Topband: Topband Digest, Vol 157, Issue 42

Mon Jan 18 13:28:02 EST 2016

Joe

I will run your checks today and call in AM.  I see your number at end of
message.

Jim

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Sent: Monday, January 18, 2016 9:00 AM
To: topband at contesting.com
Subject: Topband Digest, Vol 157, Issue 42

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: K5P good job ! (Jim Brown)
   2. Re: K5P good job ! (Louis Parascondola)
   3. Re: Neutralizing your 833As (Mike Waters)
   4. Re: Any way to check isolation transformer for FCP (Andy - YL2QN)
   5. Re: FCC regulations (Roger D Johnson)
   6. 160 meters late 1940's- early 1950's ( K1FZ-Bruce )
   7. Re: K5P good job ! (mstangelo at comcast.net)
   8. Alaska on top band this morning (Louis Parascondola)
   9. Re: K5P good job ! (Hank Garretson)
  10. Re: K5P good job ! (Roger D Johnson)
  11. Re: K5P good job ! (Doug Renwick)
  12. Re: K5P good job ! (Don Kirk)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2016 18:28:44 -0800
From: Jim Brown <jim at audiosystemsgroup.com>
To: topband at contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: K5P good job !
Message-ID: <569C4DDC.5080002 at audiosystemsgroup.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed

On Sun,1/17/2016 6:02 PM, Louis Parascondola via Topband wrote:
> The guy knows me and would probably me mad if I gave him up. I'm sure you
understand.

Of course. But there are times when we need the courage to take a stand. 
A bully is a bully.

73, Jim K9YC

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2016 22:16:54 -0500
From: Louis Parascondola <gudguyham at aol.com>
To: jim at audiosystemsgroup.com, topband at contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: K5P good job !
Message-ID: <15252bc3dda-1b73-1347f at webprd-m51.mail.aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

Of course depending on the band you may not hear him, but he's on every band
from 160 to 6 meters.  I'm not complaining and I didn't start the thread, I
just said I knew someone that uses the ploy and it usually works as he
generally gets in ahead of me who waits patiently.  If I don't get in se LA
vie.  Lou W1QJ

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail

-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Brown <jim at audiosystemsgroup.com>
To: topband <topband at contesting.com>
Sent: Sun, Jan 17, 2016 09:29 PM
Subject: Re: Topband: K5P good job !

On Sun,1/17/2016 6:02 PM, Louis Parascondola via Topband wrote:
> The guy knows me and would probably me mad if I gave him up. I'm sure you
understand.

Of course. But there are times when we need the courage to take a stand. 
A bully is a bully.

73, Jim K9YC
_________________
Topband Reflector Archives - <a href="http://www.contesting.com/_topband"
target="_blank">http://www.contesting.com/_topband</a>

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2016 21:50:08 -0600
From: Mike Waters <mikewate at gmail.com>
To: Tree <tree at kkn.net>
Cc: Dave Olean <k1whs at metrocast.net>, topband <topband at contesting.com>
Subject: Re: Topband: Neutralizing your 833As
Message-ID:
	<CA+FxYXjgVORCoj1LwTZ7XO_BQjHQLUfKsjawmizODMqPF9zeRQ at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

No problem, Tree. I fully agree, and your point is very well taken. Thanks.
(And thanks to Dave and everyone else who offered advice!)

I really don't have the time to start a thread on the amps reflector right
now (but I'd like to soon).

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com

On Sun, Jan 17, 2016 at 8:20 PM, Tree <tree at kkn.net> wrote:

> This sounds like a topic for the Amps reflector - thanks!!
>
> Tree N6TR
>
> On Sun, Jan 17, 2016 at 5:02 PM, Mike Waters <mikewate at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Dave,
>>
>> Thanks for the advice! What you describe below is an improved version 
>> of what I had planned to do.
>>
>> I'm likely over-thinking this. Much ado about nothing, as the old 
>> saying goes. I've been accused of doing that before on this amp 
>> project (and he was right. :-)  Let me elaborate a little on what my
concern is.
>>
>> I don't think I ever drew a schematic of the PA grid and plate 
>> circuits, but I'll try and describe the important details, leaving 
>> out things like the grid biasing arrangement, RF chokes, DC blocking 
>> capacitors, the
>> TO-220
>> swamping resistor string, circuit protection, etc.).
>>
>> 1. There is no tuned grid circuit. (If there was, it would be simple 
>> to
>> neutralize!)
>> 2. There's a 200 ohm 100w non-inductive swamping resistor between the 
>> grid and ground.
>> 3. From the grid to ground is the 200 ohm secondary of the input 
>> transformer.
>> 4. The input is the 50 ohm primary of that transformer.
>>
>> Here's the idea I had in mind, good or bad: Add a tertiary (third) 
>> winding to that input matching transformer --grounded at one end-- to 
>> obtain the voltage for neutralizing. The other end would be in series 
>> with an air variable (already have that)* and a fixed capacitor 
>> connected directly to the anodes.
>>
>> Maybe I'm over-thinking this, but what I expect is too much or too 
>> little feedback voltage
>>
>> *Photos of the neut cap is at
>> www.w0btu.com/files/misc/833C_linear_amplifier/?C=M;O=D
>> neut-cap_5445.JPG and neut-cap_5444.JPG
>>
>> The reason for the fixed capacitor between the anodes and the 
>> variable capacitor I mentioned was to reduce the chances of the air 
>> variable arcing over, which would be catastrophic. That concept is
>>
>> 73, Mike
>> www.w0btu.com
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 17, 2016 at 12:20 PM, Dave Olean <k1whs at metrocast.net> wrote:
>>
>> > Hi Mike
>> >    You need a signal generator and a crystal detector to sniff in 
>> > that amp. Feed a low level signal in with the filaments on but HV 
>> > off and see how much RF leaks thru to the output connector, then 
>> > mess around with neutralization schemes until the RF drops way 
>> > down. I do that all the
>> time
>> > and it works great. I have neutralized a six meter KW with a 
>> > 4CX1000A, a bunch of 4CX 250B amps and driver amps, etc. It never 
>> > failed. Shoot for
>> 10
>> > dB or more attenuation than the tube can produce and it should work FB.
>> > The nice part is no high voltage to worry about. You can get the 
>> > neutralizing wire or the cap set for a perfect null at your 
>> > frequency pretty fast. I used to use a signal generator wiyth an HP 
>> > 415E VSWR indicator. Put 1000 Hz audio modulation on the signal 
>> > generator and you
>> can
>> > read attenuation right off the meter on the 415.. Slick!  Now I 
>> > have two port a vector network analyzer, so the HP 415 sits on the 
>> > shelf, but
>> either
>> > method is quick.
>> >
>> > [snip]
>> >
>> > Maybe you would let me pick your brain sometime about my 
>> > swamped-grid
>> >> dual-833C legal limit amp. It works fine on 160 and 80, but it 
>> >> needs neutralizing if it's going to be stable on 40 (and work at all
on 20).
>> I
>> >> have a plan to neutralize it using a tertiary winding on the input 
>> >> transformer, but I foresee a lot of trial and error. But I don't 
>> >> have
>> time
>> >> to work on that right now.
>> >>
>> >> I wasn't even sure if two of those triodes in parallel would even 
>> >> work, so I didn't spend a lot of time making it look pretty.
>> >> www.w0btu.com/833C_linear_amplifier.html
>> >>
>> >
>> _________________
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>
>
>

------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2016 11:52:00 +0200
From: Andy - YL2QN <yl2qn.andy at gmail.com>
To: topband at contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Any way to check isolation transformer for FCP
Message-ID:
	<CAMyVpwZYOz=US4Q2iE-j6ECS-5jXJj+qHGt3rfW4tsmcCEn3jw at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Guido,

>>> It sounds strange, because to have 45,6 uH with 20 turns the Al 
>>> should be
1140.

Thanks a lot. Sure I was wrong with inductance.
For 20 turns:
T-300A-2 AL=228, L=9.12uH
T-300-2   AL=114, L=4.56uH

To get same inductance on T-300-2 need to have 28T. But coupling will
between primary and secondary will be changed. How much it critical ?

Regards,
Andy - YL2QN

------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2016 06:32:14 -0500
From: Roger D Johnson <n1rj at roadrunner.com>
To: topband at contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: FCC regulations
Message-ID: <569CCD3E.50209 at roadrunner.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

It's apparent that some people have a very "creative" way of interpreting
FCC regulations. If you want to operate YOUR station within the law, read
and understand Part 97. Do NOT believe what anyone tells you. They are
usually WRONG!

73, Roger

------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2016 09:19:39 -0500
From: " K1FZ-Bruce " <k1fz at myfairpoint.net>
To: topband at contesting.com
Subject: Topband: 160 meters late 1940's- early 1950's
Message-ID: <20160118091939.ohcb8941a8s40w4w at webmail.myfairpoint.net>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset=UTF-8

Any old timers ever work ?? W1MDG Earl E. Babbidge, Dark Harbor, Maine? in
the late 1940's,? early 1950's on 160 meters.???
?
As a kid in school at the time, I did errands for W1KNJ in Belfast who was a
semi-invalid, in return I received code practice. As i improved he put me at
his key for the weekly schedule with W1MDG. 
?
Just wondering,
?
73
Bruce-K1FZ
?
www.qsl.net/k1fz/beverage_antenna.html
?
?
?
?

------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2016 15:00:04 +0000 (UTC)
From: mstangelo at comcast.net
To: jim at audiosystemsgroup.com, topband at contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: K5P good job !
Message-ID:
	<916659692.7779809.1453129204951.JavaMail.zimbra at comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

When someone is doing something wrong we should not "out" or embarrass them.

You should try to settle the situation offline without leaving any bad
feelings.

If you know the offender you should discuss it with him (or her) person to
person. Be diplomatic.

Don't lecture to them, discuss it with them. You have noticed they are doing
something which interferes with good operating practices and also mention
that other listeners have noted the fact. 

If you cannot contact the person you can mention the offense on a contesting
or DX'ing forum such as this

I find it is better to show them the way.

Mike N2MS 

----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Brown <jim at audiosystemsgroup.com>
To: topband at contesting.com
Sent: Mon, 18 Jan 2016 01:54:50 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: Re: Topband: K5P good job !

On Sun,1/17/2016 1:26 PM, Louis Parascondola via Topband wrote:
> I'd rather not say, I'm just citing that the ploy works.

When those who observe and are able to identify bad behavior are unwilling
to "out" the bad guys, they keep on doing it.

73, Jim K9YC
_________________

------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2016 10:11:08 -0500
From: Louis Parascondola <gudguyham at aol.com>
To: topband at contesting.com
Subject: Topband: Alaska on top band this morning
Message-ID: <152554a22b3-65c6-13e28 at webprd-m66.mail.aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

Guys, did anybody work Joe WL7E this morning?  he said he worked all across
the US.  I was too engulfed with K5P on 80 meters, which BTW he peaked
nicely at around 7:30 local time and he worked me and Gary,KA1J one right
after another.  Before that peak no luck.  We lucked out and had a short
pipeline out there at those few minutes around 7:30.

------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2016 07:14:22 -0800
From: Hank Garretson <w6sx at arrl.net>
To: topband at contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: K5P good job !
Message-ID:
	<CABD27Uki4JQ79vc1VEMSe6TSiFpBDHb9Jb0gTei+ZOfKD1F44A at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Good advice. I suggest taking it a step farther.

It is the rare ham who takes criticism, even constructive, well. So,...

Privately suggest to them how doing it differently will increase their fun,
will increase their chances of making the QSO. Suggest listening a bit.
Suggest timing. Etcetera. Help them be better and use the carrot of better
results and more fun.

Ham Exuberantly,

Hank, W6SX

On Mon, Jan 18, 2016 at 7:00 AM, <mstangelo at comcast.net> wrote:

>
> When someone is doing something wrong we should not "out" or embarrass 
> them.
>
> You should try to settle the situation offline without leaving any bad 
> feelings.
>
> If you know the offender you should discuss it with him (or her) 
> person to person. Be diplomatic.
>
> Don't lecture to them, discuss it with them. You have noticed they are 
> doing something which interferes with good operating practices and 
> also mention that other listeners have noted the fact.
>
> If you cannot contact the person you can mention the offense on a 
> contesting or DX'ing forum such as this
>
> I find it is better to show them the way.
>
> Mike N2MS
>

------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2016 10:36:02 -0500
From: Roger D Johnson <n1rj at roadrunner.com>
To: topband at contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: K5P good job !
Message-ID: <569D0662.2080100 at roadrunner.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

The big problem is that this "system" works! It's simple statistics. The
more times you send your call, the better chance of the DX picking it out of
a pileup.

I don't think the people that do this give a rats behind if they're calling
on top of someone else. They are like people who cut in line ahead of you.
It's all about them!

73, Roger

On 1/18/2016 10:00 AM, mstangelo at comcast.net wrote:
>
> When someone is doing something wrong we should not "out" or embarrass
them.
>
> You should try to settle the situation offline without leaving any bad
feelings.
>
> If you know the offender you should discuss it with him (or her) person to
person. Be diplomatic.
>
> Don't lecture to them, discuss it with them. You have noticed they are
doing something which interferes with good operating practices and also
mention that other listeners have noted the fact.
>
> If you cannot contact the person you can mention the offense on a 
> contesting or DX'ing forum such as this
>
> I find it is better to show them the way.
>
> Mike N2MS
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

Message: 11
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2016 09:46:48 -0600
From: "Doug Renwick" <ve5ra at sasktel.net>
To: "'Hank Garretson'" <w6sx at arrl.net>, <topband at contesting.com>
Subject: Re: Topband: K5P good job !
Message-ID: <411323853CB6471C8B4D77C4B468B564 at DOUG8PC>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"

Reminds me of our 'catch and release' justice? system.

Doug/VE5RA

I wasn't born in Saskatchewan, but I got here as soon as I could.

-----Original Message-----

Good advice. I suggest taking it a step farther.

It is the rare ham who takes criticism, even constructive, well. So,...

Privately suggest to them how doing it differently will increase their fun,
will increase their chances of making the QSO. Suggest listening a bit.
Suggest timing. Etcetera. Help them be better and use the carrot of better
results and more fun.

Ham Exuberantly,

Hank, W6SX

On Mon, Jan 18, 2016 at 7:00 AM, <mstangelo at comcast.net> wrote:

>
> When someone is doing something wrong we should not "out" or embarrass 
> them.
>
> You should try to settle the situation offline without leaving any bad 
> feelings.
>
> If you know the offender you should discuss it with him (or her) 
> person to person. Be diplomatic.
>
> Don't lecture to them, discuss it with them. You have noticed they are 
> doing something which interferes with good operating practices and 
> also mention that other listeners have noted the fact.
>
> If you cannot contact the person you can mention the offense on a 
> contesting or DX'ing forum such as this
>
> I find it is better to show them the way.
>
> Mike N2MS
>
_________________
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

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------------------------------

Message: 12
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2016 11:38:05 -0500
From: Don Kirk <wd8dsb at gmail.com>
To: Roger D Johnson <n1rj at roadrunner.com>
Cc: topband <topband at contesting.com>
Subject: Re: Topband: K5P good job !
Message-ID:
	<CAKtW65esCwpZ96dfBDKD-UYJNxChhOXAp4Jszj1VnHxz-nxSyA at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

I was holding back on posting a comment on this topic of continuous calling
(I actually typed out a response but deleted it twice yesterday) but thought
I would finally hit the send key in an attempt to should shed some light on
part of the problem as well as a partial solution (not a complete solution
as there are many different reasons for the problem which includes deep
fading, as well as just being totally clueless, desperate, etc).

As a W1AW/9 centennial station and operator (all CW), I found the biggest
cure for the problem was sending the call sign of the station I picked out
of the pile up 2 times.  My best guess was that operators that have longer
calls (like myself), and/or send slow, or run "semi break in" often don't
hear the DXpedition station respond to someone else because they are still
sending (or muted), and this gets worse when everyone gets out of sync (they
would really get out of sync from each other when I could not pick out even
a partial call the first time around and this caused stations to start
repeating their calls in hopes of being the "chosen one", etc.).  I would
not always use the "sending calls two times" technique, but when the problem
started to impact my receive capabilities (or just drove me nuts), I would
implement this technique with great success.

I've heard a few DXpedition operators on 160 meters use the "sending calls
two times" technique under certain conditions (but not often), and the
results are normally very impressive.  This technique is not often discussed
(as far as I know), and probably frowned upon by some who might think it
slows things down, but I certainly found this technique useful (and often
the most efficient method).

Just some thoughts from my end based on my experience last year.

73,
Don (wd8dsb)

On Mon, Jan 18, 2016 at 10:36 AM, Roger D Johnson <n1rj at roadrunner.com>
wrote:

> The big problem is that this "system" works! It's simple statistics. 
> The more times you send your call, the better chance of the DX picking 
> it out of a pileup.
>
> I don't think the people that do this give a rats behind if they're 
> calling on top of someone else. They are like people who cut in line 
> ahead of you. It's all about them!
>
> 73, Roger
>
>
> On 1/18/2016 10:00 AM, mstangelo at comcast.net wrote:
>
>>
>> When someone is doing something wrong we should not "out" or 
>> embarrass them.
>>
>> You should try to settle the situation offline without leaving any 
>> bad feelings.
>>
>> If you know the offender you should discuss it with him (or her) 
>> person to person. Be diplomatic.
>>
>> Don't lecture to them, discuss it with them. You have noticed they 
>> are doing something which interferes with good operating practices 
>> and also mention that other listeners have noted the fact.
>>
>> If you cannot contact the person you can mention the offense on a 
>> contesting or DX'ing forum such as this
>>
>> I find it is better to show them the way.
>>
>> Mike N2MS
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>

------------------------------

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------------------------------

End of Topband Digest, Vol 157, Issue 42
****************************************