Topband: Working 'long' distances on 160m

[Grant Saviers]

One of the HFTA arrival angle charts shows the very low angles EU - PNW 
on 80m.  These are calculated values.

One way to measure arrival angles is to real time compare S/N on a 
vertical vs a dipole.  From good modeling, the specific antennas can be 
"calibrated" gain vs elevation and the comparison of elevation gains 
approximates the arrival angle.  I've not done it, I'm sure it isn't easy.

Another article I read (9/14 Radcom) stated (80m)
“Very good” propagation – 7 SoCal stations averaged 5 degrees
“Poor” propagation -  10 east coast stations were 43 +/- 10 degrees

Verified by my 40ft high 80m dipole near Boston vs a 2L 100ft elements 
80m beam at 157ft that does less well from Redmond.

To measure 160m arrival angles, it might take the full size dipole W8JI 
had up at 300ft vs his verticals.  His comments about relative 
performance are interesting.  w8ji.com (don't have the exact link)

I made a local club presentation about various 80m antennas & broadband 
dipoles from PNW to EU.  If anybody wants a copy, email me off list.

Grant KZ1W

On 9/25/2022 11:42, Artek Manuals wrote:
> Grant
> 
> Having lived in both Spokane and Boston area I can validate you 
> observation in a general way and I am now in Florida where the game 
> still played differently again than either
> 
> I am REALLY INTRIGUED by you comment "Arrival angles for 80 peak at less 
> than 10 degrees" . How did you measure that? Actually "measuring"  vs 
> hypothesizing has always confounded me when it comes to measuring ACTUAL 
> arrival angles
> 
> Dave
> NR1DX
> 
> On 9/25/2022 10:25 AM, Grant Saviers wrote:
>> My perspective as originally a "1" in Boston and now residing near 
>> Seattle, is the nickname "suffering sevens" is well applied to my 
>> friends here in the Pacific Northwest.
>>
>> Simply, for the PNW, distance isn't that meaningful - it's path that 
>> matters (and latitude).  What was easy in Boston at 42N is very hard 
>> in Seattle at 48N re EU on both 80 and 160.  The path is mostly over 
>> land or ice and usually thru or around the edge of the aurora zone. 
>> Arrival angles for 80 peak at less than 10*.  OTOH, JA's- yawn. Almost 
>> exactly the same 4790 miles either way, Seattle to Tokyo or London.
>>
>> So when you hear a "suffering seven" in EU, reach out.  We also get a 
>> chuckle when "the band is open" messages get posted from EU and what 
>> we hear is only noise.
>>
>> I did get TB DXCC, all from PNW since 2018, so am not complaining. 
>> Just want some more ;) .
>>
>> Grant KZ1W
>>
>> On 9/25/2022 00:12, Steve Ireland wrote:
>>> G’day all
>>>
>>> Some food for thought.
>>>
>>> Like Roger G3YRO and others who were teenage UK radio amateurs in the 
>>> 1960s/1970s I grew up radio-wise on 160m. In those days, the holy 
>>> grail was to work across the Atlantic from UK/Europe.
>>>
>>> Nowadays, living in Western Australia, it seems quite funny to think 
>>> that working from Europe to into the east coast of North America is 
>>> something that is still considered as real DX working on topband, as 
>>> the distance is not relatively long and there is no shortage of 
>>> stations (in theory!) at either end.
>>>
>>> Back in the late 1960s/early 1970s, UK stations (and others in 
>>> Europe) could only legally use 10W DC input, so working this distance 
>>> was really difficult and thus ‘serious DX’. However, as the 1970s 
>>> progressed, there were TL-922 linear amplifiers in use at various 
>>> G-DXers (but of course, ahem, never on 160m).
>>>
>>> Some years after this, 400W output became both legal and commonplace 
>>> below 1832KHz in the UK.
>>>
>>> Anyhow, my point is that the distance from Europe/the UK to east 
>>> coast USA is relatively short – from the UK’s Newcastle Upon Tyne 
>>> (where Roger lives) to New York is about 3,330 miles (about 5,360 
>>> km)  as the crow flies.
>>>
>>> This is a very similar distance from Perth, Western Australia to 
>>> Auckland, New Zealand – but no serious Southern Hemisphere topband 
>>> DXer would consider a contact between VK6 and ZL1 as a DX contact. 😉
>>>
>>> On the other hand, Perth to Newcastle Upon Tyne is 9,056 miles 
>>> (14,574 km) while New York to Perth is 11,613 miles (18,690km). That 
>>> to me is DX. But Australia (Perth in particular) is a long way away 
>>> from anywhere else.
>>>
>>> All a question of perspective, history and where you live I guess.  😉
>>>
>>> Vy 73
>>>
>>> Steve, VK6VZ/G3ZZD/VY2LF
>>>
>>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> _________________
>> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband 
>> Reflector
>