Topband: Topband Digest, Vol 227, Issue 16

Sat Nov 13 16:05:03 EST 2021

Thought for sure you would tell us a lightning arrestor on a power
pole a mile away had worn out and was in the permanent arcing
position. 

A few years back a buddy and I tracked down my 59+20 noise to one of
two poles about 2000 ft west of my house. Met the local power company
boys at the pole I thought it was, but they checked it all and found
nothing. Then we moved to my Candidate #2, the next pole south. As
soon as the guy got out of his truck he said, "THIS is it!. I can hear
the lightning arrestor arcing over my head. Couple hours later all was
well on 160m again.

	-----------------------------------------From:
topband-request at contesting.com
To: topband at contesting.com
Cc: 
Sent: Saturday November 13 2021 12:00:48PM
Subject: Topband Digest, Vol 227, Issue 16

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 Today's Topics:

 1. Re: Beverage polarization (JHDMD)
 2. Re: Beverage polarization (Jose_Carlos)
 3. Beverage polarization (Ron Spencer)
 4. Beverage Combo (Chortek, Robert L.)
 5. Re: Beverage Combo (donovanf at erols.com)
 6. Horrendous Local Noise (Roger Kennedy)
 7. Re: Horrendous Local Noise (Jeff Kincaid)
 8. Re: Horrendous Local Noise (Peter Voelpel)

 ----------------------------------------------------------------------

 Message: 1
 Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2021 12:01:43 -0500
 From: JHDMD 
 To: Jose_Carlos 
 Cc: Wes , topband at contesting.com
 Subject: Re: Topband: Beverage polarization
 Message-ID: 
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

 This subject is well covered in theory by the late John Krause (SK es
W8JK) in his famous book
 ?Electromagnetics?. He is a late Professor of Electrical Engineering
at the Ohio State University.

 My father gave me a copy of this book when I was a student at Georgia
Tech in the 1960?s.

 73,

 John, W4NU

 Sent from my iPhone

 > On Nov 12, 2021, at 11:28 AM, Jose_Carlos  wrote:
 >
 > ?Ron
 >
 > The short answer is simple. Beverage antenna is really a
transmission line with all proprieties of a transmission line, in one
side is terminated by a load and on the other side by a transformer.
The difference in speed of the signal, and the arriving wave angle of
incidence, on the in the open air wire, and in the second wire, that
is actually the ground, generates a current that travels on the
direction of the arriving wave.
 > The wave near the ground interacts with matter (ground) and it is
reflected back, the vertical component has a positive phase and adds
to the incident vertical component and generate the current that
travel the transmission line (wire+ground). The Horizontal component
has a negative phase and cancel the horizontal component and the
result is no current is generated.
 >
 >
 > 73?s
 > JC
 > N4IS
 >
 > Sent from Mail for Windows
 >
 > From: Wes
 > Sent: Friday, November 12, 2021 9:09 AM
 > To: topband at contesting.com
 > Subject: Re: Topband: Beverage polarization
 >
 >
http://www.arrl.org/files/file/QST/This%20Month%20in%20QST/2021/11%20November%202021/Silver%20Donovan.pdf
 /> >
 >> On 11/12/2021 6:26 AM, Ron Spencer via Topband wrote:
 >> I recently read, from Tom, W8JI, that the beverage antenna is
vertically polarized. I'm hoping someone might explain this to me.
Intuitively seems it would be horizontal.
 >>
 >>
 >> From here: http://w8ji.com/polarization_and_diversity.htm
 /> >>
 >>
 >>
 >> Under Best diversity receive antennas.
 >>
 >>
 >>
 >> Thanks
 >>
 >>
 >>
 >> Ron
 >>
 >> N4XD
 >> Sent using https://www.zoho.com/mail/
 /> >> _________________
 >> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband [1] -
Topband Reflector
 >
 > _________________
 > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband [2] -
Topband Reflector
 >
 > _________________
 > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband [3] -
Topband Reflector

 ------------------------------

 Message: 2
 Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2021 12:14:04 -0500
 From: Jose_Carlos 
 To: JHDMD 
 Cc: Wes , "topband at contesting.com"

 Subject: Re: Topband: Beverage polarization
 Message-ID: 
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

 Thanks Jon I have one copy too.

 Electrical and Electronic Engineering series KRAUS ANTENNAS page 412.
14-11 Beverage or Wave Antenna.

 73.s
 JC
 N4IS

 Sent from Mail for Windows

 From: JHDMD
 Sent: Friday, November 12, 2021 12:03 PM
 To: Jose_Carlos
 Cc: Wes; topband at contesting.com
 Subject: Re: Topband: Beverage polarization

 This subject is well covered in theory by the late John Krause (SK es
W8JK) in his famous book
 ?Electromagnetics?. He is a late Professor of Electrical Engineering
at the Ohio State University.

 My father gave me a copy of this book when I was a student at Georgia
Tech in the 1960?s.

 73,

 John, W4NU

 Sent from my iPhone

 > On Nov 12, 2021, at 11:28 AM, Jose_Carlos  wrote:
 >
 > ?Ron
 >
 > The short answer is simple. Beverage antenna is really a
transmission line with all proprieties of a transmission line, in one
side is terminated by a load and on the other side by a transformer.
The difference in speed of the signal, and the arriving wave angle of
incidence, on the in the open air wire, and in the second wire, that
is actually the ground, generates a current that travels on the
direction of the arriving wave.
 > The wave near the ground interacts with matter (ground) and it is
reflected back, the vertical component has a positive phase and adds
to the incident vertical component and generate the current that
travel the transmission line (wire+ground). The Horizontal component
has a negative phase and cancel the horizontal component and the
result is no current is generated.
 >
 >
 > 73?s
 > JC
 > N4IS
 >
 > Sent from Mail for Windows
 >
 > From: Wes
 > Sent: Friday, November 12, 2021 9:09 AM
 > To: topband at contesting.com
 > Subject: Re: Topband: Beverage polarization
 >
 >
http://www.arrl.org/files/file/QST/This%20Month%20in%20QST/2021/11%20November%202021/Silver%20Donovan.pdf
 /> >
 >> On 11/12/2021 6:26 AM, Ron Spencer via Topband wrote:
 >> I recently read, from Tom, W8JI, that the beverage antenna is
vertically polarized. I'm hoping someone might explain this to me.
Intuitively seems it would be horizontal.
 >>
 >>
 >> From here: http://w8ji.com/polarization_and_diversity.htm
 /> >>
 >>
 >>
 >> Under Best diversity receive antennas.
 >>
 >>
 >>
 >> Thanks
 >>
 >>
 >>
 >> Ron
 >>
 >> N4XD
 >> Sent using https://www.zoho.com/mail/
 /> >> _________________
 >> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband [4] -
Topband Reflector
 >
 > _________________
 > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband [5] -
Topband Reflector
 >
 > _________________
 > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband [6] -
Topband Reflector

 _________________
 Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband [7] - Topband
Reflector

 ------------------------------

 Message: 3
 Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2021 12:17:01 -0500
 From: Ron Spencer 
 To: "Topband at Contesting. Com" 
 Subject: Topband: Beverage polarization
 Message-ID: 
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

 Thank all of you that responded. I had read the article in QST but
that was before I had my question. Went back and read (and re-read
again) the information on polarization. Think I got it. Again, thank
you all for the replies.?

 Ron

 N4XD

 Sent using https://www.zoho.com/mail/
 />
 ------------------------------

 Message: 4
 Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2021 18:09:04 +0000
 From: "Chortek, Robert L." 
 To: TopBand List 
 Subject: Topband: Beverage Combo
 Message-ID: 
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

 I have 300 foot unterminated beverage mounted at 3 feet on the fence
behind my yard which extends behind two neighbors? properties. Works
GREAT!

 Due to certain complications, I will need to turn antenna into a
combination standard beverage, and beverage on ground.

 The antenna will remain at 3 feet for 110 feet behind our property,
then drop down 3 feet vertical, run another hundred feet horizontal on
the ground, then up 3 feet vertical for the and then the final 100
feet at 3 feet on a neighbor?s fence.

 Does anybody have an opinion as to how much degradation I?m likely to
get from this new antenna?

 Thanks and 73,

 Bob/AA6VB
 Robert L. Chortek

 ------------------------------

 Message: 5
 Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2021 13:19:14 -0500 (EST)
 From: donovanf at erols.com
 To: TopBand List 
 Cc: "Robert L. Chortek" 
 Subject: Re: Topband: Beverage Combo
 Message-ID:

 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

 Hi Bob,

 The most serious issue with your idea is "on the ground"

 Even though BOGs are thought of being "on the ground" their
 performance is severely compromised if they're not elevated
 at least a few inches, typically by laying it on top of grass.

 Is it possible to keep "on the ground" portion at least slightly
 elevated?

 73
 Frank
 W3LPL

 ----- Original Message -----

 From: "Robert L. Chortek" 
 To: "TopBand List" 
 Sent: Friday, November 12, 2021 6:09:04 PM
 Subject: Topband: Beverage Combo

 I have 300 foot unterminated beverage mounted at 3 feet on the fence
behind my yard which extends behind two neighbors? properties. Works
GREAT!

 Due to certain complications, I will need to turn antenna into a
combination standard beverage, and beverage on ground.

 The antenna will remain at 3 feet for 110 feet behind our property,
then drop down 3 feet vertical, run another hundred feet horizontal on
the ground, then up 3 feet vertical for the and then the final 100
feet at 3 feet on a neighbor?s fence.

 Does anybody have an opinion as to how much degradation I?m likely to
get from this new antenna?

 Thanks and 73,

 Bob/AA6VB
 Robert L. Chortek
 _________________
 Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband [8] - Topband
Reflector

 ------------------------------

 Message: 6
 Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2021 23:27:00 -0000
 From: "Roger Kennedy" 
 To: 
 Subject: Topband: Horrendous Local Noise
 Message-ID: 
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 Well I haven't been able to come on 160m for over a week, as I
suddenly had
 the most horrendous noise all over the band, S9 + 30 dB, all day and
night,
 every day !

 I have tracked down rogue equipment in neighbours' houses over the
years,
 just by using a small AM radio and DF-ing, using the null on the end
of the
 internal ferrite rod antenna to show me the direction (you just need
2
 bearings). But going out in the street this noise was coming from
everywhere
 . . . got loads of different nulls in different directions, depending
on
 where I stood.

 I figured it must be a major fault with the underground mains cables,
arcing
 somewhere. (we have 415V 3-phase running underground over here, and
just one
 phase tapped off to each house, which gives 240V against Neutral.)

 I called out the company responsible for maintaining the cables, and
they
 arrived within an hour. But they could find nothing wrong (they
agreed there
 could be arcing underground, but said they didn't have any equipment
to
 detect where the fault might be - they just rely on the power going
off to a
 particular house!)

 So on Wednesday I called OFCOM to report the problem (like your FCC
in the
 USA). I figured it would be hard to get them to come and investigate,
and
 even then it would take weeks. But they were actually very interested
on the
 phone, and I emailed them a Log on the Thursday morning. On Thursday
 afternoon the guy responsible for the NE of England rang me, and said
he was
 away on holiday for 2 weeks on Monday, so he would try and juggle
 appointments so he could come up on Friday afternoon!

 Well he drove the 100 miles up here and arrived with a colleague
about 2pm,
 spent a while in the shack listening to the noise, and monitoring it
on
 their equipment connected to my Top Band dipole. After about 45
minutes they
 both went out in the street, and an hour later they came back to say
they
 think they had tracked it down.

 It actually turned out to be a faulty piece of equipment in a house
up the
 street . . . but not radiating directly - it was sending these huge
spikes
 back down the Mains . . . and then I guess the wiring in all the
houses
 along the street was then re-radiating the noise (which is why I
couldn't DF
 it properly).

 I was absolutely delighted ! So a big thank you to Alan and Tony from
OFCOM
 for coming and sorting my problem so very quickly . . . I really
never
 expected such amazing service.

 Roger G3YRO

 Regards

 Roger Kennedy
 Wessex Radio Productions

 Tel: 0191 250 2715
 Website: http://wessexproductions.co.uk [9]

 ------------------------------

 Message: 7
 Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2021 23:37:53 +0000 (UTC)
 From: Jeff Kincaid 
 To: "topband at contesting.com" , Roger Kennedy

 Subject: Re: Topband: Horrendous Local Noise
 Message-ID: 
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

 Wow!? Not just one, but two jolly good fellows.? Congratulations!
 Jeff W6JK

 On Friday, November 12, 2021, 03:27:20 PM PST, Roger Kennedy  wrote: