Stick to the advise of the pro's--you won't go wrong!! I can't think of any reason to use a pier point for the average ham installation. AA4Z -- FAQ on WWW: http://www.contesting.com/towertalkfaq.html Submissions: towertalk@contesting.com Administrative requests: towertalk-REQUEST@contesting.com Problems: owner-towertalk@contesting.com Search: http://www.contesting.com/km9p/search