[TowerTalk] Copper pipe for ground rods?
Tom Anderson
WW5L at gte.net
Sun Jun 12 14:36:29 EDT 2005
Gedas:
I've always had good luck in clay soil, I live in the midst of the
"blacklands" of North and Central Texas where they ground is called
"black gumbo" by most farmers. What I do is take a root feeder and put
it each location and attach a water hose and let it run for a day or so.
Once the ground got so saturated I was able to push an 8 foot ground
rod in 4 feet by hand. Also I used a fence post driver that desn't mess
up the top of a ground rod nearly as much as a sledge hammer does and I
have used both. Most garden supply stores carry the root feeders and
you can often find the feeders and the fence post driver at farm supply
stores. Just be sure to take your "shockproof" watch off before using
one of thos fence post drivers hi hi. Also you may have to use a sledge
the last couple feet since the fence post driver is 2-3 feet long.
Tom, WW5L
Gedas wrote:
>What is interesting to me are all the different opinions on one method vs.
>another. All I can do is add yet another opinion.
>
>I live in NE Indiana where the soil is nothing but solid, hard stinkin clay.
>When I was installing my 3 towers the first order of business was installing
>3 ground rods for each. I also wanted to install 3 rods near the QTH
>entrance at my metal panel. First, let me say that I was shocked at how
>difficult it was for me to get them into the ground. Second, I was using a
>combination of 1/2" steel rods (copper coated) and a bunch of 10' long 1/2"
>and 3/4" copper pipe. Using the sledge hammer on the copper pipes quickly
>resulted in mushroomed ends which had to be cut off with only several feet
>being driven into the ground. This, regardless of how careful I was hitting
>the rods. The steel rods did better but were stopped about half way down
>leaving 4 or more feet out of the ground.
>
>I'm over 6' tall and 250 pounds and am not afraid to work with a
>hammer.....let me tell you, I just could not get the rods down. The clay was
>so hard and dense it just was not working. Soon I was trying the hydro
>method on some of the 3/4" copper pipes. For my clay it just didn't work. It
>did end up making a terrible mess as the countless gallons of water were
>just emptied out around the rod at the ground surface. Remember, this is
>clay so all that water stays on the top where is makes a fine mess. I then
>tried to cut the drilling end of the copper pipe at a 45 degree angle and
>must have lifted and driven down the pipe (with water flowing) several
>hundred times before finally giving up. The driving end under ground will
>get mangled up as well sometimes making it nearly impossible to pull back
>out.
>
>Next came the heavy steel pipe over the copper pipe with end cap idea. This
>managed to get the pipes down a bit but eventually the ends of the copper
>still mushroomed. If you don't stop and cut off the bad portion it will
>become stuck inside the heavy steel pipe and you won't be able to get it
>out. Some of the copper pipes bent right after the steel pipe and once this
>happens all you can do is cut it off at ground level and start a new one. I
>even tried to carefully add water to the hole (slop area right around the
>rods) every day for over a week thinking I might be able to "soften" up the
>ground a little with no difference whatsoever.
>
>The only thing that worked, for me, and several others have mentioned this,
>was to use an impact hammer. In my case I was able to borrow a real
>industrial electric Jack-Hammer. Without any attachments the opening of the
>hammer will let you slide in a 3/4" copper pipe. Using a step ladder I was
>able to drive every rod into the clay in about 15 minutes time. It was very
>hard work as the hammer is large and weighs almost 100 pounds.
>
>Sorry for being long-winded but I wanted to share my experience in case
>someone is in the same predicament as I was. I hope this can save someone a
>bunch of time and a lot of sore back muscles and frustration.
>
>73,
>Gedas, W8BYA
>
>online image gallery at http://gedas.cc
>e-mail address at w8bya at w8bya.com
>web page at http://www.w8bya.com
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Buck - N4PGW" <n4pgw-list1 at towncorp.net>
>To: "'towertalk reflector'" <towertalk at contesting.com>
>Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2005 1:49 AM
>Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Copper pipe for ground rods?
>
>
>
>
>>I have heard a lot of pros and cons about hydro-drilling. I believe that
>>people who use one over the other will not notice what they have or don't
>>have until they compare the two. If you hydro-drill, your ground will
>>eventually pack back around the pipe. If you drop a solid rod, you will
>>add
>>a lot of elbow grease.
>>
>>If money is an issue, use the copper pipe and the water hose. If not,
>>then
>>plan on buying a short piece (about 24") of heavy-gauge steel pipe with
>>threads and an end cap. The heavy pipe will make for a rod hammer that is
>>easy to use. Just place the ground rod where you want it to go in with
>>the
>>pipe on top. Lift the pipe and let go. It will stay over the ground rod
>>and the weight will drive the pole into the ground. If you are feeling
>>really good, life the pipe and pull it down hard over the rod while
>>holding
>>onto the pipe. This could make the job go faster. Around here, the pipe
>>is
>>usually able to do the job. When the pipe gets close to the ground, use a
>>sledge hammer.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: towertalk-bounces at contesting.com [mailto:towertalk-
>>>
>>>Alan,
>>>I have used both the copper clad steel rod, and copper 3/4" copper pipe
>>>on
>>>several grounding applications in different soil textures. (from rocky
>>>clay to loam)
>>>Aside from the obvious cost advantage of copper pipe, I really prefer
>>>the
>>>pipe for it's ease of installation. If you have a source of pressurized
>>>water and a hose, it is a piece of cake to hydro-jet a 10 foot section
>>>into just about any soil including dense clay or fiable rocky material
>>>including granular volcanic material on the the Big island of Hawaii.
>>>(about 3" minus)
>>>Once you try this method, you will never go back to any other.
>>>
>>>Jon
>>>K6EL
>>>--
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Alan,
>>>>
>>>>Depending on your soil, you probably won't be able to get it in as deep
>>>>
>>>>
>>>as a
>>>
>>>
>>>>real ground rod before you start to smash the copper; at least that was
>>>>
>>>>
>>>my
>>>
>>>
>>>>experience with one I use for an electric fence around my tomatoes (I
>>>>
>>>>
>>>have
>>>
>>>
>>>>Labradors). It only went in three or four feet, but it works fine for
>>>>
>>>>
>>>my
>>>
>>>
>>>>purpose.
>>>>
>>>>73 - JC, k0hps at amsat.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>From: towertalk-bounces at contesting.com
>>>>[mailto:towertalk-bounces at contesting.com]On Behalf Of Alan NV8A (ex.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>AB2OS)
>>>
>>>
>>>>Sent: Friday, June 10, 2005 8:24 PM
>>>>To: towertalk reflector
>>>>Subject: [TowerTalk] Copper pipe for ground rods?
>>>>
>>>>Any reason not to use copper pipe for ground rods instead of the
>>>>outrageously expensive copper-clad steel ones that have almost doubled
>>>>in price over the last year or so?
>>>>
>>>>They may not comply with the NEC, but they would only be supplementary
>>>>to the existing NEC-compliant grounding system anyway.
>>>>
>>>>Alan NV8A
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>See: http://www.mscomputer.com for "Self Supporting Towers", "Wireless
>>>>Weather Stations", and lot's more. Call Toll Free, 1-800-333-9041 with
>>>>
>>>>
>>>any
>>>
>>>
>>>>questions and ask for Sherman, W2FLA.
>>>>
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>TowerTalk mailing list
>>>>TowerTalk at contesting.com
>>>>http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>See: http://www.mscomputer.com for "Self Supporting Towers", "Wireless
>>>>
>>>>
>>>Weather
>>>
>>>
>>>>Stations", and lot's more. Call Toll Free, 1-800-333-9041 with any
>>>>
>>>>
>>>questions
>>>
>>>
>>>>and ask for Sherman, W2FLA.
>>>>
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>TowerTalk mailing list
>>>>TowerTalk at contesting.com
>>>>http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>>>>
>>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>
>>>See: http://www.mscomputer.com for "Self Supporting Towers", "Wireless
>>>Weather Stations", and lot's more. Call Toll Free, 1-800-333-9041 with
>>>any questions and ask for Sherman, W2FLA.
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>TowerTalk mailing list
>>>TowerTalk at contesting.com
>>>http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>
>>See: http://www.mscomputer.com for "Self Supporting Towers", "Wireless
>>Weather Stations", and lot's more. Call Toll Free, 1-800-333-9041 with
>>any questions and ask for Sherman, W2FLA.
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>TowerTalk mailing list
>>TowerTalk at contesting.com
>>http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>See: http://www.mscomputer.com for "Self Supporting Towers", "Wireless Weather Stations", and lot's more. Call Toll Free, 1-800-333-9041 with any questions and ask for Sherman, W2FLA.
>
>_______________________________________________
>TowerTalk mailing list
>TowerTalk at contesting.com
>http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>
>
>
>
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