[TowerTalk] RE: Nuts & Bolts

Wed Feb 5 18:38:15 EST 2003

I agrre with everything Mark K3FY said about bolted connections with one
exception:
The type of stainless bolt depends on the tower size/manuafacturer.
The more recent Heights designs use a higher strength stainless bolt
identified with a head marking as F593C. These are hardened bolts that have
a minimum tensile/shear strength. These are usually available at better
hardware stores and hardware supply houses. The more common 18-8 has a lower
strength rating (or at least not a guaranteed value) which may not be
suitable for your tower. Steel bolts also have a similar characteristics. I
would definitely recommend stanless steel over galvanized bolts.
In the Heights design, the joint strength is controlled by the bolt
strength, although (as in any optimum design) the other joint factors
(bearing and tensile strength of the aluminum) are not far behind. Mark is
correct that a stronger bolt joint results when both shear planes bear on
the bolt shank & none on the threaded part.

Good Luck es 73s

Bob W5LT

-----Original Message-----
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[mailto:towertalk-bounces at contesting.com]On Behalf Of
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Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 7:22 AM
To: towertalk at contesting.com
Subject: TowerTalk Digest, Vol 2, Issue 9

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Today's Topics:

   1. coax cables summary (David Robbins K1TTT)
   2. Re: Tashjian Towers... (Paul Playford)
   3. RE: [CQ-Contest] RE: [TowerTalk] coax cables (Steve Katz)
   4. Nuts & Bolts (Jerry Keller)
   5. Re: Omni  Directional Hor. Pol. VHF Antennas (Jeff Stai WK6I)
   6. Nuts & Bolts
   7. Re: Remote Antenna Switches (Mark)
   8. Mosley TA-33 (jdraughn)
   9. TA-33 manual  (Jim Miller)
  10. Fw: [CQ-Contest] RE: [TowerTalk] coax cables (on4kj)
  11. Re: TA-33 manual (Gary Dixon K4MQG)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 22:18:34 -0000
From: "David Robbins K1TTT" <k1ttt at arrl.net>
To: "YCCC" <yccc at yccc.org>, "reflector cq-contest"
	<CQ-Contest at contesting.com>,
	"reflector -tower" <towertalk at contesting.com>, <antennas at qth.net>
Subject: [TowerTalk] coax cables summary
Message-ID: <000501c2cc9b$610b8fa0$0200a8c0 at k1ttt1>
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Thanks to everyone for their inputs on sources for custom made cables,
I'm sure they will be some help for me.  I also hope that others can
make use of the various suggestions for installing pl-259's and  other
types of connectors.

The sources that I got were(most frequently recommended ones first):

Cable Experts http://www.cablexperts.com
Davis RF http://www.davisrf.com
The RF Connection www.therfc.com
Radio Warehouse www.radio-warehouse.com
The Wireman http://www.thewireman.com/
ComTek http://www.comteksystems.com
Universal Radio http://www.universal-radio.com/
Pasternack Enterprises www.pasternack.com

I also had two individuals volunteer.

Now I have to figure out all the lengths and decide out who I want to do
it.

David Robbins K1TTT
e-mail: mailto:k1ttt at arrl.net
web: http://www.k1ttt.net
AR-Cluster node: 145.69MHz or telnet://dxc.k1ttt.net

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 18:36:37 -0000
From: "Paul Playford" <w8aef at worldnet.att.net>
To: "Robert" <rgshauger at earthlink.net>, <towertalk at contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Tashjian Towers...
Message-ID: <00aa01c2cc81$ae2ac040$8aaafea9 at desktop>
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I have an LM-470 and am very happy with it.

de Paul, W8AEF

----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert" <rgshauger at earthlink.net>
To: <towertalk at contesting.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 5:26 AM
Subject: [TowerTalk] Tashjian Towers...

> Hello all...
>
> I have been looking to buy a crank-up tower and I noticed an ad in QST
> for Tashjian Towers.
> I am curious, is there anyone here that bought a tower from them?  Are
> there any operational or quality issues?  Any opinions positive or
> negative will be welcomed.
>
> Thanks, Robert   ai7m at arrl.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TowerTalk mailing list
> TowerTalk at contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
------------------------------

Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 14:59:23 -0800
From: Steve Katz <stevek at jmr.com>
To: "'Paul Womble'" <pwomble1 at tampabay.rr.com>,
   "'towertalk at contesting.com'"
	 <towertalk at contesting.com>
Subject: RE: [CQ-Contest] RE: [TowerTalk] coax cables
Message-ID: <DC6063575EF1D4118C300050040D2E93634BB9 at mail.jmr.com>
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Hi Paul,

It doesn't have much to do with "wattage."  It has to do with thermal mass.

A large soldering IRON, the type with a 1/2" wide or larger chisel tip made
of copperclad iron and attached to a huge heating element barrel that weighs
a couple of pounds, has a large thermal mass.  So large that when it
transfers its heat to the barrel of a PL-259, the soldering iron tip
temperature doesn't even change, because its thermal mass is huge compared
with the small thermal mass of the connector.

A soldering GUN, on the other hand, regardless of its "wattage" rating, has
a tiny soldering tip, about an ounce of pure copper, and that's all it's
got.  Copper is very thermally conductive, so it heats very rapidly.  Which
means it also cools off very rapidly.  Which means that when its tip is
applied to the connector body, the connector, having much larger thermal
mass than the soldering gun's tip, sucks all the heat out of the tip and the
tip temperature immediately drops below soldering temperature, so you have
to keep the trigger pulled while it heats up again.

All this time, you're pouring heat into the connector body as it slowly gets
hotter, and hotter, and hotter, for quite a while.  While that's occurring,
the cable dielectric is melting.

Ugh.

A good IRON, on the other hand, transfers enormous heat very quickly without
cooling down and thus the connector body can be soldered within a couple of
seconds.  And then the iron can be removed so the connector can begin
cooling off before the cable dielectric melts.

And that's about it.

WB2WIK/6

"Success is the ability to go from failure to failure with no loss of
enthusiasm." -Winston Churchill

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Paul Womble [SMTP:pwomble1 at tampabay.rr.com]
> Sent:	Tuesday, February 04, 2003 2:59 PM
> To:	Steve Katz
> Subject:	Re: [CQ-Contest] RE: [TowerTalk] coax cables
>
> Hi Steve,
>
> Very interesting discussion.
>
> Is the problem with a gun it's wattage?  Or is there some difference
> between
> a gun and iron of the same wattage?
>
> 73
> Paul K4FB
>
> Steve Katz wrote:
>
> >         Hi Chuck,
> >
> >         I don't know who Paul is (my name is Steve) but I think this was
> > directed towards me.
> >
> >         I agree with you.  Any time I see someone using a soldering
> "gun"
> > for a PL-259 installation, I cringe.
> >
> >         73,
> >
> >         Steve, WB2WIK/6
> >
> >
------------------------------

Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 20:40:13 -0500
From: Jerry Keller <k3bz at arrl.net>
To: "(Reflector) TowerTalk" <towertalk at contesting.com>
Subject: [TowerTalk] Nuts & Bolts
Message-ID: <MBBBLNHCKKMDFPGAGAJAMEMMCOAA.k3bz at arrl.net>
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Message: 4

Which is better for the hardware to hold together the legs of my aluminum
tower sections?
Galvanized or Stainless steel?
Finer thread (3/8-24) or courser thread (3/8-16)?
Flat washers plus lock washers and standard nuts? or flat washers and
locknuts?
If Locknuts, should I use the nylon insert type or the type with the indent?

Advice appreciated....  Jerry K3BZ

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 18:02:50 -0800
From: Jeff Stai WK6I <wk6i at twistedoak.com>
To: "Byron Tatum" <bjtatum at ev1.net>, <TowerTalk at contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Omni  Directional Hor. Pol. VHF Antennas
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030204175849.04be6008 at pop3.twistedoak.com>
In-Reply-To: <004301c2cc6d$6746f400$75d5dacf at tatum001>
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Message: 5

At 08:49 AM 2/4/2003, Byron Tatum wrote:
>Hello-
>    I have not paid close attention to the types of VHF omni-directional
>horizontally polarized antennas on the market now. I would like to place
one
>of each { 144, 222, 432 } on a smaller separate mast for beacon monitoring,
>can anyone suggest a good model and source for it. I remember the old
>Cushcraft " Big Wheel " and did not realize it has been out of production.
I
>was thinking along the lines of this type antenna.
> Thank you, Byron WA5THJ.

hi Byron - I'll swear by the KB6KQ loops:

http://www.kb6kq.com/products.html

Norm also sells the phasing harness if you want to stack the loops. A neat
trick is to nest the stacks, with the higher bands nested inside the lower
ones, all on one mast:

http://www.kb6kq.com/7-LAND.html#NL7CO-2

Norm is also very easy to deal with.

hope this helps! - 73 - jeff wk6i

Jeff Stai               jds at twistedoak.com
Twisted Oak Winery      http://www.twistedoak.com/
Rocketry Org. of CA     http://www.rocstock.org/
Amateur Radio           WK6I

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 22:04:18 -0500
From: <k3fy at arrl.net>
To: <TowerTalk at contesting.com>
Subject: [TowerTalk] Nuts & Bolts
Message-ID: <001101c2ccc3$46465a60$6501a8c0 at dadsgateway>
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Message: 6

Which is better for the hardware to hold together the legs of my =
aluminum
tower sections?
Galvanized or Stainless steel? =20

    I prefer Stainless Steel but you must use Anti-Seize Paste on the =
threads as stainless will gall at times without it.  Keep in mind the =
bolts will be in a shear type application and that the aluminum will be =
the weak link here.  A standard 18-8 stainless fastener will have more =
than enough strength.

Finer thread (3/8-24) or courser thread (3/8-16)?  =20
    For this application it makes no difference.  Fine threads are =
generally not available in galvanized as the threads would be easily =
clogged during the galvanizing process.  Stainless is available in the =
finer thread but not as commonly available and hence they can be pricey.

    But, what would improve your bolted joint is to buy the bolts so =
that the shank (unthreaded portion) will protrude completely through the =
joint in question.  (just a minimum amount) This helps in several ways.
1. No threads will be in the joint to dig into the metal if any movement =
occurs.  (especially important on aluminum joints)
2. Improves the shear strength of the bolted joint. =20

    You will need to use two to four flat washers plus a lockwasher to =
allow the nut to tighten without running out of threads.  Keep in mind =
that all nuts have an internal chamfer which will allow a little extra =
tightening before it bottoms out.

 Flat washers plus lock washers and standard nuts? or flat washers and
locknuts?=20
    I use a flat washer, lockwasher and nut.  A lock nut is not really =
needed in this application but if you want to use one you will need the =
nylon insert style to work well with the stainless bolts. =20

    A point of information on galvanized fasteners:  Most galvanized =
fasteners are still hot dip galvanized.  Galvanized nuts are tapped =
oversize before galvanizing to allow for the increase in the pitch =
diameter of the threads due to the zinc coating.  No such adjustments =
are made to the bolts.   Therefore a proper fit is only assured when =
both the bolt and the nut are hot dip galvanized.   Lock nuts are =
generally not used with galvanized fasteners.  The galvanized coating =
has a higher rotational friction.  This along with a lockwasher is =
usually more than enough.  Special styles of lock nuts are available for =
use with galvanized fasteners when needed.=20

Mark Holzbach K3FY

Mark=20

   =20

I use=20
If Locknuts, should I use the nylon insert type or the type with the =
indent?

Advice appreciated....  Jerry K3BZ

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 19:37:02 -0800
From: Mark <aa6dx at pacbell.net>
To: Steve Katz <stevek at jmr.com>, "'KG4QDZ'" <kg4qdz at arrl.net>,
   towertalk at contesting.com
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Remote Antenna Switches
Message-ID: <00a801c2ccc7$d8dee640$7262ce3f at Desk>
References: <DC6063575EF1D4118C300050040D2E93634BA7 at mail.jmr.com>
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Message: 7

Hmmm, -- who told you that?  I have a home-brew I bought from an old-timer a
year ago or so, and it works swell! I've swept it's frequency w/ MFJ 259 ..
and put in/out into dummy ... NO loss detected, no impedance bumps I can
discern on 80 through 10 .. (I am sure there are some, always is, but .. NOT
apparent .. soooooo?)  Has super duper professional relays .. I will have to
dig up the original info if I can find it, and .. it is fed 12 V up the
feedline, which I did not like .. but, guess what .. worky worky, stick 1500
watts there, and it dobedo just fine... NOT made out of junque, simply the
best of home-brew...   73 --- Mark  AA6DX
 Original Message -----
From: "Steve Katz" <stevek at jmr.com>
To: "'KG4QDZ'" <kg4qdz at arrl.net>; <towertalk at contesting.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 11:01 AM
Subject: RE: [TowerTalk] Remote Antenna Switches

> Homebrew switches using relays do not fare well at VHF, and less so at
UHF.
> Relay and wiring reactance takes over pretty quickly.  Even using small
form
> factor relays interconnected by a good circuit board layout such as
> Ameritron does, performance drops off pretty quickly above 144 MHz for the
> "control line" version, and the "biased through the coax" version is
worse.
>
> For VHF-UHF remote antenna switching, I'd go with surplus Transco
motorized
> coaxial switches.  Pretty much what everybody uses at VHF and above, most
of
> the Transcos are good to at least 2 GHz, some higher.
>
> -WB2WIK/6
>
> "Success is the ability to go from failure to failure with no loss of
> enthusiasm." -Winston Churchill
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: KG4QDZ [SMTP:kg4qdz at arrl.net]
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 9:46 AM
> > To: towertalk at contesting.com
> > Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Remote Antenna Switches

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 22:40:30 -0600
From: "jdraughn" <jdraughn1 at cox.net>
To: <towertalk at contesting.com>
Subject: [TowerTalk] Mosley TA-33
Message-ID: <AMEPIGBDPLHMPHJHEIJGCEBIDAAA.jdraughn1 at cox.net>
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Hello all,
Does anyone have a TA-33 manual and Element
spacing Chart? If I remember right it's just
a page or two. If someone could Email a copy
to me I would really appreciate it.
Thanks,
Jeff, N0OST

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 23:07:44 -0600
From: "Jim Miller" <JimMiller at STL-OnLine.Net>
To: "TOWERTALK" <TOWERTALK at contesting.com>
Subject: [TowerTalk] TA-33 manual
Message-ID: <001b01c2ccd4$8527b420$6600010a at jimmillerlaptop>
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Message: 9

Excellant question - me too.  I "inherited a TA-33 and would like the
"manual" aslo.
Thanks es 73, de Jim KG0KP

Hello all,
Does anyone have a TA-33 manual and Element
spacing Chart? If I remember right it's just
a page or two. If someone could Email a copy
to me I would really appreciate it.
Thanks,
Jeff, N0OST

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 09:29:16 -0000
From: "on4kj" <on4kj at skynet.be>
To: <towertalk at contesting.com>, "Steve Katz" <stevek at jmr.com>
Subject: Fw: [CQ-Contest] RE: [TowerTalk] coax cables
Message-ID: <014801c2ccf9$0db0aa80$a3adc850 at hermansjos>
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----- Original Message -----
From: "j.a.hermans" <j.a.hermans at skynet.be>
To: "Steve Katz" <stevek at jmr.com>; <discreetly_confidential at yahoo.com>;
<towertalk at contesting.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 9:18 AM
Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] RE: [TowerTalk] coax cables

>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Katz" <stevek at jmr.com>
> To: <discreetly_confidential at yahoo.com>; <towertalk at contesting.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 9:51 PM
> Subject: RE: [CQ-Contest] RE: [TowerTalk] coax cables
>
>
> >
> > Hi Chuck,
> >
> > I don't know who Paul is (my name is Steve) but I think this was
> > directed towards me.
> >
> > I agree with you.  Any time I see someone using a soldering "gun"
> > for a PL-259 installation, I cringe.
> >
> I agree.
> Assembling and soldering a PL should'nt be done elswhere then in a
workshop,
> with adapted tools. A few hundreds one after an other in the ideal
> conditions is OK.
> It's a very critical operation if you dont want cold solder which break at
> the first occasion, or burned joints which have a transfert resistance of
a
> few  M ohms
> .........Soldering guns !!!!!!!! throw them away, you will be unable to
> control the right temperature.
> Use a N type, sure you will have better results for years.
> By the way, nowadays one can find PL to be mounted as N-type. ( at least
in
> Germany ).
> Have been in charge of ANGRC and other military production  for a couple
of
> years in the late fiftees.......
>
> Jos on4kj
>
>
>
> > 73,
> >
> > Steve, WB2WIK/6
> >
> > > Paul,
> > >
> > > You hit the nail right on the head solidly and
> > > quite soundly.
> > >
> > > The operative word is 900W iron!
> > >
> > > HEAT HEAT HEAT!! Raise the mass of metal to the
> > > operating temp QUICKLY and then do the job. Too
> > > may hams use a 125W gun and wonder why it takes
> > > forever and they burn the coax, melt the
> > > dielectric and short the inner to the outer
> > > conductor!
> > >
> > > I work in MiL Quality world and I inspect this
> > > stuff on a daily basis aside from being NASA
> > > solder certified and nuclear industry solder
> > > certified.
> > >
> > > HEAT HEAT HEAT!!  Nothing beats a GOOD PROPERLY
> > > sized gun/iron!
> > >
> > > Huzzah for the excellent post!
> > >
> > > 73
> > >
> > > Chuck k3FT
> > >
> > > Give me that Old Time Mil-STD-454 requirement 5
> > > anytime!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________________________
> > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
> > > http://mailplus.yahoo.com
> > _______________________________________________
> > TowerTalk mailing list
> > TowerTalk at contesting.com
> > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
> >
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 08:08:24 -0500
From: Gary Dixon K4MQG <gdixon at fmtc.net>
To: Jim Miller <JimMiller at stl-online.net>,
   TOWERTALK <TOWERTALK at contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] TA-33 manual
Message-ID: <004701c2cd17$ada663e0$d7d2a6a5 at hppav>
References: <001b01c2ccd4$8527b420$6600010a at jimmillerlaptop>
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Message: 11

I have a TA-33 Manual that I would be glad to copy and send those of you who
need it. Send SASE to my address on QRZ.Com.
73s, Gary, K4MQG

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Miller" <JimMiller at stl-online.net>
To: "TOWERTALK" <TOWERTALK at contesting.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 12:07 AM
Subject: [TowerTalk] TA-33 manual

> Excellant question - me too.  I "inherited a TA-33 and would like the
> "manual" aslo.
> Thanks es 73, de Jim KG0KP
>
>
> Hello all,
> Does anyone have a TA-33 manual and Element
> spacing Chart? If I remember right it's just
> a page or two. If someone could Email a copy
> to me I would really appreciate it.
> Thanks,
> Jeff, N0OST
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TowerTalk mailing list
> TowerTalk at contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk

------------------------------

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End of TowerTalk Digest, Vol 2, Issue 9
***************************************