[Towertalk] Sidemount

Mon, 6 Jan 2003 11:17:16 -0600

The sidemount issue always seem to revert back to some available drawings as
the bible for the mount. These drawing examples are only one of a gazillion
ways to do this. To assume that this is "the" way is a mistake. The
statement that the mount must be mounted on the leg rather than a face to
rotate is 100% incorrect. Every small adjustment of the mounting location of
the rotator from side to side, or in or out from the tower itself effects
the rotation pattern, then add the sliding of the boom to change the
proportion of the element/tower spacing and another set of variables sets
in. I mention these factors out of experience, not drawings. I have had
several sidemounts supporting my C31Xr's on Rohn 25 and now on Rohn 55. Some
have been leg oriented and the current one is side-face mounted--rotating a
C31XR stretch. I designed it to rotate (at75') from EA thru Eu around N to
Ja. It works FB and is everything I need to augment the other C31@35'(Tic)
and the top C31@117'. If I had relied on drawings and speculation and the
generalized advice of hamdom, I would have "assumed" that it would not work
on Rohn 25, not to mention the 18" face of the Rohn 55. These mounts have
been in the air in one form or another for four years and not a problem.
What I actually have working directly disputes 90% of the advice I read on
this subject. So my advice is to experiment, do some mockups, and actually
build some proto type mounts on a ground mounted tower section. I can assure
the group that there are many ways to do this and make work what others say
will not.  Tommy WD4K

-----Original Message-----
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Sent: Sunday, January 05, 2003 9:39 PM
To: towertalk@contesting.com
Subject: Towertalk digest, Vol 1 #822 - 14 msgs

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Side-Mount on Trylon T400-80? (K7LXC@aol.com)
   2. Re: Varmints - Thank You (Kris Mraz)
   3. Big Grip or Guy-Grip? (Roger)
   4. Re: Side-Mount on Trylon T400-80? (EUGENE  SMAR)
   5. (no subject) (Al Williams)
   6. Cal AV  2 ele 40M yagi (Larry Emery)
   7. Re: Big Grip or Guy-Grip? (Mike Gilmer, N2MG)
   8. RE: Varmints (Bob Wanderer)
   9. Re: Varmints (Lee Noonan)
  10. Re: Big Grip or Guy-Grip? (Stan & Patricia Griffiths)
  11. Re: Big Grip or Guy-Grip? (K7LXC@aol.com)
  12. 4 square or 2El rotateable beam for 75???????? (videorov)
  13. testing (Bill & Tammie)
  14. Re: HDR-300 rotator "stuck" (JBaumgarte@aol.com)

--__--__--

Message: 1
From: K7LXC@aol.com
Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 12:16:22 EST
Subject: Re: [Towertalk] Side-Mount on Trylon T400-80?
To: spelunk.sueno@prodigy.net, rich@n7tr.com, towertalk@contesting.com

In a message dated 1/4/03 10:23:18 PM Pacific Standard Time,
spelunk.sueno@prodigy.net writes:

>      Trylon's commercial web page lists such side-mounts:
>
http://www.trylon.com/lightdutytowers/selfsupporttwrs_accessories.asp#side
.

    Well, yes and no. This illustrates a sidemount that is mounted on the
face of the tower. It's okay for a fixed sidemounted yagi but I think Rich's
question had to do with being able to rotate them.

    In order to rotate them, the sidemount needs to be installed so the
sidemount/antenna is on the leg - not the face. Here's a drawing that
illustrates the basic parameters - <A
HREF="http://www.reprise.com/antronics/sidemount_clearance.asp">
http://www.reprise.com/antronics/sidemount_clearance.asp</A>. Without
knowing
how much clearance is required (since Rich didn't say at what altitude and
thus how much tower face you need to deal with) for where he was going to
install an antenna or how much between-element clearance he'll need to do
any
rotating, it's not easy to come up with a conclusive answer. I've heard of a
'stretch' design for the C31XR that adds some needed clearance between
elements but this dimension becomes the crux parameter for any sidemounted
yagi.

    It's easy to fabricate a sidemount and swinging-gate for any tower
including the Trylon Titan - you just need some angle steel or aluminum,
some
pipe, and some U-bolts.

    A good way to see what you need is to draw the proposed installation on
some graph paper.

Cheers,
Steve     K7LXC
TOWER TECH -
Professional tower services for commercial and amateur

--__--__--

Message: 2
Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 17:45:40 +0000
From: Kris Mraz <kilo.mike@gte.net>
Reply-To: kilo.mike@gte.net
To: Tower Talk Reflector <towertalk@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [Towertalk] Varmints - Thank You

Thanks to all who resonded to my inquiry about varmints chewing
on my control cable. I got plenty of good (and humorous) suggestions.

73,

Kris N5KM

--__--__--

Message: 3
Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 18:40:00 +0000
To: towerTalk <towertalk@contesting.com>
From: Roger <rmurad@superig.com.br>
Subject: [Towertalk] Big Grip or Guy-Grip?

I contacted PLP branch here in Brazil. The sales representative told me
that "Big Grips" are only available for EHS cable diameters equal or
greater than 1/2". They simply do not produce smaller Big Grips. This can
be confirmed at http://www.preformed.com/comm/pdfs/17_2.pdf

For smaller diameters he said that their product is the "Guy Grip". So, as
my guying cable is 3/16" EHS, 6 X 7, the recommended product is "Guy Grip"
GDE-1102... But this one must not be used for guying towers... (from PLP
web site: "Big-Grip Dead-end is recommended for guying metal towers and
antennas")
http://www.preformed.com/comm/pdfs/17_1.pdf

The tower to be guyed is a 20 meters high tower, with a XM-240 and a A4WS
on top. If I follow the manufacturer guidelines, I'll have to throw away my
brand new 590 feet spool of 3/16" EHS and buy 1/2" EHS (and corresponding
Big Grips)!! Of course, I won't do this, no way. This does not make any
sense. I can't believe that PLP thinks that ALL towers in the world will
use at least 1/2" cable... of course they know about radio amateur stations
and that most use 3/16". There must be an explanation.

To make things even more confuse, Rohn catalog shows Big Grips BG2142 for
3/16" wire rope:
http://www.rohnnet.com/rohnnet2001/catalog/pdfs/Hardware/HA-8.pdf
Perhaps this Big Grip is from another manufacturer, not PLP.

Trying to get correct info on grips is not that easy.

73 Roger - PY1OL

--__--__--

Message: 4
From: "EUGENE  SMAR" <spelunk.sueno@prodigy.net>
To: <K7LXC@aol.com>, <rich@n7tr.com>, <towertalk@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [Towertalk] Side-Mount on Trylon T400-80?
Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 14:25:13 -0500

TT:

     Steve's correct (as usual.)  The Trylon side mount shown will not allow
rotation of a center-mount HF Yagi.

     Let me offer an alternative:
http://www.trylon.com/pdfs/Working%20platform.pdf .  This is the work
platform for the Titan series of towers.  Perhaps one could purchase (or
fabricate) two support angles for two consecutive tower sections and install
a top bearing plate and rotator plate on homemade platforms.

     The issue with the Titan tower series is the taper - about three inches
of reduced face width in each section.  The homemade platform would have the
center of the upper bearing offset from the tower face a few inches more
than the lower rotator plate.  Also, this design (offset from a tower face)
will have a restriction on the azimuth angles through which the Yagi can be
rotated, compared with a design that has the axis of rotation off a tower
leg as shown in Steve's referenced web page.

     With the work platform configuration a swinging gate type of rotating
assembly could be installed on the Trylons.  But always keep the element
spacing in mind when you're designing the mount.  And read the 2002 QST
article (issue?) about side-mounting large Yagis.  And remember (last one, I
promise) - the Trylon Titan series is a light- to medium-duty design.  I
wouldn't put too big a Yagi on it.

73 de
Gene Smar  AD3F

-----Original Message-----
From: K7LXC@aol.com <K7LXC@aol.com>
To: spelunk.sueno@prodigy.net <spelunk.sueno@prodigy.net>; rich@n7tr.com
<rich@n7tr.com>; towertalk@contesting.com <towertalk@contesting.com>
Date: Sunday, January 05, 2003 12:16 PM
Subject: Re: [Towertalk] Side-Mount on Trylon T400-80?

>In a message dated 1/4/03 10:23:18 PM Pacific Standard Time,
>spelunk.sueno@prodigy.net writes:
>
>>      Trylon's commercial web page lists such side-mounts:
>>
http://www.trylon.com/lightdutytowers/selfsupporttwrs_accessories.asp#side
>.
>
>    Well, yes and no. This illustrates a sidemount that is mounted on the
>face of the tower. It's okay for a fixed sidemounted yagi but I think
Rich's
>question had to do with being able to rotate them.
>
>    In order to rotate them, the sidemount needs to be installed so the
>sidemount/antenna is on the leg - not the face. Here's a drawing that
>illustrates the basic parameters - <A
>HREF="http://www.reprise.com/antronics/sidemount_clearance.asp">
>http://www.reprise.com/antronics/sidemount_clearance.asp</A>. Without
knowing
>how much clearance is required (since Rich didn't say at what altitude and
>thus how much tower face you need to deal with) for where he was going to
>install an antenna or how much between-element clearance he'll need to do
any
>rotating, it's not easy to come up with a conclusive answer. I've heard of
a
>'stretch' design for the C31XR that adds some needed clearance between
>elements but this dimension becomes the crux parameter for any sidemounted
>yagi.
>
>    It's easy to fabricate a sidemount and swinging-gate for any tower
>including the Trylon Titan - you just need some angle steel or aluminum,
some
>pipe, and some U-bolts.
>
>    A good way to see what you need is to draw the proposed installation on
>some graph paper.
>
>Cheers,
>Steve     K7LXC
>TOWER TECH -
>Professional tower services for commercial and amateur

--__--__--

Message: 5
From: "Al Williams" <alwilliams@olywa.net>
To: <Towertalk@contesting.com>
Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 11:42:10 -0800
Subject: [Towertalk] (no subject)

unscribe

--__--__--

Message: 6
From: "Larry Emery" <k1uo@prexar.com>
To: <Towertalk@contesting.com>
Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 15:26:35 -0500
Subject: [Towertalk] Cal AV  2 ele 40M yagi

Anyone out there with experience with this 2 ele 40M yagi??  Thoughts,
performance?

Thanks,
Larry  K1UO

--__--__--

Message: 7
From: "Mike Gilmer, N2MG" <n2mg@eham.net>
To: "towertalk" <towertalk@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [Towertalk] Big Grip or Guy-Grip?
Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 15:52:27 -0500

It seems that PLP is inconsistent. I recently purchased both the 3/16"
(BG-2142) and 1/4" (BG-2144) grips from PLP.  Their invoice referred to them
as "Big Grips"  - but I can see the PDFs you referenced do not include those
sizes.  Here's one that does
http://www.preformed.com/cgi-bin/serveFile.pl/SP2049-3.pdf?type=file&id=220&
fieldname=file

I suggest you contact the PLP factory in the US at inquiries@preformed.com

Regards,
Mike N2MG

PY1OL wrote:
> I contacted PLP branch here in Brazil. The sales representative told me
> that "Big Grips" are only available for EHS cable diameters equal or
> greater than 1/2". They simply do not produce smaller Big Grips. This can
> be confirmed at http://www.preformed.com/comm/pdfs/17_2.pdf
>
> For smaller diameters he said that their product is the "Guy Grip". So, as
> my guying cable is 3/16" EHS, 6 X 7, the recommended product is "Guy Grip"
> GDE-1102... But this one must not be used for guying towers... (from PLP
> web site: "Big-Grip Dead-end is recommended for guying metal towers and
> antennas")
> http://www.preformed.com/comm/pdfs/17_1.pdf
>
> The tower to be guyed is a 20 meters high tower, with a XM-240 and a A4WS
> on top. If I follow the manufacturer guidelines, I'll have to throw away
my
> brand new 590 feet spool of 3/16" EHS and buy 1/2" EHS (and corresponding
> Big Grips)!! Of course, I won't do this, no way. This does not make any
> sense. I can't believe that PLP thinks that ALL towers in the world will
> use at least 1/2" cable... of course they know about radio amateur
stations
> and that most use 3/16". There must be an explanation.
>
> To make things even more confuse, Rohn catalog shows Big Grips BG2142 for
> 3/16" wire rope:
> http://www.rohnnet.com/rohnnet2001/catalog/pdfs/Hardware/HA-8.pdf
> Perhaps this Big Grip is from another manufacturer, not PLP.
>
> Trying to get correct info on grips is not that easy.
>
> 73 Roger - PY1OL
>
>
>
>
>

--__--__--

Message: 8
From: "Bob Wanderer" <aa0cy@VRINTER.NET>
To: "TOWERTALK" <TOWERTALK@CONTESTING.COM>
Subject: RE: [Towertalk] Varmints
Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 18:00:18 -0500

Some animals just LOVE the taste of Bitter Apple!  I had one
dog who thought it was a great condiment complimenting the
taste of the coffee table, dry wall, cinder block, and etc.
she loved to chew on.  OTOH, after she ate the dry wall in
the living room we discovered that the contractor had not
installed the level of insulation that had been paid for!
Wonder how the dog knew that.

73
Bob AA0CY
(25 yrs breeding, training, and showing Norwegian
Elkhounds--however, this particular dog was an Irish
Wolfhound-Giant Schnauzer mix)

-----Original Message-----
From: towertalk-admin@contesting.com
[mailto:towertalk-admin@contesting.com]On Behalf Of Randy
Wing
Sent: Saturday, January 04, 2003 7:13 PM
To: kilo.mike@gte.net; Tower Talk Reflector
Subject: Re: [Towertalk] Varmints

Bitter Apple is a repellent that we have used to keep
animals from using
cable as a chew toy.

It is available at most pet stores.

Randy
N0LD

----- Original Message -----
From: "Kris Mraz" <kilo.mike@gte.net>
To: "Tower Talk Reflector" <towertalk@contesting.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 04, 2003 5:53 PM
Subject: [Towertalk] Varmints

> I have a long control cable just lying on the ground
> running out to a 4-square. Recently I found it chewed in
half.
> There were animal chew marks all along it.
>
> Can anyone recommend a way to prevent this from happening
> other than burying the cable?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Kris N5KM
>
> _______________________________________________
> AN Wireless Self Supporting Towers at discounted prices,
> See http://www.mscomputer.com
>
> Wireless Weather Stations now $349.95. Call Toll Free,
> 888-333-9041 for additional information.
> _______________________________________________
> Towertalk mailing list
> Towertalk@contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk

_______________________________________________
AN Wireless Self Supporting Towers at discounted prices,
See http://www.mscomputer.com

Wireless Weather Stations now $349.95. Call Toll Free,
888-333-9041 for additional information.
_______________________________________________
Towertalk mailing list
Towertalk@contesting.com
http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk

--__--__--

Message: 9
From: "Lee Noonan" <vk2lee@maxnet.net.au>
To: "Bob Wanderer" <aa0cy@VRINTER.NET>, "TOWERTALK"
<TOWERTALK@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [Towertalk] Varmints
Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 11:22:04 +1100

So what You are saying Bob, is that Your Extra Large Dog, was probably the
largest Varmint ever.....  Hi Hi
73
Lee  VK2LEE

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Wanderer" <aa0cy@VRINTER.NET>
To: "TOWERTALK" <TOWERTALK@contesting.com>
Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 10:00 AM
Subject: RE: [Towertalk] Varmints

> Some animals just LOVE the taste of Bitter Apple!  I had one
> dog who thought it was a great condiment complimenting the
> taste of the coffee table, dry wall, cinder block, and etc.
> she loved to chew on.  OTOH, after she ate the dry wall in
> the living room we discovered that the contractor had not
> installed the level of insulation that had been paid for!
> Wonder how the dog knew that.
>
> 73
> Bob AA0CY
> (25 yrs breeding, training, and showing Norwegian
> Elkhounds--however, this particular dog was an Irish
> Wolfhound-Giant Schnauzer mix)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: towertalk-admin@contesting.com
> [mailto:towertalk-admin@contesting.com]On Behalf Of Randy
> Wing
> Sent: Saturday, January 04, 2003 7:13 PM
> To: kilo.mike@gte.net; Tower Talk Reflector
> Subject: Re: [Towertalk] Varmints
>
>
> Bitter Apple is a repellent that we have used to keep
> animals from using
> cable as a chew toy.
>
> It is available at most pet stores.
>
> Randy
> N0LD
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kris Mraz" <kilo.mike@gte.net>
> To: "Tower Talk Reflector" <towertalk@contesting.com>
> Sent: Saturday, January 04, 2003 5:53 PM
> Subject: [Towertalk] Varmints
>
>
> > I have a long control cable just lying on the ground
> > running out to a 4-square. Recently I found it chewed in
> half.
> > There were animal chew marks all along it.
> >
> > Can anyone recommend a way to prevent this from happening
> > other than burying the cable? OR- BRINGING IN THE VARMINT KILLERS !!!!
in a theater near You!!
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Kris N5KM
> >
/mailman/listinfo/towertalk

--__--__--

Message: 10
From: "Stan & Patricia Griffiths" <w7ni@easystreet.com>
To: "Roger" <rmurad@superig.com.br>
Cc: "Towertalk" <towertalk@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [Towertalk] Big Grip or Guy-Grip?
Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 17:51:28 -0800

Hi Roger,

I can tell you from personal experience that you can get Big Grips from PLP
for 3/16" and 1/4" EHS.  Maybe they are not available in Brazil and it
sounds like you PLP rep does not have all the information.

The 3/16" Big Grip is called a BG-2142 and the 1/4" Big Grip is called a
BG-2144.

Stan
w7ni@easystreet.com

PS  I would not hesitate to use Utility Grips GDE-1102 for 3/16" EHS to guy
a tower . . . but that is just my opinion . . .
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger" <rmurad@superig.com.br>
To: "towerTalk" <towertalk@contesting.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 05, 2003 10:40 AM
Subject: [Towertalk] Big Grip or Guy-Grip?

> I contacted PLP branch here in Brazil. The sales representative told me
> that "Big Grips" are only available for EHS cable diameters equal or
> greater than 1/2". They simply do not produce smaller Big Grips. This can
> be confirmed at http://www.preformed.com/comm/pdfs/17_2.pdf
>
> For smaller diameters he said that their product is the "Guy Grip". So, as
> my guying cable is 3/16" EHS, 6 X 7, the recommended product is "Guy Grip"
> GDE-1102... But this one must not be used for guying towers... (from PLP
> web site: "Big-Grip Dead-end is recommended for guying metal towers and
> antennas")
> http://www.preformed.com/comm/pdfs/17_1.pdf
>
> The tower to be guyed is a 20 meters high tower, with a XM-240 and a A4WS
> on top. If I follow the manufacturer guidelines, I'll have to throw away
my
> brand new 590 feet spool of 3/16" EHS and buy 1/2" EHS (and corresponding
> Big Grips)!! Of course, I won't do this, no way. This does not make any
> sense. I can't believe that PLP thinks that ALL towers in the world will
> use at least 1/2" cable... of course they know about radio amateur
stations
> and that most use 3/16". There must be an explanation.
>
> To make things even more confuse, Rohn catalog shows Big Grips BG2142 for
> 3/16" wire rope:
> http://www.rohnnet.com/rohnnet2001/catalog/pdfs/Hardware/HA-8.pdf
> Perhaps this Big Grip is from another manufacturer, not PLP.
>
> Trying to get correct info on grips is not that easy.
>
> 73 Roger - PY1OL
>
> _______________________________________________
> AN Wireless Self Supporting Towers at discounted prices,
> See http://www.mscomputer.com
>
> Wireless Weather Stations now $349.95. Call Toll Free,
> 888-333-9041 for additional information.
> _______________________________________________
> Towertalk mailing list
> Towertalk@contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>

--__--__--

Message: 11
From: K7LXC@aol.com
Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 21:05:19 EST
Subject: Re: [Towertalk] Big Grip or Guy-Grip?
To: w7ni@easystreet.com, rmurad@superig.com.br
CC: towertalk@contesting.com

In a message dated 1/5/03 5:55:45 PM Pacific Standard Time,
w7ni@easystreet.com writes:

> PS  I would not hesitate to use Utility Grips GDE-1102 for 3/16" EHS to
guy
>  a tower . . . but that is just my opinion . . .

    Actually bad advice. Each Preformed grip is designed specifically for
ONE
cable and APPLICATION and they should not be used with the wrong cable. The
number of strands varies (i.e. EHS is 5 strands; 7x19 wire rope has 7
bundles
of 19 strands, etc.) and the lay can be different.

    Grips for EHS which is used almost exclusively for tower guying are
longer than the equivalent-sized grip used for utility applications. Also,
the forces for each application are significantly different; i.e. utility
poles tend to use fatter, shorter guys than for towers.

    As always, follow the LXC Prime Directive to "DO what the manufacturer
says" (you don't think that PLP would tell you to mix-and-match the grips,
do
you?) and you'll be fine.

Cheers,
Steve     K7LXC
TOWER TECH -
Professional tower services for commercial and amateur

--__--__--

Message: 12
Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 21:15:28 -0500
From: videorov <videorov@direcway.com>
To: "towertalk@contesting.com" <towertalk@contesting.com>
Subject: [Towertalk] 4 square or 2El rotateable beam for 75????????

--__--__--

Message: 13
From: "Bill & Tammie" <bltlawrence12@worldnet.att.net>
To: <towertalk@contesting.com>
Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 21:08:52 -0600
Subject: [Towertalk] testing

--__--__--

Message: 14
From: JBaumgarte@aol.com
Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 14:02:34 EST
Subject: Re: [Towertalk] HDR-300 rotator "stuck"
To: dcm@stanford.edu

Craig,

Any chance the antenna might have swung past the limit switch while the
rotor
was unlocked?  I had this happen to me once --it would turn a little but
then
the "wrong" limit switch came into play and I had a very limited range near
the end.  Had to go up and manually move the antenna through the limit
switch
while the break was released.  It sounds like you have a "stuck" rotor which
might mean no movement at all--but, just in case thought I'd contribute
this.
 I can think of no other "easy" answer.
Most of these things end up being cable related!

By the way, I sent my 300 back to MFJ a couple of years ago for a total
update with hardened shafts and improved keys (both inside and outside).  It
was about $250 but it's a way improved unit now.  I actually haven't used it
since as I purchased the M squared 2800 while it was getting fixed.  It's on
the shelf!

Good luck.

John, N0IJ
Duluth, MN

--__--__--

_______________________________________________
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End of Towertalk Digest