Topband: K5P in Zone 14
Doug Turnbull
turnbull at net1.ie
Sat Jan 16 12:31:58 EST 2016
Dear OMs,
Please do not think I am criticizing the team. So far at 17:27 GMT on
Jan16 there has only been one 160M QSO with zone 14 which includes EI, G, DL
etc. The propagation gods are not favouring us at all. K5P is a hard
reach on most bands and once you go away from 17 through 40 meters there are
literally only about five QSOs total on the other bands.
Some are losing their reason and making poor comments which reflect
badly on both them and their nations. We as a hobby need to do better in
recognizing the troubles of the DXpedition.
73 Doug EI2CN
PS The comments about reception in the States are most interesting.
-----Original Message-----
From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of
topband-request at contesting.com
Sent: 16 January 2016 17:00
To: topband at contesting.com
Subject: Topband Digest, Vol 157, Issue 35
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: strange propagation (Roger D Johnson)
2. K5P 160m run (KD8RQE at aol.com)
3. Re: K5P 160m run (Art Snapper)
4. 160m monoband amp (was strange propagation) (Louis Parascondola)
5. Re: K5P 160m run (Tim Shoppa)
6. Asia lowband contest right now? (Tim Shoppa)
7. Re: FCC regulations circa 1960's (John Frazier)
8. Re: strange propagation (kolson at rcn.com)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2016 09:08:29 -0500
From: Roger D Johnson <n1rj at roadrunner.com>
To: Top Band Reflector <topband at contesting.com>
Subject: Re: Topband: strange propagation
Message-ID: <569A4EDD.8000803 at roadrunner.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Sounds like someone retreating to his Homogenous Cluster where everyone
agrees with him.
Bye, Tom
On 1/16/2016 8:37 AM, Tom W8JI wrote:
> This reflector has gone down the toilet with personal BS that serves no
> purpose except to pick fights.
>
> After 20 years, I'm leaving it.It sure went down the tubes.
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Louis Parascondola via Topband"
> <topband at contesting.com>
> To: <n1rj at roadrunner.com>; <topband at contesting.com>
> Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2016 7:24 AM
> Subject: Re: Topband: strange propagation
>
>
>> That was not nice.
>>
>>
>> Lou W1QJ
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Roger D Johnson <n1rj at roadrunner.com>
>> To: topband <topband at contesting.com>
>> Sent: Sat, Jan 16, 2016 7:09 am
>> Subject: Re: Topband: strange propagation
>>
>>
>> Sounds a lot like the RHR folks!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> A friend of mine at the Georgia State Public Service Training Center
(right
>>> down my street) says this social trend, made pandemic through Internet,
has
>>> even been assigned a name now. It is called Homogeneous Clustering. This
is
>>> where groups of people cluster together and invent their own reality,
feed off
>>> each other's emotions, and dismiss anyone outside their group as a
problem and
>>> dishonest.
>>>
>>>
>>> 73 Tom
>>> _________________
>>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>>
>> _________________
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>
>> _________________
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>
>>
>> -----
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 2016.0.7294 / Virus Database: 4489/11412 - Release Date:
01/16/16
>>
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2016 10:09:55 -0500
From: KD8RQE at aol.com
To: topband at contesting.com
Subject: Topband: K5P 160m run
Message-ID: <4a02bd.30560bab.43cbb743 at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
What a run K5P has had on 160 the last 2 nights! I run an inverted L with
the vertical portion up 65" and 90 radials of which 60 are 120'. It's not
a bad Tx ant, but not so hot on Rx, and I need a bit better Wx to put up
the Hi-Z array I bought. I usually hear stations in the pacific for 30- 60
min before my sunrise here in the black hole of DX in southern Michigan and
they are only workable for 15-30 min. These guys were workable for hours
prior to my sunrise (worked them @ 0530 EST, 1030Z, 2.5h before sunrise,
550
W) and I heard them for an hour after when most stations fade within
minutes after sunrise. Impressive.
Mike KD8RQE
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2016 10:25:29 -0500
From: Art Snapper <art at nk8x.net>
To: KD8RQE at aol.com
Cc: 160 <topband at contesting.com>
Subject: Re: Topband: K5P 160m run
Message-ID:
<CAH6Jzym4rTdwwiK=5M2Trgafkz4WESkcnoGi+_g4u0JF=c_VoA at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
I was surprised how much stronger they are here on TB than on 80.
Art NK8X
?
On Sat, Jan 16, 2016 at 10:09 AM, Mike via Topband <topband at contesting.com>
wrote:
> What a run K5P has had on 160 the last 2 nights! I run an inverted L
with
> the vertical portion up 65" and 90 radials of which 60 are 120'. It's
not
> a bad Tx ant, but not so hot on Rx, and I need a bit better Wx to put up
> the Hi-Z array I bought. I usually hear stations in the pacific for 30-
> 60
> min before my sunrise here in the black hole of DX in southern Michigan
> and
> they are only workable for 15-30 min. These guys were workable for hours
> prior to my sunrise (worked them @ 0530 EST, 1030Z, 2.5h before sunrise,
> 550
> W) and I heard them for an hour after when most stations fade within
> minutes after sunrise. Impressive.
>
> Mike KD8RQE
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2016 10:31:26 -0500
From: Louis Parascondola <gudguyham at aol.com>
To: topband at contesting.com
Subject: Topband: 160m monoband amp (was strange propagation)
Message-ID: <1524b100204-65c6-1027b at webprd-m66.mail.aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
I came to the group to try to pick up pointers on improving my 160 meter
experience. In the short two weeks I have been here I have so much
information to digest. Especially with receiving antennas, which in my
short time here has proven to be "the secret weapon". If you can't hear
them you can't work them. Since I know little to nothing about these
antennas I can't offer any help to anyone. I am usually one that likes to
contribute but I certainly can't contribute a single thing about these types
of antennas and feedlines. So I can only do the next best thing. I'd like
to share my experience with taking a couple of flea market basket case amps
that I converted to mono band 160 meter amps with some surprising results!!
I am one that usually looks for the stuff at hamfests that doesn't work
rather than some expensive stuff that I would gamble my money on. So in the
course of many years of perusing hamfests I picked up some basket case amps.
Two specifically that come
to mind are a well beat up and chopped up Heathkit SB-200 and a Dentron
Clipperton L, They had missing band switches and tank circuits chopped for
CB or whatever. I know that many hams don't use amplifiers on the higher HF
frequencies, but some many consider that the extra power could be of benefit
on 160. So I decided to do a conversion on the other end of the spectrum
from 6 meters. I started out with the SB-200 and gutted it out completely
and started with a clean slate. Cleaned up the years of crude and went to
work on a mono band 160 meter amp. I scrounged all the parts from other
amps that had been taken apart for various reasons. The first thing I did
was to upsize the filament choke with a higher inductance, a unit from an
old SB-1000 I believe fit nicely. A typical unit found in an AL-80B can be
bought direct from Ameritron pretty cheap. One of the things I found in
the junk box was an nice heavy duty toroid that came from a Viewstar PT-2500
amp. I deci
ded to use this to make a toroid tank circuit inductor instead of a open
air coil to reduce the overall size. Using the guidelines in the handbook I
started at a tank inductor value that was close to calculation. I rewound a
coil on the toroid core and measured it. It was very close to calculation
so I installed it. I then worked up pi-net input circuit using an
adjustable coil like in the original SB-200 and some mica caps. I used
values for both inductor and caps (to begin with) from some of the
commercially made amps. I put this all together and gave it a whirl to see
where I was at. To my surprise I was pretty much in the ballpark. A bit of
tweaking on the input circuit and I soon had a nice flat input swr. In amp
building the input circuit should be just as important as the tank circuit.
The more efficient the input circuit the better the amp will perform power
wise. This seems to be a place where many do not spend enough time on.
Once I got the input circ
uit perfect I plotted the output across the band and adjusted the tank coil
for best results on the lower end of 160 meters. When I tweaked it all up I
was rather surprised as to the performance. The SB-200 runs a pair of 572B
tubes and like most thoriated tungsten tubes the limiting factor is grid
current, well that could be said for just about any transmitting tube,
anyhow loading the amp up into a dummy load and using the "white area" on
the SB-200 meter as a guideline which relates to 200ma, I drove the amp and
topped off the power right on the edge of the white line. The power output
was an honest 900 watts. You have to understand that when you remove all
the switching and compromise from a multiband amp and create a mono band
amp, you increase the efficiency quite a bit, as can easily be seen here. I
did a "key down" test for about 20 seconds straight and the tubes did not
show any appreciable overheating of the anode. This usually proves that the
losses are mini
mal and the anode is giving off its power to the load all of which points
to a good tank circuit. Trying to load into an improper load is quickly
indicated by rapid anode heat, hence very red anode color. I neglected to
mention that I did pad the load and tune caps using values from the handbook
to begin with and then tweaking so that I had sufficient travel on each
variable cap to compensate for varying loads. Running this amp at 800 watts
would be a snap and for simply calling in pile ups full power shouldn't be a
problem. Now as for the Clippetron L, I did a 160 conversion on that one
also. On this one I wanted to try an air wound coil, so I followed the same
procedure as the SB-200 for calculations and put together an input circuit
as before, once again using a starting point of a similar amp running 4 572B
tubes The AL-572B would be what I probably used to start. I wound an air
wound coil using heavy duty #10 enamel wire with the inductance I got from
the handbo
ok and gave it a whirl. With some tweaking I got the amp to respond very
well to input power. Of course as before, I did pad the load and tune caps
using door knob caps. And again adjusted those for enough variable cap to
compensate for various loads. Once I had it adjusted well enough I tested
it with maximum drive I could get from my 100 watt driver radio. At 100
watts of drive I was getting 1500 watts output.and the plate current was
less than 4 tubes can safely handle. 4 of these 572B tubes can safely
handle 1amp of current. I was at 800 mills with the 100 watts of drive, I
am certain if I had more drive I could get more and still be in limits.
Although the Clipperton does NOT have a grid meter I am certain that if the
amp is properly loaded the grid current would not exceed 400 mills. But
suffice to say we now have a legal limit amp here at dirt cheap flea market
prices. I also gave this amp the "key down" test. On this amp I did a key
down test for 30 second
s and again no signs of overheating at all. So the next time you see a
distressed one of these amps and you are one that would like a bit extra
power on 160 here is a cheap way to get it. I'd be happy to give you the
design parameters for each amp.
73 Lou
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2016 10:32:27 -0500
From: Tim Shoppa <tshoppa at gmail.com>
To: Art Snapper <art at nk8x.net>
Cc: KD8RQE at aol.com, 160 <topband at contesting.com>
Subject: Re: Topband: K5P 160m run
Message-ID:
<CAJ_qRvYzst-P3AOJrjfetwZJpAuXKfCrrKmNF+DzrjKvWh5erA at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
They had huge signal on 160M here in W3 last night.
On 80M... my unconfirmed suspicion is that they have one ?Battle Creek
Special? and maybe one ?lowband receive system?, and cannot activate both
160M and 80M simultaneously with the good stuff.
Right now the stats in clublog say they 120 in zone 3 on 160M, but only 23
in zone 3 on 80M.
They certainly had the good stuff on 160M last night! Their signal was
entirely comparable to that E5 activation in October on that first
exceptional morning.
Tim N3QE
On Sat, Jan 16, 2016 at 10:25 AM, Art Snapper <art at nk8x.net> wrote:
> I was surprised how much stronger they are here on TB than on 80.
>
> Art NK8X
>
> ?
>
> On Sat, Jan 16, 2016 at 10:09 AM, Mike via Topband <topband at contesting.com
> >
> wrote:
>
> > What a run K5P has had on 160 the last 2 nights! I run an inverted L
> with
> > the vertical portion up 65" and 90 radials of which 60 are 120'. It's
> not
> > a bad Tx ant, but not so hot on Rx, and I need a bit better Wx to put up
> > the Hi-Z array I bought. I usually hear stations in the pacific for
30-
> > 60
> > min before my sunrise here in the black hole of DX in southern Michigan
> > and
> > they are only workable for 15-30 min. These guys were workable for
> hours
> > prior to my sunrise (worked them @ 0530 EST, 1030Z, 2.5h before
sunrise,
> > 550
> > W) and I heard them for an hour after when most stations fade within
> > minutes after sunrise. Impressive.
> >
> > Mike KD8RQE
> > _________________
> > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> >
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2016 10:50:54 -0500
From: Tim Shoppa <tshoppa at gmail.com>
To: topBand List <topband at contesting.com>
Subject: Topband: Asia lowband contest right now?
Message-ID:
<CAJ_qRvYZM_ppxpzQz+4p362s_7HwDsM7XHUNe0ssdztDP7Zmjw at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Is there some sort of Asiatic Russia/Siberian/??? contest going on with
160M and 80M right now? Obviously too late for me to hear anything but I
see a huge number and variety of spots on the bandmap.
Tim N3QE
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2016 10:16:41 -0600
From: John Frazier <fraz1 at bellsouth.net>
To: topband at contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: FCC regulations circa 1960's
Message-ID: <569A6CE9.20108 at bellsouth.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Tom....
I /think/ I understand your point and question. If I recall, didn't we
have to send our call as a / (stroke) suffix after the lower class
call? That's what I recall anyway. Anyone else with better memory, jump in.
73 John W4II
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2016 11:23:11 -0500 (EST)
From: kolson at rcn.com
To: John Frazier <fraz1 at bellsouth.net>
Cc: topband at contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: strange propagation
Message-ID: <1974206577.172346327.1452961391572.JavaMail.root at rcn.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
I would see this as analo g ou s to what happened in contesting. Originally,
you could use 2 meter spotting nets to help "find" ?multipliers, no problem.
Eventually, f olks in less populated areas complained that this was
disadvantageous to them and the contest sponso rs decided that use of these
"nets" put you in multi-op category (it would say in the listing "K3OX +
net"). O nce computer technology became mature enough,?"assisted"
operating?became possible using computer technology alone and a decision had
to be made as to the proper disposition of this practice .?The computer
didn't technically make you "multi-op", but it was an advantage over the
fellows who operated without this benefit, so the "assisted" category was
created. Soon operating assisted class was an accepted thing with no more or
less "glory" than any other class.
So here's a proposal; maybe hav ing two cate gorie s, a DXCC "bareback" (all
QSO's made from a station within, say, 200 miles of the operator's licensed
address) and "unlimited" (any legal?QSO's according to current DXCC rules)
would be a reasonable accommodation. If you moved outside the miles limit,
you would ?have to decide whether to stay " bareback" and start?another DXCC
from your new QTH?or transition to "unlimited" and carry over your previous
credits. Current DXCC accounts would have to declare which category their
previous operations conformed to .
For a hot minute, the "bareback" category might be seen as more prestigious,
but eventually that would fade like the contest categories have faded. End
of problem. Except to the ARRL which would have to administer all this, hi
hi.
73 Kevin K3OX
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Frazier" <fraz1 at bellsouth.net>
To: topband at contesting.com
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2016 2:22:53 PM
Subject: Re: Topband: strange propagation
Well......many of us /have/ worked to change the rules to reflect the
use of remote operations. In FACT, the ARRL DX Advisory Committee
recommended to the ARRL BOD that a distance limit be included in the
rule. The BOD rejected that recommendation despite the FACT that the
members of the BOD actually appoint the members to the DXAC. So, they
appoint members and totally ignore or reject their recommendation.
Also, even after my post, no one has offered a position on why a
separate DXCC award for using remote is unfair or unacceptable. All we
ever hear is "it's legal" or "you object to technology", or "you're
whiners". We understand it is perfectly legal, and we embrace new
technology. We simply have an opinion that honestly differs from yours.
Tom is correct in that the DXCC Award was diminished over the years do
to the location rule change(s). But, the number of super stations now
(and in the future) available for rent and the number of folks using it
will dilute the Award many times more than the previous changes. It begs
for a separate award.
73 John W4II
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