Topband: CQWW160 Remote receiver rule

Wed Jan 21 13:37:08 EST 2015

 Dado and brethren concerned,

You are right about the qso definition. And you are right again narrowing the subject to what would be commonly accepted as a QTH. 
As I remember from contesting back in 80´s, the station including all its antennas must be located within 500 meters circle. (I may be be mistaken since I didn´t like math and geometry at school and still confuse diameter and perimeter LOL). Then as I recall the QTH definition shifted to the property limits. Now you are pushing it to 1 geographical degree.

As for innovations and conservatism in their acceptance by the majority, IMHO when an innovation becomes available to the majority then it is time to accomodate rules to it.

As for the learning curve. A guy builds a 10KW amplifier and learns a lot while constructing it. Is he exempted from the rules?

N1EN (?) expressed a brilliant idea to create an entry for those who succumbed to the "classic" understanding of contesting - boy and his radio. The entry concept can be clearly defined if necessary.

To summarize... Let's read Wayne's, N7NG immortal lines "If the rules are not enforced ...." 

73 Alex

HC2AO

Wed, 21 Jan 2015 10:00:20 +0100 от "Dragoslav Balaban" <dado at prijedor.com>:
>Hi all, 
>
> 
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>QSO is information exchange between 2 station, not two OP, and each station has Geographic LOCATION, my Locator is JN84IX...
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>RST is how I hear Al HC2AO TX/TX Antenna from HC2AO location with my/E74AW RX/RX  Antenna on my location , and other way....how Al hear my TX/Antenna with his RX on his Location....
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> 
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>It s completely irrelevant where OP sitting, at radio, next room remote, his home remote, or other continent.... 
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>As I say before, QSO is exchange between TWO STATION, not TWO OP, I don't know why is this so hard to understand and accept...
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> 
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>Otherwise, we need not station, antennas, radio, two OP can talk phone, skype or any other way....
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> 
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>So if we accept that, then only important question is how far can/should RX system be from TX system, I think there are some rules abt that.
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>It can be 1 mile radius, same Locator, or so, its matter of agreement, anything reasonable , 
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>but for sure, cant be TX in NY and RX in LA  , this make no sense .... or TX in EU and RX on other continent...
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> 
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>IMHO, 1 degrees Longitude/latitude, or 2, or whatever agreed, would be decent , 
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>1 degree latitude would be 4 minutes in time , or 40000 KM/360 = 111.111 Km at Equator/0 degrees latitude
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>and that mean approximately same propagation... 
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> 
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>73 all GL ctest
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> 
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>dado E74AW
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> 
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>-----Original Message-----
>From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of ALEXEY OGORODOV
>Sent: Tuesday, 20 January, 2015 19:55
>To: Wayne;  topband at contesting.com
>Subject: Re: Topband: CQWW160 Remote receiver rule
>
> 
>
>Wayne,
>
> 
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>true but we pretend that we live in a perfect world. =) Ham Radio is one of the easiest ways to feel acomplished. But that´s another topic and rather of  psychological and social field. =)
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> 
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>Seriousely now, then if we know that it is a mostly a gypsie circus (no disrespect to gypsies - I love you, guys, ever since you taught me the fortune-telling), why do we still bother?
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> 
>
> 
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>73  Alex
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>HC2AO 
>
> 
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>P.S. I tried on several ocasions to be heard by some contests organizers about severe violations of the rules - yet, it was the voice of the crier in desert.
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> 
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>(just in case I have a pesonal lake to jump into )) )
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> 
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>Tue, 20 Jan 2015 11:46:17 -0700 от "Wayne" < <mailto: n7ng at bresnan.net >  n7ng at bresnan.net >:
>
>>Alex,
>
>> 
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>>Rules that cannot be enforced are not rules. Further they make the 
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>>sponsor look foolish. Do you really believe that rules are always 
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>>followed? (If you do, I have a bridge you might be interested in...)
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>> 
>
>>Wayne, N7NG/6
>
>> 
>
>> 
>
>>> 
>
>>>----- Original Message -----
>
>>>From: "ALEXEY OGORODOV" < <mailto: ua4wae at mail.ru >  ua4wae at mail.ru >
>
>>>To: < <mailto: topband at contesting.com >  topband at contesting.com >
>
>>>Cc:
>
>>>Sent: Tue, 20 Jan 2015 21:37:21 +0300
>
>>>Subject: Re: Topband: CQWW160 Remote receiver rule
>
>>> 
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>>> 
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>>>Brethren,
>
>>> 
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>>>why are there rules? In our case they were cset in order to create a reasonable fair playground limits for the MAJORITY of participants. The majority still falls into the conditions described in the rules. 
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>>> 
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>>>To the remote RX/TX site owner - fellows, why don't you ask the rule-makers to create a special entry for you. That sounds more logical.
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>>> 
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>>>With all due respect to all parties involved.
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>>> 
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>>>73 Alex
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>>>HC2AO
>
>>> 
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>>> 
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>>>Tue, 20 Jan 2015 13:30:02 -0500 от Chester Latawiec :
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>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>>Frank.  I'm with you 100%.
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>>>>I have accomplished the same as you.  Set up a remote listening site in a friends back yard (he has several acres) specifically for 160M.I found this to be a much cheaper alternative to buying a farm and leaving my spouse behind (she is not leaving our present domicile).  My remote station build has been the most rewarding both technically and personally.  I have had to learn stuff I never had any intention of learning in the first place.  But it did get me DXCC on 160M.
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>>>>So why should you and I be punished because we do not want to spend dollars buying a farm and installing yet another station with towers, antennas, hardline, .... 
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>>>>CQ and Stew Perry allow remote receive sites at least, within a 60 mile or so radius.  My site is 15 miles away.  The first time I worked a JA,  I was like a 16 year old kid.  And when I worked Amsterdam Is. last year on 160, I believed I had achieved my best accomplishment in this marvelous hobby of ours over a 46 year time span.
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>>>>Maybe others out there will write ARRL and ask for consideration of rule change.For this weekend, it's back to my 10M vertical and mag loop for receive.  There's just no comparison.
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>>>>73 Chet VE3CFK
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>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>>> Message: 12
>
>>>>> Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2015 11:50:57 -0330 >> From: Frank 
>
>>>Davis <  <mailto: fdavis at nfld.net >  fdavis at nfld.net > >> To:   <mailto: topband at contesting.com >  topband at contesting.com
>
>>>>> Subject: Topband: CQWW160 Remote receiver rule >> 
>
>>>Message-ID: <  <mailto: 65FE178B-307C-43F6-B425-25AB95B31520 at nfld.net >  65FE178B-307C-43F6-B425-25AB95B31520 at nfld.net >
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>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=us-ascii
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>>>>>
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>>>>> The contest rules dictate that e remote receiver controlled over the internet is not permitted in the CQWW160 contest.
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>>>>>
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>>>>> I have deployed a remote SDR at a seaside location within my home grid square GN37. I did this specifically to improve my listening capability for 160M.  The setup and refinement of this remote SDR has taken two years of learning about IP networking;  remote access via PC issues; how to switch antennas remotely; and how to restart the system when it stops working and to avoid driving to the site during winter.  Its been a great learning experience.
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>>>>> 
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>>>>> My home QTH in the city is not a good lowband receiving site due to the local electrical and RF noise that obilterates all but the strongest signals on 160 and 80M.  I live on a standard suburban lot with a tower in close proximity to my K9AY system ....even though I have the K9AY feedline well choked and by passed the noise it picks up overrides the weak signals.   For my remote rx system in the same grid square as my home is really the only way for me to hear anything during the event.  Over the past number of years with the proliferation of plasma TV's; wifi routers; cheap swiching PS wall warts etc.  the noise level in the local area has grown to be extreme.
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>>>>>
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>>>>> At the remote SDR site, that I am fortunate enough to own, the environment is very quiet ...the ocean is 100ft away from my antenna, I can almost hear a pindrop in Eu!.  During contest days when the band is  good I can hear Eu signals  during the early afternoon on the SDR and a Pixel mag loop....
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>>>>>
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>>>>> I intend to play in the 160m contest, which is one of my favorite outings, but cannot submit a log other then for checking purposes. 
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>>>>> Its time for the contest managers to review the rules  pertaining to cases such as mine which I am sure is the case for many of you.  What is wrong with improving my station and to be able to use in this manner?.  It is located within my home grid square.
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>>>>>
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>>>>> Yes I can setup a full rx/tx site there with tx antenna and operate remotely - that is OK it appears - but that adds a whole new level of complexity and cost that I have avoided this far.
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>>>>>
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>>>>> Maybe if enough of us push for it we can have the rules modified to permit remote receivers within the same grid square as the home station.
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>>>>>
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>>>>> 73 Frank VO1HP
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>>>>>
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>>>>>
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>>>>>
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>>>>> ------------------------------ >> >> Subject: 
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>>>Digest Footer >> >> 
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>>>>>
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>>>>>
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>>>>> ------------------------------ >> >> End of 
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>>>Topband Digest, Vol 145, Issue 20 >> 
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>>>****************************************
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>>>> 
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