[TowerTalk] tower lighting

Sat Aug 27 12:13:05 PDT 2011

In the USA a tower must be 200 feet or taller to require lighting or meet guidlines for painting or the types of lighting.
I wonder what the regs are in other countries?

Cal Zethmayr
W4GMH

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Today's Topics:

   1. tower lights (Spencer)
   2. Re: tower lights (K8RI on TT)
   3. Re: Terrain data for HFTA (David J. Sourdis - HK1A)
   4. FS: Glen Martin M-1850A 50' aluminum tower with Hazer
      (Paul Playford)
   5. Re: Terrain data for HFTA (TexasRF at aol.com)
   6. Re: tower lights (Williams, Richard   (OAG/CPG))
   7. rotating towers, et al (don daso)
   8. Re: Rotating tower (TexasRF at aol.com)
   9. Rotors for sale (K1TTT)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 14:08:10 -0600
From: Spencer <k5gak at powerc.net>
Subject: [TowerTalk] tower lights
To: towertalk at contesting.com
Message-ID: <4E4EC2AA.4020504 at powerc.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

there are dark sky rules here in New Mexico, and many other places. Be 
aware!

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 16:47:41 -0400
From: K8RI on TT <k8ri-on-towertalk at tm.net>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] tower lights
To: towertalk at contesting.com
Message-ID: <4E4ECBED.7090900 at tm.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

On 8/19/2011 4:08 PM, Spencer wrote:
> there are dark sky rules here in New Mexico, and many other places. Be
> aware!

And thank goodness for them, but the ham tower that requires lights is 
rare. I wish they'd go to shields/reflectors that prevent the light from 
going up around here, but they don't even have to be shielded.  When we 
moved here 27 years ago it was quite dark. Then it seems every one was 
installing those mercury vapor lights. Of course the places with nothing 
to steal put them on all sides of a tall, white house.  People don't 
realize that shielded, directed lights are far more effective than very 
bright, unshielded lamps.

I've thought of running Christmas lights up the guys, but as I'm on the 
centerline for the local GPS-06 I think I'll pass on that one.<:-))

73

Roger (K8RI)

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------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 22:47:54 -0500
From: "David J. Sourdis - HK1A" <hk1kxa at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Terrain data for HFTA
To: "towertalk at contesting.com" <towertalk at contesting.com>
Message-ID: <COL115-W143B46547717CB2E6197088F2D0 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

I would not trust Google-Earth elevation data.To add an example like Bimini, Bahamas: Check Malpelo Island, HK0TU, 400 km away from the colombian Pacific coast (4.0 N, 81.6 W) According to Google earth the island is submerged under the water surface a least 340 ft. In reality, this island has elevations over 1000 ft ASL.

David  
HK1A
EC5KXA
AE5XQ

> From: n6bv at arrl.net
> To: towertalk at contesting.com
> Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2011 11:29:16 -0700
> Subject: [TowerTalk] Terrain data for HFTA
> 
> Charlie:
> 
> You said recently:
> 
> > Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 20:12:45 -0500
> > From: Charlie Carroll <k1xx at cfl.rr.com>
> > Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] grabbing terrain data for HFTA
> > To: Grant Saviers <grants2 at pacbell.net>, towertalk at contesting.com
> > Message-ID: <wg1l6uo0lqvcmp2rougptbc7.1313543269277 at email.android.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> >
> > Door's abt to close, so have to be brief.  Of late, I have taken
> > to semi-automatically extracting terrain data from Google Earth.
> > I dump this info into an Excel spreadsheet for the number
> > crunching.  Pretty painless to do something like ten foot
> > intervals out to 10k feet.
> >
> > 73 charlie, k1xx
> 
> N6BV: I'm not sure where Google Earth gets their terrain data, but I am
> suspicious that it is derived at least partially from the SRTM (Shuttle
> Radar Topography Mission) data set. I get nervous when I look at the terrain
> data for islands surrounded by seawater -- which should, by definition, be
> at or at least very close to sea level. It is often shown as being
> considerably different from sealevel.
> 
> N6BV: For example, in Google Earth zoom into Baileytown, Bimini, Bahamas.
> Just to the west of Baileytown the altitude goes considerably negative.
> Either this is a depthsounder reading (which I doubt) or else something is
> goofy!
> 
> N6BV: I'm curious how you are extracting that data from Google Earth
> semi-automatically, even if I'm nervous about the data itself.
> 
> >
> > Grant Saviers <grants2 at pacbell.net> wrote:
> >
> > >Can some one share a pointer for up to date instructions for grabbing
> > >the terrain data from the web for HFTA?  Every instruction I've found is
> > >hopelessly out of sync with the current terrain data web site.
> > >
> >

------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 21:31:15 -0700
From: "Paul Playford" <paul at w8aef.com>
Subject: [TowerTalk] FS: Glen Martin M-1850A 50' aluminum tower with
	Hazer
To: <towertalk at contesting.com>
Message-ID: <0853678FAFB74C67BE028C30C2846CC1 at Desktop>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"

Rated at 16 sq. ft. in an 87 mph wind.

Requires 3 ea 1" dia x 36" threaded rods with nuts and guy anchors.

Asking $750, on the ground in Phoenix, AZ. Delivery negotiable.

de Paul, W8AEF

ZF2JI/ZF2TA  FO8DX/FO8PLA  8Q7AA  XZ0A  VU7RG/VU3PYM  TX5C

------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2011 07:53:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: TexasRF at aol.com
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Terrain data for HFTA
To: hk1kxa at hotmail.com, towertalk at contesting.com
Message-ID: <41922.2703ce7a.3b80fa20 at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Sounds like someone's earth bulge corrections are amiss! This is the name  
used due to the earth shape being slightly ellipsoid instead of a perfect  
sphere.  The earth diameter is slightly greater at the equator than higher  
or lower latitudes.

If this is the case, then it seems that the elevation of all  locations 
near the HK area would be in error.

We have to account for earth bulge in our EME az/el  calculations so it is 
a real effect; not just imagined.

73,
Gerald K5GW

In a message dated 8/19/2011 10:48:12 P.M. Central Standard Time,  
hk1kxa at hotmail.com writes:

I  would not trust Google-Earth elevation data.To add an example like 
Bimini,  Bahamas: Check Malpelo Island, HK0TU, 400 km away from the colombian 
Pacific  coast (4.0 N, 81.6 W) According to Google earth the island is 
submerged under  the water surface a least 340 ft. In reality, this island has 
elevations over  1000 ft ASL.

David  
HK1A
EC5KXA
AE5XQ

>  From: n6bv at arrl.net
> To: towertalk at contesting.com
> Date: Wed, 17  Aug 2011 11:29:16 -0700
> Subject: [TowerTalk] Terrain data for  HFTA
> 
> Charlie:
> 
> You said recently:
>  
> > Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 20:12:45 -0500
> > From: Charlie  Carroll <k1xx at cfl.rr.com>
> > Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] grabbing  terrain data for HFTA
> > To: Grant Saviers  <grants2 at pacbell.net>, towertalk at contesting.com
> > Message-ID:  <wg1l6uo0lqvcmp2rougptbc7.1313543269277 at email.android.com>
> >  Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> >
> > Door's abt  to close, so have to be brief.  Of late, I have taken
> > to  semi-automatically extracting terrain data from Google Earth.
> > I  dump this info into an Excel spreadsheet for the number
> >  crunching.  Pretty painless to do something like ten foot
> >  intervals out to 10k feet.
> >
> > 73 charlie, k1xx
>  
> N6BV: I'm not sure where Google Earth gets their terrain data, but I  am
> suspicious that it is derived at least partially from the SRTM  (Shuttle
> Radar Topography Mission) data set. I get nervous when I look  at the 
terrain
> data for islands surrounded by seawater -- which  should, by definition, 
be
> at or at least very close to sea level. It  is often shown as being
> considerably different from sealevel.
>  
> N6BV: For example, in Google Earth zoom into Baileytown, Bimini,  Bahamas.
> Just to the west of Baileytown the altitude goes considerably  negative.
> Either this is a depthsounder reading (which I doubt) or  else something 
is
> goofy!
> 
> N6BV: I'm curious how you  are extracting that data from Google Earth
> semi-automatically, even if  I'm nervous about the data itself.
> 
> >
> > Grant  Saviers <grants2 at pacbell.net> wrote:
> >
> > >Can  some one share a pointer for up to date instructions for grabbing
> >  >the terrain data from the web for HFTA?  Every instruction I've found 
 is
> > >hopelessly out of sync with the current terrain data web  site.
> > >
> >

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------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 18:56:07 -0300
From: "Williams, Richard   (OAG/CPG)" <Richard.Williams at gnb.ca>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] tower lights
To: Spencer <k5gak at powerc.net>, "towertalk at contesting.com"
	<towertalk at contesting.com>
Message-ID: <33D89F00C2617444912B0ACB8729C9F2706729AE8D at GNBEX1.gnb.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I called the Canadian equivalent of the FAA once about whether I would need lights on an 88 foot Trylon self-supporting tower. The guy answered that if a plane was flying at 88 feet, whether my tower had a light or not wouldn't make much difference.

Rick VE9HF
________________________________________
From: towertalk-bounces at contesting.com [towertalk-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Spencer [k5gak at powerc.net]
Sent: Friday, August 19, 2011 5:08 PM
To: towertalk at contesting.com
Subject: [TowerTalk] tower lights

there are dark sky rules here in New Mexico, and many other places. Be
aware!
_______________________________________________

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------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 20:29:25 -0400
From: don daso <k4za at juno.com>
Subject: [TowerTalk] rotating towers, et al
To: towertalk at contesting.com
Message-ID: <20110819.172957.950.930663 at mailpop06.vgs.untd.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii  

There's obviously some confusion rampant here...W9GE's tower installation
using K0XG hardware rotates, I believe K1TTT's tower uses the K0XG
orbital ring rotator, which is
a simple "apples & oranges" comparison.

The GH controller can certainly ramp up rotators, such as Bob's Orion.
The XG orbital ring is simply turned on/off by the pwr supply relays, &
doesn't ramp up/down.
But, it would be helpful if it did, in fact, especially on the bigger
antennas, like OWAs...

73 Don K4ZA

Tower Works
Charlotte  NC

Antenna Towers for Radio Amateurs 
published by ARRL

www.k4za.com
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------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2011 08:13:41 -0400 (EDT)
From: TexasRF at aol.com
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Rotating tower
To: k6xt at arrl.net, n4zr at contesting.com
Cc: towertalk at contesting.com
Message-ID: <41e03.7f8d1193.3b80fef5 at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Art, re: 204BA: wonder if they can be reconfigured as a 4-el OWA design?  
Love that bandwidth!

On the 3-el 40 tip size: keep in mind that as the taper continues, the  
element length has to increased due to the taper effect. The yagi design  
programs will show this.

73,
Gerald K5GW

In a message dated 8/19/2011 8:47:48 A.M. Central Standard Time,  
k6xt at arrl.net writes:

Pete
Someone else replied about K4JA's loss saying it was a  hurricane. Our 
winds don't get up there or haven't yet.

An elephant  gun to Asia would be good. I'm trying to avoid a mast and 
associated  hardware in the tower. Another piece of R45 above the top 
guys, at 75 lb,  seems as light as anything else I could put up there.

The small 20  above the 40 gives me the opportunity for 3 phased 20's. 
Someone suggested  a 204BA, I have some of those elements but would 
probably make it a  3L.

My 3L40 is an old DXE. From the factory it came with (what I  consider) 
huge tips. Starts out at 2 inch, ends in telescoping tubing at  0.875in. 
To me that is gross overkill at the tips. I replaced the outer 16  feet 
with 204BA elements to cut the weight but more important the wind  load. 
My neighbor K0YW has a duplicate of this ant. His element sag is  
something like 3X mine. This ant is up on a hilltop 70 ft crankup  
cranked down to about 50 ft for the past year with no probs so  far.

Gotta wonder if K4JA's pair of 40's started twisting in opposite  
directions. AB105 is stout stuff, I had some up 30 yrs ago in San Diego  
area.

73 Art K6XT
Allison, Colorado
"One of the harshest  lessons learned from recent disasters, especially 
Katrina, is that you are  your own first responder."
...LtGen Russel Honore USA
GMCC CWOps  728
NAQCC 1342 SDDXC
ARRL TA

On 2011-08-19 05:54,  Pete Smith wrote:
> You're right to be concerned about twisting  loads.  K4JA, who is a 
> pretty good back-yard engineer, lost a  200-foot AB-105 rotating tower 
> with 2 40m OWAs on it in a windstorm,  and from the debris it was 
> obvious that it had twisted to  failure.  Afterward, he told me he sure 
> wished he had a shear  pin or other provision for breaking the 
> connection between his  rotator and the tower, because if it had been 
> free to move it might  well have survived.
>
> By the way, if you plan to phase the two  3L 20m yagis, wouldn't you be 
> better off putting the top one at 100  feet?  Or are you looking for an 
> elephant gun to  Asia?
>
> 73, Pete N4ZR
>
> The World Contest Station  Database, updated daily at 
> www.conteststations.com
> The  Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at 
>  reversebeacon.blogspot.com,
> spots at telnet.reversebeacon.net, port  7000
>
>
>
> On 8/18/2011 8:51 PM, Art K6XT  wrote:
>> I've started construction of a 150 ft Rohn 45 rotating  tower using K0XG
>> base and four rings, top ring at 140 ft. Just  above the top ring will be
>> a 3L40 and possibly a small 20 above  that, like 3L.
>>
>> I'd be very interested in any  experience or anecdotes on projects like
>> this using R45. That  tower was selected because I already own it. My
>> area has the  potential for icing. The ice I've seen is very light,
>> nothing like  back east or in EU. But I suppose its possible. Not too
>> windy, the  strongest seem to peak out around 70mph and that's  rare.
>>
>> One issue I see is, there are no torque bars on  the tower. All its
>> torque is transmitted to the rotator on the  ground. K0XG's rings do have
>> torque bars but that doesn't help the  tower.
>>
>> The general plot is to add antennas down the  tower above the guy rings.
>> Second 3L20, a shorty 40 Hygain, 10 and  15M.
>>
>> Replies to k6xt at arrl dot net are FB, or  here.
>>
>
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------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2011 14:16:34 +0000
From: "K1TTT" <K1TTT at ARRL.NET>
Subject: [TowerTalk] Rotors for sale
To: "reflector -tower" <towertalk at contesting.com>
Cc: Nobarc <nobarc at nobarc.org>
Message-ID: <EF30E8164B614FC7BE6F5B6352DC6E1E at k1tttibm>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

A relatively recent production TIC 1122 that has some mechanical damage.
There are some teeth broken in the big ring, and welds broken on the boom
cradle outriggers (http://www.k1ttt.net/images/2011_k0xg_ring_11_Small.jpg
picture while still on the tower).  More pictures can be provided if
interested.  Comes with 2 motors, boom truss assembly, and a TIC controller.

A 25 year old TIC 1032 ring.  Rusty but otherwise was working except for a
bent shaft on the drive motor.  Comes with 1 motor, boom truss assembly, and
a TIC controller.  (http://www.k1ttt.net/images/32in_tic_ring_1_Small.jpg)

$100ea, pickup in Peru, Ma.
I would hate to try to ship these, boxing and shipping would probably cost
more than I want for them... But if you were really sure you wanted them I
might.

Will take them to the NoBARC(http://www.nobarc.org/) flea market next week
only if someone is really interested. 

David Robbins K1TTT
e-mail: mailto:k1ttt at arrl.net
web: http://wiki.k1ttt.net
AR-Cluster node: 145.69MHz or telnet://k1ttt.net

------------------------------

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