Topband: Radio World; Noise Floor; Where do we go from here?

[CJ Johnson - WT2P]

How about companies stop making cheap crap to cut corners.

wt2p


On 12/18/2016 6:18 PM, Art Snapper wrote:
> Perhaps the 3801 isn't the only equipment being used. A quick search found
> this posting from three months ago.
>
> It references the AT&T 5268AC router. It appears to be made by Arris. This
> seems to be a voice gateway with wifi.
>
> https://forums.att.com/t5/AT-T-Internet-Equipment/Radio-frequency-interference-from-U-verse-equipment-on-Amateur/td-p/4888880
>
> Art NK8X
> ᐧ
>
> On Sun, Dec 18, 2016 at 6:53 PM, Guy Olinger K2AV <k2av.guy at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 2:38 PM, Art Snapper <art at nk8x.net> wrote:
>>> There are numerous reports on the web from hams experiencing RFI from
>> and to
>>> Uverse.  My main point is AT&T was complaining about receiving RFI,
>> without
>>> keeping their own house clean.
>>> 73,
>> I'm sorry, Art. Just can't go along with you here. Nothing personal.
>>
>> I spent some time looking up hams, RFI, Uverse, etc., based on your email.
>>
>> An awful lot of the reports I found are over five years old, They
>> predate discontinuance of the 2-Wire (brand name) model 3800 gateway
>> box that AT&T used heavily on early Uverse.
>>
>> That actually is a big clue, because it verifies what I've always
>> thought, that the 2-Wire 3800 model gateway box was the source of a
>> lot of their troubles. The changes between a 3800 and 3801 were
>> extensive, including a massive increase of buffering memory (10 or 20
>> to 1 increase?) to improve the built in error correction. There was a
>> long list that our AT&T mentor told me about, and their experience was
>> that the 3801 could soak up a lot of trouble out in the cables. The
>> drop-off in troubles attributable to the gateway is testimony to the
>> success of that project, as is my and my neighbor's experience with
>> the upgrade.
>>
>> The 3800 was severely susceptible to strong ham signals on 160/80/40,
>> with certain frequencies capable of making the gateway reboot with 20
>> watts on the antenna, much less 1.5 kW. My old problem of rebooting my
>> and my neighbor's 3800 gateway with QRO on 160 was finally eliminated
>> with the 3801, which had just come out, and at that time was available
>> in restricted quantities. This time they were not going to lead off
>> with mass deployment. And they were keenly interested in my case,
>> described below
>>
>> Several reports that looked current (2016 in email header) in
>> references I saw, in the text were actually referring to much older
>> events. One 2016 email was complaining about something the email
>> itself said occurred in 2001. I thought that was interesting, still
>> complaining about something that happened 15 years ago.
>>
>> The 2-Wire 3800 is no longer manufactured, the Uverse tech support
>> "book" now has a list of customer complaints that automatically get an
>> existing 3800 replaced, regardless. No clue as to how many have been
>> deprecated. Nobody on my block has one anymore. Read on.
>>
>> They have gone to a practice of using coax from the interface where
>> the cable comes up from underground to the gateway box. Twisted pair
>> is no longer used for that. With certain repair activities, they will
>> automatically replace older twisted pair from cable entrance to
>> gateway box with coax.
>>
>> AT&T has a group, headquartered in New Jersey that is a national group
>> specifically formed to deal with ham radio issues with Uverse. It's
>> director is a well-known east coast ham, and they have the authority
>> to force local repair groups to follow certain procedures in
>> ham-related cases, and mark certain customers for automatic referral
>> to their group.
>>
>> Anyone who has a current problem of this sort, should get in touch
>> with the ARRL RFI task force, who will do an entry level triage to
>> eliminate common issues, and then give cases that pass triage to the
>> AT&T group I am talking about.
>>
>> They were good with my problems, really good.
>>
>> They simply do not fit your description, and I do not see current
>> timeframe references on the internet to paint them with the colors you
>> are using.
>>
>> What good does it do us to push and haggle to get a major company to
>> do the right stuff, and when they do, keep on beating them up
>> regardless, bringing up things that have been fixed for years?
>>
>> In my case, 2010-2011...
>>
>> 1) I had problems with temporary main telephone cable routing due to
>> the construction of NC Toll 540 (extension of I-540) and its
>> intersection with US 64. At some point ALL the old cable was replaced.
>> Things were dicey with cables where they were moving roadways back and
>> forth to maintain traffic while bridges were being built and old
>> roadways dug up and replaced with heavier construction to interstate
>> specifications.
>>
>> 2) The 650 foot buried drop cables from the pole out on US 64 service
>> road to both my and my neighbor's house were replaced and reburied
>> using a different route. Since 1980, when my house was first built,
>> widening US 64 from 2 to divided 4 lane roadway, stuff related to the
>> 540 highway, including some mistaken contractor digs, and a couple
>> cable-melting lightning strikes, over time had put so many splices in
>> the drop, that the cable itself was way out of spec and a problem.
>>
>> 3) Neighbor's in-house wiring was cleaned up and rerouted to reduce
>> lengths and avoid some wear points.
>>
>> 4) The Gateway box in my house was moved to a spot recommended by AT&T
>> after walking around the house describing the ethernet lines. This
>> replaced a 120 foot ethernet run from cable entrance to gateway with a
>> scant 8 feet, with the gateway in my wife's office. The cable entrance
>> is directly underneath the window in her office. AT&T did most of the
>> crawlspace crawling around under the house, even though technically it
>> was my problem and my expense.
>>
>> 5) Telco Common mode current blocks designed for the frequencies and
>> cables in use were added at strategic points on the ethernet around
>> the house. They were better than my #31 material FT240 choke wraps
>> made after K9YC specifications. (That is NOT a dump on K9YC.)
>>
>> 6) 3800 gateways at both houses were swapped out for 3801's
>>
>> 7) These items were done one at a time followed by a retest at 1.825
>> watching changes in power levels necessary to reduce error correction
>> counts and reboots. We did this in the wee hours so we wouldn't knock
>> the neighbor off her IP-phone line and internet. She worked a lot
>> logged in to VPN from home and had a lot of conference calls.
>>
>> This stretched out procedure kept me at low power until all fixed, but
>> it DID allow evaluation of individual steps taken, which they were
>> very happy to have.
>>
>> If I live to be 100 and keep Uverse until my last gasp, there is no
>> way they will ever recoup the money they spent fixing my
>> extraordinary, ridiculous case from the monthly Uverse bill. But they
>> did get a bunch of proven facts to use on procedures in their "book"
>> for these kinds of troubles.
>>
>> Again, anyone having RFI trouble either way with an AT&T Uverse
>> device, getting confused looks from local tech people who don't know
>> what to do, should go via the ARRL RFI task force.
>>
>> 73, and a great holiday season to all.
>>
>> Guy K2AV
>>
> _________________
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