[TowerTalk] Fw: tower lighting

[Sam Andrews]

On the air today with new antennas Don?

73, Sam  AE5L
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <n8de at thepoint.net>
To: "Cal Zethmayr" <w4gmh at cox.net>
Cc: <towertalk at contesting.com>; <towertalk-request at contesting.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2011 2:26 PM
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] tower lighting


> To be precise. ... in USA, any tower OVER 199 feet tall needs lighting.
>
> SOME towers lower in height ALSO need lighting, depending on distance
> from airport and 'glideslope'.
>
> 73
> Don
> N8DE
>
>
> Quoting Cal Zethmayr <w4gmh at cox.net>:
>
>> In the USA a tower must be 200 feet or taller to require lighting or
>>  meet guidlines for painting or the types of lighting.
>> I wonder what the regs are in other countries?
>>
>> Cal Zethmayr
>> W4GMH
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---- towertalk-request at contesting.com wrote:
>>
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>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>>    1. tower lights (Spencer)
>>    2. Re: tower lights (K8RI on TT)
>>    3. Re: Terrain data for HFTA (David J. Sourdis - HK1A)
>>    4. FS: Glen Martin M-1850A 50' aluminum tower with Hazer
>>       (Paul Playford)
>>    5. Re: Terrain data for HFTA (TexasRF at aol.com)
>>    6. Re: tower lights (Williams, Richard   (OAG/CPG))
>>    7. rotating towers, et al (don daso)
>>    8. Re: Rotating tower (TexasRF at aol.com)
>>    9. Rotors for sale (K1TTT)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 14:08:10 -0600
>> From: Spencer <k5gak at powerc.net>
>> Subject: [TowerTalk] tower lights
>> To: towertalk at contesting.com
>> Message-ID: <4E4EC2AA.4020504 at powerc.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>>
>> there are dark sky rules here in New Mexico, and many other places. Be
>> aware!
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 16:47:41 -0400
>> From: K8RI on TT <k8ri-on-towertalk at tm.net>
>> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] tower lights
>> To: towertalk at contesting.com
>> Message-ID: <4E4ECBED.7090900 at tm.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>>
>> On 8/19/2011 4:08 PM, Spencer wrote:
>>> there are dark sky rules here in New Mexico, and many other places. Be
>>> aware!
>>
>> And thank goodness for them, but the ham tower that requires lights is
>> rare. I wish they'd go to shields/reflectors that prevent the light from
>> going up around here, but they don't even have to be shielded.  When we
>> moved here 27 years ago it was quite dark. Then it seems every one was
>> installing those mercury vapor lights. Of course the places with nothing
>> to steal put them on all sides of a tall, white house.  People don't
>> realize that shielded, directed lights are far more effective than very
>> bright, unshielded lamps.
>>
>> I've thought of running Christmas lights up the guys, but as I'm on the
>> centerline for the local GPS-06 I think I'll pass on that one.<:-))
>>
>> 73
>>
>> Roger (K8RI)
>>
>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TowerTalk mailing list
>>> TowerTalk at contesting.com
>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 22:47:54 -0500
>> From: "David J. Sourdis - HK1A" <hk1kxa at hotmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Terrain data for HFTA
>> To: "towertalk at contesting.com" <towertalk at contesting.com>
>> Message-ID: <COL115-W143B46547717CB2E6197088F2D0 at phx.gbl>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>>
>> I would not trust Google-Earth elevation data.To add an example like
>>  Bimini, Bahamas: Check Malpelo Island, HK0TU, 400 km away from the
>> colombian Pacific coast (4.0 N, 81.6 W) According to Google earth
>> the island is submerged under the water surface a least 340 ft. In
>> reality, this island has elevations over 1000 ft ASL.
>>
>> David
>> HK1A
>> EC5KXA
>> AE5XQ
>>
>>
>>> From: n6bv at arrl.net
>>> To: towertalk at contesting.com
>>> Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2011 11:29:16 -0700
>>> Subject: [TowerTalk] Terrain data for HFTA
>>>
>>> Charlie:
>>>
>>> You said recently:
>>>
>>> > Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 20:12:45 -0500
>>> > From: Charlie Carroll <k1xx at cfl.rr.com>
>>> > Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] grabbing terrain data for HFTA
>>> > To: Grant Saviers <grants2 at pacbell.net>, towertalk at contesting.com
>>> > Message-ID: <wg1l6uo0lqvcmp2rougptbc7.1313543269277 at email.android.com>
>>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>>> >
>>> > Door's abt to close, so have to be brief.  Of late, I have taken
>>> > to semi-automatically extracting terrain data from Google Earth.
>>> > I dump this info into an Excel spreadsheet for the number
>>> > crunching.  Pretty painless to do something like ten foot
>>> > intervals out to 10k feet.
>>> >
>>> > 73 charlie, k1xx
>>>
>>> N6BV: I'm not sure where Google Earth gets their terrain data, but I am
>>> suspicious that it is derived at least partially from the SRTM (Shuttle
>>> Radar Topography Mission) data set. I get nervous when I look at the 
>>> terrain
>>> data for islands surrounded by seawater -- which should, by definition, 
>>> be
>>> at or at least very close to sea level. It is often shown as being
>>> considerably different from sealevel.
>>>
>>> N6BV: For example, in Google Earth zoom into Baileytown, Bimini, 
>>> Bahamas.
>>> Just to the west of Baileytown the altitude goes considerably negative.
>>> Either this is a depthsounder reading (which I doubt) or else something 
>>> is
>>> goofy!
>>>
>>> N6BV: I'm curious how you are extracting that data from Google Earth
>>> semi-automatically, even if I'm nervous about the data itself.
>>>
>>> >
>>> > Grant Saviers <grants2 at pacbell.net> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > >Can some one share a pointer for up to date instructions for grabbing
>>> > >the terrain data from the web for HFTA?  Every instruction I've found 
>>> > >is
>>> > >hopelessly out of sync with the current terrain data web site.
>>> > >
>>> >
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 21:31:15 -0700
>> From: "Paul Playford" <paul at w8aef.com>
>> Subject: [TowerTalk] FS: Glen Martin M-1850A 50' aluminum tower with
>> Hazer
>> To: <towertalk at contesting.com>
>> Message-ID: <0853678FAFB74C67BE028C30C2846CC1 at Desktop>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> Rated at 16 sq. ft. in an 87 mph wind.
>>
>> Requires 3 ea 1" dia x 36" threaded rods with nuts and guy anchors.
>>
>> Asking $750, on the ground in Phoenix, AZ. Delivery negotiable.
>>
>>
>> de Paul, W8AEF
>>
>> ZF2JI/ZF2TA  FO8DX/FO8PLA  8Q7AA  XZ0A  VU7RG/VU3PYM  TX5C
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 5
>> Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2011 07:53:04 -0400 (EDT)
>> From: TexasRF at aol.com
>> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Terrain data for HFTA
>> To: hk1kxa at hotmail.com, towertalk at contesting.com
>> Message-ID: <41922.2703ce7a.3b80fa20 at aol.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>>
>> Sounds like someone's earth bulge corrections are amiss! This is the name
>> used due to the earth shape being slightly ellipsoid instead of a perfect
>> sphere.  The earth diameter is slightly greater at the equator than 
>> higher
>> or lower latitudes.
>>
>>
>> If this is the case, then it seems that the elevation of all  locations
>> near the HK area would be in error.
>>
>> We have to account for earth bulge in our EME az/el  calculations so it 
>> is
>> a real effect; not just imagined.
>>
>>
>> 73,
>> Gerald K5GW
>>
>>
>>
>> In a message dated 8/19/2011 10:48:12 P.M. Central Standard Time,
>> hk1kxa at hotmail.com writes:
>>
>>
>> I  would not trust Google-Earth elevation data.To add an example like
>> Bimini,  Bahamas: Check Malpelo Island, HK0TU, 400 km away from the 
>> colombian
>> Pacific  coast (4.0 N, 81.6 W) According to Google earth the island is
>> submerged under  the water surface a least 340 ft. In reality, this
>> island has
>> elevations over  1000 ft ASL.
>>
>> David
>> HK1A
>> EC5KXA
>> AE5XQ
>>
>>
>>>  From: n6bv at arrl.net
>>> To: towertalk at contesting.com
>>> Date: Wed, 17  Aug 2011 11:29:16 -0700
>>> Subject: [TowerTalk] Terrain data for  HFTA
>>>
>>> Charlie:
>>>
>>> You said recently:
>>>
>>> > Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 20:12:45 -0500
>>> > From: Charlie  Carroll <k1xx at cfl.rr.com>
>>> > Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] grabbing  terrain data for HFTA
>>> > To: Grant Saviers  <grants2 at pacbell.net>, towertalk at contesting.com
>>> > Message-ID: 
>>> > <wg1l6uo0lqvcmp2rougptbc7.1313543269277 at email.android.com>
>>> >  Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>>> >
>>> > Door's abt  to close, so have to be brief.  Of late, I have taken
>>> > to  semi-automatically extracting terrain data from Google Earth.
>>> > I  dump this info into an Excel spreadsheet for the number
>>> >  crunching.  Pretty painless to do something like ten foot
>>> >  intervals out to 10k feet.
>>> >
>>> > 73 charlie, k1xx
>>>
>>> N6BV: I'm not sure where Google Earth gets their terrain data, but I  am
>>> suspicious that it is derived at least partially from the SRTM  (Shuttle
>>> Radar Topography Mission) data set. I get nervous when I look  at the
>> terrain
>>> data for islands surrounded by seawater -- which  should, by definition,
>> be
>>> at or at least very close to sea level. It  is often shown as being
>>> considerably different from sealevel.
>>>
>>> N6BV: For example, in Google Earth zoom into Baileytown, Bimini, 
>>> Bahamas.
>>> Just to the west of Baileytown the altitude goes considerably  negative.
>>> Either this is a depthsounder reading (which I doubt) or  else something
>> is
>>> goofy!
>>>
>>> N6BV: I'm curious how you  are extracting that data from Google Earth
>>> semi-automatically, even if  I'm nervous about the data itself.
>>>
>>> >
>>> > Grant  Saviers <grants2 at pacbell.net> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > >Can  some one share a pointer for up to date instructions for 
>>> > >grabbing
>>> >  >the terrain data from the web for HFTA?  Every instruction I've 
>>> > found
>>  is
>>> > >hopelessly out of sync with the current terrain data web  site.
>>> > >
>>> >
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TowerTalk  mailing  list
>> TowerTalk at contesting.com
>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 6
>> Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 18:56:07 -0300
>> From: "Williams, Richard   (OAG/CPG)" <Richard.Williams at gnb.ca>
>> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] tower lights
>> To: Spencer <k5gak at powerc.net>, "towertalk at contesting.com"
>> <towertalk at contesting.com>
>> Message-ID: <33D89F00C2617444912B0ACB8729C9F2706729AE8D at GNBEX1.gnb.ca>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> I called the Canadian equivalent of the FAA once about whether I
>> would need lights on an 88 foot Trylon self-supporting tower. The
>> guy answered that if a plane was flying at 88 feet, whether my tower
>>  had a light or not wouldn't make much difference.
>>
>> Rick VE9HF
>> ________________________________________
>> From: towertalk-bounces at contesting.com
>> [towertalk-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Spencer
>> [k5gak at powerc.net]
>> Sent: Friday, August 19, 2011 5:08 PM
>> To: towertalk at contesting.com
>> Subject: [TowerTalk] tower lights
>>
>> there are dark sky rules here in New Mexico, and many other places. Be
>> aware!
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TowerTalk mailing list
>> TowerTalk at contesting.com
>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 7
>> Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 20:29:25 -0400
>> From: don daso <k4za at juno.com>
>> Subject: [TowerTalk] rotating towers, et al
>> To: towertalk at contesting.com
>> Message-ID: <20110819.172957.950.930663 at mailpop06.vgs.untd.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>
>> There's obviously some confusion rampant here...W9GE's tower installation
>> using K0XG hardware rotates, I believe K1TTT's tower uses the K0XG
>> orbital ring rotator, which is
>> a simple "apples & oranges" comparison.
>>
>> The GH controller can certainly ramp up rotators, such as Bob's Orion.
>> The XG orbital ring is simply turned on/off by the pwr supply relays, &
>> doesn't ramp up/down.
>> But, it would be helpful if it did, in fact, especially on the bigger
>> antennas, like OWAs...
>>
>> 73 Don K4ZA
>>
>> Tower Works
>> Charlotte  NC
>>
>> Antenna Towers for Radio Amateurs
>> published by ARRL
>>
>> www.k4za.com
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> Penny Stock Jumping 3000%
>> Sign up to the #1 voted penny stock newsletter for free today!
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>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 8
>> Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2011 08:13:41 -0400 (EDT)
>> From: TexasRF at aol.com
>> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Rotating tower
>> To: k6xt at arrl.net, n4zr at contesting.com
>> Cc: towertalk at contesting.com
>> Message-ID: <41e03.7f8d1193.3b80fef5 at aol.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>>
>> Art, re: 204BA: wonder if they can be reconfigured as a 4-el OWA design?
>> Love that bandwidth!
>>
>> On the 3-el 40 tip size: keep in mind that as the taper continues, the
>> element length has to increased due to the taper effect. The yagi design
>> programs will show this.
>>
>> 73,
>> Gerald K5GW
>>
>>
>>
>> In a message dated 8/19/2011 8:47:48 A.M. Central Standard Time,
>> k6xt at arrl.net writes:
>>
>> Pete
>> Someone else replied about K4JA's loss saying it was a  hurricane. Our
>> winds don't get up there or haven't yet.
>>
>> An elephant  gun to Asia would be good. I'm trying to avoid a mast and
>> associated  hardware in the tower. Another piece of R45 above the top
>> guys, at 75 lb,  seems as light as anything else I could put up there.
>>
>> The small 20  above the 40 gives me the opportunity for 3 phased 20's.
>> Someone suggested  a 204BA, I have some of those elements but would
>> probably make it a  3L.
>>
>> My 3L40 is an old DXE. From the factory it came with (what I  consider)
>> huge tips. Starts out at 2 inch, ends in telescoping tubing at  0.875in.
>> To me that is gross overkill at the tips. I replaced the outer 16  feet
>> with 204BA elements to cut the weight but more important the wind  load.
>> My neighbor K0YW has a duplicate of this ant. His element sag is
>> something like 3X mine. This ant is up on a hilltop 70 ft crankup
>> cranked down to about 50 ft for the past year with no probs so  far.
>>
>> Gotta wonder if K4JA's pair of 40's started twisting in opposite
>> directions. AB105 is stout stuff, I had some up 30 yrs ago in San Diego
>> area.
>>
>> 73 Art K6XT
>> Allison, Colorado
>> "One of the harshest  lessons learned from recent disasters, especially
>> Katrina, is that you are  your own first responder."
>> ...LtGen Russel Honore USA
>> GMCC CWOps  728
>> NAQCC 1342 SDDXC
>> ARRL TA
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2011-08-19 05:54,  Pete Smith wrote:
>>> You're right to be concerned about twisting  loads.  K4JA, who is a
>>> pretty good back-yard engineer, lost a  200-foot AB-105 rotating tower
>>> with 2 40m OWAs on it in a windstorm,  and from the debris it was
>>> obvious that it had twisted to  failure.  Afterward, he told me he sure
>>> wished he had a shear  pin or other provision for breaking the
>>> connection between his  rotator and the tower, because if it had been
>>> free to move it might  well have survived.
>>>
>>> By the way, if you plan to phase the two  3L 20m yagis, wouldn't you be
>>> better off putting the top one at 100  feet?  Or are you looking for an
>>> elephant gun to  Asia?
>>>
>>> 73, Pete N4ZR
>>>
>>> The World Contest Station  Database, updated daily at
>>> www.conteststations.com
>>> The  Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at
>>>  reversebeacon.blogspot.com,
>>> spots at telnet.reversebeacon.net, port  7000
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 8/18/2011 8:51 PM, Art K6XT  wrote:
>>>> I've started construction of a 150 ft Rohn 45 rotating  tower using 
>>>> K0XG
>>>> base and four rings, top ring at 140 ft. Just  above the top ring will 
>>>> be
>>>> a 3L40 and possibly a small 20 above  that, like 3L.
>>>>
>>>> I'd be very interested in any  experience or anecdotes on projects like
>>>> this using R45. That  tower was selected because I already own it. My
>>>> area has the  potential for icing. The ice I've seen is very light,
>>>> nothing like  back east or in EU. But I suppose its possible. Not too
>>>> windy, the  strongest seem to peak out around 70mph and that's  rare.
>>>>
>>>> One issue I see is, there are no torque bars on  the tower. All its
>>>> torque is transmitted to the rotator on the  ground. K0XG's rings do 
>>>> have
>>>> torque bars but that doesn't help the  tower.
>>>>
>>>> The general plot is to add antennas down the  tower above the guy 
>>>> rings.
>>>> Second 3L20, a shorty 40 Hygain, 10 and  15M.
>>>>
>>>> Replies to k6xt at arrl dot net are FB, or  here.
>>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TowerTalk  mailing  list
>> TowerTalk at contesting.com
>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 9
>> Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2011 14:16:34 +0000
>> From: "K1TTT" <K1TTT at ARRL.NET>
>> Subject: [TowerTalk] Rotors for sale
>> To: "reflector -tower" <towertalk at contesting.com>
>> Cc: Nobarc <nobarc at nobarc.org>
>> Message-ID: <EF30E8164B614FC7BE6F5B6352DC6E1E at k1tttibm>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>>
>> A relatively recent production TIC 1122 that has some mechanical damage.
>> There are some teeth broken in the big ring, and welds broken on the boom
>> cradle outriggers 
>> (http://www.k1ttt.net/images/2011_k0xg_ring_11_Small.jpg
>> picture while still on the tower).  More pictures can be provided if
>> interested.  Comes with 2 motors, boom truss assembly, and a TIC 
>> controller.
>>
>> A 25 year old TIC 1032 ring.  Rusty but otherwise was working except for 
>> a
>> bent shaft on the drive motor.  Comes with 1 motor, boom truss assembly, 
>> and
>> a TIC controller. 
>> (http://www.k1ttt.net/images/32in_tic_ring_1_Small.jpg)
>>
>>
>> $100ea, pickup in Peru, Ma.
>> I would hate to try to ship these, boxing and shipping would probably 
>> cost
>> more than I want for them... But if you were really sure you wanted them 
>> I
>> might.
>>
>> Will take them to the NoBARC(http://www.nobarc.org/) flea market next 
>> week
>> only if someone is really interested.
>>
>> David Robbins K1TTT
>> e-mail: mailto:k1ttt at arrl.net
>> web: http://wiki.k1ttt.net
>> AR-Cluster node: 145.69MHz or telnet://k1ttt.net
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TowerTalk mailing list
>> TowerTalk at contesting.com
>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>>
>>
>> End of TowerTalk Digest, Vol 104, Issue 36
>> ******************************************
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
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