[TowerTalk] Porcupines and other wives tales

Fri Jul 7 14:16:39 EDT 2006

Too ignorant to take sides, but I found this paper interesting:
http://www.phy.olemiss.edu/~jgladden/phys510/spring06/Gurevich.pdf

I also recall the paper that "proved" bees can't fly (everyone remembers the
paper, no one remembers the retraction).

NU6T
Rich

Motherlode DX and Contest Club.
Number One in CQP
www.mldxcc.com

CU in the California QSO Party (CQP)
www.cqp.org,  Oct 7-8 2006

-----Original Message-----
From: towertalk-bounces at contesting.com
[mailto:towertalk-bounces at contesting.com]On Behalf Of David Robbins
K1TTT
Sent: Friday, July 07, 2006 10:55 AM
To: reflector -tower
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Porcupines and other wives tales

An 'essay' on a web site is hardly a peer reviewed journal article in a
publication specializing in lightning.  I'll stick with the explanations out
of those publications for now, thank you.

David Robbins K1TTT
e-mail: mailto:k1ttt at arrl.net
web: http://www.k1ttt.net
AR-Cluster node: 145.69MHz or telnet://dxc.k1ttt.net

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Keith Dutson [mailto:kdutson at sbcglobal.net]
> Sent: Friday, July 07, 2006 00:06
> To: k1ttt at arrl.net; towertalk at contesting.com
> Subject: RE: [TowerTalk] Porcupines and other wives tales
>
> Judge for yourself the effect of cosmic rays on strikes:
>
> http://www.scienceforpeople.com/Essays/electrifying.htm
>
> 73, Keith NM5G
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: towertalk-bounces at contesting.com
> [mailto:towertalk-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of David Robbins K1TTT
> Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 5:41 PM
> To: towertalk at contesting.com
> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Porcupines and other wives tales
>
> Actually if you read some of the old literature about radioactive tips,
> and
> some other fancy schemes to make franklin type rods work better the idea
> was
> to help formation of the upward streamer from the rod to get it to strike
> the rod more often.  There is no way a little bit of ionization caused by
> those sources could bleed off any more charge, but they supposedly could
> help a bit forming that first streamer... kind of like cosmic rays may
> help
> form the leader in the cloud.  There were also other fancy devices that
> looked like cones, or rods with balls and gaps to create sparks, all sorts
> of odd things, but the idea on all of them was to create a better chance
> of
> the rod getting hit, not to get rid of strokes.  People back then
> understood, there is little man could do to prevent such a huge event, all
> you can do is hope to guide the energy away from your cows and cooking pot
> in the hearth.
>
>
> David Robbins K1TTT
> e-mail: mailto:k1ttt at arrl.net
> web: http://www.k1ttt.net
> AR-Cluster node: 145.69MHz or telnet://dxc.k1ttt.net
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: towertalk-bounces at contesting.com [mailto:towertalk-
> > bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Gary Schafer
> > Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 18:09
> > To: 'Bill Aycock'; 'Keith Dutson'; 'Jim Jarvis';
> > towertalk at contesting.com
> > Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Porcupines and other wives tales
> >
> > Charge can not be altered or bled off enough to make any difference.
> > The earth can re-supply the charge many times faster than you can reduce
> it.
> > It
> > is worth reading the below article that Tom Osborne referenced in
> > another thread. It shows the math on how to calculate the charge being
> > bled of from sharp points.
> >
> > http://www.lightningsafety.com/nlsi_lhm/magic.pdf
> >
> > It shows at what field level corona starts and what typical levels are
> > in approaching storms.
> >
> > The build up of ions around the sharp points are also quickly blown
> > away by the wind. There is another company that touts an air terminal
> > with a small radio active tip that is supposed to create an ion field
> > around it to enhance the charge bleed off. Problem is the ions do not
> > stay put in the space because of the wind.
> >
> > For those that still believe in this magic of reduction of charge as a
> > protective device, I have for sale some rabbits feet that you can hang
> > on your tower to reduce lightning strikes. I have had one on my tower
> > for years and never had a strike. Proof that they work!
> >
> > 73
> > Gary  K4FMX
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: towertalk-bounces at contesting.com [mailto:towertalk-
> > > bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Bill Aycock
> > > Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2006 4:15 PM
> > > To: Keith Dutson; 'Jim Jarvis'; towertalk at contesting.com
> > > Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Porcupines and other wives tales
> > >
> > >
> > > Keith-
> > > Your statement below the excerpt from Jim, (below) is NOT true. It
> > > is
> > not
> > > a
> > > matter of bleeding off the entire charge field, it is only a matter
> > > of changing the distribution of the charge. Changing the contour of
> > > the potential field to make another place the weakest path is all you
> need.
> > > I know many "experts" put the idea of bleeding off charge down, but
> > > I
> > have
> > > seen professionals in related fields give arguments just as well
> > > documented on the other side.
> > > Quit assuming the whole energy packet has to be controlled, and
> > > think about using finesse, instead.
> > > Bill-W4BSG
> > >
> > > At 03:03 PM 7/4/2006 -0500, Keith Dutson wrote:
> > >
> > > > >The measured energy of the strike is not the point here. The
> > > > >point is
> > > to
> > > >try and prevent the charge build up to where the strike occurs.
> > > >
> > > >Well, if you are going to prevent a strike, you basically have to
> > > >bleed
> > > off
> > > >all of the strike energy.  I don't think that is possible.
> > > >
> > > >73, Keith NM5G
> > >
> > > Bill Aycock - W4BSG
> > > Woodville, Alabama
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > >
> > >
> > >
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> >
> >
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