Topband: Elevated Radials - will radials on ground help?

[fmoeves]

I was under the impression that If you have elevated radials and if you take even one to the ground you might as well move all to the ground..??Fred KB4QZH 
-------- Original message --------From: donovanf at erols.com Date: 12/29/20  12:30 PM  (GMT-05:00) To: topband at contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Elevated Radials - will radials on ground help? Hi Clive, A second resonant radial is a good idea, but not because it might cancel horizontally polarized radiation. Why? Because -- just like a Beverage -- a horizontal wire close to the ground has no significant horizontally polarized radiation. Essentially all of the horizontally polarized radiation is lost to ground losses. 73 Frank W3LPL ----- Original Message -----From: clive at gm3poi.com To: donovanf at erols.com, topband at contesting.com Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2020 5:25:05 PM Subject: RE: Topband: Elevated Radials - will radials on ground help? Frank what about adding another radial to each vertical to cancel the Horizontal polarisation from the single radial. 73 Clive GM3POI -----Original Message----- From: Topband <topband-bounces+clive=gm3poi.com at contesting.com> On Behalf Of donovanf at erols.com Sent: 29 December 2020 17:01 To: topband at contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Elevated Radials - will radials on ground help? Hi Dan, Your small lot is an ideal candidate for K2AV's folded counterpoise. Contact K2AV for guidance, he's helped countless successful users. www.k2av.com A few clarifications regarding radials and gain: Radials have absolutely nothing to do with gain. They only reduce ground losses within a fraction of a wavelength of the antenna. The realistic opportunities to further reduce losses are: - install the antenna on salt march like K3ZM and W1KM, or - install the antenna closer than one mile to sea water in the foreground of the antenna for at least a few miles in the most important directions. But you've already done that. Bravo! Good luck! 73 Frank W3LPL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Flaig NP2J" <dan at np2j.com> To: donovanf at erols.com Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2020 4:41:40 PM Subject: Re: Topband: Elevated Radials - will radials on ground help? On 2020-12-29 10:06, donovanf at erols.com wrote: > Hi Dan, > > An inverted-L with one elevated radial has lots of room for > improvement, > almost anything will improve what you now have. > > How much improvement you can achieve is mostly determined by site > limitations, copper wire expense, how much work you're able do > yourself or pay someone else to do for you. > > Eight radials, 70 feet long is the absolute minimum number of radials > if you lay them on the ground. Sixteen 80-foot radials will be much > better, > 32 100-radials will be significantly better than that. Finally 60 > 125-foot > radials will be within one dB of the best you could achieve. > > This is the classic reference: > > ncjweb.com/bonus-content/k3lcmaxgainradials.pdf > > If you continue to use resonant elevated radials, four is the minimum > number your should shoot for, but unfortunately its difficult to get > all > four elevated radials to carry similar amounts of current. Eight > elevated > radials is much better. > > The K2AV Folded counterpoise is another alternative to your > current single elevated radial. > > Good luck! > > 73 > Frank > W3LPL > > ------------------------- > > From: dan at np2j.com > To: topband at contesting.com > Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2020 1:58:53 PM > Subject: Topband: Elevated Radials - will radials on ground help? > > Hello fellow Topbanders! > > Had lots of fun in the Stew, thanks for the contacts everyone! > > Looking forward to the CQ160 and as always trying to find a way to > improve antenna performance.... so looking for advice > > I am currently using a pair of Inverted L's each having a single > elevated radial. > The feedpoint's and elevated radials are 10-12 feet above ground. > The soil is fairly rocky. > Also quite a bit of "Bush" growing fairly high except below elevated > radials where I have trimmed back the bush. > > I am wondering if I should lay radials on the ground, particulary near > > the feedpoint's? > Any advice?? > > 73 > Dan K8RF/NP2J > _________________ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector Frank, Thanks for the reply. My lot is narrow and runs North to South. The elevated radials run towards the North, figured might have small amount of gain in that direction. I could maybe add one or two additional elevated radials but they would be only angled a few degrees plus or minus from the current single radial going North. I am on side of ahill at abt 300 feet elevation about 3/4 of a mile from the North shoreline. 73 Dan _________________ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _________________Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector