[TowerTalk] TowerTalk Digest, Vol 55, Issue 50

Mon Jul 9 15:05:12 EDT 2007

I have received a good many replies to my original Question regarding TX-438 Yaesu800s .It is a used tower.I think I could get away with it but I would be pushing the envelope.Thanks to all who replied Martin N1KGP

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Today's Topics:

1. Re: Insulator/RTV (Roger (K8RI))
2. Ask the What? (Doug Renwick)
3. Re: Ask the experts - rooftop installs and more
(Cedrick "Fred" Johnson - WT2P)
4. Re: Ask the What? (Jim Brown)
5. US Towers TX472 question (Dale LaFrance)
6. Restoring a tristao cz454 tower (hcawthra at sbcglobal.net)
7. Re: Ask the What? (Tom Osborne)
8. Rooftop antennas (Barry Kirkwood)
9. Re: Ask the What? (wa5zup)

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Message: 1
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2007 23:34:59 -0400
From: "Roger (K8RI)" 
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Insulator/RTV
To: "Blake M" , 
Message-ID: <002901c7c1da$261fd480$6400a8c0 at shop32>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original

> I've found that most RTV's peel off easily because the acetic acid has
> corroded whatever it's in contact with.

Not all RTVs use acetic acid. Silastic Brand RTV (TM) has both the regular 
and elecronic grades. In addition they also have different grades of 
adhesive (which definately do not pull off easily)

>
> Look for a "sensor safe" type, like Permatex Ultrablack 598B.
>
Be *very* careful with "black" RTVs. Some use carbon black for pigment and 
are not something you want in contact with conductors where you have RF 
and/or high voltage.

Roger (K8RI)

> http://tinyurl.com/gbhzc
>
> No affiliation....
>
> 73,
> Blake N4GI
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: towertalk-bounces at contesting.com
> [mailto:towertalk-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Howard W3CQH
>
> Al,
>
> You might want to consider using 1 of the GE RTV products to reseal the
> unit. Most of the RTV's will peel off very easily after scoring it with a
> sharp object, i.e.: knife blade, etc.
>
> Check which of the products likes the environment.
>
> My $0.02 - 73's Howard W3CQH
>
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Message: 2
Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2007 21:54:25 -0600
From: Doug Renwick 
Subject: [TowerTalk] Ask the What?
To: towertalk at contesting.com
Cc: w1ksz at earthlink.net, 'Jim Brown' 
Message-ID: <000001c7c1dc$d9772ae0$ec6da58e at doug4>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1250

Cheers,
Steve K7LXC
TT ADMIN 

PS - What's the old saying? Better to be a fool in silence than open
your 
mouth and let everyone know that you are?

Jim Brown you owe all an apology for your rant! Arrogant, condescending
remarks do not contribute anything positive to this list. You have
displayed your ignorance. You base some of your statements on a single
test ... you should know better. Test results have to be reproducible.
That is the tests need to be repeated by another group of qualified
testers. If the second set of tests agrees with the first then there is
a high probability that the results are close to the true unknown value.
Otherwise to me the first test is just an indication, not an absolute,
and nothing more.
Steve and Ward did a lot of work ... I don't sense anyone saying
otherwise. Try to remember that we are human and ALL humans can make
mistakes and tests can be wrong. Test results have to be reproducible.
What you have overlooked is that Dick is satisfied with his Mosley ...
it works well for him. So what is YOUR problem with Dick's
satisfaction?

Doug/VA5DX

This "Mosley Bashing" has finally hit my button !!
I have a PRO-57A and am very satisfied with it. It
is my understanding that subsequent models were
"improved". I have not seen any published data from
verifiable sources except those peddling their
"comparisons" which I don't intend to pay for.

Not every ham has the real estate to put up Mono-
Banders on Sky-Needles, so, as it is in life, one
must make compromises. But I cannot accept that the
PRO-57A is that bad, not without proof.

73, Dick, W1KSZ

And YOU have hit mine!!! 

Do you have a clue about how much work it takes to obtain ACCURATE 
data on the performance of an antenna? To measure the gain, you 
must build the antenna, get it up in the air on a substantial 
tower and rotor in some test range where there is nothing to 
seriously distort the data, make sure that it is properly tuned, 
drive it with a transmitter, and MEASURE the field strength at 
some distance that is representative of its far field pattern. To 
measure the pattern, you must repeat those measurements every 5-10 
degrees. 4-5 guys could easily work a full day to do that if the 
transmitting and receiving towers were already there and nothing 
went wrong. It could easily take twice that time if Mr Murphy came 
to call. 

To measure another antenna, you must take the first one down, put 
the new one up, and repeat that process. And, of course, you must 
have purchased or borrowed the antenna in the first place. And 
even if it was borrowed or donated, you still must spend the time 
and money to unpack, handle, repack, and return it. 

Those "peddling their comparisons" have HUNDREDS of man hours and 
a significant dollar investment in those measurements, and YOU are 
either too stupid or too cheap to contribute to their work. You 
clearly don't deserve to benefit from it. 

73,

Jim Brown K9YC

No virus found in this outgoing message.
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08/07/2007 6:32 PM

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Message: 3
Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2007 00:00:19 -0400
From: "Cedrick \"Fred\" Johnson - WT2P" 
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Ask the experts - rooftop installs and more
To: "towertalk at contesting.com" 
Message-ID: <4691B2D3.202 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

thank you.. I had forgotten about Glen Martin... this would be perfect!

even have the rt-8900 non penetrating flat roof base.... that will win 
points with my landlord

73,
wt2p

Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-655-8604 wrote:
> Note that Glen Martin has rooftop towers, and a nonpenetrating mount.
>
> http://www.glenmartin.com/catalog/page14.html
> http://www.glenmartin.com/catalog/page155.html
>
> A Steppir on one of those on a reasaonably tall building would work
> pretty well.
>
> The ground plane for a vertical would be a fair amount of hassle on
> top of a building, I think

------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2007 21:10:40 -0700
From: "Jim Brown" 
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Ask the What?
To: "towertalk at contesting.com" 
Message-ID: <20070709041044.58F0557CC2 at gw1.nlenet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 21:54:25 -0600, Doug Renwick wrote:

>Jim Brown you owe all an apology for your rant! 

I stand by my post. Anyone who doesn't like what I write is 
welcome to delete it. I am one of those who has done a lot of work 
(years worth), and shared it. I've also published my test setup in 
detail, so that anyone who wished to confirm it can do so. I know 
what real research is. I haven't seen the work that Steve and his 
collaborators have done, but I suspect it's pretty good, and I 
suspect that it is documented. I don't use beam antennas, so the 
topic is not of direct interest to me. But if it was, and if 
someone else did serious measurements and published them, I'd buy 
and study them all. 

I don't owe anyone an apology. Cheap is cheap. Head in sand is 
head in sand. I don't support "bashing" of one product over 
another without technical backup, nor do I support mindless 
defense of a product solely on the basis that a person made the 
decision to buy it. 

I finished my EE in 1964. I've been studying something nearly 
every day since. Some of it in EE, some of it in very different 
fields. When you stop, it's time for someone to throw dirt on you. 

FWIW -- in the past four hours, I've received a half dozen emails 
appreciating my comments from others who I know to be actively 
doing real research. 

73,

Jim Brown K9YC

------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2007 04:12:02 +0000
From: "Dale LaFrance" 
Subject: [TowerTalk] US Towers TX472 question
To: towertalk at contesting.com
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

Hello all, I would like to know what would be a good offer to make on an 
excellent condition US Towers TX472 Self-Supporting tower with with 
tilt-over fixture and 4 Coaxal stand-off arms. This tower is up now, but 
nested, and looks in new (excellent) condition, has been up for less than 
five years. I would be doing all the work on taking the tower down and just 
wanted to get an idea of what I should offer for the tower. Thanks

_________________________________________________________________
http://liveearth.msn.com

------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2007 21:18:47 -0700
From: 
Subject: [TowerTalk] Restoring a tristao cz454 tower
To: 
Message-ID: <20070709042031.A938A31A193 at dayton.contesting.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Hello, Been following the info about the cz454, I have one and pulled out my
instruction/manual. The cz454 and the cz454fs [free standing ] are the same
tower with different bases. CZ454 2'6"x2'6"x2' light wt one piece mounting
plate using 3-8 bolts in the concrete., also house bracket or guyed at the
top of first section. The free standing base is 3' x 3' x 5'6" using 1" x
36" bolts. I could fax a copy of this info to who ever needs it. I built a
base like US Towers use. Howard KA6IOB

------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2007 21:26:33 -0700
From: "Tom Osborne" 
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Ask the What?
To: "Towertalk" 
Message-ID: <003001c7c1e1$5564a4d0$eec8fea9 at Tom>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1;
reply-type=original

Anyone remember what the original question was in this thread? 
Tom W7WHY

------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 09:58:12 +0000
From: "Barry Kirkwood" 
Subject: [TowerTalk] Rooftop antennas
To: towertalk at contesting.com
Message-ID:
<6af59d090707090258w58802b7ap7195014b543498e0 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Have no experience with high rooftop antenna mounting, but someone on the
reflector might kindly do a little terrain modelling for you.
My hunch is that a short mast on the roof supporting a beam would do the
trick, especially if close to the parapet in the most favoured direction.
For the lower bands, indeed all bands, I would first try a horizontal
loop around the perimeter of the roof. Since interference could be a
problem, would try feeding with binocular coax. With a simple balun the
built in antenna tuner in most transceivers should do the trick, typically
such loops have moderate feed impedances.
cheers and 73
Baz ZL1DD

-- 
Barry Kirkwood ZL1DD
barrykirkwood at gmail.com

------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 06:16:15 -0600
From: "wa5zup" 
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Ask the What?
To: "'Towertalk'" 
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"

Darn good question!

First time tower erector. I have a TX-438 crank up with a Yaesu G-800S
rotor. I would like to put a Mosley Pro 67-C Any suggestions Would be
greatly appreciated.

You think he got the answer he was looking for!!

He did not say if this was new stuff or used. Which might have made a
difference.

-----Original Message-----
From: towertalk-bounces at contesting.com
[mailto:towertalk-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Tom Osborne
Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2007 10:27 PM
To: Towertalk
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Ask the What?

Anyone remember what the original question was in this thread? 
Tom W7WHY

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End of TowerTalk Digest, Vol 55, Issue 50
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