Topband: Radial plate

[N2TK, Tony]

Hi Carl,
I am in upstate NY. We have decent soil but several feet down we are on
solid rock.

I'm envious of your receive antennas. I miss the 625' beverages I had in
Joisey. Only can fit in around 300' beverages here. That is why I switched
to Pennants, Flags and now have one W1FV 3-el array set up. So, definitely a
compromise here. 
Only 285 countries and 35 zones on 160M. I shunt feed the tower on 160M. If
I can hear them I can work them, usually.
73,
N2TK, Tony 

-----Original Message-----
From: Carl [mailto:km1h at jeremy.qozzy.com] 
Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2018 9:21 PM
To: N2TK, Tony <tony.kaz at verizon.net>; topband at contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Radial plate

The loss all depends upon your actual RF ground resistance. which ranges
from a near perfect salt water marsh to granite, deep glacial sand, and
rocky soils being among the worst. Loss of 2-3 dB is common at the LOWEST
angles wheras others keep quoting the lobe peak which doesnt change that
much.

Good BCB antennas have great groundwave BUT at night they can be heard half
the world away thanks to those real low and efficient angles which become
skywaves. Available ham software doenst work very well down there.
.
I consider 1 dB loss to be the threshold between a QSO or not, some consider
it less than that and Im strictly a CW DXer on 160 and realize that a high
percentage of the DX is at a serious disadvantage noise wise.

For RX I use 5 2 wire Beverages for 10 directions in the 500-750' range so
Im not particularly hearing limited because of my Southern NH granite
hilltop.

Just my opinion Tony after over 300 countries and 39 zones over several
decades.

Carl



----- Original Message -----
From: "N2TK, Tony" <tony.kaz at verizon.net>
To: "'Carl'" <km1h at jeremy.qozzy.com>; <topband at contesting.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2018 5:01 PM
Subject: RE: Topband: Radial plate


Hi Carl,
One advantages of going underground. No more wires hanging up in the air. It
will look cleaner. But I do not have any idea if my signal will degrade
going with buried radials over the 5 elevated radials at each feedpoint. The
ice was brutal this past winter.
Why do you say there will be a large signal loss going from elevated to
ground radials? You got my attentions with that statement.
N2TK, Tony

-----Original Message-----
From: Carl [mailto:km1h at jeremy.qozzy.com]
Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2018 3:51 PM
To: N2TK, Tony <tony.kaz at verizon.net>; topband at contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Radial plate

Since the change to on ground radials can result in a large loss of signal
in some areas why not just invest in stronger elevated radials?

I use scrapped deep well wire from well shops which is available in #12 to 6
in this area in 2 and 3 wire insulated styles and is often free. . For the
16 160M radials up 12-15' they run over tree branches and also over fairly
open areas.

Since I live on top of  the tallest hill in the area of Southern NH  Im
exposed to everything Mother Nature can throw at me from all
directions.....ice included. Back when I used #18 & 16 it was regularly
needing repair, amd now nothing in about 12 years. It acts/handles like a
cross between soft drawn house wire and hard drawn.

#16 to12 copper clad steel is available also with and without a strong
jacket and stranded or solid..

Carl


----- Original Message -----
From: "N2TK, Tony" <tony.kaz at verizon.net>
To: <topband at contesting.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2018 9:08 AM
Subject: Topband: Radial plate


Planning on changing from elevated radials to ground mounted radials for my
80 M 4-sq. After twice having to rebuild the elevated radials this past
winter from the snow/ice storms it is time to go to the ground. I plan on
having the feedpoints on 4x4 posts with the feedpoints 3' up from the ground
so they don't get snow covered often.

Looking at the DXEngineering Radial plates. It looks like an easy way to tie
the radials together on the ground then run a ground wire up to a box at the
feedpoint. Any comments or issues with using these radial plates?



Also going to use buried feedlines - RG6, ¾ wave with 8 turns through #31
big clamp-on core at the feedpoint.

73,

N2TK, Tony

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