Mon Dec  7 22:08:21 2015
From: wes at attawayforensics.com (Wes Attaway (N5WA))
Date: Mon, 07 Dec 2015 20:08:21 -0700
Subject: Topband: 160M EWE Problems
In-Reply-To: <CABdVoaBQkPzQXhBjr-0wztzm3btiGX86m_ST0WSP4xDwfDNFyw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABdVoaBQkPzQXhBjr-0wztzm3btiGX86m_ST0WSP4xDwfDNFyw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9385b47f9fe9847cd84ddef43d90936e@attawayforensics.com>

It sounds like you have a problem with either the terminating resistor 
or the matching transformer.  Or, there could be a problem with your 
switching if you have more than one EWE.  There is no reason why a EWE 
would behave the way you describe unless it is simply acting as a 
shortened U-shaped length of wire that is possibly coupling to your main 
TX antenna.

On 2015-12-07 16:39, Mark K3MSB wrote:
> Greetings fellow Top Band enthusiasts!
> 
> 
> I'm Mark K3MSB, and I live south of York PA.  This is my first time 
> posting
> to this list.
> 
> 
> I?ve been licensed for 43 years and got on 160M in November 2014, so 
> this
> is the start of my second year.   Why I didn?t get on TB sooner is a
> question I keep asking myself!   I?ve enjoyed the challenge of 80M 
> DXing
> for years, and I find 160M to be an even more challenging band!
> 
> 
> Last year I used an Inverted-L for TX and RX.  The vertical part was 30
> feet high and I used about a dozen ground radials.   I was very pleased
> with its performance and was delighted to be able to work stations in
> Europe.    This year I changed the Inverted-L;  the vertical section is 
> now
> up 50 feet and I?m using about 16 ground radials.
> 
> 
> This year I also decided to put up a separate RX antenna.   I put up an 
> EWE
> oriented towards Europe.  Each leg is 10 feet tall, and the length is 
> 50
> feet.    The terminating resistor should be 1.2K, so I used a 2K
> potentiometer set for the correct resistance.   The preamp is the
> P1-30/20VD from Advance Receiver Research.
> 
> 
> After attempting to use the EWE for a few weeks, I?m convinced the EWE
> doesn?t work.  Obviously, since a lot of people use the EWE,  the 
> antenna
> design must work,  so it?s an installation or usage problem on my end
> that?s the issue.     I hope some of you seasoned 160M men can help me 
> out.
> 
> 
> I have the terminating end supported by a fiberglass mast about 2 feet 
> from
> the end of my house (vinyl siding).  The transformer end is supported 
> by a
> rope to a tree, and the drop to ground on that end is vertical.    The
> terminating end goes to a 4 foot ground rod.   The transformer end goes 
> to
> a 2 foot ground rod (septic line concerns prevent me from going 
> deeper).
> 
> 
> When I turn on the preamp, the noise level rises to the same level as 
> that
> heard with my Inverted-L.  Stations in Europe are sometimes at the same
> signal level, but a lot of times much lower, so that I can hear them 
> better
> on the Inverted-L and not on the EWE.   Stations off the back of the 
> EWE
> sometimes are attenuated, but not all the time.
> 
> 
> I tried adjusting the potentiometer, and that has no effect at all.   I 
> did
> this by running a long patch cable from the headphones jack on the
> transceiver to the area of the terminating resistor.  I tuned in a
> moderately strong station (off the back of the EWE) whose signal level 
> was
> fairly constant, and adjusted the pot while listening to the audio.  No
> change at all.    Granted, the ear is not the best way to do this.
> 
> 
> I have a noise issue here, and I think it?s man-made, but from reports 
> of
> 160M hams in the area, I?m not sure it?s local.   The bandscope on the
> radio shows a ragged saw tooth waveform .  When I switch from the
> Inverted-L to the EWE, the ragged waveform goes away, but I do not see 
> a
> decrease in background noise as I expected.
> 
> 
> My expectation of the EWE is that both signal and noise would go down
> (relative to the Inverted-L), but the preamp would boost the signal 
> higher
> relative to the noise (although the signal level itself on the EWE 
> would be
> less than the Inverted-L).   As mentioned above, the noise level is
> unchanged, and the signal is much more difficult to copy with the EWE.
> 
> 
> It was suggested that I connect the two ground rods with a wire.  I did
> this and it had no effect.
> 
> 
> So, I?m open to any and all suggestions.
> 
> 
> 73 Mark K3MSB
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

From feutz at wctc.net  Mon Dec  7 22:57:59 2015
From: feutz at wctc.net (Ron Feutz)
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2015 21:57:59 -0600
Subject: Topband: 9 circle array
In-Reply-To: <003e01d13158$76d44180$647cc480$@alum.mit.edu>
References: <4BB7E673-DBF5-49B7-BEDF-DA6A2CA06C61@gmail.com>
	<003e01d13158$76d44180$647cc480$@alum.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <C03BBE1BC9ED4F5F97B6C7A619290C2D@OwnerPC>

The site I have available for one of these systems is part of the former 
radial field for my now-defunct 160M 4-square.  The RX array would go where 
the ground has radials from the former elements.  These radial wires are 
buried under years of accumulated tree stuff and it would not be practical 
to remove them.  The radials are not physically connected to the radial 
fields of the one or two transmit elements I will be using.

How would the old radial wires affect performance, if at all?

Ron KK9K



-----Original Message----- 
From: John Kaufmann
Sent: Monday, December 7, 2015 7:33 PM
To: 'Glenn Biggerstaff' ; topband at contesting.com
Cc: Bruce Herrick
Subject: Re: Topband: 9 circle array

Hello TopBanders,

I am the author of the original NCJ article, published in September/October
and November/December issues, which is the basis for the YCCC/DX Engineering
RX array.  I also collaborated extensively with DXE to develop the kits that
are now available exclusively through DXE.  I should also give credit to
Tim, K3LR, on the DXE side for pushing through the collaboration with YCCC
that led to these kits now being available.  Please see:
http://www.dxengineering.com/search/brand/dx-engineering/product-line/yccc-r
eceive-vertical-array-kits-and-kit-packages.  On the YCCC side, WW1M also
gets credit for the original design work on PCB's and custom enclosures.

You can download a copy of the user's manual from:
http://static.dxengineering.com/global/images/instructions/dxe-yccc-3inline.
pdf.  There is extensive technical information on the arrays as well as
detailed kit building instructions in the manual.  To learn more about
what's available, please read the manual.  Please note that I have no
personal affiliation with DXE other than the collaboration I just described.
I make no money for my efforts.

Please direct your technical questions to mailto:yccctechsupport at verizon.net
and not to DX Engineering.  The e-mail comes directly to me but I prefer you
send e-mail to this address rather than to my personal e-mail address.  My
personal e-mail inbox fills up regularly with lots of unrelated messages and
it is easy for me to miss your e-mails.  The tech support e-mail goes to a
separate inbox where it gets my immediate attention.

I would also be interested in hearing from others who have built and
installed one of these systems.

73, John W1FV



-----Original Message-----
From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Glenn
Biggerstaff
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2015 11:52 AM
To: topband at contesting.com
Subject: Topband: 9 circle array

Has anyone built the DX Engineering version of the YCCC 9 circle array ?I am
considering one and would like anyone's feedback. I have read the NCJ
article and was on the list for the original kit version until it got
squashed. Also is anyone using the W7IUV preamp with an array of verticals?
If so did you build it on a pc board or on perfboard?

Glenn, ww4b at ww4b.net


_________________
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
_________________
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband



From jkaufmann at alum.mit.edu  Tue Dec  8 07:16:41 2015
From: jkaufmann at alum.mit.edu (John Kaufmann)
Date: Tue, 08 Dec 2015 07:16:41 -0500
Subject: Topband: 9 circle array
In-Reply-To: <C03BBE1BC9ED4F5F97B6C7A619290C2D@OwnerPC>
References: <4BB7E673-DBF5-49B7-BEDF-DA6A2CA06C61@gmail.com>
	<003e01d13158$76d44180$647cc480$@alum.mit.edu>
	<C03BBE1BC9ED4F5F97B6C7A619290C2D@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <002601d131b2$4c4009e0$e4c01da0$@alum.mit.edu>

In general, any metal in the near field of the array will have an effect on
pattern.  This includes radials under the array.  It's hard to predict what
the results will be in a particular situation, but it can be modeled in
EZNEC or other modeling programs.  I've done this in the past and the
results for particular situations range from negligible effects to
significant pattern distortion.   This is also true for any other receiving
array system.  Such antennas are sensitive to metallic objects nearby, and
this needs to be taken into account in laying out an array.

My RX array is installed over the outer part of the radial field for my 160m
transmit vertical system.  Modeling predicted little effect and in practice
I can't say I see any degradation in RX array performance. I also have a
switching arrangement that detunes the transmit vertical while I'm receiving
on the RX array.  This arrangement is described in the user's manual.

73, John W1FV

-----Original Message-----
From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Ron Feutz
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2015 10:58 PM
To: topband at contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: 9 circle array

The site I have available for one of these systems is part of the former
radial field for my now-defunct 160M 4-square.  The RX array would go where
the ground has radials from the former elements.  These radial wires are
buried under years of accumulated tree stuff and it would not be practical
to remove them.  The radials are not physically connected to the radial
fields of the one or two transmit elements I will be using.

How would the old radial wires affect performance, if at all?

Ron KK9K





From jkaufmann at alum.mit.edu  Tue Dec  8 07:23:42 2015
From: jkaufmann at alum.mit.edu (John Kaufmann)
Date: Tue, 08 Dec 2015 07:23:42 -0500
Subject: Topband: 9 circle array
In-Reply-To: <003e01d13158$76d44180$647cc480$@alum.mit.edu>
References: <4BB7E673-DBF5-49B7-BEDF-DA6A2CA06C61@gmail.com>
	<003e01d13158$76d44180$647cc480$@alum.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <002701d131b3$478a7ba0$d69f72e0$@alum.mit.edu>

In my earlier post, I neglected to mention the NCJ article was published in
2011.

73, John W1FV

-----Original Message-----
From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of John
Kaufmann
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2015 8:34 PM
To: 'Glenn Biggerstaff'; topband at contesting.com
Cc: Bruce Herrick
Subject: Re: Topband: 9 circle array

Hello TopBanders,

I am the author of the original NCJ article, published in September/October
and November/December issues, which is the basis for the YCCC/DX Engineering
RX array.  


From k1uo at tds.net  Tue Dec  8 10:56:22 2015
From: k1uo at tds.net (Larry - K1UO)
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2015 10:56:22 -0500
Subject: Topband: K3 Noise Blanker  problem?
Message-ID: <1375DB3109FD4BAEBFF1DF2449D0FFDB@DenComputer>

Hello all..    This AM on 160 meters there was a station CQing on 1.820.6 with a fundamental freq signal strength of S9 on my K3.  I also found (with the NB on) that I could hear him Q5 but very weak on 1.810.6 and the same S 0 reading but perfectly Q5  on 1.830.6.  I turned the noise blanker off and of course the images disappeared.  Is this a know problem when using the NB or is this just with my radio after a recent factory alignment?   I have had a K3 for years and never noticed anything like that before but then again this AM was very quiet on 160M and I had the NB on because I could hear a distant tick tick of an electric fence.

From k2owr at comcast.net  Tue Dec  8 11:06:23 2015
From: k2owr at comcast.net (K4OWR)
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2015 11:06:23 -0500
Subject: Topband: K3 Noise Blanker problem?
In-Reply-To: <1375DB3109FD4BAEBFF1DF2449D0FFDB@DenComputer>
References: <1375DB3109FD4BAEBFF1DF2449D0FFDB@DenComputer>
Message-ID: <5666FFFF.6000201@comcast.net>

:::: This is a normal happening with most noise blankers and strong 
signals. I'm surprised that you have never experienced this before. I 
run into this all the time when stations using their noise blanker hear 
my signal very strong and complain that my signal is in several places. 
I advise them to temporarily turn off the blanker and the problem will 
go away. If your blanker is variable, try turning it down; or better yet 
avoid using it and rcve on your Beverage....if you have one.
BILL K4OWR

On 12/8/2015 10:56 AM, Larry - K1UO wrote:
> Hello all..    This AM on 160 meters there was a station CQing on 1.820.6 with a fundamental freq signal strength of S9 on my K3.  I also found (with the NB on) that I could hear him Q5 but very weak on 1.810.6 and the same S 0 reading but perfectly Q5  on 1.830.6.  I turned the noise blanker off and of course the images disappeared.  Is this a know problem when using the NB or is this just with my radio after a recent factory alignment?   I have had a K3 for years and never noticed anything like that before but then again this AM was very quiet on 160M and I had the NB on because I could hear a distant tick tick of an electric fence.
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>


From jbattin at msn.com  Tue Dec  8 12:00:19 2015
From: jbattin at msn.com (john)
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2015 11:00:19 -0600
Subject: Topband: FW:  9 circle array
In-Reply-To: <COL125-W5101991FC018F460754BD2AB080@phx.gbl>
References: <4BB7E673-DBF5-49B7-BEDF-DA6A2CA06C61@gmail.com>,
	<003e01d13158$76d44180$647cc480$@alum.mit.edu>,
	<002701d131b3$478a7ba0$d69f72e0$@alum.mit.edu>,
	<COL125-W5101991FC018F460754BD2AB080@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <COL125-W47400BFA347AC6679B3555AB080@phx.gbl>






When I  had my 9 element array going in the early 2000's, I did a receive only version with 20 foot verticals. It worked great and compared favorably with the full size antenna. It is still in place at K9RO in Wisconsin. All elements are active. It is patterned after the W0UN design in ON4UN"s book. My array is also in the book. I had every imaginable beverage, and the array was as good or better than the best of them 95% of the time. Most of the 5% were times of high angle, when things are very unpredictable, often favoring  a low dipole. The winner was diversity with one channel array and one channel switchable beverage.
 
John K9DX
 
 

 
> From: jkaufmann at alum.mit.edu
> To: topband at contesting.com
> Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2015 07:23:42 -0500
> Subject: Re: Topband: 9 circle array
> 
> In my earlier post, I neglected to mention the NCJ article was published in
> 2011.
> 
> 73, John W1FV
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of John
> Kaufmann
> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2015 8:34 PM
> To: 'Glenn Biggerstaff'; topband at contesting.com
> Cc: Bruce Herrick
> Subject: Re: Topband: 9 circle array
> 
> Hello TopBanders,
> 
> I am the author of the original NCJ article, published in September/October
> and November/December issues, which is the basis for the YCCC/DX Engineering
> RX array.  
> 
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
 		 	   		   		 	   		  

From tree at kkn.net  Tue Dec  8 12:01:00 2015
From: tree at kkn.net (Tree)
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2015 09:01:00 -0800
Subject: Topband: K3 Noise Blanker problem?
In-Reply-To: <1375DB3109FD4BAEBFF1DF2449D0FFDB@DenComputer>
References: <1375DB3109FD4BAEBFF1DF2449D0FFDB@DenComputer>
Message-ID: <CAKF9HhZ_2oT3tBY44Cfsym4jEQqdWzpk5EWRhr4pbdHrfCW9KQ@mail.gmail.com>

The K3 has two noise blankers.  Likely the image you are hearing is caused
by the IF noise blanker.  If you turn that one off - and just use the DSP
one - you will likely find the image disappears.

Whenever possible - if you can deal with a noise just with the DSP blanker
- you will be less affected by strong signals that are outside the
bandwidth of the selected crystal filter.

Tree N6TR

On Tue, Dec 8, 2015 at 7:56 AM, Larry - K1UO <k1uo at tds.net> wrote:

> Hello all..    This AM on 160 meters there was a station CQing on 1.820.6
> with a fundamental freq signal strength of S9 on my K3.  I also found (with
> the NB on) that I could hear him Q5 but very weak on 1.810.6 and the same S
> 0 reading but perfectly Q5  on 1.830.6.  I turned the noise blanker off and
> of course the images disappeared.  Is this a know problem when using the NB
> or is this just with my radio after a recent factory alignment?   I have
> had a K3 for years and never noticed anything like that before but then
> again this AM was very quiet on 160M and I had the NB on because I could
> hear a distant tick tick of an electric fence.
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>

From w2sh at msn.com  Tue Dec  8 17:25:02 2015
From: w2sh at msn.com (Charles Moizeau)
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2015 17:25:02 -0500
Subject: Topband: Topband QRP WAS
In-Reply-To: <CAJ_qRvaQrHKbfBq+M_SSm3m6LpG-93U+vypSX=msde+OCJ+DZg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <56627845.8040401@audiosystemsgroup.com>,
	<5663137D.8030802@karlquist.com>,
	<566323E0.1000502@audiosystemsgroup.com>,
	<CAJ_qRvaQrHKbfBq+M_SSm3m6LpG-93U+vypSX=msde+OCJ+DZg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <COL127-W364657AF429C6B28AA980C9B080@phx.gbl>

Incorrect date and day.  According to NAQCC their annual NAQCC 160m sprint will occur in North America on FRIDAY, 15 January 2016.  This can be seen at:

http://www.naqcc.info/SprintEastern.txt

72,

Charles, W2SH 

> Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2015 14:49:47 -0500
> From: tshoppa at gmail.com
> To: jim at audiosystemsgroup.com
> Subject: Re: Topband: Topband QRP WAS
> CC: topband at contesting.com
> 
> Jim, since you bring up QRP on 160M, I would like to promote the upcoming
> NAQCC 160M QRP sprint. 0130Z-0330Z January 13 2016 (which I think means
> it's our Tuesday night). http://naqcc.info/sprint201601_160.html
> 
> I usually participate and enjoy it, but do not always send in my log due to
> the required obtuse log format.
> 
> Tim N3QE
> 
> On Sat, Dec 5, 2015 at 12:50 PM, Jim Brown <jim at audiosystemsgroup.com>
> wrote:
> 
> > On Sat,12/5/2015 8:40 AM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist wrote:
> >
> >> Last night, I worked several CT, KY, and SC, and at least 1 MS.
> >>
> >
> > I found condx pretty stinko last night to the east coast. Lots of W1
> > spotted, none heard. K8JQ was heard, but not loud. The very dependable NO3M
> > and WD5R were not very loud and didn't hear me. Let's hope tonight is
> > better.
> >
> > Yes, N4OGW and WQ5L are good ops with a decent signal from MS, but both
> > seem to go to bed too early to work from W6. :)
> >
> >
> > On Sat,12/5/2015 8:01 AM, K4OWR wrote:
> >
> >> I have had great success contesting on this band (avg 1000qs) but not
> >> really much DX. My country total is about 15. I'm reading here about some
> >> people working DX and wondering about when I need to get on to hear this
> >> stuff. I see the word "overnight" but wondering around what time is best.
> >> I'm in east TN.
> >>
> >
> > 160M is an all night band, and 160 contests are all night contests.
> > Conditions often vary quite a lot through the night and from one night to
> > another.  From the beginning of the contest (around 5 pm EST) work EU, AF,
> > SA, and NA until local sunrise at the DX QTH. Through the night and until
> > about 30 minutes after your own sunrise, work west.  Signals to the west
> > will peak at their sunset and again in the hour or so around your sunrise.
> > Beverages and other dedicated RX antennas will help pull out weaker signals.
> >
> > In addition to all of that, with legal limit power and decent vertical
> > antenna, I can work 800 miles in the daylight hours.
> >
> > 73, Jim K9YC Santa Cruz, CA
> >
> > _________________
> > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> >
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
 		 	   		  

From mikewate at gmail.com  Tue Dec  8 19:31:40 2015
From: mikewate at gmail.com (Mike Waters)
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2015 18:31:40 -0600
Subject: Topband: ON4KST low band chat
In-Reply-To: <56653DEB.8090003@remijn.net>
References: <CA+FxYXixcMd7Hy_d-+0WPfckszkayMM4-kT6FDGjvJKTUSXGow@mail.gmail.com>
	<D716B9DF26FA49AF804E6A31CC024394@MomPC>
	<CA+FxYXgUfVkm-qmEDo3Hc+N1jHOePD2ANDwp7YqK0EGfZMjFWw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+FxYXg_1S=qRYdn66sezeek-F1u8sOS91Hg8DoJO3tPRgLDHw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN1acjYXydJrpzH2UAmf42YwYkcwNEAHwLsGcjjbZoe+4qtmKQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+FxYXgUO_SePgVBaBB-qar1BxBbwBpkDaW6XD0m=2QABvNFkw@mail.gmail.com>
	<56653DEB.8090003@remijn.net>
Message-ID: <CA+FxYXhjczpy1PhsPKuqcyz4o3Q5M5VTPhn5tDH00H-UX_Maeg@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you. It looks like things have improved. I'll check it out soon.

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com

On Mon, Dec 7, 2015 at 2:06 AM, Henk PA5KT <pa5kt at remijn.net> wrote:

>
> I am connected to the chat almost all day.
> I see most messages related to 160m. Did even not know it was also 40m.
> Did that recently change?
>
> Think 60% is 160m, 30% 80m, 9% general messages and 1% 40m.
>
> 73 Henk PA5KT
>
> Op 12/6/2015 om 05:48 schreef Mike Waters:
>
> Thanks, but that doesn't fix the 40m clutter in the ON4KST lowband chat.
>> That's what I meant.
>>
>> For me, adding 40m to the chat simply ruined it. I'd be willing to pay to
>> have it work like it used to, just 160 and 80. <http://www.w0btu.com>
>>
>> ...
>> Menu
>>
>>> Change Settings
>>> Cluster Spots Panel Configuration
>>> Choose 1.8 for only 160 spots
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Dec 5, 2015 at 11:30 PM, Mike Waters <mikewate at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I don't see how to do that. How do we reduce it to just 80 and 160?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks and 73,
>>>> Mike
>>>> www.w0btu.com
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Dec 5, 2015 at 10:23 PM, Mike Waters <mikewate at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Thanks! I didn't see that option. I'll check it out.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Mike you can reduce it to just 80 and 160 as I have you don't need to
>>>>> do
>>>>>
>>>>>> all 3 bands see the menu
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When the ON4KST chat room combined 160, 80, and 40 into the "Low band
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> chat", it all of a sudden became WAY too cluttered for me. I was
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> almost
>>>>
>>>>> ready to send a few bucks that way, but then that happened.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> All I care about is 160 meters, so I don't even use it anymore.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>

From mikewate at gmail.com  Tue Dec  8 19:45:23 2015
From: mikewate at gmail.com (Mike Waters)
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2015 18:45:23 -0600
Subject: Topband: Noise levels on 160
In-Reply-To: <6CB1CA79037E4198B524D663252149C9@t30ce0d73e1b34>
References: <mailman.25.1449507609.5017.topband@contesting.com>
	<6CB1CA79037E4198B524D663252149C9@t30ce0d73e1b34>
Message-ID: <CA+FxYXhqnpkH_WwVWJqhbYV0N00wmZK8gPBOdEX6yizxog_JcQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Dave,

Did anyone respond to you about this? (If I wasn't so busy right now, I
would.) But I believe that the answers may be in the searchable archives.

http://lists.contesting.com/archives//html/Topband/
http://lists.contesting.com/pipermail/topband/
http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/topband

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com

On Mon, Dec 7, 2015 at 2:30 PM, Dave Olean <k1whs at metrocast.net> wrote:

> I am somewhat new to 160 meters. I converted an old VHF tower at my house
> to a 160 M 1/4 wave radiator in late 2013 and have been active since then
> on a casual basis. Recently I started showing symptoms of the 160 Disease,
> and have been looking for ways to improve things. The XYL has nixed
> anything big (no more towers) so I am stuck with a single radiator, but I
> can still work on the receiving side. I just built up an Africa beverage
> (100 degree az) and was happy with the noise level on that antenna. It
> seems extremely low and about as good as my Europe beverage. Recently, I
> tried measuring each beverage and the vertical antenna to nail down the
> noise floor using my K3 and P3 panadaptor. I wonder if these numbers are
> good and how they compare with other setups.  For the record, I set the P3
> at the narrowest span, 2 kHz. I used the preamp ON for the beverages and
> the preamp off for the vertical. I recorded these levels on late Saturday
> evening during the ARRL 160 contest, and then again, the following Monday
> during the day.  I recorded the following numbers...
>
> ANTENNA           NOISE LVL    DAYTIME
> JA  330 deg            -133                -138
> West 270 deg         -125                -130
> SW  220 deg          -125                -132
> Africa 100 deg         -136                -144
> Europe  45 deg        -138                -142
> Vertical Antenna      -115                -123
>
> All measurements were taken with the P3 panadaptor set at 2 kHz span. That
> is important. K3 preamp is ON.  These numbers taken at night are a moving
> target. The noise can vary from hour to hour. I looked across the 2 kHz
> span of the P3 and averaged what I saw. I seem to hear reasonably well with
> the vertical, and in the past used it quite often. Now that I have a few
> beverages, I hardly ever listen on the vertical anymore. Both the 220 and
> 270 degree beverages suffer from power line noise and are 10 dB noisier
> than the wires aimed East.  I am thinking about maybe nulling out the power
> line noise. I am sure that noise is killing my receive.
>    I guess I should make a real measurement of my noise floor at a
> specified bandwidth of the receiver. That would require more work! I took
> the easy way and set the P3 at minimum span and looked at the "grass
> level". What numbers do others see on 160?
>    I live in a rural area in Maine near the NH border.  I have a neighbor
> across the street and another two about 1000 to 1200 ft away. I think my
> location is pretty quiet, but I do often see interference that comes and
> goes. I always hear two electric fences. One is a single snap every second
> or so. The other is a pulsing burst of noise that lasts maybe 300 ms that
> repeats every second or so. There is also a rather broad drifting signal to
> my NE that is about 20 kHz wide and drifts around 1820 kHz. It is about 5
> dB above the normal noise. I suspect it is a mile away, but have not found
> it yet.
>
> Dave K1WHS
>

From mark.k3msb at gmail.com  Tue Dec  8 19:49:33 2015
From: mark.k3msb at gmail.com (Mark K3MSB)
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2015 19:49:33 -0500
Subject: Topband: 160M EWE Problems
In-Reply-To: <CABdVoaBQkPzQXhBjr-0wztzm3btiGX86m_ST0WSP4xDwfDNFyw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABdVoaBQkPzQXhBjr-0wztzm3btiGX86m_ST0WSP4xDwfDNFyw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABdVoaAHXmDxGBpFiDPm1W3Hs-CXYjUis7P1Gjd3vQw5pU_CSQ@mail.gmail.com>

Good Evening Everyone


Thank you for all the responses, some public, some private.   Since some
content overlapped,  I?ll post my answers to the group.


I replaced the 2K pot with a 1.2K resistor.  No change.


I disconnected the feedline at the base of the Inverted-L (simulating a
relay).  No change

.

The EWE is aimed directly at the vertical part of the inverted-L, about 25
to 30 feet away.   The transformer end is towards the Inv-L.    I didn?t
think about that when I put it up.


One radial passes the transformer end of the EWE by about 4 feet.  No
radials pass under the EWE.


I took some pix of the bandscope / S-Meter tonight:


http://www.k3msb.com/temp/INVL_No_NB_NR.jpg

http://www.k3msb.com/temp/INVL_With_NB_NR.jpg

http://www.k3msb.com/temp/EWE.jpg


<http://www.k3msb.com/temp/EWE.jpg>

Here are some measurements (taken before the above photos were taken, so
there isn?t necessary any correlation to the measurements and the photos?.

With the INV-L feedline disconnected:

EWE:  S5  1.2 Khz filter    NB no effect

           S3-4  500 Hz filter   NB no effect

           S2-3  250 Hz filter    NB no effect



With the INV-L feedline connected:

EWE:  S5.5  1.2 Khz filter    NB no effect

            S4  500 Hz filter   NB no effect

            S1-2 250 Hz filter    NB no effect


INV-L  (NB/NR OFF)

      S7-8  1.2 Khz filter

      S5  500 Hz filter

      S3-4 250 Hz filter


INV-L  (NB/NR ON)

      S2-3  1.2 Khz filter

      S1-2  500 Hz filter

      S1 250 Hz filter


The noise looks partially artificial.  I?ve done the gig of popping all the
breakers in my house (except the one that powers the radios) with no effect
on the noise.


Using a portable radio, I swept the entire house and found nothing that
caused the noise issue go away.   I didn?t turn off the cable modem  (need
to keep the inmates happy?.), but we got our cable modem in January, and
this problem pre-dates it.


Drove up an down my country road tonight with the car BC radio on as well
as the portable battery radio.  The car radio didn?t pick up anything;
pretty quiet.  The portable radio picked up hum, but it was everywhere I
went (including inside the house); when I plugged the portable radio into
the house mains, the hum went away.


I had my neighbor turn off his dusk/dawn light ? no change in the noise.


The only thing I haven't yet checked is the matching transformer.


73 Mark K3MSB

From mark.k3msb at gmail.com  Tue Dec  8 19:54:56 2015
From: mark.k3msb at gmail.com (Mark K3MSB)
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2015 19:54:56 -0500
Subject: Topband: 160M EWE Problems
In-Reply-To: <CABdVoaBQkPzQXhBjr-0wztzm3btiGX86m_ST0WSP4xDwfDNFyw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABdVoaBQkPzQXhBjr-0wztzm3btiGX86m_ST0WSP4xDwfDNFyw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABdVoaCKw1JC70ikzZEn8ChfQLLWLHbuo=is58A+9Q3AJHfDrw@mail.gmail.com>

By the way,  there is a thread on 160M Noise Levels that is active.

Is the noise that I'm seeing common to what others are seeing?   If it is,
that means it's not local to me (which doesn't mitigate the EWE issue.....)

73 Mark K3MSB

From Cqtestk4xs at aol.com  Wed Dec  9 17:34:06 2015
From: Cqtestk4xs at aol.com (Cqtestk4xs at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2015 17:34:06 -0500
Subject: Topband: Ideas for xmit antennas for new QTH in KH6
Message-ID: <428758.396d2cf4.439a065e@aol.com>

Next year I'll be building a new home and station in  Hawaii.
 
40 through 6 meters is already set in stone, but 80 and 160 are  still 
cloudy.
 
Here's the setup:
 
I'm allowed one tower maximum 90 ft.  The tower will be 90 ft  of Rohn 55 
using a K0XG rotating system with two rings.  It will be guyed  using 
fiberglass guys.  There will be a bunch of HF VHF stuff on the  tower.  Three 
tribanders, two 12/17 meter Yagis, a 40 meter Yagi and way  down on the bottom 
two 6 meter antennas.
 
The tower sits on VERY uneven ground.  Although the lot   measures 12 
acres, I am using only the top three and renting out the rest of the  land to a 
farmer to keep taxes from being crazy high.
 
The ground is pure alluvial red fine particle soil (no stones) and  has a 
depth of about 6 feet before hitting rock. Since the east side of  Hawaii 
gets at least 100 inches of rain a year it is usually pretty  moist.  I would 
assume the soil is at least average or better in  conductivity.  I can run 
ropes, wires etc off the tower at the 80 and 40  foot guy points, but can not 
connect directly to the tower since the tower  rotates.  The is no room for 
a rotating dipole on the tower for  80.
 
I've used quad triangle loops before with the pointed end on the  bottom 
suspended by wires and am leaning towards that since the ground is so  uneven 
and the terrain difference would be a real negative for a 4 square (I  
think).
 
On 160 I'm leaning toward a wire vertical suspended from a rope  coming 
from the tower which would make the antenna about 65 or 70 feet tall and  to 
compensate for that I would make it a T-top.
 
For rx I have lots of room to run a 700 -900 Beverage to JA and  another to 
EU/USA direction, so that isn't a problem.
 
I do need suggestions for my 80 and 160 tx situation.  Any  ideas?

From herbs at vitelcom.net  Wed Dec  9 17:39:32 2015
From: herbs at vitelcom.net (Herbert Schoenbohm)
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2015 18:39:32 -0400
Subject: Topband: Ideas for xmit antennas for new QTH in KH6
In-Reply-To: <428758.396d2cf4.439a065e@aol.com>
References: <428758.396d2cf4.439a065e@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5668ADA4.8070002@vitelcom.net>

Is there anyway you can put a slip ring to support a T antenna (Marconi) 
for 160 and 80 at some height that won't snag the beam elements?


Herb, KV4FZ

On 12/9/2015 6:34 PM, Cqtestk4xs--- via Topband wrote:
> Next year I'll be building a new home and station in  Hawaii.
>   
> 40 through 6 meters is already set in stone, but 80 and 160 are  still
> cloudy.
>   
> Here's the setup:
>   
> I'm allowed one tower maximum 90 ft.  The tower will be 90 ft  of Rohn 55
> using a K0XG rotating system with two rings.  It will be guyed  using
> fiberglass guys.  There will be a bunch of HF VHF stuff on the  tower.  Three
> tribanders, two 12/17 meter Yagis, a 40 meter Yagi and way  down on the bottom
> two 6 meter antennas.
>   
> The tower sits on VERY uneven ground.  Although the lot   measures 12
> acres, I am using only the top three and renting out the rest of the  land to a
> farmer to keep taxes from being crazy high.
>   
> The ground is pure alluvial red fine particle soil (no stones) and  has a
> depth of about 6 feet before hitting rock. Since the east side of  Hawaii
> gets at least 100 inches of rain a year it is usually pretty  moist.  I would
> assume the soil is at least average or better in  conductivity.  I can run
> ropes, wires etc off the tower at the 80 and 40  foot guy points, but can not
> connect directly to the tower since the tower  rotates.  The is no room for
> a rotating dipole on the tower for  80.
>   
> I've used quad triangle loops before with the pointed end on the  bottom
> suspended by wires and am leaning towards that since the ground is so  uneven
> and the terrain difference would be a real negative for a 4 square (I
> think).
>   
> On 160 I'm leaning toward a wire vertical suspended from a rope  coming
> from the tower which would make the antenna about 65 or 70 feet tall and  to
> compensate for that I would make it a T-top.
>   
> For rx I have lots of room to run a 700 -900 Beverage to JA and  another to
> EU/USA direction, so that isn't a problem.
>   
> I do need suggestions for my 80 and 160 tx situation.  Any  ideas?
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


From jim at audiosystemsgroup.com  Wed Dec  9 19:52:40 2015
From: jim at audiosystemsgroup.com (Jim Brown)
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2015 16:52:40 -0800
Subject: Topband: Ideas for xmit antennas for new QTH in KH6
In-Reply-To: <428758.396d2cf4.439a065e@aol.com>
References: <428758.396d2cf4.439a065e@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5668CCD8.2000209@audiosystemsgroup.com>

On Wed,12/9/2015 2:34 PM, Cqtestk4xs--- via Topband wrote:
> On 160 I'm leaning toward a wire vertical suspended from a rope  coming
> from the tower which would make the antenna about 65 or 70 feet tall and  to
> compensate for that I would make it a T-top.

I like that idea, Bill. Also, if you can think of a way to do it, 
consider wires insulated from the tower, sloping away from it, and fed 
from the base against radials or folded counterpoise. If you can elevate 
that radials at least 20 ft, you can get away with 4-8 per wire. Add 
radials to the tower and it will act as a passive reflector, giving you 
a couple of dB in the direction of the slope.

Also look at the several arrays of sloping wires in ARRL antenna 
publications. As I recall, there's at least one in the ON4UN book.

73, Jim K9YC

From k6uj at pacbell.net  Wed Dec  9 20:34:09 2015
From: k6uj at pacbell.net (Robert Harmon)
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2015 17:34:09 -0800
Subject: Topband: Ideas for xmit antennas for new QTH in KH6
In-Reply-To: <5668CCD8.2000209@audiosystemsgroup.com>
References: <428758.396d2cf4.439a065e@aol.com>
	<5668CCD8.2000209@audiosystemsgroup.com>
Message-ID: <5668D691.1010503@pacbell.net>

You guys have inspired me.  I am going to try the same thing.  I have 
toyed with the idea of a T-top
and will try it too.    Please give feedback on how it goes, I will too.


Bob
K6UJ


On 12/9/15 4:52 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
> On Wed,12/9/2015 2:34 PM, Cqtestk4xs--- via Topband wrote:
>> On 160 I'm leaning toward a wire vertical suspended from a rope  coming
>> from the tower which would make the antenna about 65 or 70 feet tall 
>> and  to
>> compensate for that I would make it a T-top.
>
> I like that idea, Bill. Also, if you can think of a way to do it, 
> consider wires insulated from the tower, sloping away from it, and fed 
> from the base against radials or folded counterpoise. If you can 
> elevate that radials at least 20 ft, you can get away with 4-8 per 
> wire. Add radials to the tower and it will act as a passive reflector, 
> giving you a couple of dB in the direction of the slope.
>
> Also look at the several arrays of sloping wires in ARRL antenna 
> publications. As I recall, there's at least one in the ON4UN book.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>


From richard at karlquist.com  Wed Dec  9 20:34:40 2015
From: richard at karlquist.com (Richard (Rick) Karlquist)
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2015 17:34:40 -0800
Subject: Topband: Ideas for xmit antennas for new QTH in KH6
In-Reply-To: <428758.396d2cf4.439a065e@aol.com>
References: <428758.396d2cf4.439a065e@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5668D6B0.2020100@karlquist.com>



On 12/9/2015 2:34 PM, Cqtestk4xs--- via Topband wrote:

> On 160 I'm leaning toward a wire vertical suspended from a rope  coming
> from the tower which would make the antenna about 65 or 70 feet tall and  to
> compensate for that I would make it a T-top.
>

Normally, a T-top is great, but in your case it will royally screw up
the patterns of the higher frequency Yagi's.  What were you thinking??

I think this will work, but you need to model it:

Build a cage around the tower suspended from the non rotating
part of the guy rings.  The cage should be electrically insulated
from the lower guy ring.  For the top ring, there are two
possibilities:  Case 1:  if the ring is inherently
electrically conductive between rotor and stator,
use it to electrically connect the  cage to the tower
at the upper guy ring.  Case 2:  If the ring is
inherently electrically insulating, just let the top of
the cage float.

In either case the bottom of the cage is insulated from ground
and is what you drive against your radials.  Case 1 is the
classic skirt method of shunt feeding a grounded tower.
Case 2 uses the cage as the vertical and I think it will
work in spite of the tower and antennas above it, but you
need to model.

In case 2, there may be a way to get an electrical connection
across the guy ring by hanging some wires loosely from a
few feet above it on the tower, such that the wires have
enough slack to allow the tower to rotate.  Alternately,
there may be a way to let the wires hang down in a U shape.

Comments?

Rick N6RK

From co8dm at frcuba.co.cu  Wed Dec  9 20:52:18 2015
From: co8dm at frcuba.co.cu (Douglas Ruz (CO8DM))
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2015 20:52:18 -0500
Subject: Topband: Ideas for xmit antennas for new QTH in KH6
References: <428758.396d2cf4.439a065e@aol.com>
Message-ID: <7CEDB440F6E94AD795392F8A44EBB482@Casa>

Hi,

Read this article written by Rudy, N6LF:

http://rudys.typepad.com/ant/files/antenna_array_single_support.pdf

Maybe you can find your solution.

GL,

73....Douglas, CO8DM / T49A
Founder of T48K

"No creo que haya alguna emoci?n m?s intensa para un inventor que ver alguna 
de sus creaciones funcionando. Esa emoci?n hace que uno se olvide de comer, 
de dormir, de todo." - Nikola Tesla
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Cqtestk4xs--- via Topband" <topband at contesting.com>
To: <topband at contesting.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2015 5:34 PM
Subject: Topband: Ideas for xmit antennas for new QTH in KH6


> Next year I'll be building a new home and station in  Hawaii.
>
> 40 through 6 meters is already set in stone, but 80 and 160 are  still
> cloudy.
>
> Here's the setup:
>
> I'm allowed one tower maximum 90 ft.  The tower will be 90 ft  of Rohn 55
> using a K0XG rotating system with two rings.  It will be guyed  using
> fiberglass guys.  There will be a bunch of HF VHF stuff on the  tower. 
> Three
> tribanders, two 12/17 meter Yagis, a 40 meter Yagi and way  down on the 
> bottom
> two 6 meter antennas.
>
> The tower sits on VERY uneven ground.  Although the lot   measures 12
> acres, I am using only the top three and renting out the rest of the  land 
> to a
> farmer to keep taxes from being crazy high.
>
> The ground is pure alluvial red fine particle soil (no stones) and  has a
> depth of about 6 feet before hitting rock. Since the east side of  Hawaii
> gets at least 100 inches of rain a year it is usually pretty  moist.  I 
> would
> assume the soil is at least average or better in  conductivity.  I can run
> ropes, wires etc off the tower at the 80 and 40  foot guy points, but can 
> not
> connect directly to the tower since the tower  rotates.  The is no room 
> for
> a rotating dipole on the tower for  80.
>
> I've used quad triangle loops before with the pointed end on the  bottom
> suspended by wires and am leaning towards that since the ground is so 
> uneven
> and the terrain difference would be a real negative for a 4 square (I
> think).
>
> On 160 I'm leaning toward a wire vertical suspended from a rope  coming
> from the tower which would make the antenna about 65 or 70 feet tall and 
> to
> compensate for that I would make it a T-top.
>
> For rx I have lots of room to run a 700 -900 Beverage to JA and  another 
> to
> EU/USA direction, so that isn't a problem.
>
> I do need suggestions for my 80 and 160 tx situation.  Any  ideas?
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband 


From john at kk9a.com  Wed Dec  9 21:49:11 2015
From: john at kk9a.com (john at kk9a.com)
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2015 21:49:11 -0500
Subject: Topband: [Topband] Ideas for xmit antennas for new QTH in KH6
Message-ID: <6a16b665951d7b60b7feb5f16d2e2e5e.squirrel@www11.qth.com>

Your tower is probably close to resonant on 160m. When I have modeled a
wire vertical near my 150' tower, the tower acted as a reflector. You may
be able to get a little gain in a desired direction if you lay it out
correctly and model the system. Also an inverted L will give slight
directivity.

John KK9A


To:	topband at contesting.com
Subject:	Topband: Ideas for xmit antennas for new QTH in KH6
From:	Cqtestk4xs--- via Topband <topband at contesting.com>
Reply-to:	Cqtestk4xs at aol.com
Date:	Wed, 9 Dec 2015 17:34:06 -0500


Next year I'll be building a new home and station in  Hawaii.

40 through 6 meters is already set in stone, but 80 and 160 are  still
cloudy.

Here's the setup:

I'm allowed one tower maximum 90 ft.  The tower will be 90 ft  of Rohn 55
using a K0XG rotating system with two rings.  It will be guyed  using
fiberglass guys.  There will be a bunch of HF VHF stuff on the  tower.  Three
tribanders, two 12/17 meter Yagis, a 40 meter Yagi and way  down on the
bottom
two 6 meter antennas.

The tower sits on VERY uneven ground.  Although the lot   measures 12
acres, I am using only the top three and renting out the rest of the  land
to a
farmer to keep taxes from being crazy high.

The ground is pure alluvial red fine particle soil (no stones) and  has a
depth of about 6 feet before hitting rock. Since the east side of  Hawaii
gets at least 100 inches of rain a year it is usually pretty  moist.  I would
assume the soil is at least average or better in  conductivity.  I can run
ropes, wires etc off the tower at the 80 and 40  foot guy points, but can not
connect directly to the tower since the tower  rotates.  The is no room for
a rotating dipole on the tower for  80.

I've used quad triangle loops before with the pointed end on the  bottom
suspended by wires and am leaning towards that since the ground is so  uneven
and the terrain difference would be a real negative for a 4 square (I
think).

On 160 I'm leaning toward a wire vertical suspended from a rope  coming
from the tower which would make the antenna about 65 or 70 feet tall and  to
compensate for that I would make it a T-top.

For rx I have lots of room to run a 700 -900 Beverage to JA and  another to
EU/USA direction, so that isn't a problem.

I do need suggestions for my 80 and 160 tx situation.  Any  ideas?


From bjorn at sm0mdg.com  Thu Dec 10 02:53:15 2015
From: bjorn at sm0mdg.com (=?utf-8?Q?Bj=C3=B6rn_SM0MDG?=)
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2015 08:53:15 +0100
Subject: Topband: 160M EWE Problems
In-Reply-To: <CABdVoaAHXmDxGBpFiDPm1W3Hs-CXYjUis7P1Gjd3vQw5pU_CSQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABdVoaBQkPzQXhBjr-0wztzm3btiGX86m_ST0WSP4xDwfDNFyw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABdVoaAHXmDxGBpFiDPm1W3Hs-CXYjUis7P1Gjd3vQw5pU_CSQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C3CE68C6-00CC-4D52-8478-21E546956383@sm0mdg.com>

On 09 Dec 2015, at 01:49, Mark K3MSB <mark.k3msb at gmail.com> wrote:

> The EWE is aimed directly at the vertical part of the inverted-L, about 25
> to 30 feet away.   The transformer end is towards the Inv-L.    I didn?t
> think about that when I put it up.


Hi Mark,

This is what I would change if possible. The TX antenna will re-radiate noise it picks up. This is probably what is picked up by your RX antenna.

Do you have space to move the EWE away from the inv-L? Best of all is to put it in a place where it has the inv-l in its back and a minimum of noise sources in its forward facing direction.

I am using pennants located around 130 ft away from the TX antenna. I have more noise picked up from the TX antenna (and the building) on my N/W pennant which pattern somewhat includes the direction of the TX vertical.

Maybe you can make a test by reversing the antenna in its current position to see if S/N improved when facing away from the inv-L.


73 de Bj?rn,
SM0MDG
SE0X

From n4is at comcast.net  Thu Dec 10 09:19:09 2015
From: n4is at comcast.net (JC)
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2015 09:19:09 -0500
Subject: Topband: 160M EWE Problems
In-Reply-To: <C3CE68C6-00CC-4D52-8478-21E546956383@sm0mdg.com>
References: <CABdVoaBQkPzQXhBjr-0wztzm3btiGX86m_ST0WSP4xDwfDNFyw@mail.gmail.com>	<CABdVoaAHXmDxGBpFiDPm1W3Hs-CXYjUis7P1Gjd3vQw5pU_CSQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<C3CE68C6-00CC-4D52-8478-21E546956383@sm0mdg.com>
Message-ID: <000001d13355$bd272130$37756390$@comcast.net>

Hi folks

I would like to add some comments to receiving antennas issue. Any resonant thing (wire, cable, rotor cable tower, TX antenna...) will interact with the RX antenna if they are in the same polarity, different polarity has 27 dB or more of isolation due the polarization itself.

The inverted L is easy to detune, just open the wire from the coaxial and check the noise on the EWE. The noise on the RX antenna needs to decrease one or 2 S units. However, it is possible you will not see any difference. The reason is that you may have another point where common noise is deteriorating the directivity of the RX antenna. If it work, just add a relay for detuning the Inv L during RX.

The integration with the inverted " L " TX antenna is the easy one do fix the others resonant "things" could be difficult to recognize. Example, if you have a low dipole or elevated radials, these "things" will destroy any directivity of nearby RX antennas, and nearby distance on 160m means 300ft or more, one wavelength. Rotor cable, VHF or other's 120ft feed lines could be resonant and a good reflector for noise and re-radiate them too.

Lack of good ground (or no ground at all) is receipt for failure on RX. Running the cables outside the tower and far from the ground is the preferred way to screw things up.

I am following every installation of my WF's and there is an issue very frequently found. It is bad connectors contact with the cable shield. Cold solder, no solder, little copper wire on the braid. One single point with a bad shield can ruin you RX system.

Doug Waller when he build the first WF was very disappointed with the results until he found a RCA connector with one RCA   ear not contacting the preamp input RCA female. Just one little gap in ear with no contact was enough to leak noise into the preamplifier input. After fixing the bad contact, the RX antenna started to work with good directivity. PL259 or a F connector with bad contact with the braid can cause several S units of noise.

Spending big money on the radio and do not care about the quality of the connectors used for RX is no sense.

Open frame relays (not coaxial relay), open contact switches, plastic boxes are the most common points to add noise and destroy the directivity pattern.

Running cable outside de tower and ground them at the base is not a very popular solution. It is hard to run the cables inside the tower they say. As a result RF is everywhere in the shack. No solution for that too.

I am just trying to help, there is no free beef regarding good RX systems.

73's
JC
N4IS






From tshoppa at gmail.com  Thu Dec 10 09:31:47 2015
From: tshoppa at gmail.com (Tim Shoppa)
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2015 09:31:47 -0500
Subject: Topband: 160M EWE Problems
In-Reply-To: <000001d13355$bd272130$37756390$@comcast.net>
References: <CABdVoaBQkPzQXhBjr-0wztzm3btiGX86m_ST0WSP4xDwfDNFyw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABdVoaAHXmDxGBpFiDPm1W3Hs-CXYjUis7P1Gjd3vQw5pU_CSQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<C3CE68C6-00CC-4D52-8478-21E546956383@sm0mdg.com>
	<000001d13355$bd272130$37756390$@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <CAJ_qRvYO3LxFR7S1RT6Zcz-GwZbB00qjmk1KXiQUgtOFWknkpA@mail.gmail.com>

I would like to concur with SM0MDG's comments about receive coax
connections. I betcha the OP's system is leaking in at levels way higher
than the Ewe actually produces. I know everyone loves to detune their
transmit antenna, but there's no way an Ewe should sound noisier than the
inverted L.

A reversible array is far and away the best way to convince yourself that
you have a working receive antenna system. If you reverse it and nothing
ever changes, well, you're listening to some other antenna! Some (e.g. YCCC
array) are supposed to be far more sensitive to near-field metal objects
than others (e.g. K9AY loop) but even then I'm sure you'll be able to find
a convincing F/B on known BCB stations once you have stuff working right.
Another useful beacon is W1AW code practice at 1802.5.

Tim N3QE

On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 9:19 AM, JC <n4is at comcast.net> wrote:

> Hi folks
>
> I would like to add some comments to receiving antennas issue. Any
> resonant thing (wire, cable, rotor cable tower, TX antenna...) will
> interact with the RX antenna if they are in the same polarity, different
> polarity has 27 dB or more of isolation due the polarization itself.
>
> The inverted L is easy to detune, just open the wire from the coaxial and
> check the noise on the EWE. The noise on the RX antenna needs to decrease
> one or 2 S units. However, it is possible you will not see any difference.
> The reason is that you may have another point where common noise is
> deteriorating the directivity of the RX antenna. If it work, just add a
> relay for detuning the Inv L during RX.
>
> The integration with the inverted " L " TX antenna is the easy one do fix
> the others resonant "things" could be difficult to recognize. Example, if
> you have a low dipole or elevated radials, these "things" will destroy any
> directivity of nearby RX antennas, and nearby distance on 160m means 300ft
> or more, one wavelength. Rotor cable, VHF or other's 120ft feed lines could
> be resonant and a good reflector for noise and re-radiate them too.
>
> Lack of good ground (or no ground at all) is receipt for failure on RX.
> Running the cables outside the tower and far from the ground is the
> preferred way to screw things up.
>
> I am following every installation of my WF's and there is an issue very
> frequently found. It is bad connectors contact with the cable shield. Cold
> solder, no solder, little copper wire on the braid. One single point with a
> bad shield can ruin you RX system.
>
> Doug Waller when he build the first WF was very disappointed with the
> results until he found a RCA connector with one RCA   ear not contacting
> the preamp input RCA female. Just one little gap in ear with no contact was
> enough to leak noise into the preamplifier input. After fixing the bad
> contact, the RX antenna started to work with good directivity. PL259 or a F
> connector with bad contact with the braid can cause several S units of
> noise.
>
> Spending big money on the radio and do not care about the quality of the
> connectors used for RX is no sense.
>
> Open frame relays (not coaxial relay), open contact switches, plastic
> boxes are the most common points to add noise and destroy the directivity
> pattern.
>
> Running cable outside de tower and ground them at the base is not a very
> popular solution. It is hard to run the cables inside the tower they say.
> As a result RF is everywhere in the shack. No solution for that too.
>
> I am just trying to help, there is no free beef regarding good RX systems.
>
> 73's
> JC
> N4IS
>
>
>
>
>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>

From egan.dennis88 at gmail.com  Thu Dec 10 10:07:56 2015
From: egan.dennis88 at gmail.com (Dennis Egan)
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2015 12:07:56 -0300
Subject: Topband: CX/W1UE Tonight
Message-ID: <CAOskpJHitx5Uhoc9+aQ-B7XEx8VusmGVvYc7Oxjq189k=t20Yg@mail.gmail.com>

Guys

Last night was frustrating.  I know a lot of you were calling, but I was
only able to pull out 7 stations, all W5 and W7.  The noise level here was
a constant S9.  If you translate the seasons into the northern hemisphere,
it is now May 10- and, as an operator there, you know what that means to
your atmospheric noise level.

BTW, the station here is a full size vertical array, 1500w, K3, a beverage
for EU, a beverage for East Coast USA, and a beverage for West Coast
USA/JA.  The station seems to transmit quite well.  Hearing, though, is a
different problem.

I spent this morning listening to the various noises on the 160M band, and
I think I was able to reduce the local noise level some.  I won't know for
sure until tonight, but my game plan has changed.

I will be on for Europe around 0445Z; I expect transmit frequency to be
1805.5KHz or so, listening above 1810KHz.  I will either self/spot my Rx
freq or announce "Up x".  Why so low?  I have less noise there.  Much of
the local noise I have seems to peak around 1835, which makes Rx there not
so good.
If you can't transmit as low as 1811, please let me know and I'll modify by
Rx frequency.

When I am done with Europe- and it may not take long if I don't hear any
Europeans- I will listen for USA.  I may go back to Europe from time to
time but will announce it when I do so.

That should cover it!  Good luck to all that need CX!

Dennis W1UE/CX

From ct1ilt at gmail.com  Thu Dec 10 10:12:45 2015
From: ct1ilt at gmail.com (Filipe Lopes)
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2015 16:12:45 +0100
Subject: Topband: CX/W1UE Tonight
In-Reply-To: <CAOskpJHitx5Uhoc9+aQ-B7XEx8VusmGVvYc7Oxjq189k=t20Yg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOskpJHitx5Uhoc9+aQ-B7XEx8VusmGVvYc7Oxjq189k=t20Yg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFQcihTFKQtm1ZDX=nz_ORQCe7c2W-8h0ZsrK7X6m5OB25b1EA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Dennis,

In Europe you can go as low as 1.810 MHz for TX.


73's Filipe Lopes
CT1ILT - CR6K
F4VPX - TM3M

2015-12-10 16:07 GMT+01:00 Dennis Egan <egan.dennis88 at gmail.com>:

> Guys
>
> Last night was frustrating.  I know a lot of you were calling, but I was
> only able to pull out 7 stations, all W5 and W7.  The noise level here was
> a constant S9.  If you translate the seasons into the northern hemisphere,
> it is now May 10- and, as an operator there, you know what that means to
> your atmospheric noise level.
>
> BTW, the station here is a full size vertical array, 1500w, K3, a beverage
> for EU, a beverage for East Coast USA, and a beverage for West Coast
> USA/JA.  The station seems to transmit quite well.  Hearing, though, is a
> different problem.
>
> I spent this morning listening to the various noises on the 160M band, and
> I think I was able to reduce the local noise level some.  I won't know for
> sure until tonight, but my game plan has changed.
>
> I will be on for Europe around 0445Z; I expect transmit frequency to be
> 1805.5KHz or so, listening above 1810KHz.  I will either self/spot my Rx
> freq or announce "Up x".  Why so low?  I have less noise there.  Much of
> the local noise I have seems to peak around 1835, which makes Rx there not
> so good.
> If you can't transmit as low as 1811, please let me know and I'll modify by
> Rx frequency.
>
> When I am done with Europe- and it may not take long if I don't hear any
> Europeans- I will listen for USA.  I may go back to Europe from time to
> time but will announce it when I do so.
>
> That should cover it!  Good luck to all that need CX!
>
> Dennis W1UE/CX
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>

From mark.k3msb at gmail.com  Thu Dec 10 18:41:11 2015
From: mark.k3msb at gmail.com (Mark K3MSB)
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2015 18:41:11 -0500
Subject: Topband: 160M EWE Problems
In-Reply-To: <CAJ_qRvYO3LxFR7S1RT6Zcz-GwZbB00qjmk1KXiQUgtOFWknkpA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABdVoaBQkPzQXhBjr-0wztzm3btiGX86m_ST0WSP4xDwfDNFyw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABdVoaAHXmDxGBpFiDPm1W3Hs-CXYjUis7P1Gjd3vQw5pU_CSQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<C3CE68C6-00CC-4D52-8478-21E546956383@sm0mdg.com>
	<000001d13355$bd272130$37756390$@comcast.net>
	<CAJ_qRvYO3LxFR7S1RT6Zcz-GwZbB00qjmk1KXiQUgtOFWknkpA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABdVoaBptjLL6J_kwUTqxi1rhgs1Gajf4djyUqs9m7y1aWZkPA@mail.gmail.com>

Bjorn, Tim:

Thanks for your comments.

I don't have much time to play with the antennas until the weekend, but I
did manage to hook up an SWR Analyzer.  The analyzer says 1.5:1 at 1820 Kc
(35 ohms R).   So, there is an antenna out there.

A need to clarify that the noise level is the same between the INV-L and
EWE when I use the EWE preamp.   Without the preamp on, the EWE noise level
is almost nonexistent.

A did notice something.  With the coax cables on my other HF antennas, when
I unscrew the shield connector and break shield contact the noise rises
significantly but goes to nothing when the shield is screwed back on.  This
does NOT happen when I disconnect / reconnect the PL-259 shield connector
on the cable.

Re-orienting the EWE to be "in front" of the INV-L isn't possible right  (I
have only an acre).   What I may do is take down the EWE and put it up in
the front yard where it will point N/S.   I really would like the EWE for
EU DX,  but if it's not working, then a N/S attempt may be in order.

73 Mark K3MSB











On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 9:31 AM, Tim Shoppa <tshoppa at gmail.com> wrote:

> I would like to concur with SM0MDG's comments about receive coax
> connections. I betcha the OP's system is leaking in at levels way higher
> than the Ewe actually produces. I know everyone loves to detune their
> transmit antenna, but there's no way an Ewe should sound noisier than the
> inverted L.
>
> A reversible array is far and away the best way to convince yourself that
> you have a working receive antenna system. If you reverse it and nothing
> ever changes, well, you're listening to some other antenna! Some (e.g. YCCC
> array) are supposed to be far more sensitive to near-field metal objects
> than others (e.g. K9AY loop) but even then I'm sure you'll be able to find
> a convincing F/B on known BCB stations once you have stuff working right.
> Another useful beacon is W1AW code practice at 1802.5.
>
> Tim N3QE
>
> On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 9:19 AM, JC <n4is at comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> Hi folks
>>
>> I would like to add some comments to receiving antennas issue. Any
>> resonant thing (wire, cable, rotor cable tower, TX antenna...) will
>> interact with the RX antenna if they are in the same polarity, different
>> polarity has 27 dB or more of isolation due the polarization itself.
>>
>> The inverted L is easy to detune, just open the wire from the coaxial and
>> check the noise on the EWE. The noise on the RX antenna needs to decrease
>> one or 2 S units. However, it is possible you will not see any difference.
>> The reason is that you may have another point where common noise is
>> deteriorating the directivity of the RX antenna. If it work, just add a
>> relay for detuning the Inv L during RX.
>>
>> The integration with the inverted " L " TX antenna is the easy one do fix
>> the others resonant "things" could be difficult to recognize. Example, if
>> you have a low dipole or elevated radials, these "things" will destroy any
>> directivity of nearby RX antennas, and nearby distance on 160m means 300ft
>> or more, one wavelength. Rotor cable, VHF or other's 120ft feed lines could
>> be resonant and a good reflector for noise and re-radiate them too.
>>
>> Lack of good ground (or no ground at all) is receipt for failure on RX.
>> Running the cables outside the tower and far from the ground is the
>> preferred way to screw things up.
>>
>> I am following every installation of my WF's and there is an issue very
>> frequently found. It is bad connectors contact with the cable shield. Cold
>> solder, no solder, little copper wire on the braid. One single point with a
>> bad shield can ruin you RX system.
>>
>> Doug Waller when he build the first WF was very disappointed with the
>> results until he found a RCA connector with one RCA   ear not contacting
>> the preamp input RCA female. Just one little gap in ear with no contact was
>> enough to leak noise into the preamplifier input. After fixing the bad
>> contact, the RX antenna started to work with good directivity. PL259 or a F
>> connector with bad contact with the braid can cause several S units of
>> noise.
>>
>> Spending big money on the radio and do not care about the quality of the
>> connectors used for RX is no sense.
>>
>> Open frame relays (not coaxial relay), open contact switches, plastic
>> boxes are the most common points to add noise and destroy the directivity
>> pattern.
>>
>> Running cable outside de tower and ground them at the base is not a very
>> popular solution. It is hard to run the cables inside the tower they say.
>> As a result RF is everywhere in the shack. No solution for that too.
>>
>> I am just trying to help, there is no free beef regarding good RX systems.
>>
>> 73's
>> JC
>> N4IS
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _________________
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>
>
>

From jkaufmann at alum.mit.edu  Thu Dec 10 20:34:54 2015
From: jkaufmann at alum.mit.edu (John Kaufmann)
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2015 20:34:54 -0500
Subject: Topband: 160M EWE Problems
In-Reply-To: <CAJ_qRvYO3LxFR7S1RT6Zcz-GwZbB00qjmk1KXiQUgtOFWknkpA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABdVoaBQkPzQXhBjr-0wztzm3btiGX86m_ST0WSP4xDwfDNFyw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABdVoaAHXmDxGBpFiDPm1W3Hs-CXYjUis7P1Gjd3vQw5pU_CSQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<C3CE68C6-00CC-4D52-8478-21E546956383@sm0mdg.com>
	<000001d13355$bd272130$37756390$@comcast.net>
	<CAJ_qRvYO3LxFR7S1RT6Zcz-GwZbB00qjmk1KXiQUgtOFWknkpA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <008801d133b4$23ab1700$6b014500$@alum.mit.edu>

> A reversible array is far and away the best way to convince yourself
> that you have a working receive antenna system. If you reverse it and
> nothing ever changes, well, you're listening to some other antenna! 
> Some (e.g. YCCC array) are supposed to be far more sensitive to near-field

> metal objects than others (e.g. K9AY loop) but even then I'm sure you'll
be
> able to find a convincing F/B on known BCB stations once you have stuff
working right.

The YCCC array and other high-performance receiving arrays have much higher
directivity, and correspondingly higher RDF's, than a K9AY loop.  On 160m,
the YCCC array has an RDF of 12.1 dB while the K9AY loop is 7.7 dB.  This is
not a criticism of the K9AY loop because it is a very simple yet effective
solution for many people.  However, it is a fact of life that achieving
higher directivity in multi-element arrays necessarily means more careful
control of the amplitudes and phases of multiple elements.  A corollary of
that is small perturbations introduced by external influences, like metal
objects, can degrade directivity rather easily.  There is no free lunch.

73, John W1FV


From herbs at vitelcom.net  Fri Dec 11 12:53:01 2015
From: herbs at vitelcom.net (Herbert Schoenbohm)
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2015 13:53:01 -0400
Subject: Topband: Ideas for xmit antennas for new QTH in KH6
In-Reply-To: <438a74.12051a98.439a2b63@aol.com>
References: <438a74.12051a98.439a2b63@aol.com>
Message-ID: <566B0D7D.4000402@vitelcom.net>

OK....fine!  From there attach a Dacron rope to support a Lazy Inverted 
L or sloper that is started some distance away from the tower to 
minimize interaction, and feed it with 50 ohm coax against a few 
radial.  You can even drop a wire for 80 meters  from the same halyard 
and use the same feed connection. Both the 160 and 80 wires should be 
slightly longer than 1/4 wave so two different series capacitors can be 
used as may be required.  If the 160 and 80 drop wires are 20 feet or 
more apart you should be able to use the same feed line without any 
serious problem. The radial you use for 160 work just a good for 80 and 
of they are insulated wire laying on the ground need not be a quarter 
wave and can be 20 to 30% shorter than normal.


Herb Schoenbohm, KV4FZ

On 12/9/2015 9:12 PM, Cqtestk4xs at aol.com wrote:
> *Yes, at 80 ft.*
> In a message dated 12/9/2015 10:43:27 P.M. Coordinated Universal Tim, 
> herbs at vitelcom.net writes:
>
>     Is there anyway you can put a slip ring to support a T antenna
>     (Marconi)
>     for 160 and 80 at some height that won't snag the beam elements?
>
>
>     Herb, KV4FZ
>
>     On 12/9/2015 6:34 PM, Cqtestk4xs--- via Topband wrote:
>     > Next year I'll be building a new home and station in Hawaii.
>     >
>     > 40 through 6 meters is already set in stone, but 80 and 160 are 
>     still
>     > cloudy.
>     >
>     > Here's the setup:
>     >
>     > I'm allowed one tower maximum 90 ft.  The tower will be 90 ft 
>     of Rohn 55
>     > using a K0XG rotating system with two rings.  It will be guyed 
>     using
>     > fiberglass guys.  There will be a bunch of HF VHF stuff on the 
>     tower.  Three
>     > tribanders, two 12/17 meter Yagis, a 40 meter Yagi and way  down
>     on the bottom
>     > two 6 meter antennas.
>     >
>     > The tower sits on VERY uneven ground.  Although the lot  
>     measures 12
>     > acres, I am using only the top three and renting out the rest of
>     the  land to a
>     > farmer to keep taxes from being crazy high.
>     >
>     > The ground is pure alluvial red fine particle soil (no stones)
>     and  has a
>     > depth of about 6 feet before hitting rock. Since the east side
>     of  Hawaii
>     > gets at least 100 inches of rain a year it is usually pretty 
>     moist.  I would
>     > assume the soil is at least average or better in conductivity. 
>     I can run
>     > ropes, wires etc off the tower at the 80 and 40  foot guy
>     points, but can not
>     > connect directly to the tower since the tower rotates.  The is
>     no room for
>     > a rotating dipole on the tower for  80.
>     >
>     > I've used quad triangle loops before with the pointed end on
>     the  bottom
>     > suspended by wires and am leaning towards that since the ground
>     is so  uneven
>     > and the terrain difference would be a real negative for a 4
>     square (I
>     > think).
>     >
>     > On 160 I'm leaning toward a wire vertical suspended from a rope 
>     coming
>     > from the tower which would make the antenna about 65 or 70 feet
>     tall and  to
>     > compensate for that I would make it a T-top.
>     >
>     > For rx I have lots of room to run a 700 -900 Beverage to JA and 
>     another to
>     > EU/USA direction, so that isn't a problem.
>     >
>     > I do need suggestions for my 80 and 160 tx situation.  Any  ideas?
>     > _________________
>     > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
>     _________________
>     Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>


From w7ew at arrl.net  Sat Dec 12 14:37:15 2015
From: w7ew at arrl.net (Lew Sayre)
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2015 11:37:15 -0800
Subject: Topband: Fwd: 20th Stew Perry TopBand DX Challange
In-Reply-To: <CAPqMs-no3tHW44JvrBVmmUZH6Mz9qzp+_B297QmX9Yq_qoBvTQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPqMs-no3tHW44JvrBVmmUZH6Mz9qzp+_B297QmX9Yq_qoBvTQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPqMs-mP17LDNk0vAPsQs-fXJ6t7PvPw_GAycz5=QVTxMqp=TA@mail.gmail.com>

 Greetings to all TopBand Contesters,
     The Stew Perry TopBand DX Challenge is approaching. 1500Z Dec.26 to
1500Z Dec 27 are the times this year. Operate any 14 hours out of this
period,
turn in your log and you'll have participated in the 20th Edition of this
event.
     This is a unique contest in many ways. Please motor on over to:
 www.kkn.net/stew/      to read the rules, who has paid for their plaques
and
assimilate the gestalt of this 160M Extravaganza.
     The contesters who care determine what radio deeds are worthy of a
plaque.
Listed below are the sponsors for these plaques and the categories they feel
are important to recognize. You can join this stellar group by emailing me
with
your category at the address listed way below.

KL7RA                            Top # of QSOs
North Pole Contest Group  To be decided
K7FL/5H2DA                    Top Score 100% Search & Pounce
KR2Q                              Golden Log Award
N0TT                                Top Score < 21y/o, >200 QSOs
K7CA                               Top Score China
TF3KX                              Aurora Borealis Award- Top Score North
of 60 deg N
                                        geomagnetic Latitude
Dr. Beldar-L1AR                Top Score,S/O, Temp Antenna erected after
Dec.14
VK6VZ- Flying Doctors of   Top Score- N. Hemisphere station working
      VK Baseball hat           S. Hemisphere stations
UX1UA                             Top # NA + SA Qs by Zone 16 station
UX1UA                              USA station with top # Qs with Zone 16
K6ND                                K6SE Memorial- Top Score World S/O
K1EP                                Top LP score between 30deg N & 40deg N
lat
                                (any station located in xM## gridsquare)
KH6LC                               VK/ZL Challenge- Top Score S/O, VK/ZL
N6TQ/A25TQ                     California Dreaming- Top # Qs with Calif
stations
                                 by a non California station.
W2GD Team                       Top # Qs, NA/SA by European Station
W7RH                                Top Score, Low Power, Asia
K7CA                                 Top Score from Zone 24, 27 or 28
K7CA                                  Top Score from either Zone 19 or 25
FWDXA                              KL7RA Memorial- Top Score, LP, Central
Division
NA0Y                                 Top Score North America
N9TF                                  Top Score, North America, S/O, QRP

     The plaques for the 2014 Stew Perry have all been mailed out around
the world
to the category winners. Peruse the plaque list for this year, operate
accordingly
and perhaps you'll receive a 2015 plaque next year at about this time.
     So now is the time to make those improvements to your TX/RX so your
system
will be in fine fettle for The Stew Perry. It also a good time to do all
the good deeds
necessary to obtain the time to operate in the contest Dec 26/27.
     The Boring Amateur Radio Club appreciates the TopBand community's
support
for this contest. We also appreciate you letting your DX friends know of
this
contest and urge all who can operate to do so.
     73 and I remain,
    Lew    w7ew
   Boring Amateur Club Promulgator
  w7ew at arrl.net

From ra0ff at mail.ru  Sun Dec 13 04:06:22 2015
From: ra0ff at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?RXVnZW5lIFBvcG92IC9SQTBGRi8=?=)
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2015 12:06:22 +0300
Subject: Topband: =?utf-8?q?Wanted_States_80/160m?=
Message-ID: <1449997582.741647602@f330.i.mail.ru>

 Hi Topbanders,

For my 
LoTW WAS-80m???? wanted?? RI,? VT.
LOTW WAS-160m?? wanted? KY, NJ, RI, SC,VT

Please assign SKED in a private letter.

73! de Eugene RA0FF
http://www.qsl.net/ra0ff/

From art at nk8x.net  Mon Dec 14 23:26:43 2015
From: art at nk8x.net (Art Snapper)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2015 23:26:43 -0500
Subject: Topband: QRP
Message-ID: <CAH6Jzymr7Pz9CE3AgeLx8CT+V36iw8Oz8ueFcQoqyc_Db27WBg@mail.gmail.com>

Has anyone achieved DXCC on 160 meters using QRP?

Or is anyone even close?

73,
Art NK8X


?

From n6bk at yahoo.com  Tue Dec 15 01:41:25 2015
From: n6bk at yahoo.com (Bob Kupps)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2015 06:41:25 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Topband: Noise levels on 160
In-Reply-To: <6CB1CA79037E4198B524D663252149C9@t30ce0d73e1b34>
References: <6CB1CA79037E4198B524D663252149C9@t30ce0d73e1b34>
Message-ID: <1462866742.1368242.1450161685609.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

My daytime noise level from the 160m xmit vertical using your settings is -100 dBm. The S meter on the K3 reads S7 (absolute)...?
73 Bob HS0ZIA
      From: Dave Olean <k1whs at metrocast.net>
 To: topband at contesting.com 
 Sent: Tuesday, December 8, 2015 3:30 AM
 Subject: Re: Topband: Noise levels on 160
   
I am somewhat new to 160 meters. I converted an old VHF tower at my house to 
a 160 M 1/4 wave radiator in late 2013 and have been active since then on a 
casual basis. Recently I started showing symptoms of the 160 Disease, and 
have been looking for ways to improve things. The XYL has nixed anything big 
(no more towers) so I am stuck with a single radiator, but I can still work 
on the receiving side. I just built up an Africa beverage (100 degree az) 
and was happy with the noise level on that antenna. It seems extremely low 
and about as good as my Europe beverage. Recently, I tried measuring each 
beverage and the vertical antenna to nail down the noise floor using my K3 
and P3 panadaptor. I wonder if these numbers are good and how they compare 
with other setups.? For the record, I set the P3 at the narrowest span, 2 
kHz. I used the preamp ON for the beverages and the preamp off for the 
vertical. I recorded these levels on late Saturday evening during the ARRL 
160 contest, and then again, the following Monday during the day.? I 
recorded the following numbers...

ANTENNA? ? ? ? ? NOISE LVL? ? DAYTIME
JA? 330 deg? ? ? ? ? ? -133? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? -138
West 270 deg? ? ? ? -125? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? -130
SW? 220 deg? ? ? ? ? -125? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? -132
Africa 100 deg? ? ? ? -136? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? -144
Europe? 45 deg? ? ? ? -138? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? -142
Vertical Antenna? ? ? -115? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? -123

All measurements were taken with the P3 panadaptor set at 2 kHz span. That 
is important. K3 preamp is ON.? These numbers taken at night are a moving 
target. The noise can vary from hour to hour. I looked across the 2 kHz span 
of the P3 and averaged what I saw. I seem to hear reasonably well with the 
vertical, and in the past used it quite often. Now that I have a few 
beverages, I hardly ever listen on the vertical anymore. Both the 220 and 
270 degree beverages suffer from power line noise and are 10 dB noisier than 
the wires aimed East.? I am thinking about maybe nulling out the power line 
noise. I am sure that noise is killing my receive.
? ? I guess I should make a real measurement of my noise floor at a 
specified bandwidth of the receiver. That would require more work! I took 
the easy way and set the P3 at minimum span and looked at the "grass level". 
What numbers do others see on 160?
? ? I live in a rural area in Maine near the NH border.? I have a neighbor 
across the street and another two about 1000 to 1200 ft away. I think my 
location is pretty quiet, but I do often see interference that comes and 
goes. I always hear two electric fences. One is a single snap every second 
or so. The other is a pulsing burst of noise that lasts maybe 300 ms that 
repeats every second or so. There is also a rather broad drifting signal to 
my NE that is about 20 kHz wide and drifts around 1820 kHz. It is about 5 dB 
above the normal noise. I suspect it is a mile away, but have not found it 
yet.

Dave K1WHS

_________________
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


 

From w8ji at w8ji.com  Tue Dec 15 03:12:40 2015
From: w8ji at w8ji.com (Tom W8JI)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2015 03:12:40 -0500
Subject: Topband: QRP
References: <CAH6Jzymr7Pz9CE3AgeLx8CT+V36iw8Oz8ueFcQoqyc_Db27WBg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F76015EC464A4CB5AB8A2CC26D1980DF@MAIN>

> Has anyone achieved DXCC on 160 meters using QRP?
>
> Or is anyone even close?
>
> 73,
> Art NK8X

Power ratings were DC plate input power up to the early 1980's.  A Heath 
SB220 was a legal input amp rated for 1 kW dc input CW, and 2 kW PEP input 
on SSB. That was 1 kW dc input all modes, or about 600 watts output on 
meters.

160 used to be 200 watts, 100 watts, or even 25 watts DC plate input at 
night because of LORAN depending on location and what 25 kHz section of the 
band you were in. That was roughly 120, 60, or 15  watts RF output depending 
on location and band segment.

Many DX countries were only allowed 10 watts plate input power, or about 6 
watts RF output, on 160.

That means there were many stations who had early DXCC, by today's 
standards, ran QRP. Full legal power used to be QRP. 


From gudguyham at aol.com  Tue Dec 15 07:10:48 2015
From: gudguyham at aol.com (Louis Parascondola)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2015 07:10:48 -0500
Subject: Topband: Noise levels on 160
In-Reply-To: <1462866742.1368242.1450161685609.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <151a58cd43c-1e7a-10d15@webprd-a21.mail.aol.com>

I also am new to the top band.  Been a ham since 1967 and I suppose I have made about 5 contacts on 160 since then.  But now that I have decided to make 160m my new challenge I am hooked.  I did know enough by speaking with a friend that unless I had a beverage for receive I had better just forge about even getting started.  So, he helped me install a beverage.   We strung out about 550 feet of wire.  I did not terminate the far end.  The other end goes to the balun and is grounded with a ground rod.  I have the feed line laying on the ground all the way to the shack window where it rises about 7 feet to go indoors.  I made the mistake of thinking the braid does not pick up noise and raised the feed line to enter the house through the roof area.  So the feedline was raised from the feed point over to the house roof.  BIG MISTAKE!  The noise jumped up so high that it was only 2 s units better than the 55 foot OCF dipole for 160m  I had to immediately return it to the way it was on the ground,  In the evening on 160m  The OCF at about 55 feet has a noise level of about S8 to S9 and when I switch to the beverage the noise is only S1.  It is truly amazing how quiet it is compared.  I can tell when I am running DX who is listening on a beverage on their end and who isn't.  Often I can work all over Europe and get all Q5 reports and answers with just one call.  When I try working someone  the same country and they do not come back to my call or anyone else's for that matter I know they aren't using a beverage.  I know for certain that at least 75% of the contacts I have already made I could have never made without the beverage.  The signals you never know are there come right out of the noise when the beverage is selected as the rx antenna.  I also use the same beverage on 80 and 40 meters with similar results!!  I would have packed up my idea on playing with 160m if I did not have a beverage.  You would never get anywhere without it in my opinion.  Sure you can make contacts but you will be missing a heck of a lot.  I have done zero scientific tests like WHS, but my ear does not lie to me.  I have heard you K1WHS on 160, good signal into CT.  73 all Lou W1QJ



-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Kupps via Topband <topband at contesting.com>
To: Dave Olean <k1whs at metrocast.net>; topband <topband at contesting.com>
Sent: Tue, Dec 15, 2015 1:41 am
Subject: Re: Topband: Noise levels on 160

My daytime noise level from the 160m xmit vertical using your settings is -100 dBm. The S meter on the K3 reads S7 (absolute)... 73 Bob HS0ZIA      From: Dave Olean <k1whs at metrocast.net> To: topband at contesting.com  Sent: Tuesday, December 8, 2015 3:30 AM Subject: Re: Topband: Noise levels on 160   I am somewhat new to 160 meters. I converted an old VHF tower at my house to a 160 M 1/4 wave radiator in late 2013 and have been active since then on a casual basis. Recently I started showing symptoms of the 160 Disease, and have been looking for ways to improve things. The XYL has nixed anything big (no more towers) so I am stuck with a single radiator, but I can still work on the receiving side. I just built up an Africa beverage (100 degree az) and was happy with the noise level on that antenna. It seems extremely low and about as good as my Europe beverage. Recently, I tried measuring each beverage and the vertical antenna to nail down the noise floor using my K3 and P3 panadaptor. I wonder if these numbers are good and how they compare with other setups.  For the record, I set the P3 at the narrowest span, 2 kHz. I used the preamp ON for the beverages and the preamp off for the vertical. I recorded these levels on late Saturday evening during the ARRL 160 contest, and then again, the following Monday during the day.  I recorded the following numbers...ANTENNA          NOISE LVL    DAYTIMEJA  330 deg            -133                -138West 270 deg        -125                -130SW  220 deg          -125                -132Africa 100 deg        -136                -144Europe  45 deg        -138                -142Vertical Antenna      -115                -123All measurements were taken with the P3 panadaptor set at 2 kHz span. That is important. K3 preamp is ON.  These numbers taken at night are a moving target. The noise can vary from hour to hour. I looked across the 2 kHz span of the P3 and averaged what I saw. I seem to hear reasonably well with the vertical, and in the past used it quite often. Now that I have a few beverages, I hardly ever listen on the vertical anymore. Both the 220 and 270 degree beverages suffer from power line noise and are 10 dB noisier than the wires aimed East.  I am thinking about maybe nulling out the power line noise. I am sure that noise is killing my receive.    I guess I should make a real measurement of my noise floor at a specified bandwidth of the receiver. That would require more work! I took the easy way and set the P3 at minimum span and looked at the "grass level". What numbers do others see on 160?    I live in a rural area in Maine near the NH border.  I have a neighbor across the street and another two about 1000 to 1200 ft away. I think my location is pretty quiet, but I do often see interference that comes and goes. I always hear two electric fences. One is a single snap every second or so. The other is a pulsing burst of noise that lasts maybe 300 ms that repeats every second or so. There is also a rather broad drifting signal to my NE that is about 20 kHz wide and drifts around 1820 kHz. It is about 5 dB above the normal noise. I suspect it is a mile away, but have not found it yet.Dave K1WHS_________________Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _________________Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

From gudguyham at aol.com  Tue Dec 15 07:16:25 2015
From: gudguyham at aol.com (Louis Parascondola)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2015 07:16:25 -0500
Subject: Topband: QRP
In-Reply-To: <F76015EC464A4CB5AB8A2CC26D1980DF@MAIN>
References: <CAH6Jzymr7Pz9CE3AgeLx8CT+V36iw8Oz8ueFcQoqyc_Db27WBg@mail.gmail.com>
	<F76015EC464A4CB5AB8A2CC26D1980DF@MAIN>
Message-ID: <151a591f83f-1e7a-10d2b@webprd-a21.mail.aol.com>

Nice to see you here Tom. I used much information form your site preparing for my 160m set up here.  In the spring I am going to take your advice and bury my beverage feed line under the ground.  I have not heard you on though.  I listened for you in the contest a few weeks ago but no joy on hearing you.  One of my first contacts on 160 now was VY2ZM, my friend Jeff.  I have been maintaining his amps since Bill passed on.  Lou W1QJ



-----Original Message-----
From: Tom W8JI <w8ji at w8ji.com>
To: Art Snapper <art at nk8x.net>
Cc: Topband <Topband at contesting.com>
Sent: Tue, Dec 15, 2015 3:13 am
Subject: Re: Topband: QRP

> Has anyone achieved DXCC on 160 meters using QRP?
>
> Or is anyone even close?
>
> 73,
> Art NK8X

Power ratings were DC plate input power up to the early 1980's.  A Heath 
SB220 was a legal input amp rated for 1 kW dc input CW, and 2 kW PEP input 
on SSB. That was 1 kW dc input all modes, or about 600 watts output on 
meters.

160 used to be 200 watts, 100 watts, or even 25 watts DC plate input at 
night because of LORAN depending on location and what 25 kHz section of the 
band you were in. That was roughly 120, 60, or 15  watts RF output depending 
on location and band segment.

Many DX countries were only allowed 10 watts plate input power, or about 6 
watts RF output, on 160.

That means there were many stations who had early DXCC, by today's 
standards, ran QRP. Full legal power used to be QRP. 

_________________
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


From on7eh at skynet.be  Tue Dec 15 07:55:13 2015
From: on7eh at skynet.be (Michel Spelier)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2015 13:55:13 +0100 (CET)
Subject: Topband: QRP
In-Reply-To: <F76015EC464A4CB5AB8A2CC26D1980DF@MAIN>
References: <CAH6Jzymr7Pz9CE3AgeLx8CT+V36iw8Oz8ueFcQoqyc_Db27WBg@mail.gmail.com>
	<F76015EC464A4CB5AB8A2CC26D1980DF@MAIN>
Message-ID: <474944289.4672.1450184113842.open-xchange@webmail.nmp.proximus.be>

Hello,

Living in a country, where 10W has been the upper limit set by the regulator in
the early 160m days,
I have been puzzled with this question for a long time...
Given the progress on antenna and Rx-capabilities (over the years) and say
typical transceiver output power (100W),
how come it has become so rare to witness (experience) low power to low power
QSO's (over the USA to EU path)
during major topband contests (winter time on both continents) ?

What has happened to the topband conditions the last couple of decades?
IMO it is hard to believe this is due only to environmental noise increases?!

73,

Michel, ON7EH



> Op 15 december 2015 om 9:12 schreef Tom W8JI <w8ji at w8ji.com>:
>
>
> > Has anyone achieved DXCC on 160 meters using QRP?
> >
> > Or is anyone even close?
> >
> > 73,
> > Art NK8X
>
> Power ratings were DC plate input power up to the early 1980's. A Heath
> SB220 was a legal input amp rated for 1 kW dc input CW, and 2 kW PEP input
> on SSB. That was 1 kW dc input all modes, or about 600 watts output on
> meters.
>
> 160 used to be 200 watts, 100 watts, or even 25 watts DC plate input at
> night because of LORAN depending on location and what 25 kHz section of the
> band you were in. That was roughly 120, 60, or 15 watts RF output depending
> on location and band segment.
>
> Many DX countries were only allowed 10 watts plate input power, or about 6
> watts RF output, on 160.
>
> That means there were many stations who had early DXCC, by today's
> standards, ran QRP. Full legal power used to be QRP.
>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

From mort.g2jl at ntlworld.com  Tue Dec 15 08:28:31 2015
From: mort.g2jl at ntlworld.com (Mort)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2015 13:28:31 -0000
Subject: Topband: QRP
References: <CAH6Jzymr7Pz9CE3AgeLx8CT+V36iw8Oz8ueFcQoqyc_Db27WBg@mail.gmail.com><F76015EC464A4CB5AB8A2CC26D1980DF@MAIN>
	<474944289.4672.1450184113842.open-xchange@webmail.nmp.proximus.be>
Message-ID: <9DDA203538EF4E27889D29A022C1DA0C@experimental>

Well,  IMO the problem with QRP QSO is definitely the increase in man-made noise.  We had a 10 Watt DC input to "the valve or valve energising the aerial" or as we must now say,  since American has displaced English, to "the tube or tubes energising the antenna".

Even so,  enthusiasts in good locations with space for an effective TX antenna achieved DXCC even observing that restriction. Beverages (except for tranquillising the operator) were seldom needed or used.  Nowadays,  anyone using QRP in a spacious location is either a Masochist,  or doomed to disappointment.

It is yet another aspect of inflation.  In my time,  a pint (568 ml) of beer in a pub has risen by a factor of 26...



73  -  Mort,  G2JL

From n6bk at yahoo.com  Tue Dec 15 08:38:42 2015
From: n6bk at yahoo.com (Bob Kupps)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2015 13:38:42 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Topband: HS0ZIA tonights noise levels
References: <1020836865.1488573.1450186722510.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1020836865.1488573.1450186722510.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

On a K3/P3 pan display 2 kHz wide 8:30pm LT
BAND ? ? ? ? ? ANT ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?NF
160 ? ? ? ? ?XMIT VERT ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? -9580 ? ? ? ? ? ?3 el yagi @ 60m ? ? ? ? ?-11040 ? ? ? ? ? ?3 el yagi stack ? ? ? ? ? ? -11020 ? ? ? ? ? ?5 el yagi stack ? ? ? ? ? ? -12515 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?" ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?-13510 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?" ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?-135
Peter HS0ZKX and I will be active in the W1BB test using about 9 dB of amplitude processing into our 30m top loaded vertical and our new HiZ 8 circle RX ant - hope to work you...73 Bob

From w8ji at w8ji.com  Tue Dec 15 09:14:50 2015
From: w8ji at w8ji.com (Tom W8JI)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2015 09:14:50 -0500
Subject: Topband: QRP
References: <CAH6Jzymr7Pz9CE3AgeLx8CT+V36iw8Oz8ueFcQoqyc_Db27WBg@mail.gmail.com><F76015EC464A4CB5AB8A2CC26D1980DF@MAIN>
	<474944289.4672.1450184113842.open-xchange@webmail.nmp.proximus.be>
Message-ID: <A7C607BD38F2414991C8902B4FACF0A7@MAIN>

> I have been puzzled with this question for a long time...
> Given the progress on antenna and Rx-capabilities (over the years) and say
> typical transceiver output power (100W),
> how come it has become so rare to witness (experience) low power to low 
> power
> QSO's (over the USA to EU path)
> during major topband contests (winter time on both continents) ?
>
> What has happened to the topband conditions the last couple of decades?
> IMO it is hard to believe this is due only to environmental noise 
> increases?!
>

The largest problem is QRM. Mostly from intentional transmitters and also 
from hundreds of unintended transmitters that cause noise.

In the USA during contests, stations are stacked every few hundred Hz. 


From k2owr at comcast.net  Tue Dec 15 09:34:21 2015
From: k2owr at comcast.net (K4OWR)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2015 09:34:21 -0500
Subject: Topband: QRP
In-Reply-To: <A7C607BD38F2414991C8902B4FACF0A7@MAIN>
References: <CAH6Jzymr7Pz9CE3AgeLx8CT+V36iw8Oz8ueFcQoqyc_Db27WBg@mail.gmail.com>
	<F76015EC464A4CB5AB8A2CC26D1980DF@MAIN>
	<474944289.4672.1450184113842.open-xchange@webmail.nmp.proximus.be>
	<A7C607BD38F2414991C8902B4FACF0A7@MAIN>
Message-ID: <567024ED.3090503@comcast.net>

:::: I have a question....that will likely cause me grief; What exactly 
is the point of operating such a difficult band, full of all sorts of 
noise, relatively awful propagation, requiring gigantic antennas, then 
using the low power? Is it because using high power makes it so easy, 
because it really doesn't.


On 12/15/2015 9:14 AM, Tom W8JI wrote:
>> I have been puzzled with this question for a long time...
>> Given the progress on antenna and Rx-capabilities (over the years) 
>> and say
>> typical transceiver output power (100W),
>> how come it has become so rare to witness (experience) low power to 
>> low power
>> QSO's (over the USA to EU path)
>> during major topband contests (winter time on both continents) ?
>>
>> What has happened to the topband conditions the last couple of decades?
>> IMO it is hard to believe this is due only to environmental noise 
>> increases?!
>>
>
> The largest problem is QRM. Mostly from intentional transmitters and 
> also from hundreds of unintended transmitters that cause noise.
>
> In the USA during contests, stations are stacked every few hundred Hz.
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>


From john at johnjeanantiqueradio.com  Tue Dec 15 09:44:00 2015
From: john at johnjeanantiqueradio.com (John K9UWA)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2015 09:44:00 -0500
Subject: Topband: QRP
In-Reply-To: <567024ED.3090503@comcast.net>
References: <CAH6Jzymr7Pz9CE3AgeLx8CT+V36iw8Oz8ueFcQoqyc_Db27WBg@mail.gmail.com>,
	<A7C607BD38F2414991C8902B4FACF0A7@MAIN>,
	<567024ED.3090503@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <56702730.6466.1512163C@john.johnjeanantiqueradio.com>


> What exactly is the point of operating such a difficult band, full of all sorts of 
> noise, relatively awful propagation, requiring gigantic antennas, then 
> using the low power? Is it because using high power makes it so easy, 
> because it really doesn't.

It is the CHALLENGE that makes us chase DX on 160M. Whether you do it 
with 100W and a short vertical from a noisey city  lot or have a super station 
with a few hunded acres of land and unlimited antennas running full power it 
is still a Challenge to operate on 160M band.

To borrow a Quote from Garry NI6T
 "160 not a band but an obsession"

Garry is correct. No other HF Ham Band is like it. The Last Frontier !!

John k9uwa
John Goller, K9UWA & Jean Goller, N9PXF 
Antique Radio Restorations
k9uwa at arrl.net
Visit our Web Site at:
http://www.JohnJeanAntiqueRadio.com
4836 Ranch Road
Leo, IN 46765
USA
1-260-637-6426


From tree at kkn.net  Tue Dec 15 10:31:02 2015
From: tree at kkn.net (Tree)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2015 07:31:02 -0800
Subject: Topband: Noise levels on 160
In-Reply-To: <1462866742.1368242.1450161685609.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <6CB1CA79037E4198B524D663252149C9@t30ce0d73e1b34>
	<1462866742.1368242.1450161685609.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAKF9Hhavb+06Cb7QBFETpAf+fBK+PkAHcMMXgeG0bWQ9yYb8EQ@mail.gmail.com>

K1WHS writes:

"There is also a rather broad drifting signal to
my NE that is about 20 kHz wide and drifts around 1820 kHz. It is about 5 dB
above the normal noise. I suspect it is a mile away, but have not found it
yet."

I just saw a very similar noise on the panadapter the other night.  It was
just
about exactly 20 kHz wide - and had pretty sharp edges to it.  It was also
about
5 db above the normal noise - and I could see it on 3 different antennas.
It
seemed to be drifting as well.   You could barely hear the difference in
noise
with the ear as you tuned into it - but it was very obvious on the K3
display.

I had never seen it before - and maybe it is somehow connected to the wet
weather
we have recently been having.

Tree N6TR

On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 10:41 PM, Bob Kupps via Topband <
topband at contesting.com> wrote:

> My daytime noise level from the 160m xmit vertical using your settings is
> -100 dBm. The S meter on the K3 reads S7 (absolute)...
> 73 Bob HS0ZIA
>       From: Dave Olean <k1whs at metrocast.net>
>  To: topband at contesting.com
>  Sent: Tuesday, December 8, 2015 3:30 AM
>  Subject: Re: Topband: Noise levels on 160
>
> I am somewhat new to 160 meters. I converted an old VHF tower at my house
> to
> a 160 M 1/4 wave radiator in late 2013 and have been active since then on a
> casual basis. Recently I started showing symptoms of the 160 Disease, and
> have been looking for ways to improve things. The XYL has nixed anything
> big
> (no more towers) so I am stuck with a single radiator, but I can still work
> on the receiving side. I just built up an Africa beverage (100 degree az)
> and was happy with the noise level on that antenna. It seems extremely low
> and about as good as my Europe beverage. Recently, I tried measuring each
> beverage and the vertical antenna to nail down the noise floor using my K3
> and P3 panadaptor. I wonder if these numbers are good and how they compare
> with other setups.  For the record, I set the P3 at the narrowest span, 2
> kHz. I used the preamp ON for the beverages and the preamp off for the
> vertical. I recorded these levels on late Saturday evening during the ARRL
> 160 contest, and then again, the following Monday during the day.  I
> recorded the following numbers...
>
> ANTENNA          NOISE LVL    DAYTIME
> JA  330 deg            -133                -138
> West 270 deg        -125                -130
> SW  220 deg          -125                -132
> Africa 100 deg        -136                -144
> Europe  45 deg        -138                -142
> Vertical Antenna      -115                -123
>
> All measurements were taken with the P3 panadaptor set at 2 kHz span. That
> is important. K3 preamp is ON.  These numbers taken at night are a moving
> target. The noise can vary from hour to hour. I looked across the 2 kHz
> span
> of the P3 and averaged what I saw. I seem to hear reasonably well with the
> vertical, and in the past used it quite often. Now that I have a few
> beverages, I hardly ever listen on the vertical anymore. Both the 220 and
> 270 degree beverages suffer from power line noise and are 10 dB noisier
> than
> the wires aimed East.  I am thinking about maybe nulling out the power line
> noise. I am sure that noise is killing my receive.
>     I guess I should make a real measurement of my noise floor at a
> specified bandwidth of the receiver. That would require more work! I took
> the easy way and set the P3 at minimum span and looked at the "grass
> level".
> What numbers do others see on 160?
>     I live in a rural area in Maine near the NH border.  I have a neighbor
> across the street and another two about 1000 to 1200 ft away. I think my
> location is pretty quiet, but I do often see interference that comes and
> goes. I always hear two electric fences. One is a single snap every second
> or so. The other is a pulsing burst of noise that lasts maybe 300 ms that
> repeats every second or so. There is also a rather broad drifting signal to
> my NE that is about 20 kHz wide and drifts around 1820 kHz. It is about 5
> dB
> above the normal noise. I suspect it is a mile away, but have not found it
> yet.
>
> Dave K1WHS
>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
>
>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

From ranchorobbo at gmail.com  Tue Dec 15 11:09:14 2015
From: ranchorobbo at gmail.com (Rob Atkinson)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2015 10:09:14 -0600
Subject: Topband: QRP
Message-ID: <CALWD7Z4Ng0fgd2djRyHGgyJgbzMjy0vBtr-9kBMTjeYKuVBJzA@mail.gmail.com>

>What has happened to the topband conditions the last couple of decades?

Two words:

Noise and antennas.

Noise--yes, millions of cheap junk appliances have destroyed
reception.  Ever lived next door to a plasma TV?

Antennas--Old hams unable to climb or plow in radials and HOAs =
crappy antennas.

73

Rob
K5UJ

From tshoppa at gmail.com  Tue Dec 15 11:24:44 2015
From: tshoppa at gmail.com (Tim Shoppa)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2015 11:24:44 -0500
Subject: Topband: Noise levels on 160
In-Reply-To: <151a58cd43c-1e7a-10d15@webprd-a21.mail.aol.com>
References: <1462866742.1368242.1450161685609.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
	<151a58cd43c-1e7a-10d15@webprd-a21.mail.aol.com>
Message-ID: <CAJ_qRvYgcKdF02dMqgn328FpduckowyoWDrkA-UFM1Kco2UAsQ@mail.gmail.com>

Louis -
  If you try to call someone in the same country and they do not hear you,
I would not assume they have a receive antenna problem. They could have an
8-circle and simply be listening in the wrong direction for you. The
directivity of an 8-circle is astonishing. When I did the Stew Perry from
W3LPL last December, I used Frank's beverages as my "omnidirectional"
antennas into one ear (or sometimes both ears) because being off just 2
notches in 8-circle direction, dropped even strong signals into the noise.

  Amazing. Well-known beverages seemed ominidirectional compared to an
8-circle.

Tim N3QE

On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 7:10 AM, Louis Parascondola via Topband <
topband at contesting.com> wrote:

> I also am new to the top band.  Been a ham since 1967 and I suppose I have
> made about 5 contacts on 160 since then.  But now that I have decided to
> make 160m my new challenge I am hooked.  I did know enough by speaking with
> a friend that unless I had a beverage for receive I had better just forge
> about even getting started.  So, he helped me install a beverage.   We
> strung out about 550 feet of wire.  I did not terminate the far end.  The
> other end goes to the balun and is grounded with a ground rod.  I have the
> feed line laying on the ground all the way to the shack window where it
> rises about 7 feet to go indoors.  I made the mistake of thinking the braid
> does not pick up noise and raised the feed line to enter the house through
> the roof area.  So the feedline was raised from the feed point over to the
> house roof.  BIG MISTAKE!  The noise jumped up so high that it was only 2 s
> units better than the 55 foot OCF dipole for 160m  I had to immediately
> return it to the way it wa
>  s on the ground,  In the evening on 160m  The OCF at about 55 feet has a
> noise level of about S8 to S9 and when I switch to the beverage the noise
> is only S1.  It is truly amazing how quiet it is compared.  I can tell when
> I am running DX who is listening on a beverage on their end and who isn't.
> Often I can work all over Europe and get all Q5 reports and answers with
> just one call.  When I try working someone  the same country and they do
> not come back to my call or anyone else's for that matter I know they
> aren't using a beverage.  I know for certain that at least 75% of the
> contacts I have already made I could have never made without the beverage.
> The signals you never know are there come right out of the noise when the
> beverage is selected as the rx antenna.  I also use the same beverage on 80
> and 40 meters with similar results!!  I would have packed up my idea on
> playing with 160m if I did not have a beverage.  You would never get
> anywhere without it in my opinion.  S
>  ure you can make contacts but you will be missing a heck of a lot.  I
> have done zero scientific tests like WHS, but my ear does not lie to me.  I
> have heard you K1WHS on 160, good signal into CT.  73 all Lou W1QJ
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bob Kupps via Topband <topband at contesting.com>
> To: Dave Olean <k1whs at metrocast.net>; topband <topband at contesting.com>
> Sent: Tue, Dec 15, 2015 1:41 am
> Subject: Re: Topband: Noise levels on 160
>
> My daytime noise level from the 160m xmit vertical using your settings is
> -100 dBm. The S meter on the K3 reads S7 (absolute)... 73 Bob HS0ZIA
> From: Dave Olean <k1whs at metrocast.net> To: topband at contesting.com  Sent:
> Tuesday, December 8, 2015 3:30 AM Subject: Re: Topband: Noise levels on
> 160   I am somewhat new to 160 meters. I converted an old VHF tower at my
> house to a 160 M 1/4 wave radiator in late 2013 and have been active since
> then on a casual basis. Recently I started showing symptoms of the 160
> Disease, and have been looking for ways to improve things. The XYL has
> nixed anything big (no more towers) so I am stuck with a single radiator,
> but I can still work on the receiving side. I just built up an Africa
> beverage (100 degree az) and was happy with the noise level on that
> antenna. It seems extremely low and about as good as my Europe beverage.
> Recently, I tried measuring each beverage and the vertical antenna to nail
> down the noise floor using my K3 and P3 panada
>  ptor. I wonder if these numbers are good and how they compare with other
> setups.  For the record, I set the P3 at the narrowest span, 2 kHz. I used
> the preamp ON for the beverages and the preamp off for the vertical. I
> recorded these levels on late Saturday evening during the ARRL 160 contest,
> and then again, the following Monday during the day.  I recorded the
> following numbers...ANTENNA          NOISE LVL    DAYTIMEJA  330 deg
>     -133                -138West 270 deg        -125                -130SW
> 220 deg          -125                -132Africa 100 deg        -136
>         -144Europe  45 deg        -138                -142Vertical Antenna
>     -115                -123All measurements were taken with the P3
> panadaptor set at 2 kHz span. That is important. K3 preamp is ON.  These
> numbers taken at night are a moving target. The noise can vary from hour to
> hour. I looked across the 2 kHz span of the P3 and averaged what I saw. I
> seem to hear reasonably well wi
>  th the vertical, and in the past used it quite often. Now that I have a
> few beverages, I hardly ever listen on the vertical anymore. Both the 220
> and 270 degree beverages suffer from power line noise and are 10 dB noisier
> than the wires aimed East.  I am thinking about maybe nulling out the power
> line noise. I am sure that noise is killing my receive.    I guess I should
> make a real measurement of my noise floor at a specified bandwidth of the
> receiver. That would require more work! I took the easy way and set the P3
> at minimum span and looked at the "grass level". What numbers do others see
> on 160?    I live in a rural area in Maine near the NH border.  I have a
> neighbor across the street and another two about 1000 to 1200 ft away. I
> think my location is pretty quiet, but I do often see interference that
> comes and goes. I always hear two electric fences. One is a single snap
> every second or so. The other is a pulsing burst of noise that lasts maybe
> 300 ms that repeats every
>   second or so. There is also a rather broad drifting signal to my NE that
> is about 20 kHz wide and drifts around 1820 kHz. It is about 5 dB above the
> normal noise. I suspect it is a mile away, but have not found it yet.Dave
> K1WHS_________________Topband Reflector Archives -
> http://www.contesting.com/_topband _________________Topband Reflector
> Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>

From jim at audiosystemsgroup.com  Tue Dec 15 12:15:08 2015
From: jim at audiosystemsgroup.com (Jim Brown)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2015 09:15:08 -0800
Subject: Topband: Noise levels on 160
In-Reply-To: <CAKF9Hhavb+06Cb7QBFETpAf+fBK+PkAHcMMXgeG0bWQ9yYb8EQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6CB1CA79037E4198B524D663252149C9@t30ce0d73e1b34>
	<1462866742.1368242.1450161685609.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
	<CAKF9Hhavb+06Cb7QBFETpAf+fBK+PkAHcMMXgeG0bWQ9yYb8EQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56704A9C.2030802@audiosystemsgroup.com>

On Tue,12/15/2015 7:31 AM, Tree wrote:
> It seemed to be drifting as well.

In general, things that drift are usually generated by some sort of 
electronic clock or switching power supply. OTOH -- might it be some new 
insidious form of microprocessor-based fish beacon?

73, Jim K9YC


From w6jhb at me.com  Tue Dec 15 12:49:07 2015
From: w6jhb at me.com (James Bennett)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2015 09:49:07 -0800
Subject: Topband: QRP
In-Reply-To: <CALWD7Z4Ng0fgd2djRyHGgyJgbzMjy0vBtr-9kBMTjeYKuVBJzA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALWD7Z4Ng0fgd2djRyHGgyJgbzMjy0vBtr-9kBMTjeYKuVBJzA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6FCD79DF-9BF3-45F2-8BF7-76D060C21D27@me.com>

Hmmm?. Junk, yes. Cheap, no. Five years ago we purchased a $2,900 Samsung P.O.C. plasma TV, at the time not knowing what plasma sets (some) do to the HF bands. Not only does it clobber HF,  but the picture quality has degraded seriously in the areas of white scenes. Not cheap. But certainly junk. We have an old Sony plasma and a new Panasonic plasma, neither of which cause any interference on HF. These days, when you buy any major appliance, get in writing that the store will take it back if you are not 100% satisfied. 

Jim / W6JHB


> On   Tuesday, Dec 15, 2015, at  Tuesday, 8:09 AM, Rob Atkinson <ranchorobbo at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> What has happened to the topband conditions the last couple of decades?
> 
> Two words:
> 
> Noise and antennas.
> 
> Noise--yes, millions of cheap junk appliances have destroyed
> reception.  Ever lived next door to a plasma TV?
> 
> Antennas--Old hams unable to climb or plow in radials and HOAs =
> crappy antennas.
> 
> 73
> 
> Rob
> K5UJ
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


From pfizenmayer at q.com  Tue Dec 15 13:31:31 2015
From: pfizenmayer at q.com (HankP)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2015 13:31:31 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Topband: Noise levels on 160
In-Reply-To: <CAKF9Hhavb+06Cb7QBFETpAf+fBK+PkAHcMMXgeG0bWQ9yYb8EQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2058179846.155318.1450204291514.JavaMail.root@md04.quartz.synacor.com>


Since the subject of "un-intentional radiators " has come up , I had one
appear about a week ago .  5 very clean very stable -80dBm  carriers
4 khz apart starting at 1815.957, 1819.957, 1823.957, 1827.957 ,1831.954 .

Then Sunday evening  at 0446 I moved my amp back to 160 and when I sent
 my call , looked at the P3 panadapter and there was a comb
from at least 1710 to 1910 every 4 khz. I cannot swear it changed from
5 carriers to a comb when  I popped 1500 watts out - but it is now on
24 hours a day.  

It nulls NE/SW so is possibly from a new neighbor who seems to be running 
a business about 250 feet away from my loop to SW - and I suspect some
sort of router.

Today I will wind up a ferrite rod loopstick for my R10 rx and go sleuthing
I cannot detect it anywhere except the 1710 to 1910 range - nil on 80 and above.
There may be some weaker stuff below 1710 but hard to tell . 

Any gurus out there have an idea ? 

Thanks

 Hank K7HP  







From wd8dsb at gmail.com  Tue Dec 15 14:36:35 2015
From: wd8dsb at gmail.com (Don Kirk)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2015 14:36:35 -0500
Subject: Topband: Noise levels on 160
In-Reply-To: <2058179846.155318.1450204291514.JavaMail.root@md04.quartz.synacor.com>
References: <CAKF9Hhavb+06Cb7QBFETpAf+fBK+PkAHcMMXgeG0bWQ9yYb8EQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<2058179846.155318.1450204291514.JavaMail.root@md04.quartz.synacor.com>
Message-ID: <CAKtW65c0rQvCzDFud60qNa-O8dpsmupMQQrJTpeZ02ezAQMvRA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Hank,

The case I'm currently working on sounds very similar to yours but at 8 Khz
separation and it's due to an AC servo drive on an injection molding
machine 0.5 miles away (a visiting ham in my shack said the signal just
sounded like someone tuning up his rig as it's a pretty clean and narrow
signal).  4 khz and 8 khz are very common carrier frequencies in the world
of variable speed drives (case earlier this year that I worked on used a 4
khz carrier).  In my current case I notice slightly lower signal levels on
the even harmonics, and the signals appear from below 160 meters all the
way through 160 meters and slightly beyond.

Generally I try not to guess at the source as that sometimes puts blinders
on when tracking down the culprit.  The only time I really try and figure
out what the source might be is when it's broadband white noise, and then I
try and determine if the interference is power line arcing related versus
some other kind of source (pretty easy to do).  If it looks like power line
arcing then I use a AM VHF radio with directional antenna for direction
finding as I approach the source versus an HF rig with directional antenna.

73,
Don (wd8dsb)

On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 1:31 PM, HankP <pfizenmayer at q.com> wrote:

>
> Since the subject of "un-intentional radiators " has come up , I had one
> appear about a week ago .  5 very clean very stable -80dBm  carriers
> 4 khz apart starting at 1815.957, 1819.957, 1823.957, 1827.957 ,1831.954 .
>
> Then Sunday evening  at 0446 I moved my amp back to 160 and when I sent
>  my call , looked at the P3 panadapter and there was a comb
> from at least 1710 to 1910 every 4 khz. I cannot swear it changed from
> 5 carriers to a comb when  I popped 1500 watts out - but it is now on
> 24 hours a day.
>
> It nulls NE/SW so is possibly from a new neighbor who seems to be running
> a business about 250 feet away from my loop to SW - and I suspect some
> sort of router.
>
> Today I will wind up a ferrite rod loopstick for my R10 rx and go sleuthing
> I cannot detect it anywhere except the 1710 to 1910 range - nil on 80 and
> above.
> There may be some weaker stuff below 1710 but hard to tell .
>
> Any gurus out there have an idea ?
>
> Thanks
>
>  Hank K7HP
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>

From richard at karlquist.com  Tue Dec 15 15:47:10 2015
From: richard at karlquist.com (Richard (Rick) Karlquist)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2015 12:47:10 -0800
Subject: Topband: QRP
In-Reply-To: <CAH6Jzymr7Pz9CE3AgeLx8CT+V36iw8Oz8ueFcQoqyc_Db27WBg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAH6Jzymr7Pz9CE3AgeLx8CT+V36iw8Oz8ueFcQoqyc_Db27WBg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56707C4E.5050705@karlquist.com>

On 12/14/2015 8:26 PM, Art Snapper wrote:
> Has anyone achieved DXCC on 160 meters using QRP?
>

The thing about QRP is that the guy on the other
end of the QSO from the station receiving the
award does the heavy lifting.  A more impressive
achievement would be to work QRP stations in
100 countries.  (A sort of "reverse QRP").
Even more impressive would be 2 way QRP.
There is also the un level playing field depending
on where you are in the world because of the
non-uniform distribution of "entities", so
the significance of DXCC (regardless of power
level) varies a lot.

Rick N6RK

From jim at audiosystemsgroup.com  Tue Dec 15 16:02:26 2015
From: jim at audiosystemsgroup.com (Jim Brown)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2015 13:02:26 -0800
Subject: Topband: QRP
In-Reply-To: <56707C4E.5050705@karlquist.com>
References: <CAH6Jzymr7Pz9CE3AgeLx8CT+V36iw8Oz8ueFcQoqyc_Db27WBg@mail.gmail.com>
	<56707C4E.5050705@karlquist.com>
Message-ID: <56707FE2.7090102@audiosystemsgroup.com>

On Tue,12/15/2015 12:47 PM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist wrote:
>
> The thing about QRP is that the guy on the other
> end of the QSO from the station receiving the
> award does the heavy lifting. 

Most of it, yes. But not all. The QRP station needs very good TX 
antenna(s), lots of operating skill, and lots of attention to propagation.

73, Jim K9YC

From Rodenkirch_LLC at msn.com  Tue Dec 15 17:19:18 2015
From: Rodenkirch_LLC at msn.com (James Rodenkirch)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2015 22:19:18 +0000
Subject: Topband: QRP
In-Reply-To: <56707FE2.7090102@audiosystemsgroup.com>
References: <CAH6Jzymr7Pz9CE3AgeLx8CT+V36iw8Oz8ueFcQoqyc_Db27WBg@mail.gmail.com>
	<56707C4E.5050705@karlquist.com>,
	<56707FE2.7090102@audiosystemsgroup.com>
Message-ID: <SN1PR16MB0623626C7B8C19B2052E30D4F0EE0@SN1PR16MB0623.namprd16.prod.outlook.com>

I don't know that I'd use Jim's, "Most of it, yes" phraseology, Rick....go to the results pages for any 160 meter contest.....look up the top ten scores of the QRP entrants, then.....go to the Low power and High power line scores  and start noodling through the listings - you may be surprised to see well us QRPers do, in terms of score, vs. those supposed "heavy lifting LP and HP entries"!!!! I've participated in many 160 events where I had to struggle to hear the other station and, after completing the QSO and making some sort of annotation next to the call sign, look to see which category they entered and discover they are an LP entry, most often.  Jim's point - needing a very good TX antenna(s), lots of operating skill, and lots of attention to propagation - applies equally to any other entry category......there's no "lock" on doing well when you, regardless of the entry category don't pay attention to the TX antenna, propagation and honed operating skill.
 
Besides all of that ---------------- thumb your nose at a potential QRP entry/participant in any of the Stew Perry events - i.e., don't even bother to answer a call from a weak station at or just above the noise - and  you'll find your final score can take a serious hit 'cuz we QRP participants are worth 4 points as compared to 2 for all of 'dem "heavy lifters."

71.5/72 de Jim RodenkirchK9JWV

________________________________________
From: Topband <topband-bounces at contesting.com> on behalf of Jim Brown <jim at audiosystemsgroup.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2015 2:02 PM
To: topband at contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: QRP

On Tue,12/15/2015 12:47 PM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist wrote:
>
> The thing about QRP is that the guy on the other
> end of the QSO from the station receiving the
> award does the heavy lifting.

Most of it, yes. But not all. The QRP station needs very good TX
antenna(s), lots of operating skill, and lots of attention to propagation.

73, Jim K9YC
_________________
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

From w8ji at w8ji.com  Tue Dec 15 17:22:16 2015
From: w8ji at w8ji.com (Tom W8JI)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2015 17:22:16 -0500
Subject: Topband: QRP
References: <CAH6Jzymr7Pz9CE3AgeLx8CT+V36iw8Oz8ueFcQoqyc_Db27WBg@mail.gmail.com>
	<56707C4E.5050705@karlquist.com>
Message-ID: <BC9ACBB04B554C929B08FACA568E55E1@MAIN>

> The thing about QRP is that the guy on the other
> end of the QSO from the station receiving the
> award does the heavy lifting.  A more impressive
> achievement would be to work QRP stations in
> 100 countries.  (A sort of "reverse QRP").

I agree with that. Virtually zero QRP stations I've worked were using 
exceptional antennas. As a matter of fact they very rarely have fairly good 
antennas, like 1/4 wave verticals or inverted L's with large ground systems 
out in the clear.

I remember in the middle of a contest having two or three operators on 
headphones trying to dig out a guy running something like 200 microwatts to 
a 20 foot high dipole. It took ten minutes, and should have been worth twice 
as much as a Mongolian station. He was actually much weaker than JT1CO.   :) 


From jim at audiosystemsgroup.com  Tue Dec 15 18:02:08 2015
From: jim at audiosystemsgroup.com (Jim Brown)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2015 15:02:08 -0800
Subject: Topband: QRP
In-Reply-To: <BC9ACBB04B554C929B08FACA568E55E1@MAIN>
References: <CAH6Jzymr7Pz9CE3AgeLx8CT+V36iw8Oz8ueFcQoqyc_Db27WBg@mail.gmail.com>
	<56707C4E.5050705@karlquist.com>
	<BC9ACBB04B554C929B08FACA568E55E1@MAIN>
Message-ID: <56709BF0.2010103@audiosystemsgroup.com>

On Tue,12/15/2015 2:22 PM, Tom W8JI wrote:
> Virtually zero QRP stations I've worked were using exceptional 
> antennas. As a matter of fact they very rarely have fairly good 
> antennas, like 1/4 wave verticals or inverted L's with large ground 
> systems out in the clear. 

Perhaps I'm an exception. I can switch between three 160M verticals, two 
of which are a quarter wave  with 4 radials elevated 20 ft, and one 
that's a 100 ft Tee with 60 on-ground radials. All three have a passive 
reflector that provides about 2 dB of gain.

I am equally frustrated with guys running 20W JT65 into a wet string 
with a mediocre decoder because "it's a QRP mode."

73, Jim K9YC



From k6uj at pacbell.net  Tue Dec 15 18:33:02 2015
From: k6uj at pacbell.net (Robert Harmon)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2015 15:33:02 -0800
Subject: Topband: QRP
In-Reply-To: <56709BF0.2010103@audiosystemsgroup.com>
References: <CAH6Jzymr7Pz9CE3AgeLx8CT+V36iw8Oz8ueFcQoqyc_Db27WBg@mail.gmail.com>
	<56707C4E.5050705@karlquist.com>
	<BC9ACBB04B554C929B08FACA568E55E1@MAIN>
	<56709BF0.2010103@audiosystemsgroup.com>
Message-ID: <5670A32E.5010703@pacbell.net>

Jim,

Do the 160 verticals with 4 radials elevated at 20 feet, individually 
outperform the other vertical with 60 radials on the ground ?

Bob
K6UJ

On 12/15/15 3:02 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
> On Tue,12/15/2015 2:22 PM, Tom W8JI wrote:
>> Virtually zero QRP stations I've worked were using exceptional 
>> antennas. As a matter of fact they very rarely have fairly good 
>> antennas, like 1/4 wave verticals or inverted L's with large ground 
>> systems out in the clear. 
>
> Perhaps I'm an exception. I can switch between three 160M verticals, 
> two of which are a quarter wave  with 4 radials elevated 20 ft, and 
> one that's a 100 ft Tee with 60 on-ground radials. All three have a 
> passive reflector that provides about 2 dB of gain.
>
> I am equally frustrated with guys running 20W JT65 into a wet string 
> with a mediocre decoder because "it's a QRP mode."
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>


From jim at audiosystemsgroup.com  Tue Dec 15 18:41:18 2015
From: jim at audiosystemsgroup.com (Jim Brown)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2015 15:41:18 -0800
Subject: Topband: QRP
In-Reply-To: <5670A32E.5010703@pacbell.net>
References: <CAH6Jzymr7Pz9CE3AgeLx8CT+V36iw8Oz8ueFcQoqyc_Db27WBg@mail.gmail.com>
	<56707C4E.5050705@karlquist.com>
	<BC9ACBB04B554C929B08FACA568E55E1@MAIN>
	<56709BF0.2010103@audiosystemsgroup.com> <5670A32E.5010703@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <5670A51E.40002@audiosystemsgroup.com>

On Tue,12/15/2015 3:33 PM, Robert Harmon wrote:
> Do the 160 verticals with 4 radials elevated at 20 feet, individually 
> outperform the other vertical with 60 radials on the ground ? 

I have no meaningful way to measure that, but work by N6LF and N6BT 
suggest that radials elevated by 20 ft can approach 30-60 radials on the 
ground. The key word is "approach," with the obvious question, how 
closely? I'd guess within a dB or so. N6LF suggests that 8 elevated 
radials tend to be more efficient than only 4, because the greater 
number tend to achieve better balance between radial currents, which in 
turn maximizes efficiency.

73, Jim K9YC

From Rodenkirch_LLC at msn.com  Tue Dec 15 18:49:48 2015
From: Rodenkirch_LLC at msn.com (James Rodenkirch)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2015 23:49:48 +0000
Subject: Topband: ARRL book on  short antennas for 160 meters
Message-ID: <SN1PR16MB06234ABDE2B5BC2E3F4F6FB3F0EE0@SN1PR16MB0623.namprd16.prod.outlook.com>



Anyone read "Short Antennas for 160 Meter Radio" and can/care to comment on its "usefulness"?

'

72 de Jim Rodenkirch K9JWV

From k6uj at pacbell.net  Tue Dec 15 18:50:21 2015
From: k6uj at pacbell.net (Robert Harmon)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2015 15:50:21 -0800
Subject: Topband: QRP
In-Reply-To: <5670A51E.40002@audiosystemsgroup.com>
References: <CAH6Jzymr7Pz9CE3AgeLx8CT+V36iw8Oz8ueFcQoqyc_Db27WBg@mail.gmail.com>
	<56707C4E.5050705@karlquist.com>
	<BC9ACBB04B554C929B08FACA568E55E1@MAIN>
	<56709BF0.2010103@audiosystemsgroup.com> <5670A32E.5010703@pacbell.net>
	<5670A51E.40002@audiosystemsgroup.com>
Message-ID: <5670A73D.6070705@pacbell.net>

Jim,

OK,  I am working on a similar arrangement with 4 elevated radials at 14 
feet. Hence the question.

thanks,
Bob
K6UJ

On 12/15/15 3:41 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
> On Tue,12/15/2015 3:33 PM, Robert Harmon wrote:
>> Do the 160 verticals with 4 radials elevated at 20 feet, individually 
>> outperform the other vertical with 60 radials on the ground ? 
>
> I have no meaningful way to measure that, but work by N6LF and N6BT 
> suggest that radials elevated by 20 ft can approach 30-60 radials on 
> the ground. The key word is "approach," with the obvious question, how 
> closely? I'd guess within a dB or so. N6LF suggests that 8 elevated 
> radials tend to be more efficient than only 4, because the greater 
> number tend to achieve better balance between radial currents, which 
> in turn maximizes efficiency.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>


From mikewate at gmail.com  Tue Dec 15 18:50:12 2015
From: mikewate at gmail.com (Mike Waters)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2015 17:50:12 -0600
Subject: Topband: QRP
In-Reply-To: <5670A32E.5010703@pacbell.net>
References: <CAH6Jzymr7Pz9CE3AgeLx8CT+V36iw8Oz8ueFcQoqyc_Db27WBg@mail.gmail.com>
	<56707C4E.5050705@karlquist.com>
	<BC9ACBB04B554C929B08FACA568E55E1@MAIN>
	<56709BF0.2010103@audiosystemsgroup.com> <5670A32E.5010703@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <CA+FxYXjctSpXjKj_EXsrj7ghdQE067m-6Aj8+Gx6foPXSAw3Og@mail.gmail.com>

According to this they are close.

lists.contesting.com/_topband/2007-11/msg00248.html

www.antennasbyn6lf.com/design_of_radial_ground_systems - scroll down to the
section "QEX article on elevated radial ground systems" and study the
material in the links.

I was amazed at how well just two elevated radials work here, though I plan
on four someday.
www.w0btu.com/160_meters.html#inv-l_antenna

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com

On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 5:33 PM, Robert Harmon <k6uj at pacbell.net> wrote:

> Do the 160 verticals with 4 radials elevated at 20 feet, individually
> outperform the other vertical with 60 radials on the ground ?
>

From k6uj at pacbell.net  Tue Dec 15 18:59:11 2015
From: k6uj at pacbell.net (Robert Harmon)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2015 15:59:11 -0800
Subject: Topband: QRP
In-Reply-To: <CA+FxYXjctSpXjKj_EXsrj7ghdQE067m-6Aj8+Gx6foPXSAw3Og@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAH6Jzymr7Pz9CE3AgeLx8CT+V36iw8Oz8ueFcQoqyc_Db27WBg@mail.gmail.com>
	<56707C4E.5050705@karlquist.com>
	<BC9ACBB04B554C929B08FACA568E55E1@MAIN>
	<56709BF0.2010103@audiosystemsgroup.com> <5670A32E.5010703@pacbell.net>
	<CA+FxYXjctSpXjKj_EXsrj7ghdQE067m-6Aj8+Gx6foPXSAw3Og@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5670A94F.4090901@pacbell.net>

Mike,

Thats good stuff !   I am putting up a 160 with 4 elevated radials at 14 
feet (would like to get them higher
but they are the least visible at 14 feet to my wife :-)
I am anxious to see how it works.

thanks for the reference info!
Bob
K6UJ




On 12/15/15 3:50 PM, Mike Waters wrote:
> According to this they are close.
>
> lists.contesting.com/_topband/2007-11/msg00248.html 
> <http://lists.contesting.com/_topband/2007-11/msg00248.html>
>
> www.antennasbyn6lf.com/design_of_radial_ground_systems 
> <http://www.antennasbyn6lf.com/design_of_radial_ground_systems> - 
> scroll down to the section "QEX article on elevated radial ground 
> systems" and study the material in the links.
>
> I was amazed at how well just two elevated radials work here, though I 
> plan on four someday.
> www.w0btu.com/160_meters.html#inv-l_antenna 
> <http://www.w0btu.com/160_meters.html#inv-l_antenna>
>
> 73, Mike
> www.w0btu.com <http://www.w0btu.com>
>
> On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 5:33 PM, Robert Harmon <k6uj at pacbell.net 
> <mailto:k6uj at pacbell.net>> wrote:
>
>     Do the 160 verticals with 4 radials elevated at 20 feet,
>     individually outperform the other vertical with 60 radials on the
>     ground ?
>
>


From jim at audiosystemsgroup.com  Tue Dec 15 19:05:35 2015
From: jim at audiosystemsgroup.com (Jim Brown)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2015 16:05:35 -0800
Subject: Topband: QRP
In-Reply-To: <5670A94F.4090901@pacbell.net>
References: <CAH6Jzymr7Pz9CE3AgeLx8CT+V36iw8Oz8ueFcQoqyc_Db27WBg@mail.gmail.com>
	<56707C4E.5050705@karlquist.com>
	<BC9ACBB04B554C929B08FACA568E55E1@MAIN>
	<56709BF0.2010103@audiosystemsgroup.com> <5670A32E.5010703@pacbell.net>
	<CA+FxYXjctSpXjKj_EXsrj7ghdQE067m-6Aj8+Gx6foPXSAw3Og@mail.gmail.com>
	<5670A94F.4090901@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <5670AACF.1000105@audiosystemsgroup.com>

On Tue,12/15/2015 3:59 PM, Robert Harmon wrote:
> I am putting up a 160 with 4 elevated radials at 14 feet (would like 
> to get them higher but they are the least visible at 14 feet to my wife 

I started with radials elevated only about 4 ft. N6BT's advice to me was 
to get them up to at least 18 ft. Higher is better. I'd do what I could 
to make them less visible to your XYL -- smaller diameter, uninsulated, 
etc. And/or use more radials.

73, Jim K9YC

From wd8dsb at gmail.com  Tue Dec 15 19:31:24 2015
From: wd8dsb at gmail.com (Don Kirk)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2015 19:31:24 -0500
Subject: Topband: ARRL book on short antennas for 160 meters
In-Reply-To: <SN1PR16MB06234ABDE2B5BC2E3F4F6FB3F0EE0@SN1PR16MB0623.namprd16.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SN1PR16MB06234ABDE2B5BC2E3F4F6FB3F0EE0@SN1PR16MB0623.namprd16.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAKtW65dgYqCWikfyQQVhbOCUTpm2xAsLOUAXt139bAOA3RU-wg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Jim,

Check out the following review by Guy (K2AV) that was on the topband
reflector back in September of 2012.
http://lists.contesting.com/archives//html/Topband/2012-09/msg00177.html

73,
Don (wd8dsb)

On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 6:49 PM, James Rodenkirch <Rodenkirch_LLC at msn.com>
wrote:

>
>
> Anyone read "Short Antennas for 160 Meter Radio" and can/care to comment
> on its "usefulness"?
>
> '
>
> 72 de Jim Rodenkirch K9JWV
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>

From n7rt at cox.net  Tue Dec 15 20:11:02 2015
From: n7rt at cox.net (Hardy Landskov)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2015 18:11:02 -0700
Subject: Topband: QRP
In-Reply-To: <tzzQ1r00E32TbLd01zzSbW>
References: <CAH6Jzymr7Pz9CE3AgeLx8CT+V36iw8Oz8ueFcQoqyc_Db27WBg@mail.gmail.com>	<56707C4E.5050705@karlquist.com>	<BC9ACBB04B554C929B08FACA568E55E1@MAIN>	<56709BF0.2010103@audiosystemsgroup.com>
	<5670A32E.5010703@pacbell.net>	<CA+FxYXjctSpXjKj_EXsrj7ghdQE067m-6Aj8+Gx6foPXSAw3Og@mail.gmail.com>
	<tzzQ1r00E32TbLd01zzSbW>
Message-ID: <007501d1379e$a2060900$e6121b00$@net>

Bob,
I ran the same thing for years here in AZ with great results. 4 elevated
radials at 12 feet, Each was 132 feet long. Worked 237 countries.
Hardy N7RT

-----Original Message-----
From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Robert
Harmon
Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2015 4:59 PM
To: Mike Waters
Cc: topband
Subject: Re: Topband: QRP

Mike,

Thats good stuff !   I am putting up a 160 with 4 elevated radials at 14 
feet (would like to get them higher
but they are the least visible at 14 feet to my wife :-) I am anxious to see
how it works.

thanks for the reference info!
Bob
K6UJ




On 12/15/15 3:50 PM, Mike Waters wrote:
> According to this they are close.
>
> lists.contesting.com/_topband/2007-11/msg00248.html
> <http://lists.contesting.com/_topband/2007-11/msg00248.html>
>
> www.antennasbyn6lf.com/design_of_radial_ground_systems
> <http://www.antennasbyn6lf.com/design_of_radial_ground_systems> - 
> scroll down to the section "QEX article on elevated radial ground 
> systems" and study the material in the links.
>
> I was amazed at how well just two elevated radials work here, though I 
> plan on four someday.
> www.w0btu.com/160_meters.html#inv-l_antenna
> <http://www.w0btu.com/160_meters.html#inv-l_antenna>
>
> 73, Mike
> www.w0btu.com <http://www.w0btu.com>
>
> On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 5:33 PM, Robert Harmon <k6uj at pacbell.net 
> <mailto:k6uj at pacbell.net>> wrote:
>
>     Do the 160 verticals with 4 radials elevated at 20 feet,
>     individually outperform the other vertical with 60 radials on the
>     ground ?
>
>

_________________
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


From vk6vz at arach.net.au  Tue Dec 15 21:18:42 2015
From: vk6vz at arach.net.au (Steve Ireland)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2015 10:18:42 +0800
Subject: Topband: QRP
In-Reply-To: <mailman.25.1450198807.4604.topband@contesting.com>
References: <mailman.25.1450198807.4604.topband@contesting.com>
Message-ID: <A1442892188541B7908F0C10D774AF25@StevesHPpcPC>

G'day

>What has happened to the topband conditions the last couple of decades?

As a topbander from 1969 (first as an SWL and then licenced as G3ZZD in 
February 1971, running 9W DC input to a 5763) I'd even go as far as to say 
one word and agree with Tom W8JI:

Noise.

Topband always been about managing to get your signal above the noise at the 
other end of a path and the enemy (with the exception of those who suffered 
from Loran broadcasts) has always been 'noise'.

Back in the 1960/1970s in England my enemy was 405-line buzz from the 
time-base of nearby televisions, but the magnitude of noise was so much 
lower then.  In my surburban location, I suffered from a 'horrendous' S3 
noise level on 160m, whereas my friend G4ACW who lived on a small farm was 
only noise limited by that generated inside his WW2 TCS 12 receiver.

In regard to antennas, I think we've actually got better at building earth 
systems.  Sure, as Rob says, we might have got older and tireder when it 
comes to digging radials but we know a heck more about building an efficient 
earth system than we used to.  I still have nightmares about my first earth 
system - five three-foot earth stakes, each two inches apart, and two 50' 
radials - when I think about how much better a simple W1BB quarter wave 
counterpoise run under the antenna, or a modern K2AV counterpoise would have 
been.

Still, the low inverted-L (20' vertical section) and 'earth' did get me a 
599 report from Czechoslovakia - his noise level must have been really low!

We've come a heck of a long way in fighting noise - and we needed to in 
order to continue to have fun on 160m when dealing with huge man-made noise, 
including that from our own transmitters.

Vy 73

Steve, VK6VZ




---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus


From larry.k4ab at gmail.com  Tue Dec 15 21:43:56 2015
From: larry.k4ab at gmail.com (Larry K4AB)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2015 20:43:56 -0600
Subject: Topband: Weatherproofing F-type connectors
Message-ID: <CAMPv1h6VjQp2=KOx9mZ6c9pE2xm_exws=UGXGayYwKQ2HoK5WA@mail.gmail.com>

I'm in the process of installing a receive 4 square for 160
using F type connectors and high quality flooded RG-6.

Do these things need additional weatherproofing?

As I recall all the many cable TV installations I have had
over the decades, done by major cable and satellite companies,
none have been weatherproofed.

If its good enough for those guys, at those frequencies,
shouldn't it be good for us at 1.8 MHz?


73,
Larry K4AB

From k6uj at pacbell.net  Tue Dec 15 22:30:15 2015
From: k6uj at pacbell.net (Robert Harmon)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2015 19:30:15 -0800
Subject: Topband: QRP
In-Reply-To: <007501d1379e$a2060900$e6121b00$@net>
References: <CAH6Jzymr7Pz9CE3AgeLx8CT+V36iw8Oz8ueFcQoqyc_Db27WBg@mail.gmail.com>
	<56707C4E.5050705@karlquist.com>
	<BC9ACBB04B554C929B08FACA568E55E1@MAIN>
	<56709BF0.2010103@audiosystemsgroup.com> <5670A32E.5010703@pacbell.net>
	<CA+FxYXjctSpXjKj_EXsrj7ghdQE067m-6Aj8+Gx6foPXSAw3Og@mail.gmail.com>
	<tzzQ1r00E32TbLd01zzSbW> <007501d1379e$a2060900$e6121b00$@net>
Message-ID: <5670DAC7.6020900@pacbell.net>

Hardy,

Wow, that is great results !   I am anxious to get mine up.  It has been 
raining a lot here in northern CA and I am
doing the antenna work sporadically on dryer days.
Thanks for sharing your results Hardy.

Bob
K6UJ




On 12/15/15 5:11 PM, Hardy Landskov wrote:
> Bob,
> I ran the same thing for years here in AZ with great results. 4 elevated
> radials at 12 feet, Each was 132 feet long. Worked 237 countries.
> Hardy N7RT
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Robert
> Harmon
> Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2015 4:59 PM
> To: Mike Waters
> Cc: topband
> Subject: Re: Topband: QRP
>
> Mike,
>
> Thats good stuff !   I am putting up a 160 with 4 elevated radials at 14
> feet (would like to get them higher
> but they are the least visible at 14 feet to my wife :-) I am anxious to see
> how it works.
>
> thanks for the reference info!
> Bob
> K6UJ
>
>
>
>
> On 12/15/15 3:50 PM, Mike Waters wrote:
>> According to this they are close.
>>
>> lists.contesting.com/_topband/2007-11/msg00248.html
>> <http://lists.contesting.com/_topband/2007-11/msg00248.html>
>>
>> www.antennasbyn6lf.com/design_of_radial_ground_systems
>> <http://www.antennasbyn6lf.com/design_of_radial_ground_systems> -
>> scroll down to the section "QEX article on elevated radial ground
>> systems" and study the material in the links.
>>
>> I was amazed at how well just two elevated radials work here, though I
>> plan on four someday.
>> www.w0btu.com/160_meters.html#inv-l_antenna
>> <http://www.w0btu.com/160_meters.html#inv-l_antenna>
>>
>> 73, Mike
>> www.w0btu.com <http://www.w0btu.com>
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 5:33 PM, Robert Harmon <k6uj at pacbell.net
>> <mailto:k6uj at pacbell.net>> wrote:
>>
>>      Do the 160 verticals with 4 radials elevated at 20 feet,
>>      individually outperform the other vertical with 60 radials on the
>>      ground ?
>>
>>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
>


From w3ea at hotmail.com  Tue Dec 15 22:33:44 2015
From: w3ea at hotmail.com (Wayne Kline)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2015 22:33:44 -0500
Subject: Topband: Weatherproofing F-type connectors
In-Reply-To: <CAMPv1h6VjQp2=KOx9mZ6c9pE2xm_exws=UGXGayYwKQ2HoK5WA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMPv1h6VjQp2=KOx9mZ6c9pE2xm_exws=UGXGayYwKQ2HoK5WA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BAY177-W347D5C3A8D2B25A7FB7D638FEF0@phx.gbl>

 Hi Larry
 Asked my local cable guy the same question.  Being a  belt and suspenders type I though  I should...
 
He replied  " Wayne I have 1000's of these   Blue ended  AMP connectors in my area .. other then being ripped out and @  Frequencies FAR above what you playing  at "
 
SO my beverage's and receiving 4 sq are  just Goof amp F connectors ...  YMMV
 
Wayne  W3EA 
 
> Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2015 20:43:56 -0600
> From: larry.k4ab at gmail.com
> To: topband at contesting.com
> Subject: Topband: Weatherproofing F-type connectors
> 
> I'm in the process of installing a receive 4 square for 160
> using F type connectors and high quality flooded RG-6.
> 
> Do these things need additional weatherproofing?
> 
> As I recall all the many cable TV installations I have had
> over the decades, done by major cable and satellite companies,
> none have been weatherproofed.
> 
> If its good enough for those guys, at those frequencies,
> shouldn't it be good for us at 1.8 MHz?
> 
> 
> 73,
> Larry K4AB
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
 		 	   		  

From tshoppa at gmail.com  Tue Dec 15 22:46:42 2015
From: tshoppa at gmail.com (Tim Shoppa)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2015 22:46:42 -0500
Subject: Topband: Weatherproofing F-type connectors
In-Reply-To: <CAMPv1h6VjQp2=KOx9mZ6c9pE2xm_exws=UGXGayYwKQ2HoK5WA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMPv1h6VjQp2=KOx9mZ6c9pE2xm_exws=UGXGayYwKQ2HoK5WA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJ_qRvYzzvZn8iZYfm4VXD0Ly0FHh=7EN7PTf12mvk47e4oo1Q@mail.gmail.com>

My one concern, is the F-connector chassis-mount jacks. The jacks
themselves seem rather impervious to moisture when a good F-plug with
O-ring is kept plugged in. But the nuts for the jacks seem to rust really
fast, really surprisingly fast, I end up replacing the jack and nut every
year or two wherever they are exposed to weather.

Tim N3QE

On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 9:43 PM, Larry K4AB <larry.k4ab at gmail.com> wrote:

> I'm in the process of installing a receive 4 square for 160
> using F type connectors and high quality flooded RG-6.
>
> Do these things need additional weatherproofing?
>
> As I recall all the many cable TV installations I have had
> over the decades, done by major cable and satellite companies,
> none have been weatherproofed.
>
> If its good enough for those guys, at those frequencies,
> shouldn't it be good for us at 1.8 MHz?
>
>
> 73,
> Larry K4AB
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>

From w8ji at w8ji.com  Wed Dec 16 02:36:33 2015
From: w8ji at w8ji.com (Tom W8JI)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2015 02:36:33 -0500
Subject: Topband: Weatherproofing F-type connectors
References: <CAMPv1h6VjQp2=KOx9mZ6c9pE2xm_exws=UGXGayYwKQ2HoK5WA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJ_qRvYzzvZn8iZYfm4VXD0Ly0FHh=7EN7PTf12mvk47e4oo1Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <349B52C524834F3D89109FB56F8699F9@MAIN>

> My one concern, is the F-connector chassis-mount jacks. The jacks
> themselves seem rather impervious to moisture when a good F-plug with
> O-ring is kept plugged in. But the nuts for the jacks seem to rust really
> fast, really surprisingly fast, I end up replacing the jack and nut every
> year or two wherever they are exposed to weather.

Use stainless steel nuts. Throw the steel nuts that come with the connectors 
away. 


From tshoppa at gmail.com  Wed Dec 16 03:48:08 2015
From: tshoppa at gmail.com (Tim Shoppa)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2015 03:48:08 -0500
Subject: Topband: Weatherproofing F-type connectors
In-Reply-To: <349B52C524834F3D89109FB56F8699F9@MAIN>
References: <CAMPv1h6VjQp2=KOx9mZ6c9pE2xm_exws=UGXGayYwKQ2HoK5WA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJ_qRvYzzvZn8iZYfm4VXD0Ly0FHh=7EN7PTf12mvk47e4oo1Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<349B52C524834F3D89109FB56F8699F9@MAIN>
Message-ID: <CAJ_qRvZ9Z2=p15_xDA66+3OTY+NZ+1-bRQOR_+WT-WLqMqiyeg@mail.gmail.com>

Wow, stainless 3/8-32 panel nut from Grainger, part number 1JLU9, $15 for
2. Maybe I can find something cheaper :-)

Tim N3QE

On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 2:36 AM, Tom W8JI <w8ji at w8ji.com> wrote:

> My one concern, is the F-connector chassis-mount jacks. The jacks
>> themselves seem rather impervious to moisture when a good F-plug with
>> O-ring is kept plugged in. But the nuts for the jacks seem to rust really
>> fast, really surprisingly fast, I end up replacing the jack and nut every
>> year or two wherever they are exposed to weather.
>>
>
> Use stainless steel nuts. Throw the steel nuts that come with the
> connectors away.
>

From Rodenkirch_LLC at msn.com  Wed Dec 16 06:41:26 2015
From: Rodenkirch_LLC at msn.com (James Rodenkirch)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2015 11:41:26 +0000
Subject: Topband: ARRL book on  short antennas for 160 meters
In-Reply-To: <SN1PR16MB0623A371D565CCBA1939E510F0EF0@SN1PR16MB0623.namprd16.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SN1PR16MB06234ABDE2B5BC2E3F4F6FB3F0EE0@SN1PR16MB0623.namprd16.prod.outlook.com>,
	<SN1PR16MB0623A371D565CCBA1939E510F0EF0@SN1PR16MB0623.namprd16.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <SN1PR16MB0623BAC9AB8E757B2886D07EF0EF0@SN1PR16MB0623.namprd16.prod.outlook.com>



OKKKKKKKKKKK...read enuff replies - I ain't buying that book!! Tnx for alllllll the replies


________________________________
From: James Rodenkirch
Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2015 4:49 PM
To: Top Band Contesting
Subject: ARRL book on short antennas for 160 meters




Anyone read "Short Antennas for 160 Meter Radio" and can/care to comment on its "usefulness"?

'

72 de Jim Rodenkirch K9JWV

From wd8dsb at gmail.com  Wed Dec 16 07:11:36 2015
From: wd8dsb at gmail.com (Don Kirk)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2015 07:11:36 -0500
Subject: Topband: Weatherproofing F-type connectors
In-Reply-To: <CAJ_qRvZ9Z2=p15_xDA66+3OTY+NZ+1-bRQOR_+WT-WLqMqiyeg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMPv1h6VjQp2=KOx9mZ6c9pE2xm_exws=UGXGayYwKQ2HoK5WA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJ_qRvYzzvZn8iZYfm4VXD0Ly0FHh=7EN7PTf12mvk47e4oo1Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<349B52C524834F3D89109FB56F8699F9@MAIN>
	<CAJ_qRvZ9Z2=p15_xDA66+3OTY+NZ+1-bRQOR_+WT-WLqMqiyeg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKtW65eWKvMs0mg=nCv0n9sVk8dDGkPho9Kg0i8Jc1Ukpxw3AQ@mail.gmail.com>

Tim,

$3.18 a piece at McMaster-Carr (18-8 stainless), part number 91862A318
<http://www.mcmaster.com/#91862A318>.

Don (wd8dsb)


On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 3:48 AM, Tim Shoppa <tshoppa at gmail.com> wrote:

> Wow, stainless 3/8-32 panel nut from Grainger, part number 1JLU9, $15 for
> 2. Maybe I can find something cheaper :-)
>
> Tim N3QE
>
> On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 2:36 AM, Tom W8JI <w8ji at w8ji.com> wrote:
>
> > My one concern, is the F-connector chassis-mount jacks. The jacks
> >> themselves seem rather impervious to moisture when a good F-plug with
> >> O-ring is kept plugged in. But the nuts for the jacks seem to rust
> really
> >> fast, really surprisingly fast, I end up replacing the jack and nut
> every
> >> year or two wherever they are exposed to weather.
> >>
> >
> > Use stainless steel nuts. Throw the steel nuts that come with the
> > connectors away.
> >
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>

From donovanf at starpower.net  Wed Dec 16 10:51:55 2015
From: donovanf at starpower.net (donovanf at starpower.net)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2015 10:51:55 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Topband: Weatherproofing F-type connectors
In-Reply-To: <CAJ_qRvZ9Z2=p15_xDA66+3OTY+NZ+1-bRQOR_+WT-WLqMqiyeg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1800754895.10977782.1450281115106.JavaMail.root@starpower.net>

Much more affordable 3/8-32 nickel plated brass nuts are widely available on eBay 


73 
Frank 
W3LPL 

----- Original Message -----

From: "Tim Shoppa" <tshoppa at gmail.com> 
Cc: "topBand List" <topband at contesting.com> 
Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2015 8:48:08 AM 
Subject: Re: Topband: Weatherproofing F-type connectors 

Wow, stainless 3/8-32 panel nut from Grainger, part number 1JLU9, $15 for 
2. Maybe I can find something cheaper :-) 

Tim N3QE 

On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 2:36 AM, Tom W8JI <w8ji at w8ji.com> wrote: 

> My one concern, is the F-connector chassis-mount jacks. The jacks 
>> themselves seem rather impervious to moisture when a good F-plug with 
>> O-ring is kept plugged in. But the nuts for the jacks seem to rust really 
>> fast, really surprisingly fast, I end up replacing the jack and nut every 
>> year or two wherever they are exposed to weather. 
>> 
> 
> Use stainless steel nuts. Throw the steel nuts that come with the 
> connectors away. 
> 
_________________ 
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband 


From tshoppa at gmail.com  Wed Dec 16 10:59:24 2015
From: tshoppa at gmail.com (Tim Shoppa)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2015 10:59:24 -0500
Subject: Topband: Weatherproofing F-type connectors
In-Reply-To: <1800754895.10977782.1450281115106.JavaMail.root@starpower.net>
References: <CAJ_qRvZ9Z2=p15_xDA66+3OTY+NZ+1-bRQOR_+WT-WLqMqiyeg@mail.gmail.com>
	<1800754895.10977782.1450281115106.JavaMail.root@starpower.net>
Message-ID: <CAJ_qRva+_iiHWTADwwgw_jjfVBzN8ZNpGYnOOYwqDwHVsmvBBA@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you Frank! I use other nickel-plated brass hardware outdoors and have
been quite satisfied with its durability in my weather. McMaster Carr has
the F connector nuts in nickel plated brass, 10 for $2, their part number
91862A521, I think I can afford to do W8JI's suggestion that way.

Tim N3QE

On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 10:51 AM, <donovanf at starpower.net> wrote:

> Much more affordable 3/8-32 nickel plated brass nuts are widely available
> on eBay
>
> 73
> Frank
> W3LPL
>
> ------------------------------
> *From: *"Tim Shoppa" <tshoppa at gmail.com>
> *Cc: *"topBand List" <topband at contesting.com>
> *Sent: *Wednesday, December 16, 2015 8:48:08 AM
> *Subject: *Re: Topband: Weatherproofing F-type connectors
>
>
> Wow, stainless 3/8-32 panel nut from Grainger, part number 1JLU9, $15 for
> 2. Maybe I can find something cheaper :-)
>
> Tim N3QE
>
> On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 2:36 AM, Tom W8JI <w8ji at w8ji.com> wrote:
>
> > My one concern, is the F-connector chassis-mount jacks. The jacks
> >> themselves seem rather impervious to moisture when a good F-plug with
> >> O-ring is kept plugged in. But the nuts for the jacks seem to rust
> really
> >> fast, really surprisingly fast, I end up replacing the jack and nut
> every
> >> year or two wherever they are exposed to weather.
> >>
> >
> > Use stainless steel nuts. Throw the steel nuts that come with the
> > connectors away.
> >
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
>

From mikewate at gmail.com  Wed Dec 16 11:20:32 2015
From: mikewate at gmail.com (Mike Waters)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2015 10:20:32 -0600
Subject: Topband: Weatherproofing F-type connectors
In-Reply-To: <CAMPv1h6VjQp2=KOx9mZ6c9pE2xm_exws=UGXGayYwKQ2HoK5WA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMPv1h6VjQp2=KOx9mZ6c9pE2xm_exws=UGXGayYwKQ2HoK5WA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+FxYXhn+tqCzFq1JpcOWV5GKcgX7zmG312Xqudstnc7pw9ULg@mail.gmail.com>

Apply some silicone dielectric compound (non-hardening silicone "grease")
to the coax center conductor. That will keep moisture out and prevent
corrosion.

Inside snap-and-seal F connectors, there is likely already some of that
inside where the coax is inserted.

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com

On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 8:43 PM, Larry K4AB <larry.k4ab at gmail.com> wrote:

> ... F type connectors and high quality flooded RG-6.
> Do these things need additional weatherproofing?
>

From w8ji at w8ji.com  Wed Dec 16 11:50:12 2015
From: w8ji at w8ji.com (Tom W8JI)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2015 11:50:12 -0500
Subject: Topband: Weatherproofing F-type connectors
References: <CAMPv1h6VjQp2=KOx9mZ6c9pE2xm_exws=UGXGayYwKQ2HoK5WA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+FxYXhn+tqCzFq1JpcOWV5GKcgX7zmG312Xqudstnc7pw9ULg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D9EDDCB0BA78411799C9F08B7D41FC1B@MAIN>

> Apply some silicone dielectric compound (non-hardening silicone "grease")
> to the coax center conductor. That will keep moisture out and prevent
> corrosion.
>

This actually belongs anyplace anything is threaded or clamped. It will 
displace from pressure and allow a connection, but it seal the joint from 
moisture and air.

I use it in connectors in my race car even. 


From k6uj at pacbell.net  Wed Dec 16 12:27:33 2015
From: k6uj at pacbell.net (Robert Harmon)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2015 09:27:33 -0800
Subject: Topband: ARRL book on short antennas for 160 meters
In-Reply-To: <SN1PR16MB0623BAC9AB8E757B2886D07EF0EF0@SN1PR16MB0623.namprd16.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SN1PR16MB06234ABDE2B5BC2E3F4F6FB3F0EE0@SN1PR16MB0623.namprd16.prod.outlook.com>
	<SN1PR16MB0623A371D565CCBA1939E510F0EF0@SN1PR16MB0623.namprd16.prod.outlook.com>
	<SN1PR16MB0623BAC9AB8E757B2886D07EF0EF0@SN1PR16MB0623.namprd16.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <56719F05.9050404@pacbell.net>

I was curious too Jim.
I aint buyin it either   hihihi

73,
Bob
K6UJ






On 12/16/15 3:41 AM, James Rodenkirch wrote:
>
> OKKKKKKKKKKK...read enuff replies - I ain't buying that book!! Tnx for alllllll the replies
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: James Rodenkirch
> Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2015 4:49 PM
> To: Top Band Contesting
> Subject: ARRL book on short antennas for 160 meters
>
>
>
>
> Anyone read "Short Antennas for 160 Meter Radio" and can/care to comment on its "usefulness"?
>
> '
>
> 72 de Jim Rodenkirch K9JWV
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>


From n1rj at roadrunner.com  Wed Dec 16 12:43:12 2015
From: n1rj at roadrunner.com (Roger D Johnson)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2015 12:43:12 -0500
Subject: Topband: Weatherproofing F-type connectors
In-Reply-To: <CAMPv1h6VjQp2=KOx9mZ6c9pE2xm_exws=UGXGayYwKQ2HoK5WA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMPv1h6VjQp2=KOx9mZ6c9pE2xm_exws=UGXGayYwKQ2HoK5WA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5671A2B0.8010700@roadrunner.com>

If you believe in the "belt and suspenders" approach, you can get sealing nuts for
the threaded end of the connectors. I use these plus a dab of silicone grease.

http://www.newark.com/thomas-betts/ns500/nut-snap-n-seal-connectors/dp/18C2287

73, Roger



On 12/15/2015 9:43 PM, Larry K4AB wrote:
> I'm in the process of installing a receive 4 square for 160
> using F type connectors and high quality flooded RG-6.
>
> Do these things need additional weatherproofing?
>
> As I recall all the many cable TV installations I have had
> over the decades, done by major cable and satellite companies,
> none have been weatherproofed.
>
> If its good enough for those guys, at those frequencies,
> shouldn't it be good for us at 1.8 MHz?
>
>
> 73,
> Larry K4AB
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>

From k6fsb.1 at gmail.com  Wed Dec 16 13:31:58 2015
From: k6fsb.1 at gmail.com (Renee K6FSB)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2015 10:31:58 -0800
Subject: Topband: Weatherproofing F-type connectors
In-Reply-To: <CAJ_qRva+_iiHWTADwwgw_jjfVBzN8ZNpGYnOOYwqDwHVsmvBBA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJ_qRvZ9Z2=p15_xDA66+3OTY+NZ+1-bRQOR_+WT-WLqMqiyeg@mail.gmail.com>	<1800754895.10977782.1450281115106.JavaMail.root@starpower.net>
	<CAJ_qRva+_iiHWTADwwgw_jjfVBzN8ZNpGYnOOYwqDwHVsmvBBA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5671AE1E.8020904@gmail.com>

since we are talking installation-----
I need to get a tool for connector installation, any preferences on tool 
for installing the connectors? or at least any that should be avoided as 
they do not last?
I noted two on epay - the red handled ones ( has stripper and just RG 6 
&59 plus some connectors!) and blue handled ones (no stripper but will 
handle rg 11 , 6 & 59)
Ren?e

Tim Shoppa wrote:
> Thank you Frank! I use other nickel-plated brass hardware outdoors and have
> been quite satisfied with its durability in my weather. McMaster Carr has
> the F connector nuts in nickel plated brass, 10 for $2, their part number
> 91862A521, I think I can afford to do W8JI's suggestion that way.
>
> Tim N3QE
>
> On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 10:51 AM, <donovanf at starpower.net> wrote:
>
>   
>> Much more affordable 3/8-32 nickel plated brass nuts are widely available
>> on eBay
>>
>> 73
>> Frank
>> W3LPL
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From: *"Tim Shoppa" <tshoppa at gmail.com>
>> *Cc: *"topBand List" <topband at contesting.com>
>> *Sent: *Wednesday, December 16, 2015 8:48:08 AM
>> *Subject: *Re: Topband: Weatherproofing F-type connectors
>>
>>
>> Wow, stainless 3/8-32 panel nut from Grainger, part number 1JLU9, $15 for
>> 2. Maybe I can find something cheaper :-)
>>
>> Tim N3QE
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 2:36 AM, Tom W8JI <w8ji at w8ji.com> wrote:
>>
>>     
>>> My one concern, is the F-connector chassis-mount jacks. The jacks
>>>       
>>>> themselves seem rather impervious to moisture when a good F-plug with
>>>> O-ring is kept plugged in. But the nuts for the jacks seem to rust
>>>>         
>> really
>>     
>>>> fast, really surprisingly fast, I end up replacing the jack and nut
>>>>         
>> every
>>     
>>>> year or two wherever they are exposed to weather.
>>>>
>>>>         
>>> Use stainless steel nuts. Throw the steel nuts that come with the
>>> connectors away.
>>>
>>>       
>> _________________
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>
>>
>>     
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
>   

From jim at audiosystemsgroup.com  Wed Dec 16 15:12:50 2015
From: jim at audiosystemsgroup.com (Jim Brown)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2015 12:12:50 -0800
Subject: Topband: Weatherproofing F-type connectors
In-Reply-To: <5671AE1E.8020904@gmail.com>
References: <CAJ_qRvZ9Z2=p15_xDA66+3OTY+NZ+1-bRQOR_+WT-WLqMqiyeg@mail.gmail.com>
	<1800754895.10977782.1450281115106.JavaMail.root@starpower.net>
	<CAJ_qRva+_iiHWTADwwgw_jjfVBzN8ZNpGYnOOYwqDwHVsmvBBA@mail.gmail.com>
	<5671AE1E.8020904@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5671C5C2.8000003@audiosystemsgroup.com>

You need two tools -- a stripper and a compression tool. Here's a nice, 
inexpensive compression tool.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Klein-Tools-Compact-F-Connector-Compression-Crimper-VDV212-008-SEN/203578631

Here are a couple of strippers similar to what I use.

http://www.markertek.com/product/pal-1255/paladin-1255-2-or-3-level-coaxial-stripper-for-rg58-59-62-rg6

http://www.markertek.com/product/pal-1257/paladin-1257-crimp-stripper

73, Jim K9YC

On Wed,12/16/2015 10:31 AM, Renee K6FSB wrote:
> since we are talking installation-----
> I need to get a tool for connector installation, any preferences on 
> tool for installing the connectors? or at least any that should be 
> avoided as they do not last?
> I noted two on epay - the red handled ones ( has stripper and just RG 
> 6 &59 plus some connectors!) and blue handled ones (no stripper but 
> will handle rg 11 , 6 & 59)


From pc2a at pi4cc.nl  Wed Dec 16 15:13:07 2015
From: pc2a at pi4cc.nl (Peter)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2015 21:13:07 +0100
Subject: Topband: ARRL book on short antennas for 160 meters
In-Reply-To: <SN1PR16MB06234ABDE2B5BC2E3F4F6FB3F0EE0@SN1PR16MB0623.namprd16.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SN1PR16MB06234ABDE2B5BC2E3F4F6FB3F0EE0@SN1PR16MB0623.namprd16.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <5671C5D3.3020804@pi4cc.nl>

James

Did you read https://www.pi4cc.nl/link/ ?

Peter
PC2A

Op 16-12-2015 om 0:49 schreef James Rodenkirch:
>
> Anyone read "Short Antennas for 160 Meter Radio" and can/care to comment on its "usefulness"?
>
> '
>
> 72 de Jim Rodenkirch K9JWV
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


From richard at karlquist.com  Wed Dec 16 15:13:30 2015
From: richard at karlquist.com (Richard (Rick) Karlquist)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2015 12:13:30 -0800
Subject: Topband: Weatherproofing F-type connectors
In-Reply-To: <5671AE1E.8020904@gmail.com>
References: <CAJ_qRvZ9Z2=p15_xDA66+3OTY+NZ+1-bRQOR_+WT-WLqMqiyeg@mail.gmail.com>
	<1800754895.10977782.1450281115106.JavaMail.root@starpower.net>
	<CAJ_qRva+_iiHWTADwwgw_jjfVBzN8ZNpGYnOOYwqDwHVsmvBBA@mail.gmail.com>
	<5671AE1E.8020904@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5671C5EA.7070809@karlquist.com>



On 12/16/2015 10:31 AM, Renee K6FSB wrote:
> since we are talking installation-----
> I need to get a tool for connector installation, any preferences on tool

> Ren?e
>

See:

http://www.amazon.com/Paladin-Tools-1928-3-Way-Multi-Tool/dp/B003N3U6SM

Rick N6RK


From n6bk at yahoo.com  Thu Dec 17 01:06:12 2015
From: n6bk at yahoo.com (Bob Kupps)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2015 06:06:12 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Topband: safely sharing an RX antenna
References: <1682384823.14705.1450332372459.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1682384823.14705.1450332372459.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

Hi I was thinking about using a 3dB splitter and tuning the band with our second K3 using our HiZ monoband 8 circle while we were calling CQ in the Stew. The center of the array is located 105 meters from the xmit vertical, uses 20' elements, the included preamp and 100m of RG6 transmission line.?
Could dangerously high signal levels appear at the unmuted second radio antenna terminal? What about if the second radio is inadvertently tuned to the xmit frequency? It would seem impossible if the external antenna preamps are not damaged...but I'm still a 1R op so I better ask first!
TU 73 Bob HS0ZIA

From adkmurray at yahoo.com  Thu Dec 17 01:17:32 2015
From: adkmurray at yahoo.com (Jim Murray)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2015 06:17:32 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Topband: Heathkit SB-1000
References: <879366181.7781.1450333052030.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <879366181.7781.1450333052030.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

Anybody know how to make an SB-1000 tune properly on 160? ?Ok on other bands but doesn't like 160, dummy load or well tuned Inv.L. ? Is it a quirk of the amp needing a modification or possibly a bad component? ?Saw nothing obvious before putting it to use but have not had the cover off since.Thanks,Jimk2hn

From rlcariello at verizon.net  Thu Dec 17 05:33:55 2015
From: rlcariello at verizon.net (Rich Cariello)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2015 05:33:55 -0500
Subject: Topband: Heathkit SB-1000
In-Reply-To: <879366181.7781.1450333052030.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <879366181.7781.1450333052030.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<879366181.7781.1450333052030.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <EEA6FFE9-42F4-4CC3-875C-3DAB52833A72@verizon.net>

Jim,
If I remember correctly placing an additional transmitting type cap across the units load cap did the job. Don't remember the value I used. My guess 100 or 200 PF. I used a cap I had in the junk box. You will need to remove the cap in most cases for the other bands. 
Rich AA2MF

Sent from my iPad

> On Dec 17, 2015, at 01:17, Jim Murray via Topband <topband at contesting.com> wrote:
> 
> Anybody know how to make an SB-1000 tune properly on 160?  Ok on other bands but doesn't like 160, dummy load or well tuned Inv.L.   Is it a quirk of the amp needing a modification or possibly a bad component?  Saw nothing obvious before putting it to use but have not had the cover off since.Thanks,Jimk2hn
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

From rlcariello at verizon.net  Thu Dec 17 05:54:57 2015
From: rlcariello at verizon.net (Rich Cariello)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2015 05:54:57 -0500
Subject: Topband: Heathkit SB-1000
In-Reply-To: <EEA6FFE9-42F4-4CC3-875C-3DAB52833A72@verizon.net>
References: <879366181.7781.1450333052030.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<879366181.7781.1450333052030.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
	<EEA6FFE9-42F4-4CC3-875C-3DAB52833A72@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <11C4C53A-AAD8-4931-8B68-E8A8DDB06012@verizon.net>

Jim,
To get closer to the needed value of the additional transmitting cap I would try to find out the max value of the load cap that came with the amp. Halve the value and that's what I would install. I recall the amp would kind of tune up around 2 mg with max load cap value. Adding an additional 50% cap allowed the amp to tune the hole 160 meter band. Bottom line just put in whatever you have and see what happens. But if you need to go out and buy something then the 50% cap value should do you. 
Rich AA2MF


Sent from my iPad

> On Dec 17, 2015, at 05:33, Rich Cariello <rlcariello at verizon.net> wrote:
> 
> Jim,
> If I remember correctly placing an additional transmitting type cap across the units load cap did the job. Don't remember the value I used. My guess 100 or 200 PF. I used a cap I had in the junk box. You will need to remove the cap in most cases for the other bands. 
> Rich AA2MF
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
>> On Dec 17, 2015, at 01:17, Jim Murray via Topband <topband at contesting.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Anybody know how to make an SB-1000 tune properly on 160?  Ok on other bands but doesn't like 160, dummy load or well tuned Inv.L.   Is it a quirk of the amp needing a modification or possibly a bad component?  Saw nothing obvious before putting it to use but have not had the cover off since.Thanks,Jimk2hn
>> _________________
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

From on7eh at skynet.be  Thu Dec 17 06:56:07 2015
From: on7eh at skynet.be (Michel Spelier)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2015 12:56:07 +0100 (CET)
Subject: Topband: 160m LP to LP DX contacts in 2015
Message-ID: <200316471.8763.1450353367899.open-xchange@webmail.nmp.proximus.be>

The title was changed to better describe the original question.
This topband newcomer asked what had happened to the topband conditions, given
the rare intercontinental Low Power to Low Power CW QSO?s,
even when riding upon sun propagation enhancements, as noted in this log, during
the last 6 or 7 winter topband contests.
(the last 3 years = topband newcomer)

At such distances, HP to my LP comprise the majority of the QSO?s, the amount of
LP to LP can be counted on one hand.
It is clear that LP to LP QSO?s to be very common, within eg. 3000km range (cfr.
TBDC) but once beyond, LP to LP QSO?s are exceptional
for non-exclusive callsigns.

This is with 100W and (a remotely fed ATU under) a quarterwave inv L (Tx) at
15m, down to 11m, with 50 radials of different lengths.
And with an unterminated Beverage (128m) as Rx-antenna (pointing NW/SE), on
farmers field with plenty of CM choking.

Summarizing your feedback: Two main causes seem to contribute:

1.Noise:

It would be interesting to learn by how much the noise floor has been raised
over more than half a century of topband operation?
How many dB?s were lost over time?

2.Co-channel interference:

I understand a very large concentration of NA-participants in contests to affect
their weak signal Rx-capabilities in a given bandwidth, losing a layer of weak
stations.

But even while Rx-ing (on the mid-size Beverage) during quiet (non-contest)
morning sunrise hours, signal levels (from NA) are so low and provide nowhere
the feeling,
a QSO with another similarly equipped DX-station to be possible?
As expected the log indicates, these handful LP to LP- QSO?s to have all
occurred during these timed & QTH-selective propagation enhancements.


73,

Michel, ON7EH


From herbert.schoenbohm at gmail.com  Thu Dec 17 07:03:00 2015
From: herbert.schoenbohm at gmail.com (Herbert Schoenbohm)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2015 08:03:00 -0400
Subject: Topband: Heathkit SB-1000
In-Reply-To: <1450350107738.825710962@boxbe>
References: <879366181.7781.1450333052030.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<879366181.7781.1450333052030.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
	<EEA6FFE9-42F4-4CC3-875C-3DAB52833A72@verizon.net>
	<1450350107738.825710962@boxbe>
Message-ID: <5672A474.8020307@gmail.com>

If you see no dip in the PA current then check and see if the tuning 
capacitor padding capacitor is open or disconnected.  Check the leaf on 
the band switch that corresponds to the `160 meter position which also 
switches in the additional fixed capacitor and make sure it is making a 
good contact.  In some  amps I have seem this auxiliary contact actually 
burn off.


Herb Schoenbohm, KV4FZ

On 12/17/2015 6:54 AM, Rich Cariello wrote:
> Boxbe <https://www.boxbe.com/overview> This message is eligible for 
> Automatic Cleanup! (rlcariello at verizon.net) Add cleanup rule 
> <https://www.boxbe.com/popup?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.boxbe.com%2Fcleanup%3Ftoken%3DeibFjnXBItuv8a%252Bmz1i6po%252F1cTcFksOfbCjk2RV%252B6pY9wtej91PtVrIuxl%252BeNyj49ySy7JMXQkvIWpYnNovwdS4kGkSQPQR8ZNI4FW2BbS6V4dNAE5SQM6uq6ZolVMT0hybvgW2lzG28DvZbrMimMg%253D%253D%26key%3DFbCWKugk%252FURXA7ASJ%252Fnp6gsYXiMiA7HDnFcziNpgX8Y%253D&tc_serial=23683024394&tc_rand=134295741&utm_source=stf&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=ANNO_CLEANUP_ADD&utm_content=001> 
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>
>
>
> Jim,
> To get closer to the needed value of the additional transmitting cap I would try to find out the max value of the load cap that came with the amp. Halve the value and that's what I would install. I recall the amp would kind of tune up around 2 mg with max load cap value. Adding an additional 50% cap allowed the amp to tune the hole 160 meter band. Bottom line just put in whatever you have and see what happens. But if you need to go out and buy something then the 50% cap value should do you.
> Rich AA2MF
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Dec 17, 2015, at 05:33, Rich Cariello <rlcariello at verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>> Jim,
>> If I remember correctly placing an additional transmitting type cap across the units load cap did the job. Don't remember the value I used. My guess 100 or 200 PF. I used a cap I had in the junk box. You will need to remove the cap in most cases for the other bands.
>> Rich AA2MF
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>>> On Dec 17, 2015, at 01:17, Jim Murray via Topband <topband at contesting.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Anybody know how to make an SB-1000 tune properly on 160?  Ok on other bands but doesn't like 160, dummy load or well tuned Inv.L.   Is it a quirk of the amp needing a modification or possibly a bad component?  Saw nothing obvious before putting it to use but have not had the cover off since.Thanks,Jimk2hn
>>> _________________
>>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>> _________________
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


From gudguyham at aol.com  Thu Dec 17 07:25:26 2015
From: gudguyham at aol.com (Louis Parascondola)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2015 07:25:26 -0500
Subject: Topband: Heathkit SB-1000
In-Reply-To: <11C4C53A-AAD8-4931-8B68-E8A8DDB06012@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <151afe6f04d-1e7a-1681c@webprd-a21.mail.aol.com>

SOmetimes many amps require additional padding on 160m  Add another 200pf to what is already there for 160.  It is necessary to put a brass washer around the contact on the wafer that adds in the padding cap on 160m.  See photo of Al-80A on internet to see where it needs to go.  This is a must or else eventually that contact will burn up if it hasen't already.



-----Original Message-----
From: Rich Cariello <rlcariello at verizon.net>
To: Jim Murray <adkmurray at yahoo.com>
Cc: topband <topband at contesting.com>
Sent: Thu, Dec 17, 2015 6:00 am
Subject: Re: Topband: Heathkit SB-1000

Jim,
To get closer to the needed value of the additional transmitting cap I would try to find out the max value of the load cap that came with the amp. Halve the value and that's what I would install. I recall the amp would kind of tune up around 2 mg with max load cap value. Adding an additional 50% cap allowed the amp to tune the hole 160 meter band. Bottom line just put in whatever you have and see what happens. But if you need to go out and buy something then the 50% cap value should do you. 
Rich AA2MF


Sent from my iPad

> On Dec 17, 2015, at 05:33, Rich Cariello <rlcariello at verizon.net> wrote:
> 
> Jim,
> If I remember correctly placing an additional transmitting type cap across the units load cap did the job. Don't remember the value I used. My guess 100 or 200 PF. I used a cap I had in the junk box. You will need to remove the cap in most cases for the other bands. 
> Rich AA2MF
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
>> On Dec 17, 2015, at 01:17, Jim Murray via Topband <topband at contesting.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Anybody know how to make an SB-1000 tune properly on 160?  Ok on other bands but doesn't like 160, dummy load or well tuned Inv.L.   Is it a quirk of the amp needing a modification or possibly a bad component?  Saw nothing obvious before putting it to use but have not had the cover off since.Thanks,Jimk2hn
>> _________________
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
_________________
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


From w8ji at w8ji.com  Thu Dec 17 07:30:32 2015
From: w8ji at w8ji.com (Tom W8JI)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2015 07:30:32 -0500
Subject: Topband: Heathkit SB-1000
References: <879366181.7781.1450333052030.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<879366181.7781.1450333052030.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <2C712BFE8C5641CFBE7179BEC25AA2DA@MAIN>

> Anybody know how to make an SB-1000 tune properly on 160? Ok on other 
> bands but doesn't like 160, dummy load or well tuned Inv.L. Is it a quirk 
> of the amp needing a modification or possibly a bad component? Saw nothing 
> obvious before putting it to use but have not had the cover off 
> since.Thanks,Jimk2hn
> _________________

The SB1000 is the same as an early AL80A. It hits the 160 band perfectly as 
long as it does not have a component off value or a wiring error. The tank 
was unchanged all through the run of the AL80A up until the 80B was out.

Which control is bottoming out? The plate or the loading?  How much power 
are you trying to run when tuning it?



From gudguyham at aol.com  Thu Dec 17 07:36:08 2015
From: gudguyham at aol.com (Louis Parascondola)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2015 07:36:08 -0500
Subject: Topband: Heathkit SB-1000
In-Reply-To: <2C712BFE8C5641CFBE7179BEC25AA2DA@MAIN>
References: <879366181.7781.1450333052030.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<879366181.7781.1450333052030.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
	<2C712BFE8C5641CFBE7179BEC25AA2DA@MAIN>
Message-ID: <151aff0bc2b-1e7a-16849@webprd-a21.mail.aol.com>

Good point Tom, beginning with too little drive would require more load C than is available.  That and the brass washer should be installed also.



-----Original Message-----
From: Tom W8JI <w8ji at w8ji.com>
To: Jim Murray <adkmurray at yahoo.com>; topband <topband at contesting.com>
Sent: Thu, Dec 17, 2015 7:31 am
Subject: Re: Topband: Heathkit SB-1000

> Anybody know how to make an SB-1000 tune properly on 160? Ok on other 
> bands but doesn't like 160, dummy load or well tuned Inv.L. Is it a quirk 
> of the amp needing a modification or possibly a bad component? Saw nothing 
> obvious before putting it to use but have not had the cover off 
> since.Thanks,Jimk2hn
> _________________

The SB1000 is the same as an early AL80A. It hits the 160 band perfectly as 
long as it does not have a component off value or a wiring error. The tank 
was unchanged all through the run of the AL80A up until the 80B was out.

Which control is bottoming out? The plate or the loading?  How much power 
are you trying to run when tuning it?


_________________
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


From w8ji at w8ji.com  Thu Dec 17 08:31:00 2015
From: w8ji at w8ji.com (Tom W8JI)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2015 08:31:00 -0500
Subject: Topband: Heathkit SB-1000
References: <879366181.7781.1450333052030.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com><879366181.7781.1450333052030.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com><2C712BFE8C5641CFBE7179BEC25AA2DA@MAIN>
	<151aff0bc2b-1e7a-16849@webprd-a21.mail.aol.com>
Message-ID: <AB2A6F02234846518FA6258325B1A52C@MAIN>



> Good point Tom, beginning with too little drive would require more load C 
> than is available.  That and the brass washer should be installed also.
>

Hi Lou,

The anti-corona washer was not in the SB1000 or early AL80A. It should be 
added if a user might happen to mistune.

But I'd like to reiterate......the LAST thing to do is just start throwing 
padding capacitors in.  That tank will tune fine as designed unless it has a 
component or wiring problem, or unless the drive level is too low to match.

If it is being driven with 50 watts or more and does not tune into a 50 ohm 
load, I'd carefully inspect the entire tank circuit and wiring of the tank. 
This includes the switch (as Herb suggested).

Don't just go throwing parts in.

73 Tom
 


From herbs at vitelcom.net  Thu Dec 17 08:38:13 2015
From: herbs at vitelcom.net (Herbert Schoenbohm)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2015 09:38:13 -0400
Subject: Topband: 160m LP to LP DX contacts in 2015
In-Reply-To: <200316471.8763.1450353367899.open-xchange@webmail.nmp.proximus.be>
References: <200316471.8763.1450353367899.open-xchange@webmail.nmp.proximus.be>
Message-ID: <5672BAC5.7090409@vitelcom.net>

Well not to appear to be entirely disputatious we should carefully 
consider KP4KE CQ WW 160 meter QRP entry in 2005 which he said he 
accomplished with 4.7 watts to a "magical antenna" which he called a 
"double bazooka" at 60 feet both for RX and TX.  While claiming to work 
42 countries with this magical antenna (which is actually a low dipole) 
in a few hours of operating, I thought I would try and see what 5 watts 
could actually in fact really do on TB. Using a 1/4 wave vertical and 12 
Beverages a few weeks later, and many days after that when the band 
conditions where hot, I called CQ for 4 hours each night without a 
single reply.  During this contest I recall hearing NP4A and Pedro's 
great set up running full power, and very high dipole at 200' and the 
signals were always the same on 160 at my location. So either KP4KE has 
a "magic antenna" or his "QRP" entry in the CQ WW 160 meter QRP category 
totally lacked credulity.

Herb Schoenbohm, KV4FZ



2005 	KP4KE 	SO QRP 160M 	37,345 	364/13/42





On 12/17/2015 7:56 AM, Michel Spelier wrote:
> The title was changed to better describe the original question.
> This topband newcomer asked what had happened to the topband conditions, given
> the rare intercontinental Low Power to Low Power CW QSO?s,
> even when riding upon sun propagation enhancements, as noted in this log, during
> the last 6 or 7 winter topband contests.
> (the last 3 years = topband newcomer)
>
> (snip)
>
> 73,
>
> Michel, ON7EH
>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


From k6uj at pacbell.net  Thu Dec 17 10:48:44 2015
From: k6uj at pacbell.net (Robert Harmon)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2015 07:48:44 -0800
Subject: Topband: 160m LP to LP DX contacts in 2015
In-Reply-To: <5672BAC5.7090409@vitelcom.net>
References: <200316471.8763.1450353367899.open-xchange@webmail.nmp.proximus.be>
	<5672BAC5.7090409@vitelcom.net>
Message-ID: <5672D95C.5030105@pacbell.net>

Herb,

Herb,

In order for us to respond to your allegations you will need to provide 
support evidence.  We will need details on his actual antenna 
configuration, was he using a counterpoise of some sort,  is he on a 
hill,  how close is he to the water ?  Do you have proof that he was 
running more than 5 watts ?
Comparing his results to your test is meaningless, there are too many 
variables to consider.
You have the burden of proof.  Either provide factual evidence to 
support your allegations or give
KP4KE an apology for potentially damaging his reputation.

Bob
K6UJ



On 12/17/15 5:38 AM, Herbert Schoenbohm wrote:
> Well not to appear to be entirely disputatious we should carefully 
> consider KP4KE CQ WW 160 meter QRP entry in 2005 which he said he 
> accomplished with 4.7 watts to a "magical antenna" which he called a 
> "double bazooka" at 60 feet both for RX and TX.  While claiming to 
> work 42 countries with this magical antenna (which is actually a low 
> dipole) in a few hours of operating, I thought I would try and see 
> what 5 watts could actually in fact really do on TB. Using a 1/4 wave 
> vertical and 12 Beverages a few weeks later, and many days after that 
> when the band conditions where hot, I called CQ for 4 hours each night 
> without a single reply.  During this contest I recall hearing NP4A and 
> Pedro's great set up running full power, and very high dipole at 200' 
> and the signals were always the same on 160 at my location. So either 
> KP4KE has a "magic antenna" or his "QRP" entry in the CQ WW 160 meter 
> QRP category totally lacked credulity.
>
> Herb Schoenbohm, KV4FZ
>
>
>
> 2005     KP4KE     SO QRP 160M     37,345     364/13/42
>
>
>
>
>
> On 12/17/2015 7:56 AM, Michel Spelier wrote:
>> The title was changed to better describe the original question.
>> This topband newcomer asked what had happened to the topband 
>> conditions, given
>> the rare intercontinental Low Power to Low Power CW QSO?s,
>> even when riding upon sun propagation enhancements, as noted in this 
>> log, during
>> the last 6 or 7 winter topband contests.
>> (the last 3 years = topband newcomer)
>>
>> (snip)
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> Michel, ON7EH
>>
>> _________________
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


From herbert.schoenbohm at gmail.com  Thu Dec 17 11:12:43 2015
From: herbert.schoenbohm at gmail.com (Herbert Schoenbohm)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2015 12:12:43 -0400
Subject: Topband: 160m LP to LP DX contacts in 2015
In-Reply-To: <1450367548660.1177924464@boxbe>
References: <200316471.8763.1450353367899.open-xchange@webmail.nmp.proximus.be>
	<5672BAC5.7090409@vitelcom.net> <1450367548660.1177924464@boxbe>
Message-ID: <5672DEFB.7020300@gmail.com>

Bob. I am a broadcast engineer and very capable of measuring ground-wave 
signals. The FCC does exactly that where issuing citations for pre-dawn 
AM broadcast stations who are licensed for QRP and actually running QRO. 
This method has been used for many years.
Ground wave measurement lack the variables you speak of.  Actually my 
post was in sorts complimentary to KP4KE's "magic 160 meter antenna"  
which should in fact if it works this way should be published in the 
Proceedings of the IEEE, don't you think?


Herb, KV4FZ

On 12/17/2015 11:48 AM, Robert Harmon wrote:
> Boxbe <https://www.boxbe.com/overview> This message is eligible for 
> Automatic Cleanup! (k6uj at pacbell.net) Add cleanup rule 
> <https://www.boxbe.com/popup?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.boxbe.com%2Fcleanup%3Ftoken%3D2DTIFrLimSp%252BhSqFSWPlPGpGfrFs8Yx2sou4r%252Bccrz93Z1cMP3pVK5wZkLEFg82aWVJXw9j35AlFBHeZz6vihItZJsAax81dJyZWDRhJ0FQx8EydgsKEhDgABC%252B0Bda4D6pzSiP7GxY%253D%26key%3DPOSkL6N0PYx0vhEg2c51JhKs3agUe0ovnxicXZ1jQ%252Fo%253D&tc_serial=23686016985&tc_rand=1478989256&utm_source=stf&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=ANNO_CLEANUP_ADD&utm_content=001> 
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>
> Herb,
>
> Herb,
>
> In order for us to respond to your allegations you will need to 
> provide support evidence.  We will need details on his actual antenna 
> configuration, was he using a counterpoise of some sort, is he on a 
> hill,  how close is he to the water ?  Do you have proof that he was 
> running more than 5 watts ?
> Comparing his results to your test is meaningless, there are too many 
> variables to consider.
> You have the burden of proof.  Either provide factual evidence to 
> support your allegations or give
> KP4KE an apology for potentially damaging his reputation.
>
> Bob
> K6UJ
>
>
>
> On 12/17/15 5:38 AM, Herbert Schoenbohm wrote:
>> Well not to appear to be entirely disputatious we should carefully 
>> consider KP4KE CQ WW 160 meter QRP entry in 2005 which he said he 
>> accomplished with 4.7 watts to a "magical antenna" which he called a 
>> "double bazooka" at 60 feet both for RX and TX.  While claiming to 
>> work 42 countries with this magical antenna (which is actually a low 
>> dipole) in a few hours of operating, I thought I would try and see 
>> what 5 watts could actually in fact really do on TB. Using a 1/4 wave 
>> vertical and 12 Beverages a few weeks later, and many days after that 
>> when the band conditions where hot, I called CQ for 4 hours each 
>> night without a single reply.  During this contest I recall hearing 
>> NP4A and Pedro's great set up running full power, and very high 
>> dipole at 200' and the signals were always the same on 160 at my 
>> location. So either KP4KE has a "magic antenna" or his "QRP" entry in 
>> the CQ WW 160 meter QRP category totally lacked credulity.
>>
>> Herb Schoenbohm, KV4FZ
>>
>>
>>
>> 2005     KP4KE     SO QRP 160M     37,345     364/13/42
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 12/17/2015 7:56 AM, Michel Spelier wrote:
>>> The title was changed to better describe the original question.
>>> This topband newcomer asked what had happened to the topband 
>>> conditions, given
>>> the rare intercontinental Low Power to Low Power CW QSO?s,
>>> even when riding upon sun propagation enhancements, as noted in this 
>>> log, during
>>> the last 6 or 7 winter topband contests.
>>> (the last 3 years = topband newcomer)
>>>
>>> (snip)
>>>
>>> 73,
>>>
>>> Michel, ON7EH
>>>
>>> _________________
>>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>
>> _________________
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


From tshoppa at gmail.com  Thu Dec 17 11:20:45 2015
From: tshoppa at gmail.com (Tim Shoppa)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2015 11:20:45 -0500
Subject: Topband: 160m LP to LP DX contacts in 2015
In-Reply-To: <5672D95C.5030105@pacbell.net>
References: <200316471.8763.1450353367899.open-xchange@webmail.nmp.proximus.be>
	<5672BAC5.7090409@vitelcom.net> <5672D95C.5030105@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <CAJ_qRvZNb32eAVpMUgB0F4PgAnwhqgDKXn5u73C5wi0kM9gGLw@mail.gmail.com>

Reversebeacon can shed some light on this today but data does not go back
to 2005.

I always chortle at the claims of power output that go to such high
precision like "4.7 watts". Reminds me a lot of when Jim burned down
Louie's apartment in the TV series Taxi, and Louie is trying to come up
with a fake dollar number for damage claims:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QsFDpTEl84

Tim N3QE

On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 10:48 AM, Robert Harmon <k6uj at pacbell.net> wrote:

> Herb,
>
> Herb,
>
> In order for us to respond to your allegations you will need to provide
> support evidence.  We will need details on his actual antenna
> configuration, was he using a counterpoise of some sort,  is he on a hill,
> how close is he to the water ?  Do you have proof that he was running more
> than 5 watts ?
> Comparing his results to your test is meaningless, there are too many
> variables to consider.
> You have the burden of proof.  Either provide factual evidence to support
> your allegations or give
> KP4KE an apology for potentially damaging his reputation.
>
> Bob
> K6UJ
>
>
>
>
> On 12/17/15 5:38 AM, Herbert Schoenbohm wrote:
>
>> Well not to appear to be entirely disputatious we should carefully
>> consider KP4KE CQ WW 160 meter QRP entry in 2005 which he said he
>> accomplished with 4.7 watts to a "magical antenna" which he called a
>> "double bazooka" at 60 feet both for RX and TX.  While claiming to work 42
>> countries with this magical antenna (which is actually a low dipole) in a
>> few hours of operating, I thought I would try and see what 5 watts could
>> actually in fact really do on TB. Using a 1/4 wave vertical and 12
>> Beverages a few weeks later, and many days after that when the band
>> conditions where hot, I called CQ for 4 hours each night without a single
>> reply.  During this contest I recall hearing NP4A and Pedro's great set up
>> running full power, and very high dipole at 200' and the signals were
>> always the same on 160 at my location. So either KP4KE has a "magic
>> antenna" or his "QRP" entry in the CQ WW 160 meter QRP category totally
>> lacked credulity.
>>
>> Herb Schoenbohm, KV4FZ
>>
>>
>>
>> 2005     KP4KE     SO QRP 160M     37,345     364/13/42
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 12/17/2015 7:56 AM, Michel Spelier wrote:
>>
>>> The title was changed to better describe the original question.
>>> This topband newcomer asked what had happened to the topband conditions,
>>> given
>>> the rare intercontinental Low Power to Low Power CW QSO?s,
>>> even when riding upon sun propagation enhancements, as noted in this
>>> log, during
>>> the last 6 or 7 winter topband contests.
>>> (the last 3 years = topband newcomer)
>>>
>>> (snip)
>>>
>>> 73,
>>>
>>> Michel, ON7EH
>>>
>>> _________________
>>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>>
>>
>> _________________
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>
>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>

From tree at kkn.net  Thu Dec 17 11:26:09 2015
From: tree at kkn.net (Tree)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2015 08:26:09 -0800
Subject: Topband: 160m LP to LP DX contacts in 2015
In-Reply-To: <CAJ_qRvZNb32eAVpMUgB0F4PgAnwhqgDKXn5u73C5wi0kM9gGLw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <200316471.8763.1450353367899.open-xchange@webmail.nmp.proximus.be>
	<5672BAC5.7090409@vitelcom.net> <5672D95C.5030105@pacbell.net>
	<CAJ_qRvZNb32eAVpMUgB0F4PgAnwhqgDKXn5u73C5wi0kM9gGLw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKF9HhabSn=bZr5n8ba6mmBMfPat64QtfU4_bp3KbH=NLESGtA@mail.gmail.com>

The matter of whether KP4KE is running QRP or not during contests is not
really the type of subject that this list was created for.

Thanks.

Management


On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 8:20 AM, Tim Shoppa <tshoppa at gmail.com> wrote:

> Reversebeacon can shed some light on this today but data does not go back
> to 2005.
>
> I always chortle at the claims of power output that go to such high
> precision like "4.7 watts". Reminds me a lot of when Jim burned down
> Louie's apartment in the TV series Taxi, and Louie is trying to come up
> with a fake dollar number for damage claims:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QsFDpTEl84
>
> Tim N3QE
>
> On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 10:48 AM, Robert Harmon <k6uj at pacbell.net> wrote:
>
> > Herb,
> >
> > Herb,
> >
> > In order for us to respond to your allegations you will need to provide
> > support evidence.  We will need details on his actual antenna
> > configuration, was he using a counterpoise of some sort,  is he on a
> hill,
> > how close is he to the water ?  Do you have proof that he was running
> more
> > than 5 watts ?
> > Comparing his results to your test is meaningless, there are too many
> > variables to consider.
> > You have the burden of proof.  Either provide factual evidence to support
> > your allegations or give
> > KP4KE an apology for potentially damaging his reputation.
> >
> > Bob
> > K6UJ
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 12/17/15 5:38 AM, Herbert Schoenbohm wrote:
> >
> >> Well not to appear to be entirely disputatious we should carefully
> >> consider KP4KE CQ WW 160 meter QRP entry in 2005 which he said he
> >> accomplished with 4.7 watts to a "magical antenna" which he called a
> >> "double bazooka" at 60 feet both for RX and TX.  While claiming to work
> 42
> >> countries with this magical antenna (which is actually a low dipole) in
> a
> >> few hours of operating, I thought I would try and see what 5 watts could
> >> actually in fact really do on TB. Using a 1/4 wave vertical and 12
> >> Beverages a few weeks later, and many days after that when the band
> >> conditions where hot, I called CQ for 4 hours each night without a
> single
> >> reply.  During this contest I recall hearing NP4A and Pedro's great set
> up
> >> running full power, and very high dipole at 200' and the signals were
> >> always the same on 160 at my location. So either KP4KE has a "magic
> >> antenna" or his "QRP" entry in the CQ WW 160 meter QRP category totally
> >> lacked credulity.
> >>
> >> Herb Schoenbohm, KV4FZ
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> 2005     KP4KE     SO QRP 160M     37,345     364/13/42
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 12/17/2015 7:56 AM, Michel Spelier wrote:
> >>
> >>> The title was changed to better describe the original question.
> >>> This topband newcomer asked what had happened to the topband
> conditions,
> >>> given
> >>> the rare intercontinental Low Power to Low Power CW QSO?s,
> >>> even when riding upon sun propagation enhancements, as noted in this
> >>> log, during
> >>> the last 6 or 7 winter topband contests.
> >>> (the last 3 years = topband newcomer)
> >>>
> >>> (snip)
> >>>
> >>> 73,
> >>>
> >>> Michel, ON7EH
> >>>
> >>> _________________
> >>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> >>>
> >>
> >> _________________
> >> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> >>
> >
> > _________________
> > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> >
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>

From sawyered at earthlink.net  Thu Dec 17 11:29:32 2015
From: sawyered at earthlink.net (Ed Sawyer)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2015 11:29:32 -0500
Subject: Topband: 160m LP to LP DX contacts in 2015
Message-ID: <000001d138e8$1e3da6a0$5ab8f3e0$@earthlink.net>

Bob, 

 

I am not sure if you are aware that KP4KE allegations and confirmed actions
are legendary.  People have operated from his station and never had the same
result (can't imagine why).  Also, KP4KE was legendary for self spotting.
He asked me to spot him one year in the ARRL DX contest and I just ignored
him.  I noticed later that N1UR spotted KP4KE.  Hard for me to do
unconnected to the internet at the time.

 

There is not a Top bander on the planet that believes KP4KE was using 5W in
many of the claimed contest operations.

 

73

 

Ed  N1UR


From w8ji at w8ji.com  Thu Dec 17 12:32:58 2015
From: w8ji at w8ji.com (Tom W8JI)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2015 12:32:58 -0500
Subject: Topband: 160m LP to LP DX contacts in 2015
References: <200316471.8763.1450353367899.open-xchange@webmail.nmp.proximus.be><5672BAC5.7090409@vitelcom.net>
	<5672D95C.5030105@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <DBADEEA896D04E54A5850B5EC374A9C7@MAIN>

> In order for us to respond to your allegations you will need to provide 
> support evidence.  We will need details on his actual antenna 
> configuration, was he using a counterpoise of some sort,  is he on a hill, 
> how close is he to the water ?  Do you have proof that he was running more 
> than 5 watts ?
> Comparing his results to your test is meaningless, there are too many 
> variables to consider.

While a list like this isn't the place for accusations, I'd like to offer 
some common sense on this because it goes broadly to the actual topic.

It is difficult to tell power level of people running poor antennas. A 
coaxial dipole actually has loss over a normal dipole and is no better for 
receiving, and we all know a low dipole is generally not good except special 
times.

A low dipole, however, can be surprisingly good at certain times. During 
band peak at sunrise or sunset, it can be competitive or above a tall very 
good vertical. The same is true during geomagnetic storms.

Back in the 60's, before everyone knew a lot about antennas, many stations 
used low power and dipoles and had impressive DX. But to be sure, it took 
months and years to work the DX. Very few people could run DX, it was doing 
good to work even a half dozen DX stations in hours of great effort.  For 
me, it was good to work one or two DX in an entire evening. It took many 
years, not just a contest weekend or two, to work DXCC on 160.

This was partly because of lack of stations, but mostly because people used 
poor antennas and low power. Even high power, prior to the early 1980's, was 
a kilowatt input or about 600 watts output. A California kilowatt was 
something like a 4-1000A....which could really only make 1300 watts or so 
output normally in grounded grid, and 2 kW out if totally hammered.

If we look back at the TIME spent and the equipment and power levels, it all 
makes sense. No one ever had runs of 160 DX consistently even as late as the 
70's. It wasn't until 1500 watts and Beverages became normal that we were 
spoiled.

It is very easy to tell 5 watts from 500 because it is 20 dB, but it gets a 
little rough to tell 5 from 50. 10 dB (or even more) is easily in antenna 
and location differences even when close to the same area.

If a low dipole stands out from other similar or better antennas by a whole 
bunch, and it consistently better over a long period of time, it is not 
because it is a "special" dipole or "special" location. We know that because 
it is 1960's technology, and back in the 60's using that technology of low 
power and generally crappy antennas DX QSO's were rare and very difficult.

Antenna technology, noise, and QRM has made the spread in performance 
difference between locations much greater.

73 Tom 


From adkmurray at yahoo.com  Thu Dec 17 13:56:25 2015
From: adkmurray at yahoo.com (Jim Murray)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2015 18:56:25 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Topband: SB-1000
References: <474137846.313004.1450378585922.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <474137846.313004.1450378585922.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

If it is being driven with 50 watts or more and does not tune into a 50 ohm?
load, I'd carefully inspect the entire tank circuit and wiring of the tank.?
This includes the switch (as Herb suggested).

Thanks to all. ?I will go over it again today. ?I initially started out on 160 and then moved on to other bands. ?On 160 I could not get any increase in grid current, it came up but no increase with plate tuning but may ?not have applied enough drive. ?Staying below the 200ma grid and 400ma plate and just shooting for 500-600 watts on all bands right now. ?I did go over the switch before using the amp and it looked good and also deoxit it. The only ?thing I changed was 115v to 220. ?Probably just operator error since it's been a ?while doing any maxing and dipping:)Jimk2hn

From r7lv at dx.ru  Thu Dec 17 14:12:02 2015
From: r7lv at dx.ru (r7lv)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2015 22:12:02 +0300
Subject: Topband: RUSSIAN 160 METER CONTEST
Message-ID: <1242911306.20151217221202@dx.ru>



         Dear friends,

RUSSIAN 160 METER CONTEST will be held from 20.00 to 24.00 UTC, on the 19th December 2014.

The Rules of the Contest are at http://www.radio.ru/cq/contest/rule-results/index2012.shtml

Current Rules were approximated with RDXC Rules, and any RDXC software may be used in this contest.

In previous years, various ideas were discussed, both negative and positive, but finally
positive ideas predominated, - even from those who are against Rules changes.
Operators from almost 50 Russian oblasts participated in the last Contest.

Please note: THERE IS NO 10-minutes rule for club stations.

Welcome to participate in RUSSIAN 160 METER CONTEST !



73! Vlad
-- 
? ?????????,
R7LV            mailto:   r7lv at dx.ru   ua6lv at dx.ru   ua6lv at mail.ru


From r7lv at dx.ru  Thu Dec 17 14:15:04 2015
From: r7lv at dx.ru (r7lv)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2015 22:15:04 +0300
Subject: Topband: RUSSIAN 160 METER CONTES
Message-ID: <688549458.20151217221504@dx.ru>


  Sorry for mistake :


RUSSIAN 160 METER CONTEST will be held from 20.00 to 24.00 UTC, on the
18th December 2015


73! Vlad
-- 
? ?????????,
R7LV            mailto:   r7lv at dx.ru   ua6lv at dx.ru   ua6lv at mail.ru


From k6uj at pacbell.net  Thu Dec 17 14:26:13 2015
From: k6uj at pacbell.net (Robert Harmon)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2015 11:26:13 -0800
Subject: Topband: 160m LP to LP DX contacts in 2015
In-Reply-To: <5672DEFB.7020300@gmail.com>
References: <200316471.8763.1450353367899.open-xchange@webmail.nmp.proximus.be>
	<5672BAC5.7090409@vitelcom.net> <1450367548660.1177924464@boxbe>
	<5672DEFB.7020300@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56730C55.3030403@pacbell.net>

Herb,

No one is questioning your qualifications or expertise Herb.  I am an 
engineer also.  The point
I attempted to get across is that it is in very poor taste for us to 
post on a public reflector negative
allegations about anyone in the amateur community whether we feel it is 
justified or not.  There are other constructive ways to deal with the 
issue off the reflector.  As our moderator just posted this is not the 
type of message this forum is for.
I hope you understand my intent.  Please forgive me if I ruffled your 
feathers !  I am planning a 160M vertical with elevated radials and will 
be asking for some guidance on the reflector.  I would like your advice too.


73,
Bob
K6UJ



On 12/17/15 8:12 AM, Herbert Schoenbohm wrote:
> Bob. I am a broadcast engineer and very capable of measuring 
> ground-wave signals. The FCC does exactly that where issuing citations 
> for pre-dawn AM broadcast stations who are licensed for QRP and 
> actually running QRO. This method has been used for many years.
> Ground wave measurement lack the variables you speak of.  Actually my 
> post was in sorts complimentary to KP4KE's "magic 160 meter antenna"  
> which should in fact if it works this way should be published in the 
> Proceedings of the IEEE, don't you think?
>
>
> Herb, KV4FZ
>
> On 12/17/2015 11:48 AM, Robert Harmon wrote:
>> Boxbe <https://www.boxbe.com/overview> This message is eligible for 
>> Automatic Cleanup! (k6uj at pacbell.net) Add cleanup rule 
>> <https://www.boxbe.com/popup?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.boxbe.com%2Fcleanup%3Ftoken%3D2DTIFrLimSp%252BhSqFSWPlPGpGfrFs8Yx2sou4r%252Bccrz93Z1cMP3pVK5wZkLEFg82aWVJXw9j35AlFBHeZz6vihItZJsAax81dJyZWDRhJ0FQx8EydgsKEhDgABC%252B0Bda4D6pzSiP7GxY%253D%26key%3DPOSkL6N0PYx0vhEg2c51JhKs3agUe0ovnxicXZ1jQ%252Fo%253D&tc_serial=23686016985&tc_rand=1478989256&utm_source=stf&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=ANNO_CLEANUP_ADD&utm_content=001> 
>> | More info 
>> <http://blog.boxbe.com/general/boxbe-automatic-cleanup?tc_serial=23686016985&tc_rand=1478989256&utm_source=stf&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=ANNO_CLEANUP_ADD&utm_content=001> 
>>
>> Herb,
>>
>> Herb,
>>
>> In order for us to respond to your allegations you will need to 
>> provide support evidence.  We will need details on his actual antenna 
>> configuration, was he using a counterpoise of some sort, is he on a 
>> hill,  how close is he to the water ?  Do you have proof that he was 
>> running more than 5 watts ?
>> Comparing his results to your test is meaningless, there are too many 
>> variables to consider.
>> You have the burden of proof.  Either provide factual evidence to 
>> support your allegations or give
>> KP4KE an apology for potentially damaging his reputation.
>>
>> Bob
>> K6UJ
>>
>>
>>
>> On 12/17/15 5:38 AM, Herbert Schoenbohm wrote:
>>> Well not to appear to be entirely disputatious we should carefully 
>>> consider KP4KE CQ WW 160 meter QRP entry in 2005 which he said he 
>>> accomplished with 4.7 watts to a "magical antenna" which he called a 
>>> "double bazooka" at 60 feet both for RX and TX.  While claiming to 
>>> work 42 countries with this magical antenna (which is actually a low 
>>> dipole) in a few hours of operating, I thought I would try and see 
>>> what 5 watts could actually in fact really do on TB. Using a 1/4 
>>> wave vertical and 12 Beverages a few weeks later, and many days 
>>> after that when the band conditions where hot, I called CQ for 4 
>>> hours each night without a single reply.  During this contest I 
>>> recall hearing NP4A and Pedro's great set up running full power, and 
>>> very high dipole at 200' and the signals were always the same on 160 
>>> at my location. So either KP4KE has a "magic antenna" or his "QRP" 
>>> entry in the CQ WW 160 meter QRP category totally lacked credulity.
>>>
>>> Herb Schoenbohm, KV4FZ
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 2005     KP4KE     SO QRP 160M     37,345     364/13/42
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 12/17/2015 7:56 AM, Michel Spelier wrote:
>>>> The title was changed to better describe the original question.
>>>> This topband newcomer asked what had happened to the topband 
>>>> conditions, given
>>>> the rare intercontinental Low Power to Low Power CW QSO?s,
>>>> even when riding upon sun propagation enhancements, as noted in 
>>>> this log, during
>>>> the last 6 or 7 winter topband contests.
>>>> (the last 3 years = topband newcomer)
>>>>
>>>> (snip)
>>>>
>>>> 73,
>>>>
>>>> Michel, ON7EH
>>>>
>>>> _________________
>>>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>>
>>> _________________
>>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>
>> _________________
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


From dj7ww at t-online.de  Thu Dec 17 14:42:55 2015
From: dj7ww at t-online.de (Peter Voelpel)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2015 20:42:55 +0100
Subject: Topband: 160m LP to LP DX contacts in 2015
In-Reply-To: <5672BAC5.7090409@vitelcom.net>
References: <200316471.8763.1450353367899.open-xchange@webmail.nmp.proximus.be>
	<5672BAC5.7090409@vitelcom.net>
Message-ID: <FBF12BA0F9064FD99771D042A95A3F72@SHACK>

Strange, I work a couple of stateside stations and more then 50 countries
every year in CQ160m qrp.

73
Peter

-----Original Message-----
From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Herbert
Schoenbohm

I thought I would try and see what 5 watts 
could actually in fact really do on TB. Using a 1/4 wave vertical and 12 
Beverages a few weeks later, and many days after that when the band 
conditions where hot, I called CQ for 4 hours each night without a 
single reply.


From w8ji at w8ji.com  Thu Dec 17 14:52:44 2015
From: w8ji at w8ji.com (Tom W8JI)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2015 14:52:44 -0500
Subject: Topband: SB-1000
References: <474137846.313004.1450378585922.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<474137846.313004.1450378585922.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <F2E7C41DDFCB41F6AC2C919A55B31986@MAIN>

> Thanks to all. I will go over it again today. I initially started out on 
> 160 and then moved on to other bands. On 160 I could not get any increase 
> in grid current, it came up but no increase with plate tuning but may not 
> have applied enough drive. Staying below the 200ma grid and 400ma plate 
> and just shooting for 500-600 watts on all bands right now. I did go over 
> the switch before using the amp and it looked good and also deoxit it. The 
> only thing I changed was 115v to 220. Probably just operator error since 
> it's been a while doing any maxing and dipping:)Jimk2hn
> _________________


A pi-L also tunes a little weird.

In a normal pi, the plate tune hardly moves with load changes. In a pi-L, 
the plate tune and load interact. But either has to be tuned near rated 
power.

Don't bother spraying a band switch that carries several amperes and 
thousands of volts. It never really does good, and it might do bad. Save the 
deoxit for volume controls and things that only have a few volts and a few 
mA current. 


From adkmurray at yahoo.com  Thu Dec 17 14:52:49 2015
From: adkmurray at yahoo.com (Jim Murray)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2015 19:52:49 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Topband: SB-1000
References: <2053920859.336985.1450381969239.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <2053920859.336985.1450381969239.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

Just came off 20M, amp working fine. ?Went to 160 plate and load controls have no control, no output. Plate current climbs high with any added drive (45-50W) and blew both 10amp fuses.Off comes the cover.jimk2hn

From tshoppa at gmail.com  Thu Dec 17 15:08:28 2015
From: tshoppa at gmail.com (Tim Shoppa)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2015 15:08:28 -0500
Subject: Topband: Upcoming 160M contests
Message-ID: <CAJ_qRvb9kDmPDmKRW1gAx1geKBTtFKJjJOhw2PJbzFRY57ok+Q@mail.gmail.com>

0: I already missed the RSGB 1.8MHz contest for 2015. I was hoping to get
at least one valid QSO to improve on my score from last year, but I totally
spaced out and missed the contest. In 2013 or 2014 I remember I got one QSO
with a G, but I busted his serial number so I got zero points.

1: I plan to try, for first time, the Russian 160M contest. It runs from
3PM to 7PM EST tomorrow Fri Dec 18, or 2000Z-2400 UTC. I plan to be on, at
least near the end! I hope some other locals are on too!
http://www.hornucopia.com/contestcal/contestdetails.php?ref=202
http://www.qrz.ru/contest/detail/90.html

2: Stew Perry is the big one for me. This year, night of Saturday Dec 26th
into morning of Sunday Dec 27th. http://kkn.net/stew/

3: NAQCC 160M QRP Sprint. I enjoy the heck out of this one, do it with a
straight key too. Wed Jan 13 0130-0330 UTC, or Thursday night Jan 14
8:30PM-10:30PM for EST. http://naqcc.info/sprint201601_160.html

Tim N3QE

From w8ji at w8ji.com  Thu Dec 17 15:30:17 2015
From: w8ji at w8ji.com (Tom W8JI)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2015 15:30:17 -0500
Subject: Topband: SB-1000
References: <2053920859.336985.1450381969239.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<2053920859.336985.1450381969239.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <E50D756A290340D882D42AF70664DEF6@MAIN>

> Just came off 20M, amp working fine. Went to 160 plate and load controls 
> have no control, no output. Plate current climbs high with any added drive 
> (45-50W) and blew both 10amp fuses.Off comes the cover.jimk2hn
> _________________

It might be something else, but  I would bet the contact on the 160 padding 
capacitor is burned off. This is what the anti-corona washer reduced. Heath 
did not use that washer.

It arcs there when the loading cap is too far closed (too much grid current) 
for the amount of drive on higher bands, or if the antenna should become 
grossly mismatched when at high power on bands other than 160.  The worse 
band for arcing the 160 padding contact is when on 80 meters.




From w4zyt.don at gmail.com  Thu Dec 17 15:44:51 2015
From: w4zyt.don at gmail.com (Don Lynch)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2015 20:44:51 +0000
Subject: Topband: Upcoming 160M contests
In-Reply-To: <CAJ_qRvb9kDmPDmKRW1gAx1geKBTtFKJjJOhw2PJbzFRY57ok+Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJ_qRvb9kDmPDmKRW1gAx1geKBTtFKJjJOhw2PJbzFRY57ok+Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABWcA=yPkG8FfYTr4N6yFDasGBEE5Rjz4kmt-7O+y0VqHNwyCA@mail.gmail.com>

Wait a sec:  For the NAQCC, Wednesday Jan 13 0130-0330 UTC is
*Tuesday* evening,
January 12th, 2030-2230 EST here in North America, or are there two session?

The web site gives the "Wednesday Jan 13 0130-0330 UTC" time frame only.

Am I terribly confused?

Vy 73,

Don W4ZYT



On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 8:08 PM, Tim Shoppa <tshoppa at gmail.com> wrote:

> 0: I already missed the RSGB 1.8MHz contest for 2015. I was hoping to get
> at least one valid QSO to improve on my score from last year, but I totally
> spaced out and missed the contest. In 2013 or 2014 I remember I got one QSO
> with a G, but I busted his serial number so I got zero points.
>
> 1: I plan to try, for first time, the Russian 160M contest. It runs from
> 3PM to 7PM EST tomorrow Fri Dec 18, or 2000Z-2400 UTC. I plan to be on, at
> least near the end! I hope some other locals are on too!
> http://www.hornucopia.com/contestcal/contestdetails.php?ref=202
> http://www.qrz.ru/contest/detail/90.html
>
> 2: Stew Perry is the big one for me. This year, night of Saturday Dec 26th
> into morning of Sunday Dec 27th. http://kkn.net/stew/
>
> 3: NAQCC 160M QRP Sprint. I enjoy the heck out of this one, do it with a
> straight key too. Wed Jan 13 0130-0330 UTC, or Thursday night Jan 14
> 8:30PM-10:30PM for EST. http://naqcc.info/sprint201601_160.html
>
> Tim N3QE
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>



-- 
Don Lynch MD W4ZYT - EI2IM, 5Z4ZK
Virginia Beach, Virginia
ARRL - IRTS - ARSK - Virginia DXCC - PVRC
FOC 1700  -  RNARS 4473  -  FISTS 3381  -  CWOPS 55
w4zyt.don at gmail.com
==
Donald F. Lynch, Jr., MD, FACS
Emeritus Professor of Urology
Eastern Virginia School of Medicine
Norfolk, Virginia, USA

From w4zyt.don at gmail.com  Thu Dec 17 15:49:42 2015
From: w4zyt.don at gmail.com (Don Lynch)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2015 20:49:42 +0000
Subject: Topband: SB-1000
In-Reply-To: <E50D756A290340D882D42AF70664DEF6@MAIN>
References: <2053920859.336985.1450381969239.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<2053920859.336985.1450381969239.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
	<E50D756A290340D882D42AF70664DEF6@MAIN>
Message-ID: <CABWcA=yiudxu+YoDmSkgKox+eraTbsWUun3BvNxcy_YDQcn5Tw@mail.gmail.com>

Also check the contacts on the bandswitch.  I have that amp and have a
similar problem with 160 operation, apparently from burning out one of the
contacts on the switch.  It would be a bear to change out, even if you
could find a replacement, so I just don't run that amp on 160 any more.

Good luck with it.

Vy 73,

Don W4ZYT



On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 8:30 PM, Tom W8JI <w8ji at w8ji.com> wrote:

> Just came off 20M, amp working fine. Went to 160 plate and load controls
>> have no control, no output. Plate current climbs high with any added drive
>> (45-50W) and blew both 10amp fuses.Off comes the cover.jimk2hn
>> _________________
>>
>
> It might be something else, but  I would bet the contact on the 160
> padding capacitor is burned off. This is what the anti-corona washer
> reduced. Heath did not use that washer.
>
> It arcs there when the loading cap is too far closed (too much grid
> current) for the amount of drive on higher bands, or if the antenna should
> become grossly mismatched when at high power on bands other than 160.  The
> worse band for arcing the 160 padding contact is when on 80 meters.
>
>
>
>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>



-- 
Don Lynch MD W4ZYT - EI2IM, 5Z4ZK
Virginia Beach, Virginia
ARRL - IRTS - ARSK - Virginia DXCC - PVRC
FOC 1700  -  RNARS 4473  -  FISTS 3381  -  CWOPS 55
w4zyt.don at gmail.com
==
Donald F. Lynch, Jr., MD, FACS
Emeritus Professor of Urology
Eastern Virginia School of Medicine
Norfolk, Virginia, USA

From tshoppa at gmail.com  Thu Dec 17 15:53:19 2015
From: tshoppa at gmail.com (Tim Shoppa)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2015 15:53:19 -0500
Subject: Topband: Upcoming 160M contests
In-Reply-To: <CABWcA=yPkG8FfYTr4N6yFDasGBEE5Rjz4kmt-7O+y0VqHNwyCA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJ_qRvb9kDmPDmKRW1gAx1geKBTtFKJjJOhw2PJbzFRY57ok+Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABWcA=yPkG8FfYTr4N6yFDasGBEE5Rjz4kmt-7O+y0VqHNwyCA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJ_qRvbnjZRHp0E8-fintPSXeZsLUV6iWrH85z7y_Q7vYNHOJg@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you Don, for correcting my date on the NAQCC 160M QRP Sprint! Night
of Tuesday Jan 12 works a lot better!

Tim N3QE

On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 3:44 PM, Don Lynch <w4zyt.don at gmail.com> wrote:

> Wait a sec:  For the NAQCC, Wednesday Jan 13 0130-0330 UTC is *Tuesday* evening,
> January 12th, 2030-2230 EST here in North America, or are there two session?
>
> The web site gives the "Wednesday Jan 13 0130-0330 UTC" time frame only.
>
> Am I terribly confused?
>
> Vy 73,
>
> Don W4ZYT
>
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 8:08 PM, Tim Shoppa <tshoppa at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> 0: I already missed the RSGB 1.8MHz contest for 2015. I was hoping to get
>> at least one valid QSO to improve on my score from last year, but I
>> totally
>> spaced out and missed the contest. In 2013 or 2014 I remember I got one
>> QSO
>> with a G, but I busted his serial number so I got zero points.
>>
>> 1: I plan to try, for first time, the Russian 160M contest. It runs from
>> 3PM to 7PM EST tomorrow Fri Dec 18, or 2000Z-2400 UTC. I plan to be on, at
>> least near the end! I hope some other locals are on too!
>> http://www.hornucopia.com/contestcal/contestdetails.php?ref=202
>> http://www.qrz.ru/contest/detail/90.html
>>
>> 2: Stew Perry is the big one for me. This year, night of Saturday Dec 26th
>> into morning of Sunday Dec 27th. http://kkn.net/stew/
>>
>> 3: NAQCC 160M QRP Sprint. I enjoy the heck out of this one, do it with a
>> straight key too. Wed Jan 13 0130-0330 UTC, or Thursday night Jan 14
>> 8:30PM-10:30PM for EST. http://naqcc.info/sprint201601_160.html
>>
>> Tim N3QE
>> _________________
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Don Lynch MD W4ZYT - EI2IM, 5Z4ZK
> Virginia Beach, Virginia
> ARRL - IRTS - ARSK - Virginia DXCC - PVRC
> FOC 1700  -  RNARS 4473  -  FISTS 3381  -  CWOPS 55
> w4zyt.don at gmail.com
> ==
> Donald F. Lynch, Jr., MD, FACS
> Emeritus Professor of Urology
> Eastern Virginia School of Medicine
> Norfolk, Virginia, USA
>

From gudguyham at aol.com  Thu Dec 17 17:22:50 2015
From: gudguyham at aol.com (Louis Parascondola)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2015 17:22:50 -0500
Subject: Topband: 160m WAS
Message-ID: <151b209e1c4-1e7a-17ec8@webprd-a21.mail.aol.com>

I joined this reflector not quite a week ago.  I am new to 160 meters though I have been a ham since 1967.  As I stated before here I was in the 160 meter contest looking to work all states.  I got pretty close by working 45 of them.  Of course I do need Alaska and Hawaii but stateside I need Utah, Nebraska, and Wyoming.  If I am off base with this kindly tell me so, but here goes.  If anyone out there is in any of these states and would like to give me a QSO on CW I would surely appreciate it very much.  Naturally it would have to take place when we are both in darkness hours so I am available any evening you might be able to try for a QSO.  You can email me direct at gudguyham at aol.com  if you can try for a QSO with me.   TIA, Lou

From mort.g2jl at ntlworld.com  Thu Dec 17 17:55:52 2015
From: mort.g2jl at ntlworld.com (Mort)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2015 22:55:52 -0000
Subject: Topband: 160m WAS
References: <151b209e1c4-1e7a-17ec8@webprd-a21.mail.aol.com>
Message-ID: <0320DBCDA7E848C3AFFBE5B03A811F68@experimental>

And U did it without a call-sign ?


73  -  Mort,  G2JL

From mikewate at gmail.com  Thu Dec 17 18:38:36 2015
From: mikewate at gmail.com (Mike Waters)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2015 17:38:36 -0600
Subject: Topband: 160m WAS
In-Reply-To: <0320DBCDA7E848C3AFFBE5B03A811F68@experimental>
References: <151b209e1c4-1e7a-17ec8@webprd-a21.mail.aol.com>
	<0320DBCDA7E848C3AFFBE5B03A811F68@experimental>
Message-ID: <CA+FxYXg_vemMo9ijxm_H7SfP4yK8_yXuoB--OYn7cOdn7RQeEA@mail.gmail.com>

I think he might have used W1QJ. :-)

Lou, during the Stew Perry contest --the best 160m contest of the year--
it's likely that you can work those states. (Of course, that depends on
your antennas, etc.)
www.hornucopia.com/contestcal/weeklycont.php?mode=custom&week=next#6055
www.kkn.net/stew/

One year during the Stew Perry, with only 100 watts, I worked almost all 50
states with my inverted-L (www.w0btu.com/160_meters.html). I even broke a
big pileup then --on the first try-- working a station near South America.
After that, I began to understand why some people love QRP. :-)

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com

On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 4:55 PM, Mort <mort.g2jl at ntlworld.com> wrote:

> And U did it without a call-sign ?
>

From k1fz at myfairpoint.net  Thu Dec 17 18:43:32 2015
From: k1fz at myfairpoint.net (=?utf-8?b?SzFGWi1CcnVjZQ==?=)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2015 18:43:32 -0500
Subject: Topband: 160m WAS
In-Reply-To: <0320DBCDA7E848C3AFFBE5B03A811F68@experimental>
References: <151b209e1c4-1e7a-17ec8@webprd-a21.mail.aol.com>
	<0320DBCDA7E848C3AFFBE5B03A811F68@experimental>
Message-ID: <20151217184332.bp497le4xwc440o8@webmail.myfairpoint.net>

?
?
Thanks Mort,
?
They now say See something, say something. ? Anyone got real callsign ?
?
Name does not work on QRZ
?
?

On Thu, 17 Dec 2015 22:55:52 -0000, Mort  wrote:

       And U did it without a call-sign ?

73 - Mort, G2JL
_________________
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband



From mikewate at gmail.com  Thu Dec 17 19:37:05 2015
From: mikewate at gmail.com (Mike Waters)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2015 18:37:05 -0600
Subject: Topband: 160m WAS
In-Reply-To: <20151217184332.bp497le4xwc440o8@webmail.myfairpoint.net>
References: <151b209e1c4-1e7a-17ec8@webprd-a21.mail.aol.com>
	<0320DBCDA7E848C3AFFBE5B03A811F68@experimental>
	<20151217184332.bp497le4xwc440o8@webmail.myfairpoint.net>
Message-ID: <CA+FxYXjUyftKzU6qNEx+faxMSw468nip1kbEbkMnTiQu1fxRdQ@mail.gmail.com>

Take it easy on Lou. He's W1QJ, and is a good guy. See
https://www.qrz.com/lookup/w1qj

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com

On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 5:43 PM, K1FZ-Bruce <k1fz at myfairpoint.net> wrote:

>
>
> Thanks Mort,
>
> They now say See something, say something.   Anyone got real callsign ?
>
> Name does not work on QRZ
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, 17 Dec 2015 22:55:52 -0000, Mort  wrote:
>
>       And U did it without a call-sign ?
>
> 73 - Mort, G2JL
>

From herbert.schoenbohm at gmail.com  Thu Dec 17 19:39:17 2015
From: herbert.schoenbohm at gmail.com (Herbert Schoenbohm)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2015 20:39:17 -0400
Subject: Topband: RUSSIAN 160 METER CONTES
In-Reply-To: <1450380813665.1204571671@boxbe>
References: <1450380813665.1204571671@boxbe>
Message-ID: <567355B5.2010806@gmail.com>

Vladimir........Why not at least hold at least a small portion of the 
contest when it is not still daylight in the U.S.?


Herb, KV4FZ

On 12/17/2015 3:15 PM, r7lv wrote:
> Boxbe <https://www.boxbe.com/overview> This message is eligible for 
> Automatic Cleanup! (r7lv at dx.ru) Add cleanup rule 
> <https://www.boxbe.com/popup?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.boxbe.com%2Fcleanup%3Ftoken%3DQab%252B%252Bv5vY2G%252FyBB02nSyUFmwMf4aTRl%252F6g1vqDmCwnWXSeJNz25OXDIIRbsmgSZ9CIxfPJ6kqpnj%252FovEloqe5qNb1DHWevi9KTyuB4d2VGqtuYApcivEu%252Fm2L8rO46wv%26key%3DkMJyc7KImn4P0IvSsrvCHFi8p5FK4PgzcZ5vL8uYKYw%253D&tc_serial=23687914655&tc_rand=247847022&utm_source=stf&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=ANNO_CLEANUP_ADD&utm_content=001> 
> | More info 
> <http://blog.boxbe.com/general/boxbe-automatic-cleanup?tc_serial=23687914655&tc_rand=247847022&utm_source=stf&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=ANNO_CLEANUP_ADD&utm_content=001> 
>
>
>
>    Sorry for mistake :
>
>
> RUSSIAN 160 METER CONTEST will be held from 20.00 to 24.00 UTC, on the
> 18th December 2015
>
>
> 73! Vlad


From mikewate at gmail.com  Thu Dec 17 19:43:43 2015
From: mikewate at gmail.com (Mike Waters)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2015 18:43:43 -0600
Subject: Topband: RUSSIAN 160 METER CONTES
In-Reply-To: <567355B5.2010806@gmail.com>
References: <1450380813665.1204571671@boxbe> <567355B5.2010806@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+FxYXj84QvZVH2vdG=pz+dXEnkGHE3-ohqitGzs+rZKU6PEJw@mail.gmail.com>

That question gets asked every year. :-)

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com

On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 6:39 PM, Herbert Schoenbohm <
herbert.schoenbohm at gmail.com> wrote:

> Vladimir........Why not at least hold at least a small portion of the
> contest when it is not still daylight in the U.S.?
>

From k1fz at myfairpoint.net  Thu Dec 17 19:47:31 2015
From: k1fz at myfairpoint.net (=?utf-8?b?SzFGWi1CcnVjZQ==?=)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2015 19:47:31 -0500
Subject: Topband:  160m WAS
In-Reply-To: <CA+FxYXjUyftKzU6qNEx+faxMSw468nip1kbEbkMnTiQu1fxRdQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <151b209e1c4-1e7a-17ec8@webprd-a21.mail.aol.com>
	<0320DBCDA7E848C3AFFBE5B03A811F68@experimental>
	<20151217184332.bp497le4xwc440o8@webmail.myfairpoint.net>
	<CA+FxYXjUyftKzU6qNEx+faxMSw468nip1kbEbkMnTiQu1fxRdQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20151217194731.j2yatfbs8ogsksco@webmail.myfairpoint.net>

?
A callsign would have prevented any concern. 
?
They always say, after a problem, some one should have said something. 
?
Bruce-k1fz
?
?

On Thu, 17 Dec 2015 18:37:05 -0600, Mike Waters  wrote:

       Take it easy on Lou. He's W1QJ, and is a good guy. See 
https://www.qrz.com/lookup/w1qj
73, Mikewww.w0btu.com

On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 5:43 PM, K1FZ-Bruce  wrote:

       ?
?
Thanks Mort,
?
They now say See something, say something. ? Anyone got real callsign ?
?
Name does not work onQRZ
?
?

On Thu, 17 Dec 2015 22:55:52 -0000, Mort? wrote:

? ? ? And U did it without a call-sign ?

73 - Mort, G2JL



From w5jmw at towerfarm.net  Thu Dec 17 19:49:03 2015
From: w5jmw at towerfarm.net (w5jmw at towerfarm.net)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2015 18:49:03 -0600
Subject: Topband: rohn insulators
Message-ID: <2606d992a302a8b563f0c54057701e3e@towerfarm.net>

ok,the station wanting the insulators for a rohn 25.there is a set 
available from ab5k.he is listing them on e-bay set of 3.look for dxer49 
on e-bay.I believe they are new..73 john

From r_bakalov at yahoo.com  Thu Dec 17 19:59:07 2015
From: r_bakalov at yahoo.com (Rudy Bakalov)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2015 19:59:07 -0500
Subject: Topband: 160m WAS
In-Reply-To: <20151217194731.j2yatfbs8ogsksco@webmail.myfairpoint.net>
References: <151b209e1c4-1e7a-17ec8@webprd-a21.mail.aol.com>
	<0320DBCDA7E848C3AFFBE5B03A811F68@experimental>
	<20151217184332.bp497le4xwc440o8@webmail.myfairpoint.net>
	<CA+FxYXjUyftKzU6qNEx+faxMSw468nip1kbEbkMnTiQu1fxRdQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<20151217194731.j2yatfbs8ogsksco@webmail.myfairpoint.net>
Message-ID: <99FF43CE-CFF2-4841-979D-BC71A0F47965@yahoo.com>

A concern? You are being concerned about someone asking for QSOs to complete his 160 WAS? Wow

Sent using a tiny keyboard.  Please excuse brevity, typos, or inappropriate autocorrect.


> On Dec 17, 2015, at 7:47 PM, K1FZ-Bruce <k1fz at myfairpoint.net> wrote:
> 
>  
> A callsign would have prevented any concern.  
> They always say, after a problem, some one should have said something.  
> Bruce-k1fz
>  
>  
> 
> On Thu, 17 Dec 2015 18:37:05 -0600, Mike Waters  wrote:
> 
>      Take it easy on Lou. He's W1QJ, and is a good guy. See https://www.qrz.com/lookup/w1qj
> 73, Mikewww.w0btu.com
> 
> On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 5:43 PM, K1FZ-Bruce  wrote:
> 
>       
>  
> Thanks Mort,
>  
> They now say See something, say something.   Anyone got real callsign ?
>  
> Name does not work onQRZ
>  
>  
> 
> On Thu, 17 Dec 2015 22:55:52 -0000, Mort  wrote:
> 
>       And U did it without a call-sign ?
> 
> 73 - Mort, G2JL
> 
> 
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

From k6uj at pacbell.net  Thu Dec 17 20:11:35 2015
From: k6uj at pacbell.net (Robert Harmon)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2015 17:11:35 -0800
Subject: Topband: RUSSIAN 160 METER CONTES
In-Reply-To: <CA+FxYXj84QvZVH2vdG=pz+dXEnkGHE3-ohqitGzs+rZKU6PEJw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1450380813665.1204571671@boxbe> <567355B5.2010806@gmail.com>
	<CA+FxYXj84QvZVH2vdG=pz+dXEnkGHE3-ohqitGzs+rZKU6PEJw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56735D47.6090601@pacbell.net>

Yes it does, and I'm sure Herb knows it too.  :-)
It's his engineering nature to "fix" things.

Bob
K6UJ




On 12/17/15 4:43 PM, Mike Waters wrote:
> That question gets asked every year. :-)
>
> 73, Mike
> www.w0btu.com
>
> On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 6:39 PM, Herbert Schoenbohm <
> herbert.schoenbohm at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Vladimir........Why not at least hold at least a small portion of the
>> contest when it is not still daylight in the U.S.?
>>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>


From k6uj at pacbell.net  Thu Dec 17 21:06:34 2015
From: k6uj at pacbell.net (Robert Harmon)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2015 18:06:34 -0800
Subject: Topband: 160M ant advice
Message-ID: <56736A2A.2070300@pacbell.net>

I am planning an install of a 160M inverted L  and would like critique 
from you top banders.
I was originally planning a separate tower for 160 but my XYL has 
squashed the idea  :-)
My tower is 90 feet fully extended with a 18 foot mast currently used 
for a Force 12 WARC plus 10/15 beam
on top and a N6BT DXU-32, 2EL 40 and 3EL 20  12 feet below.
At the top of the top section I have a 10 foot fiberglass pole I plan to 
extend out to support the vertical, so it will be 10 feet away from the 
tower.
I am thinking of feeding the vertical and having 4 elevated radials at 
the 14 foot level.
So the vertical wire will about 76 feet long.

I am wondering if I would be better lowering the feedpoint & radial tie 
ins down from 14 feet say to 8 feet and have more length in the vertical 
portion of the L or better to have the 14 feet elevation for the radials ?

Also the horizontal leg of the L on top will be about 5 feet below the 
40/20 yagi only 10 feet out from the tower,
do you think this is OK as far as interaction between the yagi and the 
160 L ?  Anything else I should consider ?
I have never had a decent 160 antenna, just hoping I can work something 
out with my existing situation

thanks in advance,

Bob
K6UJ


From j_fitton at yahoo.com  Thu Dec 17 21:14:19 2015
From: j_fitton at yahoo.com (Jim F.)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2015 02:14:19 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Topband: 160m LP to LP DX contacts in 2015
In-Reply-To: <FBF12BA0F9064FD99771D042A95A3F72@SHACK>
References: <200316471.8763.1450353367899.open-xchange@webmail.nmp.proximus.be>
	<5672BAC5.7090409@vitelcom.net>
	<FBF12BA0F9064FD99771D042A95A3F72@SHACK>
Message-ID: <1675374031.450332.1450404859203.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

Getting no reply calling CQ using QRP is fairly common
but tail ending, search and pounce, and careful timinggreatly increase the chances for success.
 
73,


Jim / W1FMR

 

      From: Peter Voelpel <dj7ww at t-online.de>
 To: 'Herbert Schoenbohm' <herbs at vitelcom.net> 
Cc: topband at contesting.com
 Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2015 2:42 PM
 Subject: Re: Topband: 160m LP to LP DX contacts in 2015
   
Strange, I work a couple of stateside stations and more then 50 countries
every year in CQ160m qrp.

73
Peter

-----Original Message-----
From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Herbert
Schoenbohm

I thought I would try and see what 5 watts 
could actually in fact really do on TB. Using a 1/4 wave vertical and 12 
Beverages a few weeks later, and many days after that when the band 
conditions where hot, I called CQ for 4 hours each night without a 
single reply.

_________________
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


   

From n1rj at roadrunner.com  Thu Dec 17 21:24:36 2015
From: n1rj at roadrunner.com (Roger D Johnson)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2015 21:24:36 -0500
Subject: Topband: rohn insulators
In-Reply-To: <2606d992a302a8b563f0c54057701e3e@towerfarm.net>
References: <2606d992a302a8b563f0c54057701e3e@towerfarm.net>
Message-ID: <56736E64.6040902@roadrunner.com>

I believe there is a slight misrepresentation here. I've never seen these in any 
Rohn catalog. Rather than
calling them Rohn 25 tower insulators, I think they are better described as 
insulators for Rohn 25 tower.

73, Roger


On 12/17/2015 7:49 PM, w5jmw at towerfarm.net wrote:
> ok,the station wanting the insulators for a rohn 25.there is a set available 
> from ab5k.he is listing them on e-bay set of 3.look for dxer49 on e-bay.I 
> believe they are new..73 john
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>

From yc0low at gmail.com  Thu Dec 17 22:09:58 2015
From: yc0low at gmail.com (Jo, YC0LOW)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2015 10:09:58 +0700
Subject: Topband: Change of address
Message-ID: <CAMy0PT=F7SK6QNJf34LJdm-qDNbfpmTuinj_QHoio+RQJAV1ow@mail.gmail.com>

Dear fellow Topbanders, this is to let you all know that there's been
change of my address since I closed the service of my PO Box 147,
Cinere16514, Indonesia (as written in the QRZ.com) recently.

I have ceased DX operations on TB since 2013 due to my illness, then. But,
still eager to reply incoming direct QSL cards for the legit QSO - only
mailed to my home address:

Jl.Puncak Pesanggrahan II/4
Cinere 16514
Indonesia

Via YB Buro is okay but the reply would take additional time since my
limited mobility to go there to collect&reply. So please be more patient.

Season's greetings. Good luck on TB.

Tnx es 73 de Jo,YC0LOW

From k9fd at flex.com  Thu Dec 17 23:43:33 2015
From: k9fd at flex.com (Merv Schweigert)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2015 18:43:33 -1000
Subject: Topband: rohn insulators
In-Reply-To: <56736E64.6040902@roadrunner.com>
References: <2606d992a302a8b563f0c54057701e3e@towerfarm.net>
	<56736E64.6040902@roadrunner.com>
Message-ID: <56738EF5.7050607@flex.com>

20 mins work with a 5.00 fibre glass rod spun in a lathe,
sort of grossly overpriced exaggeration of a Rohn insulator.

> I believe there is a slight misrepresentation here. I've never seen 
> these in any Rohn catalog. Rather than
> calling them Rohn 25 tower insulators, I think they are better 
> described as insulators for Rohn 25 tower.
>
> 73, Roger
>
>
> On 12/17/2015 7:49 PM, w5jmw at towerfarm.net wrote:
>> ok,the station wanting the insulators for a rohn 25.there is a set 
>> available from ab5k.he is listing them on e-bay set of 3.look for 
>> dxer49 on e-bay.I believe they are new..73 john
>> _________________
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>


From wa5rtg at gmail.com  Fri Dec 18 04:36:18 2015
From: wa5rtg at gmail.com (Stan Stockton)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2015 03:36:18 -0600
Subject: Topband: 160M ant advice
In-Reply-To: <56736A2A.2070300@pacbell.net>
References: <56736A2A.2070300@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <7BBCC683-5584-4341-93C5-9B5D29A4172D@gmail.com>

Bob,

There is no reason I can think of to not shunt feed the tower as it is with either ground radials or elevated radials.  An inverted L isn't as good as a vertical for DX and you would just be adding clutter and horizontal wires in proximity to your other antennas.  Shunt feeding a tower is very, very simple.

73... Stan, K5GO

> On Dec 17, 2015, at 8:06 PM, Robert Harmon <k6uj at pacbell.net> wrote:
> 
> I am planning an install of a 160M inverted L  and would like critique from you top banders.
> I was originally planning a separate tower for 160 but my XYL has squashed the idea  :-)
> My tower is 90 feet fully extended with a 18 foot mast currently used for a Force 12 WARC plus 10/15 beam
> on top and a N6BT DXU-32, 2EL 40 and 3EL 20  12 feet below.
> At the top of the top section I have a 10 foot fiberglass pole I plan to extend out to support the vertical, so it will be 10 feet away from the tower.
> I am thinking of feeding the vertical and having 4 elevated radials at the 14 foot level.
> So the vertical wire will about 76 feet long.
> 
> I am wondering if I would be better lowering the feedpoint & radial tie ins down from 14 feet say to 8 feet and have more length in the vertical portion of the L or better to have the 14 feet elevation for the radials ?
> 
> Also the horizontal leg of the L on top will be about 5 feet below the 40/20 yagi only 10 feet out from the tower,
> do you think this is OK as far as interaction between the yagi and the 160 L ?  Anything else I should consider ?
> I have never had a decent 160 antenna, just hoping I can work something out with my existing situation
> 
> thanks in advance,
> 
> Bob
> K6UJ
> 
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

From ra0ff at mail.ru  Fri Dec 18 05:02:27 2015
From: ra0ff at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?RXVnZW5lIFBvcG92IC9SQTBGRi8=?=)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2015 13:02:27 +0300
Subject: Topband: =?utf-8?q?RUSSIAN_160_METER_CONTES?=
In-Reply-To: <CA+FxYXj84QvZVH2vdG=pz+dXEnkGHE3-ohqitGzs+rZKU6PEJw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1450380813665.1204571671@boxbe> <567355B5.2010806@gmail.com>
	<CA+FxYXj84QvZVH2vdG=pz+dXEnkGHE3-ohqitGzs+rZKU6PEJw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1450432947.629525944@f400.i.mail.ru>

 Yes, Mike, yes , like my every year question about the Asian part of Russia in this test .
Not Siberia , namely the Russian Far East .
For 160m UA9 and UA0 is quite different countries , the difference is quite substantial 4,000 kilometers .
UA0 do not need this test , unfortunately...


73! de Eugene RA0FF
http://www.qsl.net/ra0ff/

>???????, 17 ??????? 2015, 18:43 -06:00 ?? Mike Waters <mikewate at gmail.com>:
>
>That question gets asked every year. :-)
>
>73, Mike
>www.w0btu.com
>
>On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 6:39 PM, Herbert Schoenbohm <
>herbert.schoenbohm at gmail.com > wrote:
>
>> Vladimir........Why not at least hold at least a small portion of the
>> contest when it is not still daylight in the U.S.?
>>
>_________________
>Topband Reflector Archives -  http://www.contesting.com/_topband


From wa5rtg at gmail.com  Fri Dec 18 05:59:23 2015
From: wa5rtg at gmail.com (Stan Stockton)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2015 04:59:23 -0600
Subject: Topband: rohn insulators
In-Reply-To: <56738EF5.7050607@flex.com>
References: <2606d992a302a8b563f0c54057701e3e@towerfarm.net>
	<56736E64.6040902@roadrunner.com> <56738EF5.7050607@flex.com>
Message-ID: <CACdYvGFzK5ogkSV5wTB8G9LN_p7gWYov4g6kTE_fMdLAHs8bHw@mail.gmail.com>

Those look identical to the ones I made for my 8m 4 Square Towers.
Use G10, not just any fiberglass.  The G10 rod is more like $20.00 per
foot retail, unless you do a little searching.  The one thing I would
do differently is add a washer over the machined ends of the
fiberglass insulators to put a flat against the unturned portion of
the insulator instead of the sharp edges from the ends of the tower
legs.  Those sharp edges can splinter the fiberglass.  Also if you
span the joint with flat G10 material (maybe 4 inches wide by 18
inches long by 3/8 inches thick) it will at least reduce if not
eliminate the lateral movement.

I have Fiberglas rod guying them now but for many years had four 70
foot towers unguyed with this setup at the base.

It is interesting that a lot of hams are let's say "thrifty" but when
it comes to having something made or making it themselves to save
hundreds or even thousands of dollars, many will pay whatever it takes
to buy the end product.

http://k5go.com/40-meters/

73...Stan, K5GO





> On Dec 17, 2015, at 10:43 PM, Merv Schweigert <k9fd at flex.com> wrote:
>
> 20 mins work with a 5.00 fibre glass rod spun in a lathe,
> sort of grossly overpriced exaggeration of a Rohn insulator.
>
>> I believe there is a slight misrepresentation here. I've never seen these in any Rohn catalog. Rather than
>> calling them Rohn 25 tower insulators, I think they are better described as insulators for Rohn 25 tower.
>>
>> 73, Roger
>>
>>
>>> On 12/17/2015 7:49 PM, w5jmw at towerfarm.net wrote:
>>> ok,the station wanting the insulators for a rohn 25.there is a set available from ab5k.he is listing them on e-bay set of 3.look for dxer49 on e-bay.I believe they are new..73 john
>>> _________________
>>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>> _________________
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

From lloydberg at charter.net  Fri Dec 18 08:44:39 2015
From: lloydberg at charter.net (Lloyd - N9LB)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2015 07:44:39 -0600
Subject: Topband: rohn insulators
In-Reply-To: <CACdYvGFzK5ogkSV5wTB8G9LN_p7gWYov4g6kTE_fMdLAHs8bHw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2606d992a302a8b563f0c54057701e3e@towerfarm.net>	<56736E64.6040902@roadrunner.com>
	<56738EF5.7050607@flex.com>
	<CACdYvGFzK5ogkSV5wTB8G9LN_p7gWYov4g6kTE_fMdLAHs8bHw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000001d1399a$3dd91a00$b98b4e00$@charter.net>

Nice web site, Stan!

One of the pix says you paint your antennas with "icephobic paint".  Are you
kidding or is there paint that is less likely to build up ice?  Can you give
us details about that?

73

Lloyd - N9LB

-----Original Message-----
From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Stan
Stockton
Sent: Friday, December 18, 2015 4:59 AM
To: Merv Schweigert <k9fd at flex.com>
Cc: topband at contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: rohn insulators

Those look identical to the ones I made for my 8m 4 Square Towers.
Use G10, not just any fiberglass.  The G10 rod is more like $20.00 per foot
retail, unless you do a little searching.  The one thing I would do
differently is add a washer over the machined ends of the fiberglass
insulators to put a flat against the unturned portion of the insulator
instead of the sharp edges from the ends of the tower legs.  Those sharp
edges can splinter the fiberglass.  Also if you span the joint with flat G10
material (maybe 4 inches wide by 18 inches long by 3/8 inches thick) it will
at least reduce if not eliminate the lateral movement.

I have Fiberglas rod guying them now but for many years had four 70 foot
towers unguyed with this setup at the base.

It is interesting that a lot of hams are let's say "thrifty" but when it
comes to having something made or making it themselves to save hundreds or
even thousands of dollars, many will pay whatever it takes to buy the end
product.

http://k5go.com/40-meters/

73...Stan, K5GO





> On Dec 17, 2015, at 10:43 PM, Merv Schweigert <k9fd at flex.com> wrote:
>
> 20 mins work with a 5.00 fibre glass rod spun in a lathe, sort of 
> grossly overpriced exaggeration of a Rohn insulator.
>
>> I believe there is a slight misrepresentation here. I've never seen 
>> these in any Rohn catalog. Rather than calling them Rohn 25 tower
insulators, I think they are better described as insulators for Rohn 25
tower.
>>
>> 73, Roger
>>
>>
>>> On 12/17/2015 7:49 PM, w5jmw at towerfarm.net wrote:
>>> ok,the station wanting the insulators for a rohn 25.there is a set 
>>> available from ab5k.he is listing them on e-bay set of 3.look for 
>>> dxer49 on e-bay.I believe they are new..73 john _________________ 
>>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>> _________________
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
_________________
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


From tshoppa at gmail.com  Fri Dec 18 08:57:18 2015
From: tshoppa at gmail.com (Tim Shoppa)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2015 08:57:18 -0500
Subject: Topband: G10, GPO3 was Re:  rohn insulators
Message-ID: <CAJ_qRvaPAegk9vBAZTmZRoC+7omp4pjurtnE7AHzKeSbSS2UaQ@mail.gmail.com>

I notice that the G10 insulators I have made (wire insulators, turned or
cut on my crude home tools... I don't have a tower!) start out "G10 green"
but then turn brown after a few years in the weather. I suspect this is UV
although I cannot rule out cut fiber ends absorbing something (moisture?)
and then turning brown. It seems somewhat worse at the rough cuts I have
made than on the "shiny from factory" surfaces although both turn brown.
This browning never happens in indoor G10 applications.

Is this entirely cosmetic?

I really like G10 as a material in the workshop because it combines
toughness with being easy to work (especially the ability to punch holes in
thin sheets.)

I have also been using the red GPO3 Electrical Fiberglass in indoor HV
applications, it is a very nice material but wears the heck out of saws or
drills that are not carbide. I might try some outside.

Tim N3QE

On Fri, Dec 18, 2015 at 5:59 AM, Stan Stockton <wa5rtg at gmail.com> wrote:

> Those look identical to the ones I made for my 8m 4 Square Towers.
> Use G10, not just any fiberglass.  The G10 rod is more like $20.00 per
> foot retail, unless you do a little searching.  The one thing I would
> do differently is add a washer over the machined ends of the
> fiberglass insulators to put a flat against the unturned portion of
> the insulator instead of the sharp edges from the ends of the tower
> legs.  Those sharp edges can splinter the fiberglass.  Also if you
> span the joint with flat G10 material (maybe 4 inches wide by 18
> inches long by 3/8 inches thick) it will at least reduce if not
> eliminate the lateral movement.
>
> I have Fiberglas rod guying them now but for many years had four 70
> foot towers unguyed with this setup at the base.
>
> It is interesting that a lot of hams are let's say "thrifty" but when
> it comes to having something made or making it themselves to save
> hundreds or even thousands of dollars, many will pay whatever it takes
> to buy the end product.
>
> http://k5go.com/40-meters/
>
> 73...Stan, K5GO
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Dec 17, 2015, at 10:43 PM, Merv Schweigert <k9fd at flex.com> wrote:
> >
> > 20 mins work with a 5.00 fibre glass rod spun in a lathe,
> > sort of grossly overpriced exaggeration of a Rohn insulator.
> >
> >> I believe there is a slight misrepresentation here. I've never seen
> these in any Rohn catalog. Rather than
> >> calling them Rohn 25 tower insulators, I think they are better
> described as insulators for Rohn 25 tower.
> >>
> >> 73, Roger
> >>
> >>
> >>> On 12/17/2015 7:49 PM, w5jmw at towerfarm.net wrote:
> >>> ok,the station wanting the insulators for a rohn 25.there is a set
> available from ab5k.he is listing them on e-bay set of 3.look for dxer49 on
> e-bay.I believe they are new..73 john
> >>> _________________
> >>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> >> _________________
> >> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> >
> > _________________
> > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>

From n4ua.va at gmail.com  Fri Dec 18 09:08:07 2015
From: n4ua.va at gmail.com (George Dubovsky)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2015 09:08:07 -0500
Subject: Topband: G10, GPO3 was Re: rohn insulators
In-Reply-To: <CAJ_qRvaPAegk9vBAZTmZRoC+7omp4pjurtnE7AHzKeSbSS2UaQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJ_qRvaPAegk9vBAZTmZRoC+7omp4pjurtnE7AHzKeSbSS2UaQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAALHBrbOSxyiFeE=GZsnp=0+Z1njN992_W=E2OGdafACdcG51Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Dec 18, 2015 at 8:57 AM, Tim Shoppa <tshoppa at gmail.com> wrote:

> I notice that the G10 insulators I have made (wire insulators, turned or
> cut on my crude home tools... I don't have a tower!) start out "G10 green"
> but then turn brown after a few years in the weather. I suspect this is UV
> although I cannot rule out cut fiber ends absorbing something (moisture?)
> and then turning brown. It seems somewhat worse at the rough cuts I have
> made than on the "shiny from factory" surfaces although both turn brown.
> This browning never happens in indoor G10 applications.
>

?It's UV degradation.?


>
> Is this entirely cosmetic?
>

?It's structural damage. The next step is for the binder to disappear from
the surface, leaving the fiber strands to stand out like a rough pair of
wool socks. A coat of just about any exterior paint will protect the
material. I use Rustoleum and I have some fiberglass insulators in service
for over 10 years with no apparent degradation.

73,

geo - n4ua


> I really like G10 as a material in the workshop because it combines
> toughness with being easy to work (especially the ability to punch holes in
> thin sheets.)
>
> I have also been using the red GPO3 Electrical Fiberglass in indoor HV
> applications, it is a very nice material but wears the heck out of saws or
> drills that are not carbide. I might try some outside.
>
> Tim N3QE
>
> On Fri, Dec 18, 2015 at 5:59 AM, Stan Stockton <wa5rtg at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Those look identical to the ones I made for my 8m 4 Square Towers.
> > Use G10, not just any fiberglass.  The G10 rod is more like $20.00 per
> > foot retail, unless you do a little searching.  The one thing I would
> > do differently is add a washer over the machined ends of the
> > fiberglass insulators to put a flat against the unturned portion of
> > the insulator instead of the sharp edges from the ends of the tower
> > legs.  Those sharp edges can splinter the fiberglass.  Also if you
> > span the joint with flat G10 material (maybe 4 inches wide by 18
> > inches long by 3/8 inches thick) it will at least reduce if not
> > eliminate the lateral movement.
> >
> > I have Fiberglas rod guying them now but for many years had four 70
> > foot towers unguyed with this setup at the base.
> >
> > It is interesting that a lot of hams are let's say "thrifty" but when
> > it comes to having something made or making it themselves to save
> > hundreds or even thousands of dollars, many will pay whatever it takes
> > to buy the end product.
> >
> > http://k5go.com/40-meters/
> >
> > 73...Stan, K5GO
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > On Dec 17, 2015, at 10:43 PM, Merv Schweigert <k9fd at flex.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > 20 mins work with a 5.00 fibre glass rod spun in a lathe,
> > > sort of grossly overpriced exaggeration of a Rohn insulator.
> > >
> > >> I believe there is a slight misrepresentation here. I've never seen
> > these in any Rohn catalog. Rather than
> > >> calling them Rohn 25 tower insulators, I think they are better
> > described as insulators for Rohn 25 tower.
> > >>
> > >> 73, Roger
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>> On 12/17/2015 7:49 PM, w5jmw at towerfarm.net wrote:
> > >>> ok,the station wanting the insulators for a rohn 25.there is a set
> > available from ab5k.he is listing them on e-bay set of 3.look for dxer49
> on
> > e-bay.I believe they are new..73 john
> > >>> _________________
> > >>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> > >> _________________
> > >> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> > >
> > > _________________
> > > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> > _________________
> > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> >
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>

From wa5rtg at gmail.com  Fri Dec 18 09:40:43 2015
From: wa5rtg at gmail.com (Stan Stockton)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2015 08:40:43 -0600
Subject: Topband: rohn insulators
In-Reply-To: <000001d1399a$3dd91a00$b98b4e00$@charter.net>
References: <2606d992a302a8b563f0c54057701e3e@towerfarm.net>
	<56736E64.6040902@roadrunner.com> <56738EF5.7050607@flex.com>
	<CACdYvGFzK5ogkSV5wTB8G9LN_p7gWYov4g6kTE_fMdLAHs8bHw@mail.gmail.com>
	<000001d1399a$3dd91a00$b98b4e00$@charter.net>
Message-ID: <A23B9C2E-B179-4F7C-B1D1-CE1498C82E3A@gmail.com>

Wearlon Super F-1 Icephoebic paint.  If you look at that website somewhere you will see a picture of a tape measure showing 2-1/8 inches of radial ice that I had on everything.  Despite antennas that were built for a lot of ice and elements rated at 130-150 mph wind, I had a few failures with that much ice.  I think I had two 20m elements break that were over five inches in diameter (yikes) with the full load of ice.   All the 40m elements broke and two booms broke.  Granted we have never seen another ice storm like that since.  Not sure "how" effective the paint is after a decade, but no question it is effective.  After it is applied it is slick, like silicone.  You can put water on it and it beads up like something that has Rain X.

The last time I used it, I rolled it on instead of spraying.  No overspray and it's expensive.

73...Stan, K5GO

> On Dec 18, 2015, at 7:44 AM, Lloyd - N9LB <lloydberg at charter.net> wrote:
> 
> Nice web site, Stan!
> 
> One of the pix says you paint your antennas with "icephobic paint".  Are you
> kidding or is there paint that is less likely to build up ice?  Can you give
> us details about that?
> 
> 73
> 
> Lloyd - N9LB
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Stan
> Stockton
> Sent: Friday, December 18, 2015 4:59 AM
> To: Merv Schweigert <k9fd at flex.com>
> Cc: topband at contesting.com
> Subject: Re: Topband: rohn insulators
> 
> Those look identical to the ones I made for my 8m 4 Square Towers.
> Use G10, not just any fiberglass.  The G10 rod is more like $20.00 per foot
> retail, unless you do a little searching.  The one thing I would do
> differently is add a washer over the machined ends of the fiberglass
> insulators to put a flat against the unturned portion of the insulator
> instead of the sharp edges from the ends of the tower legs.  Those sharp
> edges can splinter the fiberglass.  Also if you span the joint with flat G10
> material (maybe 4 inches wide by 18 inches long by 3/8 inches thick) it will
> at least reduce if not eliminate the lateral movement.
> 
> I have Fiberglas rod guying them now but for many years had four 70 foot
> towers unguyed with this setup at the base.
> 
> It is interesting that a lot of hams are let's say "thrifty" but when it
> comes to having something made or making it themselves to save hundreds or
> even thousands of dollars, many will pay whatever it takes to buy the end
> product.
> 
> http://k5go.com/40-meters/
> 
> 73...Stan, K5GO
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Dec 17, 2015, at 10:43 PM, Merv Schweigert <k9fd at flex.com> wrote:
>> 
>> 20 mins work with a 5.00 fibre glass rod spun in a lathe, sort of 
>> grossly overpriced exaggeration of a Rohn insulator.
>> 
>>> I believe there is a slight misrepresentation here. I've never seen 
>>> these in any Rohn catalog. Rather than calling them Rohn 25 tower
> insulators, I think they are better described as insulators for Rohn 25
> tower.
>>> 
>>> 73, Roger
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 12/17/2015 7:49 PM, w5jmw at towerfarm.net wrote:
>>>> ok,the station wanting the insulators for a rohn 25.there is a set 
>>>> available from ab5k.he is listing them on e-bay set of 3.look for 
>>>> dxer49 on e-bay.I believe they are new..73 john _________________ 
>>>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>> _________________
>>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>> 
>> _________________
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> 
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

From k6uj at pacbell.net  Fri Dec 18 12:11:58 2015
From: k6uj at pacbell.net (Robert Harmon)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2015 09:11:58 -0800
Subject: Topband: 160M ant advice
In-Reply-To: <7BBCC683-5584-4341-93C5-9B5D29A4172D@gmail.com>
References: <56736A2A.2070300@pacbell.net>
	<7BBCC683-5584-4341-93C5-9B5D29A4172D@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56743E5E.4060709@pacbell.net>

Stan,

With shunt feed I would gain the 18 foot mast with the yagis, the total 
overall height is 108 feet.
I haven't really considered shunt feeding.  I see your point of the 
wires with an L in proximity to other
antennas.  That was a worry I had with the 40 meter yagi and the L. I 
will look into shunt feeding.  I have ON4UN's book, probably should 
start there to bone up.  Any other resources to learn abut shunt feeding ?
The top band archives probably has a lot of discussions about shunt 
feeding also.

thanks Stan,
Bob
K6UJ



On 12/18/15 1:36 AM, Stan Stockton wrote:
> Bob,
>
> There is no reason I can think of to not shunt feed the tower as it is with either ground radials or elevated radials.  An inverted L isn't as good as a vertical for DX and you would just be adding clutter and horizontal wires in proximity to your other antennas.  Shunt feeding a tower is very, very simple.
>
> 73... Stan, K5GO
>
>> On Dec 17, 2015, at 8:06 PM, Robert Harmon <k6uj at pacbell.net> wrote:
>>
>> I am planning an install of a 160M inverted L  and would like critique from you top banders.
>> I was originally planning a separate tower for 160 but my XYL has squashed the idea  :-)
>> My tower is 90 feet fully extended with a 18 foot mast currently used for a Force 12 WARC plus 10/15 beam
>> on top and a N6BT DXU-32, 2EL 40 and 3EL 20  12 feet below.
>> At the top of the top section I have a 10 foot fiberglass pole I plan to extend out to support the vertical, so it will be 10 feet away from the tower.
>> I am thinking of feeding the vertical and having 4 elevated radials at the 14 foot level.
>> So the vertical wire will about 76 feet long.
>>
>> I am wondering if I would be better lowering the feedpoint & radial tie ins down from 14 feet say to 8 feet and have more length in the vertical portion of the L or better to have the 14 feet elevation for the radials ?
>>
>> Also the horizontal leg of the L on top will be about 5 feet below the 40/20 yagi only 10 feet out from the tower,
>> do you think this is OK as far as interaction between the yagi and the 160 L ?  Anything else I should consider ?
>> I have never had a decent 160 antenna, just hoping I can work something out with my existing situation
>>
>> thanks in advance,
>>
>> Bob
>> K6UJ
>>
>> _________________
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>


From mstangelo at comcast.net  Fri Dec 18 12:14:22 2015
From: mstangelo at comcast.net (mstangelo at comcast.net)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2015 17:14:22 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Topband: Weatherproofing F-type connectors
In-Reply-To: <CAMPv1h6VjQp2=KOx9mZ6c9pE2xm_exws=UGXGayYwKQ2HoK5WA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMPv1h6VjQp2=KOx9mZ6c9pE2xm_exws=UGXGayYwKQ2HoK5WA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1662232115.2283895.1450458862718.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net>

Larry,

My cable company recently replaced the coax to my house.

The Compression type F connector they used had an additional rubber gasket on the front so that it would make a watertight seal to the lightning arrestor bulkhead.

Mike N2MS

----- Original Message -----
From: Larry K4AB <larry.k4ab at gmail.com>
To: topband at contesting.com
Sent: Wed, 16 Dec 2015 02:43:56 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: Topband: Weatherproofing F-type connectors

I'm in the process of installing a receive 4 square for 160
using F type connectors and high quality flooded RG-6.

Do these things need additional weatherproofing?

As I recall all the many cable TV installations I have had
over the decades, done by major cable and satellite companies,
none have been weatherproofed.

If its good enough for those guys, at those frequencies,
shouldn't it be good for us at 1.8 MHz?


73,
Larry K4AB
_________________
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


From wd4kpd at suddenlink.net  Fri Dec 18 12:17:44 2015
From: wd4kpd at suddenlink.net (David Michael Gaytko // WD4KPD)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2015 17:17:44 +0000
Subject: Topband: antenna modification
Message-ID: <56743FB8.50601@suddenlink.net>

have hy-18ht with 80/160 tapped coil.

would like to try the inverted L configuration.  i do not have a 40m 
trap as provided in the L kit, but i have no need for 40m at this time.

so if i just don't use 40m, could i remove the 160 section from the coil 
and simply add the L extension to resonance ?

just wish to compare the two configs, and probably will not be a 
permanent addition.

david/wd4kpd


-- 
God's law is written in stone...all else is negotiable.


From ersmar at verizon.net  Fri Dec 18 12:27:41 2015
From: ersmar at verizon.net (Gene Smar)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2015 11:27:41 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Topband: 160M ant advice
Message-ID: <8684775.203089.1450459661246.JavaMail.root@vznit170128.mailsrvcs.net>

Bob:
 
     I built my shunt feed wire cage based on the design in Jeff Bigg's K1ZM book "DXing on the Edge..."  I bought it from the ARRL bookstore but you might be able to find it on Amazon, etc.  I used two widely-spaced wires whereas he used three in a triangular form held off the side of his tower with PVC pipe.  I was surprised at how well it seems to work for me ( I always get through and receive good reports.)  Good luck.
 
 
73 de
Gene Smar  AD3F
 



On 12/18/15, Robert Harmon wrote:

Stan,

With shunt feed I would gain the 18 foot mast with the yagis, the total 
overall height is 108 feet.
I haven't really considered shunt feeding. I see your point of the 
wires with an L in proximity to other
antennas. That was a worry I had with the 40 meter yagi and the L. I 
will look into shunt feeding. I have ON4UN's book, probably should 
start there to bone up. Any other resources to learn abut shunt feeding ?
The top band archives probably has a lot of discussions about shunt 
feeding also.

thanks Stan,
Bob
K6UJ



On 12/18/15 1:36 AM, Stan Stockton wrote:
> Bob,
>
> There is no reason I can think of to not shunt feed the tower as it is with either ground radials or elevated radials. An inverted L isn't as good as a vertical for DX and you would just be adding clutter and horizontal wires in proximity to your other antennas. Shunt feeding a tower is very, very simple.
>
> 73... Stan, K5GO
>
>> On Dec 17, 2015, at 8:06 PM, Robert Harmon k6uj at pacbell.net> wrote:
>>
>> I am planning an install of a 160M inverted L and would like critique from you top banders.
>> I was originally planning a separate tower for 160 but my XYL has squashed the idea :-)
>> My tower is 90 feet fully extended with a 18 foot mast currently used for a Force 12 WARC plus 10/15 beam
>> on top and a N6BT DXU-32, 2EL 40 and 3EL 20 12 feet below.
>> At the top of the top section I have a 10 foot fiberglass pole I plan to extend out to support the vertical, so it will be 10 feet away from the tower.
>> I am thinking of feeding the vertical and having 4 elevated radials at the 14 foot level.
>> So the vertical wire will about 76 feet long.
>>
>> I am wondering if I would be better lowering the feedpoint & radial tie ins down from 14 feet say to 8 feet and have more length in the vertical portion of the L or better to have the 14 feet elevation for the radials ?
>>
>> Also the horizontal leg of the L on top will be about 5 feet below the 40/20 yagi only 10 feet out from the tower,
>> do you think this is OK as far as interaction between the yagi and the 160 L ? Anything else I should consider ?
>> I have never had a decent 160 antenna, just hoping I can work something out with my existing situation
>>
>> thanks in advance,
>>
>> Bob
>> K6UJ
>>
>> _________________
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>

_________________
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

From herbert.schoenbohm at gmail.com  Fri Dec 18 12:38:33 2015
From: herbert.schoenbohm at gmail.com (Herbert Schoenbohm)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2015 13:38:33 -0400
Subject: Topband: 160M ant advice
In-Reply-To: <56743E5E.4060709@pacbell.net>
References: <56736A2A.2070300@pacbell.net>
	<7BBCC683-5584-4341-93C5-9B5D29A4172D@gmail.com>
	<56743E5E.4060709@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <56744499.6020104@gmail.com>

If you have such a structure IMHO the best thing you can do is to shunt 
feed it.  It is really easy to do.  Just drop a three or four wire 
"cage" down from the 60 foot level supported by two pieces of galvanized 
water pipe extending each about 24-36 inches from the tower. ..... and 
feed the wires at the bottom with a series capacitor or two capacitors 
with an Omega match. You can then tap this wire down to the tower at two 
foot increments.    To prevent having to move a "sweet point" tap up and 
down the tower it may be easier to measure the impedance and the 
inductive reactance and make a network to match what you have.  The 
three or four drop wires should be at least 24 inches from the tower and 
can avoid changes with wire sway by holding them tight with some nice 
hardware store springs after you attach some good porcelain insulators. 
In my case I use a flat wound AM BC coil to ground which is tapped from 
the ground up and a series vacuum cap from the cage wire to the coil so 
i can get a perfect match.  This way I can use a single coil and a 
single variable and by tapping the coil I can cover  a wide range of 
impedance.  For a really great synopsis of information of shunt feed 
methodology just visit W8JI.com and it is all there for you.


herb Schoenbohm, KV4FZ

On 12/18/2015 1:11 PM, Robert Harmon wrote:
> Stan,
>
> With shunt feed I would gain the 18 foot mast with the yagis, the 
> total overall height is 108 feet.
> I haven't really considered shunt feeding.  I see your point of the 
> wires with an L in proximity to other
> antennas.  That was a worry I had with the 40 meter yagi and the L. I 
> will look into shunt feeding.  I have ON4UN's book, probably should 
> start there to bone up.  Any other resources to learn abut shunt 
> feeding ?
> The top band archives probably has a lot of discussions about shunt 
> feeding also.
>
> thanks Stan,
> Bob
> K6UJ
>
>
>
> On 12/18/15 1:36 AM, Stan Stockton wrote:
>> Bob,
>>
>> There is no reason I can think of to not shunt feed the tower as it 
>> is with either ground radials or elevated radials.  An inverted L 
>> isn't as good as a vertical for DX and you would just be adding 
>> clutter and horizontal wires in proximity to your other antennas.  
>> Shunt feeding a tower is very, very simple.
>>
>> 73... Stan, K5GO
>>
>>> On Dec 17, 2015, at 8:06 PM, Robert Harmon <k6uj at pacbell.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> I am planning an install of a 160M inverted L  and would like 
>>> critique from you top banders.
>>> I was originally planning a separate tower for 160 but my XYL has 
>>> squashed the idea  :-)
>>> My tower is 90 feet fully extended with a 18 foot mast currently 
>>> used for a Force 12 WARC plus 10/15 beam
>>> on top and a N6BT DXU-32, 2EL 40 and 3EL 20  12 feet below.
>>> At the top of the top section I have a 10 foot fiberglass pole I 
>>> plan to extend out to support the vertical, so it will be 10 feet 
>>> away from the tower.
>>> I am thinking of feeding the vertical and having 4 elevated radials 
>>> at the 14 foot level.
>>> So the vertical wire will about 76 feet long.
>>>
>>> I am wondering if I would be better lowering the feedpoint & radial 
>>> tie ins down from 14 feet say to 8 feet and have more length in the 
>>> vertical portion of the L or better to have the 14 feet elevation 
>>> for the radials ?
>>>
>>> Also the horizontal leg of the L on top will be about 5 feet below 
>>> the 40/20 yagi only 10 feet out from the tower,
>>> do you think this is OK as far as interaction between the yagi and 
>>> the 160 L ?  Anything else I should consider ?
>>> I have never had a decent 160 antenna, just hoping I can work 
>>> something out with my existing situation
>>>
>>> thanks in advance,
>>>
>>> Bob
>>> K6UJ
>>>
>>> _________________
>>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>> _________________
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>
>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


From k6uj at pacbell.net  Fri Dec 18 12:44:01 2015
From: k6uj at pacbell.net (Robert Harmon)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2015 09:44:01 -0800
Subject: Topband: 160M ant advice
In-Reply-To: <8684775.203089.1450459661246.JavaMail.root@vznit170128.mailsrvcs.net>
References: <8684775.203089.1450459661246.JavaMail.root@vznit170128.mailsrvcs.net>
Message-ID: <567445E1.5000404@pacbell.net>

Gene,

The cage design sounds very interesting.  I just ordered the book :-)

thanks Gene,
Bob
K6UJ




On 12/18/15 9:27 AM, Gene Smar wrote:
> Bob:
>   
>       I built my shunt feed wire cage based on the design in Jeff Bigg's K1ZM book "DXing on the Edge..."  I bought it from the ARRL bookstore but you might be able to find it on Amazon, etc.  I used two widely-spaced wires whereas he used three in a triangular form held off the side of his tower with PVC pipe.  I was surprised at how well it seems to work for me ( I always get through and receive good reports.)  Good luck.
>   
>   
> 73 de
> Gene Smar  AD3F
>   
>
>
>
> On 12/18/15, Robert Harmon wrote:
>
> Stan,
>
> With shunt feed I would gain the 18 foot mast with the yagis, the total
> overall height is 108 feet.
> I haven't really considered shunt feeding. I see your point of the
> wires with an L in proximity to other
> antennas. That was a worry I had with the 40 meter yagi and the L. I
> will look into shunt feeding. I have ON4UN's book, probably should
> start there to bone up. Any other resources to learn abut shunt feeding ?
> The top band archives probably has a lot of discussions about shunt
> feeding also.
>
> thanks Stan,
> Bob
> K6UJ
>
>
>
> On 12/18/15 1:36 AM, Stan Stockton wrote:
>> Bob,
>>
>> There is no reason I can think of to not shunt feed the tower as it is with either ground radials or elevated radials. An inverted L isn't as good as a vertical for DX and you would just be adding clutter and horizontal wires in proximity to your other antennas. Shunt feeding a tower is very, very simple.
>>
>> 73... Stan, K5GO
>>
>>> On Dec 17, 2015, at 8:06 PM, Robert Harmon k6uj at pacbell.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> I am planning an install of a 160M inverted L and would like critique from you top banders.
>>> I was originally planning a separate tower for 160 but my XYL has squashed the idea :-)
>>> My tower is 90 feet fully extended with a 18 foot mast currently used for a Force 12 WARC plus 10/15 beam
>>> on top and a N6BT DXU-32, 2EL 40 and 3EL 20 12 feet below.
>>> At the top of the top section I have a 10 foot fiberglass pole I plan to extend out to support the vertical, so it will be 10 feet away from the tower.
>>> I am thinking of feeding the vertical and having 4 elevated radials at the 14 foot level.
>>> So the vertical wire will about 76 feet long.
>>>
>>> I am wondering if I would be better lowering the feedpoint & radial tie ins down from 14 feet say to 8 feet and have more length in the vertical portion of the L or better to have the 14 feet elevation for the radials ?
>>>
>>> Also the horizontal leg of the L on top will be about 5 feet below the 40/20 yagi only 10 feet out from the tower,
>>> do you think this is OK as far as interaction between the yagi and the 160 L ? Anything else I should consider ?
>>> I have never had a decent 160 antenna, just hoping I can work something out with my existing situation
>>>
>>> thanks in advance,
>>>
>>> Bob
>>> K6UJ
>>>
>>> _________________
>>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>> _________________
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>


From herbs at vitelcom.net  Fri Dec 18 12:59:07 2015
From: herbs at vitelcom.net (Herbert Schoenbohm)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2015 13:59:07 -0400
Subject: Topband: 160M ant advice
In-Reply-To: <567445E1.5000404@pacbell.net>
References: <8684775.203089.1450459661246.JavaMail.root@vznit170128.mailsrvcs.net>
	<567445E1.5000404@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <5674496B.5030402@vitelcom.net>

It is important to realize that a cage just hung of the side of a steel 
tower has some drawbacks. The pattern when modeled is somewhat 
asymmetrical to a slight degree. In a properly designed cage feed it is 
the cage that does the radiating and not the tower. (Above the cage is 
mainly the voltage part of the radiator.)  This is also important 
because the tower downwind of the cage may interact.  With a symmetrical 
cage around the tower that is not the case.  Also another advantage of 
the symmetrical cage is the reduction of RF pickup on rotor wires, coax 
feed lines to other antennas, and certain control lines for switching.   
Jeff's intentions were good in pioneering the "easy cage"idea.  But one 
thing that may influence some people are the aesthetics of a beautiful 
four wire symmetrical cage to something hanging of the side of your 
tower.    But for me the most impressive was the ease of installation as 
compared to the list of material required in the asymmetrical cage.  
There may also be a slight increase of bandwidth with a symmetrical 
cage  as claimed by some.


Herb Schoenbohm, KV4FZ

On 12/18/2015 1:44 PM, Robert Harmon wrote:
> Gene,
>
> The cage design sounds very interesting.  I just ordered the book :-)
>
> thanks Gene,
> Bob
> K6UJ
>
>
>
>
> On 12/18/15 9:27 AM, Gene Smar wrote:
>> Bob:
>>         I built my shunt feed wire cage based on the design in Jeff 
>> Bigg's K1ZM book "DXing on the Edge..."  I bought it from the ARRL 
>> bookstore but you might be able to find it on Amazon, etc.  I used 
>> two widely-spaced wires whereas he used three in a triangular form 
>> held off the side of his tower with PVC pipe.  I was surprised at how 
>> well it seems to work for me ( I always get through and receive good 
>> reports.)  Good luck.
>>     73 de
>> Gene Smar  AD3F
>>
>>
>>
>> On 12/18/15, Robert Harmon wrote:
>>
>> Stan,
>>
>> With shunt feed I would gain the 18 foot mast with the yagis, the total
>> overall height is 108 feet.
>> I haven't really considered shunt feeding. I see your point of the
>> wires with an L in proximity to other
>> antennas. That was a worry I had with the 40 meter yagi and the L. I
>> will look into shunt feeding. I have ON4UN's book, probably should
>> start there to bone up. Any other resources to learn abut shunt 
>> feeding ?
>> The top band archives probably has a lot of discussions about shunt
>> feeding also.
>>
>> thanks Stan,
>> Bob
>> K6UJ
>>
>>
>>
>> On 12/18/15 1:36 AM, Stan Stockton wrote:
>>> Bob,
>>>
>>> There is no reason I can think of to not shunt feed the tower as it 
>>> is with either ground radials or elevated radials. An inverted L 
>>> isn't as good as a vertical for DX and you would just be adding 
>>> clutter and horizontal wires in proximity to your other antennas. 
>>> Shunt feeding a tower is very, very simple.
>>>
>>> 73... Stan, K5GO
>>>
>>>> On Dec 17, 2015, at 8:06 PM, Robert Harmon k6uj at pacbell.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I am planning an install of a 160M inverted L and would like 
>>>> critique from you top banders.
>>>> I was originally planning a separate tower for 160 but my XYL has 
>>>> squashed the idea :-)
>>>> My tower is 90 feet fully extended with a 18 foot mast currently 
>>>> used for a Force 12 WARC plus 10/15 beam
>>>> on top and a N6BT DXU-32, 2EL 40 and 3EL 20 12 feet below.
>>>> At the top of the top section I have a 10 foot fiberglass pole I 
>>>> plan to extend out to support the vertical, so it will be 10 feet 
>>>> away from the tower.
>>>> I am thinking of feeding the vertical and having 4 elevated radials 
>>>> at the 14 foot level.
>>>> So the vertical wire will about 76 feet long.
>>>>
>>>> I am wondering if I would be better lowering the feedpoint & radial 
>>>> tie ins down from 14 feet say to 8 feet and have more length in the 
>>>> vertical portion of the L or better to have the 14 feet elevation 
>>>> for the radials ?
>>>>
>>>> Also the horizontal leg of the L on top will be about 5 feet below 
>>>> the 40/20 yagi only 10 feet out from the tower,
>>>> do you think this is OK as far as interaction between the yagi and 
>>>> the 160 L ? Anything else I should consider ?
>>>> I have never had a decent 160 antenna, just hoping I can work 
>>>> something out with my existing situation
>>>>
>>>> thanks in advance,
>>>>
>>>> Bob
>>>> K6UJ
>>>>
>>>> _________________
>>>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>> _________________
>>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>>
>> _________________
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>> _________________
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>
>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


From k6uj at pacbell.net  Fri Dec 18 13:16:34 2015
From: k6uj at pacbell.net (Robert Harmon)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2015 10:16:34 -0800
Subject: Topband: 160M ant advice
In-Reply-To: <56744499.6020104@gmail.com>
References: <56736A2A.2070300@pacbell.net>
	<7BBCC683-5584-4341-93C5-9B5D29A4172D@gmail.com>
	<56743E5E.4060709@pacbell.net> <56744499.6020104@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56744D82.9040602@pacbell.net>

Gene, AD3F also suggested a cage.  It looks like a great way to go. You 
mentioned using a flat
wound AM BC coil in your matching arrangement.  I have a Gates flatwound 
roller inductor that may
have been used in AM BC.  It is huge, about 8 inches in diameter and 16 
inches long.  The spacing
between the flat coils is about 1/2"  I have it stashed away for that 
special project,  looks like I have the
special project now, hihi.
I will check out W8JI's information too, that's what I need the most 
right now, shunt feeding is new to me.

thanks Herb,
Bob
K6UJ

On 12/18/15 9:38 AM, Herbert Schoenbohm wrote:
> If you have such a structure IMHO the best thing you can do is to 
> shunt feed it.  It is really easy to do.  Just drop a three or four 
> wire "cage" down from the 60 foot level supported by two pieces of 
> galvanized water pipe extending each about 24-36 inches from the 
> tower. ..... and feed the wires at the bottom with a series capacitor 
> or two capacitors with an Omega match. You can then tap this wire down 
> to the tower at two foot increments.    To prevent having to move a 
> "sweet point" tap up and down the tower it may be easier to measure 
> the impedance and the inductive reactance and make a network to match 
> what you have.  The three or four drop wires should be at least 24 
> inches from the tower and can avoid changes with wire sway by holding 
> them tight with some nice hardware store springs after you attach some 
> good porcelain insulators. In my case I use a flat wound AM BC coil to 
> ground which is tapped from the ground up and a series vacuum cap from 
> the cage wire to the coil so i can get a perfect match.  This way I 
> can use a single coil and a single variable and by tapping the coil I 
> can cover  a wide range of impedance.  For a really great synopsis of 
> information of shunt feed methodology just visit W8JI.com and it is 
> all there for you.
>
>
> herb Schoenbohm, KV4FZ
>
> On 12/18/2015 1:11 PM, Robert Harmon wrote:
>> Stan,
>>
>> With shunt feed I would gain the 18 foot mast with the yagis, the 
>> total overall height is 108 feet.
>> I haven't really considered shunt feeding.  I see your point of the 
>> wires with an L in proximity to other
>> antennas.  That was a worry I had with the 40 meter yagi and the L. I 
>> will look into shunt feeding.  I have ON4UN's book, probably should 
>> start there to bone up.  Any other resources to learn abut shunt 
>> feeding ?
>> The top band archives probably has a lot of discussions about shunt 
>> feeding also.
>>
>> thanks Stan,
>> Bob
>> K6UJ
>>
>>
>>
>> On 12/18/15 1:36 AM, Stan Stockton wrote:
>>> Bob,
>>>
>>> There is no reason I can think of to not shunt feed the tower as it 
>>> is with either ground radials or elevated radials.  An inverted L 
>>> isn't as good as a vertical for DX and you would just be adding 
>>> clutter and horizontal wires in proximity to your other antennas.  
>>> Shunt feeding a tower is very, very simple.
>>>
>>> 73... Stan, K5GO
>>>
>>>> On Dec 17, 2015, at 8:06 PM, Robert Harmon <k6uj at pacbell.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I am planning an install of a 160M inverted L  and would like 
>>>> critique from you top banders.
>>>> I was originally planning a separate tower for 160 but my XYL has 
>>>> squashed the idea  :-)
>>>> My tower is 90 feet fully extended with a 18 foot mast currently 
>>>> used for a Force 12 WARC plus 10/15 beam
>>>> on top and a N6BT DXU-32, 2EL 40 and 3EL 20  12 feet below.
>>>> At the top of the top section I have a 10 foot fiberglass pole I 
>>>> plan to extend out to support the vertical, so it will be 10 feet 
>>>> away from the tower.
>>>> I am thinking of feeding the vertical and having 4 elevated radials 
>>>> at the 14 foot level.
>>>> So the vertical wire will about 76 feet long.
>>>>
>>>> I am wondering if I would be better lowering the feedpoint & radial 
>>>> tie ins down from 14 feet say to 8 feet and have more length in the 
>>>> vertical portion of the L or better to have the 14 feet elevation 
>>>> for the radials ?
>>>>
>>>> Also the horizontal leg of the L on top will be about 5 feet below 
>>>> the 40/20 yagi only 10 feet out from the tower,
>>>> do you think this is OK as far as interaction between the yagi and 
>>>> the 160 L ?  Anything else I should consider ?
>>>> I have never had a decent 160 antenna, just hoping I can work 
>>>> something out with my existing situation
>>>>
>>>> thanks in advance,
>>>>
>>>> Bob
>>>> K6UJ
>>>>
>>>> _________________
>>>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>> _________________
>>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>>
>>
>> _________________
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>


From egan.dennis88 at gmail.com  Fri Dec 18 13:48:25 2015
From: egan.dennis88 at gmail.com (Dennis)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2015 13:48:25 -0500
Subject: Topband: 160M Propagation
Message-ID: <567454F9.5060505@gmail.com>

I recently operated as CX/W1UE, from Uruguay.  I had difficulty hearing 
stations on most nights,
but the night from 2200Z Thursday Dec 10 to 0600Z Friday Dec 11, I had 
no trouble hearing
stations on either 160 or 80M.  I worked more stations in that 8 hour 
time period that I did in
20 hours spread over 2 weeks.  I keep coming back to the same question- 
why?

Since I have never operated from CX before, I have nothing to evaluate 
the 2 weeks against.
Did that night have exceptional low band propagation?

For that one night, I had no problems hearing anyone, it seemed.  I 
worked as far east as UA9
in Z18 on 80M,  and a dozen Europeans on 160M.  Stations that I never 
heard before or after
that night.  I'm trying to figure out how I heard so well on that night, 
but not on the other 10 nights
where I also tried to make 80/160M QSOs.  I can't explain it.

Dennis CX/W1UE now just W1UE.


From ersmar at verizon.net  Fri Dec 18 13:58:25 2015
From: ersmar at verizon.net (Gene Smar)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2015 12:58:25 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Topband: 160M ant advice
Message-ID: <25563865.207566.1450465105929.JavaMail.root@vznit170164.mailsrvcs.net>

Bob:
 
     Here's a link to a link that has some photos of a shunt feed cage similar to mine:  
http://lists.contesting.com/archives//html/Towertalk/2005-12/msg00643.html.  It's not really a "cage" but Phil has three parallel wires in the same plane running up the side of his Trylon 72 foot tower, whereas I have two wires (I had 3 but the 3rd didn't make any difference) running up my 64 ft Trylon tower.  I used heavy cable ties to keep the end and middle of the PVC Ts in place on the tower.  Phil installed an Omega match (two vacuum variable caps) and my match uses a single series bread slicer cap.  
 
 
73 de
Gene Smar  AD3F
 


On 12/18/15, Robert Harmon wrote:

Gene,

The cage design sounds very interesting. I just ordered the book :-)

thanks Gene,
Bob
K6UJ




On 12/18/15 9:27 AM, Gene Smar wrote:
> Bob:
> 
> I built my shunt feed wire cage based on the design in Jeff Bigg's K1ZM book "DXing on the Edge..." I bought it from the ARRL bookstore but you might be able to find it on Amazon, etc. I used two widely-spaced wires whereas he used three in a triangular form held off the side of his tower with PVC pipe. I was surprised at how well it seems to work for me ( I always get through and receive good reports.) Good luck.
> 
> 
> 73 de
> Gene Smar AD3F
> 
>
>
>
> On 12/18/15, Robert Harmon wrote:
>
> Stan,
>
> With shunt feed I would gain the 18 foot mast with the yagis, the total
> overall height is 108 feet.
> I haven't really considered shunt feeding. I see your point of the
> wires with an L in proximity to other
> antennas. That was a worry I had with the 40 meter yagi and the L. I
> will look into shunt feeding. I have ON4UN's book, probably should
> start there to bone up. Any other resources to learn abut shunt feeding ?
> The top band archives probably has a lot of discussions about shunt
> feeding also.
>
> thanks Stan,
> Bob
> K6UJ
>
>
>
> On 12/18/15 1:36 AM, Stan Stockton wrote:
>> Bob,
>>
>> There is no reason I can think of to not shunt feed the tower as it is with either ground radials or elevated radials. An inverted L isn't as good as a vertical for DX and you would just be adding clutter and horizontal wires in proximity to your other antennas. Shunt feeding a tower is very, very simple.
>>
>> 73... Stan, K5GO
>>
>>> On Dec 17, 2015, at 8:06 PM, Robert Harmon k6uj at pacbell.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> I am planning an install of a 160M inverted L and would like critique from you top banders.
>>> I was originally planning a separate tower for 160 but my XYL has squashed the idea :-)
>>> My tower is 90 feet fully extended with a 18 foot mast currently used for a Force 12 WARC plus 10/15 beam
>>> on top and a N6BT DXU-32, 2EL 40 and 3EL 20 12 feet below.
>>> At the top of the top section I have a 10 foot fiberglass pole I plan to extend out to support the vertical, so it will be 10 feet away from the tower.
>>> I am thinking of feeding the vertical and having 4 elevated radials at the 14 foot level.
>>> So the vertical wire will about 76 feet long.
>>>
>>> I am wondering if I would be better lowering the feedpoint & radial tie ins down from 14 feet say to 8 feet and have more length in the vertical portion of the L or better to have the 14 feet elevation for the radials ?
>>>
>>> Also the horizontal leg of the L on top will be about 5 feet below the 40/20 yagi only 10 feet out from the tower,
>>> do you think this is OK as far as interaction between the yagi and the 160 L ? Anything else I should consider ?
>>> I have never had a decent 160 antenna, just hoping I can work something out with my existing situation
>>>
>>> thanks in advance,
>>>
>>> Bob
>>> K6UJ
>>>
>>> _________________
>>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>> _________________
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>

_________________
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

From olof at rowanhouse.net  Fri Dec 18 14:08:16 2015
From: olof at rowanhouse.net (Olof Lundberg)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2015 20:08:16 +0100
Subject: Topband: 160M Propagation
In-Reply-To: <567454F9.5060505@gmail.com>
References: <567454F9.5060505@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6288FD01-6BEB-448E-8F79-858E0436DA5F@rowanhouse.net>

Dennis - it would be interesting to know when your qsos occurred in relation to your local midnight or the midpoint midnight and to the greylines. 
73 Olof G0CKV

Sent from my iPad

> On 18 Dec 2015, at 19:48, Dennis <egan.dennis88 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I recently operated as CX/W1UE, from Uruguay.  I had difficulty hearing stations on most nights,
> but the night from 2200Z Thursday Dec 10 to 0600Z Friday Dec 11, I had no trouble hearing
> stations on either 160 or 80M.  I worked more stations in that 8 hour time period that I did in
> 20 hours spread over 2 weeks.  I keep coming back to the same question- why?
> 
>  I have never operated from CX before, I have nothing to evaluate the 2 weeks against.
> Did that night have exceptional low band propagation?
> 
> For that one night, I had no problems hearing anyone, it seemed.  I worked as far east as UA9
> in Z18 on 80M,  and a dozen Europeans on 160M.  Stations that I never heard before or after
> that night.  I'm trying to figure out how I heard so well on that night, but not on the other 10 nights
> where I also tried to make 80/160M QSOs.  I can't explain it.
> 
> Dennis CX/W1UE now just W1UE.
> 
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

From k6uj at pacbell.net  Fri Dec 18 15:33:42 2015
From: k6uj at pacbell.net (Robert Harmon)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2015 12:33:42 -0800
Subject: Topband: 160M ant advice
In-Reply-To: <567445E1.5000404@pacbell.net>
References: <8684775.203089.1450459661246.JavaMail.root@vznit170128.mailsrvcs.net>
	<567445E1.5000404@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <56746DA6.3050007@pacbell.net>


Gentlemen,

Thanks for all the info and advice on putting up a 160M antenna.
I have received help both on and off the reflector.
I wasn't sure whether to post the question because I know you have 
discussed
this many times before !

thanks, much appreciated !

73,
Bob
K6UJ



From egan.dennis88 at gmail.com  Fri Dec 18 15:45:55 2015
From: egan.dennis88 at gmail.com (Dennis)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2015 15:45:55 -0500
Subject: Topband: 160M Propagation
In-Reply-To: <6288FD01-6BEB-448E-8F79-858E0436DA5F@rowanhouse.net>
References: <567454F9.5060505@gmail.com>
	<6288FD01-6BEB-448E-8F79-858E0436DA5F@rowanhouse.net>
Message-ID: <56747083.1060006@gmail.com>

Ollie

Started on 80M at 2306Z when I worked SM3EVR.
 From 2306z-0150Z, all 80m, worked 11 Europeans.
Called CQ on 160M at 0145Z or so, worked 1 USA station.
Dinner was from 0150-0350z.
80M again, from 0350-0444 worked 19 Europeans.
Had advertised I would be on 160M at 0445Z, so I switched there.
0448-0610Z worked 12 Europeans.
0610-0655 now back on 80M worked another 27 Europeans.

Local midnight is 0300Z.

Dennis W1UE

On 12/18/2015 2:08 PM, Olof Lundberg wrote:
> Dennis - it would be interesting to know when your qsos occurred in relation to your local midnight or the midpoint midnight and to the greylines.
> 73 Olof G0CKV
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On 18 Dec 2015, at 19:48, Dennis <egan.dennis88 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I recently operated as CX/W1UE, from Uruguay.  I had difficulty hearing stations on most nights,
>> but the night from 2200Z Thursday Dec 10 to 0600Z Friday Dec 11, I had no trouble hearing
>> stations on either 160 or 80M.  I worked more stations in that 8 hour time period that I did in
>> 20 hours spread over 2 weeks.  I keep coming back to the same question- why?
>>
>>   I have never operated from CX before, I have nothing to evaluate the 2 weeks against.
>> Did that night have exceptional low band propagation?
>>
>> For that one night, I had no problems hearing anyone, it seemed.  I worked as far east as UA9
>> in Z18 on 80M,  and a dozen Europeans on 160M.  Stations that I never heard before or after
>> that night.  I'm trying to figure out how I heard so well on that night, but not on the other 10 nights
>> where I also tried to make 80/160M QSOs.  I can't explain it.
>>
>> Dennis CX/W1UE now just W1UE.
>>
>> _________________
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


From indians at xsmail.com  Fri Dec 18 16:15:16 2015
From: indians at xsmail.com (Petr Ourednik)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2015 22:15:16 +0100
Subject: Topband: safely sharing an RX antenna
In-Reply-To: <1682384823.14705.1450332372459.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1682384823.14705.1450332372459.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1682384823.14705.1450332372459.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1450473316.3681551.471389617.6925696E@webmail.messagingengine.com>

Hi

it sounds like SO2R on the same band... Its interresting for me too. I
am using one solution in CQ160m in order to use 2nd radio for S&P but
its disconnected from antenna and grounded as same as 1st radio in RUN
during TX period. So I am curious what other TBers are using...

73 - Petr, OK1RP

On Thu, Dec 17, 2015, at 07:06 AM, Bob Kupps via Topband wrote:
> Hi I was thinking about using a 3dB splitter and tuning the band with our
> second K3 using our HiZ monoband 8 circle while we were calling CQ in the
> Stew. The center of the array is located 105 meters from the xmit
> vertical, uses 20' elements, the included preamp and 100m of RG6
> transmission line.?
> Could dangerously high signal levels appear at the unmuted second radio
> antenna terminal? What about if the second radio is inadvertently tuned
> to the xmit frequency? It would seem impossible if the external antenna
> preamps are not damaged...but I'm still a 1R op so I better ask first!
> TU 73 Bob HS0ZIA
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

From richard at karlquist.com  Fri Dec 18 17:33:28 2015
From: richard at karlquist.com (Richard (Rick) Karlquist)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2015 14:33:28 -0800
Subject: Topband: Weatherproofing F-type connectors
In-Reply-To: <1662232115.2283895.1450458862718.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net>
References: <CAMPv1h6VjQp2=KOx9mZ6c9pE2xm_exws=UGXGayYwKQ2HoK5WA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1662232115.2283895.1450458862718.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <567489B8.8040803@karlquist.com>



On 12/18/2015 9:14 AM, mstangelo at comcast.net wrote:
> Larry,
>
> My cable company recently replaced the coax to my house.
>
> The Compression type F connector they used had an additional rubber gasket on the front so that it would make a watertight seal to the lightning arrestor bulkhead.
>
> Mike N2MS
>

My DirecTV splitter box has "rubber boots" that protect
the F connectors.  The boots stay with the female
F connector.

Rick N6RK

From k6fsb.1 at gmail.com  Fri Dec 18 17:33:34 2015
From: k6fsb.1 at gmail.com (Renee K6FSB)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2015 14:33:34 -0800
Subject: Topband: Weatherproofing F-type connectors
In-Reply-To: <1662232115.2283895.1450458862718.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net>
References: <CAMPv1h6VjQp2=KOx9mZ6c9pE2xm_exws=UGXGayYwKQ2HoK5WA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1662232115.2283895.1450458862718.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <567489BE.3070201@gmail.com>

Hi Larry-
two possible kinds F Connectors, maybe more 1. O ring inside the 
fitting  look for ( PCT International) PCT-TRS-6LMG
or 2. on the exterior like a rubber nose (Belden) PPC EX6WS note this 
connector is a bit larger in diametre on the "nut", there is also a XL 
version.
most likely #2, the Direct TV guy installed #1 type on a recent install 
and claimed to have zero issues.
if you do an epay search you will find the connectors....
hope this helps.
73, Merry Christmas
Ren?e, K6FSB



mstangelo at comcast.net wrote:
> Larry,
>
> My cable company recently replaced the coax to my house.
>
> The Compression type F connector they used had an additional rubber gasket on the front so that it would make a watertight seal to the lightning arrestor bulkhead.
>
> Mike N2MS
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Larry K4AB <larry.k4ab at gmail.com>
> To: topband at contesting.com
> Sent: Wed, 16 Dec 2015 02:43:56 -0000 (UTC)
> Subject: Topband: Weatherproofing F-type connectors
>
> I'm in the process of installing a receive 4 square for 160
> using F type connectors and high quality flooded RG-6.
>
> Do these things need additional weatherproofing?
>
> As I recall all the many cable TV installations I have had
> over the decades, done by major cable and satellite companies,
> none have been weatherproofed.
>
> If its good enough for those guys, at those frequencies,
> shouldn't it be good for us at 1.8 MHz?
>
>
> 73,
> Larry K4AB
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
>   

From richard at karlquist.com  Fri Dec 18 17:40:54 2015
From: richard at karlquist.com (Richard (Rick) Karlquist)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2015 14:40:54 -0800
Subject: Topband: safely sharing an RX antenna
In-Reply-To: <1450473316.3681551.471389617.6925696E@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <1682384823.14705.1450332372459.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1682384823.14705.1450332372459.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1450473316.3681551.471389617.6925696E@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <56748B76.5090306@karlquist.com>



On 12/18/2015 1:15 PM, Petr Ourednik wrote:
> Hi
>
> it sounds like SO2R on the same band... Its interresting for me too. I
> am using one solution in CQ160m in order to use 2nd radio for S&P but
> its disconnected from antenna and grounded as same as 1st radio in RUN
> during TX period. So I am curious what other TBers are using...
>
> 73 - Petr, OK1RP

I have run SO2R single band in a number of 160 meter contests.
If the signal level at the receiver is anywhere near the damage
level, you won't be able to hear anything even if the receiver
is undamaged.  I used a loop receiving antenna 1000 feet from my
transmit antenna, and I carefully nulled out my own transmitter
by rotating the loop.  Worked pretty well even with just
a TS570 for the 2nd radio.

Rick N6RK

From mikewate at gmail.com  Fri Dec 18 17:39:32 2015
From: mikewate at gmail.com (Mike Waters)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2015 16:39:32 -0600
Subject: Topband: Weatherproofing F-type connectors
In-Reply-To: <567489BE.3070201@gmail.com>
References: <CAMPv1h6VjQp2=KOx9mZ6c9pE2xm_exws=UGXGayYwKQ2HoK5WA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1662232115.2283895.1450458862718.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net>
	<567489BE.3070201@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+FxYXgLHyYodkUQQ9D9ynXiU916ZTNgJAjZN-X7XBYW+ZDd3w@mail.gmail.com>

Home Depot sells a snap-and-seal F connector kit with the stripper and
crimper.

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com

From jcclark at myfairpoint.net  Fri Dec 18 17:47:55 2015
From: jcclark at myfairpoint.net (Craig Clark)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2015 17:47:55 -0500
Subject: Topband: 160m Antenna advice
In-Reply-To: <mailman.9271.1450473324.3273.topband@contesting.com>
References: <mailman.9271.1450473324.3273.topband@contesting.com>
Message-ID: <055301d139e6$239da3d0$6ad8eb70$@net>

Bob:
 
     I built my shunt feed wire cage based on the design in Jeff Bigg's K1ZM
book "DXing on the Edge..."  I bought it from the ARRL bookstore but you
might be able to find it on Amazon, etc.  I used two widely-spaced wires
whereas he used three in a triangular form held off the side of his tower
with PVC pipe.  I was surprised at how well it seems to work for me ( I
always get through and receive good reports.)  Good luck.
 
 
73 de
Gene Smar  AD3F
 

Bob and Gene,

Seasons Greetings 

Over the years there have been a number of articles on using a cage to feed
a vertical antenna. Some of the ideas came from Laport's Antenna Engineering
book as well as in amateur radio magazines; DeMaw in QST in the early 70's
to name one.

I have been using the unipole design here in NH since 1979. I have a 12"
wire triangle 3' from the tower using 2x4"s as standoffs. Since this is
around a 200 ohm antenna, I use a step-up L network to feed the antenna.
Bottom line is it works.

Here are some references:

http://www.jmu.edu/wmra-eng/archive/mullaney-be.pdf

Oct 1975 QST page 25-26 by DeMaw (design I used)

>From Ham Radio Magazine

Shunt-fed tower (HN)	N6HZ	74	Nov 79	+

Shunt-feed systems for grounded vertical radiators, how to design	W4OQ
34	May 75 *many consider this article by John True a classic

Hope this helps

Craig 
Craig Clark K1QX
PO Box 209
107 Fitzgerald Rd
Rindge NH 03461
(603) 899-6103 office
(603) 520 6577 cell




From k6uj at pacbell.net  Fri Dec 18 18:04:56 2015
From: k6uj at pacbell.net (Robert Harmon)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2015 15:04:56 -0800
Subject: Topband: Weatherproofing F-type connectors
In-Reply-To: <567489BE.3070201@gmail.com>
References: <CAMPv1h6VjQp2=KOx9mZ6c9pE2xm_exws=UGXGayYwKQ2HoK5WA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1662232115.2283895.1450458862718.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net>
	<567489BE.3070201@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56749118.8020801@pacbell.net>

Renee speaks the truth :-)

I use these connectors myself Larry.  They have a double o-ring seal and 
are indeed water proof.
Have been using them for quite some time now outside and no water intrusion.
I would advise to get a good quality compression tool.  You will be glad 
you did.  PCT sells
good pro ones from their website but I found them cheaper on Amazon.

73,
Bob
K6UJ

On 12/18/15 2:33 PM, Renee K6FSB wrote:
> Hi Larry-
> two possible kinds F Connectors, maybe more 1. O ring inside the 
> fitting  look for ( PCT International) PCT-TRS-6LMG
> or 2. on the exterior like a rubber nose (Belden) PPC EX6WS note this 
> connector is a bit larger in diametre on the "nut", there is also a XL 
> version.
> most likely #2, the Direct TV guy installed #1 type on a recent 
> install and claimed to have zero issues.
> if you do an epay search you will find the connectors....
> hope this helps.
> 73, Merry Christmas
> Ren?e, K6FSB
>
>
>
> mstangelo at comcast.net wrote:
>> Larry,
>>
>> My cable company recently replaced the coax to my house.
>>
>> The Compression type F connector they used had an additional rubber 
>> gasket on the front so that it would make a watertight seal to the 
>> lightning arrestor bulkhead.
>>
>> Mike N2MS
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Larry K4AB <larry.k4ab at gmail.com>
>> To: topband at contesting.com
>> Sent: Wed, 16 Dec 2015 02:43:56 -0000 (UTC)
>> Subject: Topband: Weatherproofing F-type connectors
>>
>> I'm in the process of installing a receive 4 square for 160
>> using F type connectors and high quality flooded RG-6.
>>
>> Do these things need additional weatherproofing?
>>
>> As I recall all the many cable TV installations I have had
>> over the decades, done by major cable and satellite companies,
>> none have been weatherproofed.
>>
>> If its good enough for those guys, at those frequencies,
>> shouldn't it be good for us at 1.8 MHz?
>>
>>
>> 73,
>> Larry K4AB
>> _________________
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>
>> _________________
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>


From sawyered at earthlink.net  Fri Dec 18 18:10:39 2015
From: sawyered at earthlink.net (Ed Sawyer)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2015 18:10:39 -0500
Subject: Topband: safely sharing an RX antenna
Message-ID: <001b01d139e9$51152b00$f33f8100$@earthlink.net>

I have a pair of 900 ft parallel beverages to the NE.  The feed point of the
beverages is approximately 350 ft from the closest of the 2 T verticals.
The T verticals pattern is directly towards the beverage array since both
point NE.  Obviously the beverages go away from the array to the NE.

 

I can transmit with 1.5kW and be listening 15khz away with the preamp off on
the beverage antenna and hear very well but with some interference (maybe s5
- 6).  At 25 - 30khz away I can hear the noise floor while transmitting.
You hear the thumping of the noise but its not increasing the meter.  This
is with a 250khz wide filter.

 

The 2 radios are FT1000MPs sharing the same beverage with a 3db splitter.

 

On SSB, the interference is worse and I have to add about 10dB of pad to the
above.

 

Ed  N1UR


From KD8RQE at aol.com  Fri Dec 18 19:06:02 2015
From: KD8RQE at aol.com (KD8RQE at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2015 19:06:02 -0500
Subject: Topband: RG6 Coax and F connectors
Message-ID: <81231d.23e4324.43a5f96a@aol.com>

  
I'm putting in a Hi-Z Rx array for 160m and at the suggestion of Lee K7TJR  
bought coax and F connectors at 3 Star, Inc http://www.3starinc.com/.  
Purchased  1000' of flooded direct bury quad shield RG6 (F677TSEF) for $70 and 
compression  F connectors for $0.28 apiece (PPC EX6WS).  Thought this might 
be  of value to others installing similar arrays.  Hope to get this in by the 
 Stew.  I have 77 worked on 160 on my inverted L in 2 years of Top Band  
operating and I sure hope this gets me to 100 (and 9 band DXCC), maybe even 
yet  this season. :)  Hope to pull Eugene RA0FF and others out of the  noise 
one morning--I can hear you are there, just not quite good enough to hear  my 
call.  Good luck and Happy Holidays to all.  
 
73
 
Mike KD8RQE

From mikewate at gmail.com  Fri Dec 18 19:33:50 2015
From: mikewate at gmail.com (Mike Waters)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2015 18:33:50 -0600
Subject: Topband: Weatherproofing F-type connectors
In-Reply-To: <56749118.8020801@pacbell.net>
References: <CAMPv1h6VjQp2=KOx9mZ6c9pE2xm_exws=UGXGayYwKQ2HoK5WA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1662232115.2283895.1450458862718.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net>
	<567489BE.3070201@gmail.com> <56749118.8020801@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <CA+FxYXh0YxanhJxSxpeQ=npEt3rSVndHBa2CvN5Px3sMFzTh6w@mail.gmail.com>

O-rings are good. :-)

However, even if we use good waterproof F connectors with O-rings,
condensation --followed by corrosion-- can still occur when the outside
temperature drops.

For that reason, applying a sufficient amount of non-hardening silicone
dielectric "grease" to the center conductor *is still important*. It fills
the voids and excludes air (which will contain moisture) from the assembled
connector.

And if we run the legal limit through F connectors (which I and other hams
have done for years), silicone dielectric compound can help prevent arcing
inside the F connector.

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com

On Fri, Dec 18, 2015 at 5:04 PM, Robert Harmon <k6uj at pacbell.net> wrote:

> Renee speaks the truth :-)
>
> I use these connectors myself Larry.  They have a double o-ring seal and
> are indeed water proof.
> Have been using them for quite some time now outside and no water
> intrusion.
> I would advise to get a good quality compression tool. ...
>
> On 12/18/15 2:33 PM, Renee K6FSB wrote:
>
>> ... F Connectors, maybe more 1. O ring inside the fitting  look for ( PCT
>> International) PCT-TRS-6LMG or 2. on the exterior like a rubber nose
>> (Belden)
>>
>

From mikewate at gmail.com  Fri Dec 18 20:02:25 2015
From: mikewate at gmail.com (Mike Waters)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2015 19:02:25 -0600
Subject: Topband: Weatherproofing F-type connectors
In-Reply-To: <00ba01d139f7$e4c0a1f0$ae41e5d0$@erols.com>
References: <CAMPv1h6VjQp2=KOx9mZ6c9pE2xm_exws=UGXGayYwKQ2HoK5WA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1662232115.2283895.1450458862718.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net>
	<567489BE.3070201@gmail.com> <56749118.8020801@pacbell.net>
	<CA+FxYXh0YxanhJxSxpeQ=npEt3rSVndHBa2CvN5Px3sMFzTh6w@mail.gmail.com>
	<00ba01d139f7$e4c0a1f0$ae41e5d0$@erols.com>
Message-ID: <CA+FxYXgNMvO_gGgbkrAHxUYdUf61NBx3+H4AQ3yrvnedt4QbJQ@mail.gmail.com>

I don't, sorry. It's available at auto parts stores. And a Google search
for "silicone dielectric" should return lots of results.

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com

On Fri, Dec 18, 2015 at 6:55 PM, Bill Hider <n3rr at erols.com> wrote:

> Do you have a part number/manufacturer for the "non-hardening silicone
> dielectric "grease"?
>

From n3rr at erols.com  Fri Dec 18 20:07:36 2015
From: n3rr at erols.com (Bill Hider)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2015 20:07:36 -0500
Subject: Topband: Weatherproofing F-type connectors
In-Reply-To: <CA+FxYXgNMvO_gGgbkrAHxUYdUf61NBx3+H4AQ3yrvnedt4QbJQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMPv1h6VjQp2=KOx9mZ6c9pE2xm_exws=UGXGayYwKQ2HoK5WA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1662232115.2283895.1450458862718.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net>
	<567489BE.3070201@gmail.com> <56749118.8020801@pacbell.net>
	<CA+FxYXh0YxanhJxSxpeQ=npEt3rSVndHBa2CvN5Px3sMFzTh6w@mail.gmail.com>
	<00ba01d139f7$e4c0a1f0$ae41e5d0$@erols.com>
	<CA+FxYXgNMvO_gGgbkrAHxUYdUf61NBx3+H4AQ3yrvnedt4QbJQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <00c301d139f9$a6194950$f24bdbf0$@erols.com>


Thanks Mike,



>From Home Depot:
Super Lube,  Model # 91003, Internet # 202932695 


Bill N3RR


 

 

From: Mike Waters [mailto:mikewate at gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, December 18, 2015 8:02 PM
To: Bill Hider
Cc: topband
Subject: Re: Topband: Weatherproofing F-type connectors

 

I don't, sorry. It's available at auto parts stores. And a Google search for "silicone dielectric" should return lots of results.

73, Mike

www.w0btu.com

 

On Fri, Dec 18, 2015 at 6:55 PM, Bill Hider <n3rr at erols.com> wrote:

Do you have a part number/manufacturer for the "non-hardening silicone
dielectric "grease"?

 

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.7294 / Virus Database: 4489/11204 - Release Date: 12/18/15


From grimm at sbc.edu  Fri Dec 18 20:53:40 2015
From: grimm at sbc.edu (Kenneth Grimm)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2015 20:53:40 -0500
Subject: Topband: Weatherproofing F-type connectors
In-Reply-To: <00c301d139f9$a6194950$f24bdbf0$@erols.com>
References: <CAMPv1h6VjQp2=KOx9mZ6c9pE2xm_exws=UGXGayYwKQ2HoK5WA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1662232115.2283895.1450458862718.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net>
	<567489BE.3070201@gmail.com> <56749118.8020801@pacbell.net>
	<CA+FxYXh0YxanhJxSxpeQ=npEt3rSVndHBa2CvN5Px3sMFzTh6w@mail.gmail.com>
	<00ba01d139f7$e4c0a1f0$ae41e5d0$@erols.com>
	<CA+FxYXgNMvO_gGgbkrAHxUYdUf61NBx3+H4AQ3yrvnedt4QbJQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<00c301d139f9$a6194950$f24bdbf0$@erols.com>
Message-ID: <CAN1acjb+8eQr2R5m+8MZZXs8PtcaCfD85EoQXBoLv+xDGea6JA@mail.gmail.com>

>From an auto supply store (Advance or Autozone) VersaChem part no. 15339 -
Dielectirc Connector Grease.

73,

Ken - K4XL

On Fri, Dec 18, 2015 at 8:07 PM, Bill Hider <n3rr at erols.com> wrote:

>
> Thanks Mike,
>
>
>
> From Home Depot:
> Super Lube,  Model # 91003, Internet # 202932695
>
>
> Bill N3RR
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Mike Waters [mailto:mikewate at gmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, December 18, 2015 8:02 PM
> To: Bill Hider
> Cc: topband
> Subject: Re: Topband: Weatherproofing F-type connectors
>
>
>
> I don't, sorry. It's available at auto parts stores. And a Google search
> for "silicone dielectric" should return lots of results.
>
> 73, Mike
>
> www.w0btu.com
>
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 18, 2015 at 6:55 PM, Bill Hider <n3rr at erols.com> wrote:
>
> Do you have a part number/manufacturer for the "non-hardening silicone
> dielectric "grease"?
>
>
>
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2016.0.7294 / Virus Database: 4489/11204 - Release Date: 12/18/15
>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>



-- 
Ken - K4XL
BoatAnchor Manual Archive
BAMA - http://bama.edebris.com

"Show me a politician who is poor, and I'll show you a poor
politician." - Carlos
Hank Gonz?lez

From breedenwb at cableone.net  Sat Dec 19 12:49:16 2015
From: breedenwb at cableone.net (Bill Breeden)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2015 11:49:16 -0600
Subject: Topband: 160M Propagation
In-Reply-To: <567454F9.5060505@gmail.com>
References: <567454F9.5060505@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5675989C.3030103@cableone.net>


Dennis,

I listened to you several evenings on 160, and given the number of stations calling compared to those you could hear most evenings, I thought you might be suffering from a high noise level on receive locally.  Your ability to hear better on December 11 was quite noticeable on my end too.  I was thinking if you had been suffering from a a noise issue, you had solved it.  Glad you finally had a good evening of operation.  It was a good evening for me too.  Propagation is a subject, and an experience, that never ceases to amaze me.

Thanks and 73,

Bill - NA5DX



  Topband: 160M Propagation

*

Dennis*egan.dennis88 at 
gmail.com<mailto:topband%40contesting.com?Subject=Re%3A%20Topband%3A%20160M%20Propagation&In-Reply-To=%3C567454F9.5060505%40gmail.com%3E>
/Fri Dec 18 13:48:25 EST 2015/

  * Previous message (by thread):Topband: antenna modification
    <http://lists.contesting.com/pipermail/topband/2015-December/049049.html>
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    <http://lists.contesting.com/pipermail/topband/2015-December/049057.html>
  * *Messages sorted by:*[ date ]
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------------------------------------------------------------------------

I recently operated as CX/W1UE, from Uruguay.  I had difficulty hearing
stations on most nights,
but the night from 2200Z Thursday Dec 10 to 0600Z Friday Dec 11, I had
no trouble hearing
stations on either 160 or 80M.  I worked more stations in that 8 hour
time period that I did in
20 hours spread over 2 weeks.  I keep coming back to the same question-
why?

Since I have never operated from CX before, I have nothing to evaluate
the 2 weeks against.
Did that night have exceptional low band propagation?

For that one night, I had no problems hearing anyone, it seemed.  I
worked as far east as UA9
in Z18 on 80M,  and a dozen Europeans on 160M.  Stations that I never
heard before or after
that night.  I'm trying to figure out how I heard so well on that night,
but not on the other 10 nights
where I also tried to make 80/160M QSOs.  I can't explain it.

Dennis CX/W1UE now just W1UE.




From rkolarik at neb.rr.com  Sat Dec 19 13:07:22 2015
From: rkolarik at neb.rr.com (Ron Kolarik)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2015 12:07:22 -0600
Subject: Topband: Weatherproofing F-type connectors
Message-ID: <56759CDA.4010706@neb.rr.com>

If you plan on doing a lot of the "F" connectors get a proper torque 
wrench along
with the prep tools. PPC connectors, rubber boots for the female side 
and silicone
grease are all good. Search for "F connector torque wrench" will get you 
some good
click types and you don't have to spend a bunch on the pro tools.

Ron K0IDT


From mstangelo at comcast.net  Sat Dec 19 13:08:48 2015
From: mstangelo at comcast.net (Michael St. Angelo)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2015 13:08:48 -0500
Subject: Topband: F-type connectors transmitting question
Message-ID: <023f01d13a88$4f1e8ae0$ed5ba0a0$@comcast.net>


I acquired some Commsphere Flooded F-11 type coax. I installed compression
Type UHF connectors on the coax. I solder the copperclad center conductor to
the center pin. The shield braid is connected via compression.

The UHF connectors are working but I am concerned about the reliability
because the shield braid has about 50% coverage. I'd like to try F type
connectors. Will the smaller center conductor pin of the F type connector
handle power when transmitting? I presently use 100 watts but may use an amp
in the future.

Mike N2MS



From adkmurray at yahoo.com  Sat Dec 19 14:16:09 2015
From: adkmurray at yahoo.com (Jim Murray)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2015 19:16:09 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Topband: Topband SB-1000
References: <890106406.1172092.1450552569810.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <890106406.1172092.1450552569810.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>


"It might be something else, but? I would bet the contact on the 160 padding?
capacitor is burned off. This is what the anti-corona washer reduced. Heath?
did not use that washer.

It arcs there when the loading cap is too far closed (too much grid current)?
for the amount of drive on higher bands, or if the antenna should become?
grossly mismatched when at high power on bands other than 160.? The worse?
band for arcing the 160 padding contact is when on 80 meters."

Had a chance to do some eye ball/continuity checks today. ?All contacts on bandswitch check out ok. ?Except,?on the last wafer towards the rear one of the lugs that hits on 160 only position has nothing on it. ?Some solder but nothing connected. ?Contacts ok etc. but nothing soldered to the lug in that position. ?Is this possibly where a capacitor once lived? ?I have the schematics and diagrams and will have to go over all the wiring. ?One other oddity I see is that there is a black wire coming out of the enclosure in front of the bandswitch that is folded over and not connected to anything. ?Appears to have been at one time connected to a ground lug at the plate variable cap fixture on the front panel.Thanks,jimk2hn ?

From adkmurray at yahoo.com  Sat Dec 19 14:27:23 2015
From: adkmurray at yahoo.com (Jim Murray)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2015 19:27:23 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Topband: SB-1000
References: <1339972487.1185329.1450553243387.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1339972487.1185329.1450553243387.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

My mistake on the last post. ?The contact with nothing on it is when the bandswitch is in the 160 AND 80M position. ?jimk2hn

From adkmurray at yahoo.com  Sat Dec 19 15:00:11 2015
From: adkmurray at yahoo.com (Jim Murray)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2015 20:00:11 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Topband: SB-1000
References: <431996415.1201417.1450555211949.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <431996415.1201417.1450555211949.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

Ah, quick look at the schematic. ?Nothing on that bandswitch lug. ?Seeing some solder on it thought for sure something missing. ?Black ungrounded wire- schematic shows it grounded although just doubled over. ?I will go over it thoroughly before taking up any more space on the forum.?Regards,jim/k2hn

From n5kilomike at gmail.com  Sat Dec 19 18:47:19 2015
From: n5kilomike at gmail.com (Kris Mraz)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2015 17:47:19 -0600
Subject: Topband: Weatherproofing F-type connectors
Message-ID: <CAL386nkawunP3S-i+m10NdCcoujn7ZTEa7KJfx1y8Ojj_wcqew@mail.gmail.com>

Tom, W8JI, has some good info on the proper use of silicone grease on
his website:

www.w8ji.com/dielectric_grease_vs_conductive_grease.htm

Kris N5KM

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
On Fri, 18 Dec 2015 18:33:50 -0600 Mike Waters <mikewate at gmail.com> wrote

O-rings are good. :-)

However, even if we use good waterproof F connectors with O-rings,
condensation --followed by corrosion-- can still occur when the outside
temperature drops.

For that reason, applying a sufficient amount of non-hardening silicone
dielectric "grease" to the center conductor *is still important*. It fills
the voids and excludes air (which will contain moisture) from the assembled
connector.

And if we run the legal limit through F connectors (which I and other hams
have done for years), silicone dielectric compound can help prevent arcing
inside the F connector.

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com

From ajamas.rn at gmail.com  Sat Dec 19 19:04:52 2015
From: ajamas.rn at gmail.com (Katz Ajamas)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2015 19:04:52 -0500
Subject: Topband: Silicone grease.
Message-ID: <CA+kZa5pXJ=K=53YB7TaWxEG3-ZNxJiKrKEsq2HYrX0U=LqJA8A@mail.gmail.com>

I like this stuff. It's thick. It doesn't melt and run out. Use it with
high voltage connectors and outdoor coax connectors.
73, bob ah7i


http://www.ellsworth.com/products/by-market/consumer-products/lubricant-products/grease/dow-corning-high-vacuum-grease-clear-150-g-tube/

From runeegil at hotmail.com  Sun Dec 20 02:46:52 2015
From: runeegil at hotmail.com (=?iso-8859-1?B?UnVuZSDYeWU=?=)
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2015 07:46:52 +0000
Subject: Topband: DX Engineering NCC-1 phase controller
Message-ID: <DUB126-W5536C4D2BD38FC3E668CB1C4E30@phx.gbl>


Hi all, i have just received my christmas gift from the "princses" a NCC-1 from Dx Engeneering. My plan is to use this with my SAL30  RX array on antenna port A and a single "noise antenna" on port B. My plan is to make the noise antenna from a single wire. How much of an "noise antenna" is needed to get enough signal. I dont have any receiver amplifier available. Would a single vertical wire of approx 25 foot be good enought.What about front end protection?. When i use the "TX to GND" function on the NCC-1, is that suffisient ?. Running 1KW from my Acom 2000 and TX antenna is located in a distance of approx 1/2 wave lenght. My 80 meter inv V dipol antenna will be located approx 100 feet from any of the RX antennas. The NCC-1 is expencive so i am a bit parranoid and would hope it last for more than a day :-)  
73 Rune LA7THA 

 		 	   		  

From richard at karlquist.com  Sun Dec 20 11:09:43 2015
From: richard at karlquist.com (Richard (Rick) Karlquist)
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2015 08:09:43 -0800
Subject: Topband: DX Engineering NCC-1 phase controller
In-Reply-To: <DUB126-W5536C4D2BD38FC3E668CB1C4E30@phx.gbl>
References: <DUB126-W5536C4D2BD38FC3E668CB1C4E30@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <5676D2C7.3050306@karlquist.com>



On 12/19/2015 11:46 PM, Rune ?ye wrote:
>  a NCC-1 from Dx Engeneering. My plan is to use this
  with my SAL30  RX array on antenna port A and

> 73 Rune LA7THA

This isn't an answer to your question, but a
more straightforward way to accomplish what I
think you are trying to do would be to make an
array of two loops, where the azimuth of the
individual loops can be chosen so that they
null out the single point noise source that
you are trying to null out with the NCC-1.
The azimuth of the array can then be chosen
to enhance in the direction of the signal you
want to receive.  IOW, the orientation of
the loops is independent of the orientation
of the array.

The trouble with the SAL is that the null
of the loops is always at a 90 degree angle
to the angle of reception.  You can't choose
the angle.  The other trouble with the SAL
is that the spacing between the loops is
always very small, and you can't choose that
either.  If you increase the spacing, it
isn't a SAL any more, it's just ordinary loops
in phase.

Rick N6RK

From Carl.Braun at lairdtech.com  Sun Dec 20 14:10:39 2015
From: Carl.Braun at lairdtech.com (Carl Braun)
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2015 19:10:39 +0000
Subject: Topband: Detuning a nearby Tower
Message-ID: <F69DC02DDFCD7A4E84A9C7BE874B774001FC0AAE4A@USDC01MBX01.corp.lairdtech.com>

Hello Topbanders

I have a two element array 1/8wl away from my 90' Skyneedle tower with Telrex yagi atop.  I want to electrically isolate this tower from the array by dropping a shunt wire from near the top of the tower down to the panel where I have an MFJ model 931 artificial ground (input) that then connects to my earth ground.  Tuning the 931 to eliminate the RF field strength induced from the array results in an invisible tower to the array...in theory.

In the past, I have used a similar method to shunt feed the tower on 160 ala vacuum variable tuning and radials.  When I tapped the tower I found a sweet spot at the ~70' level on the skyneedle that provided a fairly good 42 ohm match and, once tuned, it worked pretty well on TX.

Here is the concern...I would prefer to use this same tap point for my detuning experiment as it seems to make sense that the same point would induce the max coupling from the array...or at least be a good starting point.  ON4UN and others have implied that, when detuning a tower, you should tap it at the TOP of the tower structure and not ? of the way down from the top like I's considering.

Should I just run the 3' gamma arm off of the very TOP of the tower at the 90' level then down or am I better off tapping the gamma arm at the 67' level as I did when I shunt fed the tower for TX on 160?

Comments?

Carl


From adkmurray at yahoo.com  Sun Dec 20 16:38:15 2015
From: adkmurray at yahoo.com (Jim Murray)
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2015 21:38:15 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Topband: SB-1000
References: <330624131.1466732.1450647495621.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <330624131.1466732.1450647495621.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>


After a pretty thorough check on the ailing 160M section this what I have in mind and would appreciate any further suggestions. ?All previous owner wiring is ok. ?One missing connection is 10M mod.?160M Padding cap (170pf, 7500V doorknob) is shot. ?Band switch appears to be still usable, no damage to contacts etc. Idea now is to replace the cap (with "corona washer") or good mica cap, new style parasitic suppressor, new (al-80a) plate choke and give it a whirl.

Regards,jim/k2hn?

From n5kilomike at gmail.com  Sun Dec 20 16:49:36 2015
From: n5kilomike at gmail.com (Kris Mraz)
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2015 15:49:36 -0600
Subject: Topband: DX Engineering NCC-1 phase controller
Message-ID: <CAL386nnos-11L=5NhB0B42CF81=F8hCveFGGtzcEBoyc6m2Nyw@mail.gmail.com>

I use the MFJ-1025 (similar to the NCC-1) with my SAL-20. In my case I use my
TX antenna as the sense input. My xcvr (FTdx5000) internally feeds the
TX antenna to an
output connector while in receive. So I just feed that signal to the
MFJ-1025. Works
great on local powerline buzz as well as switching PS noise that may drift into
my receive BW. On 80m my TX antenna is a 4sq and on 160m it's a vertical.

Re: SAL pattern. The null is at 180 degrees if you have the delay line
and couplers
configured right. See the users manual and 4nec2 model. But this is
more appropriate
fodder for the sharedapexloop yahoo forum.

73,
Kris N5KM


-------------------------- original message
----------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2015 08:09:43 -0800
From: "Richard (Rick) Karlquist" <richard at karlquist.com>
To: Rune ?ye <runeegil at hotmail.com>,    "topband at contesting.com"
        <topband at contesting.com>
Subject: Re: Topband: DX Engineering NCC-1 phase controller
Message-ID: <5676D2C7.3050306 at karlquist.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed



On 12/19/2015 11:46 PM, Rune ?ye wrote:
>  a NCC-1 from Dx Engeneering. My plan is to use this
  with my SAL30  RX array on antenna port A and

> 73 Rune LA7THA

This isn't an answer to your question, but a
more straightforward way to accomplish what I
think you are trying to do would be to make an
array of two loops, where the azimuth of the
individual loops can be chosen so that they
null out the single point noise source that
you are trying to null out with the NCC-1.
The azimuth of the array can then be chosen
to enhance in the direction of the signal you
want to receive.  IOW, the orientation of
the loops is independent of the orientation
of the array.

The trouble with the SAL is that the null
of the loops is always at a 90 degree angle
to the angle of reception.  You can't choose
the angle.  The other trouble with the SAL
is that the spacing between the loops is
always very small, and you can't choose that
either.  If you increase the spacing, it
isn't a SAL any more, it's just ordinary loops
in phase.

Rick N6RK

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From mstangelo at comcast.net  Sun Dec 20 20:22:39 2015
From: mstangelo at comcast.net (mstangelo at comcast.net)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2015 01:22:39 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Topband: F-type connectors transmitting question
In-Reply-To: <D9C073FAC1114F3BB1C32CD8D3E49322@MAIN>
References: <023f01d13a88$4f1e8ae0$ed5ba0a0$@comcast.net>
	<D9C073FAC1114F3BB1C32CD8D3E49322@MAIN>
Message-ID: <1764194563.3972887.1450660959669.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net>

Gary, Tom,

Thanks for the information. I will stick with the compression UHF connectors.

Mike N2MS
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom W8JI <w8ji at w8ji.com>
To: Michael St. Angelo <mstangelo at comcast.net>
Sent: Sun, 20 Dec 2015 00:22:21 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: Re: Topband: F-type connectors transmitting question

F11 will handle at least 3 kW outside in the air.

Don't worry about the braid. The foil plus braid is good enough. You'll 
never notice any radiation from it.



From mikewate at gmail.com  Sun Dec 20 20:32:31 2015
From: mikewate at gmail.com (Mike Waters)
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2015 19:32:31 -0600
Subject: Topband: F-type connectors transmitting question
In-Reply-To: <023f01d13a88$4f1e8ae0$ed5ba0a0$@comcast.net>
References: <023f01d13a88$4f1e8ae0$ed5ba0a0$@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <CA+FxYXhhmah4sbNxZdAGJ7L2EoHfd2P5JVBUFVuzabJOA70h+g@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Dec 19, 2015 at 12:08 PM, Michael St. Angelo <mstangelo at comcast.net>
wrote:

>  I'd like to try F type connectors. Will the smaller center conductor pin
> of the F type connector handle power when transmitting?
>

I'll just answer this part of your question: YES. It will likely handle
whatever the coax is rated for. I have never had a problem running 1500
watts through an F connector. They don't even get warm.

A UHF connector will handle at least 10 kW.

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com

From w4zyt.don at gmail.com  Mon Dec 21 07:34:16 2015
From: w4zyt.don at gmail.com (Don Lynch)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2015 12:34:16 +0000
Subject: Topband: SB-1000
In-Reply-To: <330624131.1466732.1450647495621.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <330624131.1466732.1450647495621.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<330624131.1466732.1450647495621.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CABWcA=w=VvxH=rMXYMixML4nZMs+HPQWXWfjByyNYYf=8_4rbA@mail.gmail.com>

Well, I'm glad it wasn't the switch, as that would be a bear to fix.
Hopefully the capacitor will resolve your issue.  Then you can join us on
160 and listen to the awful conditions :o)

Happy holidays and a safe, healthy, and productive new year!

Vy 73,

Don W4ZYT
<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
This
email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast.
www.avast.com
<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
<#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

On Sun, Dec 20, 2015 at 9:38 PM, Jim Murray via Topband <
topband at contesting.com> wrote:

>
> After a pretty thorough check on the ailing 160M section this what I have
> in mind and would appreciate any further suggestions.  All previous owner
> wiring is ok.  One missing connection is 10M mod. 160M Padding cap (170pf,
> 7500V doorknob) is shot.  Band switch appears to be still usable, no damage
> to contacts etc. Idea now is to replace the cap (with "corona washer") or
> good mica cap, new style parasitic suppressor, new (al-80a) plate choke and
> give it a whirl.
>
> Regards,jim/k2hn
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband




-- 
Don Lynch MD W4ZYT - EI2IM, 5Z4ZK
Virginia Beach, Virginia
ARRL - IRTS - ARSK - Virginia DXCC - PVRC
FOC 1700  -  RNARS 4473  -  FISTS 3381  -  CWOPS 55
w4zyt.don at gmail.com
==
Donald F. Lynch, Jr., MD, FACS
Emeritus Professor of Urology
Eastern Virginia School of Medicine
Norfolk, Virginia, USA

From tshoppa at gmail.com  Mon Dec 21 08:30:32 2015
From: tshoppa at gmail.com (Tim Shoppa)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2015 08:30:32 -0500
Subject: Topband: SB-1000
In-Reply-To: <330624131.1466732.1450647495621.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <330624131.1466732.1450647495621.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<330624131.1466732.1450647495621.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAJ_qRvZELnsOCYGLSBm8ng9_vJ1LYTOjHvW6yhgYe4cmcbU01A@mail.gmail.com>

Jim -
  I recently had the failure of a 170pF doorknob in an Ameritron AL-1500
160M padding section. Replacements readily available:
http://www.ameritron.com/Product.php?productid=290-0170-7

  I believe Surplus Sales of Nebraska and RF Parts also sell the HEC
doorknobs. 170pF sure seems to be a "sweet spot" value from its wide use
and availability.

Tim N3QE

On Sun, Dec 20, 2015 at 4:38 PM, Jim Murray via Topband <
topband at contesting.com> wrote:

>
> After a pretty thorough check on the ailing 160M section this what I have
> in mind and would appreciate any further suggestions.  All previous owner
> wiring is ok.  One missing connection is 10M mod. 160M Padding cap (170pf,
> 7500V doorknob) is shot.  Band switch appears to be still usable, no damage
> to contacts etc. Idea now is to replace the cap (with "corona washer") or
> good mica cap, new style parasitic suppressor, new (al-80a) plate choke and
> give it a whirl.
>
> Regards,jim/k2hn
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

From herbert.schoenbohm at gmail.com  Mon Dec 21 08:30:55 2015
From: herbert.schoenbohm at gmail.com (Herbert Schoenbohm)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2015 09:30:55 -0400
Subject: Topband: SB-1000
In-Reply-To: <1450703862109.1941281722@boxbe>
References: <330624131.1466732.1450647495621.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<330624131.1466732.1450647495621.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1450703862109.1941281722@boxbe>
Message-ID: <5677FF0F.5000902@gmail.com>

If you can't find the exact value of 170pf  the ceramic 5KV door knobs 
at 200pf will work.  Better yet even a couple of 500pf door knobs in 
series will give you 250 pf which will just mean a little less on your 
variable will tune.  Another common ceramic door knob value is 500pf and 
three in series will put you in the ball park. Also RKR Designs 
(formerly Alpha of RF Concepts) has a little "blue" 170 pf at 15KV that 
is off the shelf and is the exact value.  R.L. Drake used a double sided 
copper clad board to make 160 tuning capacitors for their L7 and also 
for their ATU.  This could be an easy DIY project  and I have seen this 
method instructions posted on the web somewhere.


Herb Schoenbohm, KV4FZ

On 12/21/2015 8:34 AM, Don Lynch wrote:
> One missing connection is 10M mod. 160M Padding cap (170pf,
> >7500V doorknob) is shot.


From w8ji at w8ji.com  Mon Dec 21 09:21:28 2015
From: w8ji at w8ji.com (Tom W8JI)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2015 09:21:28 -0500
Subject: Topband: SB-1000
References: <330624131.1466732.1450647495621.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com><330624131.1466732.1450647495621.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com><1450703862109.1941281722@boxbe>
	<5677FF0F.5000902@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FE4DC143E20B4205AC79CEAB0BE4CD36@MAIN>



> If you can't find the exact value of 170pf  the ceramic 5KV door knobs at 
> 200pf will work.  Better yet even a couple of 500pf door knobs in series 
> will give you 250 pf which will just mean a little less on your variable 
> will tune.  Another common ceramic door knob value is 500pf and three in 
> series will put you in the ball park.

NO.

170 pF was used because at 200 pF the capacitor breaks over into a different 
temperature coefficient. You will go from a N750 or so TC to up near or 
above N2000.

This will make the tuning drift with temperature.

Use the original part or parallel smaller values with the same or lower 
TC's. Also be ware the number on the case is often not met. Sometimes the 
caps cannot meet the stamped TC numbers. This is because the clay formula 
used is difficult to make temperture stable.

Just buy the correct part.


From herbs at vitelcom.net  Mon Dec 21 10:26:44 2015
From: herbs at vitelcom.net (Herbert Schoenbohm)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2015 11:26:44 -0400
Subject: Topband: SB-1000
In-Reply-To: <FE4DC143E20B4205AC79CEAB0BE4CD36@MAIN>
References: <330624131.1466732.1450647495621.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<330624131.1466732.1450647495621.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1450703862109.1941281722@boxbe> <5677FF0F.5000902@gmail.com>
	<FE4DC143E20B4205AC79CEAB0BE4CD36@MAIN>
Message-ID: <56781A34.9010206@vitelcom.net>

Tom is correct as usual but if you want to get the rig working for the 
Stew coming up a junk box substitute may get you on the air until the 
exact replacement arrives.

Herb, KV4FZ

On 12/21/2015 10:21 AM, Tom W8JI wrote:
>
>
>> If you can't find the exact value of 170pf  the ceramic 5KV door 
>> knobs at 200pf will work.  Better yet even a couple of 500pf door 
>> knobs in series will give you 250 pf which will just mean a little 
>> less on your variable will tune.  Another common ceramic door knob 
>> value is 500pf and three in series will put you in the ball park.
>
> NO.
>
> 170 pF was used because at 200 pF the capacitor breaks over into a 
> different temperature coefficient. You will go from a N750 or so TC to 
> up near or above N2000.
>
> This will make the tuning drift with temperature.
>
> Use the original part or parallel smaller values with the same or 
> lower TC's. Also be ware the number on the case is often not met. 
> Sometimes the caps cannot meet the stamped TC numbers. This is because 
> the clay formula used is difficult to make temperture stable.
>
> Just buy the correct part.
>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


From adkmurray at yahoo.com  Mon Dec 21 12:03:42 2015
From: adkmurray at yahoo.com (Jim Murray)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2015 17:03:42 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Topband: SB-1000
References: <1773015022.1827438.1450717422421.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1773015022.1827438.1450717422421.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

Thanks to all for info on the capacitor. ?The only place I had checked was rf parts but have not ordered yet. ?Also wanted to come up with a #8 brass washer. ?I'll go with a new original cap from Ameritron/mfj. ?I saw the plate choke there but not the cap, will follow the link. I'll still be on 100W for a while. ?I've been hearing pretty well on beverage/Inv.L but not being heard that well on the Inv.L., ? Thanks again.
Jimk2hn

From k2owr at comcast.net  Mon Dec 21 12:47:03 2015
From: k2owr at comcast.net (K4OWR)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2015 12:47:03 -0500
Subject: Topband: SB-1000
In-Reply-To: <1773015022.1827438.1450717422421.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1773015022.1827438.1450717422421.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1773015022.1827438.1450717422421.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <56783B17.8090101@comcast.net>

:::: Just wanted to comment....Don't overlook Ebay for electronic parts 
of all sorts. I was able to replace the doorknob caps in my AL82 easily. 
BTW, keep extras on hand for 160 because you will need more eventually.
  Simply enter exactly what you're looking for and you'll be surprised 
at what is there , and for a good price. I have had terrific success 
using Ebay for lots of ham radio items with NO issues at all. They have 
become extremely strict about monitoring the vendors, who will go to 
amazing lengths to make you satisfied.

On 12/21/2015 12:03 PM, Jim Murray via Topband wrote:
> Thanks to all for info on the capacitor.  The only place I had checked was rf parts but have not ordered yet.  Also wanted to come up with a #8 brass washer.  I'll go with a new original cap from Ameritron/mfj.  I saw the plate choke there but not the cap, will follow the link. I'll still be on 100W for a while.  I've been hearing pretty well on beverage/Inv.L but not being heard that well on the Inv.L.,   Thanks again.
> Jimk2hn
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


From ranchorobbo at gmail.com  Mon Dec 21 13:01:26 2015
From: ranchorobbo at gmail.com (Rob Atkinson)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2015 12:01:26 -0600
Subject: Topband: Doorknobs
Message-ID: <CALWD7Z6+uiY8P6zAfmwqYOBFqUm3nx-rtdpsRHb4Df9B1q=vAg@mail.gmail.com>

There are doorknobs and there are doorknobs.  Most hams know this.
But you can't always use just any class 2 RF doorknob, especially in a
critical application like a series connection between the transmitter
final and pi output tank.  Why does this matter to the 160 m.
reflector.  Because paradoxically, as you go down in frequency, the
dielectric stress increases.  A capacitor in series with RF on 160 m.
during a long continuous duty transmission (i.e. AM or RTTY) is
probably one of the toughest jobs for a doorknob.

It isn't enough to meet the voltage and capacitance value needs.   You
have to use a capacitor that has the manufacturer current carrying
data for 1000 kc available, and that current rating has to be over
what you will be needing.  In a transmitter for bypass and blocking, I
favor overkill and source doorknobs purchased new from suppliers who
provide the 1 MHz current specifications.  You want to minimize the
need to pull a chassis and get into a rig to make repairs.  Pay the
bucks, get new HECs from a place like RF Parts and call it done.  If
you have to, parallel a few to get the current capability.  Save the
hamfest doorknobs for experimenting, use in feedline matching networks
and doghouses where you can easily get to the circuit and see what's
going on and there's no high voltage around.

You don't have to use a ceramic capacitor of course.  But they are
popular because of their small size and ease of mounting.  If you have
room and the value and voltage requirement is met by an air or vacuum
capacitor, or a large cast broadcast mica, then go ahead and use it.

73
Rob
K5UJ

From w8ji at w8ji.com  Mon Dec 21 19:05:06 2015
From: w8ji at w8ji.com (Tom W8JI)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2015 19:05:06 -0500
Subject: Topband: SB-1000
References: <1773015022.1827438.1450717422421.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1773015022.1827438.1450717422421.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4145CD54F2DD412D80D5D192807A0CC2@MAIN>

> Thanks to all for info on the capacitor. The only place I had checked was 
> rf parts but have not ordered yet. Also wanted to come up with a #8 brass 
> washer. I'll go with a new original cap from Ameritron/mfj. I saw the 
> plate choke there but not the cap, will follow the link. I'll still be on 
> 100W for a while. I've been hearing pretty well on beverage/Inv.L but not 
> being heard that well on the Inv.L., Thanks again.
> Jimk2hn
> _________________

The OEM capacitor, which will be stable,  is $26.45   from Ameritron.

http://www.ameritron.com/Product.php?productid=290-0170-7

It is $29.95 from RF parts.

Both are N750 types. You need a #6 lug, a short #6 screw (3/16th long), and 
some #16 bus wire plus a brass washer that Ameritron will have.  The chokes 
come from Ameritron no matter where you buy them.

I'd just get it all from Ameritron, since they will also have the hardware 
and appear to be less expensive.

73 Tom 


From adkmurray at yahoo.com  Mon Dec 21 20:52:31 2015
From: adkmurray at yahoo.com (Jim Murray)
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2015 01:52:31 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Topband: SB-1000
References: <361223461.2056442.1450749151233.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <361223461.2056442.1450749151233.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>


Both are N750 types. You need a #6 lug, a short #6 screw (3/16th long), and?
some #16 bus wire plus a brass washer that Ameritron will have.? The chokes?
come from Ameritron no matter where you buy them.

Thanks Tom,Re. the lug, screw and wire, I'm assuming the capacitor I ordered from them will install with the lug, screw and wire that already exists? ?Didn't realize they had the washer also but will give them a call, possibly they can include it in the order. ?I did get the choke from them also. ?I also got one of F1BXL's parasitic suppressors he sells on Ebay. ?Hopefully all this will calm things down a little. ?The knowledge generously shared by folks like yourself, Jim and others on their web pages and this forum are greatly appreciated by all. ?Have a good Christmas and New Years to all.
Jimk2hn

From w8ji at w8ji.com  Mon Dec 21 21:34:06 2015
From: w8ji at w8ji.com (Tom W8JI)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2015 21:34:06 -0500
Subject: Topband: SB-1000
References: <361223461.2056442.1450749151233.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<361223461.2056442.1450749151233.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <9BCBDFE1BB444ECB94ECC14BB1C713B6@MAIN>

>
> Both are N750 types. You need a #6 lug, a short #6 screw (3/16th long), 
> and
> some #16 bus wire plus a brass washer that Ameritron will have. The chokes
> come from Ameritron no matter where you buy them.
>
> Thanks Tom,Re. the lug, screw and wire, I'm assuming the capacitor I 
> ordered from them will install with the lug, screw and wire that already 
> exists? Didn't realize they had the washer also but will give them a call, 
> possibly they can include it in the order. I did get the choke from them 
> also. I also got one of F1BXL's parasitic suppressors he sells on Ebay. 
> Hopefully all this will calm things down a little. The knowledge 
> generously shared by folks like yourself, Jim and others on their web 
> pages and this forum are greatly appreciated by all. Have a good Christmas 
> and New Years to all.
> Jimk2hn


I don't know who F1BXL is,  but parasitics have nothing to do with anything. 
I would not go sticking hairpins in there. That stuff is all heebie-jeebie 
voo doo.

The 160 tab is under the most stress when the amp operates 80 meters. There 
is almost 3kV peak across that 160 plate padding terminal to the switch 
rotor.  Every amplifier that switches a plate padding cap in has highest 
peak voltage on that tab when on 80 meters.

To reduce the electric field gradient around all the pointed areas of the 
contact, a washer is used. The washer acts just like one of those 
anti-corona rings that used to be in TV sets, or that you see on HV power 
lines. It spreads the field out, and reduces the chances of the corona 
setting off an arc when you are on 80 meters.

Voltage between the switch rotor and that contact is highly dependent on how 
you set the load control, because that sets the anode impedance. This is why 
people should **always** tune an amplifier up for maximum possible power at 
full drive and then back drive off to safe power. That reduces peak voltage.

I can, for example, make the anode of a 3-500Z reach 3 or more times the dc 
supply voltage if I underload the amp. As a matter of fact if it is severely 
underloaded, the voltage increases until something someplace absorbs the 
energy.  If it is a switch contact, then the contact goes away.

People can cast all the spells they want  with magical suppressors and, if 
the PA gets grossly underloaded for the peak drive power, something will 
arc.  That is just how these class AB amplifier systems work.

Ask Ameritron to include the parts. They do not normally come with the 
capacitor. When I released the SB1000 design to Heath, the release was real 
early in the run. I think we were at the first 100 or 200 AL80A's. That 
washer, plus a buck-boost winding to the transformer, came after Heath 
kitted the unit. What you have is a very early release of the AL80A, just 
after the AL80 was dropped. The AL80A was progressively refined until it 
couldn't be refined any more in that chassis. The next major revision was 
the AL80B, which had major changes. The AL80B remains pretty much unchanged.

73 Tom 


From w7ew at arrl.net  Tue Dec 22 00:18:46 2015
From: w7ew at arrl.net (Lew Sayre)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2015 21:18:46 -0800
Subject: Topband: The Stew Perry is Coming. Are You Ready?
Message-ID: <CAPqMs-nKgvcFnXeiMBcQTfJNWNviZi4EaJLjX-7-KenU56T63g@mail.gmail.com>

Greetings to Top Band Men, Women and undecided,
      The starting gong for the 20th Edition of The Stew Perry TopBand
DX Challenge will go off at 1500Z, Dec 26 and the ending gong will
happen at 1500Z Dec. 27. In between these times grid square gladiators
will utilize cunning, wit, resolve, Morse code and some immutable laws
of physics for 14 hours out of the 24 to joust with similar TopBand
believers
in the most unique radio contest available. Why is The Stew Perry TopBand
DX Challenge unique?  Just manipulate your monitor over to this site and
read
all about it!
 www.kkn.net/stew/
     The list below reveals available plaques and their very smart sponsors
who
have sharpened their senses and opened their pocketbooks to make available
actual wooden and metal plaques denoting categories of radio rapture that
will be awarded for certain performances during The Stew.  These sponsors
are radio stalwarts and should be accorded great respect for their
foresight.
It is never too late for you to sponsor a  plaque. Just email me with your
category, find and send $60 to us and you will have joined a very elite
group of radiowave wranglers.

KL7RA                            Top # of QSOs
North Pole Contest Group  To be decided
K7FL/5H2DA                    Top Score 100% Search & Pounce
KR2Q                              Golden Log Award
N0TT                                Top Score < 21y/o, >200 QSOs
K7CA                               Top Score China
TF3KX                              Aurora Borealis Award- Top Score North
                                       of 60 deg N geomagnetic Latitude
Dr. Beldar-L1AR                Top Score,S/O, Temp Antenna erected after
                                        Dec.14
VK6VZ- Flying Doctors of   Top Score- N. Hemisphere station working
      VK Baseball hat           S. Hemisphere stations
UX1UA                             Top # NA + SA Qs by Zone 16 station
UX1UA                              USA station with top # Qs with Zone 16
K6ND                                K6SE Memorial- Top Score World S/O
K1EP                                Top LP score between 30deg N & 40deg N
                                       lat  (any station located in xM##
gridsquare)
KH6LC                               VK/ZL Challenge- Top Score S/O, VK/ZL
N6TQ/A25TQ                     California Dreaming- Top # Qs with Calif
                                 stations by a non California station.
W2GD Team                       Top # Qs, NA/SA by European Station
W7RH                                Top Score, Low Power, Asia
K7CA                                 Top Score from Zone 24, 27 or 28
K7CA                                  Top Score from either Zone 19 or 25
FWDXA                              KL7RA Memorial- Top Score, LP, Central
                                          Division
NA0Y                                 Top Score North America
N9TF                                  Top Score, North America, S/O, QRP
Rochester DX Assoc.           Top Score,Low Power,S/O, Outside N. America
N7UA                                 Top Score High Power
Niagara Frontier Radiosport   Top Score,S/O,Low Power,Single Antenna
TF4M                                  Longest High Power QSO
N6TR                                  KL7RA Memorial- Top Score, Hi Power,
CQ Zone1

     The Boring Amateur Radio Club asks the radio combatants to be sure to
add
to their comments in their log submission what plaque or plaques they are
trying
to win. We are powerfully prescient in many areas, such as knowing that
most
plaque winners will do the majority of their operating while the sky is
dark outside.
However you will need to tell us if you have particular plaque aspirations,
     Please alert your DX friends of the many plaques available only to
selected
DX areas. Nothing like having the Plaque of the Dancing Rat on your wall to
amaze your friends and consternate your friendly competitors.
    There will be another notice to the 160M public noting even more
plaques
appearing, usually the day of The Stew Perry TopBand Dx Challenge, unless
I'm
outside repairing various wires damaged by Thor, Anemoi, Zeus or my
slightly
deranged neighbor John.  So again, it is never too late to sponsor a plaque
for
this evocative event.
     73 and I remain,
     Lew   w7ew
     Boring Amateur Radio Club Committee on Subtleties
     w7ew at arrl.net

From jim at audiosystemsgroup.com  Wed Dec 23 12:21:32 2015
From: jim at audiosystemsgroup.com (Jim Brown)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2015 09:21:32 -0800
Subject: Topband: The Stew Perry is Coming. Are You Ready?
In-Reply-To: <CAPqMs-nKgvcFnXeiMBcQTfJNWNviZi4EaJLjX-7-KenU56T63g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPqMs-nKgvcFnXeiMBcQTfJNWNviZi4EaJLjX-7-KenU56T63g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <567AD81C.7080902@audiosystemsgroup.com>

On Tue,12/22/2015 6:45 PM, Stephen Bloom wrote:
> I suspect Alaska is gonna be real rare on 160M for awhile.

Yes, but not impossible. I ran QRP for ARRL 160 and worked WL7E. It 
wasn't easy, but we made it. Rich always heard my QRP signal, usually on 
the first call. KL7KY was much tougher. Don't recall if we ever made it.

I'll be running 5W for the Stew, so everyone who works me gets the 4X 
bonus. We've been having good heavy rain this month (15 inches so far, 
more predicted before the weekend), so soil conductivity is creeping up, 
which should help my signal a bit. When propagation is good, I can work 
stations in W1/2/3/4 with good ears. VE1, VY2, PJ2, and KP4FZ are also 
in my log QRP. Nearly all of those Qs have been within an hour of 
sunrise on the east end of the QSO.

I still need VT, CT, SC, WV, MS, and KY for WAS.

73, Jim K9YC

From aa4xx at bellsouth.net  Wed Dec 23 13:14:20 2015
From: aa4xx at bellsouth.net (Paul Stroud)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2015 13:14:20 -0500
Subject: Topband: ARRL 160CW Contest QRP Portable Op
Message-ID: <567AE47C.40300@bellsouth.net>

Seeing a number of recent posts on this reflector regarding Top Band QRP,
I thought I'd share my recent QRP Top Band excursion with you.

Some of us really do take our antennas seriously.  Details at:

https://aa4xx.wordpress.com/

73, Paul   AA4XX

From k2owr at comcast.net  Wed Dec 23 13:38:38 2015
From: k2owr at comcast.net (K4OWR)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2015 13:38:38 -0500
Subject: Topband: ARRL 160CW Contest QRP Portable Op
In-Reply-To: <567AE47C.40300@bellsouth.net>
References: <567AE47C.40300@bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <567AEA2E.6060905@comcast.net>

:::: A really dedicated guy....buy he didn't really do very well in 
terms of score. "/162 contacts in the log, with 51 sections, including 8 
countries/" is terrible in any contest.
Looks like a beautiful spot, but apparently not for getting out.
BILL


On 12/23/2015 1:14 PM, Paul Stroud wrote:
> Seeing a number of recent posts on this reflector regarding Top Band QRP,
> I thought I'd share my recent QRP Top Band excursion with you.
>
> Some of us really do take our antennas seriously.  Details at:
>
> https://aa4xx.wordpress.com/
>
> 73, Paul   AA4XX
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>


From jim at audiosystemsgroup.com  Wed Dec 23 13:55:46 2015
From: jim at audiosystemsgroup.com (Jim Brown)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2015 10:55:46 -0800
Subject: Topband: ARRL 160CW Contest QRP Portable Op
In-Reply-To: <567AEA2E.6060905@comcast.net>
References: <567AE47C.40300@bellsouth.net> <567AEA2E.6060905@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <567AEE32.1060509@audiosystemsgroup.com>

On Wed,12/23/2015 10:38 AM, K4OWR wrote:
> "/162 contacts in the log, with 51 sections, including 8 countries/" 
> is terrible in any contest. 

Huh? For QRP with a completely portable operation, I'd call that pretty 
good.

The late jazz saxophonist Gene Quill was sometimes criticized for being 
a poor imitation of the great Charlie Parker. At one point, he handed 
his horn to one of those critics, saying "Here -- YOU play Charlie 
Parker solos."

73, Jim K9YC

From w5jr.lists at gmail.com  Wed Dec 23 14:54:20 2015
From: w5jr.lists at gmail.com (Mike - W5JR)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2015 14:54:20 -0500
Subject: Topband: The Stew Perry is Coming. Are You Ready?
In-Reply-To: <567AD81C.7080902@audiosystemsgroup.com>
References: <CAPqMs-nKgvcFnXeiMBcQTfJNWNviZi4EaJLjX-7-KenU56T63g@mail.gmail.com>
	<567AD81C.7080902@audiosystemsgroup.com>
Message-ID: <D2CB7932-3801-4B72-B7F5-71D06D7EE1C0@gmail.com>

I plan to also be QRP from the K4PI 160 farm. 

tnx
Mike / W5JR
Alpharetta GA

> On Dec 23, 2015, at 12:21 PM, Jim Brown <jim at audiosystemsgroup.com> wrote:
> 
>> .....snip....,
> 
> I'll be running 5W for the Stew, so everyone who works me gets the 4X bonus. 

.....snip.....

From adkmurray at yahoo.com  Wed Dec 23 14:55:19 2015
From: adkmurray at yahoo.com (Jim Murray)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2015 19:55:19 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Topband: (no subject)
References: <1365190130.3009649.1450900519876.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1365190130.3009649.1450900519876.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

Huh? For QRP with a completely portable operation, I'd call that pretty?
good.

The late jazz saxophonist Gene Quill was sometimes criticized for being?
a poor imitation of the great Charlie Parker. At one point, he handed?
his horn to one of those critics, saying "Here -- YOU play Charlie?
Parker solos."

Ditto on that. ?Gotta hand it to him. ?A for effort!
Jimk2hn

From adkmurray at yahoo.com  Wed Dec 23 14:57:29 2015
From: adkmurray at yahoo.com (Jim Murray)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2015 19:57:29 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Topband: ARRL 160CW Contest QRP Portable Op
References: <329362323.2961840.1450900649123.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <329362323.2961840.1450900649123.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

Huh? For QRP with a completely portable operation, I'd call that pretty?
good.

The late jazz saxophonist Gene Quill was sometimes criticized for being?
a poor imitation of the great Charlie Parker. At one point, he handed?
his horn to one of those critics, saying "Here -- YOU play Charlie?
Parker solos."

Ditto on that. ?Gotta hand it to him. ?A for effort!
Jimk2hn

From Gary at ka1j.com  Wed Dec 23 15:11:31 2015
From: Gary at ka1j.com (Gary Smith)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2015 15:11:31 -0500
Subject: Topband: The Stew Perry is Coming. Are You Ready?
In-Reply-To: <567AD81C.7080902@audiosystemsgroup.com>
References: <CAPqMs-nKgvcFnXeiMBcQTfJNWNviZi4EaJLjX-7-KenU56T63g@mail.gmail.com>,
	<567AD81C.7080902@audiosystemsgroup.com>
Message-ID: <567AFFF3.20515.7A7CBF2@Gary.ka1j.com>

I'm not going to be able to work the full contest but I'll be in 
there. I'll be keeping a special lookout for you, Jim. We'll get cha 
in the log, sooner or later.

73,

Gary
KA1J
CT

> On Tue,12/22/2015 6:45 PM, Stephen Bloom wrote:
> > I suspect Alaska is gonna be real rare on 160M for awhile.
> 
> Yes, but not impossible. I ran QRP for ARRL 160 and worked WL7E. It 
> wasn't easy, but we made it. Rich always heard my QRP signal, usually on 
> the first call. KL7KY was much tougher. Don't recall if we ever made it.
> 
> I'll be running 5W for the Stew, so everyone who works me gets the 4X 
> bonus. We've been having good heavy rain this month (15 inches so far, 
> more predicted before the weekend), so soil conductivity is creeping up, 
> which should help my signal a bit. When propagation is good, I can work 
> stations in W1/2/3/4 with good ears. VE1, VY2, PJ2, and KP4FZ are also 
> in my log QRP. Nearly all of those Qs have been within an hour of 
> sunrise on the east end of the QSO.
> 
> I still need VT, CT, SC, WV, MS, and KY for WAS.
> 
> 73, Jim K9YC
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> 




From Gary at ka1j.com  Wed Dec 23 15:16:14 2015
From: Gary at ka1j.com (Gary Smith)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2015 15:16:14 -0500
Subject: Topband: ARRL 160CW Contest QRP Portable Op
In-Reply-To: <567AE47C.40300@bellsouth.net>
References: <567AE47C.40300@bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <567B010E.6069.7AC1B95@Gary.ka1j.com>

Nice! That's the way to do it and have fun. Looks just perfect.

73,

Gary
KA1J

> Seeing a number of recent posts on this reflector regarding Top Band QRP,
> I thought I'd share my recent QRP Top Band excursion with you.
> 
> Some of us really do take our antennas seriously.  Details at:
> 
> https://aa4xx.wordpress.com/
> 
> 73, Paul   AA4XX
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> 




From ve9aa at nbnet.nb.ca  Wed Dec 23 17:45:31 2015
From: ve9aa at nbnet.nb.ca (Mike Smith VE9AA)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2015 18:45:31 -0400
Subject: Topband: ARRL 160CW Contest QRP Portable Op
Message-ID: <000e01d13dd3$b2263fe0$1672bfa0$@nbnet.nb.ca>

Great effort Paul and loved the writeup.  I?d say you did VERY well indeed.
I?ve done mobile in the SPTBDC contest 2 or perhaps even 3 times, usually
making only ? as many QSO?s (but running 100w) and so compared to me, you
exceled !

 

I just lost all my wire antennas here for all bands,(ice!) so not sure what
the W1BB ?test holds for me this weekend.   Maybe I?ll try to load up a
bedspring or ice-laden tree and make a few token QSO?s from here in FN66
(pronounced ?Frozen Still Sux?

 

HI !

 

Mike VE9AA

 

Mike, Coreen & Corey

Keswick Ridge, NB

 


From j_fitton at yahoo.com  Wed Dec 23 21:34:57 2015
From: j_fitton at yahoo.com (Jim F.)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2015 02:34:57 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Topband: ARRL 160CW Contest QRP Portable Op
In-Reply-To: <567AEE32.1060509@audiosystemsgroup.com>
References: <567AE47C.40300@bellsouth.net> <567AEA2E.6060905@comcast.net>
	<567AEE32.1060509@audiosystemsgroup.com>
Message-ID: <712448587.2869624.1450924497145.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

Amen brother Jim !??
Hope K4OWR catches the drift and gives it a try :-)?Jim /? W1FMR

 

      From: Jim Brown <jim at audiosystemsgroup.com>
 To: topband at contesting.com 
 Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2015 1:55 PM
 Subject: Re: Topband: ARRL 160CW Contest QRP Portable Op
   
On Wed,12/23/2015 10:38 AM, K4OWR wrote:
> "/162 contacts in the log, with 51 sections, including 8 countries/" 
> is terrible in any contest. 

Huh? For QRP with a completely portable operation, I'd call that pretty 
good.

The late jazz saxophonist Gene Quill was sometimes criticized for being 
a poor imitation of the great Charlie Parker. At one point, he handed 
his horn to one of those critics, saying "Here -- YOU play Charlie 
Parker solos."

73, Jim K9YC
_________________
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


  

From j_fitton at yahoo.com  Wed Dec 23 22:05:26 2015
From: j_fitton at yahoo.com (Jim F.)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2015 03:05:26 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Topband: The Stew Perry is Coming. Are You Ready?
In-Reply-To: <D2CB7932-3801-4B72-B7F5-71D06D7EE1C0@gmail.com>
References: <CAPqMs-nKgvcFnXeiMBcQTfJNWNviZi4EaJLjX-7-KenU56T63g@mail.gmail.com>
	<567AD81C.7080902@audiosystemsgroup.com>
	<D2CB7932-3801-4B72-B7F5-71D06D7EE1C0@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <869284585.2891519.1450926326813.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

W1FMR will be QRP from this condo (double handicap) which gets 4X bonus points 
(but really should be worth x8, or more? :-)
Good Luck all,
Jim / W1FMR?? NH

 

      From: Mike - W5JR <w5jr.lists at gmail.com>
 To: topband at contesting.com 
 Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2015 2:54 PM
 Subject: Re: Topband: The Stew Perry is Coming. Are You Ready?
   
I plan to also be QRP from the K4PI 160 farm. 

tnx
Mike / W5JR
Alpharetta GA

> On Dec 23, 2015, at 12:21 PM, Jim Brown <jim at audiosystemsgroup.com> wrote:
> 
>> .....snip....,
> 
> I'll be running 5W for the Stew, so everyone who works me gets the 4X bonus. 

.....snip.....
_________________
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


  

From w7dra at juno.com  Thu Dec 24 02:14:26 2015
From: w7dra at juno.com (w7dra at juno.com)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2015 23:14:26 -0800
Subject: Topband: The Stew Perry is Coming. Are You Ready?
Message-ID: <AABMHZG7BAX25QBA@smtpout04.vgs.untd.com>

after working defiantly on my hallicrafters S40 roofing filter and
reducing my 807 power supply down to 230 volts, instead of being home in
the noted pacific northwest 160 meter contest super station, i will be
portable in Aberdeen WA while doing Christmas with my daughter's family.

but never fear!!

 i will bring my NC125 and 6AU6/5763 5 watt rockbound transmitter and a
piece of wire to put in their tree 

now i got to find out what grid square Aberdeen WA is in

mike w7dra/7

what? you didn't know S40s have a roofing filter?

____________________________________________________________
Having 1 Of These 7 Credit Cards Means You Have ...
These responses are not provided or commissioned by the credit card issuer. ...
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/567b9ba2548741ba12eddst04vuc

From k2owr at comcast.net  Thu Dec 24 08:14:36 2015
From: k2owr at comcast.net (K4OWR)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2015 08:14:36 -0500
Subject: Topband: ARRL 160CW Contest QRP Portable Op
In-Reply-To: <712448587.2869624.1450924497145.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <567AE47C.40300@bellsouth.net> <567AEA2E.6060905@comcast.net>
	<567AEE32.1060509@audiosystemsgroup.com>
	<712448587.2869624.1450924497145.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <567BEFBC.3050700@comcast.net>

:::: I will indeed be in there trying out all my new CW interface 
goodies. I have not really operated CW in a contest in many years.
BTW FYI in the CQ 160 contest last year, In 9 hours I made 972 contacts 
in all 48 states plus 12 countries :-) :-) For first in TN and 17th. in 
country. All on phone.
I did run full power though. One of these days I may try qrp just to 
punish myself.
BILL K4OWR

On 12/23/2015 9:34 PM, Jim F. via Topband wrote:
> Amen brother Jim !
> Hope K4OWR catches the drift and gives it a try :-) Jim /  W1FMR
>
>   
>
>        From: Jim Brown <jim at audiosystemsgroup.com>
>   To: topband at contesting.com
>   Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2015 1:55 PM
>   Subject: Re: Topband: ARRL 160CW Contest QRP Portable Op
>     
> On Wed,12/23/2015 10:38 AM, K4OWR wrote:
>> "/162 contacts in the log, with 51 sections, including 8 countries/"
>> is terrible in any contest.
> Huh? For QRP with a completely portable operation, I'd call that pretty
> good.
>
> The late jazz saxophonist Gene Quill was sometimes criticized for being
> a poor imitation of the great Charlie Parker. At one point, he handed
> his horn to one of those critics, saying "Here -- YOU play Charlie
> Parker solos."
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
>
>    
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


From erusst at yahoo.com  Thu Dec 24 10:56:36 2015
From: erusst at yahoo.com (Russ Tobolic)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2015 15:56:36 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Topband: Fw:  The Stew Perry is Coming. Are You Ready?
In-Reply-To: <869284585.2891519.1450926326813.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <869284585.2891519.1450926326813.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1070550042.3239615.1450972597021.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

I'll be QRP also from MI, passing out 4X points. ?Although..... I'm a year older and don't think I can stay up as long as last year.
Russ, N3COEN72
 

     ----- Forwarded Message -----
 From: Jim F. via Topband <topband at contesting.com>
 To: Mike - W5JR <w5jr.lists at gmail.com>; "topband at contesting.com" <topband at contesting.com> 
 Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2015 10:05 PM
 Subject: Re: Topband: The Stew Perry is Coming. Are You Ready?
   
W1FMR will be QRP from this condo (double handicap) which gets 4X bonus points 
(but really should be worth x8, or more? :-)
Good Luck all,
Jim / W1FMR?? NH

 

? ? ? From: Mike - W5JR <w5jr.lists at gmail.com>
 To: topband at contesting.com 
 Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2015 2:54 PM
 Subject: Re: Topband: The Stew Perry is Coming. Are You Ready?
? 
I plan to also be QRP from the K4PI 160 farm. 

tnx
Mike / W5JR
Alpharetta GA

> On Dec 23, 2015, at 12:21 PM, Jim Brown <jim at audiosystemsgroup.com> wrote:
> 
>> .....snip....,
> 
> I'll be running 5W for the Stew, so everyone who works me gets the 4X bonus. 

.....snip.....
_________________
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


? 
_________________
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

  

From j_fitton at yahoo.com  Thu Dec 24 13:03:13 2015
From: j_fitton at yahoo.com (Jim F.)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2015 18:03:13 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Topband: QRPers calling CQ in the SP ?
References: <1659354009.3087061.1450980193886.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1659354009.3087061.1450980193886.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

It is very difficult for me to work other QRP stations because of a 
strong reluctance to call CQ with such a weak signal.
Will try to make an attempt this year on the hour around the QRPwatering hole. (QRPers know where that is ! )

73,
 
 Jim / W1FMR

From ve9aa at nbnet.nb.ca  Thu Dec 24 13:09:57 2015
From: ve9aa at nbnet.nb.ca (Mike Smith VE9AA)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2015 14:09:57 -0400
Subject: Topband: Stew Perry Plaque - THANKS!
Message-ID: <000501d13e76$5d08dce0$171a96a0$@nbnet.nb.ca>

Thanks very much to Thor TF4M for sponsoring the "Top Score Mobile" 2014
plaque and to Lew, Tree and others behind the scenes to get it here.  It
arrived just an hour  ago.

 

I am not sure what to do this year, as there is no mobile plaque to chase
and my 160m inverted L (and most of my other antennas) were blown apart a
week ago due to an ice storm. (10k were w/o power for ~2 days around here)

 

Maybe I should chase the "..Dr. Beldar - L1AR         Top Score - S/O - Temp
antenna, Erected > Dec 14th." plaque?

 

In any case, thanks very much to all involved.   The wind has been taken out
of my sails due to the antenna losses, (and I've kinda lost motivation)
however if I can load something up, I'll at least put in a token effort to
remember ol' Stew W1BB from years gone by.  I always loved that magazine
photo of his car with giant mobile antenna loading coil on the trunk of his
car.

 

73 de Mike VE9AA FN66...often mobile

 

 

 

Mike, Coreen & Corey

Keswick Ridge, NB

 


From jim at audiosystemsgroup.com  Thu Dec 24 13:19:43 2015
From: jim at audiosystemsgroup.com (Jim Brown)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2015 10:19:43 -0800
Subject: Topband: QRPers calling CQ in the SP ?
In-Reply-To: <1659354009.3087061.1450980193886.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1659354009.3087061.1450980193886.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1659354009.3087061.1450980193886.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <567C373F.4090102@audiosystemsgroup.com>

On Thu,12/24/2015 10:03 AM, Jim F. via Topband wrote:
> Will try to make an attempt this year on the hour around the QRPwatering hole. (QRPers know where that is ! )

I don't. And why conceal it?

73, Jim K9YC

From jh-mty at sbcglobal.net  Thu Dec 24 13:23:35 2015
From: jh-mty at sbcglobal.net (jh-mty at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2015 18:23:35 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Topband: QRPers calling CQ in the SP ?
In-Reply-To: <567C373F.4090102@audiosystemsgroup.com>
References: <567C373F.4090102@audiosystemsgroup.com>
Message-ID: <845894847.2533072.1450981415661.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

Me neither. ?And Jim B is a QRPer (howdy from PG, Jim), so pray-tell....de W6UQZ
 

      From: Jim Brown <jim at audiosystemsgroup.com>
 To: topband at contesting.com 
 Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2015 10:19 AM
 Subject: Re: Topband: QRPers calling CQ in the SP ?
   
On Thu,12/24/2015 10:03 AM, Jim F. via Topband wrote:
> Will try to make an attempt this year on the hour around the QRPwatering hole. (QRPers know where that is ! )

I don't. And why conceal it?

73, Jim K9YC
_________________
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


  

From barry.n1eu at gmail.com  Thu Dec 24 13:31:03 2015
From: barry.n1eu at gmail.com (Barry N1EU)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2015 13:31:03 -0500
Subject: Topband: QRPers calling CQ in the SP ?
In-Reply-To: <845894847.2533072.1450981415661.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <567C373F.4090102@audiosystemsgroup.com>
	<845894847.2533072.1450981415661.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAFmfzDsFqzk66C=zSn+kwZbxRumE0+bWfxmf1dG=zqYixywaZQ@mail.gmail.com>

Rumor says that it's 1810KHz but I don't really see it being relevant in
TBDC

73, Barry N1EU

On Thu, Dec 24, 2015 at 1:23 PM, jh-mty at sbcglobal.net <jh-mty at sbcglobal.net>
wrote:

> Me neither.  And Jim B is a QRPer (howdy from PG, Jim), so pray-tell....de
> W6UQZ
>
>
>       From: Jim Brown <jim at audiosystemsgroup.com>
>  To: topband at contesting.com
>  Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2015 10:19 AM
>  Subject: Re: Topband: QRPers calling CQ in the SP ?
>
> On Thu,12/24/2015 10:03 AM, Jim F. via Topband wrote:
> > Will try to make an attempt this year on the hour around the QRPwatering
> hole. (QRPers know where that is ! )
>
> I don't. And why conceal it?
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
>
>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>

From j_fitton at yahoo.com  Thu Dec 24 13:39:45 2015
From: j_fitton at yahoo.com (Jim F.)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2015 18:39:45 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Topband: QRPers calling CQ in the SP ?
In-Reply-To: <567C373F.4090102@audiosystemsgroup.com>
References: <567C373F.4090102@audiosystemsgroup.com>
Message-ID: <794222312.3013958.1450982385800.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

Guess that I didn't mention the QRP frequencies because of wanting to 
avoid a firestorm of criticism? :-)?? But since Jim, K9YC asked... I know 
it is OK !

1.810 MHz is universally recognized as the QRP CW calling frequencyand 1.910 for SSB.
72,? (Happy QRPing)?Jim / W1FMR? NH

 

      From: Jim Brown <jim at audiosystemsgroup.com>
 To: topband at contesting.com 
 Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2015 1:19 PM
 Subject: Re: Topband: QRPers calling CQ in the SP ?
   
On Thu,12/24/2015 10:03 AM, Jim F. via Topband wrote:
> Will try to make an attempt this year on the hour around the QRPwatering hole. (QRPers know where that is ! )

I don't. And why conceal it?

73, Jim K9YC
_________________
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


  

From jh-mty at sbcglobal.net  Thu Dec 24 13:47:10 2015
From: jh-mty at sbcglobal.net (jh-mty at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2015 18:47:10 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Topband: QRPers calling CQ in the SP ?
In-Reply-To: <CAFmfzDsFqzk66C=zSn+kwZbxRumE0+bWfxmf1dG=zqYixywaZQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFmfzDsFqzk66C=zSn+kwZbxRumE0+bWfxmf1dG=zqYixywaZQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <750734108.2578599.1450982830093.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

Well, it is---in that you don't want to be the 1.5KW elephant calling on top of it if you can help it :) ?MX es HNY, John W6UQZ
 
      From: Barry N1EU <barry.n1eu at gmail.com>
 To: "topband at contesting.com" <topband at contesting.com> 
 Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2015 10:31 AM
 Subject: Re: Topband: QRPers calling CQ in the SP ?
   
Rumor says that it's 1810KHz but I don't really see it being relevant in
TBDC

73, Barry N1EU

On Thu, Dec 24, 2015 at 1:23 PM, jh-mty at sbcglobal.net <jh-mty at sbcglobal.net>
wrote:

> Me neither.? And Jim B is a QRPer (howdy from PG, Jim), so pray-tell....de
> W6UQZ
>
>
>? ? ? From: Jim Brown <jim at audiosystemsgroup.com>
>? To: topband at contesting.com
>? Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2015 10:19 AM
>? Subject: Re: Topband: QRPers calling CQ in the SP ?
>
> On Thu,12/24/2015 10:03 AM, Jim F. via Topband wrote:
> > Will try to make an attempt this year on the hour around the QRPwatering
> hole. (QRPers know where that is ! )
>
> I don't. And why conceal it?
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
>
>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
_________________
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


  

From w8wej at citynet.net  Thu Dec 24 14:25:05 2015
From: w8wej at citynet.net (john)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2015 19:25:05 +0000
Subject: Topband: QRPers calling CQ in the SP ?
In-Reply-To: <794222312.3013958.1450982385800.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <567C373F.4090102@audiosystemsgroup.com>
	<794222312.3013958.1450982385800.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <567C4691.2000008@citynet.net>

1910 sounds good real good---gl john w8wej

On 12/24/2015 6:39 PM, Jim F. via Topband wrote:
> Guess that I didn't mention the QRP frequencies because of wanting to
> avoid a firestorm of criticism  :-)   But since Jim, K9YC asked... I know
> it is OK !
>
> 1.810 MHz is universally recognized as the QRP CW calling frequencyand 1.910 for SSB.
> 72,  (Happy QRPing) Jim / W1FMR  NH
>
>   
>
>        From: Jim Brown <jim at audiosystemsgroup.com>
>   To: topband at contesting.com
>   Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2015 1:19 PM
>   Subject: Re: Topband: QRPers calling CQ in the SP ?
>     
> On Thu,12/24/2015 10:03 AM, Jim F. via Topband wrote:
>> Will try to make an attempt this year on the hour around the QRPwatering hole. (QRPers know where that is ! )
> I don't. And why conceal it?
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
>
>    
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


From herbs at vitelcom.net  Thu Dec 24 14:42:37 2015
From: herbs at vitelcom.net (Herbert Schoenbohm)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2015 15:42:37 -0400
Subject: Topband: QRPers calling CQ in the SP ?
In-Reply-To: <CAFmfzDsFqzk66C=zSn+kwZbxRumE0+bWfxmf1dG=zqYixywaZQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <567C373F.4090102@audiosystemsgroup.com>
	<845894847.2533072.1450981415661.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
	<CAFmfzDsFqzk66C=zSn+kwZbxRumE0+bWfxmf1dG=zqYixywaZQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <567C4AAD.8030204@vitelcom.net>

1810 or 1809.9  is a good spot because it is the limit of many EU TB'ers 
and fewer East Coast big guns are parking there calling endless CQ's.

I used to have fun working on the higher bands nearby stations using a 
light build (dummy load).  This could be a 20X or 100X mult but let's 
hope not. Then how about just coupling into the power box with some 
blocking capacitors if you live in the country and can't get up a wire.  
Problem with that is the performance would be an infinite numbers of 
variables each one would be infinitely variable.

There has to be a "no antenna at all" award in the works.?


Herb Schoenbohm, KV4FZ

On 12/24/2015 2:31 PM, Barry N1EU wrote:
> Rumor says that it's 1810KHz but I don't really see it being relevant in
> TBDC
>
> 73, Barry N1EU
>
> On Thu, Dec 24, 2015 at 1:23 PM, jh-mty at sbcglobal.net <jh-mty at sbcglobal.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Me neither.  And Jim B is a QRPer (howdy from PG, Jim), so pray-tell....de
>> W6UQZ
>>
>>
>>        From: Jim Brown <jim at audiosystemsgroup.com>
>>   To: topband at contesting.com
>>   Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2015 10:19 AM
>>   Subject: Re: Topband: QRPers calling CQ in the SP ?
>>
>> On Thu,12/24/2015 10:03 AM, Jim F. via Topband wrote:
>>> Will try to make an attempt this year on the hour around the QRPwatering
>> hole. (QRPers know where that is ! )
>>
>> I don't. And why conceal it?
>>
>> 73, Jim K9YC
>> _________________
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>
>>
>>
>> _________________
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


From barry.n1eu at gmail.com  Thu Dec 24 14:45:59 2015
From: barry.n1eu at gmail.com (Barry N1EU)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2015 19:45:59 +0000
Subject: Topband: QRPers calling CQ in the SP ?
In-Reply-To: <750734108.2578599.1450982830093.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <CAFmfzDsFqzk66C=zSn+kwZbxRumE0+bWfxmf1dG=zqYixywaZQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<750734108.2578599.1450982830093.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAFmfzDt4TRR9QhXrs8FF7owktzS56Q704usjK4ko9t1o9RqQ5g@mail.gmail.com>

Realistically, 95%+ of the QRO guys hunting for a clear run frequency are
not going to have a clue that 1810 is anything other than totally available
to them.

73, Barry N1EU

On Thu, Dec 24, 2015 at 6:47 PM, jh-mty at sbcglobal.net <jh-mty at sbcglobal.net>
wrote:

> Well, it is---in that you don't want to be the 1.5KW elephant calling on
> top of it if you can help it :)  MX es HNY, John W6UQZ
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Barry N1EU <barry.n1eu at gmail.com>
> *To:* "topband at contesting.com" <topband at contesting.com>
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 24, 2015 10:31 AM
> *Subject:* Re: Topband: QRPers calling CQ in the SP ?
>
> Rumor says that it's 1810KHz but I don't really see it being relevant in
> TBDC
>
> 73, Barry N1EU
>
> On Thu, Dec 24, 2015 at 1:23 PM, jh-mty at sbcglobal.net <
> jh-mty at sbcglobal.net>
> wrote:
>
> > Me neither.  And Jim B is a QRPer (howdy from PG, Jim), so
> pray-tell....de
> > W6UQZ
> >
> >
> >      From: Jim Brown <jim at audiosystemsgroup.com>
> >  To: topband at contesting.com
> >  Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2015 10:19 AM
> >  Subject: Re: Topband: QRPers calling CQ in the SP ?
> >
> > On Thu,12/24/2015 10:03 AM, Jim F. via Topband wrote:
> > > Will try to make an attempt this year on the hour around the
> QRPwatering
> > hole. (QRPers know where that is ! )
> >
> > I don't. And why conceal it?
> >
> > 73, Jim K9YC
> > _________________
> > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
> >
> >
> >
> > _________________
> > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> >
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
>
>

From jim at audiosystemsgroup.com  Thu Dec 24 15:05:55 2015
From: jim at audiosystemsgroup.com (Jim Brown)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2015 12:05:55 -0800
Subject: Topband: QRPers calling CQ in the SP ?
In-Reply-To: <CAFmfzDt4TRR9QhXrs8FF7owktzS56Q704usjK4ko9t1o9RqQ5g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFmfzDsFqzk66C=zSn+kwZbxRumE0+bWfxmf1dG=zqYixywaZQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<750734108.2578599.1450982830093.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
	<CAFmfzDt4TRR9QhXrs8FF7owktzS56Q704usjK4ko9t1o9RqQ5g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <567C5023.5070401@audiosystemsgroup.com>

On Thu,12/24/2015 11:45 AM, Barry N1EU wrote:
> Realistically, 95%+ of the QRO guys hunting for a clear run frequency are
> not going to have a clue that 1810 is anything other than totally available
> to them.

Right. And sometimes I'm part of the QRO crowd. :)

FWIW, I consider reserved frequencies a pretty bad idea. Whether QRP or 
QRO, I do my best to find a frequency to run that will be clear at the 
DX locations I want to work. And when QRP, I don't CQ a lot -- mostly 
when I'm wanting to pass out Qs to locals.

73, Jim K9YC

From w8wej at citynet.net  Thu Dec 24 15:16:05 2015
From: w8wej at citynet.net (john)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2015 20:16:05 +0000
Subject: Topband: QRPers calling CQ in the SP ?
In-Reply-To: <CAFmfzDt4TRR9QhXrs8FF7owktzS56Q704usjK4ko9t1o9RqQ5g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFmfzDsFqzk66C=zSn+kwZbxRumE0+bWfxmf1dG=zqYixywaZQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<750734108.2578599.1450982830093.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
	<CAFmfzDt4TRR9QhXrs8FF7owktzS56Q704usjK4ko9t1o9RqQ5g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <567C5285.5080103@citynet.net>

I failed to indicate a point,,at 1910 you are less likely to get tromped 
on by the higher power ops. I have no illusion to working much if any 
dx, qrp,  on 160 especially during a contest. just hand out Qs
just an idea,,,Ill give it a shot  and see what happens, if any thing    
gl 73 john w8wej

On 12/24/2015 7:45 PM, Barry N1EU wrote:
> Realistically, 95%+ of the QRO guys hunting for a clear run frequency are
> not going to have a clue that 1810 is anything other than totally available
> to them.
>
> 73, Barry N1EU
>
> On Thu, Dec 24, 2015 at 6:47 PM, jh-mty at sbcglobal.net <jh-mty at sbcglobal.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Well, it is---in that you don't want to be the 1.5KW elephant calling on
>> top of it if you can help it :)  MX es HNY, John W6UQZ
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* Barry N1EU <barry.n1eu at gmail.com>
>> *To:* "topband at contesting.com" <topband at contesting.com>
>> *Sent:* Thursday, December 24, 2015 10:31 AM
>> *Subject:* Re: Topband: QRPers calling CQ in the SP ?
>>
>> Rumor says that it's 1810KHz but I don't really see it being relevant in
>> TBDC
>>
>> 73, Barry N1EU
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 24, 2015 at 1:23 PM, jh-mty at sbcglobal.net <
>> jh-mty at sbcglobal.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Me neither.  And Jim B is a QRPer (howdy from PG, Jim), so
>> pray-tell....de
>>> W6UQZ
>>>
>>>
>>>       From: Jim Brown <jim at audiosystemsgroup.com>
>>>   To: topband at contesting.com
>>>   Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2015 10:19 AM
>>>   Subject: Re: Topband: QRPers calling CQ in the SP ?
>>>
>>> On Thu,12/24/2015 10:03 AM, Jim F. via Topband wrote:
>>>> Will try to make an attempt this year on the hour around the
>> QRPwatering
>>> hole. (QRPers know where that is ! )
>>>
>>> I don't. And why conceal it?
>>>
>>> 73, Jim K9YC
>>> _________________
>>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>>
>>>
>>> _________________
>>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>>
>> _________________
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>
>>
>>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>


From chetmoore at cox.net  Thu Dec 24 15:20:06 2015
From: chetmoore at cox.net (chetmoore)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2015 15:20:06 -0500
Subject: Topband: QRPers calling CQ in the SP ?
In-Reply-To: <xZ691r01432TbLd01Z6EmN>
References: <CAFmfzDsFqzk66C=zSn+kwZbxRumE0+bWfxmf1dG=zqYixywaZQ@mail.gmail.com>	<750734108.2578599.1450982830093.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>	<CAFmfzDt4TRR9QhXrs8FF7owktzS56Q704usjK4ko9t1o9RqQ5g@mail.gmail.com>
	<xZ691r01432TbLd01Z6EmN>
Message-ID: <010c01d13e88$7a7f9130$6f7eb390$@net>


Sooooo,  not only do we have a secret watering hole, we have special times
To be there?    who knew???   <grin>   for sure I didn't but then again I
Am just a rookie being licensed recently in 1962.

Chet N4FX


-----Original Message-----
From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Jim Brown
Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2015 3:06 PM
To: topband at contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: QRPers calling CQ in the SP ?

On Thu,12/24/2015 11:45 AM, Barry N1EU wrote:
> Realistically, 95%+ of the QRO guys hunting for a clear run frequency 
> are not going to have a clue that 1810 is anything other than totally 
> available to them.

Right. And sometimes I'm part of the QRO crowd. :)

FWIW, I consider reserved frequencies a pretty bad idea. Whether QRP or QRO,
I do my best to find a frequency to run that will be clear at the DX
locations I want to work. And when QRP, I don't CQ a lot -- mostly when I'm
wanting to pass out Qs to locals.

73, Jim K9YC
_________________
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


From j_fitton at yahoo.com  Thu Dec 24 15:39:41 2015
From: j_fitton at yahoo.com (Jim F.)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2015 20:39:41 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Topband: QRPers calling CQ in the SP ?
In-Reply-To: <CAFmfzDt4TRR9QhXrs8FF7owktzS56Q704usjK4ko9t1o9RqQ5g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFmfzDsFqzk66C=zSn+kwZbxRumE0+bWfxmf1dG=zqYixywaZQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<750734108.2578599.1450982830093.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
	<CAFmfzDt4TRR9QhXrs8FF7owktzS56Q704usjK4ko9t1o9RqQ5g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1746541564.3081873.1450989581619.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

A QRPers secret !
An experienced QRPer is frequency agile and so can avoid QRMand makes calls usually + or -? QRM? from a stated frequency.?
We are used to high powered stations not hearing us and calling 
CQ on top of a QSO and learn to send a
? "U2"? or a "D2"? etc... and avoid the QRM.
Once while running a QRP net two booming stations came on 
frequency for their usual sked..One sent...? Don't worry, there is some sort of QRP activity going
on but you are 599 and they don't bother you a bit.
Great fun,
Jim / W1FMR

 

      From: Barry N1EU <barry.n1eu at gmail.com>
 To: "topband at contesting.com" <topband at contesting.com> 
 Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2015 2:45 PM
 Subject: Re: Topband: QRPers calling CQ in the SP ?
   
Realistically, 95%+ of the QRO guys hunting for a clear run frequency are
not going to have a clue that 1810 is anything other than totally available
to them.

73, Barry N1EU

On Thu, Dec 24, 2015 at 6:47 PM, jh-mty at sbcglobal.net <jh-mty at sbcglobal.net>
wrote:

> Well, it is---in that you don't want to be the 1.5KW elephant calling on
> top of it if you can help it :)? MX es HNY, John W6UQZ
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Barry N1EU <barry.n1eu at gmail.com>
> *To:* "topband at contesting.com" <topband at contesting.com>
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 24, 2015 10:31 AM
> *Subject:* Re: Topband: QRPers calling CQ in the SP ?
>
> Rumor says that it's 1810KHz but I don't really see it being relevant in
> TBDC
>
> 73, Barry N1EU
>
> On Thu, Dec 24, 2015 at 1:23 PM, jh-mty at sbcglobal.net <
> jh-mty at sbcglobal.net>
> wrote:
>
> > Me neither.? And Jim B is a QRPer (howdy from PG, Jim), so
> pray-tell....de
> > W6UQZ
> >
> >
> >? ? ? From: Jim Brown <jim at audiosystemsgroup.com>
> >? To: topband at contesting.com
> >? Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2015 10:19 AM
> >? Subject: Re: Topband: QRPers calling CQ in the SP ?
> >
> > On Thu,12/24/2015 10:03 AM, Jim F. via Topband wrote:
> > > Will try to make an attempt this year on the hour around the
> QRPwatering
> > hole. (QRPers know where that is ! )
> >
> > I don't. And why conceal it?
> >
> > 73, Jim K9YC
> > _________________
> > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
> >
> >
> >
> > _________________
> > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> >
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
>
>
_________________
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


  

From mark.k3msb at gmail.com  Thu Dec 24 16:05:48 2015
From: mark.k3msb at gmail.com (Mark K3MSB)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2015 16:05:48 -0500
Subject: Topband: ARRL 160CW Contest QRP Portable Op
In-Reply-To: <567BEFBC.3050700@comcast.net>
References: <567AE47C.40300@bellsouth.net> <567AEA2E.6060905@comcast.net>
	<567AEE32.1060509@audiosystemsgroup.com>
	<712448587.2869624.1450924497145.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
	<567BEFBC.3050700@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <CABdVoaAYmXujSHtGVcS-L8sTX-8B1Hw1Nm-=pxxoX6Wi9mwVaw@mail.gmail.com>

Well,  I think doing QRP is nuts on 160M,  but I tired it during the RAC
Winter Contest and made 26 QSOs in about 1.5 hours, and I have to admit it
was kinda fun, and I was just pokin' along.....

So, me thinks I'll try QRP during the Stew Perry and see how it goes.....
Now if I could just locate the source of my nasty 160M noise.....

73 Mark K3MSB

On Thu, Dec 24, 2015 at 8:14 AM, K4OWR <k2owr at comcast.net> wrote:

> :::: I will indeed be in there trying out all my new CW interface goodies.
> I have not really operated CW in a contest in many years.
> BTW FYI in the CQ 160 contest last year, In 9 hours I made 972 contacts in
> all 48 states plus 12 countries :-) :-) For first in TN and 17th. in
> country. All on phone.
> I did run full power though. One of these days I may try qrp just to
> punish myself.
> BILL K4OWR
>
>
> On 12/23/2015 9:34 PM, Jim F. via Topband wrote:
>
>> Amen brother Jim !
>> Hope K4OWR catches the drift and gives it a try :-) Jim /  W1FMR
>>
>>
>>        From: Jim Brown <jim at audiosystemsgroup.com>
>>   To: topband at contesting.com
>>   Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2015 1:55 PM
>>   Subject: Re: Topband: ARRL 160CW Contest QRP Portable Op
>>     On Wed,12/23/2015 10:38 AM, K4OWR wrote:
>>
>>> "/162 contacts in the log, with 51 sections, including 8 countries/"
>>> is terrible in any contest.
>>>
>> Huh? For QRP with a completely portable operation, I'd call that pretty
>> good.
>>
>> The late jazz saxophonist Gene Quill was sometimes criticized for being
>> a poor imitation of the great Charlie Parker. At one point, he handed
>> his horn to one of those critics, saying "Here -- YOU play Charlie
>> Parker solos."
>>
>> 73, Jim K9YC
>> _________________
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>
>>
>>    _________________
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>
>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>

From tshoppa at gmail.com  Thu Dec 24 16:05:55 2015
From: tshoppa at gmail.com (Tim Shoppa)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2015 16:05:55 -0500
Subject: Topband: QRPers calling CQ in the SP ?
In-Reply-To: <CAFmfzDt4TRR9QhXrs8FF7owktzS56Q704usjK4ko9t1o9RqQ5g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFmfzDsFqzk66C=zSn+kwZbxRumE0+bWfxmf1dG=zqYixywaZQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<750734108.2578599.1450982830093.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
	<CAFmfzDt4TRR9QhXrs8FF7owktzS56Q704usjK4ko9t1o9RqQ5g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJ_qRvb6-OUBwW84QTvTTRyBcGoC3dKq_QeYbAFZsRfV0_mVOg@mail.gmail.com>

I thought frequency congestion was less of a problem in ARRL 160 this year
than in some previous years. While the spectrum below 1810 was busy and not
too crowded, many top-scoring stations were running in the stratosphere
(well above 1850), and not taking any flak from phone guys who in some
previous runnings had staked out frequencies.

And...congestion is much less of a problem in the Stew.

Tim N3QE

On Thu, Dec 24, 2015 at 2:45 PM, Barry N1EU <barry.n1eu at gmail.com> wrote:

> Realistically, 95%+ of the QRO guys hunting for a clear run frequency are
> not going to have a clue that 1810 is anything other than totally available
> to them.
>
> 73, Barry N1EU
>
> On Thu, Dec 24, 2015 at 6:47 PM, jh-mty at sbcglobal.net <
> jh-mty at sbcglobal.net>
> wrote:
>
> > Well, it is---in that you don't want to be the 1.5KW elephant calling on
> > top of it if you can help it :)  MX es HNY, John W6UQZ
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> > *From:* Barry N1EU <barry.n1eu at gmail.com>
> > *To:* "topband at contesting.com" <topband at contesting.com>
> > *Sent:* Thursday, December 24, 2015 10:31 AM
> > *Subject:* Re: Topband: QRPers calling CQ in the SP ?
> >
> > Rumor says that it's 1810KHz but I don't really see it being relevant in
> > TBDC
> >
> > 73, Barry N1EU
> >
> > On Thu, Dec 24, 2015 at 1:23 PM, jh-mty at sbcglobal.net <
> > jh-mty at sbcglobal.net>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Me neither.  And Jim B is a QRPer (howdy from PG, Jim), so
> > pray-tell....de
> > > W6UQZ
> > >
> > >
> > >      From: Jim Brown <jim at audiosystemsgroup.com>
> > >  To: topband at contesting.com
> > >  Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2015 10:19 AM
> > >  Subject: Re: Topband: QRPers calling CQ in the SP ?
> > >
> > > On Thu,12/24/2015 10:03 AM, Jim F. via Topband wrote:
> > > > Will try to make an attempt this year on the hour around the
> > QRPwatering
> > > hole. (QRPers know where that is ! )
> > >
> > > I don't. And why conceal it?
> > >
> > > 73, Jim K9YC
> > > _________________
> > > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _________________
> > > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> > >
> > _________________
> > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> >
> >
> >
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>

From dj7ww at t-online.de  Thu Dec 24 16:36:20 2015
From: dj7ww at t-online.de (Peter Voelpel)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2015 22:36:20 +0100
Subject: Topband: ARRL 160CW Contest QRP Portable Op
In-Reply-To: <CABdVoaAYmXujSHtGVcS-L8sTX-8B1Hw1Nm-=pxxoX6Wi9mwVaw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <567AE47C.40300@bellsouth.net>
	<567AEA2E.6060905@comcast.net><567AEE32.1060509@audiosystemsgroup.com><712448587.2869624.1450924497145.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com><567BEFBC.3050700@comcast.net>
	<CABdVoaAYmXujSHtGVcS-L8sTX-8B1Hw1Nm-=pxxoX6Wi9mwVaw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2345AC8EC5D44ADC8B372AE7A3DB9783@SHACK>

Qrp on 160 is fun:

CQ WW CW this year:

SOSB/160 QRP
Call	QSOs	Zones	Countries	Op Time	Score	Club
GM4AFF	409	11	52	16	27,657	
K9JWV	16	7	5		496	
 

SOSB(A)/160 QRP
Call	QSOs	Zones	Countries	Op Time	Score	Club
OL1A(OK1CW)	476	10	60	18	37,380	
DJ7WW	308	11	55	28	25,476	RR DX
S57M	404	6	47	29	21,359	SCC

73
Peter

-----Original Message-----
From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Mark
K3MSB
Sent: Donnerstag, 24. Dezember 2015 22:06
To: K4OWR
Cc: topBand List
Subject: Re: Topband: ARRL 160CW Contest QRP Portable Op

Well,  I think doing QRP is nuts on 160M,  but I tired it during the RAC
Winter Contest and made 26 QSOs in about 1.5 hours, and I have to admit it
was kinda fun, and I was just pokin' along.....

So, me thinks I'll try QRP during the Stew Perry and see how it goes.....
Now if I could just locate the source of my nasty 160M noise.....

73 Mark K3MSB

On Thu, Dec 24, 2015 at 8:14 AM, K4OWR <k2owr at comcast.net> wrote:

> :::: I will indeed be in there trying out all my new CW interface goodies.
> I have not really operated CW in a contest in many years.
> BTW FYI in the CQ 160 contest last year, In 9 hours I made 972 contacts in
> all 48 states plus 12 countries :-) :-) For first in TN and 17th. in
> country. All on phone.
> I did run full power though. One of these days I may try qrp just to
> punish myself.
> BILL K4OWR
>
>
> On 12/23/2015 9:34 PM, Jim F. via Topband wrote:
>
>> Amen brother Jim !
>> Hope K4OWR catches the drift and gives it a try :-) Jim /  W1FMR
>>
>>
>>        From: Jim Brown <jim at audiosystemsgroup.com>
>>   To: topband at contesting.com
>>   Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2015 1:55 PM
>>   Subject: Re: Topband: ARRL 160CW Contest QRP Portable Op
>>     On Wed,12/23/2015 10:38 AM, K4OWR wrote:
>>
>>> "/162 contacts in the log, with 51 sections, including 8 countries/"
>>> is terrible in any contest.
>>>
>> Huh? For QRP with a completely portable operation, I'd call that pretty
>> good.
>>
>> The late jazz saxophonist Gene Quill was sometimes criticized for being
>> a poor imitation of the great Charlie Parker. At one point, he handed
>> his horn to one of those critics, saying "Here -- YOU play Charlie
>> Parker solos."
>>
>> 73, Jim K9YC
>> _________________
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>
>>
>>    _________________
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>
>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
_________________
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


From mikefurrey at att.net  Thu Dec 24 16:36:32 2015
From: mikefurrey at att.net (Mike Furrey)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2015 21:36:32 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Topband: ARRL 160CW Contest QRP Portable Op
In-Reply-To: <2345AC8EC5D44ADC8B372AE7A3DB9783@SHACK>
References: <2345AC8EC5D44ADC8B372AE7A3DB9783@SHACK>
Message-ID: <2003651021.3327847.1450992992871.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

Some one is having too much fun! I may have to try that!
Great Job!
73, Mike WA5POK
 

    On Thursday, December 24, 2015 3:33 PM, Peter Voelpel <dj7ww at t-online.de> wrote:
 

 Qrp on 160 is fun:

CQ WW CW this year:

SOSB/160 QRP
Call??? QSOs??? Zones??? Countries??? Op Time??? Score??? Club
GM4AFF??? 409??? 11??? 52??? 16??? 27,657??? 
K9JWV??? 16??? 7??? 5??? ??? 496??? 
 

SOSB(A)/160 QRP
Call??? QSOs??? Zones??? Countries??? Op Time??? Score??? Club
OL1A(OK1CW)??? 476??? 10??? 60??? 18??? 37,380??? 
DJ7WW??? 308??? 11??? 55??? 28??? 25,476??? RR DX
S57M??? 404??? 6??? 47??? 29??? 21,359??? SCC

73
Peter

-----Original Message-----
From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Mark
K3MSB
Sent: Donnerstag, 24. Dezember 2015 22:06
To: K4OWR
Cc: topBand List
Subject: Re: Topband: ARRL 160CW Contest QRP Portable Op

Well,? I think doing QRP is nuts on 160M,? but I tired it during the RAC
Winter Contest and made 26 QSOs in about 1.5 hours, and I have to admit it
was kinda fun, and I was just pokin' along.....

So, me thinks I'll try QRP during the Stew Perry and see how it goes.....
Now if I could just locate the source of my nasty 160M noise.....

73 Mark K3MSB

On Thu, Dec 24, 2015 at 8:14 AM, K4OWR <k2owr at comcast.net> wrote:

> :::: I will indeed be in there trying out all my new CW interface goodies.
> I have not really operated CW in a contest in many years.
> BTW FYI in the CQ 160 contest last year, In 9 hours I made 972 contacts in
> all 48 states plus 12 countries :-) :-) For first in TN and 17th. in
> country. All on phone.
> I did run full power though. One of these days I may try qrp just to
> punish myself.
> BILL K4OWR
>
>
> On 12/23/2015 9:34 PM, Jim F. via Topband wrote:
>
>> Amen brother Jim !
>> Hope K4OWR catches the drift and gives it a try :-) Jim /? W1FMR
>>
>>
>>? ? ? ? From: Jim Brown <jim at audiosystemsgroup.com>
>>? To: topband at contesting.com
>>? Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2015 1:55 PM
>>? Subject: Re: Topband: ARRL 160CW Contest QRP Portable Op
>>? ? On Wed,12/23/2015 10:38 AM, K4OWR wrote:
>>
>>> "/162 contacts in the log, with 51 sections, including 8 countries/"
>>> is terrible in any contest.
>>>
>> Huh? For QRP with a completely portable operation, I'd call that pretty
>> good.
>>
>> The late jazz saxophonist Gene Quill was sometimes criticized for being
>> a poor imitation of the great Charlie Parker. At one point, he handed
>> his horn to one of those critics, saying "Here -- YOU play Charlie
>> Parker solos."
>>
>> 73, Jim K9YC
>> _________________
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>
>>
>>? ? _________________
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>
>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
_________________
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

_________________
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


  

From herbs at vitelcom.net  Thu Dec 24 18:44:32 2015
From: herbs at vitelcom.net (Herbert Schoenbohm)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2015 19:44:32 -0400
Subject: Topband: ARRL 160CW Contest QRP Portable Op
In-Reply-To: <2345AC8EC5D44ADC8B372AE7A3DB9783@SHACK>
References: <567AE47C.40300@bellsouth.net> <567AEA2E.6060905@comcast.net>
	<567AEE32.1060509@audiosystemsgroup.com>
	<712448587.2869624.1450924497145.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
	<567BEFBC.3050700@comcast.net>
	<CABdVoaAYmXujSHtGVcS-L8sTX-8B1Hw1Nm-=pxxoX6Wi9mwVaw@mail.gmail.com>
	<2345AC8EC5D44ADC8B372AE7A3DB9783@SHACK>
Message-ID: <567C8360.1010907@vitelcom.net>

Peter,  If you think calling CQ in a contest while  running 5 watts and 
not getting a single reply is fun then have at it. Working some stations 
with 100 watts is more fun for me.


Herb Schoenbohm, KV4FZ

On 12/24/2015 5:36 PM, Peter Voelpel wrote:
> Qrp on 160 is fun:
>
> CQ WW CW this year:
>
> SOSB/160 QRP
> Call	QSOs	Zones	Countries	Op Time	Score	Club
> GM4AFF	409	11	52	16	27,657	
> K9JWV	16	7	5		496	
>   
>
> SOSB(A)/160 QRP
> Call	QSOs	Zones	Countries	Op Time	Score	Club
> OL1A(OK1CW)	476	10	60	18	37,380	
> DJ7WW	308	11	55	28	25,476	RR DX
> S57M	404	6	47	29	21,359	SCC
>
> 73
> Peter
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Mark
> K3MSB
> Sent: Donnerstag, 24. Dezember 2015 22:06
> To: K4OWR
> Cc: topBand List
> Subject: Re: Topband: ARRL 160CW Contest QRP Portable Op
>
> Well,  I think doing QRP is nuts on 160M,  but I tired it during the RAC
> Winter Contest and made 26 QSOs in about 1.5 hours, and I have to admit it
> was kinda fun, and I was just pokin' along.....
>
> So, me thinks I'll try QRP during the Stew Perry and see how it goes.....
> Now if I could just locate the source of my nasty 160M noise.....
>
> 73 Mark K3MSB
>
> On Thu, Dec 24, 2015 at 8:14 AM, K4OWR <k2owr at comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> :::: I will indeed be in there trying out all my new CW interface goodies.
>> I have not really operated CW in a contest in many years.
>> BTW FYI in the CQ 160 contest last year, In 9 hours I made 972 contacts in
>> all 48 states plus 12 countries :-) :-) For first in TN and 17th. in
>> country. All on phone.
>> I did run full power though. One of these days I may try qrp just to
>> punish myself.
>> BILL K4OWR
>>
>>
>> On 12/23/2015 9:34 PM, Jim F. via Topband wrote:
>>
>>> Amen brother Jim !
>>> Hope K4OWR catches the drift and gives it a try :-) Jim /  W1FMR
>>>
>>>
>>>         From: Jim Brown <jim at audiosystemsgroup.com>
>>>    To: topband at contesting.com
>>>    Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2015 1:55 PM
>>>    Subject: Re: Topband: ARRL 160CW Contest QRP Portable Op
>>>      On Wed,12/23/2015 10:38 AM, K4OWR wrote:
>>>
>>>> "/162 contacts in the log, with 51 sections, including 8 countries/"
>>>> is terrible in any contest.
>>>>
>>> Huh? For QRP with a completely portable operation, I'd call that pretty
>>> good.
>>>
>>> The late jazz saxophonist Gene Quill was sometimes criticized for being
>>> a poor imitation of the great Charlie Parker. At one point, he handed
>>> his horn to one of those critics, saying "Here -- YOU play Charlie
>>> Parker solos."
>>>
>>> 73, Jim K9YC
>>> _________________
>>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>>
>>>
>>>     _________________
>>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>>
>> _________________
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


From dj7ww at t-online.de  Thu Dec 24 19:07:26 2015
From: dj7ww at t-online.de (Peter Voelpel)
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2015 01:07:26 +0100
Subject: Topband: ARRL 160CW Contest QRP Portable Op
In-Reply-To: <567C8360.1010907@vitelcom.net>
References: <567AE47C.40300@bellsouth.net>
	<567AEA2E.6060905@comcast.net><567AEE32.1060509@audiosystemsgroup.com><712448587.2869624.1450924497145.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com><567BEFBC.3050700@comcast.net><CABdVoaAYmXujSHtGVcS-L8sTX-8B1Hw1Nm-=pxxoX6Wi9mwVaw@mail.gmail.com><2345AC8EC5D44ADC8B372AE7A3DB9783@SHACK>
	<567C8360.1010907@vitelcom.net>
Message-ID: <D5EBA7D2C8C64D038FA7B8F25BFC816A@SHACK>

Herb, I don?t call CQ when I do qrp on 160m during a contest, just call
stations running and concentrate on finding mults and DX for best scoring.
This year I worked 30 VE/W, but assisted which helped a bit and it is
amazing what good ears you have across the pond.
Was easier to get W in the log then northern Africa and Middle East.

73
Peter

-----Original Message-----
From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Herbert
Schoenbohm
Sent: Freitag, 25. Dezember 2015 00:45
To: topband at contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: ARRL 160CW Contest QRP Portable Op

Peter,  If you think calling CQ in a contest while  running 5 watts and 
not getting a single reply is fun then have at it. Working some stations 
with 100 watts is more fun for me.


Herb Schoenbohm, KV4FZ

On 12/24/2015 5:36 PM, Peter Voelpel wrote:
> Qrp on 160 is fun:
>
> CQ WW CW this year:
>
> SOSB/160 QRP
> Call	QSOs	Zones	Countries	Op Time	Score	Club
> GM4AFF	409	11	52	16	27,657	
> K9JWV	16	7	5		496	
>   
>
> SOSB(A)/160 QRP
> Call	QSOs	Zones	Countries	Op Time	Score	Club
> OL1A(OK1CW)	476	10	60	18	37,380	
> DJ7WW	308	11	55	28	25,476	RR DX
> S57M	404	6	47	29	21,359	SCC
>
> 73
> Peter
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Mark
> K3MSB
> Sent: Donnerstag, 24. Dezember 2015 22:06
> To: K4OWR
> Cc: topBand List
> Subject: Re: Topband: ARRL 160CW Contest QRP Portable Op
>
> Well,  I think doing QRP is nuts on 160M,  but I tired it during the RAC
> Winter Contest and made 26 QSOs in about 1.5 hours, and I have to admit it
> was kinda fun, and I was just pokin' along.....
>
> So, me thinks I'll try QRP during the Stew Perry and see how it goes.....
> Now if I could just locate the source of my nasty 160M noise.....
>
> 73 Mark K3MSB
>
> On Thu, Dec 24, 2015 at 8:14 AM, K4OWR <k2owr at comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> :::: I will indeed be in there trying out all my new CW interface
goodies.
>> I have not really operated CW in a contest in many years.
>> BTW FYI in the CQ 160 contest last year, In 9 hours I made 972 contacts
in
>> all 48 states plus 12 countries :-) :-) For first in TN and 17th. in
>> country. All on phone.
>> I did run full power though. One of these days I may try qrp just to
>> punish myself.
>> BILL K4OWR
>>
>>
>> On 12/23/2015 9:34 PM, Jim F. via Topband wrote:
>>
>>> Amen brother Jim !
>>> Hope K4OWR catches the drift and gives it a try :-) Jim /  W1FMR
>>>
>>>
>>>         From: Jim Brown <jim at audiosystemsgroup.com>
>>>    To: topband at contesting.com
>>>    Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2015 1:55 PM
>>>    Subject: Re: Topband: ARRL 160CW Contest QRP Portable Op
>>>      On Wed,12/23/2015 10:38 AM, K4OWR wrote:
>>>
>>>> "/162 contacts in the log, with 51 sections, including 8 countries/"
>>>> is terrible in any contest.
>>>>
>>> Huh? For QRP with a completely portable operation, I'd call that pretty
>>> good.
>>>
>>> The late jazz saxophonist Gene Quill was sometimes criticized for being
>>> a poor imitation of the great Charlie Parker. At one point, he handed
>>> his horn to one of those critics, saying "Here -- YOU play Charlie
>>> Parker solos."
>>>
>>> 73, Jim K9YC
>>> _________________
>>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>>
>>>
>>>     _________________
>>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>>
>> _________________
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

_________________
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


From k6uj at pacbell.net  Thu Dec 24 20:43:23 2015
From: k6uj at pacbell.net (Robert Harmon)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2015 17:43:23 -0800
Subject: Topband: ARRL 160CW Contest QRP Portable Op
In-Reply-To: <567C8360.1010907@vitelcom.net>
References: <567AE47C.40300@bellsouth.net> <567AEA2E.6060905@comcast.net>
	<567AEE32.1060509@audiosystemsgroup.com>
	<712448587.2869624.1450924497145.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
	<567BEFBC.3050700@comcast.net>
	<CABdVoaAYmXujSHtGVcS-L8sTX-8B1Hw1Nm-=pxxoX6Wi9mwVaw@mail.gmail.com>
	<2345AC8EC5D44ADC8B372AE7A3DB9783@SHACK>
	<567C8360.1010907@vitelcom.net>
Message-ID: <567C9F3B.2030601@pacbell.net>

Herb,

I feel the same way.
I have nothing against QRP, but for me personally I don't have the 
desire to
handicap myself with QRP power especially on 160.  It doesn't seem fair 
to me for the guy
on the other end to be burdened with trying to dig my weak signal out so 
I can make another
contact.  ( Just my opinion, guys. )

73,
Bob
K6UJ

On 12/24/15 3:44 PM, Herbert Schoenbohm wrote:
> Peter, If you think calling CQ in a contest while  running 5 watts and 
> not getting a single reply is fun then have at it. Working some 
> stations with 100 watts is more fun for me.
>
>
> Herb Schoenbohm, KV4FZ
>
> On 12/24/2015 5:36 PM, Peter Voelpel wrote:
>> Qrp on 160 is fun:
>>
>> CQ WW CW this year:
>>
>> SOSB/160 QRP
>> Call    QSOs    Zones    Countries    Op Time    Score    Club
>> GM4AFF    409    11    52    16    27,657
>> K9JWV    16    7    5        496
>>
>> SOSB(A)/160 QRP
>> Call    QSOs    Zones    Countries    Op Time    Score    Club
>> OL1A(OK1CW)    476    10    60    18    37,380
>> DJ7WW    308    11    55    28    25,476    RR DX
>> S57M    404    6    47    29    21,359    SCC
>>
>> 73
>> Peter
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Mark
>> K3MSB
>> Sent: Donnerstag, 24. Dezember 2015 22:06
>> To: K4OWR
>> Cc: topBand List
>> Subject: Re: Topband: ARRL 160CW Contest QRP Portable Op
>>
>> Well,  I think doing QRP is nuts on 160M,  but I tired it during the RAC
>> Winter Contest and made 26 QSOs in about 1.5 hours, and I have to 
>> admit it
>> was kinda fun, and I was just pokin' along.....
>>
>> So, me thinks I'll try QRP during the Stew Perry and see how it 
>> goes.....
>> Now if I could just locate the source of my nasty 160M noise.....
>>
>> 73 Mark K3MSB
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 24, 2015 at 8:14 AM, K4OWR <k2owr at comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>> :::: I will indeed be in there trying out all my new CW interface 
>>> goodies.
>>> I have not really operated CW in a contest in many years.
>>> BTW FYI in the CQ 160 contest last year, In 9 hours I made 972 
>>> contacts in
>>> all 48 states plus 12 countries :-) :-) For first in TN and 17th. in
>>> country. All on phone.
>>> I did run full power though. One of these days I may try qrp just to
>>> punish myself.
>>> BILL K4OWR
>>>
>>>
>>> On 12/23/2015 9:34 PM, Jim F. via Topband wrote:
>>>
>>>> Amen brother Jim !
>>>> Hope K4OWR catches the drift and gives it a try :-) Jim / W1FMR
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         From: Jim Brown <jim at audiosystemsgroup.com>
>>>>    To: topband at contesting.com
>>>>    Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2015 1:55 PM
>>>>    Subject: Re: Topband: ARRL 160CW Contest QRP Portable Op
>>>>      On Wed,12/23/2015 10:38 AM, K4OWR wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "/162 contacts in the log, with 51 sections, including 8 countries/"
>>>>> is terrible in any contest.
>>>>>
>>>> Huh? For QRP with a completely portable operation, I'd call that 
>>>> pretty
>>>> good.
>>>>
>>>> The late jazz saxophonist Gene Quill was sometimes criticized for 
>>>> being
>>>> a poor imitation of the great Charlie Parker. At one point, he handed
>>>> his horn to one of those critics, saying "Here -- YOU play Charlie
>>>> Parker solos."
>>>>
>>>> 73, Jim K9YC
>>>> _________________
>>>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     _________________
>>>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>>>
>>> _________________
>>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>>
>> _________________
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>
>> _________________
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>


From miltn5ia at gmail.com  Thu Dec 24 20:59:13 2015
From: miltn5ia at gmail.com (Milt)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2015 18:59:13 -0700
Subject: Topband: ARRL 160CW Contest QRP Portable Op
In-Reply-To: <567C9F3B.2030601@pacbell.net>
References: <567AE47C.40300@bellsouth.net>
	<567AEA2E.6060905@comcast.net><567AEE32.1060509@audiosystemsgroup.com><712448587.2869624.1450924497145.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com><567BEFBC.3050700@comcast.net><CABdVoaAYmXujSHtGVcS-L8sTX-8B1Hw1Nm-=pxxoX6Wi9mwVaw@mail.gmail.com><2345AC8EC5D44ADC8B372AE7A3DB9783@SHACK><567C8360.1010907@vitelcom.net>
	<567C9F3B.2030601@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <3BAB2E8E199D46499F389118EB5F7E5A@Milts2009>

Hmmm.  If that is the case, then QRP should NOT be used on any band for 
contesting or otherwise.  That is the name of the game; dig out the weak 
ones.

I personally have nothing against QRP, having operated QRP in the Stew Perry 
contest for 16 of the 19 runnings.  I even have a plaque on the wall for #1 
World operating QRP.

IMHO the SPDC is the BEST contest to use QRP because #1-You get more points 
per given Q, and #2-The other station gets equal compensation in points for 
copying your QRP signal.  What could be more fair?

CU all in the SPDC as N7GP during my daylight hours and as N5IA during the 
core night time 14 hours.  I will make the best effort to put every caller 
in the logs; even the real strong QRP guys and the QRO stations I can barely 
discern through the din, static and fades receive equal treatment.

73, and Merry Christmas to everyone everywhere.

de Milt, N5IA

-----Original Message----- 
From: Robert Harmon
Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2015 6:43 PM
To: topband at contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: ARRL 160CW Contest QRP Portable Op

Herb,

I feel the same way.
I have nothing against QRP, but for me personally I don't have the
desire to
handicap myself with QRP power especially on 160.  It doesn't seem fair
to me for the guy
on the other end to be burdened with trying to dig my weak signal out so
I can make another
contact.  ( Just my opinion, guys. )

73,
Bob
K6UJ

On 12/24/15 3:44 PM, Herbert Schoenbohm wrote:
> Peter, If you think calling CQ in a contest while  running 5 watts and not 
> getting a single reply is fun then have at it. Working some stations with 
> 100 watts is more fun for me.
>
>
> Herb Schoenbohm, KV4FZ


From k2av.guy at gmail.com  Thu Dec 24 21:09:57 2015
From: k2av.guy at gmail.com (Guy Olinger K2AV)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2015 21:09:57 -0500
Subject: Topband: QRPers calling CQ in the SP ?
In-Reply-To: <1659354009.3087061.1450980193886.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1659354009.3087061.1450980193886.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1659354009.3087061.1450980193886.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CANckpc3EnDy=EqF8yrrQgwT_Jr1yyS07Ju6oPHnHPamkDYjLgg@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Dec 24, 2015 at 1:03 PM, Jim F. via Topband <topband at contesting.com>
wrote:

> It is very difficult for me to work other QRP stations because of a
> strong reluctance to call CQ with such a weak signal.
>

It is precisely because of the weak QRP signal that one should either wait
out the beginning of the contest, or better, if you aren't further
disadvantaged by running a disadvantaged antenna with your QRP, just go
high enough to find a free frequency and call CQ. You can't compete with KW
S&Pers. There's a pile on all of the CQers. If you are calling CQ, people
will find you.

I found that I was able to hold a run frequency running 100 watts.

If one of the skimmers picks up your signal, there will be folks coming
around as soon as you are spotted.

73, Happy Holidays, and see you in the Stew.

Guy K2AV

From tree at kkn.net  Thu Dec 24 22:09:36 2015
From: tree at kkn.net (Tree)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2015 19:09:36 -0800
Subject: Topband: QRPers calling CQ in the SP ?
In-Reply-To: <CANckpc3EnDy=EqF8yrrQgwT_Jr1yyS07Ju6oPHnHPamkDYjLgg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1659354009.3087061.1450980193886.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1659354009.3087061.1450980193886.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
	<CANckpc3EnDy=EqF8yrrQgwT_Jr1yyS07Ju6oPHnHPamkDYjLgg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKF9Hhbm-mezS5viE8psavOxLzoVroaabnvvXx=nTc4dwiyyLQ@mail.gmail.com>

In general - there is very little difference between a QRP signal 1500
miles away and a QRO signal from another continent.  Experience has shown
that a QRP station with an efficient antenna can get answers to their CQ.

Mix it up - S&P on the band - but if you find a clear frequency - call CQ
for a few minutes and you might be surprised.

If you never CQ - then you will never work those other stations who are
only S&P.

Happy Holidays and see you all in the Stew!!

Tree N6TR / K7RAT

On Thu, Dec 24, 2015 at 6:09 PM, Guy Olinger K2AV <k2av.guy at gmail.com>
wrote:

> On Thu, Dec 24, 2015 at 1:03 PM, Jim F. via Topband <
> topband at contesting.com>
> wrote:
>
> > It is very difficult for me to work other QRP stations because of a
> > strong reluctance to call CQ with such a weak signal.
> >
>
> It is precisely because of the weak QRP signal that one should either wait
> out the beginning of the contest, or better, if you aren't further
> disadvantaged by running a disadvantaged antenna with your QRP, just go
> high enough to find a free frequency and call CQ. You can't compete with KW
> S&Pers. There's a pile on all of the CQers. If you are calling CQ, people
> will find you.
>
> I found that I was able to hold a run frequency running 100 watts.
>
> If one of the skimmers picks up your signal, there will be folks coming
> around as soon as you are spotted.
>
> 73, Happy Holidays, and see you in the Stew.
>
> Guy K2AV
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>

From mikewate at gmail.com  Thu Dec 24 22:25:10 2015
From: mikewate at gmail.com (Mike Waters)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2015 21:25:10 -0600
Subject: Topband: QRPers calling CQ in the SP ?
In-Reply-To: <794222312.3013958.1450982385800.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <567C373F.4090102@audiosystemsgroup.com>
	<794222312.3013958.1450982385800.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CA+FxYXj=t5a0Hw_ms7_un+tPYV8DyZjFxm7mKqNxveVTx5dVBg@mail.gmail.com>

Of course, any frequency ending in a zero is almost guaranteed to have a
constant broadcast station harmonic. I almost always hear them here,
especially at night. And very often, that BC carrier is stronger than
stations zero-beat with them calling CQ! Better to be slightly off of zero,
if you're QRP and want to be heard.

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com

1.810 MHz is universally recognized as the QRP CW calling frequency and
> 1.910 for SSB.
>

From wrcromwell at gmail.com  Fri Dec 25 04:39:59 2015
From: wrcromwell at gmail.com (Bill Cromwell)
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2015 04:39:59 -0500
Subject: Topband: Best Wishes
In-Reply-To: <567C9F3B.2030601@pacbell.net>
References: <567AE47C.40300@bellsouth.net> <567AEA2E.6060905@comcast.net>
	<567AEE32.1060509@audiosystemsgroup.com>
	<712448587.2869624.1450924497145.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
	<567BEFBC.3050700@comcast.net>
	<CABdVoaAYmXujSHtGVcS-L8sTX-8B1Hw1Nm-=pxxoX6Wi9mwVaw@mail.gmail.com>
	<2345AC8EC5D44ADC8B372AE7A3DB9783@SHACK>
	<567C8360.1010907@vitelcom.net> <567C9F3B.2030601@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <567D0EEF.5040605@gmail.com>

Merry Christmas to all from Bill and Carolyn.

73,

Bill  KU8H

From w8ji at w8ji.com  Fri Dec 25 06:44:33 2015
From: w8ji at w8ji.com (Tom W8JI)
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2015 06:44:33 -0500
Subject: Topband: QRPers calling CQ in the SP ?
References: <567C373F.4090102@audiosystemsgroup.com><794222312.3013958.1450982385800.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
	<CA+FxYXj=t5a0Hw_ms7_un+tPYV8DyZjFxm7mKqNxveVTx5dVBg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <64C50DC417F949F9B823B3F2B5599A1C@MAIN>

> Of course, any frequency ending in a zero is almost guaranteed to have a
> constant broadcast station harmonic. I almost always hear them here,
> especially at night. And very often, that BC carrier is stronger than
> stations zero-beat with them calling CQ! Better to be slightly off of 
> zero,
> if you're QRP and want to be heard.

I could never understand that either. Anything USA on the 10's is likely to, 
sometime or another, have a mixing product or harmonic. 


From Rodenkirch_LLC at msn.com  Fri Dec 25 06:46:20 2015
From: Rodenkirch_LLC at msn.com (James Rodenkirch)
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2015 11:46:20 +0000
Subject: Topband: QRPers calling CQ in the SP ?
In-Reply-To: <567C5023.5070401@audiosystemsgroup.com>
References: <CAFmfzDsFqzk66C=zSn+kwZbxRumE0+bWfxmf1dG=zqYixywaZQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<750734108.2578599.1450982830093.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
	<CAFmfzDt4TRR9QhXrs8FF7owktzS56Q704usjK4ko9t1o9RqQ5g@mail.gmail.com>,
	<567C5023.5070401@audiosystemsgroup.com>
Message-ID: <SN1PR16MB06235AC4EF3E50527B19C96DF0F80@SN1PR16MB0623.namprd16.prod.outlook.com>

I call CQ during any contest as a QRP entry (is there, really, any other fun category?) and have mini-runs of 5 to 10 return calls often, especially during the 160 meter events.

I can't say, for certain, the % of Qs that have resulted from a "run attempt" but I'm thinkin' in the order of 10 to 15%, at a minimum! The key to run "success" is: keep moving up or down the band 'till you quit hearing signals, move back down or up 'till you start hearing signals, ratchet down your receiver's band width 'till comfortable with the least amount of "interference" from the closest contester and start calling CQ....worked very well for me during the Pre-Stew this past October - even added my first of several HI Qs for that contest during a "run period"!!

Those suggested "QRP watering hole freqs" do nothing but undermine and constrain, mentally, the typical QRP operator's ability to make Qs, whether in a contest or not. I subscribe to several QRP focused reflectors and see posts, often, where the decision to "get on the air" is hampered by the posting ham's reluctance to stray from those "blessed frequencies"; it's difficult to chase DX that way and equally difficult to enjoy LOTs of QSOs. 

71.5/72 de Jim Rodenkirch K9JWV 

________________________________________
From: Topband <topband-bounces at contesting.com> on behalf of Jim Brown <jim at audiosystemsgroup.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2015 1:05 PM
To: topband at contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: QRPers calling CQ in the SP ?

On Thu,12/24/2015 11:45 AM, Barry N1EU wrote:
> Realistically, 95%+ of the QRO guys hunting for a clear run frequency are
> not going to have a clue that 1810 is anything other than totally available
> to them.

Right. And sometimes I'm part of the QRO crowd. :)

FWIW, I consider reserved frequencies a pretty bad idea. Whether QRP or
QRO, I do my best to find a frequency to run that will be clear at the
DX locations I want to work. And when QRP, I don't CQ a lot -- mostly
when I'm wanting to pass out Qs to locals.

73, Jim K9YC
_________________
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

From tree at kkn.net  Fri Dec 25 11:29:57 2015
From: tree at kkn.net (Tree)
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2015 08:29:57 -0800
Subject: Topband: A brief Boring report
Message-ID: <CAKF9HhaMx+bK4sbJjjNFo4fMA3oLaQK+0zg-FotfYw4D15dtLg@mail.gmail.com>

The HQ for the Boring report has moved to Hillsboro, Oregon - but alas -
the reports are still Boring.

During the ARRL 160 - at 1500Z - on Sunday - when the rate was near zero -
a very familiar callsign ticked my ear drums.  It was W0ZTL.

There are many callsigns that I remember from the "old" days on Topband
(let's call that pre-1980) - and W0ZTL is certainly one of them.  I have
Alex's QSL card from 1975 here as I write this - sent to my Mom's address -
with an eight cent stamp on it.  Just for sentimental purposes - I sent a
new QSL to him for this most recent QSO - and received a prompt reply.

He has been on the air since 1937 and is less than two years away from his
100th birthday.  It's always such a pleasure to hear old friends like this
on the band.   He always seems to call in well after his sunrise - but
always with a good signal on an otherwise lonely band.

Thanks for being there Alex.  I hope to work you many more times on Topband.

73 Tree N6TR

From kolson at rcn.com  Fri Dec 25 11:39:51 2015
From: kolson at rcn.com (kolson at rcn.com)
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2015 11:39:51 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Topband: ARRL 160CW Contest QRP Portable Op
In-Reply-To: <3BAB2E8E199D46499F389118EB5F7E5A@Milts2009>
Message-ID: <677929785.138320971.1451061591172.JavaMail.root@rcn.com>


What would be much more fair is to go by ERP. 5 watts from?one of tho se sophisticated antenna farms may very well be stronger than 100w or even 600w from, let's say, a Butte rnut with a vestigial radial field. T he Butternut guy gets no consideration?(in fact, generally he gets derision) but the (often louder) 5 watt guy is hailed as ?a great big QRP hero (hi hi) . Somehow, r unning a compromise antenna marks us as not caring but running QRP is "noble". 

To me, the weird thing is that, at least for most of us running compromise antennas, our choice is made out of the necessities of real life, that is, we do what we can do from a small lot or an antenna restricted?development ?or where zoning laws are especially hostile to amateur antennas. In some cases , it's may even be a concession to a neighbor that be insan e (don't ask me how I know). The decision to use 5 watts, on the other hand, ?is basically whim. M ost of our radios output 100w out of the box, so one operates at 5 watts because he wants to, not because he has to. ?A nd there are plenty of reasonably priced used ?600w+ amps available if one wants even more power that basically only ?take desk space, no zoning required. 

73, Kevin K3OX ? ?? 


----- Original Message -----

From: "Milt" <miltn5ia at gmail.com> 
To: topband at contesting.com, "Robert Harmon" <k6uj at pacbell.net> 
Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2015 8:59:13 PM 
Subject: Re: Topband: ARRL 160CW Contest QRP Portable Op 

Hmmm. ?If that is the case, then QRP should NOT be used on any band for 
contesting or otherwise. ?That is the name of the game; dig out the weak 
ones. 

I personally have nothing against QRP, having operated QRP in the Stew Perry 
contest for 16 of the 19 runnings. ?I even have a plaque on the wall for #1 
World operating QRP. 

IMHO the SPDC is the BEST contest to use QRP because #1-You get more points 
per given Q, and #2-The other station gets equal compensation in points for 
copying your QRP signal. ?What could be more fair? 

CU all in the SPDC as N7GP during my daylight hours and as N5IA during the 
core night time 14 hours. ?I will make the best effort to put every caller 
in the logs; even the real strong QRP guys and the QRO stations I can barely 
discern through the din, static and fades receive equal treatment. 

73, and Merry Christmas to everyone everywhere. 

de Milt, N5IA 

-----Original Message----- 
From: Robert Harmon 
Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2015 6:43 PM 
To: topband at contesting.com 
Subject: Re: Topband: ARRL 160CW Contest QRP Portable Op 

Herb, 

I feel the same way. 
I have nothing against QRP, but for me personally I don't have the 
desire to 
handicap myself with QRP power especially on 160. ?It doesn't seem fair 
to me for the guy 
on the other end to be burdened with trying to dig my weak signal out so 
I can make another 
contact. ?( Just my opinion, guys. ) 

73, 
Bob 
K6UJ 

On 12/24/15 3:44 PM, Herbert Schoenbohm wrote: 
> Peter, If you think calling CQ in a contest while ?running 5 watts and not 
> getting a single reply is fun then have at it. Working some stations with 
> 100 watts is more fun for me. 
> 
> 
> Herb Schoenbohm, KV4FZ 

_________________ 
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband 


From tree at kkn.net  Fri Dec 25 11:58:19 2015
From: tree at kkn.net (Tree)
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2015 08:58:19 -0800
Subject: Topband: ARRL 160CW Contest QRP Portable Op
In-Reply-To: <677929785.138320971.1451061591172.JavaMail.root@rcn.com>
References: <3BAB2E8E199D46499F389118EB5F7E5A@Milts2009>
	<677929785.138320971.1451061591172.JavaMail.root@rcn.com>
Message-ID: <CAKF9HhbXR8w=7hPCht7ZNnUSPE_YFowZWKgyJ7eAta-rLaM++w@mail.gmail.com>

Last year - I was operating the Stew from a temporary location - and with a
bench power supply that could only provide enough power to set the K3 power
at about 3.7 watts.  My antenna was a low dipole about 15 feet off the
ground.  It was about the worst possible setup you could have and still
claim you were on the air.

I did manage to get a few answers to CQs even with that setup.  Each and
every QSO was like Gold - and I was heard as far away as New Mexico
(couldn't quite reach to Texas).

This weekend - I have much better antennas and will operate 14 hours high
power with K7RAT - but put in a few hours QRP with N6TR and see what I can
work.  It's fun giving out the 4X multiplier to those who have cleaned out
their ears for the contest.

73 Tree N6TR

On Fri, Dec 25, 2015 at 8:39 AM, <kolson at rcn.com> wrote:

>
> What would be much more fair is to go by ERP. 5 watts from one of tho se
> sophisticated antenna farms may very well be stronger than 100w or even
> 600w from, let's say, a Butte rnut with a vestigial radial field. T he
> Butternut guy gets no consideration (in fact, generally he gets derision)
> but the (often louder) 5 watt guy is hailed as  a great big QRP hero (hi
> hi) . Somehow, r unning a compromise antenna marks us as not caring but
> running QRP is "noble".
>
> To me, the weird thing is that, at least for most of us running compromise
> antennas, our choice is made out of the necessities of real life, that is,
> we do what we can do from a small lot or an antenna restricted development
>  or where zoning laws are especially hostile to amateur antennas. In some
> cases , it's may even be a concession to a neighbor that be insan e (don't
> ask me how I know). The decision to use 5 watts, on the other hand,  is
> basically whim. M ost of our radios output 100w out of the box, so one
> operates at 5 watts because he wants to, not because he has to.  A nd there
> are plenty of reasonably priced used  600w+ amps available if one wants
> even more power that basically only  take desk space, no zoning required.
>
> 73, Kevin K3OX
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: "Milt" <miltn5ia at gmail.com>
> To: topband at contesting.com, "Robert Harmon" <k6uj at pacbell.net>
> Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2015 8:59:13 PM
> Subject: Re: Topband: ARRL 160CW Contest QRP Portable Op
>
> Hmmm.  If that is the case, then QRP should NOT be used on any band for
> contesting or otherwise.  That is the name of the game; dig out the weak
> ones.
>
> I personally have nothing against QRP, having operated QRP in the Stew
> Perry
> contest for 16 of the 19 runnings.  I even have a plaque on the wall for #1
> World operating QRP.
>
> IMHO the SPDC is the BEST contest to use QRP because #1-You get more points
> per given Q, and #2-The other station gets equal compensation in points for
> copying your QRP signal.  What could be more fair?
>
> CU all in the SPDC as N7GP during my daylight hours and as N5IA during the
> core night time 14 hours.  I will make the best effort to put every caller
> in the logs; even the real strong QRP guys and the QRO stations I can
> barely
> discern through the din, static and fades receive equal treatment.
>
> 73, and Merry Christmas to everyone everywhere.
>
> de Milt, N5IA
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robert Harmon
> Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2015 6:43 PM
> To: topband at contesting.com
> Subject: Re: Topband: ARRL 160CW Contest QRP Portable Op
>
> Herb,
>
> I feel the same way.
> I have nothing against QRP, but for me personally I don't have the
> desire to
> handicap myself with QRP power especially on 160.  It doesn't seem fair
> to me for the guy
> on the other end to be burdened with trying to dig my weak signal out so
> I can make another
> contact.  ( Just my opinion, guys. )
>
> 73,
> Bob
> K6UJ
>
> On 12/24/15 3:44 PM, Herbert Schoenbohm wrote:
> > Peter, If you think calling CQ in a contest while  running 5 watts and
> not
> > getting a single reply is fun then have at it. Working some stations with
> > 100 watts is more fun for me.
> >
> >
> > Herb Schoenbohm, KV4FZ
>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

From k6xyz at sbcglobal.net  Fri Dec 25 12:06:16 2015
From: k6xyz at sbcglobal.net (David Harmon)
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2015 11:06:16 -0600
Subject: Topband: A brief Boring report
In-Reply-To: <CAKF9HhaMx+bK4sbJjjNFo4fMA3oLaQK+0zg-FotfYw4D15dtLg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKF9HhaMx+bK4sbJjjNFo4fMA3oLaQK+0zg-FotfYw4D15dtLg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <002401d13f36$921727f0$b64577d0$@sbcglobal.net>

One of my Elmers was Norm Koch K6ZDL (SK).....a true CW expert who looked
like a Marine Corps recruiter picture.
I observed him operate CW many times on 80 and TB.
He helped many of us new guys learn high speed CW back in the late 50's and
early 60's.
I mention this because Tree said a certain callsign tickled his ear......it
tickled my ear as well.


73

David Harmon
K6XYZ
Sperry, OK

-----Original Message-----
From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Tree
Sent: Friday, December 25, 2015 10:30 AM
To: 160 <topband at contesting.com>
Subject: Topband: A brief Boring report

The HQ for the Boring report has moved to Hillsboro, Oregon - but alas - the
reports are still Boring.

During the ARRL 160 - at 1500Z - on Sunday - when the rate was near zero - a
very familiar callsign ticked my ear drums.  It was W0ZTL.

There are many callsigns that I remember from the "old" days on Topband
(let's call that pre-1980) - and W0ZTL is certainly one of them.  I have
Alex's QSL card from 1975 here as I write this - sent to my Mom's address -
with an eight cent stamp on it.  Just for sentimental purposes - I sent a
new QSL to him for this most recent QSO - and received a prompt reply.

He has been on the air since 1937 and is less than two years away from his
100th birthday.  It's always such a pleasure to hear old friends like this
on the band.   He always seems to call in well after his sunrise - but
always with a good signal on an otherwise lonely band.

Thanks for being there Alex.  I hope to work you many more times on Topband.

73 Tree N6TR
_________________
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


From jim at audiosystemsgroup.com  Fri Dec 25 12:07:28 2015
From: jim at audiosystemsgroup.com (Jim Brown)
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2015 09:07:28 -0800
Subject: Topband: ARRL 160CW Contest QRP Portable Op
In-Reply-To: <677929785.138320971.1451061591172.JavaMail.root@rcn.com>
References: <677929785.138320971.1451061591172.JavaMail.root@rcn.com>
Message-ID: <567D77D0.4010401@audiosystemsgroup.com>

On Fri,12/25/2015 8:39 AM, kolson at rcn.com wrote:
> What would be much more fair is to go by ERP. 5 watts from one of tho se sophisticated antenna farms may very well be stronger than 100w or even 600w from, let's say, a Butte rnut with a vestigial radial field.

As a guy who worked 160M from a Chicago city lot, I feel your pain. BUT 
-- QRP is about operating skill and antenna farms, both TX and RX. The 
Stew Perry rules reward the TX station for his TX antenna and skills, 
and the RX station for his RX antenna and skills.

And I can tell you that 160M contesting with a mediocre antenna and/or 
QRP is MUCH easier from Chicago than from W6, because the distances to 
areas of high ham population density are so much shorter. And for the 
same reason, it's even easier from W1/2/3.

73, Jim K9YC

From mort.g2jl at ntlworld.com  Fri Dec 25 12:09:49 2015
From: mort.g2jl at ntlworld.com (Mort)
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2015 17:09:49 -0000
Subject: Topband: ARRL 160CW Contest QRP Portable Op
References: <677929785.138320971.1451061591172.JavaMail.root@rcn.com>
Message-ID: <37A383571B4747AF89E585D66ADCE3D3@experimental>

I agree wholeheartedly;  It sticks in my craw when I hear oafs signing  "/QRP" and expecting others to take pity & do their work for them,  with liquid-helium-cooled stacked rhombics & so on.

Nobody returns to me when I sign "G2JL / PPA"  (pretty poor antenna).

I reckon anyone using QRP for reasons other than RFI or penury is a Masochist.  As a Sadist,  I ought to be kind to Masochists,  but I have my limits,  like when my blood boils.

QAC  -  Mort,  G2JL

From jim at audiosystemsgroup.com  Fri Dec 25 12:16:38 2015
From: jim at audiosystemsgroup.com (Jim Brown)
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2015 09:16:38 -0800
Subject: Topband: ARRL 160CW Contest QRP Portable Op
In-Reply-To: <37A383571B4747AF89E585D66ADCE3D3@experimental>
References: <677929785.138320971.1451061591172.JavaMail.root@rcn.com>
	<37A383571B4747AF89E585D66ADCE3D3@experimental>
Message-ID: <567D79F6.2070802@audiosystemsgroup.com>

On Fri,12/25/2015 9:09 AM, Mort wrote:
> I hear oafs signing  "/QRP"

I NEVER work any lid signing /QRP.

73, Jim K9YC

From k2owr at comcast.net  Fri Dec 25 12:22:07 2015
From: k2owr at comcast.net (K4OWR)
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2015 12:22:07 -0500
Subject: Topband: Stew operating times?
Message-ID: <567D7B3F.2030407@comcast.net>

:::: What operating times are recommended?
Since it's 1500-1500, and I need to pick 14 hours, I'm guessing about 
6PM Sat to 8AM Sun ??? In order to maximize propogation?
BILL K4OWR

From richard at karlquist.com  Fri Dec 25 12:27:01 2015
From: richard at karlquist.com (Richard (Rick) Karlquist)
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2015 09:27:01 -0800
Subject: Topband: QRPers calling CQ in the SP ?
In-Reply-To: <SN1PR16MB06235AC4EF3E50527B19C96DF0F80@SN1PR16MB0623.namprd16.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CAFmfzDsFqzk66C=zSn+kwZbxRumE0+bWfxmf1dG=zqYixywaZQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<750734108.2578599.1450982830093.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
	<CAFmfzDt4TRR9QhXrs8FF7owktzS56Q704usjK4ko9t1o9RqQ5g@mail.gmail.com>
	<567C5023.5070401@audiosystemsgroup.com>
	<SN1PR16MB06235AC4EF3E50527B19C96DF0F80@SN1PR16MB0623.namprd16.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <567D7C65.2060309@karlquist.com>

Here is my 2 cents worth:

1.  Running QRP with a decent antenna makes sense.
W6JTI runs up great QRP scores from his mountain
top.  N7WG worked tirelessly to get a 50 foot
vertical up on a postage stamp lot in the SF
Bay Area and was a fixture in 160 meter contests
for years.  He even achieved 160 meter WAS QRP.
I used to work him on ground wave from 50 miles
away at 2PM local time using my Bay Area beverage.

The opposite philosophy was famously KH6DX/6 who
ran up amazing scores from his mobile station.
One year he parked on the North Dakota/South
Dakota boundary and gave out two rare mults
with every QSO. He even achieved DXCC mobile
on 160 meters, probably the only one. But he
ran 800 watts. (He seems to have vanished from
top band since completing DXCC, but I recently
worked him in an HF contest, where he was back
in Hawaii.)

These kinds of operations make sense.  What
doesn't make sense is QRP to a random wire
in the basement, etc.  Save all of us, and
yourself the frustration, and at least run
100 watts.  You'll still be nearly inaudible.

2.  Rather than a QRP calling frequency, which
as has been pointed out, the QRO stations are
unaware of (I know I was until this week),
a "rally time" would make more sense, like
top of the hour as has been suggested.
Speaking of time, if you are a QRP'er on the
east coast, we aren't going to hear you on the
west coast until something like 0800Z, or
midnight your time.  Don't assume the band
has dried up and go to bed early.  Or as K9YC
likes to recommend, get up an hour before your
sunrise.  Here on the west coast, we'll be
listening carefully for JA's, but also check
for the east coast. Possibly 0800Z and 1200Z
(sun rise peak) would make good rally times
for coast to coast.

3. By all means call CQ.  I usually run low
power in contests because I can normally work
99% of what I can hear.  (I am always working
on better receive antennas.)  I disregard
the fact that I am running low power and CQ
anyway.  I expect to get run off my frequency
occasionally, but I know that I must CQ or
miss working all the S&P only stations.  I
usually get some JA's to call me (they never
CQ, except maybe JA3YBK).  One year JA3YBK
called me at 0800Z at his sunset.  Another year
a VK6 called me at 1100Z.  I don't know how
much of this carries over to QRP, but its
worth considering.

4.  CQ high up in the band to get a clear
frequency.  If the phone ops don't like it,
they can go above 1900.  I tune up to at
least 1850 and call any station I can hear,
no matter how weak.  You just never can tell if
he can copy unless you try.  I have been
surprised by weak stations who came
right back to me.  There is a phenomenon
I have noticed that it seems like ops tune
up the band, and then stop as soon as a few
kHz go by without a signal.  This forces me
to choose a CQ frequency in the congested area.
When S&Ping, tune up to at least 1850 or even
beyond.

4.  Don't skimp on receiving antennas, thinking
that you are limited by your transmit signal.  You
need good receive antennas to work QRP to QRP.
Also, it is a lot easier to get make a difficult
QSO if only one direction is marginal.  If you
are not loud, and also can't hear well, it will
be much more difficult.

5.  When I hear an extremely weak signal, I don't
know if the station is QRP, has a poor antenna,
or has an out of district call, etc.  In the big
DX contests, the DXpeditions post themselves on
an "announced operations" web page  It might be useful
for QRP stations to announce before the contest
that they are QRP.  I try to handle out of district
call signs by using a "call history" file, although
I can remember many of them from previous contests.
(You still have to actually copy the QTH as
a check on the call history file).  If I hear
a weak W6, he may be QRP, or he may be in the
ground wave area, or he may be on the east coast.

6.  If you are running QRP, don't compound the
problem by being a clueless operator.  Call zero
beat when it makes sense, call with a strategic
frequency offset when that makes sense.  Don't
send any unnecessary information.  Send at 20
to 24 WPM.  Faster might be too hard to copy.
Slower runs the risk that your signal fades out
before I can get the whole call.  Send all CW
from your computer logging program.  Nothing is
worse than a nearly inaudible signal where the
op makes sending errors, is using a bug, etc.
Run a band map and check back in with stations
that you couldn't work 15 minutes ago.  Sorry
for the lecture; most of you are probably already
doing the right thing.

7.  Just for you QRP'ers, for the upcoming SP
contest, I have resurrected my 40 foot perimeter
receiving loop at the back corner of the property,
1/4 mile from the power lines along the road, and
farther than that to any other lines.  My two
neighbors to the rear live at the other end of
their 80 acre farms.  I hope this helps.  It
does seem to hear better, especially in terms
of power line trash, than the loop by the shack
that is only 300 feet back from the road.  It's
so quiet, I need to use a preamp with it (that's
a good sign).  I am using the preamp that came
with my Pixel loop.  That's the best part of
that product, hi.

See you all in the contest.

Rick N6RK

From dj7ww at t-online.de  Fri Dec 25 12:34:55 2015
From: dj7ww at t-online.de (Peter Voelpel)
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2015 18:34:55 +0100
Subject: Topband: ARRL 160CW Contest QRP Portable Op
In-Reply-To: <567D79F6.2070802@audiosystemsgroup.com>
References: <677929785.138320971.1451061591172.JavaMail.root@rcn.com><37A383571B4747AF89E585D66ADCE3D3@experimental>
	<567D79F6.2070802@audiosystemsgroup.com>
Message-ID: <9DCC87B2462B4909844F7EE663294DC3@SHACK>

In Germany it is by rule of our authorities not use to use other appendages
then /m /mm /am or /p.
But there are always some rule breakers... 

73
Peter 

-----Original Message-----
From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Jim Brown
Sent: Freitag, 25. Dezember 2015 18:17
To: topband at contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: ARRL 160CW Contest QRP Portable Op

On Fri,12/25/2015 9:09 AM, Mort wrote:
> I hear oafs signing  "/QRP"

I NEVER work any lid signing /QRP.

73, Jim K9YC
_________________
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


From jim at audiosystemsgroup.com  Fri Dec 25 12:37:17 2015
From: jim at audiosystemsgroup.com (Jim Brown)
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2015 09:37:17 -0800
Subject: Topband: Stew operating times?
In-Reply-To: <567D7B3F.2030407@comcast.net>
References: <567D7B3F.2030407@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <567D7ECD.5040901@audiosystemsgroup.com>

On Fri,12/25/2015 9:22 AM, K4OWR wrote:
> Since it's 1500-1500, and I need to pick 14 hours, I'm guessing about 
> 6PM Sat to 8AM Sun ??? In order to maximize propogation?

It depends on your QTH. Here in W6/W7, the Stew begins just before our 
sunrise, so most of us start out at 1500 hoping to work JA. By 1600, 
there's nothing but locals, so we QRT until an hour or so before our 
sunset.

 From your QTH in central TN, you'll probably want to start an hour or 
so before sunset Saturday, and operate through the night until an hour 
or so after sunrise, taking breaks for dinner and social time with the 
XYL. Remember that the hour or so either side of sunrise and sunset are 
peak times for DX, so you'll want to be on the air. Around sunset and in 
the evening, you'll have peak opportunities to work east; around 
sunrise, to the west. And both times, good propagation N and S.

73, Jim K9YC

From robb at robbwebbphotography.co.uk  Fri Dec 25 12:54:14 2015
From: robb at robbwebbphotography.co.uk (Robb Webb Proprietor of Robb Webb Photography)
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2015 17:54:14 +0000
Subject: Topband: re topband QRP
Message-ID: <266D799D-238D-488A-89B9-1745B78F9D3E@robbwebbphotography.co.uk>

So what should I sign 
G0URR/QRP/P
G0URR/P 

How else do I let you out there know I'm a QRP station. 

I will be on for tomorrow's Stew with an inverted L with a 30ft vertical portion 100ft above the sea on a cliff !! 

Hoping for good things

Robb 
G0URR 

Robb Webb Photography
Bringing Photography to life
Mobile: 07891 575892


From k2av.guy at gmail.com  Fri Dec 25 13:03:35 2015
From: k2av.guy at gmail.com (Guy Olinger K2AV)
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2015 13:03:35 -0500
Subject: Topband: QRPers calling CQ in the SP ?
In-Reply-To: <SN1PR16MB06235AC4EF3E50527B19C96DF0F80@SN1PR16MB0623.namprd16.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CAFmfzDsFqzk66C=zSn+kwZbxRumE0+bWfxmf1dG=zqYixywaZQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<750734108.2578599.1450982830093.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
	<CAFmfzDt4TRR9QhXrs8FF7owktzS56Q704usjK4ko9t1o9RqQ5g@mail.gmail.com>
	<567C5023.5070401@audiosystemsgroup.com>
	<SN1PR16MB06235AC4EF3E50527B19C96DF0F80@SN1PR16MB0623.namprd16.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CANckpc3F2O2xEGoHCaEnM-gVt30tvth7=Yb0cxtR0POcSKAk2w@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Dec 25, 2015 at 6:46 AM, James Rodenkirch <Rodenkirch_LLC at msn.com>
wrote:

> Those suggested "QRP watering hole freqs" do nothing but undermine and
> constrain, mentally, the typical QRP operator's ability to make Qs, whether
> in a contest or not.


Indeed.

The thing to remember is that the calling frequencies are intended for lean
QSO times, as in weekday afternoons and evenings so that those looking for
QRP can find them, or those calling can have a chance at being heard
because other stations check there first.

The QRP calling frequencies are to call, connect, then move off, so someone
else can use the calling frequency. They are not designated QRP parking
spots. They are not a cage for weak signals.

PARTICULARLY in the Stew Perry, where you get points for WORKING a QRP
station, folks will be looking for weak signals calling CQ. If it only
takes them three times as long to work a QRP, they are AHEAD of the game.
At this point, other than admittedly lower rates, the main distinction
between QRO and QRP is that for QRP search and pounce in the early hours is
not so good an idea. Call CQ instead. Stay on the high end, and move up and
down to be above the mob but not TOO far above the mob. CQ SP K9XYZ K9XYZ.
The "CQ" will make sure the skimmers pick you up for contest spotting. Keep
your exchanges lean. Do NOT repeat the exchange unless asked. Only send the
grid square in the exchange. Don't send anything they don't have to put in
the log, other than his call sign, and that only once per contest QSO. If
you're quick, people will wait to work you.

CQ SP K2AV K2AV   (running QRP, CQ SP ticks the skimmers, that's for the
stations using assistance.)

K9YC  (answer to CQ)

K9YC FM05  (my minimum transmission)

NR? (he didn't get it, I've gone into a fade)

FM05  (bare minimum repeat)

NR? (still didn't copy)

FM05 FM05  (send twice on third send)

TU CM87 (he got it, his grid)

TU K2AV (minimum, minimum)

Note that if there is a station waiting for this QSO to complete he will
likely have already copied your grid square. The only way to take advantage
of that is to send the absolute bare minimum. The faster you are when your
signal is in the open while the QSB is up, the better the score.

QRP calling CQ is contained in the same non-intuitive class of confounding
truths as QRP needing QRO tuners and antennas where loss has been
minimized. Loss hurts QRO by burning things up, the same loss hurts QRP by
further dragging down the transmitted signal. And the most important piece
of equipment for a 160 QRP station is an efficient antenna counterpoise.
160, especially, is really not the band for noodle antennas and noodle
counterpoises.

A listener's worst nightmare: a QRP station with micro tuner using coils of
AWG 28 wire, a wire stapled to the basement rafters as an antenna, a city
water pipe counterpoise, and always signing /QRP to make copying the call
doubly hard. If you must have such a station, then you must. Just please
don't sign /QRP.

See you in the Stew.

73, Guy K2AV

From jim at audiosystemsgroup.com  Fri Dec 25 13:06:49 2015
From: jim at audiosystemsgroup.com (Jim Brown)
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2015 10:06:49 -0800
Subject: Topband: QRPers calling CQ in the SP ?
In-Reply-To: <567D7C65.2060309@karlquist.com>
References: <CAFmfzDsFqzk66C=zSn+kwZbxRumE0+bWfxmf1dG=zqYixywaZQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<750734108.2578599.1450982830093.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
	<CAFmfzDt4TRR9QhXrs8FF7owktzS56Q704usjK4ko9t1o9RqQ5g@mail.gmail.com>
	<567C5023.5070401@audiosystemsgroup.com>
	<SN1PR16MB06235AC4EF3E50527B19C96DF0F80@SN1PR16MB0623.namprd16.prod.outlook.com>
	<567D7C65.2060309@karlquist.com>
Message-ID: <567D85B9.2040608@audiosystemsgroup.com>

Rick has provided excellent advice on all counts. A few comments -- 
W6JTI and N6WG are both superb operators -- W6JTI, W6GJB, and I worked 
FD together this year QRP, and won class 1A Battery, and Frank regularly 
turns in great scores -- 3830 lists him as the top QRP score west of 
Chicago for CQWWCW, top QRP score in ARRL 10M,  #2 west of Chicago in 
ARRL DX CW. N6WG has been inactive for several years -- his XYL has had 
health issues.

Second, emphasizing Rick's advice for a QRP op to NEVER send anything 
extra, and NEVER repeat anything the other station has copied correctly. 
Once he's got your call right, NEVER send it again, only send your 
exchange, and ONLY send parts of the exchange that the other station 
hasn't gotten right.  Example -- if I'm being copied as K0YC, I'll send 
"K9 K9 K9". If he's got my call right, I'll send only "CM87", and if 
he's having a hard time (he's asked for repeats more than once), I'll 
repeat it several times without his asking. Likewise, in ARRL 160, I'll 
send only "SCV" as a repeat.  Remember, making a successful QSO means 
catching the PEAKS of QSB -- don't waste time sending anything 
un-necessary.

Third, successful QRP requires catching optimum propagation times, and 
prop on 160 can vary a LOT during the night and from one night to 
another in ways that aren't predictable.  It's worth studying chapters 
in the ON4UN book that address propagation.

73, Jim K9YC

On Fri,12/25/2015 9:27 AM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist wrote:
> Here is my 2 cents worth:
>
> 1.  Running QRP with a decent antenna makes sense.
> W6JTI runs up great QRP scores from his mountain
> top.  N7WG worked tirelessly to get a 50 foot
> vertical up on a postage stamp lot in the SF
> Bay Area and was a fixture in 160 meter contests
> for years.  He even achieved 160 meter WAS QRP.
> I used to work him on ground wave from 50 miles
> away at 2PM local time using my Bay Area beverage.


From mort.g2jl at ntlworld.com  Fri Dec 25 13:08:57 2015
From: mort.g2jl at ntlworld.com (Mort)
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2015 18:08:57 -0000
Subject: Topband: re topband QRP
References: <266D799D-238D-488A-89B9-1745B78F9D3E@robbwebbphotography.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3DF4370601CF42A0BD095FCB30BCE8A1@experimental>

"How else do I let you out there know I'm a QRP station."

You don't;  it's your choice,  or it's forced on U,  as many of us have high noise,  rabidly anti-ham councils,  vandalistic neighbours and so on.

There are poor,  inept, operators and have little time but we don't expect others to make special allowances for us.

That raises an interesting point;  what ARE we expected to do ?  It's like those ludicrous annoying "Baby on board" signs;  So what ?  It is known what causes it;  it's not my fault.

One is reminded of the offensively patronising farewell:  "Take care".

One is tempted to answer,  "Well,  I wasn't going to,  but since you order it..."

73  -  Mort,  G2JL

From jim at audiosystemsgroup.com  Fri Dec 25 13:12:10 2015
From: jim at audiosystemsgroup.com (Jim Brown)
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2015 10:12:10 -0800
Subject: Topband: re topband QRP
In-Reply-To: <266D799D-238D-488A-89B9-1745B78F9D3E@robbwebbphotography.co.uk>
References: <266D799D-238D-488A-89B9-1745B78F9D3E@robbwebbphotography.co.uk>
Message-ID: <567D86FA.5090108@audiosystemsgroup.com>

On Fri,12/25/2015 9:54 AM, Robb Webb Proprietor of Robb Webb Photography 
wrote:
> How else do I let you out there know I'm a QRP station.

You DON'T. I don't care -- all I want is your QSO.

In Stew Perry, where we get points for working a QRP station, those 
points are awarded by log checking when the QRP station turns in a log.

73, Jim K9YC

From lew at dsl-only.net  Fri Dec 25 13:20:07 2015
From: lew at dsl-only.net (Lew Sayre)
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2015 10:20:07 -0800
Subject: Topband: re topband QRP
In-Reply-To: <266D799D-238D-488A-89B9-1745B78F9D3E@robbwebbphotography.co.uk>
References: <266D799D-238D-488A-89B9-1745B78F9D3E@robbwebbphotography.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CA+6hS7gX+k4EKw14UjBwM85Jz54JotrCR=B6XOVQYcb+msEKhA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Robb,
    Please sign only your call- G0URR-   without any other letters or
numbers.
Where the QRP business comes in, is in your submitted log where you note
your
power level.  That is where the power levels matter to yourself and to the
others
for scoring purposes. Same goes for your grid square locator.
      When I am trying to work you from West Coast USA getting your call
will be difficult
and your grid square will be nearly impossible.  Adding /qrp  or /just
married  or /just paroled
only makes the exchange more difficult and is totally unnecessary.
    So...be sure to peruse the plaque list on the web site and note any
particular plaques you may qualify for
and properly fill out the log headers so we know your power situation,
location and call in your submitted log.
     73 and I remain,
   Lew    w7ew
The Boring Amateur Radio Club Committee on QRP Designations


On Fri, Dec 25, 2015 at 9:54 AM, Robb Webb Proprietor of Robb Webb
Photography <robb at robbwebbphotography.co.uk> wrote:

> So what should I sign
> G0URR/QRP/P
> G0URR/P
>
> How else do I let you out there know I'm a QRP station.
>
> I will be on for tomorrow's Stew with an inverted L with a 30ft vertical
> portion 100ft above the sea on a cliff !!
>
> Hoping for good things
>
> Robb
> G0URR
>
> Robb Webb Photography
> Bringing Photography to life
> Mobile: 07891 575892
>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>

From ve9aa at nbnet.nb.ca  Fri Dec 25 13:26:35 2015
From: ve9aa at nbnet.nb.ca (Mike Smith VE9AA)
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2015 14:26:35 -0400
Subject: Topband: re topband QRP
Message-ID: <001a01d13f41$daa22aa0$8fe67fe0$@nbnet.nb.ca>

Do not ever EVER sign /QRP !!!  You are already most probably weak.  It is
NOT part of your callsign and worst of all, it wastes time.

PLEASE !

 

73 de Mike VE9AA

-         - - - - - - - - - - -- 

So what should I sign 

G0URR/QRP/P

G0URR/P 

 

How else do I let you out there know I'm a QRP station. 

 

I will be on for tomorrow's Stew with an inverted L with a 30ft vertical 

portion 100ft above the sea on a cliff !! 

 

Hoping for good things

 

Robb 

G0URR 

 

Robb Webb Photography

Bringing Photography to life

Mobile: 07891 575892

 

Mike, Coreen & Corey

Keswick Ridge, NB

 


From ve9aa at nbnet.nb.ca  Fri Dec 25 13:34:27 2015
From: ve9aa at nbnet.nb.ca (Mike Smith VE9AA)
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2015 14:34:27 -0400
Subject: Topband: a plaque for all you NINE's out there in the Stew
Message-ID: <001f01d13f42$f3c65d70$db531850$@nbnet.nb.ca>

I just sponsored a plaque (waiting for the money to transfer) but here's one
for anyone with a 9 in their callsign (as heard on the air), regardless of
where you are Worldwide.

 

".Real Live Wire 9's with up to 9 Live Wires - Top Score Worldwide, 9 heard
in callsign using up to and including 9 wires."

 

No aluminum or steel 4 squares made of towers or folks in 9 land but with a
different number in their call. 

 

Good luck nines !  This ones for you.

 

Mike VE9AA

 

 

 

 

 

Mike, Coreen & Corey

Keswick Ridge, NB

 


From keepwalking188 at ac0c.com  Fri Dec 25 13:38:08 2015
From: keepwalking188 at ac0c.com (Jeff AC0C)
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2015 12:38:08 -0600
Subject: Topband: re topband QRP
In-Reply-To: <001a01d13f41$daa22aa0$8fe67fe0$@nbnet.nb.ca>
References: <001a01d13f41$daa22aa0$8fe67fe0$@nbnet.nb.ca>
Message-ID: <92941440B9814D64BC6A0C2BEAEAED0C@w520>

Amen.

73/jeff/ac0c
www.ac0c.com
alpha-charlie-zero-charlie

-----Original Message----- 
From: Mike Smith VE9AA 
Sent: Friday, December 25, 2015 12:26 PM 
To: topband at contesting.com 
Subject: Re: Topband: re topband QRP 

Do not ever EVER sign /QRP !!!  You are already most probably weak.  It is
NOT part of your callsign and worst of all, it wastes time.

PLEASE !



73 de Mike VE9AA

-         - - - - - - - - - - -- 

So what should I sign 

G0URR/QRP/P

G0URR/P 



How else do I let you out there know I'm a QRP station. 



I will be on for tomorrow's Stew with an inverted L with a 30ft vertical 

portion 100ft above the sea on a cliff !! 



Hoping for good things



Robb 

G0URR 



Robb Webb Photography

Bringing Photography to life

Mobile: 07891 575892



Mike, Coreen & Corey

Keswick Ridge, NB



_________________
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

From tshoppa at gmail.com  Fri Dec 25 13:40:53 2015
From: tshoppa at gmail.com (Tim Shoppa)
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2015 13:40:53 -0500
Subject: Topband: re topband QRP
In-Reply-To: <266D799D-238D-488A-89B9-1745B78F9D3E@robbwebbphotography.co.uk>
References: <266D799D-238D-488A-89B9-1745B78F9D3E@robbwebbphotography.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CAJ_qRvYW4u_pChdz=eBaL9u_-ViEv-oB3GLsTUF326oqDDan_Q@mail.gmail.com>

Do not sign /QRP.

If your country's rules require you to, do sign /P.

Do send your log in and make sure CATEGORY-POWER says you are QRP.

Many of us look at the stew perry score summaries as they are
released/updated, and I take special delight in finding out which were QRP
stations and the best QRP-distance I worked.

A commenter in the other thread had it right... QRP out to 800 miles is
usually easier than working a high power station at 3500 miles.

Strongly recommend anyone who wants to try QRP 160, try out the NAQCC 160M
QRP Sprint: http://www.naqcc.info/sprint201601_160.html

Tim N3QE

On Fri, Dec 25, 2015 at 12:54 PM, Robb Webb Proprietor of Robb Webb
Photography <robb at robbwebbphotography.co.uk> wrote:

> So what should I sign
> G0URR/QRP/P
> G0URR/P
>
> How else do I let you out there know I'm a QRP station.
>
> I will be on for tomorrow's Stew with an inverted L with a 30ft vertical
> portion 100ft above the sea on a cliff !!
>
> Hoping for good things
>
> Robb
> G0URR
>
> Robb Webb Photography
> Bringing Photography to life
> Mobile: 07891 575892
>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>

From w7dra at juno.com  Fri Dec 25 13:41:42 2015
From: w7dra at juno.com (w7dra at juno.com)
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2015 10:41:42 -0800
Subject: Topband: QRPers calling CQ in the SP ?
Message-ID: <AABMH5DTKADFSRFS@smtpout02.vgs.untd.com>

well, i am not at my daughters house in Aberdeen WA yet, but they have a
basement room right next to a tall tree, so i can get somewhat of a
vertical with two crinkled radials out the basement window and not bother
the rest of the Christmas festivities

i have a powerful 6AG7/2x 807 rig with a 36 pound power supply but i am
remiss of disturbing any working radio set up in the ham shack. the
6AU6/5763 was sitting on a shelf along with the NC125, fair game not
disturbing (make that destroying, dropping, or breaking) any operational
rig.

i have 1804, 1808, 1822, 1825, and 1828 rocks along with several
politically incorrect (1978, 1987, 1993) i probably won't be using.

i don't expect VE3CX or N8OO will be answering my CQs like in the ARRL
160, but i will be down there pounding away anyway

mike w7dra/7

____________________________________________________________
Ally Bank, Member FDIC
Consistently competitive rates, 24/7 customer care, Member FDIC
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/567d8e2950d8be297475st02vuc

From ve9aa at nbnet.nb.ca  Fri Dec 25 13:43:27 2015
From: ve9aa at nbnet.nb.ca (Mike Smith VE9AA)
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2015 14:43:27 -0400
Subject: Topband: Contest fills
Message-ID: <002401d13f44$3741cc00$a5c56400$@nbnet.nb.ca>

All this QRP talk had me coming up with more nugget of advice on top of the
great suggestions Rick N6RK has already made.

A word of advice especially for QRPers in the Stew, who will mostly be weak
and dodging the static crashes.

 

If a station sends "W1A??" and you are W1ABC, try sending BC BC BC W1ABC to
see if he gets it.

If he sends LOC LOC or GRID GRID, please please do not repeat the whole
exchange all over again. Like VE9AA de W1ABC 5NN FN41 FN41

Just repeat the FN41 part.

If he sends "FN?? FN?? or FN? Just send the 41 part.

 

IOW, just send what he asks for.  In all likelihood you are weak and he's
having a hard time.  Sending it all over again just increases the chances he
or she will miss

the element needed once again.

 

Have fun out there !

 

Mike VE9AA FN66 

 

 

 

Mike, Coreen & Corey

Keswick Ridge, NB

 


From miltn5ia at gmail.com  Fri Dec 25 13:45:31 2015
From: miltn5ia at gmail.com (Milt)
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2015 11:45:31 -0700
Subject: Topband: SPDC Plaque, Daylight Operation
In-Reply-To: <CAKF9HhaMx+bK4sbJjjNFo4fMA3oLaQK+0zg-FotfYw4D15dtLg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKF9HhaMx+bK4sbJjjNFo4fMA3oLaQK+0zg-FotfYw4D15dtLg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AB3F47B85E174BFBAA7A2C25FFB40C32@Milts2009>

Top Banders,

For those who might not have read closely the list of the numerous plaques 
being sponsored for operations in the upcoming (21 hours distant) Stew Perry 
Distance Challenge, better known as the 'Stew', I offer the following 
information about one of those plaques that I sponsor.

It is 'Highest Score Daytime operation only' plaque available to be won by 
any single operator in any part of the world.

The intent of the award of this plaque is to encourage all SPDC contestants 
to operate with another call sign outside the 14 hours of core operation. 
More operating, more FUN.  Why be limited to the 14 hours when there is fun 
to be had in another 3-4 hours, or more, during the contest period?

I have been doing this operation for a number of years, and find it 
rewarding to see what I can do while the sun is in the sky, AND to add some 
points to others' scores who are operating in darkness.

I use a club call sign of which I am the trustee for my secondary, 'daylight 
only' operation.  If the option of a club call sign is not available to you, 
then borrow a call sign from a friend, family member or otherwise.  General 
class call signs can be used anywhere in the 160 Meter band, so an Advanced 
or Extra Class call sign is not necessary.

Below is my post to 3830 from last year to refresh your memories of how I do 
it to have more fun.

The definition I provided to the Boring ARC to administer the plaque award I 
sponsor was ?Sun above the 0 degree horizon?.  The BARC not only approves of 
this type of operation, but encourages it, as it provides more activity and 
more entries in the contest.

The 2013 winner was LY5E (LY2IJ).  Last year?s winner was K8IA.  Who out 
there will be the winner of this plaque in the 20th running of the STEW?

As the sponsor of the plaque, I am not eligible to win it.  I could have won 
my own plaque each year by nearly doubling the score of the winners.  But, I 
just try to lead the way and hopefully show folks how much fun it is to 
operate as two different entities in the contest.  And also to show what 
really can be done while the sun is in the sky.

It provides more contacts for the folks already in darkness and 
participating in the core contest.  For me it would be super to have a whole 
bunch of southwest and California guys be on the air just after 0000Z and 
contact me and all the others already operating in darkness, using a 2nd 
call sign while the sun is still in the sky for them.  Then they could start 
operating the core contest, at their sunset, with another call sign.  This 
same trend can be used ahead of the terminator as it moves westward, and 
after local sunrise and an end to anyone's core operations.  That is exactly 
what LY5E (LY2IJ) did in eastern EU to win the plaque in 2013.

I have pasted below my 3830 report from 2014 for my daylight operation as 
N7GP.  This will give each of you and idea of how I do it; the time frames 
that fit for me.  I will again this year operate as N7GP during my daylight 
hours.  My core 14 hour operation will be as N5IA.  I hope to be able to 
contact many, many of you with one or the other, or BOTH call signs.

Merry Christmas to everyone in the world.

73, and good luck in the contest, de Milt, N5IA, and also operator of N7GP


==================================================================

-----Original Message----- 
From: Milt -- N5IA
Sent: Monday, December 29, 2014 10:12 AM
To: 3830 at contesting.com
Subject: N7GP daylight operation in SPDC

Stew Perry Topband Challenge

Call: N7GP
Operator(s): N5IA
Station: N5IA

Class: Single Op HP
QTH: AZ - DM52
Operating Time (hrs): 3
Remote Operation

Summary:
Total:  QSOs = 126  Total Score = 470

Club: Arizona Outlaws Contest Club

Comments:

This report is for my daylight only operation.

>From Southeast Arizona the sun is nearly one hour high in the morning sky at 
the time the contest starts.  50 minutes of operation yielded 26 Q's; 11 
LESS than 37 Qs last year.  In 2012 I made 33 Qs during this morning 
operation.

In the afternoon I started at 2230Z for 1.5 hours of operation before it was 
sundown and time to start my N5IA core operation.

The conditions were decent, but not nearly as good as last year.   60 Qs 
were made with K1LZ being the most distant; a good 8-pointer.  Krassy called 
in at 2255, a full one hour and 15 minutes before the sun set at my 
location.  Last
year, 2013, I made 51 contacts during this period (more FM & FN stations), 
and in 2012 I made 55 Qs during the same period of time.

At 1400Z I again resumed this daylight operation.  45 minutes of time as 
relatively 'New Meat' put another 44 Qs in the log.  Not bad.  Last year, 
2013, I made 31 contacts during this period, and in 2012 I made 31 Qs during 
the same period of time.  BUT, no DX other than Lloyd, KH6LC.

The recap is as follows:

2012 = 118 Qs and 504 points, with 3-JAs and 3-KH6s in the log.  KH7X was 
logged at 1444Z.

2013 = 118 Qs (yes, exactly the same as 2012) and 544 points, which was 
helped by working 5-JAs and 3-VK6s while I was in hard daylight after sunup.

2014 = 126 Qs and 470 points, and only KH6LC for DX.  The conditions were so 
poor that I copied Lloyd's call sign as K5BLC at first. I had been working 
weak W5s while the antennas were pointed east, so my mind was reading 
another W5.

So, IMHO, the propagation this year was significantly poorer overall than 
the two previous years.

And all of this has to be taken in the context that 2012 and 2013 operations 
were with a single vertical element.  This year, 2014, that single element 
had 7 sisters to assist with the TX duties.

73 to all; thanks for the Qs, and I apologize to those whom I could copy 
well enough to decipher your call sign or GS exchange.  I still have power 
line noise to deal with.  That is the next project; to improve the receive 
noise floor now that the TX capability has made me a true alligator.

CU all in CQ 160 CW in 4 weeks.

Milt, N5IA, operator of N7GP 


From daraymond at iowatelecom.net  Fri Dec 25 13:51:48 2015
From: daraymond at iowatelecom.net (David Raymond)
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2015 12:51:48 -0600
Subject: Topband: Contest fills
References: <002401d13f44$3741cc00$a5c56400$@nbnet.nb.ca>
Message-ID: <32585746ABE04D88A6EA4A64B5BA5250@radiocomputer>

Another word of advice for QRPers. . . for those that have multiple RX 
antennas in multiple directions. . .it takes a while for us to get you on 
the right antenna.  Be patient and don't give up.    73 and have fun. . 
.Dave, W0FLS
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mike Smith VE9AA" <ve9aa at nbnet.nb.ca>
To: <topband at contesting.com>
Sent: Friday, December 25, 2015 12:43 PM
Subject: Topband: Contest fills


> All this QRP talk had me coming up with more nugget of advice on top of 
> the
> great suggestions Rick N6RK has already made.
>
> A word of advice especially for QRPers in the Stew, who will mostly be 
> weak
> and dodging the static crashes.
>
>
>
> If a station sends "W1A??" and you are W1ABC, try sending BC BC BC W1ABC 
> to
> see if he gets it.
>
> If he sends LOC LOC or GRID GRID, please please do not repeat the whole
> exchange all over again. Like VE9AA de W1ABC 5NN FN41 FN41
>
> Just repeat the FN41 part.
>
> If he sends "FN?? FN?? or FN? Just send the 41 part.
>
>
>
> IOW, just send what he asks for.  In all likelihood you are weak and he's
> having a hard time.  Sending it all over again just increases the chances 
> he
> or she will miss
>
> the element needed once again.
>
>
>
> Have fun out there !
>
>
>
> Mike VE9AA FN66
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Mike, Coreen & Corey
>
> Keswick Ridge, NB
>
>
>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband 


From tshoppa at gmail.com  Fri Dec 25 13:59:38 2015
From: tshoppa at gmail.com (Tim Shoppa)
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2015 13:59:38 -0500
Subject: Topband: Stew operating times?
In-Reply-To: <567D7B3F.2030407@comcast.net>
References: <567D7B3F.2030407@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <CAJ_qRvbr1Jrd7HkCrt4JF0mF-iVTOAUXXDvhfYAfbC8Nys=qXQ@mail.gmail.com>

Last year I made a serious full-time effort from W3LPL, maybe the only
full-time effort I'll ever make in TBDC.

I looked at local sunrise/sunset times and found out that there is 14.5
hours of darkness but only 14 hours of op time.

I started about 10 minutes after my sunset and ran till about 10 minutes
after my sunrise. I was hoping to maybe catch a JA.

I took a half hour break from 0832Z to 0905Z.

My slowest half hour was 0730Z to 0800Z, where I worked only 6, but two of
them were Europeans after their sunrise (and I did not work a lot of
Europeans overall!!!)

Since scoring is weighted by distance... I was called by KH6's and VK's
around their sunset and I would not want to miss those.

If I were to do a 14-hour over again... I might start before sunset and
take two half-hour breaks after EU sunrise, and stay on longer after
sunrise to catch locals as they wake up and maybe a chance at JA.

Tim N3QE

On Fri, Dec 25, 2015 at 12:22 PM, K4OWR <k2owr at comcast.net> wrote:

> :::: What operating times are recommended?
> Since it's 1500-1500, and I need to pick 14 hours, I'm guessing about 6PM
> Sat to 8AM Sun ??? In order to maximize propogation?
> BILL K4OWR
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>

From mstangelo at comcast.net  Fri Dec 25 15:24:42 2015
From: mstangelo at comcast.net (mstangelo at comcast.net)
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2015 20:24:42 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Topband: re topband QRP
In-Reply-To: <266D799D-238D-488A-89B9-1745B78F9D3E@robbwebbphotography.co.uk>
References: <266D799D-238D-488A-89B9-1745B78F9D3E@robbwebbphotography.co.uk>
Message-ID: <957615477.7480433.1451075082171.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net>

Robb,

I operate QRP and normally give out that information as well as my power levels after the signal report.

Mike N2MS
----- Original Message -----
From: Robb Webb Proprietor of Robb Webb Photography <robb at robbwebbphotography.co.uk>
To: topband at contesting.com
Sent: Fri, 25 Dec 2015 17:54:14 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: Topband: re topband QRP

So what should I sign 
G0URR/QRP/P
G0URR/P 

How else do I let you out there know I'm a QRP station. 

I will be on for tomorrow's Stew with an inverted L with a 30ft vertical portion 100ft above the sea on a cliff !! 

Hoping for good things

Robb 
G0URR 

Robb Webb Photography
Bringing Photography to life
Mobile: 07891 575892

_________________
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


From jim at audiosystemsgroup.com  Fri Dec 25 15:50:44 2015
From: jim at audiosystemsgroup.com (Jim Brown)
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2015 12:50:44 -0800
Subject: Topband: re topband QRP
In-Reply-To: <957615477.7480433.1451075082171.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net>
References: <266D799D-238D-488A-89B9-1745B78F9D3E@robbwebbphotography.co.uk>
	<957615477.7480433.1451075082171.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <567DAC24.3050309@audiosystemsgroup.com>

On Fri,12/25/2015 12:24 PM, mstangelo at comcast.net wrote:
> I operate QRP and normally give out that information as well as my power levels after the signal report.

As a QRP op myself, I urge you to NOT do that. If I had worked to dig a 
weak signal out of the noise, I would interpret ANYTHING after R or TU 
as telling me I had miscopied something, and you are repeating it.

NEVER send anything extra.

73, Jim K9YC



From tree at kkn.net  Fri Dec 25 16:05:03 2015
From: tree at kkn.net (Tree)
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2015 13:05:03 -0800
Subject: Topband: re topband QRP
In-Reply-To: <266D799D-238D-488A-89B9-1745B78F9D3E@robbwebbphotography.co.uk>
References: <266D799D-238D-488A-89B9-1745B78F9D3E@robbwebbphotography.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CAKF9HhZmwbjJWE21aAeYcWZHgjMnAM+WrpJ+pE=bsJtt8YrfeQ@mail.gmail.com>

One note about QRP stations in the Stew.

You do not need to sign /P so that the person knows you are QRP.  What you
need to do is send in your log.  The QRP bonus is given when doing the
cross checking automatically during the log check process.

So - signing /P does not good.

Sending in your log in the QRP category is the only way to give out the 4X
multiplier.

73 Tree N6TR

On Fri, Dec 25, 2015 at 9:54 AM, Robb Webb Proprietor of Robb Webb
Photography <robb at robbwebbphotography.co.uk> wrote:

> So what should I sign
> G0URR/QRP/P
> G0URR/P
>
> How else do I let you out there know I'm a QRP station.
>
> I will be on for tomorrow's Stew with an inverted L with a 30ft vertical
> portion 100ft above the sea on a cliff !!
>
> Hoping for good things
>
> Robb
> G0URR
>
> Robb Webb Photography
> Bringing Photography to life
> Mobile: 07891 575892
>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>

From w7dra at juno.com  Fri Dec 25 16:09:48 2015
From: w7dra at juno.com (w7dra at juno.com)
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2015 13:09:48 -0800
Subject: Topband: re topband QRP
Message-ID: <AABMH5NF3A26W6Q2@smtpout02.vgs.untd.com>

i have always sent /7 or /something when i was away from the home shack.
i am too old to change now

mike w7dra

____________________________________________________________
1 Secret To Cut 15 Years Of Mortgage Payments
HARP Gives Homeowners a Once In A Lifetime Mortgage Bailout
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/567db0ba6895330b91f58st02vuc

From w8ji at w8ji.com  Fri Dec 25 16:34:29 2015
From: w8ji at w8ji.com (Tom W8JI)
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2015 16:34:29 -0500
Subject: Topband: re topband QRP
References: <266D799D-238D-488A-89B9-1745B78F9D3E@robbwebbphotography.co.uk><957615477.7480433.1451075082171.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net>
	<567DAC24.3050309@audiosystemsgroup.com>
Message-ID: <3FE8FF255D5A4E7F8EEDA634617F9BE4@MAIN>

> On Fri,12/25/2015 12:24 PM, mstangelo at comcast.net wrote:
>> I operate QRP and normally give out that information as well as my power 
>> levels after the signal report.
>
> As a QRP op myself, I urge you to NOT do that. If I had worked to dig a 
> weak signal out of the noise, I would interpret ANYTHING after R or TU as 
> telling me I had miscopied something, and you are repeating it.
>
> NEVER send anything extra.

I agree 100% with Jim on this. The only thing sending /QRP or anything 
unnecessary does is make it take longer and make it more difficult.

I honestly think a good number of people will either just ignore a station 
signing nonsense or be confused by it.

There is nothing more frustrating than trying to dig out a callsign or 
complete a contact with unnecessary meaningless stuff tacked on.

73 Tom 


From dick.bingham at gmail.com  Fri Dec 25 18:12:45 2015
From: dick.bingham at gmail.com (dick.bingham)
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2015 15:12:45 -0800
Subject: Topband: Stew Op Times
Message-ID: <A6062147-196C-4DC7-B9F5-E5587B1B8F5B@gmail.com>

Merry Christmas to everyone

Jim and Rick along with so many of you have done their antenna homework and others should emulate that sort of work.

It seems like something is always getting in the way come Stew-time. I will not be on this year. Rick's several point comments are spot-on for all 160-meter op's.

I had planned on using a half-wave balloon supported this year like I did a year or two before. I live in a CC&R antenna restriction area and used 280-feet of #30 wire as the radiator. It lived up to the EZNEC predictions and worked lots of folks toward the East earlier than what I normally experienced. Rain finally brought the balloon down and ended my participation. . .

This year, no antenna ===> no Stew . . .  I am not allowed to use my arms for the next several months due to a chest-cracking and some bypass surgery on the heart.
Have a great Stew . . .

73 Dick/w7wkr CN97uj

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Message: 8
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2015 09:37:17 -0800
From: Jim Brown <jim at audiosystemsgroup.com>
To: topband at contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Stew operating times?
Message-ID: <567D7ECD.5040901 at audiosystemsgroup.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed

> On Fri,12/25/2015 9:22 AM, K4OWR wrote:
> Since it's 1500-1500, and I need to pick 14 hours, I'm guessing about 
> 6PM Sat to 8AM Sun ??? In order to maximize propogation?

It depends on your QTH. Here in W6/W7, the Stew begins just before our 
sunrise, so most of us start out at 1500 hoping to work JA. By 1600, 
there's nothing but locals, so we QRT until an hour or so before our 
sunset.

From your QTH in central TN, you'll probably want to start an hour or 
so before sunset Saturday, and operate through the night until an hour 
or so after sunrise, taking breaks for dinner and social time with the 
XYL. Remember that the hour or so either side of sunrise and sunset are 
peak times for DX, so you'll want to be on the air. Around sunset and in 
the evening, you'll have peak opportunities to work east; around 
sunrise, to the west. And both times, good propagation N and S.

73, Jim K9YC


From jim at audiosystemsgroup.com  Fri Dec 25 21:11:55 2015
From: jim at audiosystemsgroup.com (Jim Brown)
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2015 18:11:55 -0800
Subject: Topband: Stew Op Times
In-Reply-To: <A6062147-196C-4DC7-B9F5-E5587B1B8F5B@gmail.com>
References: <A6062147-196C-4DC7-B9F5-E5587B1B8F5B@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <567DF76B.7060402@audiosystemsgroup.com>

On Fri,12/25/2015 3:12 PM, dick.bingham wrote:
> I am not allowed to use my arms for the next several months due to a chest-cracking and some bypass surgery on the heart.

Me too -- 5 weeks ago. Thanks to friends who did some antenna 
maintenance for me, I'll be on for the Stew.

73, Jim K9YC

From mda at n1en.org  Sat Dec 26 00:53:21 2015
From: mda at n1en.org (Michael Adams)
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 2015 05:53:21 +0000
Subject: Topband: QRPers calling CQ in the SP ?
In-Reply-To: <CANckpc3F2O2xEGoHCaEnM-gVt30tvth7=Yb0cxtR0POcSKAk2w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFmfzDsFqzk66C=zSn+kwZbxRumE0+bWfxmf1dG=zqYixywaZQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<750734108.2578599.1450982830093.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
	<CAFmfzDt4TRR9QhXrs8FF7owktzS56Q704usjK4ko9t1o9RqQ5g@mail.gmail.com>
	<567C5023.5070401@audiosystemsgroup.com>
	<SN1PR16MB06235AC4EF3E50527B19C96DF0F80@SN1PR16MB0623.namprd16.prod.outlook.com>
	<CANckpc3F2O2xEGoHCaEnM-gVt30tvth7=Yb0cxtR0POcSKAk2w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BN1PR0201MB054575C480CAF618CDAEDE9F92F90@BN1PR0201MB0545.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>

One thing to keep in mind: for those folks who are actually competing in SP...read Rule 6 before submitting your log.  :)

If you run afoul of Rule 6, I'm sure that checklogs, especially from LP and QRP stations, are very much appreciated.

-- 
Michael Adams | N1EN | mda at n1en.org


-----Original Message de K2AV-----

CQ SP K2AV K2AV   (running QRP, CQ SP ticks the skimmers, that's for the
stations using assistance.)

From jim at audiosystemsgroup.com  Sat Dec 26 01:37:23 2015
From: jim at audiosystemsgroup.com (Jim Brown)
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2015 22:37:23 -0800
Subject: Topband: QRPers calling CQ in the SP ?
In-Reply-To: <BN1PR0201MB054575C480CAF618CDAEDE9F92F90@BN1PR0201MB0545.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CAFmfzDsFqzk66C=zSn+kwZbxRumE0+bWfxmf1dG=zqYixywaZQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<750734108.2578599.1450982830093.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
	<CAFmfzDt4TRR9QhXrs8FF7owktzS56Q704usjK4ko9t1o9RqQ5g@mail.gmail.com>
	<567C5023.5070401@audiosystemsgroup.com>
	<SN1PR16MB06235AC4EF3E50527B19C96DF0F80@SN1PR16MB0623.namprd16.prod.outlook.com>
	<CANckpc3F2O2xEGoHCaEnM-gVt30tvth7=Yb0cxtR0POcSKAk2w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BN1PR0201MB054575C480CAF618CDAEDE9F92F90@BN1PR0201MB0545.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <567E35A3.6050701@audiosystemsgroup.com>

On Fri,12/25/2015 9:53 PM, Michael Adams wrote:
> One thing to keep in mind: for those folks who are actually competing in SP...read Rule 6 before submitting your log.

Rule 6 is quite simple. NO ASSISTANCE. No cluster. No spots. No skimmer. 
It's "a boy and his radio."

73, Jim K9YC

From w7ew at arrl.net  Sat Dec 26 11:47:58 2015
From: w7ew at arrl.net (Lew Sayre)
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 2015 08:47:58 -0800
Subject: Topband: The Stew Perry TopBand DX Challenge is Afoot!
Message-ID: <CAPqMs-=S6xKWTO3FXVdppuSstS8=VLXmmEwjkNGbSrf5=Xw51A@mail.gmail.com>

Greetings Greyline Jousters, Jesters, Gridsters and Grouches,
     The Boring Amateur Radio Club has fired the starting cannon this
morning.
The 20th Edition of The Stew Perry TopBand DX Challenge is on the air. This
contest is the perfect antidote for the Holiday Frazzles which is endemic
upon
the world currently.  You are invited to come play in this unique contest.
To learn the rules and grasp the subtleties of this unique contest, motor
to:
 www.kkn.net/stew/
     An amazing group of Donors have constituted an amazing group of
plaques which could be won by any participant if they are the top in the
category. These Donors are intelligent, philanthropic people who have
developed
a thesis for a competition with certain prerequisites within the contest.
When
you meet or interact with these Donors be sure to buy them a beverage
and congratulate them on their sagacity, wit and charm. The list below
displays their calls and the categories that they have developed for the
various
subplots for The Stew Perry.

KL7RA                            Top # of QSOs
North Pole Contest Group  To be decided
K7FL/5H2DA                    Top Score 100% Search & Pounce
KR2Q                              Golden Log Award
N0TT                                Top Score < 21y/o, >200 QSOs
K7CA                               Top Score China
TF3KX                              Aurora Borealis Award- Top Score North
                                       of 60 deg N geomagnetic Latitude
Dr. Beldar-L1AR                Top Score,S/O, Temp Antenna erected after
                                        Dec.14
VK6VZ- Flying Doctors of   Top Score- N. Hemisphere station working
      VK Baseball hat           S. Hemisphere stations
UX1UA                             Top # NA + SA Qs by Zone 16 station
UX1UA                              USA station with top # Qs with Zone 16
K6ND                                K6SE Memorial- Top Score World S/O
K1EP                                Top LP score between 30deg N & 40deg N
                                       lat  (any station located in xM##
gridsquare)
KH6LC                               VK/ZL Challenge- Top Score S/O, VK/ZL
N6TQ/A25TQ                     California Dreaming- Top # Qs with Calif
                                 stations by a non California station.
W2GD Team                       Top # Qs, NA/SA by European Station
W7RH                                Top Score, Low Power, Asia
K7CA                                 Top Score from Zone 24, 27 or 28
K7CA                                  Top Score from either Zone 19 or 25
FWDXA                              KL7RA Memorial- Top Score, LP, Central
                                          Division
NA0Y                                 Top Score North America
N9TF                                  Top Score, North America, S/O, QRP
Rochester DX Assoc.           Top Score,Low Power,S/O, Outside N. America
N7UA                                 Top Score High Power
Niagara Frontier Radiosport   Top Score,S/O,Low Power,Single Antenna
TF4M                                  Longest High Power QSO
N6TR                                  KL7RA Memorial- Top Score, Hi Power,
CQ Zone1
AA6VB                               Top Score,Big City > 50K, Little Pistol
< 100W
AA6VB                               Top Score Base Loaded Vertical < 60'
tall
N1LI- Long Island DX            Top Score from IOTA recognized Island
    Society
W0RI/W0CKC                     Top # QSOs by station in CQ Zone 14 or 15
N5IA                                   Top # of Grids worked
N5IA                                   Top Score Daylight Operation only
VE9AA                               "Real Live Wire 9's with up to 9 Live
Wires"
              Top Score Worldwide, 9 heard in callsign, using up to and
including
               9 wires
VK6GX                                "Top Score, Equatorial QRN Fighters-
station
              located between Tropics of Capricorn and Cancer

     As you have noticed there are several plaques for certain DX areas. We
hope
that fierce competition will combust worldwide during this 24 hour period.
     If you see a clear category that you feel needs to be emphasized, it
is not too
late to sponsor a plaque. Just email me at the address below. An up to date
list
of the plaques is kept at the above mentioned web site.
     The Boring Amateur Radio Club's many members and committees wish to
thank the contesting community for its support and participation.
See you in the Stew today and tonight!
  73 and I remain,
  Lew   w7ew
  The Boring Amateur Radio Club Committee on Starter Cannons
  w7ew at arrl.net

From mstangelo at comcast.net  Sat Dec 26 12:39:22 2015
From: mstangelo at comcast.net (mstangelo at comcast.net)
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 2015 17:39:22 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Topband: re topband QRP
In-Reply-To: <567DAC24.3050309@audiosystemsgroup.com>
References: <266D799D-238D-488A-89B9-1745B78F9D3E@robbwebbphotography.co.uk>
	<957615477.7480433.1451075082171.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net>
	<567DAC24.3050309@audiosystemsgroup.com>
Message-ID: <184236104.7972506.1451151562841.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net>

Jim,

I disagree. Since it is a category I find that some operators appreciate the information. It sometimes leads to a discussion about our setups.

With regards to miscopying someone. If you cannot intrepret the information sent because of a weak signal QRM or QRN you have not made a valid contact.

Mike N2MS


----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Brown <jim at audiosystemsgroup.com>
To: topband at contesting.com
Sent: Fri, 25 Dec 2015 20:50:44 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: Re: Topband: re topband QRP

On Fri,12/25/2015 12:24 PM, mstangelo at comcast.net wrote:
> I operate QRP and normally give out that information as well as my power levels after the signal report.

As a QRP op myself, I urge you to NOT do that. If I had worked to dig a 
weak signal out of the noise, I would interpret ANYTHING after R or TU 
as telling me I had miscopied something, and you are repeating 

73, Jim K9YC


_________________
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


From w8ji at w8ji.com  Sat Dec 26 13:16:33 2015
From: w8ji at w8ji.com (Tom W8JI)
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 2015 13:16:33 -0500
Subject: Topband: re topband QRP
References: <266D799D-238D-488A-89B9-1745B78F9D3E@robbwebbphotography.co.uk><957615477.7480433.1451075082171.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net><567DAC24.3050309@audiosystemsgroup.com>
	<184236104.7972506.1451151562841.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <4778AA7F0F8449A1A50CB1A50FC3E8E7@MAIN>

> I disagree. Since it is a category I find that some operators appreciate 
> the information. It sometimes leads to a discussion about our setups.
>
> With regards to miscopying someone. If you cannot intrepret the 
> information sent because of a weak signal QRM or QRN you have not made a 
> valid contact.
>

A person should never do that in a contest. Not ever.

It isn't actually even good to sign a "callsign/QRP" outside of a contest. 
It isn't a legal identifier, although it doesn't hurt anyone else as long as 
it is not a high rate or run contact series.

The real place for that in the non-contest exchange is during the ragchew. 
There is never a reason or place for it inside a contest exchange unless the 
contest makes it a mandatory part of an exchange.

I really hope people do not punish others by insisting on sending 
unnecessary, confusing, junk. That is what it would be doing, punishing 
others.

73 Tom 


From jim at audiosystemsgroup.com  Sat Dec 26 13:21:00 2015
From: jim at audiosystemsgroup.com (Jim Brown)
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 2015 10:21:00 -0800
Subject: Topband: re topband QRP
In-Reply-To: <184236104.7972506.1451151562841.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net>
References: <266D799D-238D-488A-89B9-1745B78F9D3E@robbwebbphotography.co.uk>
	<957615477.7480433.1451075082171.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net>
	<567DAC24.3050309@audiosystemsgroup.com>
	<184236104.7972506.1451151562841.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <567EDA8C.9000805@audiosystemsgroup.com>

On Sat,12/26/2015 9:39 AM, mstangelo at comcast.net wrote:

> It sometimes leads to a discussion about our setups.

Bad operating practice in most contests.

> If you cannot intrepret the information sent because of a weak signal QRM or QRN you have not made a valid contact.

A valid contact is the exchange of callsigns and one additional piece of 
information, followed by acknowledgement by both stations. When running 
QRP at the limits of propagation, that exchange can take a while.

Good operating practice in most contests is to transmit ONLY the 
required information. Anything beyond that, especially when conditions 
are marginal, is poor contest operating practice.

73, Jim K9YC

From mstangelo at comcast.net  Sat Dec 26 13:25:03 2015
From: mstangelo at comcast.net (mstangelo at comcast.net)
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 2015 18:25:03 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Topband: re topband QRP
In-Reply-To: <4778AA7F0F8449A1A50CB1A50FC3E8E7@MAIN>
References: <266D799D-238D-488A-89B9-1745B78F9D3E@robbwebbphotography.co.uk>
	<957615477.7480433.1451075082171.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net>
	<567DAC24.3050309@audiosystemsgroup.com>
	<184236104.7972506.1451151562841.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net>
	<4778AA7F0F8449A1A50CB1A50FC3E8E7@MAIN>
Message-ID: <710527040.7995946.1451154303845.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net>

Tom,

I never sign callsign/QRP.

Information about your power level is not junk. It is information about a contest category.

What is junk is the erroneous 59 or 599 signal reports during mist other contests.

You should start a campaign to urge operators to send correct signal reports.

Mike N2MS


From w7dra at juno.com  Sat Dec 26 14:00:39 2015
From: w7dra at juno.com (w7dra at juno.com)
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 2015 11:00:39 -0800
Subject: Topband: me and my big mouth
Message-ID: <AABMH73A2APC943A@smtpout01.vgs.untd.com>

the plans of mice and men

due to  sickness i will NOT be going to Aberdeen WA to work the stew
perry as w7dra/7

i WILL  be home at the noted 160 meter superstation running 7 watts input
(yes i can measure final plate voltage and current) with back up power
determination of observing a 7 1/2 watt light bulb as a load

starting at 0500z  rockbound on 1804 or 08 or 18 or 22 or 25 or 28 as the
case maybe

ah, the plans of mice and men

mike w7dra


____________________________________________________________
Fast, Secure, NetZero 4G Mobile Broadband. Try it.
http://www.netzero.net/?refcd=NZINTISP0512T4GOUT2

From mikewate at gmail.com  Sat Dec 26 18:17:35 2015
From: mikewate at gmail.com (Mike Waters)
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 2015 17:17:35 -0600
Subject: Topband: me and my big mouth
In-Reply-To: <AABMH73A2APC943A@smtpout01.vgs.untd.com>
References: <AABMH73A2APC943A@smtpout01.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <CA+FxYXj+vCOR4gbpPVyfo6_RZTEbTdzqhQ2tfG09ZKcw1yTSjg@mail.gmail.com>

Mice and men, yes ...  same here; but for a change, I actually feel good
enough to play in the contest (which I've been looking forward to all
year!).

But now is just NOT a good time to connect the antennas and power up the
equipment. Hopefully, the thunderstorms will let up soon.

This area is having record rainfall, among other things. I just came up
from the basement where I was vacuuming water off the floor near the radio
equipment. In spite of that, if the lightning lets up a little, I might try
playing in the Stew later.

To everyone else, GLITC!

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com

On Sat, Dec 26, 2015 at 1:00 PM, <w7dra at juno.com> wrote:

>  ... due to  sickness i will NOT be going to Aberdeen WA to work the stew
> perry as w7dra/7
>
> i WILL  be home at the noted 160 meter superstation running 7 watts input
>

From fraz1 at bellsouth.net  Sat Dec 26 22:32:44 2015
From: fraz1 at bellsouth.net (John Frazier)
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 2015 21:32:44 -0600
Subject: Topband: re topband QRP
In-Reply-To: <4778AA7F0F8449A1A50CB1A50FC3E8E7@MAIN>
References: <4778AA7F0F8449A1A50CB1A50FC3E8E7@MAIN>
Message-ID: <567F5BDC.3030407@bellsouth.net>

Tom, not exactly certain of your meaning of legal. But, 97.199  4(C) 
Station Identification does allow for the addition of an "indicator" to 
your FCC assigned call sign.

(c) One or more indicators may be included with the call sign. Each 
indicator must be separated from the call sign by the slant mark (/) or 
by any suitable word that denotes the slant mark. If an indicator is 
self-assigned, it must be included before, after, or both before and 
after, the call sign. No self-assigned indicator may conflict with any 
other indicator specified by the FCC Rules or with any prefix assigned 
to another country.

That aside, every good pile-up, DX and contest op I know dislikes the 
use of any self assigned indicator, including /QRP. It s l o w s things 
down and can easily create confusion, busted call signs and missed Qs.

73 John W4II

From Rodenkirch_LLC at msn.com  Sun Dec 27 07:09:24 2015
From: Rodenkirch_LLC at msn.com (James Rodenkirch)
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2015 12:09:24 +0000
Subject: Topband: A "valid" QSO????
Message-ID: <SN1PR16MB0623E9BEB52EAC7DDB40C43AF0FA0@SN1PR16MB0623.namprd16.prod.outlook.com>

Jim K9YC wrote, "A valid contact is the exchange of callsigns and one additional piece of information, followed by acknowledgement by both stations. When running QRP at the limits of propagation, that exchange can take a while."


Where would one find official documentation to support that posit?


I see some verbiage stating that in some sort of ARRL operating manual written by Mark Wilson, Jim....is that your "source of support"? I've ntalked to ARRL staff who contend one doesn't need anything other than the exchange of call signs so....I'm just "axin'"!!



72 de Jim Rodenkirch K9JWV


From w5zn at w5zn.org  Sun Dec 27 07:19:34 2015
From: w5zn at w5zn.org (Joel Harrison)
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2015 06:19:34 -0600
Subject: Topband: A "valid" QSO????
In-Reply-To: <SN1PR16MB0623E9BEB52EAC7DDB40C43AF0FA0@SN1PR16MB0623.namprd16.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SN1PR16MB0623E9BEB52EAC7DDB40C43AF0FA0@SN1PR16MB0623.namprd16.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <d702fb171fc5d0005f16a72674905218.squirrel@just120.justhost.com>

I would be very interested to know "who" at ARRL HQ told you than and
holds that position!

Is it someone in a position to render an "ARRL position"? I have always
been told, have understood and followed the same position Jim has so I'm
just curious if there was a "change" somewhere along the way when I may
have been taking a nap.

I guess exchange and acknowledgement of callsigns constitutes an "exchange
of data".

Lots of bad storms and heavy QRN here in Arkansas so not much Stew
consumption this year.

73 Joel W5ZN



> Jim K9YC wrote, "A valid contact is the exchange of callsigns and one
> additional piece of information, followed by acknowledgement by both
> stations. When running QRP at the limits of propagation, that exchange can
> take a while."
>
>
> Where would one find official documentation to support that posit?
>
>
> I see some verbiage stating that in some sort of ARRL operating manual
> written by Mark Wilson, Jim....is that your "source of support"? I've
> ntalked to ARRL staff who contend one doesn't need anything other than the
> exchange of call signs so....I'm just "axin'"!!
>
>
>
> 72 de Jim Rodenkirch K9JWV
>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>


www.w5zn.org


From j_fitton at yahoo.com  Sun Dec 27 08:09:00 2015
From: j_fitton at yahoo.com (Jim F.)
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2015 13:09:00 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Topband: Best DX QRP contact in the SP - N5IA
References: <44795085.3609675.1451221740565.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <44795085.3609675.1451221740565.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

Couldn't believe hearing N5IA before dawn this morning and 
got him in the log.
He was the furthest DX contact - by far - and to see why....Look him up on QRZ.com.? His 160m antennas are ... Amazing !
He copied my 5 watts from a condo in NH on a hidden antenna.
 Thank you Milt !!!? You made my day !
I didn't? make many QSOs but had a Blast working some of myfavorite QRP club locals on 160m.

73,?Jim? /? W1FMR

From cx6vm.jorge at gmail.com  Sun Dec 27 08:42:28 2015
From: cx6vm.jorge at gmail.com (Jorge Diez - CX6VM)
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2015 10:42:28 -0300
Subject: Topband: Best DX QRP contact in the SP - N5IA
In-Reply-To: <44795085.3609675.1451221740565.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <44795085.3609675.1451221740565.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<44795085.3609675.1451221740565.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CA+h_a7LqSG8WZ3tWm3JxBJnML16RM44PuAr3dSyUaGhPWWNk0A@mail.gmail.com>

I worked N5IA 22 minutes after my sunrise. He was very loud here.

NP2X the loudest signal all the night, picking over S9 many times!!

73,
Jorge
CX6VM/CW5W

2015-12-27 10:09 GMT-03:00 Jim F. via Topband <topband at contesting.com>:

> Couldn't believe hearing N5IA before dawn this morning and
> got him in the log.
> He was the furthest DX contact - by far - and to see why....Look him up on
> QRZ.com.  His 160m antennas are ... Amazing !
> He copied my 5 watts from a condo in NH on a hidden antenna.
>  Thank you Milt !!!  You made my day !
> I didn't  make many QSOs but had a Blast working some of myfavorite QRP
> club locals on 160m.
>
> 73, Jim  /  W1FMR
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband




-- 
73,
Jorge
CX6VM/CW5W

From Rodenkirch_LLC at msn.com  Sun Dec 27 09:21:05 2015
From: Rodenkirch_LLC at msn.com (James Rodenkirch)
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2015 14:21:05 +0000
Subject: Topband: A "valid" QSO????
In-Reply-To: <d702fb171fc5d0005f16a72674905218.squirrel@just120.justhost.com>
References: <SN1PR16MB0623E9BEB52EAC7DDB40C43AF0FA0@SN1PR16MB0623.namprd16.prod.outlook.com>,
	<d702fb171fc5d0005f16a72674905218.squirrel@just120.justhost.com>
Message-ID: <SN1PR16MB062369524C8FDC26BD25B82EF0FA0@SN1PR16MB0623.namprd16.prod.outlook.com>

I believe the gentlemen I conversed with would qualify as holding a position, Joel. I always understood a valid QSO to include receiving the otherham's call sign and the RST but both gentlemen stated an RST wasn't required...think I'lln go back and ask the question again... 

By the bye - I am referring to a every day, garden variety QSO - not a contest-related Q. 

________________________________________
From: Joel Harrison <w5zn at w5zn.org>
Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2015 5:19 AM
To: James Rodenkirch
Cc: Top Band Contesting
Subject: Re: Topband: A "valid" QSO????

I would be very interested to know "who" at ARRL HQ told you than and
holds that position!

Is it someone in a position to render an "ARRL position"? I have always
been told, have understood and followed the same position Jim has so I'm
just curious if there was a "change" somewhere along the way when I may
have been taking a nap.

I guess exchange and acknowledgement of callsigns constitutes an "exchange
of data".

Lots of bad storms and heavy QRN here in Arkansas so not much Stew
consumption this year.

73 Joel W5ZN



> Jim K9YC wrote, "A valid contact is the exchange of callsigns and one
> additional piece of information, followed by acknowledgement by both
> stations. When running QRP at the limits of propagation, that exchange can
> take a while."
>
>
> Where would one find official documentation to support that posit?
>
>
> I see some verbiage stating that in some sort of ARRL operating manual
> written by Mark Wilson, Jim....is that your "source of support"? I've
> ntalked to ARRL staff who contend one doesn't need anything other than the
> exchange of call signs so....I'm just "axin'"!!
>
>
>
> 72 de Jim Rodenkirch K9JWV
>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>


www.w5zn.org


From nn4t at comcast.net  Sun Dec 27 09:28:18 2015
From: nn4t at comcast.net (nn4t at comcast.net)
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2015 14:28:18 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Topband: A "valid" QSO????
In-Reply-To: <SN1PR16MB062369524C8FDC26BD25B82EF0FA0@SN1PR16MB0623.namprd16.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SN1PR16MB0623E9BEB52EAC7DDB40C43AF0FA0@SN1PR16MB0623.namprd16.prod.outlook.com>
	<d702fb171fc5d0005f16a72674905218.squirrel@just120.justhost.com>
	<SN1PR16MB062369524C8FDC26BD25B82EF0FA0@SN1PR16MB0623.namprd16.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <1084982667.4132453.1451226498175.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net>

For DXCC purposes a signal report is not required. In submitting a contact for credit only the call signs of the two stations, DXCC entity, time, date and mode are required. I realized this is only for one award but it is a big one. Best, Steve, NN4T 

----- Original Message -----

From: "James Rodenkirch" <Rodenkirch_LLC at msn.com> 
To: w5zn at w5zn.org 
Cc: "Top Band Contesting" <topband at contesting.com> 
Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2015 8:21:05 AM 
Subject: Re: Topband: A "valid" QSO???? 

I believe the gentlemen I conversed with would qualify as holding a position, Joel. I always understood a valid QSO to include receiving the otherham's call sign and the RST but both gentlemen stated an RST wasn't required...think I'lln go back and ask the question again... 

By the bye - I am referring to a every day, garden variety QSO - not a contest-related Q. 

________________________________________ 
From: Joel Harrison <w5zn at w5zn.org> 
Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2015 5:19 AM 
To: James Rodenkirch 
Cc: Top Band Contesting 
Subject: Re: Topband: A "valid" QSO???? 

I would be very interested to know "who" at ARRL HQ told you than and 
holds that position! 

Is it someone in a position to render an "ARRL position"? I have always 
been told, have understood and followed the same position Jim has so I'm 
just curious if there was a "change" somewhere along the way when I may 
have been taking a nap. 

I guess exchange and acknowledgement of callsigns constitutes an "exchange 
of data". 

Lots of bad storms and heavy QRN here in Arkansas so not much Stew 
consumption this year. 

73 Joel W5ZN 



> Jim K9YC wrote, "A valid contact is the exchange of callsigns and one 
> additional piece of information, followed by acknowledgement by both 
> stations. When running QRP at the limits of propagation, that exchange can 
> take a while." 
> 
> 
> Where would one find official documentation to support that posit? 
> 
> 
> I see some verbiage stating that in some sort of ARRL operating manual 
> written by Mark Wilson, Jim....is that your "source of support"? I've 
> ntalked to ARRL staff who contend one doesn't need anything other than the 
> exchange of call signs so....I'm just "axin'"!! 
> 
> 
> 
> 72 de Jim Rodenkirch K9JWV 
> 
> _________________ 
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband 
> 


www.w5zn.org 

_________________ 
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband 


From Rodenkirch_LLC at msn.com  Sun Dec 27 09:33:00 2015
From: Rodenkirch_LLC at msn.com (James Rodenkirch)
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2015 14:33:00 +0000
Subject: Topband: A "valid" QSO????
In-Reply-To: <1084982667.4132453.1451226498175.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net>
References: <SN1PR16MB0623E9BEB52EAC7DDB40C43AF0FA0@SN1PR16MB0623.namprd16.prod.outlook.com>
	<d702fb171fc5d0005f16a72674905218.squirrel@just120.justhost.com>
	<SN1PR16MB062369524C8FDC26BD25B82EF0FA0@SN1PR16MB0623.namprd16.prod.outlook.com>,
	<1084982667.4132453.1451226498175.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <SN1PR16MB06238B037CD9CA64CBFDF25AF0FA0@SN1PR16MB0623.namprd16.prod.outlook.com>

Well, that squares up with what I was told...wonder about the WAS award....


________________________________
From: nn4t at comcast.net <nn4t at comcast.net>
Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2015 7:28 AM
To: James Rodenkirch
Cc: topband at contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: A "valid" QSO????

For DXCC purposes a signal report is not required. In submitting a contact for credit only the call signs of the two stations, DXCC entity, time, date and mode are required. I realized this is only for one award but it is a big one. Best, Steve, NN4T

________________________________
From: "James Rodenkirch" <Rodenkirch_LLC at msn.com>
To: w5zn at w5zn.org
Cc: "Top Band Contesting" <topband at contesting.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2015 8:21:05 AM
Subject: Re: Topband: A "valid" QSO????

I believe the gentlemen I conversed with would qualify as holding a position, Joel. I always understood a valid QSO to include receiving the otherham's call sign and the RST but both gentlemen stated an RST wasn't required...think I'lln go back and ask the question again...

By the bye - I am referring to a every day, garden variety QSO - not a contest-related Q.

________________________________________
From: Joel Harrison <w5zn at w5zn.org>
Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2015 5:19 AM
To: James Rodenkirch
Cc: Top Band Contesting
Subject: Re: Topband: A "valid" QSO????

I would be very interested to know "who" at ARRL HQ told you than and
holds that position!

Is it someone in a position to render an "ARRL position"? I have always
been told, have understood and followed the same position Jim has so I'm
just curious if there was a "change" somewhere along the way when I may
have been taking a nap.

I guess exchange and acknowledgement of callsigns constitutes an "exchange
of data".

Lots of bad storms and heavy QRN here in Arkansas so not much Stew
consumption this year.

73 Joel W5ZN



> Jim K9YC wrote, "A valid contact is the exchange of callsigns and one
> additional piece of information, followed by acknowledgement by both
> stations. When running QRP at the limits of propagation, that exchange can
> take a while."
>
>
> Where would one find official documentation to support that posit?
>
>
> I see some verbiage stating that in some sort of ARRL operating manual
> written by Mark Wilson, Jim....is that your "source of support"? I've
> ntalked to ARRL staff who contend one doesn't need anything other than the
> exchange of call signs so....I'm just "axin'"!!
>
>
>
> 72 de Jim Rodenkirch K9JWV
>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>


www.w5zn.org

_________________
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


From dave at nz3m.com  Sun Dec 27 09:40:57 2015
From: dave at nz3m.com (Dave Clouser)
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2015 09:40:57 -0500
Subject: Topband: A "valid" QSO????
In-Reply-To: <SN1PR16MB06238B037CD9CA64CBFDF25AF0FA0@SN1PR16MB0623.namprd16.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SN1PR16MB0623E9BEB52EAC7DDB40C43AF0FA0@SN1PR16MB0623.namprd16.prod.outlook.com>
	<d702fb171fc5d0005f16a72674905218.squirrel@just120.justhost.com>
	<SN1PR16MB062369524C8FDC26BD25B82EF0FA0@SN1PR16MB0623.namprd16.prod.outlook.com>
	<1084982667.4132453.1451226498175.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net>
	<SN1PR16MB06238B037CD9CA64CBFDF25AF0FA0@SN1PR16MB0623.namprd16.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <567FF879.30602@nz3m.com>

FWIW
LOTW only looks for callsign, date, time and mode.  Nothing else is 
needed for a confirmation.  All other information is collected from your 
station location information in the TQSL software.  This includes state, 
dxcc, county, grid, zone, whatever.

73
Dave NZ3M

On 12/27/2015 9:33 AM, James Rodenkirch wrote:
> Well, that squares up with what I was told...wonder about the WAS award....
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: nn4t at comcast.net <nn4t at comcast.net>
> Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2015 7:28 AM
> To: James Rodenkirch
> Cc: topband at contesting.com
> Subject: Re: Topband: A "valid" QSO????
>
> For DXCC purposes a signal report is not required. In submitting a contact for credit only the call signs of the two stations, DXCC entity, time, date and mode are required. I realized this is only for one award but it is a big one. Best, Steve, NN4T
>
> ________________________________
> From: "James Rodenkirch" <Rodenkirch_LLC at msn.com>
> To: w5zn at w5zn.org
> Cc: "Top Band Contesting" <topband at contesting.com>
> Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2015 8:21:05 AM
> Subject: Re: Topband: A "valid" QSO????
>
> I believe the gentlemen I conversed with would qualify as holding a position, Joel. I always understood a valid QSO to include receiving the otherham's call sign and the RST but both gentlemen stated an RST wasn't required...think I'lln go back and ask the question again...
>
> By the bye - I am referring to a every day, garden variety QSO - not a contest-related Q.
>
> ________________________________________
> From: Joel Harrison <w5zn at w5zn.org>
> Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2015 5:19 AM
> To: James Rodenkirch
> Cc: Top Band Contesting
> Subject: Re: Topband: A "valid" QSO????
>
> I would be very interested to know "who" at ARRL HQ told you than and
> holds that position!
>
> Is it someone in a position to render an "ARRL position"? I have always
> been told, have understood and followed the same position Jim has so I'm
> just curious if there was a "change" somewhere along the way when I may
> have been taking a nap.
>
> I guess exchange and acknowledgement of callsigns constitutes an "exchange
> of data".
>
> Lots of bad storms and heavy QRN here in Arkansas so not much Stew
> consumption this year.
>
> 73 Joel W5ZN
>
>
>
>> Jim K9YC wrote, "A valid contact is the exchange of callsigns and one
>> additional piece of information, followed by acknowledgement by both
>> stations. When running QRP at the limits of propagation, that exchange can
>> take a while."
>>
>>
>> Where would one find official documentation to support that posit?
>>
>>
>> I see some verbiage stating that in some sort of ARRL operating manual
>> written by Mark Wilson, Jim....is that your "source of support"? I've
>> ntalked to ARRL staff who contend one doesn't need anything other than the
>> exchange of call signs so....I'm just "axin'"!!
>>
>>
>>
>> 72 de Jim Rodenkirch K9JWV
>>
>> _________________
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>
>
> www.w5zn.org
>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
>


From tshoppa at gmail.com  Sun Dec 27 09:49:07 2015
From: tshoppa at gmail.com (Tim Shoppa)
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2015 09:49:07 -0500
Subject: Topband: A "valid" QSO????
In-Reply-To: <SN1PR16MB0623E9BEB52EAC7DDB40C43AF0FA0@SN1PR16MB0623.namprd16.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SN1PR16MB0623E9BEB52EAC7DDB40C43AF0FA0@SN1PR16MB0623.namprd16.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAJ_qRvbdb5UyVGbYgrqTurpAv9WUd3tC91XYpDmJxRydLcbjdQ@mail.gmail.com>

Ahem... some notable contests require more than one additional piece of
information. And the acknowledgement of which K9YC speaks can vary greatly
depending on context and ham.

Many contests involve an exchange that depends on power level at least a
little. e.g. DX side in ARRL DX, it can sometimes be implied by category in
sweepstakes, and some QRP contests and events actually require exchange of
power level. Someone starting with QRP events may well believe that power
level is part of a full exchange.

RST is not required for ARRL DXCC. An exchanged RST is required for some
non-ARRL awards, and I think some QRP awards require that it be a real RST.

Tim N3QE

On Sun, Dec 27, 2015 at 7:09 AM, James Rodenkirch <Rodenkirch_LLC at msn.com>
wrote:

> Jim K9YC wrote, "A valid contact is the exchange of callsigns and one
> additional piece of information, followed by acknowledgement by both
> stations. When running QRP at the limits of propagation, that exchange can
> take a while."
>
>
> Where would one find official documentation to support that posit?
>
>
> I see some verbiage stating that in some sort of ARRL operating manual
> written by Mark Wilson, Jim....is that your "source of support"? I've
> ntalked to ARRL staff who contend one doesn't need anything other than the
> exchange of call signs so....I'm just "axin'"!!
>
>
>
> 72 de Jim Rodenkirch K9JWV
>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>

From Rodenkirch_LLC at msn.com  Sun Dec 27 09:53:26 2015
From: Rodenkirch_LLC at msn.com (James Rodenkirch)
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2015 14:53:26 +0000
Subject: Topband: A "valid" QSO????
In-Reply-To: <CAJ_qRvbdb5UyVGbYgrqTurpAv9WUd3tC91XYpDmJxRydLcbjdQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <SN1PR16MB0623E9BEB52EAC7DDB40C43AF0FA0@SN1PR16MB0623.namprd16.prod.outlook.com>,
	<CAJ_qRvbdb5UyVGbYgrqTurpAv9WUd3tC91XYpDmJxRydLcbjdQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SN1PR16MB062322F7BAD5AFE204C5C423F0FA0@SN1PR16MB0623.namprd16.prod.outlook.com>

Again - I submitted a follow-on comment....I'm referring to a non-contest, general, run of the mill QSO...one would could be "counted" for a DXCC or WAS award.


________________________________
From: Tim Shoppa <tshoppa at gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2015 7:49 AM
To: James Rodenkirch
Cc: Top Band Contesting
Subject: Re: Topband: A "valid" QSO????

Ahem... some notable contests require more than one additional piece of information. And the acknowledgement of which K9YC speaks can vary greatly depending on context and ham.

Many contests involve an exchange that depends on power level at least a little. e.g. DX side in ARRL DX, it can sometimes be implied by category in sweepstakes, and some QRP contests and events actually require exchange of power level. Someone starting with QRP events may well believe that power level is part of a full exchange.

RST is not required for ARRL DXCC. An exchanged RST is required for some non-ARRL awards, and I think some QRP awards require that it be a real RST.

Tim N3QE

On Sun, Dec 27, 2015 at 7:09 AM, James Rodenkirch <Rodenkirch_LLC at msn.com<mailto:Rodenkirch_LLC at msn.com>> wrote:
Jim K9YC wrote, "A valid contact is the exchange of callsigns and one additional piece of information, followed by acknowledgement by both stations. When running QRP at the limits of propagation, that exchange can take a while."


Where would one find official documentation to support that posit?


I see some verbiage stating that in some sort of ARRL operating manual written by Mark Wilson, Jim....is that your "source of support"? I've ntalked to ARRL staff who contend one doesn't need anything other than the exchange of call signs so....I'm just "axin'"!!



72 de Jim Rodenkirch K9JWV

_________________
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


From ki0g at yahoo.com  Sun Dec 27 10:03:10 2015
From: ki0g at yahoo.com (Bob Cutter)
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2015 08:03:10 -0700
Subject: Topband: Best DX QRP contact in the SP - N5IA
In-Reply-To: <44795085.3609675.1451221740565.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <44795085.3609675.1451221740565.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<44795085.3609675.1451221740565.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <34D027A3-F702-4593-BE75-3B2013BC9386@yahoo.com>

I managed 10 Q's with a MBDC from KD1JV. 100' of wire inside the condo with the end hanging from the 3rd floor window. 

A great time. 

72, Bob KI0g

> On Dec 27, 2015, at 6:09 AM, Jim F. via Topband <topband at contesting.com> wrote:
> 
> Couldn't believe hearing N5IA before dawn this morning and 
> 

From miltn5ia at gmail.com  Sun Dec 27 10:19:28 2015
From: miltn5ia at gmail.com (Milt)
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2015 08:19:28 -0700
Subject: Topband: Best DX QRP contact in the SP - N5IA
In-Reply-To: <CA+h_a7LqSG8WZ3tWm3JxBJnML16RM44PuAr3dSyUaGhPWWNk0A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <44795085.3609675.1451221740565.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com><44795085.3609675.1451221740565.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
	<CA+h_a7LqSG8WZ3tWm3JxBJnML16RM44PuAr3dSyUaGhPWWNk0A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F2A8CC2D8F0E4090B98BE68001810F30@Milts2009>

Muchas gracias por la llamda, Jorge.  Y tambien el reporte de la calidad y 
fuerza de mi senal.  Fue una toda sorpresa cuando me llamaste.

73, y un prospero ano nuevo para ti y los tuyos, de Milt, N5IA


-----Original Message----- 
From: Jorge Diez - CX6VM
Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2015 6:42 AM
To: Jim F.
Cc: TopBand List ; Bud Valcourt - NY1Z
Subject: Re: Topband: Best DX QRP contact in the SP - N5IA

I worked N5IA 22 minutes after my sunrise. He was very loud here.

NP2X the loudest signal all the night, picking over S9 many times!!

73,
Jorge
CX6VM/CW5W

2015-12-27 10:09 GMT-03:00 Jim F. via Topband <topband at contesting.com>:

> Couldn't believe hearing N5IA before dawn this morning and
> got him in the log.
> He was the furthest DX contact - by far - and to see why....Look him up on
> QRZ.com.  His 160m antennas are ... Amazing !
> He copied my 5 watts from a condo in NH on a hidden antenna.
>  Thank you Milt !!!  You made my day !
> I didn't  make many QSOs but had a Blast working some of myfavorite QRP
> club locals on 160m.
>
> 73, Jim  /  W1FMR
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband




-- 
73,
Jorge
CX6VM/CW5W
_________________
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband 


From cx6vm.jorge at gmail.com  Sun Dec 27 10:22:37 2015
From: cx6vm.jorge at gmail.com (Jorge Diez CX6VM)
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2015 12:22:37 -0300
Subject: Topband: A "valid" QSO????
In-Reply-To: <SN1PR16MB06234FABFBC506C848943D9DF0FA0@SN1PR16MB0623.namprd16.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SN1PR16MB0623E9BEB52EAC7DDB40C43AF0FA0@SN1PR16MB0623.namprd16.prod.outlook.com>
	<CA+h_a7+PBvB+kGpX8e27cQp0B_VzYce4q3T25xrpVob6z=ODzw@mail.gmail.com>
	<SN1PR16MB06234FABFBC506C848943D9DF0FA0@SN1PR16MB0623.namprd16.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <68714DEB-CC3F-474E-B175-728A489B6C37@gmail.com>


Hi Rod

Ups, sorry, didn't notice that reply only to you

73,
Jorge


Enviado desde mi iPhone

> El 27 dic. 2015, a las 11:37, James Rodenkirch <Rodenkirch_LLC at msn.com> escribi?:
> 
> 
> Jorge - I'm unsure about that one...ask everyone else - send your question to topband at contesting.com
> 
> 
> 
> From: Jorge Diez - CX6VM <cx6vm.jorge at gmail.com>
> Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2015 7:33 AM
> To: James Rodenkirch
> Subject: Re: Topband: A "valid" QSO????
>  
> Yesterday, a USA station worked me on the Stew Perry. But didnt send me his grid locator. I asked him several times and never return with the exchange
> 
> Maybe he need CX and just called me, so what I must do? Delete this QSO? Put the default grid locator?
> 
> 73,
> Jorge
> CX6VM/CW5W
> 
> 2015-12-27 9:09 GMT-03:00 James Rodenkirch <Rodenkirch_LLC at msn.com>:
>> Jim K9YC wrote, "A valid contact is the exchange of callsigns and one additional piece of information, followed by acknowledgement by both stations. When running QRP at the limits of propagation, that exchange can take a while."
>> 
>> 
>> Where would one find official documentation to support that posit?
>> 
>> 
>> I see some verbiage stating that in some sort of ARRL operating manual written by Mark Wilson, Jim....is that your "source of support"? I've ntalked to ARRL staff who contend one doesn't need anything other than the exchange of call signs so....I'm just "axin'"!!
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 72 de Jim Rodenkirch K9JWV
>> 
>> _________________
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 73,
> Jorge
> CX6VM/CW5W

From j_fitton at yahoo.com  Sun Dec 27 10:25:23 2015
From: j_fitton at yahoo.com (Jim F.)
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2015 15:25:23 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Topband: Best DX QRP contact in the SP - N5IA
In-Reply-To: <34D027A3-F702-4593-BE75-3B2013BC9386@yahoo.com>
References: <34D027A3-F702-4593-BE75-3B2013BC9386@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1409327607.3538144.1451229923220.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

Good for you Bob !!!
?That is really something !
I used the aluminum rain gutters as part of my counterpoisesystem which brought the SWR? from 3:1 to 1:7.?You never know unless you try !
50 golden QRP condo SP contacts -? :-)
73,
Jim / W1FMR

 

      From: Bob Cutter <ki0g at yahoo.com>
 To: Jim F. <j_fitton at yahoo.com>; topband <topband at contesting.com> 
 Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2015 10:03 AM
 Subject: Re: Topband: Best DX QRP contact in the SP - N5IA
   
I managed 10 Q's with a MBDC from KD1JV. 100' of wire inside the condo with the end hanging from the 3rd floor window. 

A great time. 

72, Bob KI0g

> On Dec 27, 2015, at 6:09 AM, Jim F. via Topband <topband at contesting.com> wrote:
> 
> Couldn't believe hearing N5IA before dawn this morning and 
> 

  

From tshoppa at gmail.com  Sun Dec 27 10:37:03 2015
From: tshoppa at gmail.com (Tim Shoppa)
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2015 10:37:03 -0500
Subject: Topband: A "valid" QSO????
In-Reply-To: <68714DEB-CC3F-474E-B175-728A489B6C37@gmail.com>
References: <SN1PR16MB0623E9BEB52EAC7DDB40C43AF0FA0@SN1PR16MB0623.namprd16.prod.outlook.com>
	<CA+h_a7+PBvB+kGpX8e27cQp0B_VzYce4q3T25xrpVob6z=ODzw@mail.gmail.com>
	<SN1PR16MB06234FABFBC506C848943D9DF0FA0@SN1PR16MB0623.namprd16.prod.outlook.com>
	<68714DEB-CC3F-474E-B175-728A489B6C37@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJ_qRvawO5jWBPXp1-CRvWJVL62EDNO0A+OmpEbpU44z3-gj=Q@mail.gmail.com>

Jorge -
  Some contests have explicit instructions about how to deal with stations
that didn't send a valid exchange. For example, the CQ WW FAQ says we are
supposed to log the zone they should've sent; some other contests say to
put in a zero for serial number if they don't send a serial number.

  For TBDC there is no penalty for busted exchanges so may as well leave it
in, maybe with a note to the logchecker. I think the log robot deals with
X-QSO: records, and that's what I'm going to do with the guy who didn't
send me an exchange last night.

  Note that sometimes stations think they are entering contests seriously
but due to station automation actually don't know their exchange macro is
wrong wrong wrong. In the most recent running of CQWWCW a big time
contester never sent a valid exchange, just morse gobbledygook, and because
he was uber-SO2R maybe he never even knew what he was sending. Probably got
asked for a lot of fills!!!

Tim N3QE

On Sun, Dec 27, 2015 at 10:22 AM, Jorge Diez CX6VM <cx6vm.jorge at gmail.com>
wrote:

>
> Hi Rod
>
> Ups, sorry, didn't notice that reply only to you
>
> 73,
> Jorge
>
>
> Enviado desde mi iPhone
>
> > El 27 dic. 2015, a las 11:37, James Rodenkirch <Rodenkirch_LLC at msn.com>
> escribi?:
> >
> >
> > Jorge - I'm unsure about that one...ask everyone else - send your
> question to topband at contesting.com
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Jorge Diez - CX6VM <cx6vm.jorge at gmail.com>
> > Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2015 7:33 AM
> > To: James Rodenkirch
> > Subject: Re: Topband: A "valid" QSO????
> >
> > Yesterday, a USA station worked me on the Stew Perry. But didnt send me
> his grid locator. I asked him several times and never return with the
> exchange
> >
> > Maybe he need CX and just called me, so what I must do? Delete this QSO?
> Put the default grid locator?
> >
> > 73,
> > Jorge
> > CX6VM/CW5W
> >
> > 2015-12-27 9:09 GMT-03:00 James Rodenkirch <Rodenkirch_LLC at msn.com>:
> >> Jim K9YC wrote, "A valid contact is the exchange of callsigns and one
> additional piece of information, followed by acknowledgement by both
> stations. When running QRP at the limits of propagation, that exchange can
> take a while."
> >>
> >>
> >> Where would one find official documentation to support that posit?
> >>
> >>
> >> I see some verbiage stating that in some sort of ARRL operating manual
> written by Mark Wilson, Jim....is that your "source of support"? I've
> ntalked to ARRL staff who contend one doesn't need anything other than the
> exchange of call signs so....I'm just "axin'"!!
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> 72 de Jim Rodenkirch K9JWV
> >>
> >> _________________
> >> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > 73,
> > Jorge
> > CX6VM/CW5W
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>

From cx6vm.jorge at gmail.com  Sun Dec 27 11:11:34 2015
From: cx6vm.jorge at gmail.com (Jorge Diez CX6VM)
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2015 13:11:34 -0300
Subject: Topband: A "valid" QSO????
In-Reply-To: <CAJ_qRvawO5jWBPXp1-CRvWJVL62EDNO0A+OmpEbpU44z3-gj=Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <SN1PR16MB0623E9BEB52EAC7DDB40C43AF0FA0@SN1PR16MB0623.namprd16.prod.outlook.com>
	<CA+h_a7+PBvB+kGpX8e27cQp0B_VzYce4q3T25xrpVob6z=ODzw@mail.gmail.com>
	<SN1PR16MB06234FABFBC506C848943D9DF0FA0@SN1PR16MB0623.namprd16.prod.outlook.com>
	<68714DEB-CC3F-474E-B175-728A489B6C37@gmail.com>
	<CAJ_qRvawO5jWBPXp1-CRvWJVL62EDNO0A+OmpEbpU44z3-gj=Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E7BAE03E-583C-40E3-93DA-A39C6AF5F363@gmail.com>

Hello Tim

Thanks for the clarification, this QSO will not change nothing, just few qsos from Deep South

happy to participate and work some friends, this is a date that not always possible for me to be in the station, but this time was possible

73,
Jorge 

Enviado desde mi iPhone

> El 27 dic. 2015, a las 12:37, Tim Shoppa <tshoppa at gmail.com> escribi?:
> 
> Jorge -
>   Some contests have explicit instructions about how to deal with stations that didn't send a valid exchange. For example, the CQ WW FAQ says we are supposed to log the zone they should've sent; some other contests say to put in a zero for serial number if they don't send a serial number.
> 
>   For TBDC there is no penalty for busted exchanges so may as well leave it in, maybe with a note to the logchecker. I think the log robot deals with X-QSO: records, and that's what I'm going to do with the guy who didn't send me an exchange last night.
> 
>   Note that sometimes stations think they are entering contests seriously but due to station automation actually don't know their exchange macro is wrong wrong wrong. In the most recent running of CQWWCW a big time contester never sent a valid exchange, just morse gobbledygook, and because he was uber-SO2R maybe he never even knew what he was sending. Probably got asked for a lot of fills!!!
> 
> Tim N3QE
> 
>> On Sun, Dec 27, 2015 at 10:22 AM, Jorge Diez CX6VM <cx6vm.jorge at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Rod
>> 
>> Ups, sorry, didn't notice that reply only to you
>> 
>> 73,
>> Jorge
>> 
>> 
>> Enviado desde mi iPhone
>> 
>> > El 27 dic. 2015, a las 11:37, James Rodenkirch <Rodenkirch_LLC at msn.com> escribi?:
>> >
>> >
>> > Jorge - I'm unsure about that one...ask everyone else - send your question to topband at contesting.com
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > From: Jorge Diez - CX6VM <cx6vm.jorge at gmail.com>
>> > Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2015 7:33 AM
>> > To: James Rodenkirch
>> > Subject: Re: Topband: A "valid" QSO????
>> >
>> > Yesterday, a USA station worked me on the Stew Perry. But didnt send me his grid locator. I asked him several times and never return with the exchange
>> >
>> > Maybe he need CX and just called me, so what I must do? Delete this QSO? Put the default grid locator?
>> >
>> > 73,
>> > Jorge
>> > CX6VM/CW5W
>> >
>> > 2015-12-27 9:09 GMT-03:00 James Rodenkirch <Rodenkirch_LLC at msn.com>:
>> >> Jim K9YC wrote, "A valid contact is the exchange of callsigns and one additional piece of information, followed by acknowledgement by both stations. When running QRP at the limits of propagation, that exchange can take a while."
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Where would one find official documentation to support that posit?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> I see some verbiage stating that in some sort of ARRL operating manual written by Mark Wilson, Jim....is that your "source of support"? I've ntalked to ARRL staff who contend one doesn't need anything other than the exchange of call signs so....I'm just "axin'"!!
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> 72 de Jim Rodenkirch K9JWV
>> >>
>> >> _________________
>> >> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > 73,
>> > Jorge
>> > CX6VM/CW5W
>> _________________
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> 

From sawyered at earthlink.net  Sun Dec 27 11:16:55 2015
From: sawyered at earthlink.net (Ed Sawyer)
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2015 11:16:55 -0500
Subject: Topband: A "valid" QSO????
Message-ID: <000601d140c2$0153b070$03fb1150$@earthlink.net>

When did this become the QRP reflector?

 

There has to be some better place for this expanding and off topic dialog
than here.

 

73

 

Ed N1UR


From k2owr at comcast.net  Sun Dec 27 11:21:38 2015
From: k2owr at comcast.net (K4OWR)
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2015 11:21:38 -0500
Subject: Topband: Stew Perry
Message-ID: <56801012.3060307@comcast.net>

Stew Perry Topband Challenge

Call: K4OWR
Operator(s): K4OWR
Station: K4OWR

Class: Single Op HP
QTH: TN
Operating Time (hrs): 7

Summary:
Total:  QSOs =216  Total Score = 477  Grids= 96

Club: Tennessee Contest Group

Comments:
First CW contest operated in almost 25 years! It's NOT like riding a 
bike :-)
Even 7 hours wore me out.
Stew Perry a very "odd" contest with relatively low activity. Reminded 
me of a vhf contest in the old days where you work the band dry in an 
hour, take off for an hour, repeat.
Was able to get Runs going, but I was easily overwhelmed with lots of 
calls, which button to press, and me being new to all this
For me, a great experience on CW. Very different from phone with it's 
QRM, terrible ops, regular rag chewers annoyed at you. Got to try out 
all my new little interface gadgets. I'm ready for the big 160 test in Feb!

From grants2 at pacbell.net  Sun Dec 27 11:47:07 2015
From: grants2 at pacbell.net (Grant Saviers)
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2015 08:47:07 -0800
Subject: Topband: [Bulk] Re:  re topband QRP
In-Reply-To: <567F5BDC.3030407@bellsouth.net>
References: <4778AA7F0F8449A1A50CB1A50FC3E8E7@MAIN>
	<567F5BDC.3030407@bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <5680160B.90605@pacbell.net>


On 12/26/2015 19:32 PM, John Frazier wrote:

> ...snip..
> That aside, every good pile-up, DX and contest op I know dislikes the 
> use of any self assigned indicator, including /QRP. It s l o w s 
> things down and can easily create confusion, busted call signs and 
> missed Qs.
>
> 73 John W4II
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>

YES.

As a "newbie" SSB DX op (~30k Q's),

Please no QRP, no name, no state, no "50 watts to a dipole", no "thanks 
for 3rd band" (I see that in N1MM before you say it), no <something 
else>.   Just <your call> standard phonetics and then "59 Thanks" to 
confirm.

At the "far end" it's immediately obvious who the pro DXrs are, and 
unfortunately about 3/4+ of those in the log aren't.  Telling me the 
state and <stuff> is an epidemic.  Hopefully, topbanders will take on 
some teaching at their clubs about how to work DX.  Contact me off list 
for a presentation I have made at my local club. Between dupes and 
unnecessary exchange confusion, I think DXpeditions lose about 15% of 
potential Q's.  That is a big deal when their cost per Q is $1 to $5.

Grant KZ1W
ex TX5D, TX7G, E51MKW

From n1rj at roadrunner.com  Sun Dec 27 11:48:07 2015
From: n1rj at roadrunner.com (Roger D Johnson)
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2015 11:48:07 -0500
Subject: Topband: A "valid" QSO????
In-Reply-To: <1084982667.4132453.1451226498175.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net>
References: <SN1PR16MB0623E9BEB52EAC7DDB40C43AF0FA0@SN1PR16MB0623.namprd16.prod.outlook.com>
	<d702fb171fc5d0005f16a72674905218.squirrel@just120.justhost.com>
	<SN1PR16MB062369524C8FDC26BD25B82EF0FA0@SN1PR16MB0623.namprd16.prod.outlook.com>
	<1084982667.4132453.1451226498175.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <56801647.8030907@roadrunner.com>

In these days of deregulation, a QSO can be whatever you want it to be. 
Operating another station using your
callsign, having another ham make the contact for you or even on a chat room 
where little or nothing is actually
exchanged on the air.

73, Roger



From ve3fh at yahoo.ca  Sun Dec 27 12:18:55 2015
From: ve3fh at yahoo.ca (VE3FH)
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2015 09:18:55 -0800
Subject: Topband: A "valid" QSO????
In-Reply-To: <56801647.8030907@roadrunner.com>
Message-ID: <1451236735.74194.YahooMailAndroidMobile@web125706.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

As the song goes, it's sad but true...

HNY
Julio VE3FH

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android


From mark.k3msb at gmail.com  Sun Dec 27 13:29:12 2015
From: mark.k3msb at gmail.com (Mark K3MSB)
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2015 13:29:12 -0500
Subject: Topband: Best DX QRP contact in the SP - N5IA
In-Reply-To: <44795085.3609675.1451221740565.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <44795085.3609675.1451221740565.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<44795085.3609675.1451221740565.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CABdVoaBSaQjR5HyQrvpxMr80HyiXGYYbRg0R3004GVrrouHuvQ@mail.gmail.com>

>>He was the furthest DX contact

Same here!

73 Mark K3MSB

On Sun, Dec 27, 2015 at 8:09 AM, Jim F. via Topband <topband at contesting.com>
wrote:

> Couldn't believe hearing N5IA before dawn this morning and
> got him in the log.
> He was the furthest DX contact - by far - and to see why....Look him up on
> QRZ.com.  His 160m antennas are ... Amazing !
> He copied my 5 watts from a condo in NH on a hidden antenna.
>  Thank you Milt !!!  You made my day !
> I didn't  make many QSOs but had a Blast working some of myfavorite QRP
> club locals on 160m.
>
> 73, Jim  /  W1FMR
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

From art at nk8x.net  Sun Dec 27 14:24:49 2015
From: art at nk8x.net (Art Snapper)
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2015 14:24:49 -0500
Subject: Topband: SP conditions
Message-ID: <CAH6JzynpKahxo1EZSxYURdo_xJvZKiZg6soDDc5Y6W23SHt1HQ@mail.gmail.com>

I was a little disappointed with conditions here in Michigan last night.
It seemed more like the Summer Stew with the lightning static from the
storms in Texas and the Upper Mississippi Valley.

I'll refrain from any comments on manmade climate change.

73
Art NK8X

?

From jim at audiosystemsgroup.com  Sun Dec 27 14:37:13 2015
From: jim at audiosystemsgroup.com (Jim Brown)
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2015 11:37:13 -0800
Subject: Topband: A "valid" QSO????
In-Reply-To: <SN1PR16MB062369524C8FDC26BD25B82EF0FA0@SN1PR16MB0623.namprd16.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SN1PR16MB0623E9BEB52EAC7DDB40C43AF0FA0@SN1PR16MB0623.namprd16.prod.outlook.com>
	<d702fb171fc5d0005f16a72674905218.squirrel@just120.justhost.com>
	<SN1PR16MB062369524C8FDC26BD25B82EF0FA0@SN1PR16MB0623.namprd16.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <56803DE9.9090404@audiosystemsgroup.com>

On Sun,12/27/2015 6:21 AM, James Rodenkirch wrote:
> I believe the gentlemen I conversed with would qualify as holding a position, Joel.

Joel is a Past President of ARRL and a very active operator. I suspect 
that he knows what he's talking about. :)

The definition I've cited is published and accepted by those hams 
chasing very difficult QSOs under marginal conditions like meteor 
scatter, moon bounce, and other weak signal work. It is published in 
documentation for K1JT's WSJT software.

Last I heard, the gold standard for DXCC credit is a QSL match in LOTW 
or a paper card, from a DX station believed by ARRL to be operating 
legally in that country at the time of the QSO.

In all cases, the stations on each end of the QSO make their own 
judgement as to whether the QSO was valid when they enter it in their log.

73, Jim K9YC

From jim at audiosystemsgroup.com  Sun Dec 27 14:41:17 2015
From: jim at audiosystemsgroup.com (Jim Brown)
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2015 11:41:17 -0800
Subject: Topband: Stew Perry
In-Reply-To: <56801012.3060307@comcast.net>
References: <56801012.3060307@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <56803EDD.3080004@audiosystemsgroup.com>

On Sun,12/27/2015 8:21 AM, K4OWR wrote:
> For me, a great experience on CW. Very different from phone with it's 
> QRM, terrible ops, regular rag chewers annoyed at you. Got to try out 
> all my new little interface gadgets. I'm ready for the big 160 test in 
> Feb! 

Yep. That's a BIG set of reasons why many of us strongly prefer CW, both 
for contesting and general operation.

73, Jim K9YC

From mikewate at gmail.com  Sun Dec 27 15:01:06 2015
From: mikewate at gmail.com (Mike Waters)
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2015 14:01:06 -0600
Subject: Topband: Stew Perry
In-Reply-To: <56801012.3060307@comcast.net>
References: <56801012.3060307@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <CA+FxYXgwtbeocOsZbTeq8F=EY5HsBaSvdGL8_uzMcQ2WkSajmw@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Dec 27, 2015 at 10:21 AM, K4OWR <k2owr at comcast.net> wrote:

> ... Stew Perry a very "odd" contest with relatively low activity. ...
>

That's not usually the case! The crazy weather likely kept a lot of hams
away this time.

Here in SW MO I couldn't even listen, as we had almost constant
thunderstorms; our antennas were all unplugged and the station powered off.

Try it next year. It's a great contest! My favorite one of the year.

Better yet, there's the CQ 160 CW contest at the end of January:
www.hornucopia.com/contestcal/contestdetails.php?ref=232
www.cq160.com/rules.htm

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com

From topband at planet3.freeuk.co.uk  Sun Dec 27 16:58:46 2015
From: topband at planet3.freeuk.co.uk (Brian D G3VGZ)
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2015 21:58:46 +0000
Subject: Topband: ARRL 160CW Contest QRP Portable Op
In-Reply-To: <677929785.138320971.1451061591172.JavaMail.root@rcn.com>
References: <677929785.138320971.1451061591172.JavaMail.root@rcn.com>
Message-ID: <mpro.o01edy0053p4h03b0@planet3.freeuk.co.uk>

I was running low power to an inefficient antenna due to planning
restrictions. I felt a lot of stations took their time to complete QSOs with
me, to only get a multiplier of 1.5 for the qso, when IMHO they deserves the
full 3 for a QRP station.

Perhaps have categories (for 160) based on maximum antenna height multiplied
by transmitter power, being easier to work out than ERP, and effectively
giving a bonus for stations who go for more efficient small antenna.

An estimate of my antenna efficiency is about 5% but have WAC on 160 with
200w max TX power (limited by auto ATU at base of antenna). I would reckon
that is equivalent to QRP WAC wit ha 1/4 wave vertical over a salt water
ground plane.  



kolson at rcn.com wrote:

> What would be much more fair is to go by ERP. 5 watts from one of tho se
> sophisticated antenna farms may very well be stronger than 100w or even
> 600w from, let's say, a Butte rnut with a vestigial radial field. T he
> Butternut guy gets no consideration (in fact, generally he gets derision)
> but the (often louder) 5 watt guy is hailed as  a great big QRP hero (hi
> hi) . Somehow, r unning a compromise antenna marks us as not caring but
> running QRP is "noble".
> 
> To me, the weird thing is that, at least for most of us running compromise
> antennas, our choice is made out of the necessities of real life, that is,
> we do what we can do from a small lot or an antenna restricted development
> or where zoning laws are especially hostile to amateur antennas. In some
> cases , it's may even be a concession to a neighbor that be insan e (don't
> ask me how I know). The decision to use 5 watts, on the other hand,  is
> basically whim. M ost of our radios output 100w out of the box, so one
> operates at 5 watts because he wants to, not because he has to.  A nd
> there are plenty of reasonably priced used  600w+ amps available if one
> wants even more power that basically only  take desk space, no zoning
> required.


-- 
Brian D 
G3VGZ

From robb at robbwebbphotography.co.uk  Sun Dec 27 17:00:02 2015
From: robb at robbwebbphotography.co.uk (Robb Webb Proprietor of Robb Webb Photography)
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2015 22:00:02 +0000
Subject: Topband: Stew Op Times
In-Reply-To: <567DF76B.7060402@audiosystemsgroup.com>
References: <A6062147-196C-4DC7-B9F5-E5587B1B8F5B@gmail.com>
	<567DF76B.7060402@audiosystemsgroup.com>
Message-ID: <ABA87D39-7E2F-4229-88B0-1FC1BCA2CFB0@robbwebbphotography.co.uk>

Wow guys
I hope you both make a full recovery. 

Robb 

Robb Webb Photography
Bringing Photography to life
Mobile: 07891 575892


>> On 26 Dec 2015, at 02:11, Jim Brown <jim at audiosystemsgroup.com> wrote:
>> 
>> On Fri,12/25/2015 3:12 PM, dick.bingham wrote:
>> I am not allowed to use my arms for the next several months due to a chest-cracking and some bypass surgery on the heart.
> 
> Me too -- 5 weeks ago. Thanks to friends who did some antenna maintenance for me, I'll be on for the Stew.
> 
> 73, Jim K9YC
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

From n6bk at yahoo.com  Mon Dec 28 04:13:35 2015
From: n6bk at yahoo.com (Bob Kupps)
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2015 09:13:35 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Topband: HiZ 8 circle array 1st impression
References: <1987992991.4086791.1451294015975.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1987992991.4086791.1451294015975.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

Hi we finally got our HiZ 80 and 160m arrays up and running and the performance appears to be as advertised. We used 6m guyed steel tubes mounted on PVC insulators for the 160m elements and 3m wires inside PVC for the concentric 80m array. Each element has a 1m copper clad ground rod in good soil. The base preamps are inside plastic pop bottles and the feed lines are inside PVC tubing for rodent protection. The rest of the hardware sits in a plastic storage bin at the center on top of the big rolls of delay cable. We used the wireless remotes for control and voltage injectors for power that required 22 VDC at the shack through 100m of RG6 feed line. We ended up not using the included feed line preamps due to our outrageous noise levels but did use a band or low pass filter at the antenna output and the supplied impedance transformers at the shack.
The closest element is about a half wave from the transmit vertical that we did not detune after hearing no change in noise levels with it open or grounded. HS0ZEE is a few dozen wavelengths away but in between two main directions; S9 from the front 2 and S4 off the back 2 directions was the only objective test I could really make. Most DX signals in the Stew could not be heard past one direction either side of peak.

I haven't used the 80m array much yet but its performance appears to be roughly on a par with our 3 el yagi. I am hoping to see an improvement since the yagi is up 3/4 wave and so has a very strong high angle second lobe absent on the vertical array, and a wider beam width. We will see...it's sure easy to check the path compared against a 1/2 RPM beam anyway and it will be interesting to try them in diversity.
Listening on either of these arrays on a second K3 while transmitting on the 160 vertical was impossible due to overload, even cross band although maybe because we only have a high pass filter for the 80m array. We also have issues with computer and monitor noise getting into the rx path on this system.?
HS0ZKX will be operating the station 4 weeks from now in the CQ 160 so we hope to see you in the log.?
73 and good DX in 2016?Bob HS0ZIA

From n8vw at linuxcolumbus.com  Mon Dec 28 10:44:18 2015
From: n8vw at linuxcolumbus.com (Pat N8VW)
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2015 10:44:18 -0500
Subject: Topband: SP conditions
In-Reply-To: <CAH6JzynpKahxo1EZSxYURdo_xJvZKiZg6soDDc5Y6W23SHt1HQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAH6JzynpKahxo1EZSxYURdo_xJvZKiZg6soDDc5Y6W23SHt1HQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <90eb104b47ad5d0ea57d9addec9467fc@linuxcolumbus.com>

On 2015-12-27 14:24, Art Snapper wrote:
> I was a little disappointed with conditions here in Michigan last 
> night.
> It seemed more like the Summer Stew with the lightning static from the
> storms in Texas and the Upper Mississippi Valley.
> 

Very noisy here also. Early it sounded like someone was crunching paper 
in my ears and with no receive antennas it was painful.  Later when the 
K dropped it sounded a bit better, but still local noise was evident. 
Led xmas lights maybe?

Had a computer problem, time would randomly reset so log is messed up on 
the times.  Used the station call (k8mk) instead of mine this year just 
for fun.  At 5w only dx worked was NP2X, but KV4FZ gave it a good try.  
FM5BH was in mud and didn't hear any EU.

..n8vw

From tshoppa at gmail.com  Mon Dec 28 11:22:55 2015
From: tshoppa at gmail.com (Tim Shoppa)
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2015 11:22:55 -0500
Subject: Topband: SP conditions
In-Reply-To: <CAH6JzynpKahxo1EZSxYURdo_xJvZKiZg6soDDc5Y6W23SHt1HQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAH6JzynpKahxo1EZSxYURdo_xJvZKiZg6soDDc5Y6W23SHt1HQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJ_qRvba2XeMw=pVsDm9Ed3m5MBPw31qWHx+z+xR3=zpbr3Nzw@mail.gmail.com>

I felt results to EU were average to above average. I was very surprised
and pleased when two EU's were among the first replies to my CQ's.

I was very surprised in other direction, in initial hours how few
midwesterners were calling in. Usually I rack up several W9's with my first
CQ's although it is well before their sundown. Pretty soon I figured out it
must be thunderstorm activity in midwest.

In initial hours I was not hearing much thunderstorm noise myself, but for
a while around 0300-0400Z there were a couple times I ripped my headphones
off and threw them on the ground myself, the lightning noise was so bad,
even though I was far away from the bad weather. Other than that hour I did
not feel hindered by thunderstorm noise myself, but I'm sure a lot of folks
were scared to even plug in their antenna.

I worked a couple loud and easy W6's and W7's but not many at all. I think
this may have been a very rare year where I worked a lot more EU than W6's
and W7's.

I just looked at my reversebeacon reports and I feel I did very well to EU,
much better than expected given my few reversebeacon spots in EU.

Last night (night after Stew), SM5EDX had huge signal on 160M and I worked
him easy with 100W.

Tim N3QE

On Sun, Dec 27, 2015 at 2:24 PM, Art Snapper <art at nk8x.net> wrote:

> I was a little disappointed with conditions here in Michigan last night.
> It seemed more like the Summer Stew with the lightning static from the
> storms in Texas and the Upper Mississippi Valley.
>
> I'll refrain from any comments on manmade climate change.
>
> 73
> Art NK8X
>
> ?
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

From art at nk8x.net  Mon Dec 28 11:47:42 2015
From: art at nk8x.net (Art Snapper)
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2015 11:47:42 -0500
Subject: Topband: directional receive and contests
Message-ID: <CAH6Jzyk+dv3jZE97sABgn3f=a4TzqWtFeHrKDnnQ3U7ZG-S+Ow@mail.gmail.com>

Do any of you wish to share your methodology on using directional receive
antennas during a run?

The inverted-L was way too noisy with the lightning static, to hear weak
and distant stations.

On the other hand, I am sure I missed some stations, by being on the
wrong-direction receiving antenna at the time they called.

de Art NK8X

?

From barry.n1eu at gmail.com  Mon Dec 28 11:53:44 2015
From: barry.n1eu at gmail.com (Barry N1EU)
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2015 11:53:44 -0500
Subject: Topband: RBN spotters on TopBand
Message-ID: <CAFmfzDtNQieSRBgQ2EaLy_s-wtnZQO6i=EYXLU2gVmNGH6s_yw@mail.gmail.com>

Can anyone recommend some RBN nodes with good/decent 160M antennas in
western Europe and west coast USA?  I'd like to run some
comparison/analysis on signals from this weekend.

Thanks & 73/HNY,
Barry N1EU

From n4ua.va at gmail.com  Mon Dec 28 12:06:34 2015
From: n4ua.va at gmail.com (George Dubovsky)
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2015 12:06:34 -0500
Subject: Topband: directional receive and contests
In-Reply-To: <CAH6Jzyk+dv3jZE97sABgn3f=a4TzqWtFeHrKDnnQ3U7ZG-S+Ow@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAH6Jzyk+dv3jZE97sABgn3f=a4TzqWtFeHrKDnnQ3U7ZG-S+Ow@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAALHBrY3XXZpUuQ5+7MEZ3W8tzpMs1fT4SPDVtuDJzda+3ExJg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Art,

I have 2 classes of rx antennas for 160/80, an active rx 4-square with
short 108" verticals (a copy of the first-generation DXE array) and 3
pretty long bi-directional beverages. In general, the 4-sq is not as "razor
sharp" as the beverages, so I generally put the 4-sq on the main rx of the
K3 and put one of the beverages on the sub-rx in diversity mode. A common
scenario is to have the EU beverage in my right ear and the 4-sq selected
as NW or SW in the left ear. The less-than-stellar F/B and F/S of the 4-sq
usually allows me to work most of the stronger callers, even those in the
"disadvantaged" directions, without switching, plus it gives me a hint if
someone is calling and I should switch one of the other beverages in to dig
out a weak one. HTH.

73,

geo - n4ua

On Mon, Dec 28, 2015 at 11:47 AM, Art Snapper <art at nk8x.net> wrote:

> Do any of you wish to share your methodology on using directional receive
> antennas during a run?
>
> The inverted-L was way too noisy with the lightning static, to hear weak
> and distant stations.
>
> On the other hand, I am sure I missed some stations, by being on the
> wrong-direction receiving antenna at the time they called.
>
> de Art NK8X
>
> ?
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

From tshoppa at gmail.com  Mon Dec 28 12:17:52 2015
From: tshoppa at gmail.com (Tim Shoppa)
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2015 12:17:52 -0500
Subject: Topband: directional receive and contests
In-Reply-To: <CAH6Jzyk+dv3jZE97sABgn3f=a4TzqWtFeHrKDnnQ3U7ZG-S+Ow@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAH6Jzyk+dv3jZE97sABgn3f=a4TzqWtFeHrKDnnQ3U7ZG-S+Ow@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJ_qRvbcJF8Ue8EV6VojDvk8EQg62Fyg9MYDmyxrnmfiwXxxnA@mail.gmail.com>

At home I use a foot switches to cycle between three receive antennas after
each 160M CQ: NE and SW on a K9AY loop, and WNW on a west-facing pennant.
Each antenna is fairly broad in the forward direction although they have
deep deep nulls in the backwards direction. Oftentimes 8's will come in
best on the NE direction of the K9AY, but W0's and especially W6's/W7's
come in best on the west-facing pennant.

Cycling through on the foot switches is really very nice. I could not
imagine doing it any other way in a contest that has domestic callers, it
lets me type and use super check partial very effectively. For a more
DX-oriented contest pushbutton (finger) selection works OK but I don't
think that works well for a domestic contest.

Very occasionally I will also switch to listening to the transmit antenna
(do not have a footswitch for that). Usually the carribean comes in fine on
my SW receive antenna, but there have been a few occasions for Africa,
south atlantic, etc.,, when I could only copy on the transmit antenna.

Tim N3QE

On Mon, Dec 28, 2015 at 11:47 AM, Art Snapper <art at nk8x.net> wrote:

> Do any of you wish to share your methodology on using directional receive
> antennas during a run?
>
> The inverted-L was way too noisy with the lightning static, to hear weak
> and distant stations.
>
> On the other hand, I am sure I missed some stations, by being on the
> wrong-direction receiving antenna at the time they called.
>
> de Art NK8X
>
> ?
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

From no3m at no3m.net  Mon Dec 28 12:18:38 2015
From: no3m at no3m.net (Eric NO3M)
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2015 12:18:38 -0500
Subject: Topband: directional receive and contests
In-Reply-To: <CAH6Jzyk+dv3jZE97sABgn3f=a4TzqWtFeHrKDnnQ3U7ZG-S+Ow@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAH6Jzyk+dv3jZE97sABgn3f=a4TzqWtFeHrKDnnQ3U7ZG-S+Ow@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56816EEE.3020408@no3m.net>

What I have found to work well is taking advantage of a radio with dual 
receivers, not necessarily "locked", ie. diversity as in the K3, but at 
least on the same frequency.  The main RX is fixed on the "hot" 
direction at the moment, whether that be "NE" during EU peak hours or 
"W" after EU sunrise.  The sub-RX is connected to either my beverage 
"group" or the circular array (8-el BSEF).  In either case, the 
switching controller I use (homebrew) scans through directions 
(selectable, usually skip "N" and the direction already on the main RX), 
with about a 1/2 - 3/4 sec delay between switching, pausing during 
transmit.  I have seen comments in the past on here that scanning was 
never found to be effective, but I gather much of this probably had to 
do with the lack of flexibility in the switching / controlling system 
used (ie. scan delays not adjustable, antennas added/removed from scan 
sequence on the fly, etc).

Having a diversity capable rig is helpful if the station is weak, a 
single button press on my switching controller ("Track" button) will 
switch the opposite receiver selection to an available RX antenna in the 
same direction as the one being requested to be tracked, work him, then 
click the "Track" button again on my controller and the original 
opposite receive antenna selection is restored.

73 Eric NO3M


On 12/28/2015 11:47 AM, Art Snapper wrote:
> Do any of you wish to share your methodology on using directional receive
> antennas during a run?
>
> The inverted-L was way too noisy with the lightning static, to hear weak
> and distant stations.
>
> On the other hand, I am sure I missed some stations, by being on the
> wrong-direction receiving antenna at the time they called.
>
> de Art NK8X
>
> ?
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


From robb at robbwebbphotography.co.uk  Mon Dec 28 12:26:23 2015
From: robb at robbwebbphotography.co.uk (Robb Webb Proprietor of Robb Webb Photography)
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2015 17:26:23 +0000
Subject: Topband: Stew Perry Frustration.
Message-ID: <BD01BE0A-CD77-480D-AF04-860CA8CC3623@robbwebbphotography.co.uk>

Hello fellow Stew's
I had been looking forward to this years Stew for a few months and all my trialling new antennas was in vain. Mother Nature in the form of force 8 gales straight off the sea made my inv L a no hoper. I tried for the first hour but the antenna was too low, due to extreme bending !! And the noise level was way too high. The car was shaking so much in the wind that I felt a little quesy too. 
After an hour setting up and an hour struggling to operate I reverted to the dipole configuration, not wanting to give up on the overlooking the sea location. This was no better as the centre support was of course still at a high risk of snapping. 
So having given up on the sea location I packed everything up and headed in land. Finally, less wind and the dipole was up and the noise level was lower. 
A new problem had appeared on the laptop earlier which again caused me problems. The input to the laptop was refusing to work and only the onboard mic worked. So instead of my usual out of the data socket straight to the mic input on the laptop, I was forced to hang a small speaker in front of the onboard mic and turn up the volume. 
In the end I managed 18 contacts in 2 hours !! Only heard EU stations despite hearing lots of US last year. 
As usual with my portable in the car set up, I still have lots of work to do !! One day I will get it all right!! 
Until then Hey Ho, keep on trying 

Thanks to those that heard my 5W 

Robb 
G0URR/P

Robb Webb Photography
Bringing Photography to life
Mobile: 07891 575892


From tree at kkn.net  Mon Dec 28 12:30:17 2015
From: tree at kkn.net (Tree)
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2015 09:30:17 -0800
Subject: Topband: directional receive and contests
In-Reply-To: <56816EEE.3020408@no3m.net>
References: <CAH6Jzyk+dv3jZE97sABgn3f=a4TzqWtFeHrKDnnQ3U7ZG-S+Ow@mail.gmail.com>
	<56816EEE.3020408@no3m.net>
Message-ID: <CAKF9HhZiKRg27wFxhgxW9JaeZtmtEVTwM8jJJEnMNWo01f2kOw@mail.gmail.com>

Add me to the list of diversity operators.  I typically have one beverage
in one ear and some other directional antenna in the other. For the Stew -
this was a 1200 foot beverage towards the East coast and a Hi-Z array (4
directions) in the other ear.  I would typically have the 4 SQ also East to
help with those QRP stations - and then switch it towards the West when the
JAs are coming through.  If a weak station calls - I check the 4 SQ to see
if they are coming in from the North or South.  A lot of my W6 QSOs were
with stations using marginal antennas and they are pretty weak when things
are pointing East.

At my previous QTH - I had five directions covered by beverages and I could
quickly switch directions using a control box with momentary pushbuttons:

http://www.kkn.net/n6tr/160/bev/BevBox2.jpg  (shown before I got my K3).

With the antennas both East - the signals float around inside my head as
QSB happens.  I typically find that with one antenna - I often miss part of
a callsign with QSB - but with two - I can often get all of the call the
first time.  This is very noticeable on 80 meters when working Japan.

Tree N6TR

On Mon, Dec 28, 2015 at 9:18 AM, Eric NO3M <no3m at no3m.net> wrote:

> What I have found to work well is taking advantage of a radio with dual
> receivers, not necessarily "locked", ie. diversity as in the K3, but at
> least on the same frequency.  The main RX is fixed on the "hot" direction
> at the moment, whether that be "NE" during EU peak hours or "W" after EU
> sunrise.  The sub-RX is connected to either my beverage "group" or the
> circular array (8-el BSEF).  In either case, the switching controller I use
> (homebrew) scans through directions (selectable, usually skip "N" and the
> direction already on the main RX), with about a 1/2 - 3/4 sec delay between
> switching, pausing during transmit.  I have seen comments in the past on
> here that scanning was never found to be effective, but I gather much of
> this probably had to do with the lack of flexibility in the switching /
> controlling system used (ie. scan delays not adjustable, antennas
> added/removed from scan sequence on the fly, etc).
>
> Having a diversity capable rig is helpful if the station is weak, a single
> button press on my switching controller ("Track" button) will switch the
> opposite receiver selection to an available RX antenna in the same
> direction as the one being requested to be tracked, work him, then click
> the "Track" button again on my controller and the original opposite receive
> antenna selection is restored.
>
> 73 Eric NO3M
>
>
>
> On 12/28/2015 11:47 AM, Art Snapper wrote:
>
>> Do any of you wish to share your methodology on using directional receive
>> antennas during a run?
>>
>> The inverted-L was way too noisy with the lightning static, to hear weak
>> and distant stations.
>>
>> On the other hand, I am sure I missed some stations, by being on the
>> wrong-direction receiving antenna at the time they called.
>>
>> de Art NK8X
>>
>> ?
>> _________________
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>
>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>

From cx6vm.jorge at gmail.com  Mon Dec 28 12:31:38 2015
From: cx6vm.jorge at gmail.com (Jorge Diez CX6VM)
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2015 14:31:38 -0300
Subject: Topband: beverage resistors at Mouser.com
Message-ID: <568171f9.cb0d1f0a.dcafc.49ad@mx.google.com>

Hello

 

I am looking for beverage resistors, I think 470 ohms 2 watts will be OK,
right?

 

In mouser.com I found 

 

660-MOS2CT52R471J  and 660-MOS2C471J

 

Wich one is better? Or maybe another part number that you know?

 

Thanks,

Jorge

CX6VM/CW5W



---
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From jim at audiosystemsgroup.com  Mon Dec 28 12:37:55 2015
From: jim at audiosystemsgroup.com (Jim Brown)
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2015 09:37:55 -0800
Subject: Topband: directional receive and contests
In-Reply-To: <CAH6Jzyk+dv3jZE97sABgn3f=a4TzqWtFeHrKDnnQ3U7ZG-S+Ow@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAH6Jzyk+dv3jZE97sABgn3f=a4TzqWtFeHrKDnnQ3U7ZG-S+Ow@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56817373.8040107@audiosystemsgroup.com>

On Mon,12/28/2015 8:47 AM, Art Snapper wrote:
> Do any of you wish to share your methodology on using directional receive antennas during a run?

YES! Listen for more than 2 seconds after a CQ. It's really a bummer to 
call a station who has started CQing again before you've sent half of 
your callsign once! Switch directions often. Study propagation and try 
listening in different directions.

73, Jim K9YC

From jim at audiosystemsgroup.com  Mon Dec 28 12:44:24 2015
From: jim at audiosystemsgroup.com (Jim Brown)
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2015 09:44:24 -0800
Subject: Topband: directional receive and contests
In-Reply-To: <56816EEE.3020408@no3m.net>
References: <CAH6Jzyk+dv3jZE97sABgn3f=a4TzqWtFeHrKDnnQ3U7ZG-S+Ow@mail.gmail.com>
	<56816EEE.3020408@no3m.net>
Message-ID: <568174F8.60309@audiosystemsgroup.com>

On Mon,12/28/2015 9:18 AM, Eric NO3M wrote:
> What I have found to work well 

Pay attention to everything Eric says, and take a look at his web page 
showing his RX antenna farm.  Eric consistently has the best ears on the 
band! In the 4-5 years I've been working QRP on 160M, only once has Eric 
failed to hear me, and he usually hears me within the first 15-20 
seconds that I begin calling. And I'm nearly always in the direction 
opposite from the dominant opening to his QTH. He's the only guy that 
far east I can work mid-evening -- for everyone else, I must wait for 
late evening and sunrise openings.

73, Jim K9YC

From k2xx at swva.net  Mon Dec 28 12:51:12 2015
From: k2xx at swva.net (Joe Giacobello, K2XX)
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2015 12:51:12 -0500
Subject: Topband: SP conditions
In-Reply-To: <CAJ_qRvba2XeMw=pVsDm9Ed3m5MBPw31qWHx+z+xR3=zpbr3Nzw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAH6JzynpKahxo1EZSxYURdo_xJvZKiZg6soDDc5Y6W23SHt1HQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJ_qRvba2XeMw=pVsDm9Ed3m5MBPw31qWHx+z+xR3=zpbr3Nzw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56817690.1060404@swva.net>

I was only doing S&P so I was continuously tuning the band.  Conditions 
here in SW VA were pretty poor.  I only worked five EU stations, all in 
Eastern EU.  They generally were good copy despite the QRN and showed up 
here around 0400Z.  KV4FZ and NP2X were weak at first, but their sigs 
picked up as the night progressed and they became quite strong.  While I 
was trying to work N7DD in AZ, he threw in the towel and went QRT 
because the QRN was so bad at his QTH.  I did work him later though.  
California and  the west coast did not exist for me.  The furthest west 
station that I worked was in Las Vegas.  The local QRN here seemed to 
let up around 0430Z (local) Saturday.

Conditions Sunday morning were very poor.  There was no sign of Asian DX 
or even the west coast.  Furthest west signal worked was Colorado.

Tim, I was copying SM5EDX Sunday night too.  While he was easy copy, he 
wasn't as strong here, but you're about 250 miles NE of me.

At this QTH, I have found conditions on 160M for this year and last year 
unusually poor.  80M has generally been poor this season also.

73, Joe
K2XX

> Tim Shoppa <mailto:tshoppa at gmail.com>
> Monday, December 28, 2015 11:22 AM
> I felt results to EU were average to above average. I was very surprised
> and pleased when two EU's were among the first replies to my CQ's.
>
> I was very surprised in other direction, in initial hours how few
> midwesterners were calling in. Usually I rack up several W9's with my 
> first
> CQ's although it is well before their sundown. Pretty soon I figured 
> out it
> must be thunderstorm activity in midwest.
>
> In initial hours I was not hearing much thunderstorm noise myself, but for
> a while around 0300-0400Z there were a couple times I ripped my headphones
> off and threw them on the ground myself, the lightning noise was so bad,
> even though I was far away from the bad weather. Other than that hour 
> I did
> not feel hindered by thunderstorm noise myself, but I'm sure a lot of 
> folks
> were scared to even plug in their antenna.
>
> I worked a couple loud and easy W6's and W7's but not many at all. I think
> this may have been a very rare year where I worked a lot more EU than W6's
> and W7's.
>
> I just looked at my reversebeacon reports and I feel I did very well 
> to EU,
> much better than expected given my few reversebeacon spots in EU.
>
> Last night (night after Stew), SM5EDX had huge signal on 160M and I worked
> him easy with 100W.
>
> Tim N3QE
>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> Art Snapper <mailto:art at nk8x.net>
> Sunday, December 27, 2015 2:24 PM
> I was a little disappointed with conditions here in Michigan last night.
> It seemed more like the Summer Stew with the lightning static from the
> storms in Texas and the Upper Mississippi Valley.
>
> I'll refrain from any comments on manmade climate change.
>
> 73
> Art NK8X
>
> ?
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

From k9fd at flex.com  Mon Dec 28 13:06:13 2015
From: k9fd at flex.com (Merv Schweigert)
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2015 08:06:13 -1000
Subject: Topband: directional receive and contests
In-Reply-To: <568174F8.60309@audiosystemsgroup.com>
References: <CAH6Jzyk+dv3jZE97sABgn3f=a4TzqWtFeHrKDnnQ3U7ZG-S+Ow@mail.gmail.com>	<56816EEE.3020408@no3m.net>
	<568174F8.60309@audiosystemsgroup.com>
Message-ID: <56817A15.1000905@flex.com>

Agree with Jim,  Eric hears me when most others have their "ears" super 
glued
to EU and never change directions.

The best station I have ever worked was K9DX when he had up his arrays 
and remote
set ups,   he would hear me before my sunset and come back with the 
transmit array
my direction with S9 signals,
I dont know how he switched receive arrays but he could be working EU 
and with my one
call come back to my weak signal.   I could call an hour and others 
would never listen
this direction.
I have heard a thousand excuses as to why etc,  but it all comes down to 
operator
ability,  so kudos to these guys who have the hardware and know how to 
use it.

73 Merv K9FD/KH6

> On Mon,12/28/2015 9:18 AM, Eric NO3M wrote:
>> What I have found to work well 
>
> Pay attention to everything Eric says, and take a look at his web page 
> showing his RX antenna farm.  Eric consistently has the best ears on 
> the band! In the 4-5 years I've been working QRP on 160M, only once 
> has Eric failed to hear me, and he usually hears me within the first 
> 15-20 seconds that I begin calling. And I'm nearly always in the 
> direction opposite from the dominant opening to his QTH. He's the only 
> guy that far east I can work mid-evening -- for everyone else, I must 
> wait for late evening and sunrise openings.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>


From mikewate at gmail.com  Mon Dec 28 13:15:17 2015
From: mikewate at gmail.com (Mike Waters)
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2015 12:15:17 -0600
Subject: Topband: beverage resistors at Mouser.com
In-Reply-To: <568171f9.cb0d1f0a.dcafc.49ad@mx.google.com>
References: <568171f9.cb0d1f0a.dcafc.49ad@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CA+FxYXiOzbo7TyTTpCtyPQaQuNg0+tnwizp9758vQ7CgKft+XQ@mail.gmail.com>

Jorge,

Those might work, although they *might* be inductive (but probably not
enough to matter at 160m) and *might* not have the surge rating that the
Ohmite OY resistors have. But I am not sure.

The ones below are the ones everyone uses. However, the 2W 470 ohm type OY
appear to be out of stock. The ones below should work fine.

588-OY-470-E
<http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Ohmite/OY471KE/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvmQ%252bOLa8n%2fM0AL619UxluYs%252bchll6qvbU%3d>

588-OY-390-E
<http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Ohmite/OY391KE/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvmQ%252bOLa8n%2fM9UfS4H1uSv96z622JnjmoY%3d>

588-OX-470-E
<http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Ohmite/OX471KE/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvmQ%252bOLa8n%2fM0AL619UxluYHfapLNvkuuU%3d>

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com

On Mon, Dec 28, 2015 at 11:31 AM, Jorge Diez CX6VM <cx6vm.jorge at gmail.com>
wrote:

> I am looking for beverage resistors, I think 470 ohms 2 watts will be OK,
> right?
>
> In mouser.com I found 660-MOS2CT52R471J  and 660-MOS2C471J
>
> Which one is better? Or maybe another part number that you know?
>

From egan.dennis88 at gmail.com  Mon Dec 28 13:34:17 2015
From: egan.dennis88 at gmail.com (Dennis)
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2015 13:34:17 -0500
Subject: Topband: directional receive and contests
In-Reply-To: <CAH6Jzyk+dv3jZE97sABgn3f=a4TzqWtFeHrKDnnQ3U7ZG-S+Ow@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAH6Jzyk+dv3jZE97sABgn3f=a4TzqWtFeHrKDnnQ3U7ZG-S+Ow@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <568180A9.9090209@gmail.com>

Art

I operated the entire Stew with a 160m 4-square antenna, with no 
listening antennas.  One hand on the keyboard,
one hand on the 4-square directional switch.  After every CQ, if a 
signal was not heard using the xmit
direction, the switch was rotated through the other positions to make 
sure I didn't miss anything.  There
were numerous times where a signal would be inaudible in the starting 
direction, but would pop up
to Q5 when the switch was rotated.

The only way I've found not to miss anything is to constantly be 
changing the direction on any
listening antennas that I am using.

Dennis W1UE


On 12/28/2015 11:47 AM, Art Snapper wrote:
> Do any of you wish to share your methodology on using directional receive
> antennas during a run?
>
> The inverted-L was way too noisy with the lightning static, to hear weak
> and distant stations.
>
> On the other hand, I am sure I missed some stations, by being on the
> wrong-direction receiving antenna at the time they called.
>
> de Art NK8X
>
> ?
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


From nn4t at comcast.net  Mon Dec 28 13:36:45 2015
From: nn4t at comcast.net (nn4t at comcast.net)
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2015 18:36:45 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Topband: directional receive and contests
In-Reply-To: <56817A15.1000905@flex.com>
References: <CAH6Jzyk+dv3jZE97sABgn3f=a4TzqWtFeHrKDnnQ3U7ZG-S+Ow@mail.gmail.com>
	<56816EEE.3020408@no3m.net> <568174F8.60309@audiosystemsgroup.com>
	<56817A15.1000905@flex.com>
Message-ID: <1607483035.4743601.1451327805443.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net>

Good morning Art. I have used the AY Technologies 8 position switch. I can instantly switch between any of the 8 beverages and can also select any two simultaneously. I use this more for DXing than contesting but it seems to work well for me. Best, Steve NN4T 

----- Original Message -----

From: "Merv Schweigert" <k9fd at flex.com> 
To: topband at contesting.com 
Sent: Monday, December 28, 2015 12:06:13 PM 
Subject: Re: Topband: directional receive and contests 

Agree with Jim, Eric hears me when most others have their "ears" super 
glued 
to EU and never change directions. 

The best station I have ever worked was K9DX when he had up his arrays 
and remote 
set ups, he would hear me before my sunset and come back with the 
transmit array 
my direction with S9 signals, 
I dont know how he switched receive arrays but he could be working EU 
and with my one 
call come back to my weak signal. I could call an hour and others 
would never listen 
this direction. 
I have heard a thousand excuses as to why etc, but it all comes down to 
operator 
ability, so kudos to these guys who have the hardware and know how to 
use it. 

73 Merv K9FD/KH6 

> On Mon,12/28/2015 9:18 AM, Eric NO3M wrote: 
>> What I have found to work well 
> 
> Pay attention to everything Eric says, and take a look at his web page 
> showing his RX antenna farm. Eric consistently has the best ears on 
> the band! In the 4-5 years I've been working QRP on 160M, only once 
> has Eric failed to hear me, and he usually hears me within the first 
> 15-20 seconds that I begin calling. And I'm nearly always in the 
> direction opposite from the dominant opening to his QTH. He's the only 
> guy that far east I can work mid-evening -- for everyone else, I must 
> wait for late evening and sunrise openings. 
> 
> 73, Jim K9YC 
> _________________ 
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband 
> 

_________________ 
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband 


From barry.n1eu at gmail.com  Mon Dec 28 13:51:47 2015
From: barry.n1eu at gmail.com (Barry N1EU)
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2015 13:51:47 -0500
Subject: Topband: directional receive and contests
In-Reply-To: <1607483035.4743601.1451327805443.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net>
References: <CAH6Jzyk+dv3jZE97sABgn3f=a4TzqWtFeHrKDnnQ3U7ZG-S+Ow@mail.gmail.com>
	<56816EEE.3020408@no3m.net> <568174F8.60309@audiosystemsgroup.com>
	<56817A15.1000905@flex.com>
	<1607483035.4743601.1451327805443.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <CAFmfzDuO77Qvxd04Xu_Yp-WD7xxob6KO6x-=UU13Rk_3-wXSsQ@mail.gmail.com>

I can't imagine doing a 160M contest WITHOUT dual receive.  With 580ft
two-wire Beverages at right angles, and a foot switch to reverse both of
them, I can easily hear in a 360 degree arc: listen 1-2 sec NW and SW, step
on switch, 1-2 sec NE and SE, call CQ, repeat.  When it's pre-dawn, I
generally only listen NW, SW.

580ft Beverages might give up a bit of ultimate S/N over longer Beverages
but I find them the perfect length to cover 360 degrees like this and also
hear just enough in the reverse direction for me to know there's a caller.

73,
Barry N1EU

From cx6vm.jorge at gmail.com  Mon Dec 28 13:53:08 2015
From: cx6vm.jorge at gmail.com (Jorge Diez CX6VM)
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2015 15:53:08 -0300
Subject: Topband: beverage resistors at Mouser.com
In-Reply-To: <CA+FxYXiOzbo7TyTTpCtyPQaQuNg0+tnwizp9758vQ7CgKft+XQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <568171f9.cb0d1f0a.dcafc.49ad@mx.google.com>
	<CA+FxYXiOzbo7TyTTpCtyPQaQuNg0+tnwizp9758vQ7CgKft+XQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56818513.8eac1f0a.c7785.0c92@mx.google.com>

Thanks all for the help, very useful information

 

Happy New Year!

 

73,

Jorge

CX6VM/CW5W

 

De: Mike Waters [mailto:mikewate at gmail.com] 
Enviado el: lunes, 28 de diciembre de 2015 03:15 p.m.
Para: Jorge Diez CX6VM
CC: topband
Asunto: Re: Topband: beverage resistors at Mouser.com

 

Jorge,

Those might work, although they might be inductive (but probably not enough to matter at 160m) and might not have the surge rating that the Ohmite OY resistors have. But I am not sure.

The ones below are the ones everyone uses. However, the 2W 470 ohm type OY appear to be out of stock. The ones below should work fine. 


588-OY-470-E <http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Ohmite/OY471KE/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvmQ%252bOLa8n%2fM0AL619UxluYs%252bchll6qvbU%3d> 

588-OY-390-E <http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Ohmite/OY391KE/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvmQ%252bOLa8n%2fM9UfS4H1uSv96z622JnjmoY%3d> 

588-OX-470-E <http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Ohmite/OX471KE/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvmQ%252bOLa8n%2fM0AL619UxluYHfapLNvkuuU%3d> 

73, Mike

www.w0btu.com

 

On Mon, Dec 28, 2015 at 11:31 AM, Jorge Diez CX6VM <cx6vm.jorge at gmail.com> wrote:

I am looking for beverage resistors, I think 470 ohms 2 watts will be OK, right?

In mouser.com I found 660-MOS2CT52R471J  and 660-MOS2C471J

Which one is better? Or maybe another part number that you know?

 



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https://www.avast.com/antivirus

From keepwalking188 at ac0c.com  Mon Dec 28 14:15:21 2015
From: keepwalking188 at ac0c.com (Jeff AC0C)
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2015 13:15:21 -0600
Subject: Topband: beverage resistors at Mouser.com
In-Reply-To: <56818513.8eac1f0a.c7785.0c92@mx.google.com>
References: <568171f9.cb0d1f0a.dcafc.49ad@mx.google.com><CA+FxYXiOzbo7TyTTpCtyPQaQuNg0+tnwizp9758vQ7CgKft+XQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<56818513.8eac1f0a.c7785.0c92@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <4BB9B6B36C2A40BEA0DD4A96A83A4431@w520>

If you are going to make the order, consider using several in parallel to 
improve the surge handling capability.  I use 6x 2700 ohms here.

73/jeff/ac0c
www.ac0c.com
alpha-charlie-zero-charlie

-----Original Message----- 
From: Jorge Diez CX6VM
Sent: Monday, December 28, 2015 12:53 PM
Cc: 'topband'
Subject: Re: Topband: beverage resistors at Mouser.com

Thanks all for the help, very useful information



Happy New Year!



73,

Jorge

CX6VM/CW5W



De: Mike Waters [mailto:mikewate at gmail.com]
Enviado el: lunes, 28 de diciembre de 2015 03:15 p.m.
Para: Jorge Diez CX6VM
CC: topband
Asunto: Re: Topband: beverage resistors at Mouser.com



Jorge,

Those might work, although they might be inductive (but probably not enough 
to matter at 160m) and might not have the surge rating that the Ohmite OY 
resistors have. But I am not sure.

The ones below are the ones everyone uses. However, the 2W 470 ohm type OY 
appear to be out of stock. The ones below should work fine.


588-OY-470-E 
<http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Ohmite/OY471KE/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvmQ%252bOLa8n%2fM0AL619UxluYs%252bchll6qvbU%3d>

588-OY-390-E 
<http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Ohmite/OY391KE/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvmQ%252bOLa8n%2fM9UfS4H1uSv96z622JnjmoY%3d>

588-OX-470-E 
<http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Ohmite/OX471KE/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvmQ%252bOLa8n%2fM0AL619UxluYHfapLNvkuuU%3d>

73, Mike

www.w0btu.com



On Mon, Dec 28, 2015 at 11:31 AM, Jorge Diez CX6VM <cx6vm.jorge at gmail.com> 
wrote:

I am looking for beverage resistors, I think 470 ohms 2 watts will be OK, 
right?

In mouser.com I found 660-MOS2CT52R471J  and 660-MOS2C471J

Which one is better? Or maybe another part number that you know?





---
El software de antivirus Avast ha analizado este correo electr?nico en busca 
de virus.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
_________________
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband 


From runeegil at hotmail.com  Mon Dec 28 15:50:32 2015
From: runeegil at hotmail.com (=?iso-8859-1?B?UnVuZSDYeWU=?=)
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2015 20:50:32 +0000
Subject: Topband: My project during Christmas 2015
Message-ID: <DUB126-W47B67FF19892A927791221C4FB0@phx.gbl>

Hi all and Merry Christmas.
Before Christmas I received my NCC-1 from Dx Engineering, noise canceler and phase  box.
I have made two antennas, none resonant antenna approx. 7.3 meter long. I measure the impedance to around 200 ohm on 160. Thereafter I made  a 2.67 ratio transformer 200 to 75 ohm using 4 turn primary and 7 turn on secondary on a 73-mix FairRite Products 2873000202 core.After I was done I try to see if I have enough signal this means: one antenna was approx. 30 meters (100 feet) from my house and antenna two approx. 60 meters (200)feet from my house.
At around 1300 local time that is "middle" of the daylight ours and supposing the most quite time of day, I did my test. I could see the signal increase on my receiver (none NCC/1 connected yet) with approx. 5 to 6 db when I connect antenna that was closest to my house and about 4db increase on noise floor on antenna that is most further from my house. The different I guess is due to local noise from my house and garage.According to ON4UN book, this is a good method to use. If you see increase of signal that would normally be enough.
When my Radio is on (SUNSDR pro2) and connected to dummy load I see my noise floor at approx. -140dbm. When I connect the NCC-1, my receiver  (no antenna connected yet) noise floor increase to approx. -135dbm.
I connected the two antennas on port A and B and using 10 dB preamp on my receiver, I then see the same noise floor approx. -135dbm or just a touch of signal increase on the noise floor. (internal loss in NCC-1 is around 6 or 7 dB I have heard, not tested yet.)Should I make my two receive antenna somewhat bigger to get a bit more signal, or is this sufficient. I use one ground rood and use two radials that has the same length as the antenna itself. I mad the system "portable" so I easy can move the element when I test. My  antenna is made with 1.5mm wire and the support is made of 6 meter (20 feet) fiberglass fishing rood and 2x2 inch wooden post. Both antenna is feed with approx. 300 feet of RG6 coax.
When I test the antenna on 80 and 40 meter band it all seems ok but, on 160 I haven't got a signal that is weak enough yet :-) The noise floor now in the evening is approx. -124dbm   
  
Anyone that have suggestion or comments.
"antennas mounted in bad wheatear do always perform best :-)"
(off course it start to snow that day :-)

73 Rune LA7THA 		 	   		  

From dl8yhrfrank at aol.com  Mon Dec 28 16:15:43 2015
From: dl8yhrfrank at aol.com (dl8yhrfrank at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2015 16:15:43 -0500
Subject: Topband: rest wire from beverages still on the cabel reel......
Message-ID: <8D30FCC0B8B8B56-1A54-4ADC36@webmail-vm110.sysops.aol.com>

 

 Hi all...
Wondering if annyone ever had same problem and knows if it works ore not
I have several Fileds from differend farmers in use...ometimes i can set 300m beverage..sometimes i must short them for few weeks to 200 ore less..
Will it work if i keep the rest wire...maybe 50 to 100m....on the cabel reel and set the resistor on the end in the time when farmers needs the fields ore will this not work?
Annyone may tryed?Wire is isolated wire,,,
Anny Info vy welcome
Vy 73
Frank
DL8YHR


From k1fz at myfairpoint.net  Mon Dec 28 16:30:36 2015
From: k1fz at myfairpoint.net (=?utf-8?b?SzFGWi1CcnVjZQ==?=)
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2015 16:30:36 -0500
Subject: Topband: directional receive and contests
In-Reply-To: <CAKF9HhZiKRg27wFxhgxW9JaeZtmtEVTwM8jJJEnMNWo01f2kOw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAH6Jzyk+dv3jZE97sABgn3f=a4TzqWtFeHrKDnnQ3U7ZG-S+Ow@mail.gmail.com>
	<56816EEE.3020408@no3m.net>
	<CAKF9HhZiKRg27wFxhgxW9JaeZtmtEVTwM8jJJEnMNWo01f2kOw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20151228163036.qyu1wq9vqco8c8wk@webmail.myfairpoint.net>

?
Early in 1925? Radio?Corporation of America station 1XAO had one near 
10 mile long wave antenna.? In 1926 they had three spaced 6 miles each. 
Harold H. Beverage discovered diversity reception when switching 
between antennas. When the signal was fading on one, it could be 
peaking on another. 
?
AT&T Houlton, Maine used four for trans-Atlantic reception.? Above 
gain, better antenna patterns, QSB was minimized. 
?

http://www.state.me.us/newsletter/dec2003/radio_free_belfast_maine.htm
?
73
?
Bruce-k1fz
?
?
?

On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 09:30:17 -0800, Tree  wrote:

       Add me to the list of diversity operators. I typically have one beverage
in one ear and some other directional antenna in the other. For the Stew -
this was a 1200 foot beverage towards the East coast and a Hi-Z array (4
directions) in the other ear. I would typically have the 4 SQ also East to
help with those QRP stations - and then switch it towards the West when the
JAs are coming through. If a weak station calls - I check the 4 SQ to see
if they are coming in from the North or South. A lot of my W6 QSOs were
with stations using marginal antennas and they are pretty weak when things
are pointing East. 

At my previous QTH - I had five directions covered by beverages and I could
quickly switch directions using a control box with momentary pushbuttons:

http://www.kkn.net/n6tr/160/bev/BevBox2.jpg (shown before I got my K3). 

With the antennas both East - the signals float around inside my head as
QSB happens. I typically find that with one antenna - I often miss part of
a callsign with QSB - but with two - I can often get all of the call the
first time. This is very noticeable on 80 meters when working Japan. 

Tree N6TR



From mikewate at gmail.com  Mon Dec 28 16:42:43 2015
From: mikewate at gmail.com (Mike Waters)
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2015 15:42:43 -0600
Subject: Topband: beverage resistors at Mouser.com
In-Reply-To: <4BB9B6B36C2A40BEA0DD4A96A83A4431@w520>
References: <568171f9.cb0d1f0a.dcafc.49ad@mx.google.com>
	<CA+FxYXiOzbo7TyTTpCtyPQaQuNg0+tnwizp9758vQ7CgKft+XQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<56818513.8eac1f0a.c7785.0c92@mx.google.com>
	<4BB9B6B36C2A40BEA0DD4A96A83A4431@w520>
Message-ID: <CA+FxYXhkRW2aV4Gc=SHC2rQrtFxr80Hw2jyeq-574hdsDvHFPw@mail.gmail.com>

Jeff,

Do you mean six of the Ohmite type OY resistors in parallel?! I can
understand paralleling CF resistors, but just one of those OYs will take
quite a hit.

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com

On Mon, Dec 28, 2015 at 1:15 PM, Jeff AC0C <keepwalking188 at ac0c.com> wrote:

> If you are going to make the order, consider using several in parallel to
> improve the surge handling capability.  I use 6x 2700 ohms here.
>
> Those might work, although they might be inductive (but probably not
> enough to matter at 160m) and might not have the surge rating that the
> Ohmite OY resistors have. But I am not sure.
>
> The ones below are the ones everyone uses. However, the 2W 470 ohm type OY
> appear to be out of stock. The ones below should work fine.
>
>
> 588-OY-470-E <
> http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Ohmite/OY471KE/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvmQ%252bOLa8n%2fM0AL619UxluYs%252bchll6qvbU%3d
> >
>
> 588-OY-390-E <
> http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Ohmite/OY391KE/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvmQ%252bOLa8n%2fM9UfS4H1uSv96z622JnjmoY%3d
> >
>
> 588-OX-470-E <
> http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Ohmite/OX471KE/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvmQ%252bOLa8n%2fM0AL619UxluYHfapLNvkuuU%3d
> >
>
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 28, 2015 at 11:31 AM, Jorge Diez CX6VM <cx6vm.jorge at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> I am looking for beverage resistors, I think 470 ohms 2 watts will be OK,
> right?
>
> In mouser.com I found 660-MOS2CT52R471J  and 660-MOS2C471J
>
>

From art at nk8x.net  Mon Dec 28 16:58:39 2015
From: art at nk8x.net (Art Snapper)
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2015 16:58:39 -0500
Subject: Topband: directional receive and contests
In-Reply-To: <CAH6Jzyk+dv3jZE97sABgn3f=a4TzqWtFeHrKDnnQ3U7ZG-S+Ow@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAH6Jzyk+dv3jZE97sABgn3f=a4TzqWtFeHrKDnnQ3U7ZG-S+Ow@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAH6JzynfC7ULu6=_XoRjbyDyuY=jbT7pxJkPODdzQ+kMuuKb-w@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for all the input on this. I am pretty well set up to do non-sync'd
diversity. I need to improve antenna switching though.

My 2.5 acre suburban lot seems to be getting smaller and smaller, while the
neighbors are increasingly convinced that I am nuts.

Art NK8X
?

On Mon, Dec 28, 2015 at 11:47 AM, Art Snapper <art at nk8x.net> wrote:

> Do any of you wish to share your methodology on using directional receive
> antennas during a run?
>
> The inverted-L was way too noisy with the lightning static, to hear weak
> and distant stations.
>
> On the other hand, I am sure I missed some stations, by being on the
> wrong-direction receiving antenna at the time they called.
>
> de Art NK8X
>
> ?
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

From w8ji at w8ji.com  Mon Dec 28 17:13:15 2015
From: w8ji at w8ji.com (Tom W8JI)
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2015 17:13:15 -0500
Subject: Topband: beverage resistors at Mouser.com
References: <568171f9.cb0d1f0a.dcafc.49ad@mx.google.com><CA+FxYXiOzbo7TyTTpCtyPQaQuNg0+tnwizp9758vQ7CgKft+XQ@mail.gmail.com><56818513.8eac1f0a.c7785.0c92@mx.google.com>
	<4BB9B6B36C2A40BEA0DD4A96A83A4431@w520>
Message-ID: <CCD5D63C30A448B2AFFC0D851C6188CF@MAIN>

> If you are going to make the order, consider using several in parallel to 
> improve the surge handling capability.  I use 6x 2700 ohms here.
>
> 73/jeff/ac0c

Be real careful with the resistor choice.

A metal oxide or film resistor handles many times less surge than an OX or 
OY resistor. OX and OY resistors are 14kV and 20 kV pulse rated respectively 
without damage, and handle (OX) 40 and (OY) 70 watt-seconds for 100 pulses 
of 1 second at 50% duty.

A standard metal oxide is not remotely close, and paralleling 10 will not 
get them close. Even better MOX are only 10 watt-seconds, and not remotely 
close to the peak pulse voltage (which will not increase when they are 
parallel).

I've never actually had a single OY resistor used in a termination burn out 
from lightning, despite some pretty hard hits.  MOX are a different story 
entirely.

Either type works fine so far as reactance goes, unless the application is 
reactance critical. For a Beverage, reactance of either is not an issue. 


From n2gz at gregzenger.com  Mon Dec 28 17:51:23 2015
From: n2gz at gregzenger.com (Greg Zenger)
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2015 17:51:23 -0500
Subject: Topband: rest wire from beverages still on the cabel reel......
In-Reply-To: <8D30FCC0B8B8B56-1A54-4ADC36@webmail-vm110.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8D30FCC0B8B8B56-1A54-4ADC36@webmail-vm110.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <CAE8nip0EArvxNfM0TB+P=WS30z0N9tA9v4Smfx+94r2O8a-L3A@mail.gmail.com>

Frank,
he coil of wire on the end will add an inductance...  and terminating to a
resistor at the other end probably wont make a difference.  Basically you
now have an unterminated beverage. It will be bi-directional and the
receiving angle will be higher.

Maybe instead you can strip some insulation off of the wire and ground
(with resistor) before the coil?  I think I would short the coil just to be
safe so leave the end exposed on the reel as you wind up.  Or just cut the
antenna short and splice repair later.

Greg N2GZ



On Mon, Dec 28, 2015 at 4:15 PM, dl8yhrfrank--- via Topband <
topband at contesting.com> wrote:

>
>
>  Hi all...
> Wondering if annyone ever had same problem and knows if it works ore not
> I have several Fileds from differend farmers in use...ometimes i can set
> 300m beverage..sometimes i must short them for few weeks to 200 ore less..
> Will it work if i keep the rest wire...maybe 50 to 100m....on the cabel
> reel and set the resistor on the end in the time when farmers needs the
> fields ore will this not work?
> Annyone may tryed?Wire is isolated wire,,,
> Anny Info vy welcome
> Vy 73
> Frank
> DL8YHR
>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>

From mikewate at gmail.com  Mon Dec 28 18:22:51 2015
From: mikewate at gmail.com (Mike Waters)
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2015 17:22:51 -0600
Subject: Topband: directional receive and contests
In-Reply-To: <CAH6JzynfC7ULu6=_XoRjbyDyuY=jbT7pxJkPODdzQ+kMuuKb-w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAH6Jzyk+dv3jZE97sABgn3f=a4TzqWtFeHrKDnnQ3U7ZG-S+Ow@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAH6JzynfC7ULu6=_XoRjbyDyuY=jbT7pxJkPODdzQ+kMuuKb-w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+FxYXiXwXY-9WRjzSH8CZaCpTi0dhoEkYNq3U_VpjGEQtiTBg@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Art,

No matter what we do, there will always be people that just don't
understand us. People who think that "that ham over there" is the cause of
all their problems, real or imagined.

If we worry about what our neighbors might think, it'll simply detract from
the perfectly legal right --and fun-- we have of enjoying ourselves on 160.

Dr. Wayne W. Dyer had some unparalleled advice for us
'what-will-people-think' worriers in his best-selling books *Pulling Your
Own Strings* and *Your Erroneous Zones*. To say that those two books had a
very positive influence in my life is a gross understatement. And anyone
who frets and worries about what others might think of them should get them
PRONTO at their local public library.
This is all I could find just now:
www.habitsforwellbeing.com/what-will-other-people-think-of-me/ but those
books are far better.

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com


On Mon, Dec 28, 2015 at 3:58 PM, Art Snapper <art at nk8x.net> wrote:

> ... I need to improve antenna switching though.
> My 2.5 acre suburban lot seems to be getting smaller and smaller, while
> the neighbors are increasingly convinced that I am nuts.
>

From richard at karlquist.com  Mon Dec 28 20:08:05 2015
From: richard at karlquist.com (Richard (Rick) Karlquist)
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2015 17:08:05 -0800
Subject: Topband: directional receive and contests
In-Reply-To: <56817373.8040107@audiosystemsgroup.com>
References: <CAH6Jzyk+dv3jZE97sABgn3f=a4TzqWtFeHrKDnnQ3U7ZG-S+Ow@mail.gmail.com>
	<56817373.8040107@audiosystemsgroup.com>
Message-ID: <5681DCF5.2070500@karlquist.com>

On 12/28/2015 9:37 AM, Jim Brown wrote:

> YES! Listen for more than 2 seconds after a CQ. It's really a bummer to
> call a station who has started CQing again before you've sent half of
> your callsign once! Switch directions often. Study propagation and try
> listening in different directions.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC

Very annoying, even for guys with short calls like Jim and me.
I don't know what the guys with 2x3 calls do.  A 2 second
interval doesn't make sense in the SP where you don't have
to worry as much about losing your run frequency as in perhaps
a major contest.  (SP is the BEST contest, but not the BIGGEST
contest:-).

To expand on what Jim said:

I set my auto CQ at 5 or 6 seconds, not 2 seconds.  Nevertheless,
a significant number of times per contest, I get a caller who
waits 5 seconds before calling.  I get 1 or 2 letters then the
auto CQ starts up and covers him up.  I get the impression that
these guys are waiting to make sure no one else is calling me
to make their move.  If not that, they are just clueless.  The
only legitimate reason for doing this is that you just tuned
me in and are typing my call into your dupe checker and you
are a VERY slow typist.  (4 characters in 5 seconds?).  Even
then, better to wait for the next CQ or just send "?" so I
know you are there.  When rates are low, like 10 per hour,
it is too fatiguing to keep 1 finger on the escape key at
all times.

OTOH, I run VOX (aka KOX) as opposed to break in or a foot switch.
(I am still running a very antique rig, an FT1000 (no suffix).
The break in CW has weight errors at contest speeds.)  There is
a slight (very slight) time delay before I hear.  It is a
big time waster when some eager beaver can't wait 100 milliseconds
to start calling and I don't copy the first letter of his call.
Half the time when I ask for a fill, he does it again and I
still don't get the first letter.  I've had to deal with these
guys by sending whatever remnant of their call I can copy
and then they will correct me.  More time wasted.
I never respond to a station instantly like that, but instead
wait just a tenth of a second or two.

Rick N6RK

From artw4aa at bellsouth.net  Mon Dec 28 20:41:39 2015
From: artw4aa at bellsouth.net (artw4aa at bellsouth.net)
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2015 20:41:39 -0500
Subject: Topband: Beverage Crow's Foot Ground Wire Pattern
Message-ID: <754020515A3A44F8AF62EC1014D3E912@ART2PC>

What is the recommended pattern for the crow?s foot ground wires at each end of a two-wire reversible Beverage?  Should ALL the ground wires be in the 180 degree plane behind the Beverage wire, or does it make any difference?  I don?t imagine it?s a very good idea to put a ground wire under, or very close to, the Beverage wire itself. 
73, Art/W4AA 

From w8ji at w8ji.com  Mon Dec 28 20:53:48 2015
From: w8ji at w8ji.com (Tom W8JI)
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2015 20:53:48 -0500
Subject: Topband: Beverage Crow's Foot Ground Wire Pattern
References: <754020515A3A44F8AF62EC1014D3E912@ART2PC>
Message-ID: <F9A08D6D2EA541BD94AF09B3B9FADFF8@MAIN>

> What is the recommended pattern for the crow?s foot ground wires at each 
> end of a two-wire reversible Beverage?  Should ALL the ground wires be in 
> the 180 degree plane behind the Beverage wire, or does it make any 
> difference?  I don?t imagine it?s a very good idea to put a ground wire 
> under, or very close to, the Beverage wire itself.
> 73, Art/W4AA
> _________________

The antenna common mode impedance is 400-600 ohms.  What you do with a 
ground is not going to matter much, as long as the ground is less than 50 
ohms resistance or so.

Unless you are on permafrost, dry sand, or some other terrible soil just a 
couple ground rods are more than enough.  A few short radials are just extra 
insurance if the soil is questionable.

 


From mikewate at gmail.com  Mon Dec 28 21:11:26 2015
From: mikewate at gmail.com (Mike Waters)
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2015 20:11:26 -0600
Subject: Topband: Beverage Crow's Foot Ground Wire Pattern
In-Reply-To: <F9A08D6D2EA541BD94AF09B3B9FADFF8@MAIN>
References: <754020515A3A44F8AF62EC1014D3E912@ART2PC>
	<F9A08D6D2EA541BD94AF09B3B9FADFF8@MAIN>
Message-ID: <CA+FxYXh4PyAB5cPYcoiAd80YXA7FQGkDEJwc51JacjNRfn2aYA@mail.gmail.com>

Or frozen soil. :-)

When I first installed my NE-SW 2-wire Beverage, signals off the SW
(reverse/feed) end were weak. The quick fix was to pour a hot concentrated
solution of Epsom salts around the rod.

I think part of the problem was that the ground rod was not making good
contact with the soil near the surface. (That's often typical of a
freshly-driven-in rod.) The experience is described at
www.w0btu.com/Beverage_antennas.html#Beverage_antenna_grounds

The radials I had there are probably gone now; there's just the two
copper-clad ground rods, and I still hear VKs and ZLs off the reverse end.

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com

On Mon, Dec 28, 2015 at 7:53 PM, Tom W8JI <w8ji at w8ji.com> wrote:

> Unless you are on permafrost, dry sand, or some other terrible soil just a
> couple ground rods are more than enough.  A few short radials are just
> extra insurance if the soil is questionable.
>

From keepwalking188 at ac0c.com  Mon Dec 28 21:13:08 2015
From: keepwalking188 at ac0c.com (Jeff AC0C)
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2015 20:13:08 -0600
Subject: Topband: beverage resistors at Mouser.com
In-Reply-To: <CCD5D63C30A448B2AFFC0D851C6188CF@MAIN>
References: <568171f9.cb0d1f0a.dcafc.49ad@mx.google.com><CA+FxYXiOzbo7TyTTpCtyPQaQuNg0+tnwizp9758vQ7CgKft+XQ@mail.gmail.com><56818513.8eac1f0a.c7785.0c92@mx.google.com>
	<4BB9B6B36C2A40BEA0DD4A96A83A4431@w520>
	<CCD5D63C30A448B2AFFC0D851C6188CF@MAIN>
Message-ID: <1DEA46C6BDA54C34821762FD80756E53@w520>

I have OY from Mouser.

Someone said the interested value was out of stock.  If you are going to 
ship to Spain, then get the right type (OY) and just pick a higher value 
where the parallel combo will give you the value you want.  Easy solution 
for the incremental cost over what would be a high shipping bill is 
essentially zero.

73/jeff/ac0c
www.ac0c.com
alpha-charlie-zero-charlie

-----Original Message----- 
From: Tom W8JI
Sent: Monday, December 28, 2015 4:13 PM
To: Jeff AC0C ; Jorge Diez CX6VM
Cc: 'topband'
Subject: Re: Topband: beverage resistors at Mouser.com

> If you are going to make the order, consider using several in parallel to 
> improve the surge handling capability.  I use 6x 2700 ohms here.
>
> 73/jeff/ac0c

Be real careful with the resistor choice.

A metal oxide or film resistor handles many times less surge than an OX or
OY resistor. OX and OY resistors are 14kV and 20 kV pulse rated respectively
without damage, and handle (OX) 40 and (OY) 70 watt-seconds for 100 pulses
of 1 second at 50% duty.

A standard metal oxide is not remotely close, and paralleling 10 will not
get them close. Even better MOX are only 10 watt-seconds, and not remotely
close to the peak pulse voltage (which will not increase when they are
parallel).

I've never actually had a single OY resistor used in a termination burn out
from lightning, despite some pretty hard hits.  MOX are a different story
entirely.

Either type works fine so far as reactance goes, unless the application is
reactance critical. For a Beverage, reactance of either is not an issue. 


From keepwalking188 at ac0c.com  Mon Dec 28 21:18:02 2015
From: keepwalking188 at ac0c.com (Jeff AC0C)
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2015 20:18:02 -0600
Subject: Topband: beverage resistors at Mouser.com
In-Reply-To: <CA+FxYXhkRW2aV4Gc=SHC2rQrtFxr80Hw2jyeq-574hdsDvHFPw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <568171f9.cb0d1f0a.dcafc.49ad@mx.google.com><CA+FxYXiOzbo7TyTTpCtyPQaQuNg0+tnwizp9758vQ7CgKft+XQ@mail.gmail.com><56818513.8eac1f0a.c7785.0c92@mx.google.com><4BB9B6B36C2A40BEA0DD4A96A83A4431@w520>
	<CA+FxYXhkRW2aV4Gc=SHC2rQrtFxr80Hw2jyeq-574hdsDvHFPw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1DD26D5CD80E4AD5B676881636A43751@w520>

Yes.  They are cheap and I had no idea of what the lightning risk would be 
here.

I've had to do work on the active antennas a few times so I know ground 
level lighting currents are around.  But never had a problem with the 
beverage.  Maybe I'm just lucky.

73/jeff/ac0c
www.ac0c.com
alpha-charlie-zero-charlie

-----Original Message----- 
From: Mike Waters
Sent: Monday, December 28, 2015 3:42 PM
To: Jeff AC0C
Cc: Jorge Diez CX6VM ; topband
Subject: Re: Topband: beverage resistors at Mouser.com

Jeff,

Do you mean six of the Ohmite type OY resistors in parallel?! I can
understand paralleling CF resistors, but just one of those OYs will take
quite a hit.

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com

On Mon, Dec 28, 2015 at 1:15 PM, Jeff AC0C <keepwalking188 at ac0c.com> wrote:

> If you are going to make the order, consider using several in parallel to
> improve the surge handling capability.  I use 6x 2700 ohms here.
>
> Those might work, although they might be inductive (but probably not
> enough to matter at 160m) and might not have the surge rating that the
> Ohmite OY resistors have. But I am not sure.
>
> The ones below are the ones everyone uses. However, the 2W 470 ohm type OY
> appear to be out of stock. The ones below should work fine.
>
>
> 588-OY-470-E <
> http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Ohmite/OY471KE/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvmQ%252bOLa8n%2fM0AL619UxluYs%252bchll6qvbU%3d
> >
>
> 588-OY-390-E <
> http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Ohmite/OY391KE/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvmQ%252bOLa8n%2fM9UfS4H1uSv96z622JnjmoY%3d
> >
>
> 588-OX-470-E <
> http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Ohmite/OX471KE/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvmQ%252bOLa8n%2fM0AL619UxluYHfapLNvkuuU%3d
> >
>
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 28, 2015 at 11:31 AM, Jorge Diez CX6VM <cx6vm.jorge at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> I am looking for beverage resistors, I think 470 ohms 2 watts will be OK,
> right?
>
> In mouser.com I found 660-MOS2CT52R471J  and 660-MOS2C471J
>
>
_________________
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband 


From egan.dennis88 at gmail.com  Tue Dec 29 14:25:41 2015
From: egan.dennis88 at gmail.com (Dennis)
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2015 14:25:41 -0500
Subject: Topband: CX/W1UE QSOs
Message-ID: <5682DE35.1040801@gmail.com>

All the CX/W1UE QSOs were loaded into LOTW this morning.  I made 387
Qs while I was there, and 178 of them are already confirmed!

If you think you made a QSO and your not uploaded, drop me a note direct
and I will research the issue.

Dennis CX/W1UE


From breedenwb at cableone.net  Wed Dec 30 12:34:25 2015
From: breedenwb at cableone.net (Bill Breeden)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2015 11:34:25 -0600
Subject: Topband: CX/W1UE QSOs
In-Reply-To: <mailman.31.1451494808.889.topband@contesting.com>
References: <mailman.31.1451494808.889.topband@contesting.com>
Message-ID: <568415A1.4060302@cableone.net>


Dennis,

Appreciate the upload!  Both 160 and 80 were new band entities for me.

Thanks and 73,

Bill - NA5DX

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2015 14:25:41 -0500
From: Dennis <egan.dennis88 at gmail.com>
To: topband at contesting.com
Subject: Topband: CX/W1UE QSOs
Message-ID: <5682DE35.1040801 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed

All the CX/W1UE QSOs were loaded into LOTW this morning.  I made 387
Qs while I was there, and 178 of them are already confirmed!

If you think you made a QSO and your not uploaded, drop me a note direct
and I will research the issue.

Dennis CX/W1UE



From k2owr at comcast.net  Wed Dec 30 12:56:07 2015
From: k2owr at comcast.net (K4OWR)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2015 12:56:07 -0500
Subject: Topband: Commercial 160 antennas?
Message-ID: <56841AB7.3040302@comcast.net>

:::: Anyone have actual experience with any of the commercially 
available 160 antennas...such as:

http://www.dxengineering.com/parts/dxe-160va-1?seid=dxese1&gclid=Cj0KEQiAno60BRDt89rAh7qt-4wBEiQASes2tUOULTlQpNyMARBk4ZWRxw70jODW_FJCuBJ1Td47YMgaAhgQ8P8HAQ

http://www.dxengineering.com/parts/csh-ma160v?seid=dxese1&gclid=Cj0KEQiAno60BRDt89rAh7qt-4wBEiQASes2te6Z2l2AXZmKP8i8l_iGeMKA7d7_B5IymHIulbh6Z_MaAlrL8P8HAQ

OR, what is recommended for a /*reasonable*/ sized vertical (not a 43' 
type with matching coil) or requiring a tuner to match?
Or, a /*simple*/ method of loading my guyed 90' existing tower.
I have lots of room for almost anything.
Tuners on 160, with a LOT of power, always eventually blow up or catch fire.

BILL K4OWR

From wa5rtg at gmail.com  Wed Dec 30 13:15:20 2015
From: wa5rtg at gmail.com (Stan Stockton)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2015 12:15:20 -0600
Subject: Topband: Commercial 160 antennas?
In-Reply-To: <56841AB7.3040302@comcast.net>
References: <56841AB7.3040302@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <B75FE6A3-E131-4F34-AD2C-08712905ACFF@gmail.com>

Bill,

You need to shunt feed that 90 foot tower!  You can decide whether you want to install an extensive radial field or whether to easily put up a few elevated radials.  

This is an easy project and will kill the performance of a 43 foot vertical for almost no cost.

What tower is it?  Are guy wires insulated from tower and broken up with insulators?  What is on top of tower?

Stan, K5GO

Sent from Stan's IPhone



> On Dec 30, 2015, at 11:56 AM, K4OWR <k2owr at comcast.net> wrote:
> 
> :::: Anyone have actual experience with any of the commercially available 160 antennas...such as:
> 
> http://www.dxengineering.com/parts/dxe-160va-1?seid=dxese1&gclid=Cj0KEQiAno60BRDt89rAh7qt-4wBEiQASes2tUOULTlQpNyMARBk4ZWRxw70jODW_FJCuBJ1Td47YMgaAhgQ8P8HAQ
> 
> http://www.dxengineering.com/parts/csh-ma160v?seid=dxese1&gclid=Cj0KEQiAno60BRDt89rAh7qt-4wBEiQASes2te6Z2l2AXZmKP8i8l_iGeMKA7d7_B5IymHIulbh6Z_MaAlrL8P8HAQ
> 
> OR, what is recommended for a /*reasonable*/ sized vertical (not a 43' type with matching coil) or requiring a tuner to match?
> Or, a /*simple*/ method of loading my guyed 90' existing tower.
> I have lots of room for almost anything.
> Tuners on 160, with a LOT of power, always eventually blow up or catch fire.
> 
> BILL K4OWR
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

From jim at audiosystemsgroup.com  Wed Dec 30 13:50:56 2015
From: jim at audiosystemsgroup.com (Jim Brown)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2015 10:50:56 -0800
Subject: Topband: Commercial 160 antennas?
In-Reply-To: <56841AB7.3040302@comcast.net>
References: <56841AB7.3040302@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <56842790.7060202@audiosystemsgroup.com>

On Wed,12/30/2015 9:56 AM, K4OWR wrote:
> Or, a /*simple*/ method of loading my guyed 90' existing tower. 

Study the ARRL Antenna Book and the ON4UN book. Both available from 
ARRL, and you can probably find them used elsewhere. Especially for the 
ARRL Antenna Book, make sure you get the CD that comes with it.

Don't own these books?  Every active ham should, especially if you're 
working 160M.

73, Jim K9YC

From art at nk8x.net  Wed Dec 30 14:06:26 2015
From: art at nk8x.net (Art Snapper)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2015 14:06:26 -0500
Subject: Topband: vbog?
Message-ID: <CAH6JzymH46xEF9HSMxiAmBe=u516cSLus89CDij+sg89ZPAfQQ@mail.gmail.com>

Has anyone tried a v-beam configuration on the ground, similar to a bog?
Obviously, it would be longer. The intent would be to increase RDF.

Or would that be a waste of time?

Art NK8X
?

From k2owr at comcast.net  Wed Dec 30 14:06:45 2015
From: k2owr at comcast.net (K4OWR)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2015 14:06:45 -0500
Subject: Topband: Commercial 160 antennas?
In-Reply-To: <CAKF9HhY=L6M3rYmOyx-fePp_Jnt2KfCn_3YnvC2w6a15y_nnwg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <56841AB7.3040302@comcast.net>
	<CAKF9HhaG8T9GRAWhMbxF4ssN0=1msGTVz0XgXomSESLTkFp97g@mail.gmail.com>
	<56842085.90809@comcast.net>
	<CAKF9HhY=L6M3rYmOyx-fePp_Jnt2KfCn_3YnvC2w6a15y_nnwg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56842B45.60805@comcast.net>

*:::: Understand that even for the top set of guys they are not 
insulated till 17' from the tower. Insulating the others will not be all 
that easy for this once very agile 72 yo who put the tower up all by 
myself 7 years ago. Maybe change to Phillystran? I will also need more 
specific instructions on the hookup....Don't I need something called an 
"Unun" balun?**
**The radials will also be tough cause the tower is on the edge of some 
very overgrown property that would be a nightmare to move around in. **
BILL K4OWR
*
On 12/30/2015 1:34 PM, Tree wrote:
> Well - this sounds almost identical to the tower I used for 1/2 of my 
> phased array - I think it will work well for 160.
>
> You will need to isolate the lower guys with insulators - but that 
> should be pretty easy to do.
>
> Remove the 160 meter dipole.
>
> Use a gamma match and put down some radials.
>
> It will work very well.
>
> Tree
>
> On Wed, Dec 30, 2015 at 10:20 AM, K4OWR <k2owr at comcast.net 
> <mailto:k2owr at comcast.net>> wrote:
>
>     *:::: The tower is guyed 3 ways, 3 times, with only the top set of
>     guys broken up by insulators.
>     On top of the 16' mast poking out of the top is a 6 meter 7el 32'
>     boom; then at the bottom of the mast is a 4 el trapped tribander.
>     One end of a 160 full size dipole is anchored at the 85' level,
>     but could be moved to the top of any one of several very high trees.
>     I always figured the 12 guys prohibited any shunt feed arrangement(?)
>     BILL
>     *
>     On 12/30/2015 1:01 PM, Tree wrote:
>>     Bill - your tower sounds like a good candidate.
>>
>>     What is on top of it?  Any wires hanging off of it?  Are the guys
>>     insulated near where they attach to the tower?  Do the feedlines
>>     come all the way to the ground?
>>
>>     Tree N6TR
>>
>>     On Wed, Dec 30, 2015 at 9:56 AM, K4OWR <k2owr at comcast.net
>>     <mailto:k2owr at comcast.net>> wrote:
>>
>>         :::: Anyone have actual experience with any of the
>>         commercially available 160 antennas...such as:
>>
>>         http://www.dxengineering.com/parts/dxe-160va-1?seid=dxese1&gclid=Cj0KEQiAno60BRDt89rAh7qt-4wBEiQASes2tUOULTlQpNyMARBk4ZWRxw70jODW_FJCuBJ1Td47YMgaAhgQ8P8HAQ
>>
>>         http://www.dxengineering.com/parts/csh-ma160v?seid=dxese1&gclid=Cj0KEQiAno60BRDt89rAh7qt-4wBEiQASes2te6Z2l2AXZmKP8i8l_iGeMKA7d7_B5IymHIulbh6Z_MaAlrL8P8HAQ
>>
>>         OR, what is recommended for a /*reasonable*/ sized vertical
>>         (not a 43' type with matching coil) or requiring a tuner to
>>         match?
>>         Or, a /*simple*/ method of loading my guyed 90' existing tower.
>>         I have lots of room for almost anything.
>>         Tuners on 160, with a LOT of power, always eventually blow up
>>         or catch fire.
>>
>>         BILL K4OWR
>>         _________________
>>         Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>
>>
>
>


From tree at kkn.net  Wed Dec 30 15:36:51 2015
From: tree at kkn.net (Tree)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2015 12:36:51 -0800
Subject: Topband: Stew Perry Preliminary Results
Message-ID: <CAKF9HhYppu+FrwjEY3sxECzSCmaB6229xOLjSaQTg_E0OMac1w@mail.gmail.com>

We have received enough logs now that the preliminary results can be
posted.  You can check out to see how many QRP and LP stations you are
getting bonus points for and see how your checked score stacks up against
the competition.

http://www.kkn.net/stew

If you haven't sent in your log yet (this means you Eric) - send it to
tbdc at kkn.net.

Note that the dates for the 2016 events have been decided and posted.
There might even be a surprise for those of you who can't get enough Stew.

73 Tree N6TR

From mikewate at gmail.com  Wed Dec 30 17:09:37 2015
From: mikewate at gmail.com (Mike Waters)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2015 16:09:37 -0600
Subject: Topband: Stew Perry Preliminary Results
In-Reply-To: <CAKF9HhYppu+FrwjEY3sxECzSCmaB6229xOLjSaQTg_E0OMac1w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKF9HhYppu+FrwjEY3sxECzSCmaB6229xOLjSaQTg_E0OMac1w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+FxYXg=J2A5F4zTLQFmX_N9B-VLTGbSGMYkXXVekCNKWCeweA@mail.gmail.com>

"Spring Stew ? March 14/15 ? You saw it here first!!"

GREAT! :-)

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com

On Wed, Dec 30, 2015 at 2:36 PM, Tree <tree at kkn.net> wrote:

> http://www.kkn.net/stew ... Note that the dates for the 2016 events have
> been decided and posted. There might even be a surprise for those of you
> who can't get enough Stew.
>

From w6jk at sbcglobal.net  Wed Dec 30 17:15:44 2015
From: w6jk at sbcglobal.net (Jeff Kincaid)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2015 22:15:44 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Topband: Stew Perry Preliminary Results
In-Reply-To: <CA+FxYXg=J2A5F4zTLQFmX_N9B-VLTGbSGMYkXXVekCNKWCeweA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+FxYXg=J2A5F4zTLQFmX_N9B-VLTGbSGMYkXXVekCNKWCeweA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1835478143.5018420.1451513744538.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

Beware the Ides of March!
Jeff W6JK 

    On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 2:12 PM, Mike Waters <mikewate at gmail.com> wrote:
 

 "Spring Stew ? March 14/15 ? You saw it here first!!"

GREAT! :-)

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com

On Wed, Dec 30, 2015 at 2:36 PM, Tree <tree at kkn.net> wrote:

> http://www.kkn.net/stew ... Note that the dates for the 2016 events have
> been decided and posted. There might even be a surprise for those of you
> who can't get enough Stew.
>
_________________
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

  

From n8vw at linuxcolumbus.com  Wed Dec 30 17:24:45 2015
From: n8vw at linuxcolumbus.com (Pat N8VW)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2015 17:24:45 -0500
Subject: Topband: =?utf-8?q?Commercial_160_antennas=3F?=
In-Reply-To: <56841AB7.3040302@comcast.net>
References: <56841AB7.3040302@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <35ab9011a9654d07c11f791579c87b19@linuxcolumbus.com>

On 2015-12-30 12:56, K4OWR wrote:

> Tuners on 160, with a LOT of power, always eventually blow up or catch 
> fire.
> 

Interesting comment.  What do you mean when you capitalize the word 
"lot"?


..n8vw

From w8ji at w8ji.com  Wed Dec 30 17:33:32 2015
From: w8ji at w8ji.com (Tom W8JI)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2015 17:33:32 -0500
Subject: Topband: vbog?
References: <CAH6JzymH46xEF9HSMxiAmBe=u516cSLus89CDij+sg89ZPAfQQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <82D491AFC407460CA34DEBEA1D18E913@MAIN>

> Has anyone tried a v-beam configuration on the ground, similar to a bog?
> Obviously, it would be longer. The intent would be to increase RDF.
>
> Or would that be a waste of time?


Waste of time to increase directivity.  Long wires laid on or near the 
ground fire straight down the length of a wire.

V-beams depend on the cone around the wires being overlaid and placed in 
phase at the center, so they depend on height and horizontal polarization. 
They require pretty good height to have worthwhile gain.

Many years ago (in the 70's) I had two reversible Beverages in a 90 degree 
V. I could fire them singly or in various phase combinations. I could skew 
directions or phase and null signals heard by both that way, get but it 
never really increased directivity. It just helped me null LORAN, or pick up 
signals better on a line bisecting the V formed by antennas. 


From wshanney at verizon.net  Wed Dec 30 17:44:06 2015
From: wshanney at verizon.net (William Shanney)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2015 14:44:06 -0800
Subject: Topband: Commercial Antennas
Message-ID: <2389246C-3552-49BA-B1E8-CF8E3C4A6AD2@verizon.net>

My Ten Tec 238B L-Network tuner works well at 1500W. Some tuner networks, especially T-networks, can have very high currents through the shunt inductor.

Bill, W6QR

From bradrehm at gmail.com  Wed Dec 30 17:53:46 2015
From: bradrehm at gmail.com (Brad Rehm)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2015 16:53:46 -0600
Subject: Topband: Commercial 160 antennas?
In-Reply-To: <35ab9011a9654d07c11f791579c87b19@linuxcolumbus.com>
References: <56841AB7.3040302@comcast.net>
	<35ab9011a9654d07c11f791579c87b19@linuxcolumbus.com>
Message-ID: <CABBfdyRqpGnp=O=z+Tp_DC_BBEesBfk06+Us7xzXTiiAEzDejg@mail.gmail.com>

Bill,

When I loaded my 100 ft. stick of 25G, I had broken up the guys with
insulators.  To see what effect connecting the top guys to the tower would
have, I jumpered the first insulators on all three top guys.  Looking at
the feed point impedance at the bottom of the "gamma" rod, I found that
connecting the guys had made no measurable difference.  The guys sloped
downward at slightly less than a 45? angle, and tower "law" says that
they'd have to be nearly horizontal to affect tower resonance.  So I'd say,
load the tower and don't worry about the guys.

Four or eight elevated radials ten feet above the base would be great.  But
if you've installed sub-surface ground rods and dispersion radials at the
base of the tower, it will probably do very well without them.

Another thought...my present 80 ft. stack of 25G supports an inverted-V,
and it does very well for domestic Qs.  With the apex angle I can manage,
the feed impedance is around 25 Ohms, so a 1:2 transmission line
transformer matches it very nicely.

Brad  KV5V

On Wed, Dec 30, 2015 at 4:24 PM, Pat N8VW <n8vw at linuxcolumbus.com> wrote:

> On 2015-12-30 12:56, K4OWR wrote:
>
> Tuners on 160, with a LOT of power, always eventually blow up or catch
>> fire.
>>
>>
> Interesting comment.  What do you mean when you capitalize the word "lot"?
>
>
> ..n8vw
>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>

From wi5a at sbcglobal.net  Wed Dec 30 18:02:14 2015
From: wi5a at sbcglobal.net (Larry Burke)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2015 17:02:14 -0600
Subject: Topband: Stew Beef
Message-ID: <03a801d14356$21e7e8b0$65b7ba10$@sbcglobal.net>

Somebody's got to be the curmudgeon here -- guess I'll volunteer. Not everyone on Topband is excited to see this. 

Let me see if I've got this right. First there was the Stew, then the pre-Stew (a contest to get ready for a contest), next a Summer Stew. Now there's going to be a Spring Stew? Are we eventually going to see a January Stew, February Stew, March Stew....? Maybe a Continuous Stew? So much Stew that Campbell's can't give it away? This, on top of all the other contests on the band? 

Anyone attempting to DX during these periods is SOL what with the clicks, non-stop CQ machines and inconsiderate plopping down on the rare clear spots that any non-contesting DX has managed to find. 

Is a four-times-a year contest with basically the same objectives really necessary?


- Larry K5RK


-----Original Message-----
From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Mike Waters
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2015 4:10 PM
To: Tree
Cc: 160; cq-contest at contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Stew Perry Preliminary Results

"Spring Stew ? March 14/15 ? You saw it here first!!"

GREAT! :-)

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com

On Wed, Dec 30, 2015 at 2:36 PM, Tree <tree at kkn.net> wrote:

> http://www.kkn.net/stew ... Note that the dates for the 2016 events 
> have been decided and posted. There might even be a surprise for those 
> of you who can't get enough Stew.
>
_________________
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


From VE7SL at shaw.ca  Wed Dec 30 18:05:07 2015
From: VE7SL at shaw.ca (Steve)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2015 15:05:07 -0800
Subject: Topband: Stew Beef
In-Reply-To: <03a801d14356$21e7e8b0$65b7ba10$@sbcglobal.net>
References: <03a801d14356$21e7e8b0$65b7ba10$@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <60F295A0389F43B8A5F7B2F24AEE0DC5@StevePC>

I tend to agree Larry - even more Stew is not necessarily a good thing.

Steve



WEB - "The VE7SL Radio Notebook":  http://members.shaw.ca/ve7sl

VE7SL BLOG - "Homebrewing and Operating Adventures From 2200m to Nanowaves": 
http://ve7sl.blogspot.ca/ 


From mark.k3msb at gmail.com  Wed Dec 30 18:25:59 2015
From: mark.k3msb at gmail.com (Mark K3MSB)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2015 18:25:59 -0500
Subject: Topband: 160M EWE Problems
In-Reply-To: <CABdVoaBQkPzQXhBjr-0wztzm3btiGX86m_ST0WSP4xDwfDNFyw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABdVoaBQkPzQXhBjr-0wztzm3btiGX86m_ST0WSP4xDwfDNFyw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABdVoaAhON5iv7xffrD36zL1FhoG97rk-QPCiySKD2FPbbCJRA@mail.gmail.com>

Good Evening

I completely repositioned the EWE today, it's about 70 feet from it's
original position and is not pointing at the INV-L.    It's pointing
towards southern EU.

I Verified the feedline was OK,  verified the transformer was OK etc.

Same results.   When listening to an EU station on the INV-L,  I switch to
the EWE and the signal disappears.

It's just not working guys.   The transformer is pointed NE towards EU,
and the resistor is pointed SW.

I've checked just about everything I know to check, and the EWE just ain't
workin' for me!   Ideas?

73 Mark K3MSB






On Mon, Dec 7, 2015 at 6:39 PM, Mark K3MSB <mark.k3msb at gmail.com> wrote:

> Greetings fellow Top Band enthusiasts!
>
>
> I'm Mark K3MSB, and I live south of York PA.  This is my first time posting
> to this list.
>
>
> I?ve been licensed for 43 years and got on 160M in November 2014, so this
> is the start of my second year.   Why I didn?t get on TB sooner is a
> question I keep asking myself!   I?ve enjoyed the challenge of 80M DXing
> for years, and I find 160M to be an even more challenging band!
>
>
> Last year I used an Inverted-L for TX and RX.  The vertical part was 30
> feet high and I used about a dozen ground radials.   I was very pleased
> with its performance and was delighted to be able to work stations in
> Europe.    This year I changed the Inverted-L;  the vertical section is now
> up 50 feet and I?m using about 16 ground radials.
>
>
> This year I also decided to put up a separate RX antenna.   I put up an EWE
> oriented towards Europe.  Each leg is 10 feet tall, and the length is 50
> feet.    The terminating resistor should be 1.2K, so I used a 2K
> potentiometer set for the correct resistance.   The preamp is the
> P1-30/20VD from Advance Receiver Research.
>
>
> After attempting to use the EWE for a few weeks, I?m convinced the EWE
> doesn?t work.  Obviously, since a lot of people use the EWE,  the antenna
> design must work,  so it?s an installation or usage problem on my end
> that?s the issue.     I hope some of you seasoned 160M men can help me out.
>
>
> I have the terminating end supported by a fiberglass mast about 2 feet from
> the end of my house (vinyl siding).  The transformer end is supported by a
> rope to a tree, and the drop to ground on that end is vertical.    The
> terminating end goes to a 4 foot ground rod.   The transformer end goes to
> a 2 foot ground rod (septic line concerns prevent me from going deeper).
>
>
> When I turn on the preamp, the noise level rises to the same level as that
> heard with my Inverted-L.  Stations in Europe are sometimes at the same
> signal level, but a lot of times much lower, so that I can hear them better
> on the Inverted-L and not on the EWE.   Stations off the back of the EWE
> sometimes are attenuated, but not all the time.
>
>
> I tried adjusting the potentiometer, and that has no effect at all.   I did
> this by running a long patch cable from the headphones jack on the
> transceiver to the area of the terminating resistor.  I tuned in a
> moderately strong station (off the back of the EWE) whose signal level was
> fairly constant, and adjusted the pot while listening to the audio.  No
> change at all.    Granted, the ear is not the best way to do this.
>
>
> I have a noise issue here, and I think it?s man-made, but from reports of
> 160M hams in the area, I?m not sure it?s local.   The bandscope on the
> radio shows a ragged saw tooth waveform .  When I switch from the
> Inverted-L to the EWE, the ragged waveform goes away, but I do not see a
> decrease in background noise as I expected.
>
>
> My expectation of the EWE is that both signal and noise would go down
> (relative to the Inverted-L), but the preamp would boost the signal higher
> relative to the noise (although the signal level itself on the EWE would be
> less than the Inverted-L).   As mentioned above, the noise level is
> unchanged, and the signal is much more difficult to copy with the EWE.
>
>
> It was suggested that I connect the two ground rods with a wire.  I did
> this and it had no effect.
>
>
> So, I?m open to any and all suggestions.
>
>
> 73 Mark K3MSB
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

From keepwalking188 at ac0c.com  Wed Dec 30 18:31:23 2015
From: keepwalking188 at ac0c.com (Jeff AC0C)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2015 17:31:23 -0600
Subject: Topband: Stew Beef
In-Reply-To: <60F295A0389F43B8A5F7B2F24AEE0DC5@StevePC>
References: <03a801d14356$21e7e8b0$65b7ba10$@sbcglobal.net>
	<60F295A0389F43B8A5F7B2F24AEE0DC5@StevePC>
Message-ID: <D8084D77748F4CBAA7B11931099D7810@w520>

Fortunately participation is not mandatory for those who have had enough. 
Given the winter stew was a thunderstorm extravaganza for most of the 
midwest, another shot at it prior to spring would be attractive for many.

April may be a bit late to have good low noise conditions.

73/jeff/ac0c
www.ac0c.com
alpha-charlie-zero-charlie

-----Original Message----- 
From: Steve
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2015 5:05 PM
To: topband at contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Stew Beef

I tend to agree Larry - even more Stew is not necessarily a good thing.

Steve



WEB - "The VE7SL Radio Notebook":  http://members.shaw.ca/ve7sl

VE7SL BLOG - "Homebrewing and Operating Adventures From 2200m to Nanowaves":
http://ve7sl.blogspot.ca/

_________________
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband 


From wi5a at sbcglobal.net  Wed Dec 30 18:37:39 2015
From: wi5a at sbcglobal.net (Larry Burke)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2015 17:37:39 -0600
Subject: Topband: Stew Beef
In-Reply-To: <D8084D77748F4CBAA7B11931099D7810@w520>
References: <03a801d14356$21e7e8b0$65b7ba10$@sbcglobal.net>	<60F295A0389F43B8A5F7B2F24AEE0DC5@StevePC>
	<D8084D77748F4CBAA7B11931099D7810@w520>
Message-ID: <03b101d1435b$13045130$390cf390$@sbcglobal.net>

> Fortunately participation is not mandatory for those who have had enough.

Ah, but that's exactly my point. Those with a limited or no interest in this
event DO have to "participate" in it by virtue of the additional weekend of
chaos that it causes. 

- Larry K5RK

-----Original Message-----
From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Jeff AC0C
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2015 5:31 PM
To: Steve; topband at contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Stew Beef

Fortunately participation is not mandatory for those who have had enough. 
Given the winter stew was a thunderstorm extravaganza for most of the
midwest, another shot at it prior to spring would be attractive for many.

April may be a bit late to have good low noise conditions.

73/jeff/ac0c
www.ac0c.com
alpha-charlie-zero-charlie

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2015 5:05 PM
To: topband at contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Stew Beef

I tend to agree Larry - even more Stew is not necessarily a good thing.

Steve



WEB - "The VE7SL Radio Notebook":  http://members.shaw.ca/ve7sl

VE7SL BLOG - "Homebrewing and Operating Adventures From 2200m to Nanowaves":
http://ve7sl.blogspot.ca/

_________________
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband 

_________________
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


From k6uj at pacbell.net  Wed Dec 30 18:40:09 2015
From: k6uj at pacbell.net (Robert Harmon)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2015 15:40:09 -0800
Subject: Topband: Stew Beef
In-Reply-To: <D8084D77748F4CBAA7B11931099D7810@w520>
References: <03a801d14356$21e7e8b0$65b7ba10$@sbcglobal.net>
	<60F295A0389F43B8A5F7B2F24AEE0DC5@StevePC>
	<D8084D77748F4CBAA7B11931099D7810@w520>
Message-ID: <56846B59.8080504@pacbell.net>

I'm a new top band user.  I need all the opportunities I can get, but I 
do understand the issue.
As for me I am not going to "stew" over it.   :-)

73,
Bob
K6UJ





On 12/30/15 3:31 PM, Jeff AC0C wrote:
> Fortunately participation is not mandatory for those who have had 
> enough. Given the winter stew was a thunderstorm extravaganza for most 
> of the midwest, another shot at it prior to spring would be attractive 
> for many.
>
> April may be a bit late to have good low noise conditions.
>
> 73/jeff/ac0c
> www.ac0c.com
> alpha-charlie-zero-charlie
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Steve
> Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2015 5:05 PM
> To: topband at contesting.com
> Subject: Re: Topband: Stew Beef
>
> I tend to agree Larry - even more Stew is not necessarily a good thing.
>
> Steve
>
>
>
> WEB - "The VE7SL Radio Notebook":  http://members.shaw.ca/ve7sl
>
> VE7SL BLOG - "Homebrewing and Operating Adventures From 2200m to 
> Nanowaves":
> http://ve7sl.blogspot.ca/
>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>


From w6jk at sbcglobal.net  Wed Dec 30 18:41:05 2015
From: w6jk at sbcglobal.net (Jeff Kincaid)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2015 23:41:05 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Topband: Commercial 160 antennas?
In-Reply-To: <35ab9011a9654d07c11f791579c87b19@linuxcolumbus.com>
References: <35ab9011a9654d07c11f791579c87b19@linuxcolumbus.com>
Message-ID: <480085895.4922483.1451518865480.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

A few hundred Watts might do it.? Short antenna, low feed point impedance, inefficient tuner settings, and suddenly the tuner is dissipating a lot of the RF that was meant to pass through.? :(
'JK
 

    On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 2:25 PM, Pat N8VW <n8vw at linuxcolumbus.com> wrote:
 

 On 2015-12-30 12:56, K4OWR wrote:

> Tuners on 160, with a LOT of power, always eventually blow up or catch 
> fire.
> 

Interesting comment.? What do you mean when you capitalize the word 
"lot"?


..n8vw
_________________
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


  

From wrcromwell at gmail.com  Wed Dec 30 18:47:13 2015
From: wrcromwell at gmail.com (Bill Cromwell)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2015 18:47:13 -0500
Subject: Topband: Stew Beef
In-Reply-To: <60F295A0389F43B8A5F7B2F24AEE0DC5@StevePC>
References: <03a801d14356$21e7e8b0$65b7ba10$@sbcglobal.net>
	<60F295A0389F43B8A5F7B2F24AEE0DC5@StevePC>
Message-ID: <56846D01.7070902@gmail.com>

I was hoping for a weekly Stew.

Think about that and maybe you'll feel better about a seasoned stew.

73,

Bill  KU8H



On 12/30/2015 06:05 PM, Steve wrote:
> I tend to agree Larry - even more Stew is not necessarily a good thing.
>
> Steve
>
>
>
> WEB - "The VE7SL Radio Notebook":  http://members.shaw.ca/ve7sl
>
> VE7SL BLOG - "Homebrewing and Operating Adventures From 2200m to 
> Nanowaves": http://ve7sl.blogspot.ca/
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>


From art at nk8x.net  Wed Dec 30 18:48:36 2015
From: art at nk8x.net (Art Snapper)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2015 18:48:36 -0500
Subject: Topband: Stew Beef
In-Reply-To: <56846D01.7070902@gmail.com>
References: <03a801d14356$21e7e8b0$65b7ba10$@sbcglobal.net>
	<60F295A0389F43B8A5F7B2F24AEE0DC5@StevePC> <56846D01.7070902@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAH6JzynajqO-VuMYO1yu0X9gkizUQ7RddFTbVDWSEifd84wOBw@mail.gmail.com>

WWSD?
?

On Wed, Dec 30, 2015 at 6:47 PM, Bill Cromwell <wrcromwell at gmail.com> wrote:

> I was hoping for a weekly Stew.
>
> Think about that and maybe you'll feel better about a seasoned stew.
>
> 73,
>
> Bill  KU8H
>
>
>
>
> On 12/30/2015 06:05 PM, Steve wrote:
>
>> I tend to agree Larry - even more Stew is not necessarily a good thing.
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>>
>> WEB - "The VE7SL Radio Notebook":  http://members.shaw.ca/ve7sl
>>
>> VE7SL BLOG - "Homebrewing and Operating Adventures From 2200m to
>> Nanowaves": http://ve7sl.blogspot.ca/
>> _________________
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>
>>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>

From k2av.guy at gmail.com  Wed Dec 30 19:37:02 2015
From: k2av.guy at gmail.com (Guy Olinger K2AV)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2015 19:37:02 -0500
Subject: Topband: Stew Perry Preliminary Results
In-Reply-To: <1835478143.5018420.1451513744538.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <CA+FxYXg=J2A5F4zTLQFmX_N9B-VLTGbSGMYkXXVekCNKWCeweA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1835478143.5018420.1451513744538.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CANckpc1Xsr+6u1SuuFCswW9yad6qCA5AN_A0uBN3CL+13OrhXw@mail.gmail.com>

Spring Stew Perry. That's neat.

Should really just be called the Spring, Summer, Fall, and Winter Stew
Perry. None of them a "test" version. All of them one gets in there and
does it as a regular contest, with to-date stats leading up to the winter
as the final entry in an ANNUAL score. Each contest would have its own
scores, and at the end of the year, add those up for the ANNUAL score. That
will get the participation up in parts of the year that get ignored on 160.

What you do about awards? Maybe composite awards for the calendar year,
with to-date stats leading up to the winter as the final entry in an ANNUAL
score.

SPTBC is a contest I can do four times a year. People will get used to a
four-times-a-year Stew Perry.  The original Stew is the final for the
annual score.

If one got flummoxed by a 160 equipment or antenna problem, you don't have
to wait until the next year to try again. For the annual score, you can try
and make it up.

A 160 SBSO entry in the ARRL DX or CQWW DX just does not have the same
participation as a 160 only contest.

73, Guy K2AV

On Wed, Dec 30, 2015 at 5:15 PM, Jeff Kincaid <w6jk at sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> Beware the Ides of March!
> Jeff W6JK
>
>     On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 2:12 PM, Mike Waters <
> mikewate at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>  "Spring Stew ? March 14/15 ? You saw it here first!!"
>
> GREAT! :-)
>
> 73, Mike
> www.w0btu.com
>
> On Wed, Dec 30, 2015 at 2:36 PM, Tree <tree at kkn.net> wrote:
>
> > http://www.kkn.net/stew ... Note that the dates for the 2016 events have
> > been decided and posted. There might even be a surprise for those of you
> > who can't get enough Stew.
> >
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>

From wa5rtg at gmail.com  Wed Dec 30 19:39:23 2015
From: wa5rtg at gmail.com (Stan Stockton)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2015 18:39:23 -0600
Subject: Topband: Commercial 160 antennas?
In-Reply-To: <56842B45.60805@comcast.net>
References: <56841AB7.3040302@comcast.net>
	<CAKF9HhaG8T9GRAWhMbxF4ssN0=1msGTVz0XgXomSESLTkFp97g@mail.gmail.com>
	<56842085.90809@comcast.net>
	<CAKF9HhY=L6M3rYmOyx-fePp_Jnt2KfCn_3YnvC2w6a15y_nnwg@mail.gmail.com>
	<56842B45.60805@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <CACdYvGH1SYZfmd5HAwk+C6g2QMAfeheuKWeAvRst2mWGS+5aGQ@mail.gmail.com>

Bill,

You are going to like what you end up with even on some of the other
bands.  I would think that three 17 foot long guy wires attached to the
tower would have a bad influence on the tribander. In fact that's a very
bad length attached to the tower and under a 20m antenna.

You are not going to need anything other than a box to weatherproof an air
variable capacitor (use a vacuum variable if you have one already), some
wire, a few pieces of PVC and a hose clamp to make it all work.  That's
all.  Having those 17 foot guy wires attached to the tower isn't going to
hurt you or help you on 160m, but as I said, I think they are hurting you
on some of the other bands.  I would replace the guy wire with Phillystran
if it were mine.

73...Stan, K5GO

On Wed, Dec 30, 2015 at 1:06 PM, K4OWR <k2owr at comcast.net> wrote:

> *:::: Understand that even for the top set of guys they are not insulated
> till 17' from the tower. Insulating the others will not be all that easy
> for this once very agile 72 yo who put the tower up all by myself 7 years
> ago. Maybe change to Phillystran? I will also need more specific
> instructions on the hookup....Don't I need something called an "Unun"
> balun?**
> **The radials will also be tough cause the tower is on the edge of some
> very overgrown property that would be a nightmare to move around in. **
> BILL K4OWR
> *
> On 12/30/2015 1:34 PM, Tree wrote:
>
>> Well - this sounds almost identical to the tower I used for 1/2 of my
>> phased array - I think it will work well for 160.
>>
>> You will need to isolate the lower guys with insulators - but that should
>> be pretty easy to do.
>>
>> Remove the 160 meter dipole.
>>
>> Use a gamma match and put down some radials.
>>
>> It will work very well.
>>
>> Tree
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 30, 2015 at 10:20 AM, K4OWR <k2owr at comcast.net <mailto:
>> k2owr at comcast.net>> wrote:
>>
>>     *:::: The tower is guyed 3 ways, 3 times, with only the top set of
>>     guys broken up by insulators.
>>     On top of the 16' mast poking out of the top is a 6 meter 7el 32'
>>     boom; then at the bottom of the mast is a 4 el trapped tribander.
>>     One end of a 160 full size dipole is anchored at the 85' level,
>>     but could be moved to the top of any one of several very high trees.
>>     I always figured the 12 guys prohibited any shunt feed arrangement(?)
>>     BILL
>>     *
>>     On 12/30/2015 1:01 PM, Tree wrote:
>>
>>>     Bill - your tower sounds like a good candidate.
>>>
>>>     What is on top of it?  Any wires hanging off of it?  Are the guys
>>>     insulated near where they attach to the tower?  Do the feedlines
>>>     come all the way to the ground?
>>>
>>>     Tree N6TR
>>>
>>>     On Wed, Dec 30, 2015 at 9:56 AM, K4OWR <k2owr at comcast.net
>>>
>>>     <mailto:k2owr at comcast.net>> wrote:
>>>
>>>         :::: Anyone have actual experience with any of the
>>>         commercially available 160 antennas...such as:
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.dxengineering.com/parts/dxe-160va-1?seid=dxese1&gclid=Cj0KEQiAno60BRDt89rAh7qt-4wBEiQASes2tUOULTlQpNyMARBk4ZWRxw70jODW_FJCuBJ1Td47YMgaAhgQ8P8HAQ
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.dxengineering.com/parts/csh-ma160v?seid=dxese1&gclid=Cj0KEQiAno60BRDt89rAh7qt-4wBEiQASes2te6Z2l2AXZmKP8i8l_iGeMKA7d7_B5IymHIulbh6Z_MaAlrL8P8HAQ
>>>
>>>         OR, what is recommended for a /*reasonable*/ sized vertical
>>>         (not a 43' type with matching coil) or requiring a tuner to
>>>         match?
>>>         Or, a /*simple*/ method of loading my guyed 90' existing tower.
>>>         I have lots of room for almost anything.
>>>         Tuners on 160, with a LOT of power, always eventually blow up
>>>         or catch fire.
>>>
>>>         BILL K4OWR
>>>         _________________
>>>         Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>

From richard at karlquist.com  Wed Dec 30 19:45:31 2015
From: richard at karlquist.com (Richard (Rick) Karlquist)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2015 16:45:31 -0800
Subject: Topband: Stew Perry Preliminary Results
In-Reply-To: <CANckpc1Xsr+6u1SuuFCswW9yad6qCA5AN_A0uBN3CL+13OrhXw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+FxYXg=J2A5F4zTLQFmX_N9B-VLTGbSGMYkXXVekCNKWCeweA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1835478143.5018420.1451513744538.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
	<CANckpc1Xsr+6u1SuuFCswW9yad6qCA5AN_A0uBN3CL+13OrhXw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56847AAB.5000608@karlquist.com>



On 12/30/2015 4:37 PM, Guy Olinger K2AV wrote:
> Spring Stew Perry. That's neat.
>
> Should really just be called the Spring, Summer, Fall, and Winter Stew
> Perry. None of them a "test" version. All of them one gets in there and

Remember the seasons are reversed in the Southern Hemisphere.  We
are already having a tough time getting participation from "down
under".  Maybe a more inclusive naming convention would make
sense.

Rick N6RK

From w8ji at w8ji.com  Wed Dec 30 20:30:30 2015
From: w8ji at w8ji.com (Tom W8JI)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2015 20:30:30 -0500
Subject: Topband: Commercial Antennas
References: <2389246C-3552-49BA-B1E8-CF8E3C4A6AD2@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <A99291AA7A8849AB8C28E7B7239ED159@MAIN>

> My Ten Tec 238B L-Network tuner works well at 1500W. Some tuner networks, 
> especially T-networks, can have very high currents through the shunt 
> inductor.
>

The largest issue with T tuners is capacitor value. Most tuners use generic 
230-270 pF maximum capacitance caps, and that makes the network Q way too 
high on 160 into low Z loads.

The ATR30 has around 500 pF, and that makes quite a difference. It will 
handle well over 1500 watts on 160 without issues, and several kW on 80 into 
reasonable impedances. It has a lot of headroom for weird load impedances at 
1500W.

All that aside, I don't know why people would want to use a tuner to match a 
real low impedance anyway. Other than some tweaking to extend useable 
frequency range, the matching is really best handled at the antenna with the 
tuner just extending BW a bit. 


From k2av.guy at gmail.com  Wed Dec 30 21:44:38 2015
From: k2av.guy at gmail.com (Guy Olinger K2AV)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2015 21:44:38 -0500
Subject: Topband: Stew Perry Preliminary Results
In-Reply-To: <56847AAB.5000608@karlquist.com>
References: <CA+FxYXg=J2A5F4zTLQFmX_N9B-VLTGbSGMYkXXVekCNKWCeweA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1835478143.5018420.1451513744538.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
	<CANckpc1Xsr+6u1SuuFCswW9yad6qCA5AN_A0uBN3CL+13OrhXw@mail.gmail.com>
	<56847AAB.5000608@karlquist.com>
Message-ID: <CANckpc3RRDDpge54P9YD82-JNden5UbUrjeWZxfsnBhPo+v-0w@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Dec 30, 2015 at 7:45 PM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist <
richard at karlquist.com> wrote:

> Remember the seasons are reversed in the Southern Hemisphere.  We
> are already having a tough time getting participation from "down
> under".  Maybe a more inclusive naming convention would make
> sense.
>
> Rick N6RK
>

OK, I understand that, but I didn't pick the name.

I think the participation from down under has more to do with the
propagation and noise issues from the seasonal reversal, plus the time
difference issued like how propagation mostly only opens up path to US at
our sunrise.

First, second, third and final.

March, June, October, December.

Freshman, sophomore, junior, senior.

Aries, Cancer, Scorpio, Capricorn

Spring, Summer, Fall, Winter

My essential points were that none of them should be a "run-up" or
rehearsal, and that there ALSO should be an annual score listing, which
people could sign up to plaque as well.

Of all the things that might improve down under participation is having
more people on for the June Stew, where everyone has an opportunity to run
up points that go together with the December Stew for an annual score.

73, Guy

From sawyered at earthlink.net  Thu Dec 31 07:43:25 2015
From: sawyered at earthlink.net (Ed Sawyer)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2015 07:43:25 -0500
Subject: Topband: Commercial 160 antennas?
Message-ID: <001901d143c8$d85d04f0$89170ed0$@earthlink.net>

Bill, Given the info that you have provided, it sounds like you don?t have
?lots of room for almost anything? if the room needed is radial field in
certain directions from the tower.  And re guying the tower is out as well.

 

My suggestion for a simple job, is to have someone climb the tower and put a
pulley and rope at the top.  An inverted vee with a peak at 90 ft and the
end of the antenna legs at least 50 ft off the ground will do a reasonable
job for you.

 

Alternatively, an inverted L, with 4 elevated radials ? at least 10 ft off
the ground ? 15 ft is better ? will do pretty well with the kink of the L at
90 feet.  

 

I would align the elevated radials so that only one is needed in the
difficult overbrush.  Then I would measure out 125 ft of 16 AWG insulated
wire, and launch the radial out of the ?pricker brush? with a slingshot.

 

Ed  N1UR

 

I have 2 T top verticals with tops at 80 ft and 45 ? wave radials under each
end fire into EU and switched OMNI for everybody else.  Takes up a lot of
real estate but works FB.


From tshoppa at gmail.com  Thu Dec 31 10:11:32 2015
From: tshoppa at gmail.com (Tim Shoppa)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2015 10:11:32 -0500
Subject: Topband: Huge NA-EU opening last night
Message-ID: <CAJ_qRvbh3NG0oit930dO3p9zrAm4rcgsrUg4-05RM6OfP=NYwA@mail.gmail.com>

There was a huge NA-EU 160M opening last night and I was surprised to work
50 Europeans on one night, outside a contest. I'm sure that 160M veterans
can tell me of working 1000 on a good night, but this was great for me. I'm
surprised there were that many Europeans awake before their dawn! Including
Russians and Ukranians too.

It was a little different than the "Belgium-specific" opening I found a few
months ago, this one seems to have been all across Europe. There was a good
hour when the DL's, ON's, OK's were loud like regional stations on 80M and
there were a couple loud Ukranians too.

Reversebeacon screenshot:  http://www.trailing-edge.com/DEC31-opening.png

Tim N3QE

From art at nk8x.net  Thu Dec 31 10:15:19 2015
From: art at nk8x.net (Art Snapper)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2015 10:15:19 -0500
Subject: Topband: Huge NA-EU opening last night
In-Reply-To: <CAJ_qRvbh3NG0oit930dO3p9zrAm4rcgsrUg4-05RM6OfP=NYwA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJ_qRvbh3NG0oit930dO3p9zrAm4rcgsrUg4-05RM6OfP=NYwA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAH6Jzykp29Tug5Tt=xHhia8D=0oX=01-F1w7rOm1x0OfwnxFqg@mail.gmail.com>

It was nice. There was a bit of flutter on the more northerly stations.
Perhaps it is related to the recent solar storm.

73
Art NK8X
?

On Thu, Dec 31, 2015 at 10:11 AM, Tim Shoppa <tshoppa at gmail.com> wrote:

> There was a huge NA-EU 160M opening last night and I was surprised to work
> 50 Europeans on one night, outside a contest. I'm sure that 160M veterans
> can tell me of working 1000 on a good night, but this was great for me. I'm
> surprised there were that many Europeans awake before their dawn! Including
> Russians and Ukranians too.
>
> It was a little different than the "Belgium-specific" opening I found a few
> months ago, this one seems to have been all across Europe. There was a good
> hour when the DL's, ON's, OK's were loud like regional stations on 80M and
> there were a couple loud Ukranians too.
>
> Reversebeacon screenshot:  http://www.trailing-edge.com/DEC31-opening.png
>
> Tim N3QE
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>

From mark.k3msb at gmail.com  Thu Dec 31 10:21:00 2015
From: mark.k3msb at gmail.com (Mark K3MSB)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2015 10:21:00 -0500
Subject: Topband: Huge NA-EU opening last night
In-Reply-To: <CAJ_qRvbh3NG0oit930dO3p9zrAm4rcgsrUg4-05RM6OfP=NYwA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJ_qRvbh3NG0oit930dO3p9zrAm4rcgsrUg4-05RM6OfP=NYwA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABdVoaAx__+us70Dck672fBwE41MuX_xJn7hfS8k3W1Nkmkzgw@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Tim

I am a  "Johnny Novice" on Top Band;  my best was 25 EU DX contacts the
night before last night.   That was the first time I was able to call CQ
and have EU stations answer me!   Last night I worked a few EU, but was
playing with my EWE antenna.

TB is indeed fun, and very challenging (at least for me!)

73 Mark K3MSB

On Thu, Dec 31, 2015 at 10:11 AM, Tim Shoppa <tshoppa at gmail.com> wrote:

> There was a huge NA-EU 160M opening last night and I was surprised to work
> 50 Europeans on one night, outside a contest. I'm sure that 160M veterans
> can tell me of working 1000 on a good night, but this was great for me. I'm
> surprised there were that many Europeans awake before their dawn! Including
> Russians and Ukranians too.
>
> It was a little different than the "Belgium-specific" opening I found a few
> months ago, this one seems to have been all across Europe. There was a good
> hour when the DL's, ON's, OK's were loud like regional stations on 80M and
> there were a couple loud Ukranians too.
>
> Reversebeacon screenshot:  http://www.trailing-edge.com/DEC31-opening.png
>
> Tim N3QE
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>

From mark.k3msb at gmail.com  Thu Dec 31 10:32:03 2015
From: mark.k3msb at gmail.com (Mark K3MSB)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2015 10:32:03 -0500
Subject: Topband: 160M EWE Problems Part 2
Message-ID: <CABdVoaARgAEKYAJ+DGFwmG+iKYRzcYTVM0JE5Mx_06Ofpge36g@mail.gmail.com>

Good Morning!


Last night was the second night in a row with nice conditions between the
east coast and Europe on 160M.    I took the time to get a cup of coffee
and spend a few hours comparing the Inverted-L and EWE, and recording my
observations.


All Inverted-L data was recorded with the Icom on-board preamps OFF.


All EWE data was recorded with the 20 dB external preamp ON.


The external preamp is an Advanced Research Receiver P1-30/20VD


The EWE is pointed roughly 40 degrees, and the grounds are not connected
via wire.  That means the transformer end is towards Europe, and the
resistor end is towards California -- some of you asked for clarification.


General Noise Floor:

INV-L: S2-S3 spikes above S5

EWE:   S4 steady, no spikes   (Higher than the INV-L !!!!!)



Forward reception:

In the following table,  (S1, S2) means S1 on the INV-L,  S2 on the EWE.

SP5GRM   (S7, S7)

OK2RJC   (S9 , S6)

RA2FV    (S6, S4)

RN3CT    (S7,  S4)

EU3AR    (S5, Below noise level)

UT7NY    (S5,  S4)

EI4KF    (S5,  S4)

YO9HP    (S5,  S5)

UY0ZG    (S5,  S4)


Those stations that were S4 on the EWE were pretty much riding the noise
level and I could hear them, but they were much stronger (and easily
copied) on the INV-L!


Conclusions (perhaps incorrect?..)

A) The noise floor of the EWE can be higher than that of the INV-L.

B) The EWE is NOT suitable for weak signal reception


If A and B above are correct, what?s the point of using an EWE?


I state my conclusions based upon my observations, knowing full well a lot
of you successfully use the EWE antenna,  so I still need to learn more, do
more tweaking, etc.



Back Rejection:   I recorded some stations that should have been off the
back of the EWE (or thereabouts?..  I didn?t check them on QRZ.com,  but just
assumed 8,9 and 7 land stations were behind me?..)

N8 (S9+10 ,  S7)

N7: (S7,  S4)

N8  (S9+10,  S9+10)

N9  (S9,      S7)

N8 (S9+10,   S8)

N8  (S9+20,   S9)


So, I am seeing rejection off the back of the EWE.   It doesn?t happen all
the time, but as I said I didn?t do a search to see where each station was
actually located.


Some of you asked how I know my cable and transformer are good.  I attached
the feedline to the transformer,  then used a resistance substitution box
to put a load on the other end of the transformer.   A 470 ohms resistance
provided an SWR of 1.1.  As I moved the resistance above and below 470,
the SWR moved as expected.   Since the transformer is 9:1,  I felt this
showed the coax and transformer were OKI.


Comments welcome.


73 Mark K3MSB

From art at nk8x.net  Thu Dec 31 10:53:53 2015
From: art at nk8x.net (Art Snapper)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2015 10:53:53 -0500
Subject: Topband: 160M EWE Problems Part 2
In-Reply-To: <CABdVoaARgAEKYAJ+DGFwmG+iKYRzcYTVM0JE5Mx_06Ofpge36g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABdVoaARgAEKYAJ+DGFwmG+iKYRzcYTVM0JE5Mx_06Ofpge36g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAH6JzymuC8N_CvseXbS9NKUgOi5JSbcV7F28G4-KCVCmLcZ_Cg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Mark,

I would be curious if you are getting a significant S-Meter reading using
the external preamp and testing with the antenna disconnected from the
cable?

If so, my guess would be that the Ewe pattern is terribly distorted by its
surroundings, noise is coupling in from other sources - or the noise figure
on the external preamp is too high.

73
Art NK8X
?

On Thu, Dec 31, 2015 at 10:32 AM, Mark K3MSB <mark.k3msb at gmail.com> wrote:

> Good Morning!
>
>
> Last night was the second night in a row with nice conditions between the
> east coast and Europe on 160M.    I took the time to get a cup of coffee
> and spend a few hours comparing the Inverted-L and EWE, and recording my
> observations.
>
>
> All Inverted-L data was recorded with the Icom on-board preamps OFF.
>
>
> All EWE data was recorded with the 20 dB external preamp ON.
>
>
> The external preamp is an Advanced Research Receiver P1-30/20VD
>
>
> The EWE is pointed roughly 40 degrees, and the grounds are not connected
> via wire.  That means the transformer end is towards Europe, and the
> resistor end is towards California -- some of you asked for clarification.
>
>
> General Noise Floor:
>
> INV-L: S2-S3 spikes above S5
>
> EWE:   S4 steady, no spikes   (Higher than the INV-L !!!!!)
>
>
>
> Forward reception:
>
> In the following table,  (S1, S2) means S1 on the INV-L,  S2 on the EWE.
>
> SP5GRM   (S7, S7)
>
> OK2RJC   (S9 , S6)
>
> RA2FV    (S6, S4)
>
> RN3CT    (S7,  S4)
>
> EU3AR    (S5, Below noise level)
>
> UT7NY    (S5,  S4)
>
> EI4KF    (S5,  S4)
>
> YO9HP    (S5,  S5)
>
> UY0ZG    (S5,  S4)
>
>
> Those stations that were S4 on the EWE were pretty much riding the noise
> level and I could hear them, but they were much stronger (and easily
> copied) on the INV-L!
>
>
> Conclusions (perhaps incorrect?..)
>
> A) The noise floor of the EWE can be higher than that of the INV-L.
>
> B) The EWE is NOT suitable for weak signal reception
>
>
> If A and B above are correct, what?s the point of using an EWE?
>
>
> I state my conclusions based upon my observations, knowing full well a lot
> of you successfully use the EWE antenna,  so I still need to learn more, do
> more tweaking, etc.
>
>
>
> Back Rejection:   I recorded some stations that should have been off the
> back of the EWE (or thereabouts?..  I didn?t check them on QRZ.com,  but
> just
> assumed 8,9 and 7 land stations were behind me?..)
>
> N8 (S9+10 ,  S7)
>
> N7: (S7,  S4)
>
> N8  (S9+10,  S9+10)
>
> N9  (S9,      S7)
>
> N8 (S9+10,   S8)
>
> N8  (S9+20,   S9)
>
>
> So, I am seeing rejection off the back of the EWE.   It doesn?t happen all
> the time, but as I said I didn?t do a search to see where each station was
> actually located.
>
>
> Some of you asked how I know my cable and transformer are good.  I attached
> the feedline to the transformer,  then used a resistance substitution box
> to put a load on the other end of the transformer.   A 470 ohms resistance
> provided an SWR of 1.1.  As I moved the resistance above and below 470,
> the SWR moved as expected.   Since the transformer is 9:1,  I felt this
> showed the coax and transformer were OKI.
>
>
> Comments welcome.
>
>
> 73 Mark K3MSB
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

From k2owr at comcast.net  Thu Dec 31 11:19:49 2015
From: k2owr at comcast.net (K4OWR)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2015 11:19:49 -0500
Subject: Topband: Huge NA-EU opening last night
In-Reply-To: <CABdVoaAx__+us70Dck672fBwE41MuX_xJn7hfS8k3W1Nkmkzgw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJ_qRvbh3NG0oit930dO3p9zrAm4rcgsrUg4-05RM6OfP=NYwA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABdVoaAx__+us70Dck672fBwE41MuX_xJn7hfS8k3W1Nkmkzgw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <568555A5.1080206@comcast.net>

:::: What time was this opening to EU on 160???
BILL

On 12/31/2015 10:21 AM, Mark K3MSB wrote:
> Hello Tim
>
> I am a  "Johnny Novice" on Top Band;  my best was 25 EU DX contacts the
> night before last night.   That was the first time I was able to call CQ
> and have EU stations answer me!   Last night I worked a few EU, but was
> playing with my EWE antenna.
>
> TB is indeed fun, and very challenging (at least for me!)
>
> 73 Mark K3MSB
>
> On Thu, Dec 31, 2015 at 10:11 AM, Tim Shoppa <tshoppa at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> There was a huge NA-EU 160M opening last night and I was surprised to work
>> 50 Europeans on one night, outside a contest. I'm sure that 160M veterans
>> can tell me of working 1000 on a good night, but this was great for me. I'm
>> surprised there were that many Europeans awake before their dawn! Including
>> Russians and Ukranians too.
>>
>> It was a little different than the "Belgium-specific" opening I found a few
>> months ago, this one seems to have been all across Europe. There was a good
>> hour when the DL's, ON's, OK's were loud like regional stations on 80M and
>> there were a couple loud Ukranians too.
>>
>> Reversebeacon screenshot:  http://www.trailing-edge.com/DEC31-opening.png
>>
>> Tim N3QE
>> _________________
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>


From tshoppa at gmail.com  Thu Dec 31 11:26:18 2015
From: tshoppa at gmail.com (Tim Shoppa)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2015 11:26:18 -0500
Subject: Topband: Huge NA-EU opening last night
In-Reply-To: <568555A5.1080206@comcast.net>
References: <CAJ_qRvbh3NG0oit930dO3p9zrAm4rcgsrUg4-05RM6OfP=NYwA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABdVoaAx__+us70Dck672fBwE41MuX_xJn7hfS8k3W1Nkmkzgw@mail.gmail.com>
	<568555A5.1080206@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <CAJ_qRvYb=EubiaHB9_WbyMU2j7BkGq4d9Bd9h-2Nn7EkZTG82A@mail.gmail.com>

I could hear that conditions were improving on 160M at 0400Z when CWT ended
- my EU rate was great from 0400Z through 0700Z, and the super strong DL
signals were in the 0500Z-0600Z window.

I was very surprised so many Europeans were even awake. There were many
fewer NA'ers CQ'ing, although a good number of NA'ers were doing S&P.

Tim N3QE

On Thu, Dec 31, 2015 at 11:19 AM, K4OWR <k2owr at comcast.net> wrote:

> :::: What time was this opening to EU on 160???
> BILL
>
>
> On 12/31/2015 10:21 AM, Mark K3MSB wrote:
>
>> Hello Tim
>>
>> I am a  "Johnny Novice" on Top Band;  my best was 25 EU DX contacts the
>> night before last night.   That was the first time I was able to call CQ
>> and have EU stations answer me!   Last night I worked a few EU, but was
>> playing with my EWE antenna.
>>
>> TB is indeed fun, and very challenging (at least for me!)
>>
>> 73 Mark K3MSB
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 31, 2015 at 10:11 AM, Tim Shoppa <tshoppa at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> There was a huge NA-EU 160M opening last night and I was surprised to work
>>> 50 Europeans on one night, outside a contest. I'm sure that 160M veterans
>>> can tell me of working 1000 on a good night, but this was great for me.
>>> I'm
>>> surprised there were that many Europeans awake before their dawn!
>>> Including
>>> Russians and Ukranians too.
>>>
>>> It was a little different than the "Belgium-specific" opening I found a
>>> few
>>> months ago, this one seems to have been all across Europe. There was a
>>> good
>>> hour when the DL's, ON's, OK's were loud like regional stations on 80M
>>> and
>>> there were a couple loud Ukranians too.
>>>
>>> Reversebeacon screenshot:
>>> http://www.trailing-edge.com/DEC31-opening.png
>>>
>>> Tim N3QE
>>> _________________
>>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>>
>>> _________________
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>
>>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>

From jim at audiosystemsgroup.com  Thu Dec 31 12:57:43 2015
From: jim at audiosystemsgroup.com (Jim Brown)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2015 09:57:43 -0800
Subject: Topband: Commercial 160 antennas?
In-Reply-To: <001901d143c8$d85d04f0$89170ed0$@earthlink.net>
References: <001901d143c8$d85d04f0$89170ed0$@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <56856C97.4080504@audiosystemsgroup.com>

On Thu,12/31/2015 4:43 AM, Ed Sawyer wrote:
> My suggestion for a simple job, is to have someone climb the tower and put a
> pulley and rope at the top.

Very good idea.

>   An inverted vee with a peak at 90 ft and the
> end of the antenna legs at least 50 ft off the ground will do a reasonable
> job for you.

Only if what you want is a cloud-warmer that works short to medium 
distance.

> Alternatively, an inverted L, with 4 elevated radials ? at least 10 ft off
> the ground ? 15 ft is better ? will do pretty well with the kink of the L at
> 90 feet.

This is a FAR, FAR better idea. Better yet, load the tower, add the radials.

73, Jim K9YC


From wd8dsb at gmail.com  Thu Dec 31 14:33:11 2015
From: wd8dsb at gmail.com (Don Kirk)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2015 14:33:11 -0500
Subject: Topband: 160M EWE Problems Part 2
In-Reply-To: <CABdVoaARgAEKYAJ+DGFwmG+iKYRzcYTVM0JE5Mx_06Ofpge36g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABdVoaARgAEKYAJ+DGFwmG+iKYRzcYTVM0JE5Mx_06Ofpge36g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKtW65eQFhOKnVtTFDw+8iquPVAPkLhp8Eivj3tgDqd7B8sG7w@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Mark,

I modeled your antenna last night, and have some comments.

There is almost as much reactance as resistance at the feedpoint of your
EWE based on your dimensions and termination resistor, but sounds like
that's typical (per the ON4UN low band DXing book).  The back null is also
not as deep compared with Pennants and Flags that I work with.
Nevertheless the RDF value of your design is not much different than the
Pennants and Flags I work with.

I use 3 very small pennants on 160 meters, and their signal to noise ratio
is never worse than my 68 foot base loaded TX vertical (so you have a
reference point regarding what I would expect from your EWE, as Pennants
are considered to be part of the EWE family and they have similar RDF
values).  During every QSO I make on 160 meters (as well as casual
listening) I compare signal to noise performance between my TX vertical and
my pennants, and the pennants have never lost (your situation might be
slightly different due to the horizontal section of your Inv-L, but more
times than not when working DX I would be surprised if a properly working
EWE type RX antenna was not equal or slightly better than your Inv-L).

I wonder why you went with a classical EWE versus a Flag or Pennant  The
Flag and Pennant are ground independent (no connection to ground), which is
a very nice feature and makes them very easy to construct as well as easy
to rotate in the direction you desire.  The Pennant is nice because you can
drop the feedline directly to ground from the feedpoint.  Something else I
like about Pennants or Flags is the fact that their feedpoint impedance is
almost pure resistive when using a termination resistor that provides a
nice pattern (deep null off the back) with peak RDF performance.

I am not suggesting you abandon your classical EWE design, but I did want
to share some off the cuff comments which may or may not help you down the
road.

Here is a test I would recommend (typically I would do this during the
middle of the day when there is no skywave).  Connect a 50 ohm dummy load
to your preamp in place of your EWE and its feedline, and tell us what your
S meter reading is, and then connect your EWE with its feedline to the
preamp and tell us what your S meter reading is.  Hopefully the S meter
reading is much higher with the EWE versus the dummy load.  If you can
repeat this same test but with the dummy load out at the EWE feedpoint
(disconnect the EWE from the end of the feedline and connect the 50 ohm
dummy load in its place), as this might also shed some light regarding your
situation.

I should also mention that I would not expect a Hugh improvement in Signal
to Noise ratio when using a EWE to work DX compared with a Vertical if the
Noise is arriving equally from all directions (versus a point source
noise).  Based on my experience I only achieve 1 or 2 dB of improvement in
Signal to Noise for stations 4000 miles or more away as an example (but
this can often be the difference between a solid QSO and no QSO at all on
160 meters).

I do have Toroid Chokes installed on my pennant feedline (per the K9YC
design) to help with common mode noise, and in my installation I have never
observed common mode noise issues (I have run tests with my HF rig and
pre-amp right at the feedpoint of my pennants and operated them with a
battery to see if the noise level was much less than in the shack, and
thankfully it is not).

As others have said you may be experiencing pattern distortion which I have
not addressed above.  For starters I would float your inverted L at it's
feedpoint to see what happens to your noise level, and I would also connect
it direct to ground at it's feedpoint to see what happens to your noise
level and I would do all of this while also listening to AM radio stations
as high up in the AM broadcast band as possible during the middle of the
day.  I would do this listening to AM radio stations that are at various
headings from your location to see if you can detect pattern distortion on
any of them depending on the configuration of your inverted L (grounded
versus floating).  If the AM radio station signals change when listening on
the EWE when changing the configuration of your inverted L (grounded versus
floating), then this might provide a clue regarding the need to detune the
inverted L when receiving on the EWE, etc.

Just some long winded thoughts from my end.

73, and Happy New Year.
Don (wd8dsb)

On Thu, Dec 31, 2015 at 10:32 AM, Mark K3MSB <mark.k3msb at gmail.com> wrote:

> Good Morning!
>
>
> Last night was the second night in a row with nice conditions between the
> east coast and Europe on 160M.    I took the time to get a cup of coffee
> and spend a few hours comparing the Inverted-L and EWE, and recording my
> observations.
>
>
> All Inverted-L data was recorded with the Icom on-board preamps OFF.
>
>
> All EWE data was recorded with the 20 dB external preamp ON.
>
>
> The external preamp is an Advanced Research Receiver P1-30/20VD
>
>
> The EWE is pointed roughly 40 degrees, and the grounds are not connected
> via wire.  That means the transformer end is towards Europe, and the
> resistor end is towards California -- some of you asked for clarification.
>
>
> General Noise Floor:
>
> INV-L: S2-S3 spikes above S5
>
> EWE:   S4 steady, no spikes   (Higher than the INV-L !!!!!)
>
>
>
> Forward reception:
>
> In the following table,  (S1, S2) means S1 on the INV-L,  S2 on the EWE.
>
> SP5GRM   (S7, S7)
>
> OK2RJC   (S9 , S6)
>
> RA2FV    (S6, S4)
>
> RN3CT    (S7,  S4)
>
> EU3AR    (S5, Below noise level)
>
> UT7NY    (S5,  S4)
>
> EI4KF    (S5,  S4)
>
> YO9HP    (S5,  S5)
>
> UY0ZG    (S5,  S4)
>
>
> Those stations that were S4 on the EWE were pretty much riding the noise
> level and I could hear them, but they were much stronger (and easily
> copied) on the INV-L!
>
>
> Conclusions (perhaps incorrect?..)
>
> A) The noise floor of the EWE can be higher than that of the INV-L.
>
> B) The EWE is NOT suitable for weak signal reception
>
>
> If A and B above are correct, what?s the point of using an EWE?
>
>
> I state my conclusions based upon my observations, knowing full well a lot
> of you successfully use the EWE antenna,  so I still need to learn more, do
> more tweaking, etc.
>
>
>
> Back Rejection:   I recorded some stations that should have been off the
> back of the EWE (or thereabouts?..  I didn?t check them on QRZ.com,  but
> just
> assumed 8,9 and 7 land stations were behind me?..)
>
> N8 (S9+10 ,  S7)
>
> N7: (S7,  S4)
>
> N8  (S9+10,  S9+10)
>
> N9  (S9,      S7)
>
> N8 (S9+10,   S8)
>
> N8  (S9+20,   S9)
>
>
> So, I am seeing rejection off the back of the EWE.   It doesn?t happen all
> the time, but as I said I didn?t do a search to see where each station was
> actually located.
>
>
> Some of you asked how I know my cable and transformer are good.  I attached
> the feedline to the transformer,  then used a resistance substitution box
> to put a load on the other end of the transformer.   A 470 ohms resistance
> provided an SWR of 1.1.  As I moved the resistance above and below 470,
> the SWR moved as expected.   Since the transformer is 9:1,  I felt this
> showed the coax and transformer were OKI.
>
>
> Comments welcome.
>
>
> 73 Mark K3MSB
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

From K9MMS at comcast.net  Thu Dec 31 14:35:48 2015
From: K9MMS at comcast.net (Gary)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2015 13:35:48 -0600
Subject: Topband: SPTBDC Scheduling
Message-ID: <66B38702-8DAA-428A-9B19-DB94EB7C4B35@comcast.net>

I agree that more SP160 events would be great.  As mentioned, this would be more advantageous for those in the Southern Hemisphere, allow other opportunities if bad conditions occur for an annual event, etc.

I think that the timing of the December Stew is very poor.  Having it right near Christmas when many people are busy with family get togethers makes it difficult or impossible for some SP160 interested persons to participate.  I have missed a few December "Stews" because of this.  After all, family time is much more important than ham radio.

A few years ago, I exchanged email with Tree N6TR about this.  I think once it was earlier in December, but that was some years ago.  I think having the Winter "Stew" the third weekend in December would be better -- after the ARRL 160 and 10 meter contests, but before the Christmas weekend.  This should work well much of the time, even though Christmas Day obviously varies with respect to the day of the week.

. . . Just my my opinion for $0.02 worth.  :)

Merry Christmas and a great 2016 to everyone.
73,
      Gary . K9MMS



Sent from my iPad

From adkmurray at yahoo.com  Thu Dec 31 15:34:18 2015
From: adkmurray at yahoo.com (Jim Murray)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2015 20:34:18 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Topband: SPTBDC Scheduling
References: <2105389653.5778463.1451594058462.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <2105389653.5778463.1451594058462.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

" ?I think that the timing of the December Stew is very poor.? Having it right near Christmas when many people are busy with family get togethers makes it difficult or impossible for some SP160 interested persons to participate."

I'm Surprised that this hasn't come up before but possibly I missed it. ?I have this problem every year it seems with family visitors staying have not been able to participate other than turn on the radio once in a while to see how things are going. ?This year while checking in one evening signals were all over the place stateside and EU, so missed a good one, at least from my qth.Happy New Years to All,
jim/k2hn

From ve9aa at nbnet.nb.ca  Thu Dec 31 15:38:51 2015
From: ve9aa at nbnet.nb.ca (Mike Smith VE9AA)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2015 16:38:51 -0400
Subject: Topband: SPTBDC Scheduling
Message-ID: <000001d1440b$530ac9c0$f9205d40$@nbnet.nb.ca>

Gary K9MMS says (in part)

?
I think that the timing of the December Stew is very poor.  Having it
right 

near Christmas when many people are busy with family get togethers makes it 

difficult or impossible
?

 

          I?ll have to respectfully disagree with my friend Gary/MMS there.

 

It?s specifically BECAUSE it?s just after Xmas that I can find some time to
operate the Stew as I have a couple days off by then !

Some years it?s back to back with the RAC Winter contest (which is a big
deal up here in the Great White North, eh) and that makes it really really
tough to keep going doing 2 contests back to back like that, but this year
was superb timing indeed.

 

If I hadn?t been so lazy, I would?ve played the entire 14hrs.

 

I was too tired from antenna repairs, snowblowing etc and only have myself
to blame for the reduced score, however contest timing was awesome
..not to
mention avg or slightly above avg condx to EU from here with my hastily
installed wimpy wire on Xmas day.

 

So, yes, Xmas season is hectic, however I still found time late at night
once everyone went to bed, to put in 9?hrs.(max is 14 hrs)

 

Keep it as is and stay away from RAC Winter dates please !

 

Mike VE9AA

p.s.-if you plan to be a contender for a plaque or want to place in the top
5, then yes, Xmas and Family will certainly hamper a total iron pants-BIC
?super SERIOUS? effort. (if that?s what Gary means, then I guess I?ll agree,
however judging from the 3830 results, very few played the entire 14hrs.

 

Mike, Coreen & Corey

Keswick Ridge, NB

 


From dxradio at k8fc.com  Thu Dec 31 15:48:43 2015
From: dxradio at k8fc.com (Joe Wilkowski)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2015 15:48:43 -0500
Subject: Topband: Stew Beef
In-Reply-To: <03b101d1435b$13045130$390cf390$@sbcglobal.net>
References: <03a801d14356$21e7e8b0$65b7ba10$@sbcglobal.net>	<60F295A0389F43B8A5F7B2F24AEE0DC5@StevePC>	<D8084D77748F4CBAA7B11931099D7810@w520>
	<03b101d1435b$13045130$390cf390$@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <001201d1440c$a3ba31c0$eb2e9540$@k8fc.com>

Well, since it is a public forum I have to side with Larry on this.  I am a
contester and enjoy mostly top band operating but I would have to agree that
too much of a good thing gets old quick.  It used to be that you looked
forward to the SP, but warm-ups, pre-warmups etc. seem to carry the theme
too far.
- Joe K8FC

-----Original Message-----
From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Larry
Burke
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2015 6:38 PM
To: topband at contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Stew Beef

> Fortunately participation is not mandatory for those who have had enough.

Ah, but that's exactly my point. Those with a limited or no interest in this
event DO have to "participate" in it by virtue of the additional weekend of
chaos that it causes. 

- Larry K5RK

-----Original Message-----
From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Jeff AC0C
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2015 5:31 PM
To: Steve; topband at contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Stew Beef

Fortunately participation is not mandatory for those who have had enough. 
Given the winter stew was a thunderstorm extravaganza for most of the
midwest, another shot at it prior to spring would be attractive for many.

April may be a bit late to have good low noise conditions.

73/jeff/ac0c
www.ac0c.com
alpha-charlie-zero-charlie

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2015 5:05 PM
To: topband at contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Stew Beef

I tend to agree Larry - even more Stew is not necessarily a good thing.

Steve



WEB - "The VE7SL Radio Notebook":  http://members.shaw.ca/ve7sl

VE7SL BLOG - "Homebrewing and Operating Adventures From 2200m to Nanowaves":
http://ve7sl.blogspot.ca/

_________________
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband 

_________________
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

_________________
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


From tree at kkn.net  Thu Dec 31 16:49:17 2015
From: tree at kkn.net (Tree)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2015 13:49:17 -0800
Subject: Topband: SPTBDC Scheduling
In-Reply-To: <000001d1440b$530ac9c0$f9205d40$@nbnet.nb.ca>
References: <000001d1440b$530ac9c0$f9205d40$@nbnet.nb.ca>
Message-ID: <CAKF9HhY5DVgVVRbtsi8QaZeKQK9EpTKA0f_foU+kNrB8vJongg@mail.gmail.com>

"It?s specifically BECAUSE it?s just after Xmas that I can find some time to
operate the Stew as I have a couple days off by then !"

This is a good example of why it is impossible to please all of the people
- ever.  :-)

Please note that the next Stew is on December 17th - so the opposite group
of people will be unhappy with the schedule next year.

Tree N6TR

On Thu, Dec 31, 2015 at 12:38 PM, Mike Smith VE9AA <ve9aa at nbnet.nb.ca>
wrote:

> Gary K9MMS says (in part)
>
> ??I think that the timing of the December Stew is very poor.  Having it
> right
>
> near Christmas when many people are busy with family get togethers makes it
>
> difficult or impossible??
>
>
>
>           I?ll have to respectfully disagree with my friend Gary/MMS there.
>
>
>
> It?s specifically BECAUSE it?s just after Xmas that I can find some time to
> operate the Stew as I have a couple days off by then !
>
> Some years it?s back to back with the RAC Winter contest (which is a big
> deal up here in the Great White North, eh) and that makes it really really
> tough to keep going doing 2 contests back to back like that, but this year
> was superb timing indeed.
>
>
>
> If I hadn?t been so lazy, I would?ve played the entire 14hrs.
>
>
>
> I was too tired from antenna repairs, snowblowing etc and only have myself
> to blame for the reduced score, however contest timing was awesome?..not to
> mention avg or slightly above avg condx to EU from here with my hastily
> installed wimpy wire on Xmas day.
>
>
>
> So, yes, Xmas season is hectic, however I still found time late at night
> once everyone went to bed, to put in 9?hrs.(max is 14 hrs)
>
>
>
> Keep it as is and stay away from RAC Winter dates please !
>
>
>
> Mike VE9AA
>
> p.s.-if you plan to be a contender for a plaque or want to place in the top
> 5, then yes, Xmas and Family will certainly hamper a total iron pants-BIC
> ?super SERIOUS? effort. (if that?s what Gary means, then I guess I?ll
> agree,
> however judging from the 3830 results, very few played the entire 14hrs.
>
>
>
> Mike, Coreen & Corey
>
> Keswick Ridge, NB
>
>
>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>

From k2owr at comcast.net  Thu Dec 31 16:54:42 2015
From: k2owr at comcast.net (K4OWR)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2015 16:54:42 -0500
Subject: Topband: SPTBDC Scheduling
In-Reply-To: <CAKF9HhY5DVgVVRbtsi8QaZeKQK9EpTKA0f_foU+kNrB8vJongg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <000001d1440b$530ac9c0$f9205d40$@nbnet.nb.ca>
	<CAKF9HhY5DVgVVRbtsi8QaZeKQK9EpTKA0f_foU+kNrB8vJongg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5685A422.4040508@comcast.net>

*Flogging a dead horse* (alternatively *beating a dead horse*, or 
*beating a dead dog* in some parts of the Anglophone 
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English-speaking_world> world) is an 
idiom <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiom> that means a particular 
request or line of conversation is already foreclosed or otherwise 
resolved, and any attempt to continue it is futile; or that to continue 
in any endeavour (physical, mental, etc.) is a waste of time as the 
outcome is already decided.

From k3nd at yahoo.com  Thu Dec 31 17:03:04 2015
From: k3nd at yahoo.com (GALE STEWARD)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2015 22:03:04 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Topband: Commercial 160 antennas?
In-Reply-To: <56856C97.4080504@audiosystemsgroup.com>
References: <56856C97.4080504@audiosystemsgroup.com>
Message-ID: <1664565849.4448172.1451599385019.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

I have to agree with Jim on this. At one time, I had both a 80M and a 160M inverted vee at the top of a 100ft tower. The location was on the top of a ridge and much better than average.
While the 80M inverted vee was a very good DX antenna (could work JA's LP from SE PA at sunset), the 160M was a mediocre DX performer at best. I was running 1200W on both bands. A 90ft vertical at the same location on 160 was MUCH better.
FWIW...
73, Stew K3ND
 

      From: Jim Brown <jim at audiosystemsgroup.com>
 To: topband at contesting.com 
 Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2015 12:57 PM
 Subject: Re: Topband: Commercial 160 antennas?
   
On Thu,12/31/2015 4:43 AM, Ed Sawyer wrote:
> My suggestion for a simple job, is to have someone climb the tower and put a
> pulley and rope at the top.

Very good idea.

>? An inverted vee with a peak at 90 ft and the
> end of the antenna legs at least 50 ft off the ground will do a reasonable
> job for you.

Only if what you want is a cloud-warmer that works short to medium 
distance.

> Alternatively, an inverted L, with 4 elevated radials ? at least 10 ft off
> the ground ? 15 ft is better ? will do pretty well with the kink of the L at
> 90 feet.

This is a FAR, FAR better idea. Better yet, load the tower, add the radials.

73, Jim K9YC

_________________
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

  

From tshoppa at gmail.com  Thu Dec 31 17:19:00 2015
From: tshoppa at gmail.com (Tim Shoppa)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2015 17:19:00 -0500
Subject: Topband: SPTBDC Scheduling
In-Reply-To: <000001d1440b$530ac9c0$f9205d40$@nbnet.nb.ca>
References: <000001d1440b$530ac9c0$f9205d40$@nbnet.nb.ca>
Message-ID: <CAJ_qRvZnBc60bNNgXqmAJbs0Oi4JBs0KHaY1gSownA5-BH-7Sw@mail.gmail.com>

I mostly agree with Mike VE9AA here. Like CQ WW CW which is often the
weekend after Thanksgiving, my family's holiday schedule, my work schedule,
and especially my kids' activities allows more "sleep buildup time" and
"sleep recovery time" for more hours of participation in the weekend after
Christmas.

That doesn't mean I'll be able to do it full time every year, just that it
works in favor of more hours in the contest.

Tim N3QE

On Thu, Dec 31, 2015 at 3:38 PM, Mike Smith VE9AA <ve9aa at nbnet.nb.ca> wrote:

> Gary K9MMS says (in part)
>
> ??I think that the timing of the December Stew is very poor.  Having it
> right
>
> near Christmas when many people are busy with family get togethers makes it
>
> difficult or impossible??
>
>
>
>           I?ll have to respectfully disagree with my friend Gary/MMS there.
>
>
>
> It?s specifically BECAUSE it?s just after Xmas that I can find some time to
> operate the Stew as I have a couple days off by then !
>
> Some years it?s back to back with the RAC Winter contest (which is a big
> deal up here in the Great White North, eh) and that makes it really really
> tough to keep going doing 2 contests back to back like that, but this year
> was superb timing indeed.
>
>
>
> If I hadn?t been so lazy, I would?ve played the entire 14hrs.
>
>
>
> I was too tired from antenna repairs, snowblowing etc and only have myself
> to blame for the reduced score, however contest timing was awesome?..not to
> mention avg or slightly above avg condx to EU from here with my hastily
> installed wimpy wire on Xmas day.
>
>
>
> So, yes, Xmas season is hectic, however I still found time late at night
> once everyone went to bed, to put in 9?hrs.(max is 14 hrs)
>
>
>
> Keep it as is and stay away from RAC Winter dates please !
>
>
>
> Mike VE9AA
>
> p.s.-if you plan to be a contender for a plaque or want to place in the top
> 5, then yes, Xmas and Family will certainly hamper a total iron pants-BIC
> ?super SERIOUS? effort. (if that?s what Gary means, then I guess I?ll
> agree,
> however judging from the 3830 results, very few played the entire 14hrs.
>
>
>
> Mike, Coreen & Corey
>
> Keswick Ridge, NB
>
>
>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>

From mikewate at gmail.com  Thu Dec 31 18:08:47 2015
From: mikewate at gmail.com (Mike Waters)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2015 17:08:47 -0600
Subject: Topband: Stew Beef
In-Reply-To: <001201d1440c$a3ba31c0$eb2e9540$@k8fc.com>
References: <03a801d14356$21e7e8b0$65b7ba10$@sbcglobal.net>
	<60F295A0389F43B8A5F7B2F24AEE0DC5@StevePC>
	<D8084D77748F4CBAA7B11931099D7810@w520>
	<03b101d1435b$13045130$390cf390$@sbcglobal.net>
	<001201d1440c$a3ba31c0$eb2e9540$@k8fc.com>
Message-ID: <CA+FxYXhTYNR01Lt+DMR0_Tgps=8W6VedZqvv_R4b1SBHiwYGFA@mail.gmail.com>

Four Stew Perry events is *not* going too far.

Here's why I say that.

The Stew Perry Topband Challenge --compared to other 160 CW contests-- is
by far the fairest of all 160m CW contests. It was simply a stroke of
genius, the way it is set up. Period.

It is also shorter! If it were as long as the others, four events might be
a different story. But it's only 24 hours long.

In the Northern hemisphere, the two Stews in the warmer months are --for
most of us-- almost always guaranteed to be marred by very strong lightning
QRN. On top of all that racket in our ears, some of us will simply be
unable to operate without risking a damaging lightning strike.
*However*, those two Stews are more optimal for our Topband friends in the
Southern hemisphere. Eliminating those two would simply be discriminating
against them. There's just no other way to say it. (And now that I think
about it, perhaps adding this new winter event now evens things out a
little for the entire world to at least some extent. :-)

During the Stew last week, conditions in North America were terrible.
(That's happened before, and it'll absolutely happen again.) This new
wintertime date gives us a second chance to experience the magic and
challenge of the Top Band; and I for one, embrace it wholeheartedly! It
gave me a new enthusiasm for operating 160 CW.

The only thing I might change is to move the March 12/13 event to an
earlier date. If (for example) it was in February, the chances of QRN would
be less. But since I don't know what the QRN season is in the Southern
hemisphere, perhaps that's not the case.

What the exact dates should be, and whether a separate category for the sum
of all four Stews in a year should be created, others can vote on. But
leave it at four! Please. :-)

73, Mike
http://www.w0btu.com/160_meters.html

From wrcromwell at gmail.com  Thu Dec 31 18:37:51 2015
From: wrcromwell at gmail.com (Bill Cromwell)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2015 18:37:51 -0500
Subject: Topband: Stew Beef
In-Reply-To: <001201d1440c$a3ba31c0$eb2e9540$@k8fc.com>
References: <03a801d14356$21e7e8b0$65b7ba10$@sbcglobal.net>
	<60F295A0389F43B8A5F7B2F24AEE0DC5@StevePC>
	<D8084D77748F4CBAA7B11931099D7810@w520>
	<03b101d1435b$13045130$390cf390$@sbcglobal.net>
	<001201d1440c$a3ba31c0$eb2e9540$@k8fc.com>
Message-ID: <5685BC4F.4050306@gmail.com>

As per usual...

It all depends on whose ox is being gored.

73,

Bill  KU8H


On 12/31/2015 03:48 PM, Joe Wilkowski wrote:
> Well, since it is a public forum I have to side with Larry on this.  I am a
> contester and enjoy mostly top band operating but I would have to agree that
> too much of a good thing gets old quick.  It used to be that you looked
> forward to the SP, but warm-ups, pre-warmups etc. seem to carry the theme
> too far.
> - Joe K8FC
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Larry
> Burke
> Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2015 6:38 PM
> To: topband at contesting.com
> Subject: Re: Topband: Stew Beef
>
>> Fortunately participation is not mandatory for those who have had enough.
> Ah, but that's exactly my point. Those with a limited or no interest in this
> event DO have to "participate" in it by virtue of the additional weekend of
> chaos that it causes.
>
> - Larry K5RK
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Jeff AC0C
> Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2015 5:31 PM
> To: Steve; topband at contesting.com
> Subject: Re: Topband: Stew Beef
>
> Fortunately participation is not mandatory for those who have had enough.
> Given the winter stew was a thunderstorm extravaganza for most of the
> midwest, another shot at it prior to spring would be attractive for many.
>
> April may be a bit late to have good low noise conditions.
>
> 73/jeff/ac0c
> www.ac0c.com
> alpha-charlie-zero-charlie
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Steve
> Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2015 5:05 PM
> To: topband at contesting.com
> Subject: Re: Topband: Stew Beef
>
> I tend to agree Larry - even more Stew is not necessarily a good thing.
>
> Steve
>
>
>
> WEB - "The VE7SL Radio Notebook":  http://members.shaw.ca/ve7sl
>
> VE7SL BLOG - "Homebrewing and Operating Adventures From 2200m to Nanowaves":
> http://ve7sl.blogspot.ca/
>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>


From mort.g2jl at ntlworld.com  Thu Dec 31 18:51:29 2015
From: mort.g2jl at ntlworld.com (Mort)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2015 23:51:29 -0000
Subject: Topband: SPTBDC Scheduling
References: <000001d1440b$530ac9c0$f9205d40$@nbnet.nb.ca><CAKF9HhY5DVgVVRbtsi8QaZeKQK9EpTKA0f_foU+kNrB8vJongg@mail.gmail.com>
	<5685A422.4040508@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <C8501DECB28845039431E22D9AC8EC9D@experimental>

*Flogging a dead horse* (alternatively *beating a dead horse*, or 
*beating a dead dog* in some parts of the Anglophone 
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English-speaking_world> world) is an 
idiom <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiom> that means a particular 
request or line of conversation is already foreclosed or otherwise 
resolved, and any attempt to continue it is futile; or that to continue 
in any endeavour (physical, mental, etc.) is a waste of time as the 
outcome is already decided.


Yes !

That sums up Top Band for me,  in a nutshell;  On the air 61 years,  and though I have 200 countries on 8 bands,  I'll never live to get 100 on 1.8 with a low "stealth" antenna & immense noise-levels.  I even need VK / ZL for WAC.  But then,  every time I call CQ I get told this is MY frequency.  Nevertheless,  I have PY and several Ws,  who must have liquid-helium cooled beverages.  But I prefer English unpasteurised warmish beer...

73  -  Mort,  G2JL

From mkve7ca at gmail.com  Thu Dec 31 19:47:16 2015
From: mkve7ca at gmail.com (Markus Hansen)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2015 16:47:16 -0800
Subject: Topband: Stew Beef
In-Reply-To: <CA+FxYXhTYNR01Lt+DMR0_Tgps=8W6VedZqvv_R4b1SBHiwYGFA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <03a801d14356$21e7e8b0$65b7ba10$@sbcglobal.net>
	<60F295A0389F43B8A5F7B2F24AEE0DC5@StevePC>
	<D8084D77748F4CBAA7B11931099D7810@w520>
	<03b101d1435b$13045130$390cf390$@sbcglobal.net>
	<001201d1440c$a3ba31c0$eb2e9540$@k8fc.com>
	<CA+FxYXhTYNR01Lt+DMR0_Tgps=8W6VedZqvv_R4b1SBHiwYGFA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5B8E1B8A-6C96-4F8E-927D-7CD2F611B812@gmail.com>

I totally agree with Mike.  VE7CA

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 31, 2015, at 3:08 PM, Mike Waters <mikewate at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Four Stew Perry events is *not* going too far.
> 
> Here's why I say that.
> 
> The Stew Perry Topband Challenge --compared to other 160 CW contests-- is
> by far the fairest of all 160m CW contests. It was simply a stroke of
> genius, the way it is set up. Period.
> 
> It is also shorter! If it were as long as the others, four events might be
> a different story. But it's only 24 hours long.
> 
> In the Northern hemisphere, the two Stews in the warmer months are --for
> most of us-- almost always guaranteed to be marred by very strong lightning
> QRN. On top of all that racket in our ears, some of us will simply be
> unable to operate without risking a damaging lightning strike.
> *However*, those two Stews are more optimal for our Topband friends in the
> Southern hemisphere. Eliminating those two would simply be discriminating
> against them. There's just no other way to say it. (And now that I think
> about it, perhaps adding this new winter event now evens things out a
> little for the entire world to at least some extent. :-)
> 
> During the Stew last week, conditions in North America were terrible.
> (That's happened before, and it'll absolutely happen again.) This new
> wintertime date gives us a second chance to experience the magic and
> challenge of the Top Band; and I for one, embrace it wholeheartedly! It
> gave me a new enthusiasm for operating 160 CW.
> 
> The only thing I might change is to move the March 12/13 event to an
> earlier date. If (for example) it was in February, the chances of QRN would
> be less. But since I don't know what the QRN season is in the Southern
> hemisphere, perhaps that's not the case.
> 
> What the exact dates should be, and whether a separate category for the sum
> of all four Stews in a year should be created, others can vote on. But
> leave it at four! Please. :-)
> 
> 73, Mike
> http://www.w0btu.com/160_meters.html
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

From vk6vz at arach.net.au  Thu Dec 31 19:58:18 2015
From: vk6vz at arach.net.au (Steve Ireland)
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2016 08:58:18 +0800
Subject: Topband: Good reason for multiple Stews
Message-ID: <3DBF832E893844CF967813028F2BCD89@StevesHPpcPC>

G?day

As a long-time supporter of the Stew Perry TBDC and donor of Royal Flying Doctor Service caps, it has been great fun reading the various responses to the Boring Amateur Radio Club?s innovation of the Spring Stew. Owing to the organisers? sense of fun, even the criticism was funny and fun to read!  

One of the great things about the Stew Perry (or any contest for that matter) is that it gives us a chance to operate for a whole night-plus and experience conditions over this period ? and learn.  

This year was no exception ? I?ve never experienced an all-night pipeline into the Baltic in 20 years of 160m operation from Western Australia and to be able to observe how the strength of the pipeline ebbed and flowed was fascinating.

A Spring (northern hemisphere) Stew is going to be very interesting experience and I look forward to it.

Rick N6RK (I think) made a good point about southern hemisphere conditions.  In VK6, the period between spring and summer equinoxes is the best time by far for working into Europe and North America, but it is the noisiest half of the year by far.  We have many thunderstorms and the general atmospheric noise level is high.  Please run QRO in the Stew so we can hear you all ?down under?/?down south? ? that will help to maintain/increase participation.

Vy 73

Steve, VK6VZ   



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From mikewate at gmail.com  Thu Dec 31 20:28:22 2015
From: mikewate at gmail.com (Mike Waters)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2015 19:28:22 -0600
Subject: Topband: TBDC
In-Reply-To: <SNT151-DS213AF91C2D6D85F7B1B3F297FF0@phx.gbl>
References: <SNT151-DS213AF91C2D6D85F7B1B3F297FF0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CA+FxYXg=oKCvzn2=ZGYt5d+83HeGq_WyU7iZP6WeBcYFhrKH0w@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks, sounds logical.  :-)

Hurry up, March 12!!!

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com

FYI:
>
> The contest calendar was scoured for the 4th Stew and there were either
> conflicts with major contests or other 160 contests through January and
> February.
>
> The March 12/13 date was the earliest after the first of the year that
> could reasonably accommodate it.
>