[Towertalk] 40M 4 Sq vs. 2 el Yagi at 70 ft

[Guy Olinger, K2AV]

Just for clarity, what you described is not a 4-square in the ordinary
sense. The current maximum in your conductors is many feet off the
ground. (How high was the center of the lazy vee dipoles?) A typical 4
square has the current max right at or a few feet off the ground. If
the centers were 70-100 feet, it WOULD play like a 2 element shorty
forty.

A bit of apples vs. oranges here.

73, Guy.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry L Lindblom" <llindblom@juno.com>
To: <k2av@contesting.com>
Cc: <towertalk@contesting.com>; <wz7i@arrl.net>
Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2002 10:38 AM
Subject: Re: [Towertalk] 40M 4 Sq vs. 2 el Yagi at 70 ft


> A couple years back I had an M2 2-el 40 on tower #2 at 128 ft and a
lazy
> vee vertical dipole 4 square for 40 meters on tower #1 below a TH-7
which
> was at 123 ft.  In A/B comparisons there was no clear winner between
the
> two 40 meter antennas.  Which of the antennas was "slightly better"
than
> the other varied from night to night or the path involved.
>
> Of course everyone on the reflector with a 2-el 40 told me there
must be
> something wrong with mine.  But, none of those comments seemed to be
> based on those people doing an A/B comparison.  In the end maybe it
> simply proved on can never have too many antennas on any band!
>
> 73
>
> W0ETC
>
>
> On Fri, 11 Oct 2002 22:40:34 -0400 "Guy Olinger, K2AV"
> <k2av@contesting.com> writes:
> > A two element 40 meter "shorty forty" at 70 feet and up is a
fixture
> > among contesters that can't put up the monsters.
> >
> > Suggest to any one of them that they should replace it with a
> > four-square and see what reaction you get.
> >
> > A forty 4 square is what you do if the shorty forty is out of the
> > question, and dipoles off the tower at 65 feet mess up the
> > tribander.
> >
> > 73, Guy.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Wes Cosand" <wz7i@arrl.net>
> > To: <towertalk@contesting.com>
> > Sent: Friday, October 11, 2002 8:59 PM
> > Subject: [Towertalk] 40M 4 Sq vs. 2 el Yagi at 70 ft
> >
> >
> > > K7LXC's recent comment about yagis vs. 4 square arrays got me
> > > thinking.  Has someone done a careful comparison of these two
> > antennas for
> > > 40 meters?
> > >
> > > I have relocated and have to build a new station and I am torn
> > between
> > > these two alternatives.  Although performance is important, the
> > station
> > > will not necessarily be used for contesting.  The initial cost
is
> > not as
> > > important as reliability and freedom from maintenance.
> > >
> > > I have previously had a 40M 4 square that was carefully
installed
> > with the
> > > DX Engineering phasing network.  I was never tremendously
> > impressed
> > with
> > > the performance but I never had the opportunity to compare it to
> > a
> > > yagi.  And it certainly didn't require much care and feeding--
it
> > just worked.
> > >
> > > I had decided to replace the vertical array at the new station
> > with
> > a 2
> > > element yagi at 70 or 80 feet, perhaps 12 feet above my five
band
> > > beam.  But the 40M yagi means that the total installation will
be
> > much
> > > higher than the 50 or 60 feet tower I could get by with if 20
> > meters
> > was my
> > > lowest freq antenna.  The tower and rotor must be significantly
> > > beefier,  and I am concerned that it will add to the maintenance
> > > needs.  (The tower must be self supporting.)
> > >
> > > So why did ON4UN's 1998 survey indicate that among the top 100
> > DXers
> > who
> > > responded about 40M antennas, 35% of them used 2 el yagis and
> > only
> > 7% used
> > > phased verticals?  ON4UN said his survey indicated that at that
> > time
> > > Cushcraft and Hy-Gain 2 element yagis were "extremely popular on
> > 40meters".
> > >
> > > Wes, WZ7I
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > AN Wireless Self Supporting Towers at discounted prices,
> > > See http://www.mscomputer.com
> > >
> > > Wireless Weather Stations now $349.95. Call Toll Free,
> > > 888-333-9041 for additional information.
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Towertalk mailing list
> > > Towertalk@contesting.com
> > > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
> > >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > AN Wireless Self Supporting Towers at discounted prices,
> > See http://www.mscomputer.com
> >
> > Wireless Weather Stations now $349.95. Call Toll Free,
> > 888-333-9041 for additional information.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Towertalk mailing list
> > Towertalk@contesting.com
> > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> AN Wireless Self Supporting Towers at discounted prices,
> See http://www.mscomputer.com
>
> Wireless Weather Stations now $349.95. Call Toll Free,
> 888-333-9041 for additional information.
> _______________________________________________
> Towertalk mailing list
> Towertalk@contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>