[TowerTalk] F12 versus Tennadyne

[wa4dou@juno.com]

Hi Guys,
  Its both interesting and amusing to see that the debate rages on, even
several days later.

One thing that is evident to me is that when we're younger, we tend to
adopt particular 
points of view and will sometimes stubbornly hold to them, arguing our
view against and to
the exclusion of others.  As we grow older we often tend to change our
views on some 
things, based on personal preferences, and viola, other points of view
that we were exposed 
to in the past start to make more sense. Along the path of growth
,hopefully we become more 
well rounded and learn to appreciate a variety of points of view. It is
at  the point that one has
been exposed to and/or indulged in thought about all the possible points
of view, and debated 
the pros and cons, backwards and forwards, inside and out, that leads us
to the threshold of
having a pretty good idea what the heck we're talking about. 

  I hope that everyone is enjoying reading these posts as much as i am.

  In 1965-66, i was in the Navy, attending Fleet Sonar School in Key
West, Fl. I had a Knight T-60 
and 3 crystals, later a VF-1 vfo. The receiver was at first a Hammarlund
HQ-129X, later a National
NC-300. The antennas were dipoles about 25-30 ft. high/ or a windom about
20 ft. high at one end
and 35 ft. high at the other. Output power was on the order of 25 - 30
watts(estimated). Pretty modest 
stuff. Yet in those 15 or 16 months, i worked something like 55 countries
with those 3 crystals and 
another 25-35 countries with the vfo. That period of my life was one of
perhaps 3 or 4 such periods
where for a year or two, i had the time and resources to pursue amateur
radio actively. Between late
'66 and late '72 ,i was aboard destroyers and away from home for 4 years
and 10 months out of 6 yrs.
My activity was lots of phone patches and some occasional casual cw
dx'ing, which didn't count for 
anything, as far as awards go. And i got to meet some hams in far away
places like VQ8 and CR7.

  The only gain antenna i ever had in the lower vhf range was a homemade
2 element 10 meter  yagi, 
spaced 1/4 wave, at 30 ft. high. With 100 watts i easily worked 100
countries in late '67,early '68.

  Below 10 meters, i've never had a rotary gain antenna. Antennas have
been modest, verticals, dipoles,
random and long wires. In the mid to late 90's -EDZ's, 2 half waves in
phase, Lazy "H's", etc. One truly
 great antenna i once 
had was a 5/8th wave 20 meter vertical(42 ' high) over 100 fifty ft.
radials. Down the street, a local ham
had a "tribander" at 70 ft., and often times his signal would be reported
to be 6 db greater than mine.
Thats roughly the amount of ground reflection gain  his horizontal
antenna had over my vertical.

  I agree with Steve, the station is 20% of it, the operators desire and
skill 80%. Tenacity goes a very
long way.

  I've worked something like 245 countries in my life, and i have
confirmations from perhaps 190-200.
Some pretty good stuff too! Some of it came from pileups. Lots of big
signals in the pileups but the 
QRP'ers believe rightly, that skill goes far where power is lacking.

  Imagine how easy dx'ing is going to be with a rotary gain antenna atop
a 52 ft. tower. I've been lusting
after the idea for most of my life. Funny how when there wasn't as much
prosperity in the land, the TA-33
was very plentiful and kicked butt.

  Not all are contesters. I'm a very casual contester, don't care if i
win, just like to join in and participate.
I once made a "clean sweep" in Sweepstakes", on cw, in 1977. It was fun,
i never bothered to send in
my log. I was using a TR-4 and a 270 ft. long wire, when i lived in
Flagstaff.

  I'll bet you guys money that i'll be able to work as much dx as i want,
with any antenna on a 52 ft. tower.
Force 12, Tennadyne, whatever.

  I weighed the claims, debated, pondered, thought about it. Gain,
bandwidth, weight, size, swr,windload
and wind rateing, F12 C3SS beats Tennadyne in some areas, Tennadyne beats
F12 in others.

  Tennadyne T-6 weighs 29 pounds, 7 sq. ft windloading, 100 mph rateing,
stainless steel hardware is 
standard and not a $30-$44 option like F12. Shipping prepaid(surface) is
included in the Tennadyne@
$395.
  I compared the C3SS and not the C3S because the 100 mph wind rateing
wasn't standard in the C3S
(but was in the C3SS) It was at extra cost in the C3S.
  The C3SS weighs 27 pounds, 4.4 sq.ft. of windloading, 100 mph rateing,
stainless steel hardware,
 optional, otherwise i assume plated is standard. Shipping charges are
extra. Base price is $469.
  The C3SS has(using their claims) 4.1/1.9/4.7/1.6/and 4.4 dbd gain on
20/17/15/12/10 meters respectively.
The 20/17/15/12/10 meter F/B claimed is 18/10/16/3/16 respectively. 

  The T-6 gain claim is 5.1 dbd. I don't believe it. I guessed maybe
3-3.5. I understand that an article in 
Antenna Compendium#6 by K9LA,  about the T-6, models its gain as follows:
(haven't seen it)
  1.9-2.4/3/3.4-3.65/3.4-3.65/3.8-4.1 for 20/17/15/12/10 respectively .  
Ok!

  F/B i cannot comment on except to say that its claim is 15-25
db.(roughly comparable till known otherwise 
on my part.
  Difference in price, delivered is $125-$150 higher for the C3SS.
Delivery time estimated to be 3 weeks.

  I would have paid the higher price for the slight difference in F12
claimed performance BUT decided i wouldn't
pay it AND wait 3 weeks. I ordered the Tennadyne T-6.

  I'll get to see first hand and document its performance. We'll see just
what it can do. It will be fef with 1/2" 
Andrews LDF heliax.I'll gladly share my findings with this and any other
group.

  There are good features about both antennas, if modeling and claims are
any indicator.Its hardly an "open 
and shut" case in favor of one over the other. Very close to 6 of 1 and
half dozen of another. Remember that 
2 db doesn't matter till conditions put you at the edge of the noise. I'm
primarily a cw operator by a very wide 
margin. 

  If i can easily work 50 countries including VK9 with 1 watt and easily
work >100 countries with 4 watts with
wire antennas, over a year, casually, then i'll work most anything i want
to work, most anytime i want to work it
with a rotary gain antenna on a 52 ft. tower.

  OK guys, let the debate continue! Ha!                    73 Roy Lincoln
WA4DOU

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