[TowerTalk] TowerTalk Digest, Vol 61, Issue 5

Wed Jan 2 19:05:43 EST 2008

Subject: Dual Driven Element Quad

Back in the 80's or early 90's, I chatted with W6PU extensively about his dual driven element quad.  I had up a 5 element quad for 20 & 15M, 7 elements on 17 - 12 - & 10M on a 45 foot boom at the time.  I did try his design but it was very difficult to build due to different electrical spacing on the various bands.  The proper delay on 20M would be a different electrical wavelength for each of the other bands.  Also, the matching was much more difficult with his arrangement.  After about a month of trial and error, I went back to the normal reflector- driven element - director arrangement.  I couldn't really tell of any improvement using his method.  I have used phased arrays on 40M & 80M most of my life but they have been two element systems utilizing a "T" Phasor in the shack for getting the optimum phase shift.  (ie. best front to back ratio).  If I would have used the "T" Phasor method rather than coaxial cable method for phasing, I may have seen what it could do by optimizing the proper phasing in the shack.

I will look into my antenna archive folders to see what info I might have from W6PU tomorrow.  If you are interested, I would be happy to copy the infor for you.  My Email address is w9jdj at hotmail.com and I would be more than happy to share any of my experiences with phased antennas.

73 DE W9JDJ

> From: towertalk-request at contesting.com> Subject: TowerTalk Digest, Vol 61, Issue 5> To: towertalk at contesting.com> Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 12:00:40 -0500> > Send TowerTalk mailing list submissions to> towertalk at contesting.com> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to> towertalk-request at contesting.com> > You can reach the person managing the list at> towertalk-owner at contesting.com> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific> than "Re: Contents of TowerTalk digest..."> > > Today's Topics:> > 1. Re: Anyone everyone ever experiment making a DUAL driven Quad> ? Cebit talkes about a Fat wire design. (Joe Giacobello)> 2. Re: Force 12's Falcon J-6 (Pat Barthelow)> 3. AB577, AB621 (Jim Jarvis)> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------> > Message: 1> Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2008 23:32:45 -0500> From: Joe Giacobello <k2xx at swva.net>> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Anyone everyone ever experiment making a DUAL> driven Quad ? Cebit talkes about a Fat wire design.> To: superberthaguy at verizon.net> Cc: 'KZ4USA' <videorov at verizon.net>, towertalk at contesting.com> Message-ID: <477B13ED.3000406 at swva.net>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed> > If my memory serves, it was W6PU. I worked him on 20M about two years > ago and we talked about his design. I think, but am not certain, that > he is still using the dual driven quad. I believe the article where he > discussed it in detail was from an issue of CQ in the 80s. He also said > that he got a lot of static regarding the underlying theoretical basis > for the design, but that it worked for him and he swore by the > performance. Frankly, the details are vague in my mind but I think the > design was based on the ZL Special.> > 73, Joe> K2XX> > Scott W3TX wrote:> > Hi Jack,> >> > I've seen a design like this before. It was developed by a W6. If my> > mind serves me correctly I believe that K3ZO built one and perfected it.> > The original article by the W6 had a few errors that ZO corrected> >> > 73, Scott W3TX> >> > _______________________________________________> >> >> >> > _______________________________________________> > TowerTalk mailing list> > TowerTalk at contesting.com> > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk> >> >> > > > > > ------------------------------> > Message: 2> Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 20:34:13 -0800> From: Pat Barthelow <aa6eg at hotmail.com>> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Force 12's Falcon J-6> To: Alain Michel <opalockamishabob at yahoo.com>,> <towertalk at contesting.com>> Message-ID: <BAY103-W41BF338E51A54B2A64F540FB520 at phx.gbl>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"> > > Hello Alain,> > Welcome to the hobby. Lots of ways to have fun. Whether you like a particular antenna or not, depends on what pursuits you take up in your quest for fun and satisfaction in the hobby. Your G5RV can play just fine forever, depending on whether you are looking for local or regional stateside contacts, or looking for long range, DX contacts. The two pursuits favor quite different antennas. > This reflector is a very good one, for answers to questions like yours> of how or whether to mount masts or towers or other antenna supports to> buildings. > (or any other antenna structure planning question.)> > 80 mph is serious wind, and to mount a 30 ft mast> (actually, I hope you mean tower, such as Rohn 25, as opposed to a> mast) in 80 mph is non trivial, and certainly far beyond a couple of> u-bolts through the eaves; even a purpose built wall bracket needs> substantial structural backing (engineering) before screwing it to a> side wall of a house. So, to help you, many wizards, are accessible> here on Tower talk. You just have to narrow down your goals, as you> begin your adventure in ham radio, to ask the right questions.> > > If budgets, or space limit your options, and you are after DX, height is what you want to invest in, if you have horizontal antennas. Try to get more than > 1/2 wavelength, preferably 1 wavelength, which for 20 meters is around 60 ft.> If you had and compared two rotatable dipoles, one at 30ft, and one at 60 ft, > and you were listening for European Stations from California around sunset, or in the morning, there would be a (probably) a profound difference in what you hear. Once up at 50-60 ft or so, even simple wire antennas work DX very well.> > In your case, being discreet, points possibly to a near-ground mounted vertical, which finds the long range contacts much more easily, and through a totally different mechanism than horizontal antennas.> > Welcome, and enjoy....> > All the Best, 73,> Pat Barthelow aa6eg at hotmail.com> http://www.jamesburgdish.org> Subscribe: http://bambi.net/jamesburg.html> Jamesburg Earth Station Moon Bounce Team> > > > > > Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 19:46:12 -0800> > From: opalockamishabob at yahoo.com> > To: towertalk at contesting.com> > Subject: [TowerTalk] Force 12's Falcon J-6> > > > Hello All,> > > > I'm new to ham radio. I'm very interested in hearing more about this rotatable dipole. Currently, I've got a 204' G5RV "flat top" up about 35' and am pleased with it's performance.> > > > I was wondering if anyone on this list [or knows anyone who has one] can give me some reviews on how well it performs; EHAM currently has zero. Current plans are being made to place it on a 20'-30' mast and attach same to the eave on the east side of the house. A small tv antenna rotator will take care of that chore.> > > > What is the best way to attach a 2" mast to the eave? We've lived here for over 10 years and the winds will gust to 80 MPH. How should I [or should I?] guy the top 10' of the mast?> > > > My wife and I have over three acres of property, but we are in a CC&R area. Most neighbors don't look up, but there are one or two who might blow the whistle if they even catch a glimpse of anything out of the ordinary. > > > > The east side of the house is about 200' from the street, but any antenna up higher than a 25' avocado tree is flirting with danger. I understand that the Falcon can be painted; this is great news and may be necessary, in my case.> > > > Any help, suggestions or recommendations will be most gratefully received. > > > > Many thanks for taking the time to respond!> > > > Alan...KI6HPO> > > > > > ---------------------------------> > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.> > _______________________________________________> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________> > TowerTalk mailing list> > TowerTalk at contesting.com> > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk> > > ------------------------------> > Message: 3> Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 10:34:02 -0500> From: Jim Jarvis <jimjarvis at optonline.net>> Subject: [TowerTalk] AB577, AB621> To: towertalk at contesting.com> Message-ID: <C3A1191A.160A%jimjarvis at optonline.net>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII> > > > TT:> > I have found a source of some spare parts for the military pushup masts> which some know as 'rocket launchers'. It is a small company in NJ, which> specializes in short run work for the military, and has been a supplier to> Ontario Surplus. > > Someone called me last week, looking for ab577 guy rings. I didn't take> note of his call. This could be a source.> > If folks think it's material, I'll post the company link. Else, msg me> directly for info.> > 73/n2ea> > > > > ------------------------------> > _______________________________________________> TowerTalk mailing list> TowerTalk at contesting.com> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk> > > End of TowerTalk Digest, Vol 61, Issue 5> ****************************************
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