Topband: Topband Digest, Vol 231, Issue 14
Mamuka Kordzakhia
mamuka4l2m at yahoo.com
Fri Mar 25 10:31:11 EDT 2022
I will be very active on the Top band during contest. NA condition is good around 02:00 - 04:00 GMT
73!
Mamuka, 4L2M
On Thursday, March 24, 2022, 08:00:53 PM GMT+4, topband-request at contesting.com <topband-request at contesting.com> wrote:
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Today's Topics:
1. High winds flapping the L/FCP (Guy Olinger K2AV)
2. What antenna would you build? (Dino Darling)
3. Re: What antenna would you build? (Tim Duffy)
4. What antenna would you build? (Rob Atkinson)
5. Re: What antenna would you build? (Jon Zaimes, AA1K)
6. Re: What antenna would you build? (Mike VE9AA ve9aa at nbnet.nb.ca)
7. Re: What antenna would you build? (Tree)
8. Re: What antenna would you build? (w5zn at w5zn.org)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2022 23:48:26 -0400
From: Guy Olinger K2AV <k2av.guy at gmail.com>
To: topband <topband at contesting.com>
Subject: Topband: High winds flapping the L/FCP
Message-ID:
<CANckpc3rmpMc_D8c81HviGy-H6CwKgaEz0RxygJ2793d8JS56A at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Had a very gusty March 7 here in eastern North Carolina blowing the
L/FCP all over. Did some 160m R,X,SWR scans to see the electrical
result of that, recording them to graphical format. Was not expecting
what I got.
Would you have guessed that there is a way for the wind to wobble an
antenna wire, so that the feed X would wobble, the feed SWR wobble
worse, and the feed R would not? Text and graphics at:
k2av.com/Snips.20220323.html
Snips are a new format on k2av.com so I can post to list-servers using
short messages with a link without loading the list with
illustrations or detailed text, and save pix and text in an accessible
place where people can get to them without having to dig through
archives. Then I can post with careful language, illustrations, keep
them indexed and available and *editable* on the web site for later
readers.
A short format for curiosities, oddities, new understandings, answers
to posts on list-servers, etc.
Enjoy.
73, Guy K2AV
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2022 04:38:39 +0000
From: Dino Darling <dino at kx6d.com>
To: "Topband at contesting.com" <topband at contesting.com>
Subject: Topband: What antenna would you build?
Message-ID:
<BYAPR08MB56381785BD3B366296A640C1F8199 at BYAPR08MB5638.namprd08.prod.outlook.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
If you may and you are willing to indulge me; if you were about to buy 5-acres with no neighbors or restrictions and wanted to erect a serious 160M antenna system, what would you build and why? We can pass on the Radio Arcala discussion; nobody's that cool.
A loaded 4-square? 1/4 wave stick (or longer)? Phased dipoles? (fill in the blank)?
I've seen a 200' tower with three phased dipoles tilted on end. The end of one side of the dipole was anchored and insulated at the top of the tower and came down like guy cables. About half way down was the feedpoint, were an isolated anchor cable continued down the same path to ground (like a guy cable). However, the second half of the dipole was pulled back to the base of the tower, from the center feedpoint insulator. It looked like an arrowboard chevron or a regular dipole that was turned 90 degrees on its side. The coax was horizontal back to the tower. There were three of these spaced 120 degrees apart and fed with a phasing network to steer it. I understand it works great.
So what would you build?
Dino - KX6D
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2022 01:13:20 -0400
From: "Tim Duffy" <k3lr at k3lr.com>
To: "'Dino Darling'" <dino at kx6d.com>, "'Topband at contesting.com'"
<topband at contesting.com>
Subject: Re: Topband: What antenna would you build?
Message-ID: <0c2301d83f3d$e17e85f0$a47b91d0$@k3lr.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hello Dino,
Take a look in the last three editions of the ON4UN Low Band book - in the
Yagi chapter.
I have described in detail the 3 element vertical Yagi for 160 meters that I
am using. Gives over 5 dB of gain (over a single 1/4 wavelength vertical)
and the front to back is over 30 dB at the peak. Four directions. It works
good for about 40 KHz of the band (great for DX contests). I do have CW and
SSB optimum settings for the parasitic elements. W5ZN, AA1K, K9CT, NR5M and
VE3EJ have built this antenna as well. It can work omni as well. Requires
one tower 120 feet tall and a LC matching network to step up the 25 ohm
feedpoint impedance.
It is easy to build and very effective. Twice from K3LR we worked over 100
DXCC in one weekend in the CQWW CW contest - from almost Ohio...
It does require five extensive ground radial systems (one under each
element). The best DX with this antenna was JT5DX in zone 23 during the CQWW
160 meter contest and this past November, RW0A in zone 18 - in the morning
local time here!
73
Tim K3LR
-----Original Message-----
From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces+k3lr=k3lr.com at contesting.com] On
Behalf Of Dino Darling
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2022 12:39 AM
To: Topband at contesting.com
Subject: Topband: What antenna would you build?
If you may and you are willing to indulge me; if you were about to buy
5-acres with no neighbors or restrictions and wanted to erect a serious 160M
antenna system, what would you build and why? We can pass on the Radio
Arcala discussion; nobody's that cool.
A loaded 4-square? 1/4 wave stick (or longer)? Phased dipoles? (fill in the
blank)?
I've seen a 200' tower with three phased dipoles tilted on end. The end of
one side of the dipole was anchored and insulated at the top of the tower
and came down like guy cables. About half way down was the feedpoint, were
an isolated anchor cable continued down the same path to ground (like a guy
cable). However, the second half of the dipole was pulled back to the base
of the tower, from the center feedpoint insulator. It looked like an
arrowboard chevron or a regular dipole that was turned 90 degrees on its
side. The coax was horizontal back to the tower. There were three of these
spaced 120 degrees apart and fed with a phasing network to steer it. I
understand it works great.
So what would you build?
Dino - KX6D
_________________
Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2022 05:18:43 -0500
From: Rob Atkinson <ranchorobbo at gmail.com>
To: topband at contesting.com
Subject: Topband: What antenna would you build?
Message-ID:
<CALWD7Z70Cfb9hY2OxCnjqPJcrS66rRoujx1oz-S69HJwZcHx=A at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Good question. I don't think you mentioned any cost limit. Given
that I would put up a substantial self supporting commercial tower ~
130' tall. Solid legs, 5 or 6' face tapering to 1 or 2 feet. Pyrod
or similar. I'd put a skirt on it, 3 vertical wires on insulated
standoffs with horizontal loops bonded in, every 20' or so and plow in
at least 100 quarter wave 160 m. radials around the tower base.
Essentially a skirt fed 90 degree monopole on 1800 kc. skirt feed
means the tower can be grounded and used for other purposes at the top
-- whatever your interests are. Of course it would have to be sited
to allow room for the ground system. Forget about anything horizontal
or any kind of dipole on 160. I guess if you wanted to spend a lot,
you could do a pair of these towers and phase them. You'll have solid
towers you'll never be hesitant to climb; and never have to deal with
guy cables, or a base insulator like you'd need with a guyed hot
tower. You will get out unless the band is completely dead. It will
be interesting to read what others come up with.
73
Rob
K5UJ
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2022 11:27:00 +0000 (UTC)
From: "Jon Zaimes, AA1K" <jz73 at verizon.net>
To: "k3lr at k3lr.com" <k3lr at k3lr.com>, "dino at kx6d.com" <dino at kx6d.com>,
"topband at contesting.com" <topband at contesting.com>
Subject: Re: Topband: What antenna would you build?
Message-ID: <1666822988.1660794.1648121220727 at mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
My version of Tim's array was installed in 1998, with 120 on-ground radials under each element. A few years later I added an extra director toward Europe for an additional 0.9 db gain in that direction.
It brought me up to 329 countries on 160, including JT, HS, XZ, VU, A5, BA.
After a few years I was looking for something more and came up with a broadside/endfire array that offers about 8.5 db gain over a single vertical. WW2Y/K2WI first used a version of this in New Jersey in the 1980s, with Inverted L elements hung from trees. VY2ZM has one using full-size towers.
My version has a footprint of 325 feet by 146 feet, oriented to favor Europe. One of the T-shaped wire elements (no. 12 THHN, 73.5 feet vertical, 58 feet horizontal) is borrowed from the K3LR array, switched with relays. The other three are hung from towers and trees. Each element has 120 on-ground radials, about 130 feet long. A couple of bs/ef arrays are described in ON4UN's book.
If you add four more elements this becomes the 8-circle array, switchable in 8 directions (may not fit in 5 acres). N5IA (SK) built one of these in Arizona, still in use by the NA7TB club station.
K9DX had a 9-circle array in Illinois for many years, since dismantled. More complex but very effective.
73/Jon
Jon P. Zaimes, AA1K Tower climber for hire http://www.aa1k.us/ Cell: 302-632-2353email: jz73 at verizon.net or aa1k at arrl.net
-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Duffy <k3lr at k3lr.com>
To: 'Dino Darling' <dino at kx6d.com>; 'Topband at contesting.com' <topband at contesting.com>
Sent: Thu, Mar 24, 2022 1:13 am
Subject: Re: Topband: What antenna would you build?
Hello Dino,
Take a look in the last three editions of the ON4UN Low Band book - in the
Yagi chapter.
I have described in detail the 3 element vertical Yagi for 160 meters that I
am using. Gives over 5 dB of gain (over a single 1/4 wavelength vertical)
and the front to back is over 30 dB at the peak. Four directions. It works
good for about 40 KHz of the band (great for DX contests). I do have CW and
SSB optimum settings for the parasitic elements. W5ZN, AA1K, K9CT, NR5M and
VE3EJ have built this antenna as well. It can work omni as well. Requires
one tower 120 feet tall and a LC matching network to step up the 25 ohm
feedpoint impedance.
It is easy to build and very effective. Twice from K3LR we worked over 100
DXCC in one weekend in the CQWW CW contest - from almost Ohio...
It does require five extensive ground radial systems (one under each
element). The best DX with this antenna was JT5DX in zone 23 during the CQWW
160 meter contest and this past November, RW0A in zone 18 - in the morning
local time here!
73
Tim K3LR
-----Original Message-----
From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces+k3lr=k3lr.com at contesting.com] On
Behalf Of Dino Darling
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2022 12:39 AM
To: Topband at contesting.com
Subject: Topband: What antenna would you build?
If you may and you are willing to indulge me; if you were about to buy
5-acres with no neighbors or restrictions and wanted to erect a serious 160M
antenna system, what would you build and why? We can pass on the Radio
Arcala discussion; nobody's that cool.
A loaded 4-square? 1/4 wave stick (or longer)? Phased dipoles? (fill in the
blank)?
I've seen a 200' tower with three phased dipoles tilted on end. The end of
one side of the dipole was anchored and insulated at the top of the tower
and came down like guy cables. About half way down was the feedpoint, were
an isolated anchor cable continued down the same path to ground (like a guy
cable). However, the second half of the dipole was pulled back to the base
of the tower, from the center feedpoint insulator. It looked like an
arrowboard chevron or a regular dipole that was turned 90 degrees on its
side. The coax was horizontal back to the tower. There were three of these
spaced 120 degrees apart and fed with a phasing network to steer it. I
understand it works great.
So what would you build?
Dino - KX6D
_________________
Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
_________________
Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2022 10:27:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Mike VE9AA ve9aa at nbnet.nb.ca" <ve9aa at nbnet.nb.ca>
To: topband at contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: What antenna would you build?
Message-ID: <3b324ec.5f16.17fbc53430a.Webtop.43 at nbnet.nb.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed; delsp=no
I like 4-squares Dino. I have them on 15, 20, 40, 80 and a small 2-el
on 160...
I'm still looking for an ACB-10 (10 meters) (or equivalent) to complete
the whole set.
If it were me, I'd build whatever it is VY2ZM is using. (vy2zm.com) or
2nd choice, K3LR
GL
Mike VE9AA
If you may and you are willing to indulge me; if you were about to buy
5-acres
with no neighbors or restrictions and wanted to erect a serious 160M
antenna
system, what would you build and why? We can pass on the Radio Arcala
discussion; nobody's that cool.
A loaded 4-square? 1/4 wave stick (or longer)? Phased dipoles? (fill in
the
blank)?
I've seen a 200' tower with three phased dipoles tilted on end. The end
of one
side of the dipole was anchored and insulated at the top of the tower
and came
down like guy cables. About half way down was the feedpoint, were an
isolated
anchor cable continued down the same path to ground (like a guy cable).
However, the second half of the dipole was pulled back to the base of
the
tower, from the center feedpoint insulator. It looked like an arrowboard
chevron or a regular dipole that was turned 90 degrees on its side. The
coax
was horizontal back to the tower. There were three of these spaced 120
degrees
apart and fed with a phasing network to steer it. I understand it works
great.
So what would you build?
Dino - KX6D
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2022 07:37:23 -0700
From: Tree <tree at kkn.net>
To: "Jon Zaimes, AA1K" <jz73 at verizon.net>
Cc: "k3lr at k3lr.com" <k3lr at k3lr.com>, "dino at kx6d.com" <dino at kx6d.com>,
"topband at contesting.com" <topband at contesting.com>
Subject: Re: Topband: What antenna would you build?
Message-ID:
<CAKF9HhY+ggAEmvuGNRNS0gR=L1PSzkGtPK4Ja0GhfxKwwr=GUQ at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Sorry I am a bit late to the party. You certainly can't go wrong with what
K3LR or AA1K have.
One question that maybe I would ask before giving advice - is what do you
want to do with it? Is your primary goal to work as many countries as
possible - or are you looking to be competitive in contests? If so - which
contests?
160 meter antennas generally can be put into two categories - transmit and
receive. The receive side is actually where to put your emphasis.
Although some TX antennas have enough directivity to be useful on RX as
well - HOWEVER, is any contest, it is useful to have an omni directional
transmit antenna that is effective (which can be done with the K3LR
approach).
My suggestion might be to start with a simple 1/4 wave stick - which will
enable you to work most anything you can hear - and then focus on a good
array of RX antennas. You can add parasitic elements to it later if you
want to mess around with them. They do take some tweaking to get tuned in
just right - and also limit the amount of the band you can use (a downside
in contests from the West coast where we often get pushed around the band).
Tree N6TR
On Thu, Mar 24, 2022 at 4:27 AM Jon Zaimes, AA1K via Topband <
topband at contesting.com> wrote:
> My version of Tim's array was installed in 1998, with 120 on-ground
> radials under each element. A few years later I added an extra director
> toward Europe for an additional 0.9 db gain in that direction.
> It brought me up to 329 countries on 160, including JT, HS, XZ, VU, A5, BA.
> After a few years I was looking for something more and came up with a
> broadside/endfire array that offers about 8.5 db gain over a single
> vertical. WW2Y/K2WI first used a version of this in New Jersey in the
> 1980s, with Inverted L elements hung from trees. VY2ZM has one using
> full-size towers.
> My version has a footprint of 325 feet by 146 feet, oriented to favor
> Europe. One of the T-shaped wire elements (no. 12 THHN, 73.5 feet vertical,
> 58 feet horizontal) is borrowed from the K3LR array, switched with relays.
> The other three are hung from towers and trees. Each element has 120
> on-ground radials, about 130 feet long. A couple of bs/ef arrays are
> described in ON4UN's book.
> If you add four more elements this becomes the 8-circle array, switchable
> in 8 directions (may not fit in 5 acres). N5IA (SK) built one of these in
> Arizona, still in use by the NA7TB club station.
> K9DX had a 9-circle array in Illinois for many years, since dismantled.
> More complex but very effective.
> 73/Jon
>
> Jon P. Zaimes, AA1K Tower climber for hire http://www.aa1k.us/ Cell:
> 302-632-2353email: jz73 at verizon.net or aa1k at arrl.net
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tim Duffy <k3lr at k3lr.com>
> To: 'Dino Darling' <dino at kx6d.com>; 'Topband at contesting.com' <
> topband at contesting.com>
> Sent: Thu, Mar 24, 2022 1:13 am
> Subject: Re: Topband: What antenna would you build?
>
> Hello Dino,
>
> Take a look in the last three editions of the ON4UN Low Band book - in the
> Yagi chapter.
>
> I have described in detail the 3 element vertical Yagi for 160 meters that
> I
> am using. Gives over 5 dB of gain (over a single 1/4 wavelength vertical)
> and the front to back is over 30 dB at the peak. Four directions. It works
> good for about 40 KHz of the band (great for DX contests). I do have CW and
> SSB optimum settings for the parasitic elements. W5ZN, AA1K, K9CT, NR5M and
> VE3EJ have built this antenna as well. It can work omni as well. Requires
> one tower 120 feet tall and a LC matching network to step up the 25 ohm
> feedpoint impedance.
>
> It is easy to build and very effective. Twice from K3LR we worked over 100
> DXCC in one weekend in the CQWW CW contest - from almost Ohio...
>
> It does require five extensive ground radial systems (one under each
> element). The best DX with this antenna was JT5DX in zone 23 during the
> CQWW
> 160 meter contest and this past November, RW0A in zone 18 - in the morning
> local time here!
>
> 73
> Tim K3LR
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces+k3lr=k3lr.com at contesting.com] On
> Behalf Of Dino Darling
> Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2022 12:39 AM
> To: Topband at contesting.com
> Subject: Topband: What antenna would you build?
>
> If you may and you are willing to indulge me; if you were about to buy
> 5-acres with no neighbors or restrictions and wanted to erect a serious
> 160M
> antenna system, what would you build and why? We can pass on the Radio
> Arcala discussion; nobody's that cool.
>
> A loaded 4-square? 1/4 wave stick (or longer)? Phased dipoles? (fill in the
> blank)?
>
> I've seen a 200' tower with three phased dipoles tilted on end. The end of
> one side of the dipole was anchored and insulated at the top of the tower
> and came down like guy cables. About half way down was the feedpoint, were
> an isolated anchor cable continued down the same path to ground (like a guy
> cable). However, the second half of the dipole was pulled back to the base
> of the tower, from the center feedpoint insulator. It looked like an
> arrowboard chevron or a regular dipole that was turned 90 degrees on its
> side. The coax was horizontal back to the tower. There were three of these
> spaced 120 degrees apart and fed with a phasing network to steer it. I
> understand it works great.
>
> So what would you build?
>
> Dino - KX6D
> _________________
> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband
> Reflector
>
> _________________
> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband
> Reflector
> _________________
> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband
> Reflector
>
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2022 09:33:19 -0600
From: w5zn at w5zn.org
To: Dino Darling <dino at kx6d.com>
Cc: "Topband at contesting.com" <topband at contesting.com>
Subject: Re: Topband: What antenna would you build?
Message-ID: <1720170c3a11cf5949a299a851ae242b at w5zn.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
Hi Dino,
I started with a single 1/4 wave vertical as Tree notes and it worked
extremely well for years, however after a period of time I had a desire
to upgrade the single vertical to a system that offered some gain on TX.
I came across the array that Tim, K3LR, mentioned in "Low Band DX'ing"
that describes his systems and discovered I could build this array
around the existing 1/4 wave vertical and achieve 4-square performance
in a smaller footprint area. I have now used the array for four years
and the performance has been outstanding. After reading the info
regarding this array in Low Band DX'ing I documented some additional
details of my experience that were presented at the Dayton Antenna Forum
and also published in the National Contest Journal. Copies of those
documents can be found here:
https://www.kkn.net/dayton2018/2018_Dayton_Antenna_Forum-160_meter_TX_Array.pdf
https://ncjweb.com/features/sepoct18feat.pdf
As Tree notes, the very first step is to determine exactly what your
objective is. The five element parasitic array has met my objectives for
both contest and DX activities.
73 Joel W5ZN
On 2022-03-23 22:38, Dino Darling wrote:
> If you may and you are willing to indulge me; if you were about to buy
> 5-acres with no neighbors or restrictions and wanted to erect a
> serious 160M antenna system, what would you build and why? We can pass
> on the Radio Arcala discussion; nobody's that cool.
>
> A loaded 4-square? 1/4 wave stick (or longer)? Phased dipoles? (fill
> in the blank)?
>
> I've seen a 200' tower with three phased dipoles tilted on end. The
> end of one side of the dipole was anchored and insulated at the top of
> the tower and came down like guy cables. About half way down was the
> feedpoint, were an isolated anchor cable continued down the same path
> to ground (like a guy cable). However, the second half of the dipole
> was pulled back to the base of the tower, from the center feedpoint
> insulator. It looked like an arrowboard chevron or a regular dipole
> that was turned 90 degrees on its side. The coax was horizontal back
> to the tower. There were three of these spaced 120 degrees apart and
> fed with a phasing network to steer it. I understand it works great.
>
> So what would you build?
>
> Dino - KX6D
> _________________
> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband
> Reflector
------------------------------
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