> IIRC, NEC-4 modeling with "poor" ground showed a gain improvement of > 2 dB at most elevation angles Remember, the original posting was for a NVIS antenna, i.e. signal going straight up. EZNEC reported a modest straight up gain (half a db) for a dipole at 96' with a reflector at 80' (ground error of EZNEC not a factor?) k7puc