[TowerTalk] vertical antennas

[Chris BONDE]

First, question, where is an inexpensive source of the book.

Second, a long expanation for possible a silly question.
I have read about underground antennas, about ground antennas that shorten 
the length of the physical wire, about radials needed when in/on the ground 
and about 10ft above the ground.  Now, if we have a dipole in a vertical 
position and move it up or down relative to the normal ground its 
characteristics do change but slightly, if we move it to ground then bend 
out the lower portion we have a "V" type or the begining of a ground plan 
vertical.  Now what would happen if we place the lower portion of the 
dipole in a PVC pipe (conduit, water etc) and pushed this into the ground 
vertically.  Then we would have the top portion above the gound and the 
bottom portion below the ground (electrically isolated).  The next would be 
to raised the underground portion (still incased) up to be above the gound 
10ft and bend the top portion to a horizontal, to resemble an "L" 
inverted.  This would give most of the current portion of the antenna above 
the ground, both sides of the dipole.
This may sound silly but I donot have a program to simulate it, nor all the 
math ability, however, it still seems to be plausible.  I would like to 
hear proposals both for and against the idea (not me as I am probably crazy 
for even being a Ham!).

Chris opr VE7HCB


At 08:12 PM 2001-10-23 -0500, Jerry Kincade wrote:

>Dick, I'd first invest twenty bucks in ON4UN's book "Low Band DXing" and
>read, read, read. Very informative and well written. Great section on
>verticals and radials.
>73, Jerry W5KP
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Rick Williams" <richardw@mho.com>
>To: <towertalk@contesting.com>
>Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2001 10:44 AM
>Subject: [TowerTalk] vertical antennas
>
>
> >
> > I am in the process of erecting a Force 12 160VX (60ft tall 160 mtr
> > vertical.     The insturction manual addresses using 2 elevated radials
> > instead of more traditional ground radials.
> >
> > After talking to a few other hams on the "pros and cons" along with their
> > experiences with each; I have come to the completely unscientific
>conclusion
> > to use ground radails.
> >
> > Even in this area I have found some different ideas.  Mainly, their is one
> > train of thought  that ground radials need not be longer than the height
>of
> > the vertical radiator (in my case, 60 ft.).    The other train, always use
> > quarter wave radials (130 ft) regardless.
> >
> > I wonder what the "thread" is on this.  In my situation, I can lay 130 ft
> > radials for 270 degrees.  In the other 90, radials are going to decrease
>in
> > length to about 60 ft for the shortest (perpendicular to the property
>line).
> > Is this going to noticable affect the performance.
> >
> > Thanks for any help/ideas.
> >
> > Dick Williams  K8ZTT
> > Franktown CO
> >
> >
> > List Sponsored by AN Wireless:  AN Wireless handles Rohn tower systems,
> > Trylon Titan towers, coax, hardline and more. Also check out our self
> > supporting towers up to 100 feet for under $1500!!
>http://www.anwireless.com
> >
> > -----
> > FAQ on WWW:               http://www.contesting.com/FAQ/towertalk
> > Submissions:              towertalk@contesting.com
> > Administrative requests:  towertalk-REQUEST@contesting.com
> > Problems:                 owner-towertalk@contesting.com
> >
>
>
>List Sponsored by AN Wireless:  AN Wireless handles Rohn tower systems,
>Trylon Titan towers, coax, hardline and more. Also check out our self
>supporting towers up to 100 feet for under $1500!!  http://www.anwireless.com
>
>-----
>FAQ on WWW:               http://www.contesting.com/FAQ/towertalk
>Submissions:              towertalk@contesting.com
>Administrative requests:  towertalk-REQUEST@contesting.com
>Problems:                 owner-towertalk@contesting.com


List Sponsored by AN Wireless:  AN Wireless handles Rohn tower systems,
Trylon Titan towers, coax, hardline and more. Also check out our self
supporting towers up to 100 feet for under $1500!!  http://www.anwireless.com

-----
FAQ on WWW:               http://www.contesting.com/FAQ/towertalk
Submissions:              towertalk@contesting.com
Administrative requests:  towertalk-REQUEST@contesting.com
Problems:                 owner-towertalk@contesting.com