[TowerTalk] anti seize/never seize ?

Fri Jun 25 17:12:14 PDT 2010

I worked for a VW dealer in high school. They taught me how to use an impact
wrench and a torch to get those bolts out... and a lot of other fun things!

Many of these compounds are oil based and work by creating a very thin film
between the bolt and the nut.

Brake drums get very hot - especially with teenage drivers who load up all
their friends.

The compound is heat-vaporized and the nut is no longer tight,
yada-yada-yada, the wheel comes off. (I hope no one was injured!)

There are compounds made (by Loctite/Permatex and likely others) for very
high temperatures for this very reason.

You won't usually have that problem with antenna components unless you
really are running a lot of power!

Mickey, N4MB

On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 7:43 AM, Pete Smith <n4zr at contesting.com> wrote:

> It was a long time ago, but a cautionary tale.  My daughter had a 1972
> VW beetle.  Those things secured the wheels by way of bolts threaded
> into the brake drums, rather than studs, and it was notoriously hard to
> remove the bolts.  I got some anti-seize compound and put it on the
> threads, where it worked fine, but about 150 miles later one of the
> wheels came off as she was crossing a railroad track.  It turned out
> that all of the wheel bolts were loose.
>
> Moral of the story, for me, would be not to use such compounds in your
> tower installation unless it is somewhere that you can safety-wire the
> bolt, turnbuckle, etc. to prevent unintended loosening.,  The stuff just
> works too well.
>
> 73, Pete N4ZR
>
> The World Contest Station Database, updated daily at
> www.conteststations.com
> The Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at
> reversebeacon.blogspot.com,
> spots at telnet.reversebeacon.net, port 7000
>
>
> On 6/24/2010 11:51 AM, Mickey Baker wrote:
> > This stuff works well. I've never had an issue on a part liberally coated
> > with this:
> >
> http://www.permatex.com/products/Automotive/lubricants/specialty_lubricants/Permatex_Anti-Seize_Lubricant_a.htm
> >
> > As you may know, aluminum to stainless connections are galvanic and will
> > deteriorate. Ultra Tef-Gel is a great product that provides galvanic
> > isolation of parts, including the threads of self-tapping or machine
> screws
> > with dissimilar metals.
> >
> > Mickey N4MB
> >
> > On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 9:43 AM, Jim Thomson<jim.thom at telus.net>  wrote:
> >
> >
> >> This stuff comes in 8 oz containers [and also larger]   The stuff
> available
> >> from my local
> >> fastener place is made by locktite.   It's used on SS threads so they
> don't
> >> gall, etc.
> >>
> >> It comes in two grades.. standard 'silver'.. and 'marine grade'.   I see
> DX
> >> eng also sells
> >> this goop... and also in both grades.   The only diff i can see between
> the
> >> 2 x types
> >> [besides price]  is the marine grade stuff is rated for a higher temp.
> >> [1800 deg f  vs 1600 deg f]
> >>
> >> The guy tells me the marine grade stuff has a higher temp rating cuz
> it's
> >> used on engine parts
> >> in marine applications. [ I can't see any engine getting this hot, even
> a
> >> turbo].
> >>   No mention of the marine grade being better suited for wet
> environments.
> >>
> >> I'm going to use it for outside ant stuff... like dx eng SS  U clamps,
> etc,
> >> etc.   So other than being
> >> in the rain, the temp is not an issue.
> >>
> >> I bought the regular grade.  Did I buy the wrong stuff ?    On a similar
> >> note, today, 3 of us took down
> >> my trylon tower [to be replaced with a crank up] ... and I had replaced
> 4
> >> of the leg splice bolts  with
> >> longer  1/2" diam SS bolts... and had not used any anti seize on em.   I
> >> required longer bolts since I had
> >> mounted small al plates on one tower face.. to side mount a 15m yagi..
> >> fixed due east.
> >>
> >> Of course one of the 4 x SS bolts gauled.. and flat out would not come
> out!
> >>   Fortunately, we had mounted the
> >> nuts on the outside of the tower legs.   We had to use the sawzall  to
> come
> >> the damn thing off !
> >>
> >> I have made up 8 x new  boom to mast plates  from 3/8" thick al
> plate....
> >> F-12 style.. with one vert plate
> >> on the mast.. and one horz plate on the boom.[ 4 x ants in total]   5  x
> >> 1/2" diam  SS bolts  mate the 2 x plates together.
> >> I can just envision  just 1 of 20 x SS bolts  gauling.. and a gong show
> >> ensuing, trying to cut em off.
> >> How reliable is this anti-seize /never seize stuff.. esp after several
> yrs
> >> ??    I think if I was to ever remove any of the
> >> SS nuts, i would slop some more anti seize goop  on the exposed, excess
> >> threads.. just prior to removal.
> >>
> >> I only had gauling problems just once b4.. and that was when using SS
> >> nylock  nuts  on  SS bolts.  In that case, the
> >> SS nylock was being tightened for the 1st time.. and the nut seized up..
> >> with a 1/8"  left to go !   Would not loosen
> >> and would not tighten.   I cranked on it with a breaker bar.. and
> sheared
> >> off the SS bolt.   [these were 3/8" bolts]
> >> I had that happen 3 x times.... and the gauling problem was only when SS
> >> nylocks were being used..... until
> >> today's incident [ no nylocks, just SS flatwashers and SS split ring
> lock
> >> washers]
> >>
> >> Of course, I had not put any goop on the 3/8" bolts  nor SS nylocks
> either.
> >>   I just discovered the goop a few months back.
> >>
> >> Funny thing is.. I use SS  machine screws all the time on HB amps... [
> like
> >>   10-32  1/4-20, 8-32  6-32 etc]  and have never had a
> >> gauling problem with em in the last 20 yrs.    The gauling problem only
> >> seems to happen with 3/8" and bigger.. and esp when
> >> SS nylocks are employed.  BTW... just bought a ton  of dx eng SS saddle
> >> clamps  [ SS u bolts with solid AL saddles]  to use on the
> >> el to plate connections for each el on the yagis.   All my F-12 ones had
> >> rusted. In some cases, it was just the nuts.. some times jut one thread
> >> on one side of a U bolt..some times both.  I was getting fed up with
> rusted
> >> hardware... and have not found a source for galvanized
> >> u bolts..yet.
> >>
> >> I hope this anti seize/never seize goop actually works.  Trying to cut
> >> rusted /gauled hardware..up a tower is no fun.
> >>
> >> Later..... Jim   VE7RF
> >> _______________________________________________
> >>
> >>
> >>
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> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
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-- 
Mickey Baker
Fort Lauderdale, FL
“Tell me, and I will listen. Show me, and I will understand. Involve me, and
I will learn.” Teton Lakota, American Indian Saying.