[TowerTalk] Re: TowerTalk Digest, Vol 26, Issue 4
Bill Fuqua
wlfuqu00 at uky.edu
Tue Feb 1 13:36:20 EST 2005
Gee, I have never broken a stainless steel bolt. They have been too hard.
I have broken galvanized steel bolts. Particularly after they have rusted a
bit.
73
Bill wa4lav
At 01:30 PM 2/1/2005 -0500, towertalk-request at contesting.com wrote:
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>Today's Topics:
>
> 1. RE: How to stiffen a mast (Keith Dutson)
> 2. Re: Ham II rotor went south and won't come back. (Bill Coleman)
> 3. Re: HamM-IV Mounting Screws (Bill Coleman)
> 4. Re: How to stiffen a mast (k2qmf at juno.com)
> 5. Re: How to stiffen a mast (Malcolm Ringel)
> 6. Re: Mast stiffness (Wayne Davidson)
> 7. do not use stainless (FireBrick)
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Message: 1
>Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 11:19:23 -0600
>From: "Keith Dutson" <kjdutson at earthlink.net>
>Subject: RE: [TowerTalk] How to stiffen a mast
>To: "'MIKE GREENWAY'" <K4PI at peoplepc.com>, "'Barkey, Patrick M.'"
> <pbarkey at bsu.edu>, <towertalk at contesting.com>
>Message-ID: <E1Cw1g4-00015I-00 at pop-a065c32.pas.sa.earthlink.net>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>I agree that combining wood and metal helps with rigidity. You must make
>certain that the wood is sealed against the elements to prevent weathering.
>Fiberglass and/or epoxy coating makes it even more rigid. The floor pan in
>my Corvette is actually made of fiberglass coated plywood that is bolted to
>the steel frame.
>
>Keith NM5G
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: towertalk-bounces at contesting.com
>[mailto:towertalk-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of MIKE GREENWAY
>Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 7:50 AM
>To: Barkey, Patrick M.; towertalk at contesting.com
>Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] How to stiffen a mast
>
>I thought about this some years ago and had a friend turn some solid oak
>dowels on his lathe that would just go into the mast. I used a hammer to
>tap them into place but I brushed on epoxy just to take up any spacing
>between the two. I capped the mast on both ends. It has been there for
>years. I asked a structual engineer afterward about doing this and he said
>they sometimes combine wood with metal to increase the strength. Whether it
>is worth doing or not I cannot say but it made me feel a lot better.73 Mike
>K4PI
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Barkey, Patrick M." <pbarkey at bsu.edu>
>To: <towertalk at contesting.com>
>Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 8:15 PM
>Subject: [TowerTalk] How to stiffen a mast
>
>
>I've been using 24 foot, half inch wall, 2.5 inch OD aluminum masts
>on all of my towers for quite a few years, with no failures or real
>problems. During the recent ice storm, however, a couple of them
>flexed a little more than I'd like to see (they've since sprung back).
>
>Now that I have the opportunity to think this over, I am wondering
>if it would be of any value to try to add a little more stiffness to
>the existing mast by driving something into the hollow center.
>I've got a 1.5 inch ID hole to work with - perhaps some pipe or
>solid rod could be driven into it?
>
>Wondering if anyone has ever tried anything like this?
>
> - Pat
> N9RV
>..
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>See: http://www.mscomputer.com for "Self Supporting Towers", "Wireless
>Weather Stations", and lot's more. Call Toll Free, 1-800-333-9041 with any
>questions and ask for Sherman, W2FLA.
>
>_______________________________________________
>TowerTalk mailing list
>TowerTalk at contesting.com
>http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>See: http://www.mscomputer.com for "Self Supporting Towers", "Wireless
>Weather Stations", and lot's more. Call Toll Free, 1-800-333-9041 with any
>questions and ask for Sherman, W2FLA.
>
>_______________________________________________
>TowerTalk mailing list
>TowerTalk at contesting.com
>http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 2
>Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 12:18:52 -0500
>From: Bill Coleman <aa4lr at arrl.net>
>Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Ham II rotor went south and won't come back.
>To: replytojosh at tuel.com
>Cc: towertalk at contesting.com
>Message-ID: <582F94DA-7475-11D9-925A-000A95CC9FB4 at arrl.net>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>
>
>On Jan 9, 2005, at 4:34 PM, Josh wrote:
>
> > Hello all,
> >
> > My Ham II rotor went south today... literally.
> >
> > I was operating as usual when I release the break to turn the rotor, it
> > turned itself south. Now it won't move out of that position.
>
>Maybe the cable line for that direction of rotation shorted to the
>brake line, and energising the brake causes it to rotate all the way to
>the limit switch.
>
>Could be a problem at the back of the control box, the terminals on the
>rotator, or perhaps the cable itself.
>
>Bill Coleman, AA4LR, PP-ASEL Mail: aa4lr at arrl.net
>Quote: "Not within a thousand years will man ever fly!"
> -- Wilbur Wright, 1901
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 3
>Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 12:25:32 -0500
>From: Bill Coleman <aa4lr at arrl.net>
>Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] HamM-IV Mounting Screws
>To: Skip Prinsen W1NNI <w1nni at cox.net>
>Cc: towertalk at contesting.com
>Message-ID: <46EBF87C-7476-11D9-925A-000A95CC9FB4 at arrl.net>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>
>
>On Jan 19, 2005, at 12:02 AM, Skip Prinsen W1NNI wrote:
>
> > Where can I get replacement screws for mounting my ham M-IV rotor to a
> > rotor plate?
>
>I went to the local Home Depot. I found stainless screws for my Ham-M
>rotator without a problem. These were not hex head, but slotted. I
>think they were 1/4", but I don't remember.
>
>It shouldn't be a problem to find mounting screws for a rotator at any
>hardware store. I'd get stainless. I also used a stainless split and
>flat washer. I used a flat washer on each side of the rotator plate --
>which helps to keep a small space between the rotator and the plate.
>
>My rotator has been up 3.5 years with no slippage in any of the screws.
>(Be sure to check your mounting hardware in your annual tower
>inspection -- thermal cycling can work tight hardware loose)
>
>Bill Coleman, AA4LR, PP-ASEL Mail: aa4lr at arrl.net
>Quote: "Not within a thousand years will man ever fly!"
> -- Wilbur Wright, 1901
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 4
>Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 12:29:08 -0500
>From: k2qmf at juno.com
>Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] How to stiffen a mast
>To: keith at dutson.net
>Cc: K4PI at peoplepc.com, towertalk at contesting.com, pbarkey at bsu.edu
>Message-ID: <20050201.122914.1276.2.K2QMF at juno.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>
>How about filling the center of the mast with Viagra???
>
>73, K2QMF
>
>On Tue, 1 Feb 2005 11:19:23 -0600 "Keith Dutson" <kjdutson at earthlink.net>
>writes:
> > I agree that combining wood and metal helps with rigidity. You must
> > make
> > certain that the wood is sealed against the elements to prevent
> > weathering.
> > Fiberglass and/or epoxy coating makes it even more rigid. The floor
> > pan in
> > my Corvette is actually made of fiberglass coated plywood that is
> > bolted to
> > the steel frame.
> >
> > Keith NM5G
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: towertalk-bounces at contesting.com
> > [mailto:towertalk-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of MIKE
> > GREENWAY
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 7:50 AM
> > To: Barkey, Patrick M.; towertalk at contesting.com
> > Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] How to stiffen a mast
> >
> > I thought about this some years ago and had a friend turn some solid
> > oak
> > dowels on his lathe that would just go into the mast. I used a
> > hammer to
> > tap them into place but I brushed on epoxy just to take up any
> > spacing
> > between the two. I capped the mast on both ends. It has been there
> > for
> > years. I asked a structual engineer afterward about doing this and
> > he said
> > they sometimes combine wood with metal to increase the strength.
> > Whether it
> > is worth doing or not I cannot say but it made me feel a lot
> > better.73 Mike
> > K4PI
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Barkey, Patrick M." <pbarkey at bsu.edu>
> > To: <towertalk at contesting.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 8:15 PM
> > Subject: [TowerTalk] How to stiffen a mast
> >
> >
> > I've been using 24 foot, half inch wall, 2.5 inch OD aluminum masts
> > on all of my towers for quite a few years, with no failures or real
> > problems. During the recent ice storm, however, a couple of them
> > flexed a little more than I'd like to see (they've since sprung
> > back).
> >
> > Now that I have the opportunity to think this over, I am wondering
> > if it would be of any value to try to add a little more stiffness
> > to
> > the existing mast by driving something into the hollow center.
> > I've got a 1.5 inch ID hole to work with - perhaps some pipe or
> > solid rod could be driven into it?
> >
> > Wondering if anyone has ever tried anything like this?
> >
> > - Pat
> > N9RV
> > .
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > See: http://www.mscomputer.com for "Self Supporting Towers",
> > "Wireless
> > Weather Stations", and lot's more. Call Toll Free, 1-800-333-9041
> > with any
> > questions and ask for Sherman, W2FLA.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TowerTalk mailing list
> > TowerTalk at contesting.com
> > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > See: http://www.mscomputer.com for "Self Supporting Towers",
> > "Wireless
> > Weather Stations", and lot's more. Call Toll Free, 1-800-333-9041
> > with any
> > questions and ask for Sherman, W2FLA.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TowerTalk mailing list
> > TowerTalk at contesting.com
> > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > See: http://www.mscomputer.com for "Self Supporting Towers",
> > "Wireless Weather Stations", and lot's more. Call Toll Free,
> > 1-800-333-9041 with any questions and ask for Sherman, W2FLA.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TowerTalk mailing list
> > TowerTalk at contesting.com
> > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
> >
> >
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 5
>Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 12:38:50 -0500
>From: "Malcolm Ringel" <mringel at bluecrab.org>
>Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] How to stiffen a mast
>To: <keith at dutson.net>, <k2qmf at juno.com>
>Cc: K4PI at peoplepc.com, towertalk at contesting.com, pbarkey at bsu.edu
>Message-ID: <008d01c50884$ea7664a0$3e2f4845 at DGG4W921>
>Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
>I'm surprised that it took this long to get there .....
>73 ...sigh ...
>Malcolm Ringel, K3KZ
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <k2qmf at juno.com>
>To: <keith at dutson.net>
>Cc: <K4PI at peoplepc.com>; <towertalk at contesting.com>; <pbarkey at bsu.edu>
>Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 12:29 PM
>Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] How to stiffen a mast
>
>
> >
> > How about filling the center of the mast with Viagra???
> >
> > 73, K2QMF
> >
> > On Tue, 1 Feb 2005 11:19:23 -0600 "Keith Dutson" <kjdutson at earthlink.net>
> > writes:
> >> I agree that combining wood and metal helps with rigidity. You must
> >> make
> >> certain that the wood is sealed against the elements to prevent
> >> weathering.
> >> Fiberglass and/or epoxy coating makes it even more rigid. The floor
> >> pan in
> >> my Corvette is actually made of fiberglass coated plywood that is
> >> bolted to
> >> the steel frame.
> >>
> >> Keith NM5G
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: towertalk-bounces at contesting.com
> >> [mailto:towertalk-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of MIKE
> >> GREENWAY
> >> Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 7:50 AM
> >> To: Barkey, Patrick M.; towertalk at contesting.com
> >> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] How to stiffen a mast
> >>
> >> I thought about this some years ago and had a friend turn some solid
> >> oak
> >> dowels on his lathe that would just go into the mast. I used a
> >> hammer to
> >> tap them into place but I brushed on epoxy just to take up any
> >> spacing
> >> between the two. I capped the mast on both ends. It has been there
> >> for
> >> years. I asked a structual engineer afterward about doing this and
> >> he said
> >> they sometimes combine wood with metal to increase the strength.
> >> Whether it
> >> is worth doing or not I cannot say but it made me feel a lot
> >> better.73 Mike
> >> K4PI
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Barkey, Patrick M." <pbarkey at bsu.edu>
> >> To: <towertalk at contesting.com>
> >> Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 8:15 PM
> >> Subject: [TowerTalk] How to stiffen a mast
> >>
> >>
> >> I've been using 24 foot, half inch wall, 2.5 inch OD aluminum masts
> >> on all of my towers for quite a few years, with no failures or real
> >> problems. During the recent ice storm, however, a couple of them
> >> flexed a little more than I'd like to see (they've since sprung
> >> back).
> >>
> >> Now that I have the opportunity to think this over, I am wondering
> >> if it would be of any value to try to add a little more stiffness
> >> to
> >> the existing mast by driving something into the hollow center.
> >> I've got a 1.5 inch ID hole to work with - perhaps some pipe or
> >> solid rod could be driven into it?
> >>
> >> Wondering if anyone has ever tried anything like this?
> >>
> >> - Pat
> >> N9RV
> >> .
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >>
> >> See: http://www.mscomputer.com for "Self Supporting Towers",
> >> "Wireless
> >> Weather Stations", and lot's more. Call Toll Free, 1-800-333-9041
> >> with any
> >> questions and ask for Sherman, W2FLA.
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> TowerTalk mailing list
> >> TowerTalk at contesting.com
> >> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >>
> >> See: http://www.mscomputer.com for "Self Supporting Towers",
> >> "Wireless
> >> Weather Stations", and lot's more. Call Toll Free, 1-800-333-9041
> >> with any
> >> questions and ask for Sherman, W2FLA.
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> TowerTalk mailing list
> >> TowerTalk at contesting.com
> >> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >>
> >> See: http://www.mscomputer.com for "Self Supporting Towers",
> >> "Wireless Weather Stations", and lot's more. Call Toll Free,
> >> 1-800-333-9041 with any questions and ask for Sherman, W2FLA.
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> TowerTalk mailing list
> >> TowerTalk at contesting.com
> >> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
> >>
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > See: http://www.mscomputer.com for "Self Supporting Towers", "Wireless
> > Weather Stations", and lot's more. Call Toll Free, 1-800-333-9041 with
> > any questions and ask for Sherman, W2FLA.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TowerTalk mailing list
> > TowerTalk at contesting.com
> > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 6
>Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2005 10:11:02 -0800
>From: Wayne Davidson <wdavidson at tower-structures.com>
>Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Mast stiffness
>To: jimjarvis at ieee.org
>Cc: towertalk at contesting.com
>Message-ID: <41FFC636.6A88F64F at tower-structures.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>This type of deflection problem is well known to structural
>engineers. The problem may be associated with vortex shedding
>and structural resonance. In which case, the pipe may go through
>very substantial amplitudes of vibration under relatively low
>wind forces.
>
>On the other hand a 25' tall by 2.5" O.D. pipe is very slender
>and relatively flexible. It could simply be experiencing
>large deflection due to the applied wind loads or in response
>to wind gust effect.
>
>Wayne Davison, SE, CE
>
>
>
>Jim Jarvis wrote:
>
> > When this thread started, I just KNEW someone would
> > throw in Viagra.
> >
> > At the outset, this was about some 2.5" od, 0.5" wall
> > 24' STEEL masts. The complaint was, "they flexed more
> > than I was comfortable with <snip> but they since came
> > back." It wasn't clear whether they took a set, and
> > somehow recovered, or if they simply flexed and returned
> > to normal when the load was removed.
> >
> > I suspect it was merely flexing, because once overstressed
> > and deformed, I've never seen metal return to its original
> > shape. As a result, I suspect this may be a non-problem.
> >
> > If in doubt, get an M.E. to look up the properties of the tube
> > in question, then calculate the windload upon it, given the conditions
> > you think prevailed at the time of observation. Was the load
> > anywhere near close to the tube's rating? (I'd betcha it wasn't)
> >
> > With respect to using wood to add strength to a tube...I doubt
> > oak would do much for steel, but in the case of aluminum, which
> > has a much higher modulus of elasticity, and lower strength, a
> > properly fitting oak dowel WILL significantly increase the strength
> > of the tube. Reason? It keeps the wall from deforming, adds its own
> > strength to the structure, and it tends to deflect less than aluminum.
> > Again, an M.E. would have to run the numbers to see how much
> > improvement you get...but I'm betting it's substantial.
> >
> > In closing, I'd like to see someone LIFT a 2.5" od solid steel
> > rod, 24' long, let alone get it vertical into a tower.
> > Totally Tubular (TT) is the only way to go, dudes.
> > (this WAS a west coast question, wasn't it?)
> >
> > N2EA
> > jimjarvis at ieee.org
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > See: http://www.mscomputer.com for "Self Supporting Towers", "Wireless
> Weather Stations", and lot's more. Call Toll Free, 1-800-333-9041 with
> any questions and ask for Sherman, W2FLA.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TowerTalk mailing list
> > TowerTalk at contesting.com
> > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 7
>Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 12:30:14 -0600
>From: "FireBrick" <w9ol at billnjudy.com>
>Subject: [TowerTalk] do not use stainless
>To: "TowerTalk List" <towertalk at contesting.com>
>Message-ID: <00a001c5088c$12895180$6501a8c0 at HS2>
>Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
>screws or bolts to mount a rotor to a mounting plate.
>
>I've been told by both the rotator repair men this.
>And many towertalkians have agreed.
>
>when that stainless bolt breaks or gauls.
>You will be swearing mightlily.
>
>Darn near impossible to drill out a broken stainless bolt without damaging
>the threads.
>
>
>
>-----------------------------------------------------
>Windows:(n.)2. The Gates of hell.
>-----------------------------------------------------
>
>Bill H. in Chicagoland
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>TowerTalk mailing list
>TowerTalk at contesting.com
>http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>
>
>End of TowerTalk Digest, Vol 26, Issue 4
>****************************************
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