[TowerTalk] tower wanted

Wed Nov 29 20:13:23 EST 2006

 Want a hdx 572 tower anyone know where I can get one used?

-----Original Message-----
From: towertalk-request at contesting.com
To: towertalk at contesting.com
Sent: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 5:47 PM
Subject: TowerTalk Digest, Vol 47, Issue 116

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: TowerTalk Digest, Vol 47, Issue 115 (Craig Clark)
   2. Re: Stretching THHN house wiring (Lee Buller)
   3. Re: Stretching THHN house wiring (BRENT BAUM)
   4. Re: Stuck aluminum tubes and caution (john at kk9a.com)
   5. Rust on Tower Cable (Fritz Hurd)
   6. Re: stacking monobanders (Rick Karlquist)
   7. Re: How do you separate aluminium tubes that are
      stucktogether ? (Keith Dutson)
   8. Re: Stuck aluminum tubes and caution (K8RI on TowerTalk)
   9. Re: Stuck aluminum tubes and caution (Peter Chadwick)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 14:41:15 -0500
From: Craig Clark <jcclark at wildblue.net>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] TowerTalk Digest, Vol 47, Issue 115
To: towertalk at contesting.com
Message-ID: <20061129194333.4A94336D054 at mail.wildblue.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

>    4. Stretching THHN house wiring (Pete Smith)

Pete

THHN and almost all other kinds of home electrical wire is soft drawn copper.

It will stretch and you have to account for the insulation in your 
calculations.

73, Craig Clark, K1QX

RADIOWARE AND RADIO BOOKSTORE
PO  BOX 209
RINDGE NH 03461
603 899 6957
WWW.RADIO-WARE.COM

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 12:22:45 -0800 (PST)
From: Lee Buller <k0wa at swbell.net>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Stretching THHN house wiring
To: Pete Smith <n4zr at contesting.com>,   TowerTalk Reflector
    <towertalk at contesting.com>
Message-ID: <77041.99007.qm at web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Pete,

  What I have done before putting up THHN House wiring is to pre-streach it.  I 
would take about 100 foot or so....then tie one end to a fence post and the 
other to the bumper on my car.  Drive off till it broke.  The streach is gone 
and the place it broke was weak anyway.

  At least, that is how I rationalized it.  Worked for me for years

  Lee -K0WA

In our day and age it seems that Common Sense is in short supply.  If you don't 
have any Common Sense - get some Common Sense and use it.  If you can't find any 
Common Sense, ask for help from somebody who has some Common Sense.  Is Common 
Sense devine?

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 13:30:17 -0700
From: "BRENT BAUM" <brentbaum5323 at msn.com>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Stretching THHN house wiring
To: k0wa at swbell.net, n4zr at contesting.com, towertalk at contesting.com
Message-ID: <BAY107-F6F9EADB845B2B06EDBCA9B6E40 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

Interesting technique. I'm willing to bet 3 rusted tower bolts that 80 to 
90% of the time the wire broke where it was connected to either the fence 
post or the car. Sharp bends and knots are usually the weakest points, 
whether it's antenna wire or climbing rope.

A note of caution when using this technique: tie a large rag or two on the 
wire to reduce the whipping action when it breaks, and keep dogs and small 
children at a safe distance.

73 K7MEI, Brent

>From: Lee Buller <k0wa at swbell.net>
>To: Pete Smith <n4zr at contesting.com>,TowerTalk Reflector 
><towertalk at contesting.com>
>Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Stretching THHN house wiring
>Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 12:22:45 -0800 (PST)
>
>Pete,
>
>   What I have done before putting up THHN House wiring is to pre-streach 
>it.  I would take about 100 foot or so....then tie one end to a fence post 
>and the other to the bumper on my car.  Drive off till it broke.  The 
>streach is gone and the place it broke was weak anyway.
>
>   At least, that is how I rationalized it.  Worked for me for years
>
>   Lee -K0WA
>
>
>
>In our day and age it seems that Common Sense is in short supply.  If you 
>don't have any Common Sense - get some Common Sense and use it.  If you 
>can't find any Common Sense, ask for help from somebody who has some Common 
>Sense.  Is Common Sense devine?
>_______________________________________________
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>TowerTalk mailing list
>TowerTalk at contesting.com
>http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk

------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 15:33:08 -0500
From: <john at kk9a.com>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Stuck aluminum tubes and caution
To: <TOWERTALK at contesting.com>
Message-ID: <001901c713f5$996cd430$55f22143 at Basement>
Content-Type: text/plain;   charset="iso-8859-1"

I would be a little cautious about using PB Blaster.  I believe it's
basically made for unsticking rusted steel parts.  I tried Liquid Wrench
once to loosen some antenna parts and it made it more difficult.  WD-40
works well.  I'm not sure how well heat or cold will work as aluminum is a
good conductor.  The only sections I ever had trouble getting apart were
ones that were tight to begin with.  Make sure that you have around 0.005"
clearance between sections before assembling.

John KK9A

To: <towertalk at contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Stuck aluminum tubes and caution
From: "K8RI on TowerTalk" <K8RI-on-TowerTalk at tm.net>
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 14:20:14 -0500
List-post: <mailto:towertalk at contesting.com>

As others have already noted penetrating oil and heat, but I'd add a caution
about heat.

As for penetrating oils, PB-Blaster is one of the best along with MouseMilk
(really). You'll probably be more likely to find PB-Blaster at the hardware
and big box stores.  The stuff works far, far better than WD-40 which isn't
all that bad. Given a choice though and particularly when I maybe saving
substantial money, I'd get some of the PB-Blaster.  Use patience. Stand the
tubes on end so the penetrating oil will tend to drain into the tubes and
give it over night.  If if won't come apart by itself then go ahead and use
some heat, sparingly.

A little more drastic would be packing the inside with dry ice just before
heating the outside.

Good Luck,

Roger Halstead (K8RI and ARRL 40 year Life Member)
N833R - World's oldest Debonair CD-2
www.rogerhalstead.com

------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 16:23:16 -0500
From: "Fritz Hurd" <fred.hurd at cox.net>
Subject: [TowerTalk] Rust on Tower Cable
To: <towertalk at contesting.com>
Message-ID: <000e01c713fc$956f1580$0b00a8c0 at w4pku700f0857f>
Content-Type: text/plain;   charset="iso-8859-1"

Hi Guys  - I have a motor driven US Tower that I installed six years ago and 
still works great (Model 472). Recently I have noticed a rust build-up on the 
cable around the motor drive pulleys but not up the tower. My question is 
whether or not this is a potential problem that could weaken the cable. The 
cable looks and moves fine, but it is turning brown with rust around the motor 
area. I suppose I could cover the motor and lower pulleys with tarp, but I'm not 
sure that is necessary...any sugestions from your experiences?  FRITZ W4PKU

------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 13:48:07 -0800 (PST)
From: "Rick Karlquist" <richard at karlquist.com>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] stacking monobanders
To: "K4SAV" <RadioIR at charter.net>
Cc: towertalk at contesting.com
Message-ID:
    <22332.192.25.240.225.1164836887.squirrel at webmail.sonic.net>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1

K4SAV wrote:
> You overlooked one other complicating factor, feedline length. The
> length of the feedline on the unused antenna determines if the unused
> antenna looks resonant or not.

No I didn't overlook that.  I installed remote relays that disconnected
both halves of the unused inverted vee from the coax.

> Experimental A/B testing of closely mounted antennas with uncontrolled
> parameters of feedline length and source impedance can produce some
> really weird results.

The antenna under test was terminated in 50 ohms at all times.

>> Hi, Rick.
>>
>> Those are interesting comments, so I modeled it up with EZNEC with
>> approximately resonant antennas to see what it looked like.  Your
>> message says "inverted vee's" (plural), so I'm making the leap to
>> assume you had all three inverted vee's up at the same time and were
>> able to switch between them.  Please correct me if I'm wrong ... and

Yes I did that.

>> None of this data should be taken too literally, of course, but the
>> model implies a lot of parasitic coupling between the three antennas
>> that affects the pattern even when only one of the antennas is being
>> fed.  Individually, the signal level at 20 degrees varies by 8 db

An inverted vee with its feed point open circuited has virtually
no parasitic coupling effects (you can easily model this).

>> It would be interesting to see someone hang an inverted vee from a
>> pully and rope and take signal strength readings at different
>> heights.  I don't have my tower up yet at this new QTH, but if nobody
>> has done so by the time I get the tower up I'll promise to give it a
>> try.
>>
>> 73,
>> Dave  AB7E

Did that too.  We put an 80m inverted vee on a 115 ft crank up tower
and A/B'ed it with a ground mounted vertical.
At full height, it was on a par with the vertical for DX.  For
locals, it was always better than the vertical, but the difference
was 10 dB more at low heights.  At low heights, the vertical beat
the vee by 10 dB on DX.  This all agrees with modeling.
For some reason, we don't see this neat relationship on 40 meters.

Hopefully, next spring, the MonstIR will go up on the crank up and
we can see how it works at various heights on 40 meters.

Rick N6RK

------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 15:55:52 -0600
From: "Keith Dutson" <kdutson at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] How do you separate aluminium tubes that are
    stucktogether ?
To: <towertalk at contesting.com>
Message-ID: <005401c71401$24526190$6a2d490c at KEITHSUPPORT>
Content-Type: text/plain;   charset="us-ascii"

If all else fails, try heating and cooling the joint several times.  Heat
with a hair drier and cool with an ice pack.  The expansion and contraction
will sometimes break the corrosion enough to loosen the joint.

73, Keith NM5G 

-----Original Message-----
From: towertalk-bounces at contesting.com
[mailto:towertalk-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Robert Thain
Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 7:13 AM
To: towertalk at contesting.com
Subject: [TowerTalk] How do you separate aluminium tubes that are
stucktogether ?

Hello,

How do you separate aluminium tubes that are stuck together ?

We have a 2 section boom  that we want to separate but the pieces are stuck
together. The boom is joined at the centre by a smaller tube that goes
inside the outer tubes (the boom). (The boom sleeves the smaller fixing
section in the middle.) We easily removed the bolts but the 3 pieces of tube
are stuck together. The antenna is only a year old, but we did not protect
the surface before assembly. 
I fear that it may be corroded together.
So, how do you separate aluminium tubes that are stuck, without damaging
them. 

I've looked back through the archives , but did not find anything......

Thanks
Robert G0HGW(at)yahoo.com (at) = @

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Message: 8
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 17:23:10 -0500
From: "K8RI on TowerTalk" <K8RI-on-TowerTalk at tm.net>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Stuck aluminum tubes and caution
To: <TOWERTALK at contesting.com>
Message-ID: <001701c71404$f75c1420$6500a8c0 at SecondOne>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
    reply-type=original

>I would be a little cautious about using PB Blaster.  I believe it's
> basically made for unsticking rusted steel parts.  I tried Liquid Wrench

"I think" it'll work well with Aluminum too, but I make no gurantees and I'm 
not running out to the shop to read the lable as it's pouring rain as in 
visibility no more than a couple hundred yards. Forecase was for light 
scattered showeres.

> once to loosen some antenna parts and it made it more difficult.  WD-40
> works well.  I'm not sure how well heat or cold will work as aluminum is a
> good conductor.  The only sections I ever had trouble getting apart were
> ones that were tight to begin with.  Make sure that you have around 0.005"
> clearance between sections before assembling.

You mean this approach may not work with those two sections I drove 
together? <g> Brand new too.  It was part of an antenna boom.  They sent me 
new parts within two days. It'd be nice to save them and they've lain up on 
top of the shelving out in the shop for years.  I'll probably end up using a 
small rotary saw or cutter in a mill to slot the outter tube enough to get 
them apart. That'll save the inner one and still leave me with about 6 feet 
of the larger stuff (that's out of spec)

Roger (K8RI) 

------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 23:47:34 +0100 (CET)
From: Peter Chadwick <g3rzp at g3rzp.wanadoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Stuck aluminum tubes and caution
To: K8RI on TowerTalk <K8RI-on-TowerTalk at tm.net>,
    TOWERTALK at contesting.com
Message-ID: <25585070.239701164840454645.JavaMail.www at wwinf3201>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

I've done this a couple of times, and had no problems wih galling when twisting 
the tubing - but YMMV.
Meantime, there's two bits of a 205BA boom lying along side the hedge in my 
garden waiting for the buyer to come and separate them and take them away.  
Tried so far has been penetrating oil, heat, hammer, and a windlass between two 
substantial trees.......plus a lot of bad language.
Some you win...........
73
Peter G3RZP

------------------------------

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End of TowerTalk Digest, Vol 47, Issue 116
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