[Towertalk] Re: Towertalk digest, Vol 1 #699 - 14 msgs
Rudy Marcelletti, K8SWD
rudym@net-link.net
Tue, 19 Nov 2002 22:38:07 -0500
Some bad 15 meter traps escaped CC about the time the antennas were first
released. You may have received one of the bad batches. I found this out
from one of the antenna desingers who no longer works there. The traps are
good, but were mislabled and go to a different antenna. I had the same
problem you did with my X7. It was brand new up on the tower. I had my
annalyzer over a friends trying to get his vertical R7000 to play (we gave
up and he got a refund) so I went home, climbed the tower to 100 feet and
hooked up my annalyzer (no coax to the beam yet) and man was I pissed! 10
was good, 15 was out of band and 20 was way off. After I got the traps sent
to me free FedEx next day (they would not pay for the crane!) we put them
on, along with a manual update, did the dimension changes, and all was
pretty well. I don't need a tuner anywhere with this anntenna, except at
the edges of 10 meters if I really want to. Works good now.
Rudy Marcelletti, K8SWD
----- Original Message -----
From: <towertalk-request@contesting.com>
To: <towertalk@contesting.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2002 7:07 PM
Subject: Towertalk digest, Vol 1 #699 - 14 msgs
Send Towertalk mailing list submissions to
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Towertalk digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Double posts... (Tim Makins, EI8IC)
2. Re: Double posts... (Hisashi T Fujinaka)
3. RE: tower joint Conductivity ??? (brewerj@squared.com)
4. Re: Double posts... (Pete Smith)
5. RE: Cushcraft X9 .. Bad trap? (ac7nj@bentonrea.com)
6. Re: Cushcraft X9 .. Bad trap? (Dave Hough, W7GK)
7. Re: tower joint Conductivity ??? (Mark .)
8. Re: How do you calibrate a CDE rotor? (K4BEV@aol.com)
9. Re: tower mast = to pin OR not to pin (n4kg@juno.com)
10. Re: EZNEC rohn 25 model (n4kg@juno.com)
11. Re: Cushcraft X9 .. Bad trap? (Howard Klein)
12. Re: Re: [Towertalk] How do you calibrate a CDE rotor?
(mcduffie@actcom.net)
13. Re: tower mast = to pin OR not to pin (Mark)
14. Re: Double posts... (mcduffie@actcom.net)
--__--__--
Message: 1
From: "Tim Makins, EI8IC" <contesting@eircom.net>
To: "TowerTalk" <towertalk@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [Towertalk] Double posts...
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 19:52:27 -0000
I agree, and suspect that many interesting comments are lost to the group
because a person gets into the habit of pressing 'Reply' rather than 'Reply
All'. The email goes to the original poster, but not to the group. The
sender may or may not even notice.
Tim EI8IC www.qsl.net/ei8ic/
Newbie and Budget Contester Resources.
Useful Maps, and Flags for Webmasters.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dino Darling" <k6rix@arrl.net>
To: <towertalk@contesting.com>
Sent: 19 November 2002 19:57
Subject: [Towertalk] Double posts...
> ...
> Being that this group is about the open discussion of towers and antennas,
> all replies should automatically go BACK to the list (for everyone to
> see). As it is now, people have to MANUALLY include this list in their
> replies along WITH the original sender and those in the cc field.
>....
> What do YOU think?
--__--__--
Message: 2
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 12:33:50 -0800 (PST)
From: Hisashi T Fujinaka <htodd@twofifty.com>
To: Dino Darling <k6rix@arrl.net>
cc: towertalk@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [Towertalk] Double posts...
The way the software is set up (I am confirming it now) the reply goes to
you and the cc goes to the list.
I'm giving you another double here for testing purposes. If you want it
changed, ask Steve.
On Tue, 19 Nov 2002, Dino Darling wrote:
> Am I the only person getting double posts from this list? Maybe a little
> manual editing is needed before hitting the send button!
>
> Also, since I subscribe to this list, just responding to the list would
get
> me the message. I'm getting "LPDA" messages that I'm not even included in
> the conversation only because I asked the initial question.
>
> Being that this group is about the open discussion of towers and antennas,
> all replies should automatically go BACK to the list (for everyone to
> see). As it is now, people have to MANUALLY include this list in their
> replies along WITH the original sender and those in the cc field.
>
> I personally delete the original sender and replace it with the TOWERTALK
> address. No need to send it twice! It really as easy as highlighting the
> "to" field and inserting towertalk@contesting.com.
>
> If this was a broadcast list (like FOR SALE lists) then it would make
sense
> to direct replies to the sender. To me, Tower Talk is a roundtable
without
> a radio, microphone, and antenna. If we were on the air, we would all
hear
> the various replies and learn from them.
>
> I know replies to the list are frowned on by some list masters, but it is
a
> better idea especially for this list! I run it the same way for lists I
> manage and it works perfect! Everyone is in the loop then!
>
> If you do need to reply to the sender, THEN you can manually reply to
> them...not manually every time as you do now.
>
> What do YOU think?
>
> :-)
>
> Dino...k6rix@arrl.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> AN Wireless Self Supporting Towers at discounted prices,
> See http://www.mscomputer.com
>
> Wireless Weather Stations now $349.95. Call Toll Free,
> 888-333-9041 for additional information.
> _______________________________________________
> Towertalk mailing list
> Towertalk@contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>
--
Hisashi T Fujinaka - htodd@twofifty.com
BSEE (6/86) + BSChem (3/95) + BAEnglish (8/95) + $2.50 = mocha latte
--__--__--
Message: 3
Subject: RE: [Towertalk] tower joint Conductivity ???
To: towertalk@contesting.com
From: brewerj@squared.com
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 15:40:11 -0500
Sounds like a small conductive jumper (strap/braid) attached via the bolts
holding the sections together might solve this issue in short order!
73
John wb5oau
--__--__--
Message: 4
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 15:47:45 -0500
To: "Tim Makins, EI8IC" <contesting@eircom.net>,
"TowerTalk" <towertalk@contesting.com>
From: Pete Smith <n4zr@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [Towertalk] Double posts...
At 07:52 PM 11/19/02 +0000, Tim Makins, EI8IC wrote:
>I agree, and suspect that many interesting comments are lost to the group
>because a person gets into the habit of pressing 'Reply' rather than 'Reply
>All'. The email goes to the original poster, but not to the group. The
>sender may or may not even notice.
Yes, everyone please consider whether your response to a list posting
should go to the list and not just to the sender. But please let's not
make that the default -- I belong to only one list where it is, and all
sorts of personal messages not intended for the group wind up being
broadcast, when all the sender meant was a one-on-one e-mail.
73, Pete N4ZR
Sometimes a tower is just a tower
--__--__--
Message: 5
From: <ac7nj@bentonrea.com>
To: "'Tony Wanschura'" <tonyjw@mindspring.com>, <towertalk@contesting.com>
Subject: RE: [Towertalk] Cushcraft X9 .. Bad trap?
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 13:15:27 -0800
Tony,
If you find the answer let me know I have a x9 I just purchased used and
it is not up yet. I'm also thinking of finding a 40M kit for it
Randy
AC7NJ
-----Original Message-----
From: towertalk-admin@contesting.com
[mailto:towertalk-admin@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Tony Wanschura
Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2002 9:29 AM
To: towertalk@contesting.com
Subject: [Towertalk] Cushcraft X9 .. Bad trap?
Immediately after putting up my Cushcraft X9 (with 40 meter add-on)
about 3 years ago, I noted that the SWR on 15 and 20 meters was not as
it should be. 10 meters was pretty much okay, but 15 and 20 were way out
of range. On 15, SWR ranged from 2:1 at the bottom of the band to 5:1 at
the top. On 20, the range was 3:1 at the bottom of the band and 2:1 at
the top. A Minnesota winter was closing in, I operate almost entirely
CW, and my rig's autotuner could deal with it. So I let the problem go
until the following spring.
Working on the assumption that I must have made a mistake in element
dimensions, I took down the antenna and re-measured every dimension
twice, finding a couple of 1/8 inch errors here and there. I put the
antenna back up and, of course, nothing had changed. Discouraged, I
walked away from the problem for nearly a year.
This summer, I took the antenna down again, re-checked all measurements,
removed the 40-meter element, and put the antenna back up. No
improvement. All of this was a lot of work, since I have a guyed tower,
with wire antennas hanging from it, and a 6-meter beam stacked above. I
removed the wire antennas and the 6-meter beam. Still no improvement.
I replaced the coax. No change.
I am certain that all of the antenna dimensions are okay. The tower is
50 feet tall, with nothing around it that might cause an SWR problem.
This leaves the traps as the cause of the problem. I suspect an outer
(15/20 meter) trap on the first director.
My questions are:
Does the behavior described above suggest a trap problem?
Has anyone else had a similar problem with the X7 or X9?
Thanks,
Tony
KM0O
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---
_______________________________________________
AN Wireless Self Supporting Towers at discounted prices,
See http://www.mscomputer.com
Wireless Weather Stations now $349.95. Call Toll Free,
888-333-9041 for additional information.
_______________________________________________
Towertalk mailing list
Towertalk@contesting.com
http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
--__--__--
Message: 6
Reply-To: "Dave Hough, W7GK" <w7gk@qsl.net>
From: "Dave Hough, W7GK" <w7gk@qsl.net>
To: "Tony Wanschura" <tonyjw@mindspring.com>
Cc: <towertalk@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [Towertalk] Cushcraft X9 .. Bad trap?
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 13:26:00 -0800
Yes, that was a problem with those antennas. The first ones produced had 1
part number for a trap and the later ones had another part no. for the same
trap.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Wanschura" <tonyjw@mindspring.com>
To: <towertalk@contesting.com>
Sent: 19 November, 2002 09 29
Subject: [Towertalk] Cushcraft X9 .. Bad trap?
Immediately after putting up my Cushcraft X9 (with 40 meter add-on) about 3
years ago, I noted that the SWR on 15 and 20 meters was not as it should be.
10 meters was pretty much okay, but 15 and 20 were way out of range. On 15,
SWR ranged from 2:1 at the bottom of the band to 5:1 at the top.. On 20, the
range was 3:1 at the bottom of the band and 2:1 at the top. A Minnesota
winter was closing in, I operate almost entirely CW, and my rig's autotuner
could deal with it. So I let the problem go until the following spring.
Working on the assumption that I must have made a mistake in element
dimensions, I took down the antenna and re-measured every dimension twice,
finding a couple of 1/8 inch errors here and there. I put the antenna back
up and, of course, nothing had changed. Discouraged, I walked away from the
problem for nearly a year.
This summer, I took the antenna down again, re-checked all measurements,
removed the 40-meter element, and put the antenna back up. No improvement..
All of this was a lot of work, since I have a guyed tower, with wire
antennas hanging from it, and a 6-meter beam stacked above. I removed the
wire antennas and the 6-meter beam. Still no improvement.
I replaced the coax. No change.
I am certain that all of the antenna dimensions are okay. The tower is 50
feet tall, with nothing around it that might cause an SWR problem. This
leaves the traps as the cause of the problem. I suspect an outer (15/20
meter) trap on the first director.
My questions are:
Does the behavior described above suggest a trap problem?
Has anyone else had a similar problem with the X7 or X9?
Thanks,
Tony
KM0O
--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
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text/plain (text body -- kept)
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---
_______________________________________________
AN Wireless Self Supporting Towers at discounted prices,
See http://www.mscomputer.com
Wireless Weather Stations now $349.95. Call Toll Free,
888-333-9041 for additional information.
_______________________________________________
Towertalk mailing list
Towertalk@contesting.com
http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
--__--__--
Message: 7
From: "Mark ." <n1lo@hotmail.com>
To: towertalk@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [Towertalk] tower joint Conductivity ???
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 16:59:23 -0500
I used zinc-filled anti-sieze paste on my Rohn 25 joints. This stuff is
essentially a heavy grease, filled with metal particles. I Pre-lubed the
sockets on the ground. Note that there is more than one type of fill for
anti-sieze pastes. Do NOT use copper-filled. If it looks silver-gray it
should be OK. Just putting grease on there is half the battle, by excluding
oxygen and moisture.
--...MARK_N1LO...--
_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
--__--__--
Message: 8
From: K4BEV@aol.com
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 17:25:04 EST
Subject: Re: [Towertalk] How do you calibrate a CDE rotor?
To: Towertalk@contesting.com
In a message dated 11/19/02 07:42:18 Central Standard Time, kb9cry@attbi.com
writes:
> Turn the antenna all the way to the left, ccw. Now push in the calibrate
> button and the meter should swing over to the right side. Turn the same
> knob
> so the meter lines up with the right side south position. Now push in the
> same
> to know get out of the calibration. Push it in but don't turn it while
you
> do
> it. All should be ok now. Phil KB9CRY
>
That did it. Thanks Phil, and to everyone who replied.
I would have never known that the calibrate pot had a button built in!
Also thanks for this list! It's been most helpful to me in many, many
aspects.
73, Don - K4BEV
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--__--__--
Message: 9
To: TOWERTALK@CONTESTING.COM
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 10:14:45 -0600
Subject: Re: [Towertalk] tower mast = to pin OR not to pin
From: n4kg@juno.com
How much sunlight can reach a piece of rubber that is
" sandwiched between the rotator clamps and the mast" ?
Tom N4KG
On Mon, 18 Nov 2002 11:28:44 EST N4CW@aol.com writes:
> In a message dated 11/18/2002 11:22:38 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> n4kg@juno.com writes:
>
> << IF you still insist on reducing the likelihood of mast slippage,
> place a thin sheet of rubber between the mast and the rotor. >>
>
> I've known of a fellow using (automobile) radiator hose for that
> application.
> He got a straight piece, split it into two halves lengthwise and
> sandwiched
> it between the rotator clamps and the mast. It seems to hold up
> pretty well in sunlight. I wouldn't give rubber a long life in
sunlight...
> Just a suggestion...
> 73, Bert N4CW
________________________________________________________________
Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today
Only $9.95 per month!
Visit www.juno.com
--__--__--
Message: 10
To: TOWERTALK@CONTESTING.COM
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 10:08:37 -0600
Subject: Re: [Towertalk] EZNEC rohn 25 model
From: n4kg@juno.com
Another alternative might be to simply model the 3 legs (1.25 inch
diameter) at the appropriate positions and connected at the top and
bottom.
I believe someone reported that a single cylinder of 8? or 9? inch
diameter was a close approximation to R25 for modeling verticals.
Does anyone remember the exact number?
Tom N4KG
On Mon, 18 Nov 2002 "Mark ." <n1lo@hotmail.com> writes:
> << Does anyone have a EZNEC model of the Rohn 25 tower they share
> with me?
> Larry, W5NCD >>
>
> I accomplished this in NEC-WIN-BASIC by simply making the tower a
> single
> conductor having a 1 foot diameter. Likewise, the guys are single
> conductors
> of the appropriate diameter. I'm not positive that this is highly
> accurate,
> but it seemed like a good compromise as opposed to trying to
> separate all
> the legs and braces into individual elements.
>
> --...MARK_N1LO...--
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________
Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today
Only $9.95 per month!
Visit www.juno.com
--__--__--
Message: 11
Reply-To: k2hk@arrl.net
From: "Howard Klein" <howk2@hotmail.com>
To: w7gk@qsl.net
Cc: towertalk@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [Towertalk] Cushcraft X9 .. Bad trap?
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 23:56:20 +0000
I have had 3 X-9's, two are currently up and active and have not had such a
problem. SWR on all bands is as advertised.
Howard..k2Hk
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Dave Hough, W7GK" <w7gk@qsl.net>
Reply-To: "Dave Hough, W7GK" <w7gk@qsl.net>
To: "Tony Wanschura" <tonyjw@mindspring.com>
CC: <towertalk@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [Towertalk] Cushcraft X9 .. Bad trap?
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 13:26:00 -0800
Yes, that was a problem with those antennas. The first ones produced had 1
part number for a trap and the later ones had another part no. for the same
trap.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Wanschura" <tonyjw@mindspring.com>
To: <towertalk@contesting.com>
Sent: 19 November, 2002 09 29
Subject: [Towertalk] Cushcraft X9 .. Bad trap?
Immediately after putting up my Cushcraft X9 (with 40 meter add-on) about 3
years ago, I noted that the SWR on 15 and 20 meters was not as it should be.
10 meters was pretty much okay, but 15 and 20 were way out of range. On 15,
SWR ranged from 2:1 at the bottom of the band to 5:1 at the top. On 20, the
range was 3:1 at the bottom of the band and 2:1 at the top. A Minnesota
winter was closing in, I operate almost entirely CW, and my rig's autotuner
could deal with it. So I let the problem go until the following spring.
Working on the assumption that I must have made a mistake in element
dimensions, I took down the antenna and re-measured every dimension twice,
finding a couple of 1/8 inch errors here and there. I put the antenna back
up and, of course, nothing had changed. Discouraged, I walked away from the
problem for nearly a year.
This summer, I took the antenna down again, re-checked all measurements,
removed the 40-meter element, and put the antenna back up. No improvement..
All of this was a lot of work, since I have a guyed tower, with wire
antennas hanging from it, and a 6-meter beam stacked above. I removed the
wire antennas and the 6-meter beam. Still no improvement.
I replaced the coax. No change.
I am certain that all of the antenna dimensions are okay. The tower is 50
feet tall, with nothing around it that might cause an SWR problem. This
leaves the traps as the cause of the problem. I suspect an outer (15/20
meter) trap on the first director.
My questions are:
Does the behavior described above suggest a trap problem?
Has anyone else had a similar problem with the X7 or X9?
Thanks,
Tony
KM0O
--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
text/plain (text body -- kept)
text/html
---
_______________________________________________
AN Wireless Self Supporting Towers at discounted prices,
See http://www.mscomputer.com
Wireless Weather Stations now $349.95. Call Toll Free,
888-333-9041 for additional information.
_______________________________________________
Towertalk mailing list
Towertalk@contesting.com
http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
_______________________________________________
AN Wireless Self Supporting Towers at discounted prices,
See http://www.mscomputer.com
Wireless Weather Stations now $349.95. Call Toll Free,
888-333-9041 for additional information.
_______________________________________________
Towertalk mailing list
Towertalk@contesting.com
http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
_________________________________________________________________
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--__--__--
Message: 12
From: mcduffie@actcom.net
To: towertalk@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Re: [Towertalk] How do you calibrate a CDE rotor?
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 16:56:14 -0700
Reply-To: ag0n@arrl.net
On Tue, 19 Nov 2002 17:25:04 EST, K4BEV@aol.com wrote:
> I would have never known that the calibrate pot had a button built in!
I had my T2X over ten years before someone on the list pointed that fact out
to me also. I just did it the old fashioned way by rotating it to the
opposite end.
Gary
a g 0 n at a r r l dot n e t
http colon slash slash mcduffie dot ws
--
--__--__--
Message: 13
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 16:01:22 -0800
From: Mark <aa6dx@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: [Towertalk] tower mast = to pin OR not to pin
To: TOWERTALK@CONTESTING.COM, n4kg@juno.com
Reply-to: Mark <AA6DX@pacbell.net>
I DO NOT recommend pinning masts. Did that ONCE .. worked swell, for
about 1 1/2 years . then, cost me beaucoup bux to fix rotatator .. actually,
just replaced it .. and gave the busted one to the dipsty dumpster! I did
lose, like twice, my RG-213 connecting cables I was using those days ..
might have even been the REAL RG-8 .. don't `member ...`cuz it got wrapped
around the mast a couple times. Way easier to replace then the rotator
(`member, a rotor is something that goes around your `57 Chebbie distributor
... a rotator swings your aluminum from hither to yon!) =];?} ) 73 ....
all the regards that any ham needs .. de AA6DX
----- Original Message -----
From: <n4kg@juno.com>
To: <TOWERTALK@CONTESTING.COM>
Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2002 8:14 AM
Subject: Re: [Towertalk] tower mast = to pin OR not to pin
> How much sunlight can reach a piece of rubber that is
> " sandwiched between the rotator clamps and the mast" ?
>
> Tom N4KG
>
> On Mon, 18 Nov 2002 11:28:44 EST N4CW@aol.com writes:
> > In a message dated 11/18/2002 11:22:38 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> > n4kg@juno.com writes:
> >
> > << IF you still insist on reducing the likelihood of mast slippage,
> > place a thin sheet of rubber between the mast and the rotor. >>
> >
> > I've known of a fellow using (automobile) radiator hose for that
> > application.
> > He got a straight piece, split it into two halves lengthwise and
> > sandwiched
> > it between the rotator clamps and the mast. It seems to hold up
> > pretty well in sunlight. I wouldn't give rubber a long life in
> sunlight...
> > Just a suggestion...
> > 73, Bert N4CW
>
--__--__--
Message: 14
From: mcduffie@actcom.net
To: towertalk@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [Towertalk] Double posts...
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 17:04:35 -0700
Reply-To: ag0n@arrl.net
On Tue, 19 Nov 2002 11:57:49 -0800, Dino Darling wrote:
> It really as easy as highlighting the "to" field and inserting
> towertalk@contesting.com.
It's easier than that. Just create an alias called tt (or whatever you
want). Then highlight the To field and type tt.
> What do YOU think?
I think all lists should reply to the list. If you want to include the
originator, fine, but the list is first priority. JMO.
AGØN
a g 0 n at a r r l dot n e t
http colon slash slash mcduffie dot ws
--
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End of Towertalk Digest