[TowerTalk] Delta Loop compared to Dipole (actualexperience)(Richards)

Wed Jun 25 16:08:47 EDT 2008

Signing /P5 or /7O will make you louder also.

73s John AA5JG

---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: "Bob Maser" <bmaser at tampabay.rr.com>
Date:  Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:05:10 -0400

>Get the apex up as far as possible, feed it in one of the corners, put at 
>least 5KW into it and you'll be loud everywhere.
>
>Bob
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "Bill Axelrod" <bill at axelrods.org>
>To: "Richards" <jruing at ameritech.net>
>Cc: <towertalk at contesting.com>
>Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 3:12 PM
>Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Delta Loop compared to Dipole (actual 
>experience)(Richards)
>
>
>> And what a fun conundrum.  I am wrestling with some of the same questions 
>> as
>> I plan my retirement QTH and antenna farm.
>>
>> I suggest there a couple of questions you need to ask and answer before 
>> you
>> can make your decisions.  The primary question is "What do you want to do
>> with your new antenna?"  DX?  Local ragchewing?  Traffic nets? Domestic
>> contests?  DX Contests? Or do you want a compromise antenna that will do
>> well enough across the board.   Each choice of application will lead you
>> down a different path.  The best 80 meter antenna for ragchewing with 
>> other
>> USA hams is a very different antenna than the best antenna for 80 meter
>> DXing.  Is your dream antenna directional or omni-directional?  On and on.
>>
>> Then there is the question "How good is good enough"?  If your goal is
>> contesting is your goal to have a competitive station or just enough to 
>> have
>> some fun?  For 80 and 160 meters, have you considered the expense and
>> real-estate for receiving antennae?
>>
>> For me, my dream 160 and 80 meter antennas are a couple of 4-squares. 
>> But,
>> for my uses, that solution is beyond good enough.  I'd probably settle for 
>> a
>> pair of phased verticals to get me some gain and directivity at a price 
>> that
>> I'm comfortable with and in the real estate I expect to have.
>>
>> Not to make this hard, but once you answer the "what do I want to be able 
>> to
>> do" question, you will be in a good position to parse the wide range of
>> answers you got, make your decisions, and get your antennas up and on the
>> air.
>>
>> Good luck and 73...   Bill K3WA
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Richards" <jruing at ameritech.net>
>> To: "Bill Stacy" <wstacy at wildblue.net>
>> Cc: <towertalk at contesting.com>
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 2:52 PM
>> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Delta Loop compared to Dipole (actual experience)
>> (Richards)
>>
>>
>>> OK -- I will have to widen my research to include both the sky wire loop
>>> and the delta loop - and they are clearly different animals with 
>>> different
>>> feeding and grazing behaviors.
>>>
>>> Great fun.
>>>
>>> Thanks for the feed back.
>>>
>>> My Antenna Conundrum =  I have been researching low band antennas,
>>> including towers, verticals, and wire antenna designs.  My conundrum is
>>> there is no reliable source of information comparing the efficiency and
>>> effectiveness of the different antenna designs with each others.   The
>>> reviews in QST say whether or not the antenna is a good one, but rarely
>>> compare it with the performance of anything other than the proverbial
>>> hypothetical dipole in free space.    Looking on eHam.net is not
>>> particularly useful or reliable, as the typical ham typically recommends
>>> whatever he has used,  and has limited experience in using several
>>> different types of antennas (like one recommending boxers or briefs
>>> depending on what HE likes to wear), and says he "can work whomever he
>>> hears" - but when no one can tell whether he is hearing all who might be
>>> heard on a better antenna...
>>>
>>> Some people suggest an inverted L design, others recommend a horizontal
>>> sky loop, others recommend a vertical Delta loop, still others suggest a
>>> 40 ft aluminum mono pole like what DX Engineering and Force-12 sell,
>>> while others say I need a HyGain Hy-Tower,  and yet others suggest I put
>>> up a  50 or 60 foot tower, and hang long dipoles or loops off it,  or
>>> suggest I load up the tower, itself, as a low band antenna.    Some guys
>>> tell me to give up at my location.  Thus, I don't know how to evaluate
>>> and compare all these different ideas in order to select what might work
>>> best at my location.
>>>
>>> And, I understand it is difficult to select a single design for all
>>> locations, and understand all the variables that arise in different
>>> locations -- which, of course, makes it all the more difficult.   Also,
>>> there is a paucity of good antenna holding trees at my location, so I
>>> will must install some sort of mast or pole to sufficiently elevate any
>>> antenna off the ground.  Otherwise, I may be compelled to install  a 45
>>> foot aluminum pole, and tune it for the low bands - but, again, my
>>> original conundrum remains:   how do I compare its efficiency with some
>>> other design, perhaps a sky or delta loop, which might perform better,
>>> perhaps for much less expense.
>>>
>>> I am fortunate in that I saved up for this over the past 30 years while
>>> working.  So, money is not an object, other than I don't like spending
>>> more money that is necessary to accomplish the task, but I don't mind
>>> spending real money to get real results.    I just don't know how to
>>> select from all the alternatives.
>>>
>>> To compound my conundrum, most hams I talk to locally, and even many
>>> store salesmen, tend to suggest some cheap, inexpensive shortcut
>>> solution that will, purportedly,  save me a lot of money.   But, again,
>>> I am looking for good results, not to just save money, and although I
>>> don't want to over spend money on a commercial solution if a home brew,
>>> inexpensive method works better, I am not averse to spending a penny to
>>> get it right.    Yet, most advice is about how I can save a bunch of
>>> money - not on what might work best at my location.
>>>
>>> The more I research, the more overwhelmed I become.  I need a reliable
>>> methodology for selecting among all the alternatives.
>>>
>>> Consequently, I have no idea what I I can install this summer and use
>>> this winter after the snow falls.   But time is wasting away, and I
>>> worry I will not be find a solution in time to get it installed and
>>> operational.
>>>
>>> And I figure I cannot be the only guy facing this dilemma....
>>>
>>> What is a mother to do?
>>>
>>> Anyway, thanks for considering my plight.  Any ideas are welcome on or
>>> off list.   I do not wish to overstay my welcome.  I know this reflector
>>> is about towers, but I fear if I install a big tower, it will hold a a
>>> beam for 20 m and up, and I will still have the same conundrum as to
>>> what to do on the low bands.  What do guys with towers and small
>>> backyards do to play on the low bands?
>>>
>>> Thanks loads and happy trails to all.
>>>
>>> ===================   Richards - K8JHR  ====================
>>>
>>>
>>>  ///  Richards  ///
>>> ===================================================
>>>
>>> Bill Stacy wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The ARRL Antenna Book does NOT discuss delta loops.  There is, however, 
>>>> a
>>>> good discussion in ON4UN's Low Band DXing book.
>>>>
>>>> The delta is hard to beat for DX, especially when one considers its
>>>> relatively low cost.
>>>
>>> ===================================================
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>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
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