Topband: Lack of NA Activity on CW

Tue Apr 23 16:34:50 EDT 2019

Steve,
You have summed it up perfectly.
Perhaps it will be FT8 that will keep Amateur Radio alive with the new 
"smart-device-bound, multi-tasking, app-addicted" generation. Times change.
TKS and 73,
George,
AA7JV/C6AGU

PS: I just did some checking of the QSO statistics from the KH1 Baker Island 
operation:
CW: 128 DXCC entities
SSB: 121
FT8: 107
RTTY: 36

CW is still King! It is RTTY that is getting killed!

On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 12:52:22 -0600
  VE6WZ_Steve <ve6wz at shaw.ca> wrote:
> Here are my thoughts on FACT vs FICTION regarding FT-8 and CW on 160m.
> (These thoughts relate to working DX…not “local” NA stations)
>
>FICTION:
> "All the DX has moved to FT8 on 160m like it did on 6m".
>
>FACT:
> On 160m this winter season from September till now (9 months) at VE6WZ I have made 926 CW QSOs with Europe, (382 unique callsigns) and 156 CW QSOs with Asia.  These do NOT include any dx contest QSOs. I have worked 109 DXCC in the same 9 month period on 160m CW. The majority of these QSOs are from calling CQ for 2-3 hours at night from 400-700z.
>
> I am sorry friends, but lets set the record straight….."the only place to get the DX cheese" as N6NU said is NOT just on FT8!  There are still many CW ops out there. Yes, I have a quiet rural hilltop location that is optimized for TB DX…BUT…that is not the point.  The FACT is there were 382 unique CW operators from EU that were active and available for a CW QSO this season.
> However, as others have said there are less people calling CQ and working casual DX on 160m than years past. 
> Perhaps some have migrated to FT8. Everyone has there own interest. We need more ops like F5IN, LA1MFA, HA8RM, G3JMJ, ON7PQ, RA4LW,SM5EDX….etc. etc. who call CQ for a few hours at a time.
> However, calling CQ takes time, patience and effort. Trying to answer a CW CQ, waiting for the QSB to peak to complete the QSO takes patience, time and effort.
>
>FACT: FT8 is easier and takes much less effort to work DX than CW
>
> With WSJT-x set to monitor FT8, one just needs to wait until a desired DX call pops up on the screen and a double click will give him a call. (yes, I know there is strategy and “skill” involved in selecting an optimal response frequency)
> Deep QSB is a HUGE factor on 160m unless the band is rocking open and stable and this may only happen one or two nights a season.
> With FT8, the decode passband is constantly being monitored by the computer waiting for that very brief QSB peak to get the decode.
>
> Often on CW,  the only way to complete a QSO is to sit on the CQ frequency and wait patiently for the signal to peak and come out of the noise and hopefully complete the QSO before the station disappears again into the noise. 
> Unlike FT-8, we can only do this on one frequency at a time. This takes considerable time and effort and can only be done sitting at the radio, scanning the band, watching the waterfall and looking at the RBN spots.
> Most of the time at VE6WZ, the DX signals on 160m will appear as a trace on the waterfall and be copiable for 30 seconds to a minute or so, and then fade away into oblivion with no copy for many minutes. Patience is required to work CW dx on 160m.  Some operators might show up on the band for a few minutes, click a few RBN spots and hear nothing, and conclude the band is “dead”. But that is not how 160m works.
>
> Meanwhile, using FT8, the computer is patiently, continuously decoding the band for hours on end, and occasionally “copies” a DX qso or CQ. The conclusion is the FT-8 is “better” at weak signal DX copy, but I suggest it is mostly because the computer is more patient, and makes the copy on the QSB peaks.  This is also why its common on 160m FT8 to have difficulty “completing” the QSO because the QSB will be too fast.
>
> It “seems” like FT-8 has a superior ability to copy the weak ones, but this is mostly because the computer is constantly monitoring the passband.
> Calling CQ with FT8 is also much easier.  Just let the computer run and keep an eye on it to watch for a CQ watchdog run-away alert.
>
> It really is much easier to “operate” FT-8 while doing other things in the shack. Checking e-mails, chatting in chat rooms, maybe even watching TV. This is obviously very compelling for many operators.  You just cant do that operating CW.
>
>
>FACT: 
> There is more activity on 160m  FT8 than CW
>
> I believe this is true, but perhaps many of these FT8 operators were never 160m DX CW ops anyway.  There are likely many FT-8 ops that don't know morse code, or are not proficient at CW, and this is a great DX substitute for SSB on 160m.
> This is a good thing and will encourage more interest and activity to the band.
>
>
> I personally have less interested in collecting DXCC counters than I used to.  Now I just like calling CQ and working ANY dx that calls in, even I have worked them numerous times.  This winter season I have had 38 QSOs with Wolf DF2PY and 20 QSOs with Vlad RA4LW on 160m and enjoyed every one. The thrill of digging the signal out of the noise is the magic of radio for me. I find operating FT8 painfully boring, but I realize for others it proves exciting.
>
> Lets not conclude that the ONLY way to work DX on 160m is with FT8 and that **everyone** is doing it.  If we all start to believe that myth, then eventually it might come true!
>
> 73, de steve ve6wz
>> On Apr 23, 2019, at 4:17 AM, Peter Sundberg <sm2cew at telia.com> wrote:
>>
>> Let's ponder:
>>
>> FT8 - everyone is on ONE center frequency (passband) and their computer is transmitting every 15 seconds for hours on end, regardless if they are in contact with another computer or not
>> FT8 - all the computers that are "hearing" other computers are making use of the built in 50 Hz filter in FT8
>> FT8 - computers "heard" are lined up and presented nicely sorted on the screeen
>> FT8 - some computers that are not fully copied are still presented as "heard" by use of the "a priori" functionality
>> FT8 - listening in by ear on 1840 it sure sounds like high activity
>>
>> CW - people call CQ on an unspecified frequency, sometimes with long interrupts
>> CW - listeners can't easily surf the band and dig in the noise in 50 Hz bandwidth
>> CW - without knowledge of who is where we need good signals to attract our attention and so we can start focusing
>> CW - summer conditions vary, but one thing is for sure, the noise is certainly higher and many have taken their microscopes (receiving antennas) down for the season
>> CW - many of us also have to live with a less effective TX antenna during the summer as we have to roll in our extensive radial field
>> CW - the KST chat list a lot of interesting and capable stations but most of them don't transmit every 15 seconds
>> CW - not all who are active announce themselves on KST
>>
>>
>> Bottom line:
>>
>> CW - it sure would be easier for us to only monitor a specific world wide calling frequency, but this is not realistic
>> CW - we have to accept that it is more difficult to do manual CW than single channel FT8 for reasons described above
>> CW - if we transmit more we will be heard :-)
>> CW - we are not lazy operators, we still love CW and continue to make noise whenever we can, despite the problems listed above
>> CW - we take on a challenge, we don't give up
>> CW- we look at the surrounding actors in a realistic way and realize what they are doing, duly noting that our table has better food
>> CW - we fully admire our colleagues in the southern hemisphere for being there all the time during our prime season up north!
>>
>> CW is King!
>>
>> 73
>> Peter SM2CEW
>>
>>
>> At 08:25 2019-04-23, lennart.michaelsson at telia.com wrote:
>>> Roger et al,
>>> I was on early this morning and even checked in on 
>>> ON4KST.
>>> Called a few CQ DX on 1826.5 without response so back to bed. Yet I did see
>>> quite a few US callsigns on the chat. Perhaps they never check out?
>>>
>>> 73 all
>>> Len SM7BIC
>>>
>>> -----Ursprungligt meddelande-----
>>> Från: Topband <topband-bounces at contesting.com> För Roger Kennedy
>>> Skickat: den 23 april 2019 10:17
>>> Till: topband at contesting.com
>>> Ämne: Topband: Lack of NA Activity on CW
>>>
>>>
>>> I get that many stations only use FT8 these days (out of laziness?) . . .
>>>
>>> But there are plenty of Top Band DXers (like me) who would never ever use
>>> FT8 . . . but many of these people hardly ever come on the band !
>>>
>>> It takes a pretty big setup to have a decent 160m DX station . . . what's
>>> the point in having invested all that time and money if the only time you
>>> ever come on the band is to work some DX-pedition?!
>>>
>>> Personally, what gives me a buzz is working ANY station on 160m more than a
>>> couple of thousand miles away. (it's the only band where that's actually an
>>> achievement).
>>>
>>> I don't care how many times I've worked that station before . . . and I also
>>> don't waste hours trying to get through a pile-up to work a DX-pedition
>>> station, as I'm really not bothered (I've usually already worked the island
>>> they're on anyway)
>>>
>>> It's becoming a self-fulfilling prophesy . . . If nobody makes the effort to
>>> come on the band on CW, there will be nobody on the band !!
>>>
>>> Roger G3YRO
>>>
>>>
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