[TowerTalk] Re: Arrows TowerTalk Digest, Vol 8, Issue 18
joegps
joegps at snet.net
Wed Aug 6 04:12:46 EDT 2003
Hi All,
I always removed the arrow point and put a little tape
over the end.
Joe K1NCO
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. RE: Sealing of connectors (Dick Green)
> 2. I shot an arrow into the air..... (Jim Jarvis)
> 3. Re: Buried conduit (was Pull rope) (Sid
> Ashen-Brenner)
> 4. Re: Old coax connectors . . . (bruce makas)
> 5. Re: Hazards of towers and other items (Carl
> Smidt)
> 6. Fw: [TowerTalk] Mast Collars (Jim W7RY)
> 7. Re: Twin-coax balanced line (Michael Tope)
> 8. tower fall (Jim Jarvis)
> 9. G5RV or W5GI antenna which is better? Hmmmmm
> (Jack)
> 10. Looking for jfolk (WA9ALS - John)
> 11. Re: Twin-coax balanced line (Chuck Counselman)
>
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 18:39:04 -0400
> From: "Dick Green" <dick.green at valley.net>
> To: "'Roger D. Johnson'" <n1rj at pivot.net>,
> TowerTalk at contesting.com
> Subject: RE: [TowerTalk] Sealing of connectors
> Message-ID: <004101c35ba2$64b4b5a0$d00a460a at Desktop>
> In-Reply-To: <3F301A30.5020609 at pivot.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
> Precedence: list
> Reply-To: dick.green at valley.net
> Message: 1
>
> Cushcraft packs little tubes of silicone grease with
> their coax booties.
> It's never been clear to me exactly where it should
> be applied. Seems to me
> that if applied to the threads it would interfere
> with proper metal-to-metal
> electrical contract. I've found another use for it
> though -- I apply it to
> the coax jacket before screwing on the connector.
> Sure makes it easier to do
> that part.
>
> 73, Dick WC1M
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Roger D. Johnson [mailto:n1rj at pivot.net]
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2003 3:57 PM
> > To: TowerTalk at contesting.com
> > Subject: [TowerTalk] Sealing of connectors
> >
> >
> > Here's the method we used in the Navy/Coast
> Guard to
> > weatherproof shipboard connectors. I don't think
> you can find
> > a worse environment than salt spray driven by gale
> force winds!
> >
> > First, wrap the connector with the self
> vulcanizing tape.
> > This tape is stretchy and conforms to the
> connector avoiding
> > air pockets. It will stick to itself but only
> lightly to the
> > connector. As this tape degrades under
> ultraviolet, it must
> > be covered with a wrap of vinyl tape. Finally, the
> whole
> > thing is covered with some type of coating. We
> used
> > Scotchcoat but others might be more available.
> This final
> > coating seals up any gaps in the vinyl tape and
> keeps the end
> > from coming unstuck.
> >
> > Also, if done properly, a dab of silicone grease
> in the
> > connector prior to mating adds extra insurance.
> The best
> > thing to use is the little packets with a nozzle
> such as
> > comes with Andrew connectors. If you try to use a
> regular
> > tube of grease, it will usually get on the outside
> of the
> > connector and the tape will not stick!
> >
> > Believe me, this method has stood up to
> everything the
> > North Atlantic could throw at it. And when it
> comes time to
> > test the antenna, the whole thing peels off
> cleanly after
> > being slit with a knife.
> >
> > 73, Roger
> >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 22:45:45 -0000
> From: "Jim Jarvis" <jimjarvis at comcast.net>
> To: "Towertalk" <towertalk at contesting.com>
> Subject: [TowerTalk] I shot an arrow into the
> air.....
> Message-ID:
> <ONEDKADMCJKDDPMLJEMJMEBICDAA.jimjarvis at comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
> MIME-Version: 1.0
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> Precedence: list
> Message: 2
>
>
> KE3Q's narrative, causes me to wax poetic on the
> same topic
>
> THE DAY WE SHOT THE ROOF:
>
> (guilty parties identified....boy, I wish we'd have
> taken
> that picture when I wanted to!)
>
> I've been using fishing arrows as hoists for the
> last 10 plus
> years, most of them in Vermont, with 140' trees.
>
> In mid-December, I was snaking my 160 meter Carolina
> Windom over
> the 140 foot white pine which was midway in its
> span...and needed
> to run to the hardware store for something.
>
> WJ1Z (sorry, Bob) was helping, and we were using his
> compound
> bow. There was 2 foot of snow on the flatroof of my
> home...and
> to be helpful while I was running the errand, Bob
> shot an arrow
> over the tree. Now, they never go precisely where
> you want them...
> something inevitably gets in the way...and he
> decided to pull it back
> and set up a better shot.
>
> So, here comes the arrow, over a branch 100' in the
> air....a bit of
> back tension, flipping end over end before finally
> stabilizing.
> Point down, straight at my house. The snow
> fine-tuned the arrow's aim,
> right into the membrane roof.
>
> I got back from the hardware store only to be met by
> Bob with a sheepish
> expression on his face...and an offer to pay for the
> damage.
>
> (trocal roofs are easy to fix. We shovelled it off,
> dried it off,
> and patched it with rtv and duct tape. Didn't
> replace the temporary
> patch until mid-summer, when the roofer could get
> there.)
>
> But therein lies the tale....this stuff is
> dangerous! It could as easily
> have been someone's head. As I write this, I have
> a fishing arrow hanging
> from an oak tree over my MD driveway...the game
> tracker string broke and
> tangled around a branch. One day, we're going to
> shoot a car, I suppose.
>
> And then there was the time we were working on the
> FRC club repeater, and
> Bill Smith dropped a wrench from 120'. It passed
> about 6 inches from my
> shoulder, and buried itself in the ground. I NEVER
> work under towers
> now, ALWAYS wear hardhats, and always run my hoist
> lines through a pulley
> and away from the tower, so ground crew is standing
> clear. Having safety
> ties on all tools would be a good idea, too.
>
> n2ea
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2003 17:52:54 -0500
> From: Sid Ashen-Brenner <sashen at swbell.net>
> To: TowerTalk at contesting.com
> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Buried conduit (was Pull
> rope)
> Message-ID:
>
<5.1.1.6.2.20030805174647.02ac37a0 at pop.swbell.yahoo.com>
> In-Reply-To:
> <00d901c35b76$98ec5700$8aaafea9 at DESKTOP>
> References:
>
<20030804114220.6340.h010.c002.wm at mail.peoplepc.com.criticalpath.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii";
> format=flowed
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Precedence: list
> Message: 3
>
>
> If pulling Fiber Optic cable is any
> comparison ... Pulling Fiber
> in "Smurf Tube" is a much easier pull than in
> conduit IF the "Smurf Tube"
> is supported at regular intervals (like it's
> supposed to be). Major reason
> being that there is less surface contact than with
> solid pipe.
>
> DO use a pulling lubricant .. and NOT just
> regular dish
> soap. This is not the right place to save a buck.
>
> Two cents worth from a Hospital Electronic
> Technician (in the Black Hole of
> Kansas)
>
> At 16:05 08/05/2003 +0000, you wrote:
> >I will be interested to learn how the tubing works
> out. I suspect that in a
> >straight run the corrugations would serve as
> bearing surfaces rather than
> >snag magnets, but you will find out and hopefully
> report.
> >
> >And the second empty pipe is a great idea. Our
> cables must be little more
> >than rabbits as they sure do multiply fast.
> >
> >de Paul, W8AEF
> >
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------
> >ZF2TA FO8DX FO0PLA 8Q7AA XZ0A
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Mike Gilmer, N2MG" <n2mg at eham.net>
> >To: <towertalk at contesting.com>
> >Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 6:42 PM
> >Subject: [TowerTalk] Buried conduit (was Pull rope)
> >
> >
> > > I'm planning on running all my wires through the
> > > cheap, corrugated black 6" tubing. At first it
> looks
> > > like the pipe might be less than ideal (all the
> > > corrugations appear to be snag "magnets").
> However,
> > > if I make certain that the leading edge of the
> wire
> > > bundle is rounded over well, I don't see it
> being much
> > > of a problem (famous last words) to pull it
> through.
> > > Has anyone had experience with this black stuff?
> > >
> > > An obvious plus: creating gentle bends in the
> pipe as
> > > it is installed will be easier than with the
> "hard
> > > stuff".
> > >
> > > I plan to bury a second empty one in the same
> trench
> > > for future use.
> > >
> > > Mike N2MG
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >
> >See: http://www.mscomputer.com for "Self
> Supporting Towers", "Wireless
> >Weather Stations", and lot's more. Call Toll Free,
> 1-800-333-9041 with
> >any questions and ask for Sherman, W2FLA.
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >TowerTalk mailing list
> >TowerTalk at contesting.com
>
>http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>
> Sid Ashen-Brenner Salina, Kansas N0OBM EM18et
> Internet : sashen at swbell.net or n0obm at qsl.net
> Home page: http://www.qsl.net/n0obm
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 16:25:23 -0700
> From: "bruce makas" <k1my at msn.com>
> To: "Towertalk submital" <towertalk at contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Old coax connectors . . .
> Message-ID:
> <010a01c35ba8$d9759160$0101a8c0 at pavilion>
> References: <16d.201fa2d3.2c5c8f0e at aol.com>
>
>
<3F2BFCE5.9050006 at charter.net><007b01c35947$944b78b0$0901a8c0 at DidierHP>
> <3F2FF01B.5030102 at charter.net>
> <3F300F63.80902 at tampabay.rr.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Precedence: list
> Message: 4
>
> OK, I'll bite. I have seen three kinds of insulation
> on the PL 259's; brown,
> white and clear. Is there a performance difference?
> Is one considered
> better?
>
> 73, Bruce K1MY
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 20:51:17 -0300
> From: "Carl Smidt" <smidtca at sprint.ca>
> To: <paule at sfu.ca>
> Cc: towertalk at contesting.com
> Subject: [TowerTalk] Re: Hazards of towers and other
> items
> Message-ID:
> <003001c35bac$78d9fb80$db806395 at MyComputer>
> References:
> <200308052124.h75LOwhD007566 at rm-rstar.sfu.ca>
> Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Precedence: list
> Message: 5
>
> Thanks very much Paul, hilarious.
>
> 73, Carl VE9OV
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <paule at sfu.ca>
> To: <smidtca at sprint.ca>
> Cc: <cq-contest at contesting.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2003 6:24 PM
> Subject: Re: Hazards of towers and other items
>
>
> > Try
> >
> > Here is the original version:
> >
> >
>
http://www-cs-students.stanford.edu/~dufour/HUMOR/EIT.html
> >
>
http://www.darwinawards.com/legends/legends1998-08.html
> >
> > Here is the ham version:
> >
> >
>
http://lists.contesting.com/_towertalk/1997-July/006860.html
> >
> > cheers, Paul - VA7NT ex VE7CQK - email:
> paule at sfu.ca
> > "Those who hear not the music. . . think the
> dancers mad."
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 18:06:15 -0700
> From: "Jim W7RY" <w7ry at centurytel.net>
> To: <Towertalk at contesting.com>
> Subject: Fw: [TowerTalk] Mast Collars
> Message-ID:
> <003b01c35bb6$efcbeb40$ac00a8c0 at JimsLaptop>
> Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Precedence: list
> Message: 6
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim W7RY" <w7ry at centurytel.net>
> To: <k4oj at tampabay.rr.com>
> Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 8:42 PM
> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Mast Collars
>
>
> > Use a "riser clamp". They are used to hold
> vertical runs of pipe in large
> > buildings.
> >
> > When the concrete is poured, large holes are put
> into the concrete for
> > running such vertical runs of building fire
> sprinklers.
> >
> > Next time your in a stair well in a large
> building, look at the fire
> > sprinkler pipes running vertical through the
> concrete. They are supported
> in
> > the
> >
> > large holes in the concrete by "riser clamps".
> >
> > They are available from large industrial plumbing
> distributiers. Or stop
> by
> > the construction site and ask for one.
> >
> > 73 and good luck!
> > Jim W7RY
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Jim White, K4OJ" <k4oj at tampabay.rr.com>
> > To: "Larry Emery" <k1uo at prexar.com>
> > Cc: <Towertalk at contesting.com>
> > Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 7:44 PM
> > Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Mast Collars
> >
> >
> > > Some of the locals use a u-bolt with a saddle...
> I prefer to use a
> > > Hygain toothed boom to mast mount.
> > >
> > > K4OJ
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Larry Emery wrote:
> > > > Somewhere...recently...I read about using a
> 'Split Collar' to help
> hold
> > a mast
> > > > above the thrust bearing while extending the
> mast above the tower
> before
> > > > installing the rotor. Hope this makes sense?
> > > > Question here is where can one get those split
> collars?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks, Larry K1UO
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> _______________________________________________
> > > >
> > > > See: http://www.mscomputer.com for "Self
> Supporting Towers",
> "Wireless
> > Weather Stations", and lot's more. Call Toll
> Free, 1-800-333-9041 with
> any
> > questions and ask for Sherman, W2FLA.
> > > >
> > > >
> _______________________________________________
> > > > TowerTalk mailing list
> > > > TowerTalk at contesting.com
> > > >
>
http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > >
> > > See: http://www.mscomputer.com for "Self
> Supporting Towers", "Wireless
> > Weather Stations", and lot's more. Call Toll
> Free, 1-800-333-9041 with
> any
> > questions and ask for Sherman, W2FLA.
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > TowerTalk mailing list
> > > TowerTalk at contesting.com
> > >
>
http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 18:17:13 -0700
> From: "Michael Tope" <W4EF at dellroy.com>
> To: <towertalk at contesting.com>, "Chuck Counselman"
> <ccc at space.mit.edu>
> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Twin-coax balanced line
> Message-ID: <03da01c35bb8$77fc7650$0100a8c0 at 1800XP>
> References: <p04320404bb55c8051718@[192.168.0.2]>
> Precedence: list
> Message: 7
>
> Yes, Chuck, I ran similar calculations and found
> that I needed to
> go with at least 7/8" heliax in order to be
> competitive with open
> wire line when trying to feed antennas with very
> high input
> impedances. If you have a sturdy tower and can find
> the line
> used for a good price, it does offer than advantage
> of shielding
> which alleviates the problem associated with routing
> open
> wire line. The other approach is try to find a quasi
> broadband
> antenna that offers a better than ~6:1 VSWR (ref 50
> ohms)
> over the frequencies of interest. This also makes
> the tradeoff
> a little better.
>
> 73 de Mike,
> W4EF...........................................
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chuck Counselman" <ccc at space.mit.edu>
> To: <towertalk at contesting.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2003 2:03 PM
> Subject: [TowerTalk] Twin-coax balanced line
>
>
> > Twin coax is _not_ always a good, or even a fair,
> substitute for
> > open-wire line. Here's an illustration of how bad
> it could be.
> >
> > The driving-point impedance of my quasi-G5RV
> doublet for f = 10.1 MHz
> > is equal to ( 2020 - j 3126 ) ohms, according to a
> NEC-4 simulation
> > using all the exact dimensions, realistic soil
> parameters, etc.
> > Divide this value by two to get what one of the
> two coaxial cables
> > would see: ( 1010 - j 1563) ohms. Put this halved
> value into W9CF's
> > transmission-line calculator
> <http://fermi.la.asu.edu/w9cf/tran/>
> > with just 15 meters of RG-8A or RG-213 and you
> find that the loss in
> > this relatively short length of coax would be 5.6
> dB.
> >
> > In other words, nearly three-quarters of my
> transmitted power would
> > be dissipated in the coax. Ouch!
> >
> > OTOH, with 600-ohm ladder line the loss is 0.16 dB
> -- trivial.
> >
> > I use 600-ohm ladder line. Needless to say, I'm
> not about to switch
> > to twin RG-8A. Yes, I know that 30 m is the worst
> band for this
> > antenna, but this is my antenna; I do operate on
> 30 m (as well as 80,
> > 40, 20, 17, 15, 12, and 10 m) with it; and it
> works fine.
> >
> > 73 de Chuck, W1HIS
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > See: http://www.mscomputer.com for "Self
> Supporting Towers", "Wireless
> Weather Stations", and lot's more. Call Toll Free,
> 1-800-333-9041 with any
> questions and ask for Sherman, W2FLA.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TowerTalk mailing list
> > TowerTalk at contesting.com
> >
>
http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 01:29:13 -0000
> From: "Jim Jarvis" <jimjarvis at comcast.net>
> To: "Towertalk" <towertalk at contesting.com>
> Subject: [TowerTalk] tower fall
> Message-ID:
> <ONEDKADMCJKDDPMLJEMJIEBKCDAA.jimjarvis at comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Precedence: list
> Message: 8
>
>
> TT:
>
> There was a recent report of a ham in TX who died
> falling
> from his tower. Don't remember his call. I wasn't
> on the
> reflector when this happened....is there something
> specific
> to be learned from his disaster? If it's been on
> here before,
> msg me privately pse, to save the group repetition.
> If not,
> put it on here, for all to learn from. Thanks in
> advance.
>
> Jim n2ea
> jimjarvis at comcast.net
> All outgoing mail is virus scanned by Norton.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2003 21:38:11 -0400
> From: Jack <videorov at direcway.com>
> To: towertalk at contesting.com
> Subject: [TowerTalk] G5RV or W5GI antenna which is
> better? Hmmmmm
> Message-ID:
> <02a701c35bbb$688feaa0$db81030a at internet>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
> Precedence: list
> Message: 9
>
> Just was wondering, heard some people talking on 20
> about the W5GI?
>
> Jack
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 20:56:02 -0500
> From: "WA9ALS - John" <wa9als at starband.net>
> To: <towertalk at contesting.com>
> Subject: [TowerTalk] Looking for jfolk
> Message-ID: <000901c35bbd$e9433bf0$1c050180 at wa9als>
> Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Precedence: list
> Message: 10
>
> jfolk asked me some questions about my tower today
> and I managed to lose his
> email - something similar to jfolk at rr.com, but
> that's not quite it. Can
> Jeff or anyone else help? tnx
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 22:05:12 -0400
> From: Chuck Counselman <ccc at space.mit.edu>
> To: towertalk at contesting.com
> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Twin-coax balanced line
> Message-ID: <p04320408bb560e1ec0a5@[192.168.0.2]>
> In-Reply-To: <03da01c35bb8$77fc7650$0100a8c0 at 1800XP>
> References: <p04320404bb55c8051718@[192.168.0.2]>
> <03da01c35bb8$77fc7650$0100a8c0 at 1800XP>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ;
> format="flowed"
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Precedence: list
> Message: 11
>
> At 6:17 PM -0700 8/5/03, Michael Tope wrote:
> >Yes, Chuck, I ran similar calculations and found
> that I needed to
> >go with at least 7/8" heliax in order to be
> competitive with open
> >wire line when trying to feed antennas with very
> high input
> >impedances. If you have a sturdy tower and can find
> the line
> >used for a good price, it does offer than advantage
> of shielding
> >which alleviates the problem associated with
> routing open
> >wire line.
>
> What I did when I installed this antenna was to run
> 15 meters of
> open-wire line to the end of my house nearest the
> antenna, then go
> through the wall up near the peak of the roof with a
> pair of big
> Steatite feedthroughs, into the attic. There I put
> a 4:1 balun,
> followed by an L-C impedance-matching network,
> followed by a 50-ohm
> coaxial common-mode choke; and then 21 meters of
> 5/8ths-inch Heliax
> (LDF5-50) to my shack at the other end of the house.
>
> Thanks to the 4:1 balun and L-C network, the SWR on
> the long Heliax
> line is fairly low on all bands 80 through 10
> meters.
>
>
>
> >The other approach is try to find a quasi broadband
> >antenna that offers a better than ~6:1 VSWR (ref 50
> ohms)
> >over the frequencies of interest. This also makes
> the tradeoff
> >a little better.
>
> That's a good approach, but my antenna had to be
> stealthy, so I stuck
> with a single center-fed wire between two trees.
>
> I designed and simulated with NEC-4 a bifilar
> log-spiral that could
> be suspended from the same three points (two trees
> and the house),
> presented a VSWR of 3:1 or less at all frequencies
> from 3.5 through
> 30 MHz, had a nearly omni-directional pattern in
> azimuth and the
> elevation pattern of a horizontal doublet at the
> same height.
> Unfortunately, it looked like a giant spider web, so
> I never erected
> it. If someone out there has three high support
> points approximately
> at the vertices of an equilateral triangle, would
> like to try the
> idea, and isn't afraid of giant spiders, let me
> know.
>
> -Chuck, W1HIS
> ------------------------------
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> End of TowerTalk Digest, Vol 8, Issue 18
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