Topband: 25 DB Gain Omni Directional Antenna for TB

Sun May 17 12:05:02 EDT 2015

Kelly,  Field strength measurements, meticulously adopted by the FCC 
long ago, for AM broadcast stations, are more than mere speculations.  
The are accurate enough to verify the power levels required by broadcast 
stations.  There is no magic here.  Many daytime mainland stations heard 
here at my sunset and have a pre-sunrise waivers for 5 watts or less go 
from good SWL copy at 1-KW,  at 5 watts they vanish.  Due to competition 
some stations, who never make the switch, are hit with hefty fines which 
are supported alone by FSM work done by field engineers.  Here for 
direct contrast I have several Beverages aimed right on PR  and can 
determine precisely the difference and time when each switch between 
high power and low power.

These tests are not opinion, suspicion, superstition, or myth but are 
recorded values repeated many times over.

Conversely, In Aguadilla WABA is a 5KW day and 1-Kw night on 850 Khz  
they produce a daytime signal of S3 at my location. In Ponce WDEP 
(1490Khz) also runs 5KW Day and 1KW night and produces a daytime signal 
at my location of S9.  My receiver is calibrated at 5db per S unit.  In 
order for the Aguadilla station (WABA) to have a signal here equal to 
that of the Ponce station it would have to increase its signal by 30 
dbs   Unless KP4KE or anyone else can tell me what antenna on 160 meters 
has an omni directional gain of 25 db is used....then for me it's case  
closed.  I am also certain that no "tests", nor "quest operators," nor 
"trustworthy" experiments, at a ham station in Aguadilla, PR using a 
"double bazooka" as claimed, are about to disprove Maxwell's Equations.

Or as the old folks in North Dakota used to say......."figures don't lie 
but liars sure can figure."

Herb Schoenbohm, KV4FZ

On 5/17/2015 10:24 AM, ve4xt at mymts.net wrote:
> Herb,
>
> It does sound incredulous, to say the least.
>
> But even ground-wave signals can be subject to reflections and attenuations and cancellations and additions such that it's not completely outside the bounds of reality, given the different path lengths between Christiansted and Aguadilla and between Christiansted and Ponce.
>
> While I understand, and probably share, your suspicions, the only way to know for certain is to have a trusted operator verify KP4KE's power level and then attempt to recreate the performance at a known 4.7 watts. Perhaps that requires disconnecting all power sources to the station and using just a battery, with an ammeter, to eliminate the possibility of a hidden amplifier.
>
> If KP4KE is willing to allow such a test, doesn't that buy him at least open minds on our part?
>
> Given your own observations, and given the probability of recreating the conditions that led to your observations, perhaps yours is the best station to be the receiving station? Wouldn't you relish the chance to be proven right, even if it comes with the chance of being proven wrong? Would you be willing to suspend disbelief long enough to have an open mind?
>
> Anything less than a trustworthy experiment is just speculation.
>
> I share your suspicion, but suspicion is not proof. That it appears KP4KE is willing to try is, to say the least, intriguing. What's the harm in trying?
>
> 73, Kelly
> ve4xt
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On May 17, 2015, at 7:11 AM, "Herbert Schoenbohm" <herbs at vitelcom.net> wrote:
>>
>> Felipe,  With all due respect to your unique position I would think that many would like to know what kind of antenna design devised by anyone, even Eric NP3A "with a degree of antenna design" extant that could produce an equal signal here at my QTH with the claimed 4.7 watts to NP4A's 1500 watts.  This would require an antenna capable of producing 25 db gain.  Since my QTH is 125 miles SE of KP4 I would assume that this supper antenna at KP4KE had an omni-directional pattern. If you know of such an 160 meter antenna design that is  capable of  producing 320 times the power, or 25 db gain, it would be worth millions in the communications and broadcast industry.  The claim that KP4KE's*"double bazooka"*  was capable of such performance when his 160 meter QRP "record" was achieved defies all known existing laws of physics.  As you stated "our approach has to be scientific and fair for KP4KE" so why not explain to me what antenna known anywhere in the world is capable of developing this kind of gain.  The picture KP4KE has published on QRZ.com shows only a modest installation compared to that of Pedro, NP4A. At some point we can all benefit by knowing of an antenna design capable of developing 25db omni- directional gain on 160 meters if such an antenna actually exists.  You indeed have peaked my curiosity on this subject.
>>
>> Herb Schoenbohm, KV4FZ
>>
>> On 5/16/2015 12:56 PM, Felipe J. Hernández wrote:
>> Herb
>>
>> It is not about changing the op, in this case Eric is an acomplished Rf engineer and contester, with a degree of antenna design and lots of experience in terrain modeling.
>> So the perspective of an operator with that profile could shed significant light on the overal station performance, since certain QTH's have an advantage over others as well as other antennas also bring that extra db, that can create an overrall better performance of the station.
>>
>> If we are going to stay true to our intention,  our approach has to be scientific and fair for KP4KE.. the information about his previous operations is certainly valid and the committee
>> Im sure is considering it and has considered it, since I believe he has already been DQ for power claims. Im sure there will be enought ways to compare during the contest.
>>
>> How much these records make sense can easily be easily analized by looking at other zone 7 and 8 QRP stations in the past, but I think thats another discussion...
>> Lets wait if his commitment stands, he has failed his commitments before..
>>
>> Felipe
>> NP4Z
>>
>> El sábado, 16 de mayo de 2015, Herbert Schoenbohm <herbert.schoenbohm at gmail.com <mailto:herbert.schoenbohm at gmail.com>> escribió:
>> Felipe,
>>
>> I don't know how just changing the operator will prove anything at all.  What I know to a moral certainty is the comparison on KP4TE alleged QRP signal on ground wave and that of NP4A's full power signal from a great location with a superb antenna system at the same time.  This proved to me that KP4KE's claim of running "4.7 watts to  a double bazooka" when he established his published record that his QRP" entry was totally bogus.  The signal measurements made here of the two stations in comparison do not lie.
>>
>> Herb Schoenbohm, KV4FZ
>>
>> On 5/16/2015 8:03 AM, Felipe J. Hernández wrote:
>> To address Herb's comments:
>>
>> We had an honest conversation with kp4ke regarding the questions around his
>> qrp and other operations.
>> HE has  agreed to allow ERic Np3a to operate his station and to show the
>> world how his station performs in qrp, the official date set by him was on
>> wpx cw this year.
>>
>> Certainly we are anxious as you to make sure that these were all valid
>> entries, let's wait for wpx and see.
>>
>> 73's
>>
>> Felipe
>> NP4Z
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