[TowerTalk] Divining rods

Wed Sep 1 06:47:18 PDT 2010

Statistics is also calculated guess work. You can make statistics give any 
answer you want.

Charles F. Frost
Frosty K5LBU
frosty1 at pdq.net

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Don Tucker" <w7wll at arrl.net>
To: <towertalk at contesting.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2010 11:42 PM
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Divining rods

> Ahhh, statistics. I remember the First Rule of Applied Mathematics in
> college: Ninety-eight percent of all statistics are made up!!
>
> Don W7WLL
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Robert Harmon" <k6uj at pacbell.net>
> To: <towertalk at contesting.com>
> Cc: "Kevin Normoyle" <knormoyle at surfnetusa.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2010 9:23 PM
> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Divining rods
>
>
> You are correct Kevin, nothing has been presented to establish that 
> divining
> has better results than random hole drilling.
> We have provided information based on our personal experiences and
> discussions with others.  That is all you should expect
> from a Ham Radio forum, hi,hi.  You are not going to receive a detailed
> engineering analysis here.
> Anecdotal stuff as you say is what we do!
>
> Your implication that these discussions indicate that we do not understand
> statistics is also flawed.
> Lot of users here, many are engineering professionals like myself and yes
> understand statistics.
>
> Lighten up and enjoy the QSO !
>
> 73,
> Bob
> K6UJ
>
>
>
> On Aug 31, 2010, at 7:16 PM, Kevin Normoyle wrote:
>
>>
>> There has been nothing presented that says the results of divining are
>> better than the results of random hole drilling
>> for a given location. If 80% of random holes drilled hit water, than
>> anyone can appear good. I like these stories about
>> how the dowser was the last try after previous trys... Of course you
>> always get water in your last try, because you stop
>> after that.
>>
>> If this anecdotal stuff means stuff to people, well they just don't
>> understand statistics and distributions or how to
>> verify such a claim.
>>
>> Now if I said I could divine band openings with 18" rods held in my
>> hands....would you argue with that?
>> I've seen it done.
>>
>> I also can turn my rotor to improve my received signal strength, without
>> knowing where the signal is coming from.
>>
>> -kevin
>> ad6z
>>
>> On 8/31/2010 6:37 PM, Robert Harmon wrote:
>>> It works for me also.  I was a very big skeptic until after two
>>> unsuccessful attempts to reach
>>> water at a reasonable depth on my property a ham friend that has
>>> experience in dowsing came over and located a location to drill.
>>> He is a welder (and dowser on the side) uses two brazing rods 2 feet 
>>> long
>>> with a 6" hook in one end.   I was amused at his walking back
>>> and forth from different directions and the rods would cross over this
>>> area.   To make a long story short, we hit water at  47 feet and
>>> our well maintains a steady output year round.  I became fascinated with
>>> Hugh's dowsing and gladly tagged along to two later
>>> dowsing sessions he invited me to.  He successfully located the water
>>> well locations in both of these cases also.  I live in Napa Valley, CA
>>> and we have an abundance of vineyards in our area.  The wineries rely on
>>> a good water supply for irrigating their vineyards.  In discussions
>>> with winery owners I learned that dowsing has become a normal method to
>>> use in locating well locations for our wine country.
>>>
>>>
>>> Bob
>>> K6UJ
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Aug 31, 2010, at 5:24 PM, Mike Fatchett W0MU wrote:
>>>
>>>> I know a guy here in Montana that drilled a well, went over 500 ft got
>>>> next to no water.  After tiring of hauling water for a few years he
>>>> calls out an Old Dowser, who comes highly recommended, and the dowser
>>>> finds a spot about 20 ft away from the well.  They drilled and hit 
>>>> water
>>>> at 87ft 10 gallons per minute.
>>>>
>>>> Just luck?  I don't think so.
>>>>
>>>> W0MU
>>>>
>>>> On 8/31/2010 2:44 PM, knormoyle at surfnetusa.com wrote:
>>>>> In all of these posts, there's an implicit claim that the location of
>>>>> the desired object is fully random.
>>>>> It's not, right?
>>>>>
>>>>> For instance, in the pvc case below, the installer has probably seen
>>>>> the full range of possible locations from similar houses in
>>>>> the area? I'm assuming it's the main water line, and there are no
>>>>> visible outside shutoff valves.
>>>>>
>>>>> Obviously if there are visible shutoff valves either in the lawn or on
>>>>> the house, it's almost trivial.
>>>>>
>>>>> Before describing the amazing solution, doesn't there need to be a
>>>>> better explanation of why the target was fully random?
>>>>>
>>>>> And on the cable location problem: I don't get it. All our cables are
>>>>> copper. How come people can't inject a signal of some sort
>>>>> and detect it themselves? I mean, isn't this trivial compared to other
>>>>> stuff we discuss? Were people talking about some kind of
>>>>> cable that they couldn't inject a signal on? (can't you inject on the
>>>>> coax ground braid?)
>>>>>
>>>>> I would think it would be easy to detect something of sufficient
>>>>> strength, down to 18" or so (that's what chaser wires do?)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------- Original Message -------
>>>>> From    : Mickey Baker[mailto:fishflorida at gmail.com]
>>>>> Sent    : 8/31/2010 12:54:28 PM
>>>>> To      : k4bg at planters.net
>>>>> Cc      : TowerTalk at contesting.com
>>>>> Subject : RE: Re: [TowerTalk] Divining rods
>>>>>
>>>>>  No matter the claims of many logical thinking, well meaning people on
>>>>> this list, there has evidently never ever been any scientific evidence
>>>>> that this works. Sorry, I suspect the physicists here aren't going to
>>>>> be much help. Known science doesn't explain everything.
>>>>>
>>>>> For more:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dowsing
>>>>>
>>>>> 73,
>>>>> Mickey
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 3:30 PM, Bob Good<k4bg at planters.net>   wrote:
>>>>>> Gents,  I too am a bit of a skeptic BUT last month in my front yard
>>>>>> the contractor burying Fiber showed up to mark existing
>>>>> lines.  I was totally taken back when he breaks out two steel rods to
>>>>> locate my pvc water line.  He chose this method over
>>>>> anything technical.  The rods swung and he pointed to the spot on the
>>>>> ground and the spade hit its mark about 10 inches down, the
>>>>> water line.  Had I not witnessed this I would have put it in the
>>>>> category of the moon phases determining how much dirt it takes to
>>>>> refill a hole.  Okay, it's been around for ages.  Now why doesn't
>>>>> someone tell us how it works?  Is this another area 51?  Physics
>>>>> profs, Please step up to the plate.  It's your turn, yes?  Bob K4BG
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> TowerTalk mailing list
>>>>>> TowerTalk at contesting.com
>>>>>>  http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> TowerTalk mailing list
>>>> TowerTalk at contesting.com
>>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TowerTalk mailing list
>>> TowerTalk at contesting.com
>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TowerTalk mailing list
>> TowerTalk at contesting.com
>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TowerTalk mailing list
> TowerTalk at contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TowerTalk mailing list
> TowerTalk at contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3105 - Release Date: 08/31/10 
13:34:00