[TowerTalk] DAVIS RF CO. response to FLEX-WEAVE Tm and Aerial WireRecommendations
Steve Davis -Davis RF Co.
sdavis at davisrf.com
Wed Jan 2 18:18:39 EST 2008
Chet, Tnx very much. I didn't take Jim's remarks as a complaint, but it is
definitely a concern, which I always will address. I will see how fast we
can get the cleaning for soldering point on to the web site, and will make
note here also when it is posted.
Tnx agn, Steve, K1PEK
DAVIS RF Co.
sdavis at DavisRF.com
978-369-1738
~ Davis RF Co., Div. of Orion Wire Co.,Inc.
Distribution to numerous industries, Andrew
Heliax; Times Microwave LMR; RFS Celwave and others.
Cable design engineering. RF Peripherals.
www.davisRF.com
Tel: 1-800-328-4773 (1-800-DAVIS RF) Tech'l: 1-978-369-
1738, Fax: 1-978-369-3484
~ DAVIS/ORION Marine Wire and Cable Co., Distribution and Design: UL/USCG
Marine Stds. Tel: 877-242-2253 Fax: 603-787-2221 (Direct tel to Steve
Davis: 978-369-1738 or Fax: 978-369-3484)
~Orion Wire Co., Inc., Design Engineers of Specialty/Custom Cable
Tel: 1-800-328-4773, 1-603-787-2200 Fax 1-603-787-2221,
email: j_stimson at davis-orionwiregroup.com
www.davisRF.com
---- Original Message -----
From: "Chet Moore" <ChetMoore at cox.net>
To: "Steve Davis -Davis RF Co." <sdavis at davisrf.com>;
<towertalk at contesting.com>; <jim at audiosystemsgroup.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 6:06 PM
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] DAVIS RF CO. response to FLEX-WEAVE Tm and Aerial
WireRecommendations
> Hi Steve,
>
> I don't think Jims message was really a complaint, maybe it was in there
> but I don't think he said how old that wire was when it broke. I too
> have had a problem with flex weave but, the flex-weave was 9 years old
> when it broke during Hurricane ophelia. The "break" occurred at a joint
> that was under a fair amount of stress. When its that old, it is hard to
> resolder but i certainly don't blame the manufacturer. I don't know what
> you consider the "useful life" of flex-weave to be. Thanks for providing
> some background on Flex-weave. After seeing your description of how its
> made etc I am now pretty sure "wire brushing mine at the end where the
> wire parted,was not the way to handle the problem. This antenna has been
> back up for 4 more years and I found a way to reduce some of the strain.
> I have sealed the joint with some coax seal and for the moment, it seems
> fine. I will be looking for your post on your web site that tells what
> the "best" way to clean/splice/solder it should the need arise in the
> future.
>
> I'd use flex-weave again in a heartbeat.
>
> Thanks for taking the time to explain how it made and it's obvious that
> you do indeed stand by your products.
>
> 73
>
> Chet N4FX
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Davis -Davis RF Co." <sdavis at davisrf.com>
> To: <towertalk at contesting.com>; <jim at audiosystemsgroup.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 4:00 PM
> Subject: [TowerTalk] DAVIS RF CO. response to FLEX-WEAVE Tm and Aerial
> WireRecommendations
>
>
>> Hello folks, I'd like to respond to comments ref. Flex-Weave Tm, a
>> product that I introduced in l988. First, I am very sorry that Jim,
>> K9YC, experienced the difficulties that he noted. DAVIS RF Co. has been
>> well known for taking extraordinary care of any issues brought to our
>> attention. Our devotion to our definition, "Client Satisfaction", has
>> been paramount since day one. I only regret that so many other companies
>> leave a sour taste in many folks' minds such that customers often are
>> hesitant to contact an owner when dissatisfied. Jim may contact me about
>> his past problems and perhaps I can satisfy him in some way, if only
>> partially vs. the time which he indicates he has spent with Flex-Weave
>> Tm.
>>
>>
>>
>> Many millions of feet of Flex-Weave Tm have been sold. Concerns by
>> customers have been very limited and of the many dealers, government
>> entities, and military units, nobody has ceased use of this product.
>>
>>
>>
>> "Significant mechanical stress": I would likely be as subjective if I
>> were to say that, based on my wire and cable design standards, the only
>> RF wire used for significant mechanical stress should be copper clad
>> steel, appropriately sized. I would have to have seen the construction
>> of the antennas that Jim refers to in order to be able to judge if any
>> mechanical stresses occurred beyond the scope of Flex-Weave Tm. I have
>> received many accolades regarding the durability of Flex-Weave, over long
>> years of life (also on TT from salty Cape Cod, to "windy mountain top") .
>>
>>
>>
>> To address Flex-Weave ( " FW " ) itself: The # 14 is 168 strands of a
>> # 36 copper strand and the # 12 is 259 strands, both configured in a
>> "rope lay" production process which establishes best strength. Although
>> we have received many accolades about this product, and have sold it to
>> the commercial and military market, there is one environmental aspect
>> that we have found over the years which we must now make clear on our web
>> site and in discussion with customers. Acid rain, and salt air
>> environment, carries with it an inherent shortening of life with any
>>
>> copper product, and more so with such multi stranded, very small OD,
>> strandings of copper. For many years we have had an alternative choice
>> for hi acid rain and salt air environments: one product with high UV
>> resistant PVC (note: there are many compounds of PVC, only a few are
>> comprised of UV inhibitor).
>>
>>
>>
>> We also use PE (polyethylene) jacketing. PE inherently is UV resistant
>> because it lacks UV sensitive plasticizers. Our PVC jacketing is
>> obtainable in black, clear and camouflage green. the most stealth and
>> popular is black. The PE is available only in black. NOTE: The PE is
>> very abrasive resistant due to a higher durometer and is very popular
>> with hams that have limited space and must drape some of the aerial over
>> tree limbs, thus rubbing/abrasion occurs. Someone else's comment
>> referring to "tough PVC" is a bit of a misnomer. In most cases, as with
>> our products, PE is considerably "tougher" (higher durometer/abrasion/UV
>> resistant) than PVC.
>>
>>
>>
>> Regarding THHN": A majority of our business is in specialty and
>> custom cable design and fulfillment of custom cables and wires. Thus we
>> must know numerous dielectric materials, cable design, conductive
>> materials and ambient influences. Ref. to THHN, in the context of one
>> comment, is likely referring to household AC circuitry wiring, as you all
>> know. THHN is the type of insulation system that is PVC with a nylon
>> overcoat and this wiring comprises a type of annealed copper that will
>> eventually stretch. I respect the sometimes circulated idea of using it
>> for short wire antennas, but I do not recommend it for any aerial of any
>> length. It also ties into the old adage, "you get what you pay for".
>>
>>
>>
>> To clarify another comment: Flex-Weave Tm ( "FW ") was introduced
>> first to the ham market and was, and still is, the most flexible aerial
>> wire on the market. It did lend itself to rapid deploy, and use by the
>> military. However, it was never considered as a "short-life" wire. As
>> noted, for longer life in problem environments, use our jacketed types,
>> and you can still tie it in bowline or other knots to highly secure to
>> insulators, etc. Also, jacketed FW is virtually "kink-proof". Bare FW
>> can kink if not handled somewhat carefully, but kinks less than many
>> other wire options.
>>
>>
>>
>> With regard to "tough PVC" for long life, please opt for PE jacketed,
>> like "Poly Stealth 13" (13 AWG), and I can almost assure you that the PE
>> jacket will survive in "breathable" environments for 25-30 years or more,
>> as far as atmospheric influences are concerned ("current" atmospherics,
>> and lets hope we get "greener" as time evolves !! HI). "Poly Stealth 13"
>> consists of a 19 strand CCS (copper clad steel, also ref'd to as "Copper
>> Weld", a tm of Copperweld Bimetallics, LLC.), it is NOT Flex-Weave Tm.
>> FW12P and FW14P, and the FW12 or 14 PVC is also available from us, or
>> many of our authorized dealers.
>>
>>
>>
>> DAVIS RF Co. supplies wire materials to best suit particular
>> applications. I apologize for being remiss in not recognizing sooner
>> that we need to put info on our site as to the effects of acid rain and
>> salt air on fine bare copper lays. Also, I admit that if a Flex - Weave
>> Tm wire didn't last a year, then I can't blame Jim's Santa Cruz area salt
>> air environment. All I can say, honestly, is that I have only few
>> concerns over the 19 years of Flex Weave and yes, I've had maybe 10
>> questions as to how to easily deal with cleaning and resoldering (which I
>> will put on our website ASAP, and let TT know). Only other few concerns:
>> using bare FW for quads: as I have told many quad planners, you must
>> adequately
>>
>> compensate for abrasion where passing through, or around spreaders.
>> Think "hair like" copper strands (# 36 AWG), but it WILL work, and you
>> will like the overall system flexibility. Better yet, use PVC jacketed
>> FW.
>>
>>
>>
>> I just hope that people will trust that I am honest, friendly, and more
>> than happy to discuss, and resolve, any of their concerns. It is never my
>> intent to sell product that is inappropriate for the application:
>> electrically, mechanically, or satisfaction worthy.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank you for your time to review this.
>>
>>
>>
>> 73,
>>
>>
>>
>> Steve Davis, K1PEK
>>
>> DAVIS RF Co.
>>
>> sdavis at DavisRF.com
>>
>> 978-369-1738
>>
>> ~ Davis RF Co., Div. of Orion Wire Co.,Inc.
>> Distribution to numerous industries, Andrew
>> Heliax; Times Microwave LMR; RFS Celwave and others.
>> Cable design engineering. RF Peripherals.
>> www.davisRF.com
>> Tel: 1-800-328-4773 (1-800-DAVIS RF) Tech'l: 1-978-369-
>> 1738, Fax: 1-978-369-3484
>>
>>
>> ~ DAVIS/ORION Marine Wire and Cable Co., Distribution and Design: UL/USCG
>> Marine Stds. Tel: 877-242-2253 Fax: 603-787-2221 (Direct tel to Steve
>> Davis: 978-369-1738 or Fax: 978-369-3484)
>>
>> ~Orion Wire Co., Inc., Design Engineers of Specialty/Custom Cable
>> Tel: 1-800-328-4773, 1-603-787-2200 Fax 1-603-787-2221,
>> email: j_stimson at davis-orionwiregroup.com
>> www.davisRF.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
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