I'm sold on the new 'N' type Force 12 design. It is long - about 85% of full size, but plays well and is _much_ better mechanically than their older designs. You can also make one fairly easily. No boom hardware to deal with, very easy to tune - much easier to home-brew than a yagi. GL es 73, ***dan, K6IF (VC1R in WPX SSB next weekend)