Topband: 160 Power

Mon Mar 20 12:25:54 EDT 2017

In contests I call a lot of guys barefoot first and kick on the amp as needed. Problem is usually a guy running full power can be heard out here but has an S-8 noise level and can't hear 100W..Yes you can work a lot of DX with low power, but as an ex-QRP club member I learned life if too short, 9 to go for DXCC on 160 and sweating it. 
5U and TU can't hear me thru the pile up but I'll bet they can copy if there was nobody else on.
Tried JT65 and it seems CW work also work when it works.Bottom line is you typically need power on the low bands to overcome the other guys noise. Rick N6PE======================================================================
There are more planes in the ocean than submarines in the sky

      From: "topband-request at contesting.com" <topband-request at contesting.com>
 To: topband at contesting.com 
 Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 9:11 AM
 Subject: Topband Digest, Vol 171, Issue 17

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Today's Topics:

  1. Digital modes on TB and power required (Jim Jim)
  2. Re: Digital modes on TB and power required (wb6rse1 at mac.com)
  3. Re: Digital modes on TB and power required (HAROLD SMITH JR)
  4. Re: Digital modes on TB and power required (Mike Waters)
  5. Re: JT65 Power and bandwidth (Rob Atkinson)

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Message: 1
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2017 21:14:12 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jim Jim <wa3mej at comcast.net>
To: List-Topband <topband at contesting.com>
Subject: Topband: Digital modes on TB and power required
Message-ID: <1176951029.186017.1489972452731 at connect.xfinity.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Guys,

First of all in many cases the reason we need really high power on any mode is because other hams on the band are using it and they cover us up... so it is mine is bigger than yours.  Now to be fair that is not always the case I know but it happens far too much.  Since we are in the years of the bottom of the solar cycle we actually may need more power.  Also you can not compare doing meteor scatter or EME work with HF work.  There you absolutely need power unless you have stacked 18 element beams or something.  But I have seen very very few instances when 50 watts wont get the job done EVEN on 160M.  and NO I don't run my RX with a wide open front end I have an IC 7300 and I trim my RX and TX filters to a reasonable width based on the mode I am running.  Common sense (and good engineering principals) teach you if you cut the RX bandwidth the signal goes up in strength. You have only to try that with CW to learn that.    and for those of you that don't understand the princip
 al of RX front end overload try having a neighbor 4 miles away as the crow files who is trying to call the same DX you are wanting to work he can be half a kHz away and still give you problems even with a good RX. Now you guys with the really big antennas can mitigate some of this but us little pistols have only once choice ... wait until you neighbor is done.  And to be neighborly both my neighbor and I do just that.  Something to also consider when you run any digital mode even RTTY and you do it through a sound card you should not be drawing ANY.. not even a little ALC and if you do you not only will make it hard for others to copy you but you could easily cause all kinds of splatter on the band, you have only to listen to some to the signal on 40 and 20 meters to see this.

I am not saying any of this to flame or inflame anyone it is simply the way it is. High power is RARELY necessary on the lower bands.

Doubt me?  Set your transceiver up on WSPR and set it to 20w  and find out.  When TB was open I was heard all over the world with that power .. and yes even VK.  If all of this is not convincing then follow the FCC rules .. use only the power necessary to do that job

Oh by the way many of these digital modes are high duty cycle and could do damage to your transceiver. 

Jim

On the higher bands, low power generally gets the job done. But digital
folks on 160 need to rethink a few things. Ideally, we should ALL just bump
our output up to 100 watts. But that's just not gonna happen.  ?

I don't have the time right now to add more, but I hope this thread nets
some useful suggestions to minimize QRN in the 160m digital portion.

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com http://www.w0btu.com/

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Message: 2
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2017 18:42:18 -0700
From: wb6rse1 at mac.com
To: Top Band List List <topband at contesting.com>
Subject: Re: Topband: Digital modes on TB and power required
Message-ID: <C9E69442-3141-4A38-A05C-2BD29E827C3C at mac.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=us-ascii

Try that on 160 from the left coast to EU and AF and you might get very a different perspective.

73 - Steve WB6RSE

On Mar 19, 2017, at 6:14 PM, Jim Jim <wa3mej at comcast.net> wrote:

But I have seen very very few instances when 50 watts wont get the job done EVEN on 160M. 

High power is RARELY necessary on the lower bands.

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2017 02:31:32 +0000 (UTC)
From: HAROLD SMITH JR <w0rihps at sbcglobal.net>
To: "wb6rse1 at mac.com" <wb6rse1 at mac.com>,     Top Band List List
    <topband at contesting.com>
Subject: Re: Topband: Digital modes on TB and power required
Message-ID: <2090077556.3483773.1489977092492 at mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Try that from the mid-west and you will have to wait, wait and wait and then wait some more.Been there, done that......................................................................................................................................................

Try that on 160 from the left coast to EU and AF and you might get very a different perspective.

73 - Steve WB6RSE

On Mar 19, 2017, at 6:14 PM, Jim Jim <wa3mej at comcast.net> wrote:

But I have seen very very few instances when 50 watts wont get the job done EVEN on 160M. 

High power is RARELY necessary on the lower bands.
_________________
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Message: 4
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2017 22:13:50 -0500
From: Mike Waters <mikewate at gmail.com>
To: topband <topband at contesting.com>
Subject: Re: Topband: Digital modes on TB and power required
Message-ID:
    <CA+FxYXhTu4z1Njc9DnkcJUSfwfbA=tJoYjMSzret1XTx5OSeUA at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

On Sun, Mar 19, 2017 at 8:42 PM, <wb6rse1 at mac.com> wrote:

> Try that on 160 from the left coast to EU and AF and you might get very a
> different perspective.
>
> 73 - Steve WB6RSE
>

On Sun, Mar 19, 2017 at 9:31 PM, HAROLD SMITH JR <w0rihps at sbcglobal.net>
wrote:

> Try that from the mid-west and you will have to wait, wait and wait and
> then wait some more. Been there, done that................................
>

Well said, Steve and Harold! That's usually true even if you have a super
station.

Maybe Jim has a better antenna system? Or a better location? We're all
ears, maybe we'll learn something new.

73. Mike
www.w0btu.com

> On Mar 19, 2017, at 6:14 PM, Jim Jim <wa3mej at comcast.net> wrote:
>
> But I have seen very very few instances when 50 watts wont get the job
> done EVEN on 160M.
>
> High power is RARELY necessary on the lower bands.
>

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Message: 5
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2017 08:57:12 -0500
From: Rob Atkinson <ranchorobbo at gmail.com>
To: topband at contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: JT65 Power and bandwidth
Message-ID:
    <CALWD7Z5=OAo7vCZsMuEwgJ7J0nPxQ8tZidzUzMy1rSfhBS2zqQ at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

>FCC regs say you should use the minimum power necessary to establish
>communications.

Um, no.  Here's what it actually says:

?97.313  Transmitter power standards.

(a) An amateur station must use the minimum transmitter power
necessary to carry out the desired communications.

Your "desired communications" are not my "desired communications."  I
desire solid armchair copy.  On 160 that usually means QRO.

73

Rob
K5UJ

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